From KcMets.com
NY Sports Dog:
Dave Singer
Here Singer discusses Manuel’s incredibly questionable move in the 8th inning. Wright walks with Reed following. Jerry elects to have Reed bunt with Wilson Valdez behind him. Reed bunts it back to the pitcher and kills the rally. Yes Valdez had done well but he is a career .213 hitter. To quote Singer “All of the statistical studies in the world tell you that you don’t bunt the man over after a lead-off walk….that the odds of him scoring decrease dramatically with one out, even if he makes it to second. Every man alive knows you don’t bunt a semi-productive hitter to get to Wilson Valdez. Everyone except Jerry “Goin’ with my Gut” Manuel, who falls in love with every scrap heap guy he finds.”
Amazin Avenue
Sam Page
Some Possible Trade Targets Pt. 3
Here Page continues a 3 part series on possible trade targets for the Mets. Names mentioned are Peavy, Sanchez, Bedard, Marquis, Washburn and Oswalt. Personally, I do not see the Mets adding a front-line guy. I could see at best Bedard but would be very happy with Marquis or Washburn to fill our #4/5 spot adding an innings eater that can also go to the pen in a perfect world situation.
NY Baseball Digest
Mike Silva
Eating Crow, Pittsburgh, A New Record
Silva discusses the Putz issue “the bottom line he needs to step up. It’s true that there were a couple of bleeders and an error that cost him. He doesn’t effectively execute anything but fastballs. That is a huge problem and, without an effective Putz, the Mets bullpen looks a lot more like 2007 and 2008. “ He also has a link to Putz’s words from last night. I agree completely on his comments about Putz. Putz needs to man up and tell the Mets what the problem is. He does not have the stuff he had before his injury and either something is hurting him, he does not want to be here, or he is just not good anymore. Pick one and let the Mets know Putz.
NY Post
Joel Sherman
Sherman goes after Niese here. The Mets had big plans for Niese this year and were even touting him over veterans like Livan and Redding. “But Niese is having a miserable year. He gave up six runs in 6 1-3 innings Monday night for Triple-A Buffalo. He fell to 0-5 with an 8.05 ERA. He has just one quality start in nine outings at Triple-A and in two starts with the Mets this season he had a 5.91 ERA.” Sherman also discusses the fact that Niese was a major trading chip for the Mets and that chip gets smaller with each setback.
NorthJersey.com
Mets notes: Redding on thin ice
NJ discusses Redding’s spot in the rotation: “But now that Redding has returned to the rotation, starting three games, the question has been raised again – how long can he hang onto his spot in the rotation? After a solid performance in his first game, he has allowed 13 runs and 16 hits in 8 2/3 innings over his past two starts. How many more can the Mets stand?” NJ also includes Manuel’s quotes on the situation. “It’s not going to be many, we have to look at it and evaluate it.” “What happens from a manager’s point of view, you always like to see something good somewhere so you have hope you’ll see it again,” Manuel said.
225 comments
jaded1983
6/2/2009-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
Re: Putz
I’m sure the workload put on him has had an effect, he (as everyone knows) has been a closer and is used to making only a few appearences a week, not on an almost daily basis like he is currently being used. I’m sure this has an effect on his velocity/command/etc as he is probably not rested like he normally is. Perhaps he doesnt know how to handle being used more frequently?
I dont buy the 8th inning mumbo-jumbo about not being able to “get up for it,” I personally think its his use in an unfamiliar role, coupled with him playing for his next contract out of the 8th inning, with Bobby-100mph-Parnell breathing down his neck.
Speaking of Parnell, I hope he can continue to throw strikes with life on his pitches and that (a) teams dont figure him out, and if they do can he make the necessary adjustments? (b) see him get hurt, he needs to keep working in those secondary pitches! (c) he just be gassed by the end of the season, although he has been a starter his whole minor league career so hopefully he has the endurance!
Parnell –> K-rod might be the bridge of the future, with (looking 4-5 years ahead) parnell potentially closing if all works out. Interesting stuff ahead, however I do like the Mets new mentality of getting top FA talent when needed and surrounding them with young homegrown guys.
LGM
darknova306
6/2/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
I don’t buy the ‘unfamiliar role’ argument. How is getting outs in a baseball game unfamiliar? He’s got a known bone spur issue in his arm, get the procedure before he hurts himself more by altering his mechanics to alleviate the pain.
jaded1983
6/2/2009-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
Sorry, let me clarify. I dont mean 8th vs. 9th inning “unfamiliar role,” i’m referring to the frequency of his use. There is a whole different method of preparation when you are used almost every day versus being used 3 times a week. I’m sure there are different things a pitcher has to do between appearances to keep himself fresh, perhaps he isnt doing those things well? Or not enough of them?
darknova306
6/2/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Ah, I misunderstood. I could see that being part of it.
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
i dont know why the mets touted niese like they did…nothing really special. I thought he was going to be trade bait and thats that. I do agree that the bunting by reed was stupid..guy had 2 hits at that point..gotta swing the bat. Probably wouldnt have mattered anyway but still, i dont mind a manager going with a gut move but as long as it makes sense. Thats where my beef with manuel comes in that his “gut” moves dont make any sense…
wannybackstra
6/2/2009-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
As Niese gets his ERA over 8, Jenrry Mejia gets his under 2 at HiA.
re: Jerry. I hate Jerry Manuel and I am not afraid to admit it. I didn’t catch the Reed sac bunt. But I agree that it is just silly to bunt a runner over for Wilson Valdez and Brian Schneider. I have noted several instances in which Jerry has bunted in non-bunting situations.
In the end, though, the manager is not to blame for Putz’s failure. And for as long as half the roster is injured, Omar will not be blaming the manager for his many tactical guffaws.
trs86
6/2/2009-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
Why not have Wright steal there to start with? Then a bunt might make more sense.
metsinnats
6/2/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
The problem I have with Manuel is not just the bunting, which saber guys would say is stupid unless it’s late+close+poor hitter and/or poor defense, but includes something really basic like the lineup. It may have been discussed in the other thread but why the heck is Murphy batting 3rd in this lineup? It should’ve been Wright/Sheff or Sheff/Wright in the order.
