“Don’t cut my throat, I may want to do that later myself.” Casey Stengel
Here’s what you missed on Saturday, June 13, 2009:
- This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty 6/13/09 by rustyjr
- Morning Open Thread by CaseStreet
- Time to take a trip to the dump? by trs86
- Gameday Weather 6/13/09 by prismo
- Sending Out An SOS by GravediggerHebner
- Game Thread: Mets (31-28) vs Yankees (35-26) by dirtysanchez
- ServPro Post Game: New York Mets 6, New York Yankees 2 by GravediggerHebner
- Congratulations Fongy and Case! by GravediggerHebner
Here’s what you missed on Sunday, June 14, 2009:
- This Day In Mets Infamy with Rusty 6/14/09 by rustyjr
- Sheffield to have MRI by prismo
- Man Up Awards For Saturday Night by dirtysanchez
- Gameday Weather 6/14/09 by prismo
- Sunday Opinion: The State of the Mets by Kingman 26
- Game Thread: Mets (32-28) vs Yankees (35-27) by dirtysanchez
- Coping Skills Post Game: New York Yankees 15, New York Mets 0 by GravediggerHebner
- Fight Night- Frankie “Krod†Rodriguez vs Brian “Never Heard of Him†Bruney by dirtysanchez
You got something to say? Say it here!
143 comments
darknova306
6/15/2009-7:03am at 7:03 am (UTC -4)
Ugh, what a weekend. I really need this day off from baseball.
charlies
6/15/2009-7:59am at 7:59 am (UTC -4)
Well, the Johan has minor aches and pains story line has been given to the press. So, when do we start hearing the Johan to get MRI stories? Followed shortly thereafter with Johan to the DL headlines?
In his last six starts he’s given up 4, 2, 3, 3, 5, and 9 ER and his ERA has gone from 0.78 to 3.29.
His velocity is down. He’s not getting his Ks and he’s given up bombs.
This has me worried. The team is one Philly hot streak away from being in deep trouble.
darknova306
6/15/2009-8:12am at 8:12 am (UTC -4)
Let’s see, the storylines I’ve heard involve back issues and blister issues. Are they saying anything else at this time?
Honestly, if there’s anything physically wrong with Johan to keep him from pitching up to his ability, they need to sit him until he’s 100%. There’s no reason to keep him out there like this.
I predict he’ll get lit up in his next start, the MRI will come the next day, and the bad news will be announced a couple days later. Talk about the most disappointing season ever.
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
or one philly cold streak from taking 1st place
Mr North Jersey
6/15/2009-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
If Johan ever is out for an extended period of time for anything more serious than a blister it will drive me to drink.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/IIXXKRAZEXXII/TRDMB_Bottle_330x1024.png
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
Nice!
metsfan4decades
6/15/2009-8:07am at 8:07 am (UTC -4)
They need to figure it out and figure it out quick. We’re not going anywhere if we keep losing series after series.
I’m firmly convinced there is some kind of culture or mindset problem (for a lack of a better term) in that clubhouse. Is it confusion? Jerry often says one thing to the media and turns around a couple of days later and does exactly the opposite. Does he do the same thing with the team? Case in point: he tells the media Church is his every day RF, then he takes him out of the line up for days. Or…beginning of the season we saw no evidence of small ball with either running or bunting guys over, now we see bunting in a situation that seems strange or with a batter you would not normally ask to give up his bat for a bunt.
Also: is there way too much tinkering with the line up with platoons and positions in the order?
I know some of this is trying to find what will work amid all the injuries suffered. But is it too much where some or most can’t get a handle on what the game plan is from day to day?
prismo
6/15/2009-8:15am at 8:15 am (UTC -4)
I know exactly what you mean. Just to use the platoon example…
Positions platooned: 1B, LF, RF, C
Positions set: 2B, SS, 3B, CF
Half and half isn’t a set team or line-up at all. And it doesn’t let any of those platooned players get into a groove, and stay in it.
darknova306
6/15/2009-8:15am at 8:15 am (UTC -4)
Absolutely agree with you. His dealing of Church has been a disgrace. He said he’s the everyday RF, and got off to a really hot start, only to get the bench. All of that after Jerry talked about going with the hot hand. Yeah right, Jerry.