I agree with others who think that Murphy is a 2 or 7 in the lineup. He’s a nice player, but I don’t get the fascination. He’s gotten Gregg Jefferies type hype from some corners of our fans yet he doesn’t have the pedigree or skills of the petulant one. Murphy sorta reminds me of one of my childhood Mets idol – Dave Magadan.
As stated in the other thread, I like Niese. He strikes out almost 9/9innings, which is pretty nice for a starter. Looking over the box score it’s hard to see if he is being hit hard or unlucky, but his saber numbers suggest bad luck. Yesterday’s AAA game the box score suggested that a few plays by Mike Lamb at 2B (isn’t he a 1B/3B kinda guy?) could’ve saved some runs.
And TRS, thanks for the welcome on the other thread.
CaseStreet
6/2/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
Niese does have the knee buckling curve.
He was was born on 10/27/86:
World Series: The New York Mets defeat the Boston Red Sox in 7 games. This is the second world series title in the Mets franchise. It is also remembered for Game 6, when Bill Buckner lets an easy ground ball hit by Mookie Wilson roll through his legs, letting the Mets win and pull even with the Red Sox in the series.
Just for that reason he’s a keeper!
CaseStreet
6/2/2009-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
trs, nice job w/ this. It’d be cool for us to do one for the “experts” and one for the “bloggers”. However, that’s alot of work.
trs86
6/2/2009-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
I tried to get a little bit of both in the post. I thought it would be good to hear something besides just the normal talking heads. Hey, are we talking heads yet?
CaseStreet
6/2/2009-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
nah, Joel Sherman is a talking head. We’re “bloggers”.
rustyjr
6/2/2009-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
I thought we were bobbleheads LOL
CaseStreet
6/2/2009-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
hmm, maybe after the T-Shirts
btw, saw guys from the stache site selling D-Wright Stache shirts @ Sunday’s game
rustyjr
6/2/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
Do us staff writers get free shirts ? LOL we also have to have a get together
wannybackstra
6/2/2009-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
I’m confused in the post as to what opinions are being attributed to the other bloggers and which are TRS’s.
Either way, I agree with most of them but I feel that at this point, I’d rather the Mets trade for a real starting pitcher instead of another 4-5 type guy.
trs86
6/2/2009-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
I will fix this.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Tried to put their comments in “”. I try and make clear what they are saying and then my opinion if I have one.
wannybackstra
6/2/2009-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
Thanks, that makes it easier. I need to know if my beef is with you or with someone else!
wannybackstra
6/2/2009-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
By the way, lost in the loss last night was a pretty impressive display of plate patience and base stealing by Fernando Martinez, neither of which he was particularly known for in the minors.
He’s had some good at bats since he’s up here, fouling off pitches and making pitchers work.
I was most impressed by his coming from an 0-2 count to draw a walk and his stolen base attempt immediately following a backdoor pickoff play from the catcher. Both show confidence, ability and awareness.
CaseStreet
6/2/2009-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
good to hear
trs86
6/2/2009-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, I am fine with him batting 7th and getting the occasional day off for Tatis in RF. Maybe the day you rest Sheff you put Reed and Tatis in?
wannybackstra
6/2/2009-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
It’ll be interesting to see what happens when Church comes back.
Is Fernando here to stay? I guess we have the rest of this week for him to make a case.
My guess is that he will go back down regardless and if he continues to impress in AAA, Church will be shopped.
CaseStreet
6/2/2009-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
great minds think alike, Wanny
CaseStreet
6/2/2009-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
I wonder what’ll happen to F-Mart once Church comes back. Gotta figure Cora replaces Valdez and Reyes replaces R. Martinez.
rustyjr
6/2/2009-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
F-mart still needs seasoning
CaseStreet
6/2/2009-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
maybe some butt rub
F-Mart, the perfect compliment to rusty’s ribs!
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
Yikes!
Case, I have to say, JJ’s loss of effectiveness is a truly horrifying and tremendously disappointing development.
CaseStreet
6/2/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
yeah, but he does have a promising career as a circus clown
seriously, the Nasty Boyz are about to turn into a duo. Makes SPers going 7 and the offense giving the starters large leads, that much more important
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
Totally agree….It may be unfair, but Parnell might be one of the most essential keys to this season in some ways….we would REALLY be lost without him.
If Johan and Pelf can keep going 7 and Maine can keep improving, and if we actually play our best players in the field all at once someday, we may be able to survive the outrageous stretch of schedule which begins next week.
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
I really think that unless FMart regresses from what he has shown the last few days, he is going to stay.
And I think Niese is not very good.
And I HATE bunting in almost all spots. Doesn’t every stat show, regardless of who is up next, that you have an equal or even slightly better chance of scoring a man from first with no outs than a man from second with one out?
Ugh.
But despite all of this, Jerry is playing cards with a 40-something card deck here. He is nowhere near full strength, so of course every questionable move will be magnified.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
I don’t mind bunting in certain circumstances. Say Wright steals 2nd there and you have the bottom of the order up with lots of backup players. That gives you a chance to drive in a run without even getting a hit, which chances are they are not getting one.
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
True, no doubt.
I just truly hate giving up outs unless it is a sac fly. Hate it. I know bunting is of course useful on occasion, but everyone has their personal pet peeves, and giving up outs is definitely one of mine…
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
F-Mart is here to stay. I was convinced of this by his line drive barely into the gap in left center and stretching it for a double. He showed that to be no fluke when he drove one down the left field line for a double. For a 20-yr old, you gotta love his ability to drive the ball the other way. I think he is here to stay and rightfully so. He is not overmatched. Hasn’t been since he got his first hit. Butterflies are gone. He has been a different player since the first hit.
Church and Sheff should be splitting time. Tatis and Murph splitting 1st. Still not sold on Murphy.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
NO NO NO I don’t want Sheff splitting time with anyone. Sheff needs maybe 1-2 games off a week. That’s not enough for Fmart. Fmart needs to be plugged into RF and leave him alone. Tatis can give Sheff days off in LF or Reed. As for Church, I have no idea what to do with him. He does not cost much so I guess he could just be a backup.