Wednesday is the anniversary of Willie’s firing, if I’m not mistaken. Let’s make it 2-for-2 on that day… We need to completely gut the organization, from top to bottom. This team needs DRASTIC action, not just trading for DeRosa or something like that. We need a wholesale change in the team’s mentality and leadership.
prismo
6/15/2009-8:22am at 8:22 am (UTC -4)
Haha honestly…the notion that DeRosa could turn this team around makes me “LOL”.
charlies
6/15/2009-8:51am at 8:51 am (UTC -4)
I think I have turned a dark corner with this team. I just don’t see it competing until the end. I see the club out of contention by the end of July. I am not a chicken little, mind you. I just don’t see it happening. The leadership is all wrong from top to bottom. I’m with the sentiment that it’s time for a full gut (starting with ownership and ending with Jerry and his staff). Getting a Mark DeRosa won’t help (despite the suspect spike in slugging percentage the last two years, which are his 33rd and 34th years, by the way). Hell, if this team got one of the premiere guys on the trading block, I don’t think it would make much of a difference. Oy, what a frustrating year…
trs86
6/15/2009-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
I just don’t see them falling completely out of the WC race. It’s lead by the Giants right now.
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
If we hang in there until Reyes comes back, we will be much better off. Not even using Friday night as a reason to do it, but Castillo should pretty much be sitting in Cora’s favor at 2B when Reyes gets back. Cora is a winning ballplayer. Not sure Castillo is anymore.
mrbill
6/15/2009-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
Like I said last week, I’d be shocked if the team makes it to the post season.
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
In an attempt to build some solidarity on this site right now…what was Bruney thinking? Is he serious? That would be like Wilmer Flores calling out Jeter.
charlies
6/15/2009-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
TA09, I hear you, but honestly what Bruney has to say means very little to me. To paraphrase a certain villian: this team needs an enema.
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
Like I said, I was trying to build solidarity on the site
We should beat up Bruney. K-Rod is one of the few winners we have on this team. Everyone else is a weiner.
charlies
6/15/2009-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
i understand what you are saying, but i don’t get why. all i have seen on this thread is a frustration with the team. what does bruney have to do with that?
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Not sure you are getting it. But, what I am saying is, “if you can’t beat ‘em, beat ‘em.”
mrbill
6/15/2009-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
What I don’t understand about Bruney’s comment about K-Rod’s celebration is that the Yankees also have a pitcher who does the same thing. Does he not see that? Does he think it’s ok if it’s one of his teammates? Double standard anyone?
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
Totally agree…and little Joba has 9 career wins and one memorable postseason meltdown…at least KRod has a VERY impressive career and a ring…
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
I love Beltran and everything, but did anyone see his quote in the paper? I’m not trying to pick on him, because he is FAR from the problem. He is as much a part of the solution as Wright, K-Rod, and Santana are. But here was his quote about the Bruney-KRod incident:
“You’re hurt, just worry about getting ready,” Beltran said. “He should worry about getting ready and trying to get back and help his team. Thank God he didn’t mention me.”
To me, that’s this team in a nutshell. Doesn’t seem to be too much togetherness. I’m not even K-Rod’s teammate, but what Bruney said aggravated me.
charlies
6/15/2009-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
I don’t understand the quote…what is it in reference to?
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
Beltran probably meant that Thank God for Bruney that Beltran’s name wasn’t mentioned. Because Bruney might be dead by now…
CaseStreet
6/15/2009-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
that’s how I read it
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
Exactly how I interpreted it. So, because he mentioned your teammate and not you, it’s ok? That’s a unity problem.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
Or he just simply meant that I don’t want to get involved in it.
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
thats how i took it…wouldnt be any seperation period.
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
I think F-Mart gets this week to prove he belongs. He seems to have lost confidence at the plate again. Not looking to drive the ball. Just looking to not strike out. I like him getting major league at bats, but if Sheff is OK and interleague play ends, F-Mart should be in Buffalo.
trs86
6/15/2009-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
Fmart should be in Buffalo either way.
mrbill
6/15/2009-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
I agree. He is not ready for ML. I think they rushed him but I understand why. It was an act of desperation.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
Yeah this couple series clearly showed us that FMart is not ready. He needs to play everyday in Buffalo
trs86
6/15/2009-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
Guys we sit here planning our own demise, however we came out of the Philly and Yankee’s series losing one game in the division and one game in the WC. The reason we are all down is even with this ragtag group instead of finishing 2-4 we could have finished 4-2. And all though there are no moral victories in baseball we did have those chances against to pretty good teams. It’s not like we are terrible. The Phillies did not look great against the RSox and WC race is full of teams with as many questions as the Mets.
Will Derosa and or Nick Johnson make us the studs of the league? Hell no. Could the help hold fort until some of these guys get back? Why not?
mrbill
6/15/2009-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
I should have bet a lot of money on the last 2 series. My prediction was 2-4.
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
We easily could have gone 5-1. We certainly should have gone 4-2.
mrbill
6/15/2009-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
Could’ve, should’ve…
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Exactly. No excuses. If Buckner makes that play, who knows what happens in the next inning?
mrbill
6/15/2009-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
I understand what you mean. Castillo catches that ball and the game is over. My point is no matter how secure a win is, the mets find a way to lose it.
That’s why the team is full of could-should-would’s.
GravediggerHebner
6/15/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
But even you didn’t believe in your prediction enough to put money on it. Could’ve, should’ve…
mrbill
6/15/2009-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
Oh, I believed in my prediction. I just don’t gamble.
CaseStreet
6/15/2009-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
glad to see some optimism, though I still don’t think the division is lost.
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
i agree. I still think we can make division.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
I was surprised to see SF Giants in the WC lead the other day.
Mets have SF, Mil, and StL for WC race.
But then I agree with Case that this division is still up for grabs. Remember guys. Mets were up 7 games with 17 games to go.
Joe R
6/15/2009-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
Its very simple. If Omar doesnt make a move soon he is basically telling the team and the fan base we are chalking this year up to devasting injuries and we will get them next year. Murphy is not ready to play in the Majors yet and this point and Tatis has been very bad to say the least. Wright’s power numbers are down and relying on a one legged 40 yr old for your offensive power is just not going to cut it. Unless Omar gets a big bat, and we still have some glaring weaknesses, I believe he is sending the message we are done this year. Manuel’s comment,although probably honest and truthful, about hopefully playing .500 ball until we get healthy and can reel off 15 of 20 was very stupid to say publicly for your team to hear. Its accepting mediocrity. If that is the game plan and Omar doesnt give him help it will be a long summer!
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
if by soon you mean june, then im sorry to tell you its not going to happen.
Joe R
6/15/2009-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Dont know how you know that but ok..
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
well if he had a good deal on the table…what is holding him back. Obviously the teams that we would be looking to trade with are asking way to much for a guy like nick johnson. They are probably doing this because its no secret we are hurting right now so they have the upper hand and can ask for as much as they want. By the trade deadline im sure they will ease up but by then it may/may not be to late. Supply and demand. Omar is not on the drivers seat on anything right now. We are going to have to get something done with what we have for a pretty good while.
Joe R
6/15/2009-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
Its only June 15th. Still 2 weeks left…who knows.
GravediggerHebner
6/15/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Because the vast majority of moves happen close to the trade deadline, which is in 6 weeks, and because Omar’s history of deadline deals is of small deals, that’s why he said it.
CaseStreet
6/15/2009-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
The Mets record is 4-8 in June with 15 games to go against the Orioles (3), Rays (3), Cardinals (4), Yankees (3)and Brewers (2).
What do you expect the Mets record to be in the rest of June?
10-15 may be possible.
charlies
6/15/2009-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
I’d say 9-18 for the month after the next 15 game stretch.
CaseStreet
6/15/2009-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
oops, meant 10-5 in the next 15. The games against Philly and Yankees were close, except for Sunday. Hope they can cash in against the Orioles.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
Both Orioles and Rays are strong offensive team. Our pitching hasn’t been stellar as of late. I don’t know if 10-5 is possible. I think it’ll be more like 8-7 or 7-8.
CaseStreet
6/15/2009-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
Well, in June our starters have had 7 of 12 quality starts. So, yes, it hasn’t been stellar. Hopefully they’ll bounce back. Otherwise, ur right.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
True. Pelf seems to have bounced back and Livan is Livan. I’m confident that Johan will be fine. But Nieve and Redding are crap shoot. I don’t know when Maine would be back, but even if he comes back, will he be okay?
Gees. This team has been hit with one of the worst injury bugs I’ve ever seen.
Any word on Reyes?
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Guys, there is NO way we are going 10–5 or 11–4.
I will be the first to gladly apologize and be thrilled if we do, but TB has been playing well and scores more than anyone in MLB…3 of 4 against the Cards? When was the last time that happened? They swept us pretty convincingly in April.
I love this team, but we are in very serious trouble.
Mr Bill is 100% right….this team is fundamentally flawed and finds ways to lose, whether it is baserunning blunders, Castillo Friday, Wright and Beltran’s plays against the Phils, etc. Yes, several of the games were close, but we lost 4 of 6.
We need a trade or two, and we need a manager who the players respect, who can teach fundamentals, who doesn’t have Church ever bunt, and who will use KRod in an important game when it is tied instead of with a damn 4 run lead.