Santos, Cora, Reed, Tatis, Church?
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
If you think Gary Sheffield can play everyday in left field without breaking down, of course he can play everyday. When I say “splitting time”, they shouldn’t be splitting it equally. I think Church can get in there 2-3 times/week. I just think Sheff will need breathers (day game after night game) to remain effective. He’s not on the cream or the clear anymore.
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Shef definitely may need a couple of days off, based on the way he was running last night, or not running. If we cannot trade Church, maybe he plays just 2 days a week for now, in the most favorable sports for him, and Shef plays against all lefties and tougher righties. That could also boost Church’s trade value, and I would love to dump him if FMart keeps it up.
FMart definitely needs to be in RF every day.
I think Reed and Tatis are bench players and are most valuable that way.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
I agree with the part about Reed and Tatis but at this point so is Church.
Maybe resting Sheff every day game and against a RH when everyone else is in the lineup?
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
I would like Shef to play as much as possible, but did you see the way he was running last night? I am just hoping I do not soon see a post about a strained hamstring or something…he did not look good running.
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
I agree….Shef seemed last night like he could not run at all, and if he is hurt, we are really in trouble. Platooning him may be a necessity if we want to have him available all year.
And FMart sure seems like he belongs. Especially after the way he has played the last couple of days after starting with a big 0-for and not running out that one play. Nice recovery.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
I would not platoon him however. Maybe just 1-3 days off a week. Platooning him makes no sense as he would only face LHP and we don’t see enough of those.
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Agreed; I meant a loose platoon. Let Shef play 5 days a week, and Church play 2, against lesser righties, and that is it. Maybe he can boost his production and generate trade value.
I agree that Shef needs to play as much as he can, and still stay healthy.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
I agree. At this point, might as well use Sheff as full time, which is completely different from the original plan when Omar first signed him.
Injury happened in a bad time for Church. The only way he gets regular playing time is if FMart struggles.
wannybackstra
6/2/2009-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
I agree with most of what every one is saying here: if FMart is here he plays all the time, Sheff plays most of the time and Church tries to steal at bats from both.
But let’s not forget that Sheff won’t be hot all season and has just come off tow pitiful seasons in a row. The wheels may not fall off completely, but they may not look so shiney and new come the dog days.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
And if FMart hits the cover off the ball this week, what do you think will happen? It’s a good thing to worry about, but who do you send down?
it’ll be similar situation as Santos and Castro..
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
I’m not sure I’d trade Church unless I could put him in a package for a quality arm.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Why? What is his purpose other than a trading chip? You mean at this point you expect him to give more than your boy Fmart or even Reed/Pagan/Tatis?
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
I’d much rather see Church out there instead of Reed when Sheff needs a break. I think Reed should be the odd man out when the dynamic duo of Angel Pagan Church comes back.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
I actually disagree. Reed has been great in HIS role this year, hitting near .300 and came up with some big hits. I know Church is a better player but is he a better bench player?
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Church was a platoon player in Washington. Wasn’t an everyday player until he came here. We can move him back to that role.
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
And TRS—Really fine post, and I love the 1963 Met program!
trs86
6/2/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
I really think Church needs to be traded. Problem is what can you get for an injured player? My thought was a package of Niese/Gee and Church for a guy like DeRossa?
prismo
6/2/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
I’d rather not trade away our pitching prospects for a player we don’t really need. Reyes should be back soon, and then what does DeRosa do? Play outfield? Is he *really* that much better than Shef or Tatis (not to mention FMart). If he is better, is it enough of a difference worth trading away Church and a mid-upper level pitching prospect? I really don’t think so.
If anything, I’d rather wait until Church is healthy and trade him for a prospect or two.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
You know we won’t trade Church for a prospect. Like I said above I guess Church can rot on the bench and get starts against RH for Sheff or give Beltran a day off. But that is what Reed is for.
DeRossa can play all IF and the corner OF positions very much like Tatis and gives us insurance on Murphy, Castillo and the OF’s.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Not as high on Derosa as most others. I wouldn’t package that much for him.
prismo
6/2/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, but you’re saying you want to trade a mid-upper level pitching prospect and Church for a bench player basically, and an insurance plan. In no way do I think that’s worth it.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
I guess you could do something lower than Niese/Gee if that’s possible. Maybe a Kunz who has no value. Cleveland needs a CF and Church could fit that part.
QnsNative718
6/2/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
Great post, trs. Nice digging.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
Sportsypder is great.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Guys I am going to lose all credibility on this one.
When Perez returns he should be put in the pen. Give him the Heilman treatment. Mop up duty to start with and then as his confidence increases allow him to move up the ladder.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Or hope he joins George Martin on his walk across America. Perfect marketing opportunity.
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Why a credibility loss? Sounds logical to me….As he has always been a starter, Ollie is no lefty specialist, and with the way JJ and Green have pitched, maybe Ollie can be very useful in the 6th or 7th for a while.
But, if Redding gets shelled again and again, we may need Ollie in the rotation soon, as personally, I think Niese is at least not ready and maybe not good, and I am not a Figgy fan. He is no long-term answer.
And while I would love it, based on what we did in the offseason, unless we start a serious downturn, I doubt we are going to spend enough to bring aboard a real good starter, and I doubt we are trading FMart, or maybe even Murph.
TRADE FOR ROY! (Either one!)
metsgirl31
6/2/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
I agree…Ollie in the bullpen is a good idea. But it all depends on Redding at this point. He can’t stay in the rotation if he is this bad. Rather take my changes with good/bad Ollie as a starter then.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Kingman you know we are not getting either Roy. Mets are not going to spend the money or the chips for another starter with Ollie on the hook.
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I know. But the idea of the Seaver/Koos, Koufax/Drysdale, Schilling/Randy J top two just really is so damn tantalizing.
But I know that it ain’t happening unless Fred or Jeff wins the lottery…..