CaseStreet
6/15/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
“this team is fundamentally flawed and finds ways to lose”
the same can be said for many teams. The problem is that we magnify it on the Mets but don’t realize that no one plays perfect baseball.
Yes, the Mets do make errors and other types of mistakes that cost the team, but so do other teams.
Baseball is a funny game. A hit here, a catch there, and the outcome is completely different.
So when this team becomes the Nats, then I’ll believe they don’t have a chance. Until then, I’ll continue to believe the Mets can and will make the playoffs.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
I agree with what you said yesterday, that this is what baseball has become, guys don’t run the bases hard and don’t use two hands, etc, absolutely true.
Maybe I am falling into the trap of negativity, but I really do not remember this team playing baseball this sloppy in recent memory.
Can you say you remember this many baserunning errors in a 60-game stretch? Castillo, Delgado, Murphy and someone else have all dropped pretty easy fly balls. That is 3 or 4 in about 60 games. Has that happened in the past ever?
Sorry, don’t mean to desert the optimist faction, but it seems to me that we have seen more baserunning and fielding errors and sloppiness this year than we have in recent memory.
Stats show we are making more errors, and there is simply no way we have had this many men thrown out on the bases in a short stretch like this.
And all of the injuries definitely magnify it, as does the over-aggressiveness with which we are forced to play with such a tiny margin of error.
CaseStreet
6/15/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
I guess what I’m saying is that there’s too many ups and downs in a season to say the team is out of it.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
You are probably right, and I sure hope you are.
No one in the NL WC race seems all that special, and we will indeed get a lot of real good players back eventually….
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
I think we can go 11-4. 2 of 3 against Balt, TB, and NYY. 3 of 4 from Stl, and sweep overrated Mil. That should put us in good position.
At least we didn’t lose any ground on Philly this weekend.
mrbill
6/15/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
At least we didn’t lose any ground on Philly this weekend.
Haaa, yeah it’s like time stood still.
mrbill
6/15/2009-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
The mets schedule only gets harder and harder. Right now the SR is very shaky, the team is not playing fundamental baseball and the bats fall asleep from game to game. I want them to win but they don’t give any reason to believe they will.
CaseStreet
6/15/2009-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
except for yesterday, the games have been close. it’s not like they’re getting trounced every day.
mrbill
6/15/2009-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
Catillo missing the catch on Saturday’s game is not that big of a deal because the game was SO CLOSE. If he misses the ball but it’s a blowout then the loss would have been more devastating…. PLEASE!
A lose is lose whether the game is close or a blowout.
CaseStreet
6/15/2009-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
you said, “I want them to win but they don’t give any reason to believe they will.”
I said, “it’s not like they’re getting trounced every day”
my point is that they do give a reason to believe, since the games are close and they haven’t been blown out every game.
mrbill
6/15/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
My observation on that is they don’t have what it takes to win close games, which is the mark of a good team.
CaseStreet
6/15/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
maybe, however in one run games, the Phils are 8-6 and the Mets are 11-11.
Also, in blow outs the Phils are 8-5 and the Mets are 6-6.
Not much of a difference. Guess time will tell.
mrbill
6/15/2009-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
*loss …WOW!
saltygary
6/15/2009-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
Nice breakdown of Johan on ESPN Insider:
• Johan Santana had the worst outing of his career, as Tyler Kepner writes. When Santana struggles, the Mets feel his pain, writes Jack Curry.
I asked John Fisher of ESPN Statistics and Analysis to look into Santana’s fastball readings, and what is striking is that in recent starts, he’s been throwing his fastball less and at a lower velocity. Here’s a game log for Santana so far in 2009:
Down Shift?
Avg MPH Fastballs ’09 Date
91.16 60 4/12
90.90 51 4/18
91.55 65 4/24
91.59 71 4/29
91.73 58 5/6
90.02 65 5/11
90.89 52 5/16
91.37 58 5/22
90.31 62 5/27
89.89 34 6/2
90.06 40 6/9
89.30 51 6/14
He’s also been throwing a fewer percentage of fastballs, as these numbers show indicate:
Santana’s Pitch Mix
Date Fastball % Slider % Change %
4/6 67.8 10.1 22.2
4/12 64.3 8.2 27.6
4/18 60.8 10.8 28.4
4/24 68.3 14.4 17.3
4/29 67.9 2.8 22.0
5/6 62.4 13.9 23.8
5/11 67.6 11.1 20.4
5/16 56.4 8.9 34.7
5/22 54.2 18.6 26.3
5/27 62.5 6.7 30.8
6/2 52.9 5.9 41.2
6/9 62.6 11.0 26.4
6/14 58.5 13.4 26.8
Total 62.1 10.5 26.6
It’s been awhile since Santana has been untouchable. He sort of insisted that he is healthy, while also listing ailments.
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
so velocity isnt really an issue as he has more or less stayed within his “max” range for this season
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
I know this isn’t a realistic option right now, but is it me or is Wright turning into more of #2 type of hitter? Gets a lot of hits to opposite field with high average. And steals a lot of bases.
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
he has definatly changed his game. Focusing on average than power. He has also regain a step on the basepaths
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
Yes. It really seems that his approach has changed a lot. He still strikes out a lot, but I wouldn’t mind seeing him back in #3 spot. Or would that mess up his psyche again?
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
i would rather keep him in the 5 spot as i wouldnt want him to get pull happy. Plus i like that he is hitting for avg and stealing, definatly what you need in citi.
Joe R
6/15/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, except this team has relied on him for power the last few years and now with Delgado out its a pretty bad time to lose another power hitter. But overall maybe one day when power isnt an issue, I like his approach and consistency when he plays like this. Very nice to see. I know this team has made alot of mental mistakes, but I really hope Omar doesnt throw this year away. I cant put my finger on it, but maybe its partly the way be have been playing the last couple of months so shorthanded, this team I think if healthy and a big bat before its too late, has what it takes to get it done this year. Just a feeling I have with all the very close losses, the runs we are scoring, the bench with Cora and Sheffield. I mean Santos. There have been some feel good stories just a shame we need so much out of these guys!
darknova306
6/15/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Problem is, none of the guys that can really help (Delgado, Reyes) are going to be healthy and productive before it’s too late. I’m even skeptical that Delgado will be back at all this year.
The problem is we SHOULD be losing the games in the way we’re losing them. We don’t play anywhere close to solid fundamental baseball, so Friday is something that should happen. I’m sorry, Nationals-level defense does not win a championship.
Joe R
6/15/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Agreed it wont get the job done at all! But players need to step up. Jerry is not out there. Do you think if Jerry hit 100 more pop ups to castillo he wouldnt have dropped the ball? If jerry made Church practice touching third 100 times he wouldnt have missed the bag? Accountability! Step it up guys
CaseStreet
6/15/2009-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Would the team have performed better w/ Ollie in the rotation?
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
depends on which ollie showed up
mrbill
6/15/2009-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
lol
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Healthy Ollie? (Mentally healthy Ollie) maybe…
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Prom King Ollie
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Mr. Potato Ollie
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
The team is playing sloppy fundamental baseball and this is not going to change with Jerry at the helm, or it would have already.
Jerry is Willie 2.0, in all ways. Wait for things to change without doing anything to change them.
Saturday Santos gets in a rundown idiotically moving off of 2nd with two outs and a grounder hit to third….yesterday, when the game was still close, we could not execute a rundown in the field.
This team is embarrassingly sloppy, and at this point, there is no chance we stay in the race with the team we have, when we give up runners and outs almost every day.
I know I have been a serious optimist, but we are about 4 or 5 games away from being the 3rd worst team in the NL record-wise.
And we surely will hear soon that Maine–and probably Sheffield–will be out for a while.
We need a disciplinarian to enforce fundamental baseball and we need it now, or this season is almost surely lost.
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Paging Buck Showalter.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
I pretty much completely agree.
And yes, he does wear out his welcome, but the year after his departure in NY AND AZ, the team he left behind won the WS. And he won 2 Manager of the Year awards.
We need a serious taskmaster to make these damn guys run the bases like pros, run hard on the bases, and start having popup and rundown drills.
Hire him TODAY.
GravediggerHebner
6/15/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Showalter, like Bobby V., is best for teams filled with guys capable of overachieving. Maybe this team has some of those guys, but I haven’t seen signs of it.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
Grave, I agree about Bobby V, but all I want to see at this point is guys running hard and not getting thrown out at 2nd, 3rd, and home constantly.
GravediggerHebner
6/15/2009-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
If it weren’t for the downturn of the economy I could envision a number of Met players simply retiring if Showalter came in. I appreciate the sentiment and desire for change but I don’t think some new guy coming in and yelling at them will accomplish much, especially it being the 3rd new voice in one 12 month period. The players would just continue to do their own thing and wait for him to be fired too IMO. Their may very well be a change, but I see it coming after the season, not during. Perhaps a coach before then, the Buffalo coaching staff is in some flux right now, could be a precursor.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Good points as usual Grave…
But unless we at least make the postseason this year, I would love a quick October housecleaning of Jerry, the coaches, and the medical and training staffs.