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
I just hope Toronto keeps on losing. Oswalt isn’t the guy to get. With his frame the way it is, he is scheduled to break down right about now. Not to mention, he threw at the big red dog, Uncle Cliffy, every chance he got. Let’s hope JP Riccardi decides he can’t trade Halladay in the AL or to the Phils.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
TA10, Please think. We are not getting Oswalt, Peavy or Doc. It’s just not going to happen they cost a lot of money and prospects.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
We didn’t put the best package together for Santana either. It just happened the other teams in contention for him were in the American League. It’s pretty safe to say Toronto won’t trade Halladay in the AL.
I don’t want Oswalt or Peavy. Phillies can have both of them.
Delgado, Wagner, and $25MM are coming off the books this year, so $ shouldn’t be an issue.
There. I’m thinking.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
True about Wagner and Delgado. But you have to know the Santana situation was much different. The trading team had to pony up an incredible contract.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
I’m not under any illusions that we are getting Halladay. I’m actually happy with the way Maine and Pelf have settled into the #2 and #3 spots in the rotation. Just wish we could get something out of Ollie. It’s not likely to happen this year. I think we are more likely to trade for a back of the rotation kind of guy like Marquis.
CaseStreet
6/2/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
that’d be an idea but you prob have to keep it simple and to a routine w/ Ollie. Don’t know if going to the pen will mess him up more.
CaseStreet
6/2/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
didn’t D-train have a good outing recently? if so, there’s still hope for us.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Good is a relative term. 4.1IP, 7H, 7R is good relative to Tim Redding’s last start.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
At this point how?
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
But there’s no way Mets front office would allow a 12 mil mop-up guy…. I think Ollie will be given couple more chances to start and if it doesn’t work out, ummm….. we are screwed…
trs86
6/2/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
He will eventually but I am saying for the time being.
wannybackstra
6/2/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
It won’t happen… but maybe it should.
No credbility loss in my eyes.
metsfan4decades
6/2/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Perez in the pen scares me. Mop up duty, blow out either way, is the only way I can see him with any effectiveness coming out of the pen. In a big spot? I don’t think so.
I wanted the Ollie signing all along but I’m ‘man’ enough to admit I think I made a mistake. I really did not see him this bad, this year. We need a real 5th starter and if he would get his head on straight, we woudn’t have to worry about Redding. Redding is someone I wouldn’t mind going to the bullpen….
CaseStreet
6/2/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
this site is killing my work productivity, I’ve got work piling up. See you boyz later.
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
LOL! Same here!
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
But when you leave here for work, you’re going to have messages that you need to respond to piling up. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
lmao..me too! I have to fight myself to NOT come here and do my job lolll
trs86
6/2/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Guys seriously we need to trade Church. Kingman is right we will have to build his trade value but I just don’t see what he brings. Reed is not as talented as Church but he also is a guy that can succeed coming off the bench and I am not sure Church can.
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
bottom line church is being underutilized by manuel…he would do better on many other teams. If we can package him, we would just have reed or pagan to come off the bench
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
But who are we going after? Another SP probably.
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
i doubt it imo…..
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
You think it’ll be a power bat that’s on top of Omar’s list?
I still think it’ll have to be pitching. Current rotation is pitching great with exception of Redding, but I think with Citi Field, we need to add more pitching help.
Plus, with a power bat, where do we put him unless we trade Murphy?
trs86
6/2/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Agree on the bat part. It’s even less likely. We are not going to trade for an OF with power and there are no 1B with power on the market.
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
I think this all hinges on delgado. If he is not going to be back this year, Omar will try to find power for one of the OF corners so gary does not have to play everyday. There is a log jam with pitching right now and i just dont see omar doing anything about it. I mean we are really only down one pitcher…and i doubt omar is ready to admit signing ollie was a mistake. Imo we have a 1/2/3/5 that are fine…we just need a #4 and like i said…realistically that spot is ollies.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
I understand what you are saying Dirty and we have debated this before. But right now Ollie is shutdown and Redding may be next. I really think the Mets are looking for a guy that can be a starter/reliever. In my opinion Washburn or Marquis are perfect fits.
trs86
6/2/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
I still think we will trade for another #5 type that can go to the pen.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
I think that’s the most likely scenario, but I’d rather see them getting a #2 behind Santana.
I know you it’ll take a lot more than Church and prospects, but given our strong bullpen and solid rest of rotation, adding another ace type will definitely give us a big advantage.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
I think that will be settled this offseason when we know what we have with Murphy and Fmart.
As for now get me a Marquis or Washburn. Guys that can hold down the #5 spot and in a perfect world if Ollie returns they can pitch from the pen. Those guys can’t be that expensive. Church for either of those guys would suit me just fine.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
Well, that guy can be Redding though. Granted he has struggled, but I think we’ll probably get similar outcome from Marquis or Washburn…
trs86
6/2/2009-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Right now we can’t say that we could get Marquis/Washburn type numbers out of Redding. Something maybe seriously wrong with Redding.
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
whats the point in having a #2 behind santana if you still have issues at the back end..you just swaped one problem for another. Right now pelf/maine are getting the job done. Livan is doing what a #5 is doing. #4 is the only real issue here and i doubt omar is going to move ollie so realistically you are going to have to give up either pelf/maine for a #2 and you just lost out on a good pitcher that young and under control for many years…and you really didnt fix anything.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
That’s why I don’t think we will trade for a #2 this year. Only a bottom of the rotation guy.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
True, but if you have 2 aces and Pelf/Maine in a playoff series at Citi field, it’s a huge advantage. Especially with Parnell and KRod in the pen.
I think at this point Ollie may be a sunk cost… hopefully not…
gipperpdx
6/2/2009-4:05pm at 4:05 pm (UTC -4)
Dirty-but getting a two solves the back end also, as then Livan slots into where he belongs as a good number 5. Pelf and Maine slot down one each to 3 and 4. Now THAT is a rotation.