Joe R
6/15/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Agreed and I’m not a Jerry defender most days, but I think he has done a good job. Sometimes I might disagree with decisions. I believe though Jerry is doing a good job with this team. The fact we are in every game and should have won the Philly series and obviously the Yankee series, etc means he is putting his players in a position to succeed. Rundowns, missing bases, dropped flyballs can’t be pinned on Jerry. I mean do you really think he hasnt lectured the team on these mistakes? Do you really think he hasnt talked to each individual player when the make a bonehead play? They are professionals and need to step it up. Jerry is not the issue in my mind. In fact every bad decision, at least in my mind, when listening to his explanantion most of the times it is rational.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
I cannot really agree Joe. I am not one who nitpicks Jerry’s decisions, but he did not use KRod in the Philly game, but he uses him with a 4 run lead against the Yanks? Why the hell EVER have Church bunt?
And as for fundamentals, if it is once in a while, that is one thing, but this team has made every bonehead play known to man, and we see sloppiness and poorly executed fundamentals almost every day.
And Johan clearly does not respect Jerry, nor does Wright, and they are the team’s two leaders.
As they say, you cannot fire the players.
If we go 10–5 in the next 15, trust me, I will be here singing Jerry’s praises and gladly eating crow, but I cannot see this happening.
We are 2–4 six games into our hell stretch of schedule.
And if the Friday night play was reversed, how many of us could be sure that the Mets on the bases would have been running like Tex was??
mrbill
6/15/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
a) What makes you say Wright has no respect for Jerry?
b) The answer to your question is nobody. The mets most likely wouldn’t have scored like the Yankees did on that play.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
After Wright was thrown out at third twice in one game, he publicly questioned Jerry and disagreed with his evaluation of the situation and said he would do the same thing again–and this is from a guy who usually goes out of his way to say the right thing and avoid controversy.
And there have been recent reports (sorry, I cannot remember from where, and do not have the time now to look into it) that Johan, Wright and others do not like Jerry and his style.
I still do think Wright is our best player, and frankly, I think he is the ONLY guy on this team who hustles 100% of the time.
Pretty funny that I am criticizing Wright and you are asking for proof from me!! LOL!!
I definitely prefer us getting along Mr Bill…..
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
i agree with king. He basically said F U im doing what i want to do in the media after he meet with Jerry. I dont think jerry can control this bunch…
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
Agreed 100%.
Maybe he does not even try to stress fundamentals, as he knows he will be ignored.
Look at how Johan dealt with being taken out of the game last week.
They have zero respect for Jerry.
And these are the team’s biggest stars.
Their example shines like a beacon.
GravediggerHebner
6/15/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
Perhaps they show their respect for him by trusting him to allow them to express themselves?
Perhaps a cultural difference?
Joe R
6/15/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Do you think if Jerry hit 100 more pop ups to castillo he wouldnt have dropped the ball? If jerry made Church practice touching third 100 times he wouldnt have missed the bag? Accountability! Step it up guys. Church is bunting on his own for the most part like the ridiculous bunt the other day with one out and man on second. Stupid play by Church. Jerry is not the issue….yet
mrbill
6/15/2009-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
The problem i have with Jerry is the way he views some things. Like when the mets leave 16 men on base he says (i’m paraphrasing)”we are hitting the ball well, we are getting on base, i like that”.
WHAT!!!!???? And his statement from yesterday “there are 100 games left, we’ll be ok”. What is that!?
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
That is Willie Randolph speaking through Jerry’s mouth.
Is that EXACTLY what Willie would have said, or what?
mrbill
6/15/2009-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
Yeah. He would have said the same thing. They are both wrong. Jerry can only say the same things because that’s the only way he knows how to “manage” the team.
mrbill
6/15/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
LOL, not asking for proof. I was just curious because i had no idea that happened between Wright and Jerry.
It’s interesting how the team had no respect for Willie and they loved Jerry when he was their brand new manager but now they don’t respect him either.
What a disrespectful bunch! … LOL
Joe R
6/15/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Thats because Tex is a great player, teammate, he cares, he hustles. Blame Omar on not signing him not Manuel. Thats not Girardi teaching his team to run plays out, that is Tex playing the game hard.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, perhaps….
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
the last “disciplinarian” got ran out of town by the “latin” ballplayers…according to a report by keith.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
I disagree.
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
according to keith, the big “latin” players ran willie out of town. Look at my “rock bottom” piece. With willie, th team got better defensivly every year. In like september or soemthing, luis castillo was benched for not hustling on a play…funny jerry had the same issue but chose to handle it differently.
mrbill
6/15/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
More like THE big latin player whose name I am not going to say but it starts with a C as Carlos and his last name’s initial is D as delgado… lol
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
hm…the big latin player..that starts with a C like carlos and D like delgado…wonder who that is…im going to have to check the roster sheet.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
I disagree about Willie being a disciplinarian….if Keith says that about the other part of the statement, then there is probably some truth to it.
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
well i mean he did bench luis for not running soemthing out last year and they were much better defensivly under his watch…what staple does jerry have. “They are more relaxed?”….look how well that has worked so far. We make the news not for our accomplishments but for stupid base running mistakes and defensive mishaps
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
I agree. You blame the players for not executing, but I think you need to blame the coaching staff for the fundamental mistakes. Here’s an interesting angle though. Mets are playing very aggressive baseball, probably to counter lack of power. Maybe, all these brain farts are coming from all these aggressive mentality. Mets players are pressing. Beltran didn’t need to jump to catch that ball. But he wanted to be aggressive. Wright didn’t need to charge that ball, but being aggressive. All the base running blunders are because of aggressive base running.
Castillo’s drop……..sigh……. I feel bad for him. We all can agree that he tries hard. We can see that. Looks like he tried hard to lose weight and get in shape. He tries hard to contribute to this team and for the most he has been.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Agreed on the overaggressiveness, but again, why was Santos off of 2nd on Saturday? Why was yesterday’s rundown executed so poorly?
Again and again and again this happens, and like when Johan VERY publicly showed Jerry up, there are ZERO consequences on this team for anything.
Jerry is Willie.
darknova306
6/15/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
Castillo deserves a ton of credit for his hard work. I can’t argue that. There’s still no excuse for dropping that ball. That being said, he showed what a real man is by how he confronted his mistake with the media.
Playing aggressive is good, it’s the way we should play even when we have power in the lineup. There’s no reason to play stupidly aggressive, though. You can play aggressive and smart simultaneously, but these guys are downright dumb on the field. I blame this on the manager. You’ve got to instill a certain mentality in your players, and Jerry fail terribly at that.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
I don’t disagree. I’ve been critical of Jerry since the beginning of the season. But I highly doubt there will be a change when the Mets are couple games behind in WC. If the Mets fall off big time in next month or so, I can see the move…
Omar isn’t off the hook either. He hasn’t done anything so far to help Jerry. He has already fired 1 manager, so his leash isn’t that long either.
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
agreed on lue..its hard to forget and forgive but he has done well on this team so far this year and that should be taken into consideration. The team is playing aggressive ill agree. My worry is they are playing too agressivly that it no longer becomes a attribute but it morphs into a flaw and thats where they are at. They are too agressive and they are shooting themselves in the foot.
“Remember Jack, Crazy not Stupid”
-speed
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
I think the media needs to step up for Luis. In order for the fans to be supportive of Luis, media has got to step up. Otherwise, he’ll get killed in Citi Field and we all remember what it can do to Luis. I don’t want to see him go down that route again.
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
unfortunatly…ny fans are minoritivly stupid…people will still boo even if the media portrays luey as a main piece of the cog
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
Yes, that’s really unfortunate. There are just too many idiot fans out there. They’ll boo him not understanding what it can do to his performance. Luis has been good for the most part. His mistake just came at very wrong time.
I wish some of the key players come out publicly and support him. I want to hear Wright, Beltran, KRod all come out and say (and not one of those Cliche stuff) that they support Luis.
Because if you think about it. If KRod didn’t get Jeter or Tex on bases, we wouldn’t be talking about it. Hence it’s a team game.
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
well krod said publicly that he supports castillo. Castillo said a number of his teammates supported him but didnt drop any names. Its unfortunate but until he hits a game winning shot or a 3 run homer…its 2008 all over again im afraid
Joe R
6/15/2009-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Luis did not struggle because the fans boo him last year. Thats just ridiculous. He was fat, out of shape, and injured due to the fact he was out of shape. All Luis’s doing…not the fans. He played horrible and then got boo’ed
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
im sure it didnt help tho joe…which is why i never understood booing in the first place…
Joe R
6/15/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
NY fans are some of the smartest fans around. Ask any player on an opposing team in either hockey, baseball, football, basketball. NY fans are known for being tough but they are more importantly known for knowing the game!
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Absolutely true.
Even us few dozen Net fans!!