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-4:08pm at 4:08 pm (UTC -4)
but you still have to deal with ollie when he comes back..what happens with that. Omar cant move him and i doubt he spent 12mil on a reliever..
dentulous
6/2/2009-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
yup. It will have to be another SP. I am sure they will give ollie another shot before they make the decision. If he can get it figured out while down there, we have a solid 1-5.
Damn you ollie…
stickguy
6/2/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
getting marquis + his salary for a “C” level prospect would be perfect right about now. Not even a big problem is somehow Ollie comes back.
Remember, if they can get a SP now, there is plenty of time to trade one away at the deadline if they really end up with too many to keep.
stickguy
6/2/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
I think F Mart does go down when Church comes back, but if they both stay productive, quite possible Curch gets shopped.
But, just as likely (or more so) IMO is that Sheffield breaks down from playing everyday. If he already has some hammy tiredness, look out. I know for a fact (sadly) that 40YO+ bodies don’t hold up that well to lots of abuse (like gettin gout of bed every day, mowing the lawn, etc.) Or playing LF.
So at minimum, they will need someone to play 3 days or so a week for Sheff. More if he just breaks down entirely.
If nothing else, F Mart can come back up when Sheff needs a little Pedro vacation, and takes 15 on the DL to rest up for the stretch drive.
THe MEts will have some more AL games coming up too, so he will at least get to DL (assuming they have another healthy OF to play!)
Ollie? Who knows there how long it wil ltake his knee to heal, but I am starting to wonder if we will ever see him. Probably yes, maybe in another month or so, and he is your liely mid-rotation SP pick up for this year.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
I know I’m late to the party on this one but the idea of Ollie Perez in the bullpen scares the hell out of me. At least if he starts a game and walks 5 guys and allows some runs, the Mets have 4 or more innings to come back from that hole. If he strolls out of the bullpen in the 6th inning and does that, now you have less opportunity to come back. And I just can’t envision a scenario in which he would be brought in with runners already on base, so his usage would be limited to starting off innings. Let’s get the knee better first before assigning him a role.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
That is why I said mop up to start with Grave.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
But how does that help him, pitching maybe once every 2 weeks? When he’s healthy, IMO he’s in the rotation.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Just depends on what is going on with the #5 spot at the time Grave.
metsfan4decades
6/2/2009-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Ha – I’m late too. Said more or less the same above on one of TRS’s posts.
Best case scenario is Ollie gets his head back on and gets up here to take that 4th or 5th starter role. He’s got starter mentality. He’s the missing piece of the puzzle and is seriously mucking up the works here. I’m just scared he’s not even going to get back to what he was, which was inconsistent to start with.
Someone should send Ollie Darling’s new book. I just finished it. It’s all about a game plan, Ollie. For every game, for every batter, for every pitch. Something I don’t think Ollie gets….
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
DND and Real im continuing this discussion down here so it can be alot clearer
My point is this. You guys say the mets are going after #2 talent. We already have santana#1 Pelf #2 Maine #3 that are decent. Pelf and Maine are young and cheap and under control for a few more years. Livan has done his job in the #5 slot so thats squared away. The only issue is #4. #4 should be going to ollie as we are paying him 12mil to do so. I dont think omar is ready to call it quits on him yet(even though we are). To aquire a #2 we are going to have to give up a pitcher to make space…since most likely the only poeple with trade value are pelf and maine, its going to be one of them. The #2 you guys are asking for will do more or less what those guys will give you already but now that #2 will be more expensive and older. So waht did you solve when the #4 issue is still there. I dont see omar persuing pitching im sorry. #4 has ollie written all over it. Unless a major injury happens to someone(knock on wood), i dont see omar persuing pitching.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
No I am saying they will NOT go after a #2.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
I think trs was arguing for a #5 type pitcher. AND I think that’s the most likely scenario.
BUT, my argument is, Yes, we’ll give up either Maine or Pelf. But with a legit ace behind Santana, we’ll have a huge advantage when it comes to a playoff series. Not to mention that it’ll block the Phillies from adding a solid pitcher.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
But only Holliday is a legit ace. Oswalt has tons of question marks and may not be any better for us than Pelfrey or Maine in the long run.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
I disagree. Oswalt and Holliday are same age(?) and he still has good stuff in him. Oswalt’s contract has 2 more years (I think) and it’s pretty reasonable. From what I’ve heard, Oswalt still throws in mid-90s and should be effective next 2 years.
I just think a change of scenery will really help, especially in a competitive team like the Mets.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
But if you trade Maine for him what have you gained but 1-2 wins and a lot of salary.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
I think Oswalt can win more than 1-2 games over Maine..
But then I’m not specifically saying Oswalt. Maybe Bedard or Wang. Or even Haren.
stickguy
6/2/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Can’t plan the team for a playoff series, when yo uhave to get there first!
Halladay isn’t coming. Peavy is a long shot (and scares me about him not being a bust).
So how about Oswalt? 32 YO, declining “stuff”, huge contract. And, IMO, not likely to be better than Maine or Plefrey for the rest of the year.
Better than Redding? Of course. But if you trade Maine + F Mart say for him, the SP will be roughly the same, just more expensive and you lose your best prospect.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
AGreed. I am changing my name to Stickguyjr.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
I like Maine, but he doesn’t come close to Oswalt in terms of production. Oswalt still throw in mid-90s. He has 2 more years in his contract which is very reasonable @ 15-16 mil for next 2 years.
Just think about it in 7 game playoff series (granted that we get to post season).
Santana
Oswalt
Pelf
Parnell
Putz(hmmmm)
KRod
in Citi Field? Forget it man…
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
you need a rotation to win dnd..not just 3 people. You still have a black hole at #4….
trs86
6/2/2009-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Agreed that it helps us this year in the playoffs but longterm I am not so sure. At most Oswalt gives you 2-3 more wins over the course of a season but cost 13 million more.
dentulous
6/2/2009-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
nicely said. Oswalt is not worth it, with Maine and Pelf pitching better than him. I also think F-MArt will be a starting corner OF next season, so no way they move him.