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/15/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know if this was just me, but when Luis was under the ball, he looked very shaky. His feet were not moving right and I was like “uh-oh”.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Absolutely…as soon as he stumbled, it looked like a disaster in the making…
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
two hands….two hands
Joe R
6/15/2009-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
NY fans are some of the smartest fans around. Ask any player on an opposing team in either hockey, baseball, football, basketball. NY fans are known for being tough but they are more importantly known for knowing the game.
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
im sure that doesnt include half of the yankee fan base. If your a jet/giant/met fan…you know your team. Yankee fans dont necessarily know who is playing on their team outside of jeter and arod. Ask a yankee fan if they know who is in their bullpen..ill be surprised if they know rivera is still pitching for them lol
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Us 30 or 40 Net fans actually know basketball pretty well too….
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
ah i forgot basketball fans…bball isnt high on my sports list im afraid lol
Joe R
6/15/2009-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
oops..posted that twice
stickguy
6/15/2009-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
I doubt thee will be a manager (or wholesale roster) change before the end of the season. But for sure, if they continue to stumble and bumble their way to an 85 win seson and no playoffs, changes will come.
And I don’t blame the Wilpons (or more acurately, think they are the problem). They set a high payroll, and give the GM pretty much autonomy to run the BB operation.
You want to blame them for anything, it was picking Omar.
So, after this season (if it does not end well) they do need to seriously clean house. Operationally (even if Omar stays), top to bottom. MiL ops (inc. Bernazard), medical, etc. Jerry too. And if Omar won’t do it (and would rather stay loyal to his cronies) he can go too.
ANd there will be a wholesale (has to be) makeover of the roster. Delgado gone, Castillo needs to go, etc. Get some fresh blood and a manager that will set a winning, play the right way tone. And one that has no taint from the last couple of years.
Actually, given the amount of change potentailly required, It might be best to ditch Omar too, and let a new guy remake the organization top to bottom. I don’t think Omar is that bad, but I also don’t think he has the stones to do it (and be ruthless).
That should lead to a fun off season on the blogs!
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
i dont think omar will be gone regardless of this years outcome, however…if there ever was a time to change the helm…it would be after this season.
darknova306
6/15/2009-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
Well stated. This will be the makeover a lot people were clamoring for this past offseason (though they were ridiculed for stating as such). I don’t see anything happening during the season, but I’ll still hope for it.
If the new GM can come in and draw up a plan for building a dominant team for a couple years from now, I’ll support it wholeheartedly. Let’s get this done!
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
Funny thing is, if Castillo doesn’t drop that ball, we aren’t having this discussion. It was a physicall error that cost us a winning weekend. Let’s get a grip.
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
physical. oops.
Kingman 26
6/15/2009-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
Disagree my friend….we are playing shoddy baseball every day.
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
Personally, the Phillies losses during the week were more aggravating and more painful for this team in that it was a 4 game swing in the standings.
Sure, we should have beaten the Yanks 2 of 3 this weekend, but you can’t harp on that. In the end, we lost no ground this weekend. We lost an opportunity to gain ground, but we still have games vs. Philly. Played well on Saturday. Had just as many hits as the Yanks had yesterday (or close to). It’s not everyday. Our losses just really happen to be especially painful ones.
dirtysanchez
6/15/2009-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
well they are more painful given our predicament but frankly its still june and 100 plus games left to play…we have shown even with a depleated lineup we can hang in the division. Like you said we missed out on a good opp but we have to like that we are only 4 games out with almost half of our opening day roster on the DL
darknova306
6/15/2009-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
We’ve lost a lot more games due to shoddy play on the field than just the ones over the past week. We’ve been doing it all season, even with a fully healthy team. The sad thing is, we’ve just given away so many games we were going to win by playing Nationals style defense, that we’d be at least 3 games above Philly if we ANY sense of how to play proper baseball. No excuses.
And our anemic hitting with the bases loaded has been helping to crush us for a long time now. This is sickening to watch. I go grab another beer once we’ve gotten the bases loaded, cause I know it’ll be a quick and ugly end to the inning.
There's Always '09
6/15/2009-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
That is completely inexcusable. When trailing 4-0, loading the bases adn getting zero runs is unreal. I don’t care if Koufax is on the mound. Cora and F-Mart need to put the ball in play.
Wright and Beltran still can’t hit home runs. Even in bandboxes. Hopefully they are saving them for more important games, like the Phils.
Anyone see the OBP of those two by the way? It’s pretty ridiculous. Beltran (.437) and Wright (.459). Nobody is pitching to them. Not to mention their high averages.