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
agreed stick. I dont know why people are entertaining halladay anymore…peavy as well(i think he made it clear where he wants to play)
trs86
6/2/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
I think you are still missing the point Dirty that Ollie is shutdown. We have no idea when or if he will be back. Redding is already on thin ice. Thus bringing in another guy who can be the #5 (with Livan as the #5) and IF Ollie gets his head can pitch in the Takawhatever role is something they are considering based on reports.
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
yes but ollie wont be shut down forever and thats my point. I dont want the mets to rush into anything only to be presented with a situation where our pitchers will have to pass through waivers to go back down and we lose them but still have to pay the bill.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Who has to pass through waivers Dirty?
Takawhatever has options. Redding? No one is claiming him if we send him down.
Ollie yes but again, that’s thinking in a perfect world. If Ollie comes back up and Washburn/Marquis go to the pen.
Krod, Parnell, Putz, Felicano, Green, Stokes, Washburn/Marquis if Ollie comes back.
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
taka is the only one that has options…i dont think green does
nobody is goign to take redding. The only person i coudl think is niese and someone else. So now you have to make room on the 25 man roster so you option taka to the minors…what happens when ollie comes back? someone has to pass through waivers…ANOTHER bullpen guy..do we really want that? a bullpen of starters?
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
I read the other day somewhere that Green DOES have options, I’ll try to find a link to something.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Dirty, lets think this through.
Right now the you have Johan, Pelfrey, Maine, Livan, Redding, Krod, Parnell, Putz, Feliciano, Green, Stokes, Takawhatever.
Lets say at this point you trade for Marquis, assuming that none of the BP guys go (which is a posibility) you send down Takawhatever (who has options). Marquis goes in the rotation and Redding to the pen. Now when Ollie comes back, if and when, you send whoever is struggling down. If it’s Redding, no one will pick him up so he will clear, if they do then great. If it’s Green then we may lose him but what did we lose? That is also assuming that by that time, when Ollie comes back that Putz is not on the DL and Livan has not had a melt down.
mrose
6/2/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
dirty and trs…check yuour emails when you get a chance
trs86
6/2/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Uh Oh Dirty, we have been called out for tying up the blog.
mrose
6/2/2009-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
hahahaha
i can’t even reply to your comment below me..i guess this is 10 levels?
come on now, no one is yellin here about tying up the blog
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
well i still think even with a livan meltdown he will still be in his #5 role. My thing is so this guy we traded for will be out of the bullpen, as well as redding? I dont know…i dont like this idea. If they can move redding(which i doubt) then go for it but then what happens if wagner comes back?
trs86
6/2/2009-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
you are dealing with too many what if’s Dirty.
Redding can be sent down or traded. If he is sent down and some one for some reason claims him what have we lost? For Wagner, again, assuming everyone is back the rosters would be expanded by then anyway.
stickguy
6/2/2009-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
Dirty, the rotation has done exactly what Omar planned for it to do, with one exception. Ollie.
Santana, Maine and Pelf were the top 3 (“core”) guys, and should be locked in (health willing) for years to come.
Livan was his big reclaimation project, which seems to have worked out for the #5. And Redding is the fill in/swing/long man guy.
If Ollie hadn’t come up lame (and it is looking like the knee just might be the main culprit, although the WBC may not have helped, or it aggrevated the knee issue), he would be the #4 guy.
SO, for now, I expect Omar rides it out, at least until he knows if/when Ollies knee might be good to go. If it is expected to be 2-4 weeks, he’ll just ride it out with what he’s got.
Redding though could force the issue (since Neise is not looking viable). So, I like the idea of grabbing a Marquis type to fill in.
WOrst case, everyone gets healthy and you have too many SPs/long men, so you trade one away. Or stash one someplace.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
Agree completely Stick. Nothing says that Marquis or Washburn could not pitch out of the pen or that we could not trade one of them later.
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
why would anyone want to trade with us when they know we have an abundance of pitchers and they can just pick them up on the waiver wire (because we have to dfa them) for nothing and we get stuck with the bill….
dirtysanchez
6/2/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
or option 3..dfa someone because of that log jam and they get picked up but we pay the bill…so we lose that pitcher and money…
trs86
6/2/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
See above, we don’t have to DFA anyone.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
Jason Marquis 7-3 3.93
Jarrod Washburn: 3-4, 3.22
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Is Marquis’ 2009 a fluke, or has he at age 30 figured out how to pitch? Best WHIP ever in his career so far, and 2nd best ERA of his career as primarily a starting pitcher so far. I wish I knew.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
In between Grave. He is a low to mid 4.00 ERA pitcher, those stats are not too far from that.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Also by most (but to be fair, not all) statistical measures, when broken down by month, Marquis’ two worst months are August and September. Probably not a good mix for this Met team.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
Yeah I saw those last year. However, Grave by then hopefully Ollie has it figured out.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
That’s fair, but IMO he’s not going to figure much out being used once every 2 weeks in long relief.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
LOL, touche.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
This link goes to his monthly career splits
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=marquja01&year=Career&t=p#month
udontmesswthejohan
6/2/2009-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
Staten Island in the House!!
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Shaolin Shadow Boxin’
Joe R
6/2/2009-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
What part Im in Rossville.
udontmesswthejohan
6/2/2009-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Tottenville – nice hour and half commute to downtown Manhattan.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
In Colorado nonetheless.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Those of you able to listen to the FAN Eddie C is on right now.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Is he saying Putz, Beltran, and Wright are going on the DL?
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
He says that Ollie could be another month before coming back
trs86
6/2/2009-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
I would say best case. He has to be healthy and pitching well. Right now he is even shut down.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
My bottom line, if my choices are Washburn or Marquis, I’d choose Washburn, without knowing what the difference in compensation for them might be.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, I like Marquis too but Washburn would be perfect as he is LH and could take the Takawhatever role if Ollie comes back.
mrose
6/2/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
taka..taka…. .not gonna work here anymore! (sorry…sorta an officespace reference)
dentulous
6/2/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
If washburn comes and pitches the way he has, wouldnt they bump Livan to the pen? That is if Ollie is back and effective.
trs86
6/2/2009-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, possible depending on who is pitching well at the time.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
I like Marquis. He can hit.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
Eddie C just said that the latest tentative projection for Jose Reyes’ return is Friday night at Washington, and that Ollie Perez will be gone AT LEAST another month.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
beat me to it…
dentulous
6/2/2009-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
is he pitching still, or shut down until the injury heals?
trs86
6/2/2009-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
shutdown
trs86
6/2/2009-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
We heard the Reyes report yesterday that Friday was almost certain.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Not me. I guess I was too enraged about “Lineupgate” to notice.
fongy2
6/2/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Jeez, that Ollie contract is really
looking like another great Omar
investment! Every year so far,
same story. One or two horrible
contracts which end up on the DL
and prevent Omar from spending
significantly on a replacement.
So,despite always having the highest payroll in the NL,we end up a swiss-
cheese team.Full of holes!
dentulous
6/2/2009-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
while true, i dont think anyone would have expected him to be this bad, and now shut down. Sure Lowe seems great now, but the man is old and we dont know how he will pitch down the road.At least with ollie, he has more upside. younger, and shorter contract.
It does suck it turned out this way.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
Dentyne Ice
dentulous
6/2/2009-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
anything with xylitol is good for the teeth!
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Can you prescribe something for Putz’s fastball?
dentulous
6/2/2009-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
well ’10, it is obvious his pitching troubles are due to Trimethylaminuria (fish malodor syndrome), and I know this because he reeks the 8th inning.Im on it!
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
I think he should ditch the flavor saver.
fongy2
6/2/2009-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
Younger yes,shorter
contract yes,by a year
O.K.,BUT better upside?
Thing is Lowe is a horse and THAT was what
was needed NOT a question mark which is
what Ollie is and always will be.
Also,doesn’t THIS team
give these guys physicals BEFORE they
sign or re-sign?
I think not! Otherwise,
how could the likes of
Alou,El Duque or Castillo ever have passed one?
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
El Duque developed a bunion on his foot by appearing on Dancing With The Stars. We couldn’t have foreseen that.
fongy2
6/2/2009-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
Pls no Dancing with the
so-called stars refs,
my girl tortures
me enough
with that show.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
They should call it, “Dancing With The Future Cast of The Surreal Life”. Bunch of has beens and a few never will-bes
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
IMO the Mets were not going to give Lowe 4/60, so once he got it, it was over with him. I have no inside information, but I don’t believe the 3/32 offer the Mets made to Lowe was a final offer, it was an opening salvo that got blown out of the water by the (more) desperate Braves.
trs86
6/2/2009-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
AGREED.
fongy2
6/2/2009-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
Understood my friend and I’m not now ripping
Omar JUST for
what happened with Lowe.
The thing is many of us like
to praise Omar
for “being patient” BUT
we discussed this at the time.He took so
long after fixing up the
Pen(and didnt Putz have to take a physical?)
THAT once the Braves offered
4yrs to Lowe-Omar had painted
himself into a corner and had
almost no option but to turn back to
Ollie. And THAT
is good GMing?
Also,Redding??
Bad MLB Pitcher
who the Nats wouldn’t even offer a contract despite having
the worst Pitching in the game the last few yrs..
Again,coming off a toe injury,no physical?
fongy2
6/2/2009-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
I mean,
Omars being paid millions.Part of his job is to plan.
He and Cashman
do seem alot alike.
Overpay
broken down FAs
then when that doesn’t work say
we’re going w/the kids.When half of them
turn out to be busts
go back to over paying questionable FAs.
New stadium
requiring Pitching
and D then hand the
LF job to a kid
who can’t catch or throw.
trs86
6/2/2009-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
But besides Lowe who was gone that would have been an option?
dentulous
6/2/2009-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
was Wolf still available? He is doing nicely, though he may come back to career levels.
trs86
6/2/2009-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I THINK Wolf and Garland were both still available. My point was that Fongy had said Omar had painted himself into a corner by not signing anyone quickly.
fongy2
6/2/2009-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
I just stated
and you know
after fixing the
Pen
Omar spent two months signing AAAA OFers
while playing Boras’
negotiation games which only HE(Boras)
ever wins.
trs86
6/2/2009-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
That’s my point Fongy, after Lowe was signed had nothing to do with being painted into a corner. If he signed Lowe he signed him. If not then he could choose to sign Perez or a entire group of pitchers that were right below him and cheaper or make a trade.
That is where he messed up, he was not painted into any corner. He just made the wrong decision. The good decision was not to sign Ollie or Lowe. The good decision would have been to sign a couple of other guys or make a trade.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps it’s a semantics issue. I don’t think I’ve ever claimed that I heart Omar, or even that he is a “good GM.” I believe I’ve been fairly consistent in my stance that he is an average, middle-of-the-pack GM.
Some good moves, some bad. Some good non-moves, some bad. I place him somewhere in the “middle 10″ of the 30 GMs.
What I also don’t think is that he sucks, or is the worst, or one of the worst, GMs.
Would I like someone more like, I don’t know, John Schuerholtz or Theo Epstein? Sure, but I don’t see either of them coming here and I have no idea how to identify who of the “up and coming” GM crop might be like them.
Omar 5 years, Mets 5 winning seasons, in realistic post season contention for 4 of them. I can quibble sure, but I just can’t COMPLAIN!
trs86
6/2/2009-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, I would like to see more foresight by Omar but other than that he has done a very good job.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
Is Ollie really injured?
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
I think Pelfrey should give his doc Ollie’s cell # and get a referral credit for it.
trs86
6/2/2009-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
I really think so.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
Hard to really know, but I believe he is. The WBC is a nice scapegoat for it that’s for sure.
trs86
6/2/2009-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
Have you seen the stats on those WBC pitchers? I was going to make a post about that a while ago but it has slipped my mind. They are on average terrible.
fongy2
6/2/2009-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
I preached to you all about
the WBC all
spring(although I
loved the gms)
How is that tourny helpful
to the NY Mets
in any way???
Wheres the benefit to us?
Maybe it DIDN’T
hurt BUT I certainly didn’t
HELP us!
trs86
6/2/2009-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
AGreed, move the damn thing to November.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
I agree now (and agreed then) with you. Hated it for my team. I actually kind of hated the games before they happened, but then I watched some and some of them were quite good, and that changed my mind on the games. But the timing, terrible, and I see no good time for it ever. There is always some issue, no matter where it’s slotted on the calendar.
trs86
6/2/2009-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
What’s wrong with November Grave? Lots of players pitch in Fall Ball and Winter league.
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
Because many players would have just finished a long season, and those out of the playoffs would have been home for weeks already, and I would guess many prominent guys would not go.
This is why the NFL has the Pro Bowl, which is after the season, in Hawaii, to get guys to want to attend.
I think that the only way this works is with a break during the regular season, which is pretty logistically difficult.
trs86
6/2/2009-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
I still think November is best. If players don’t want to go then tough crap for the WBC. This is just a money making scheme anyway.
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
Hard to argue with that TRS….
trs86
6/2/2009-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
Especially considering there is no reply button.
Kingman 26
6/2/2009-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!!
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
On some level there’s just something wrong with any time of year. November, the players are worn out, especially those who appeared in the post season, and those who didn’t have “shut it down” in some respects, to quickly ramp it back up is questionable.
Mid season, like Hockey and the Olympics, is also problematic. Who wants to lose their ace pitcher for the season because he injured something pitching in the WBC? Hell, the All-Star game is scary, but at least it’s just one game.
I just think there will be some risk/problem no matter when. How the powers that be go about minimizing that risk should prove quite interesting.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/2/2009-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
I think none of us want to see Johan pitch in November after 250+ IP with WS. Same goes with Wilpons and Omar.
Lots of players play in Winter league, but I doubt major stars like Johan will do that.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
I never want to see the Wilpons or Omar pitch. November, September, July, May. Don’t care what month!
trs86
6/2/2009-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Do we want to see him pitching before he goes 250 innings?
metsfan4decades
6/2/2009-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
I would have to say yes. Otherwise, what is the point in shutting him down? If it was all still mechanics and his head, they would continue working on that now. He’s got a problem with his knee that apparently has to get healthy to have any realistic shot at him coming back mechanics wise, to at least where he was.
trs86
6/2/2009-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed
fongy2
6/2/2009-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
Thats fine don’t complain about Omar,
I do enough of that for a few of us.
Given the money spent though by him
its hard for this long time fan to
understand why a Wilson Valdez is starting ANY games at Short or why
a Tim Redding is ever on the mound
for my Mets.Shades of 3o yrs ago.
trs86
6/2/2009-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Fong the Valdez point is not fair. Who would think that Reyes AND Cora would get injured? Redding would not have been pitching either if not for Ollie. Who has better 3rd string SS and #6/7 SP?
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
Agree. Can’t complain about who is playing in relation to the payroll, when we are about 5 deep at middle infielder right now and 6 deep in the outfield. Not to mention, 6 deep in the rotation.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with you in the context of allocation of resources. Could he do better at that? Absolutely! But I find it hard to gripe specifically about Wilson Valdez when Valdez wasn’t even the 4th option starting the season, he wasn’t even here. The thing with the Mets recently is that their injuries tend to pile on. And even having an awareness of that, I don’t know how any GM could stockpile real talent so deeply at any one position.
Reyes has had multiple consecutive healthy full seasons, it was reasonable IMO to expect him to start say 156 games. Castillo on the other hand is aging and has questionable knees, so if I found myself as the GM in that situation I might make the same move Omar did: sign Alex Cora, an IMO perfect option to be a back up MIF at the ML level. Then you have in the minors a combination of what are hopefully prospects and what are AAAA players, just in case. Hence the young minor league SS whose name I forget, and who unfortunately bombed in AAA and was sent to AA, and Ramon Martinez.
Those to me are perfectly acceptable and reasonable back up plans for a MI of Jose Reyes and Luis Castillo. Unfortunately Reyes knee/calf threw a wrench into the plan. But who was Omar supposed to have on the farm just in case? Garry Templeton?
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
I think Alex Cora’s injury/comeback are more important than Reyes coming off the DL quickly. Cora can fill in at a much more respectable rate for Reyes, than Martinez/Valdez can for Cora.
trs86
6/2/2009-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Assuming the injury does not affect his defensive ability.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Yes. While I am very encouraged by Cora’s quick comeback, I’m concerned to hear on the radio that he will be wearing a “splint-like” device on his finger.
trs86
6/2/2009-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
AGREE
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
It’ll be fine. Bryan Cox once played Middle Linebacker with a cast on his arm.
trs86
6/2/2009-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah and Ronnie Lott had his finger cut off but this ain’t football.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
Jim Abbott pitched with one hand. That was baseball.
He’ll be fine.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Which reminds me. What started me on my “Lineupgate” rant yesterday was turning on the radio in time to hear Carton say “why did Wright need a day off, he was just off Thursday” and Boomer chimed in “I never missed a game.”
Boomer, you played one day a week for 20 weeks a year plus your rare post season games. Wright plays 6 to 7 days a week for 26 regular season weeks, plus pre and hopefully post season. Disappointed in you Boomer.
There's Always '10
6/2/2009-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not a Boomer’s career historian, but did he mean he never missed a game due to injury? If so, that is pretty impressive as an NFL QB before the days of pampering the QBs.
GravediggerHebner
6/2/2009-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
Not sure. I just checked his career stats and not every season shows “16 games played” or “16 games started,” so at best he was exaggerating.
fongy2
6/2/2009-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
I advocated Garland all winter
and Wolf looks great BUT i dont wanna
be a phoney re him b/c I just didn’t
trust his past inj history.
Anyway,whats done is done.I just think
everyone should lower their hopes of
anything major happening the rest of the way,trade wise. I’d love to go back and forth with you fellassome more on this but I’ve gotta get back to work.Much respect to you guys,
great job again on this site including
the graphics and I see ya later.
Lets Go Mets!
trs86
6/2/2009-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks Fong, later.