“The Mets are gonna be amazing.” Casey Stengel
Here’s what you missed on Monday, June 15, 2009:
- Morning Open Thread by CaseStreet
- Picture of the Day… by QnsNative718
- This Day In Mets Infamy with Rusty 6/15/09 by rustyjr
- The Mets Need to Make This Move… by QnsNative718
- If Not Jerry Manuel, Who? by GravediggerHebner
- Welcome Centerfieldgate.com to the NL East Chatter Community! by mrose
- If the Phillies are so Damn Good…? by trs86
- BREAKING NEWS: NO MRI “NEEDED†FOR SHEF by dirtysanchez
- Playing The Odds by dirtysanchez
- Uh What do we do NOW?: Part 3 by trs86
- BREAKING NEWS, Front Page TRDMB by trs86
You got something to say? Say it here!
153 comments
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-7:30am at 7:30 am (UTC -4)
Anyone see Kernan’s article? Thoughts? I agree with Omar, don’t mortgage the future. But I do think we need to make a deal or two. AND I really believe signing Sheets would go a long way. You don’t know what he’s going to give you, but at least you have the hope of a strong arm for late Aug and Sept.
darknova306
6/16/2009-7:54am at 7:54 am (UTC -4)
I agree that a move needs to be made, but I don’t see anything really putting us over the top right now with the defense the way it is. We’re one depressing MRI away from a rotation of a #2, 2 #5s, and a couple AAA pitchers. We need to shore up the rotation, get a power bat, and acquire some solid baseball fundamentals. I don’t think all of that can be done without giving up the future. We would be in first place easily if we had solid fundamentals. Can we fix that with a trade?
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-8:10am at 8:10 am (UTC -4)
Agreed that fundamentals need to be fixed and can’t be done in a trade. (And scared to death about Santana). If we could get one more bat (Huff level player), and a pitcher (not sure who Omar will target), and all of the injuries come out as smoothly as can be I think we can still vie for the NL East.
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-8:21am at 8:21 am (UTC -4)
What’s going on with Santana? Going for an MRI? Haven’t heard anything about that. I know Rick Peterson speculated that his knee may be an issue.
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-8:56am at 8:56 am (UTC -4)
No MRI scheduled, just a lot of speculation that he may be hurt since he hasn’t pitched like himself for a month+.
darknova306
6/16/2009-8:22am at 8:22 am (UTC -4)
Power bat plus a pitcher. How do we do that without giving up what little we have for the future? We’ve got plenty of #5 pitchers, but we’re short on front line guys (especially if Santana gets sidelined with something)… who do you go after that will fill that need and not give up the future?
Don’t kid yourself, Maine will be out for a while, Livan will fall back to Earth, Delgado will be out until August and will need time to really get back into game shape and be productive, and who knows about Jose. Your scenario requires a perfect set of events to occur for the Mets to contend. With the way things go for this team….
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-8:37am at 8:37 am (UTC -4)
I agree that in terms of injury we need a “perfect” set of events. But in terms of injury, I think we could get a Huff-type and a pitcher without giving up Parnell or Martinez. IMO, any other prospect should be on the block.
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-8:40am at 8:40 am (UTC -4)
Including Daniel Murphy? Or has he declined to the point of non-prospect yet?
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
I think he has some value left, but I definitely think he should be on the table.
metsfan4decades
6/16/2009-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
I’ve been saying this for weeks too – one injury away to the SP for disaster.
With all the injuries to position players I think the only way we’re staying in this until we get all back is with very good pitching. Keep them off the board – especially since our offense is a little on the weak side right now.
Sheets….never thought about him. Not sure if I’d want to take a chance though. If you look at any pitcher who had surgery the year before on his arm, most don’t do better than mediocre the year after. Look at Maine – he’s still having issues trying to make his way back after surgery.
If we had any idea what is up with Ollie this might be a mute point. But at this point we have no idea if he’ll make it back this year and if he does, can he pitch effectively enough to give us some wins? So many ifs..
udontmesswthejohan
6/16/2009-8:20am at 8:20 am (UTC -4)
Let’s face the facts here guys. Right now, the Mets should not be buyers, nor should they be sellers. As unpallatable as it may sound, right now they need to just stand pat and hope for the best. There is no sense in mortgaging the long term future of this team for what may very well be no run at all (see Scott Kazmir).
If the Mets are able to stay 3, 4, or 5 games above .500 and then can get back Reyes, then IMO the best bet is to try and go out and get a bat. The SP has too many holes and there are not enough ways to fill them. try and get a big bat and they are going to have to out hit some teams, if they don’t do that, they won’t win.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, but the Kazmir trade was primarily horrible because we received less than nothing for him….had we traded him for a good player or good players who made a difference that year, it may have been different.
This offense is really, really shaky, and depends totally on Wright and Beltran continuing to hit well over their career norms (especially Beltran) and Shef continuing to have hot streaks. If either of those things end, we will be scoring very little…..
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-8:42am at 8:42 am (UTC -4)
I think not going after a big bat and sticking with Murphy was Omar’s biggest miscue of the offseason.
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-8:46am at 8:46 am (UTC -4)
Well, he had a few. Going for Ollie even though he could have spent a bit more and got Lowe was pretty big. But the idea that Murphy was ready for the majors was silly.
darknova306
6/16/2009-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
The silly thing was expecting Murphy to produce well enough to justify staying with the team in LF, a position where you’d like to get a few more than 3 or 4 HRs during the season, while passing up on three OFs that were sure-fire producers. Omar didn’t even try to get any of those guys, which is the biggest failure of the offseason.
darknova306
6/16/2009-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
*second biggest failure behind Ollie (which should go without saying)
mrbill
6/16/2009-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
I agree. A lot of people thought Murphy was a prodigy and somehow he was going to blow everyone away. I always thought that move was a mistake.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
I admit that I was one those who thought Murphy was going to be very good. I think he still has a chance to be .300 18HR guy. But this year might be too early for him. I agree that Omar should have gotten a legit power threat OF via FA. But it’s not too late now. Dunn and Huff are available and Omar needs to get a power bat.
darknova306
6/16/2009-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
It’s too late for that to matter. This team, even with a power bat, isn’t good enough. Don’t waste the prospects.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
I agree. Ollie does look like a disaster, but the jury is still out on that.
But not signing Dunn or Abreu, especially considering what they eventually signed for (and their 2009 numbers), was his worst move maybe ever.
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. Before the offseason started I was sure we would get Ibanez or Abreu…I was shocked when we didn’t got that hard after Ibanez and floored when we didn’t make a play for Abreu or Dunn.
udontmesswthejohan
6/16/2009-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
Well, I can’t blame Omar there since I was a huge Murphman supporter, but the truth of the matter is that he just isn’t getting the job done right now. I hate to say it, but I’m really unsure of what the future holds for him as far as the Mets. He doesn’t have a position, and he no longer hits. That is not a recipe for success.
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
Wish we could get Prince Fielder.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-8:56am at 8:56 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, those 62 RBI would be nice….
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
And…he might be BIG, but he hustles. He was even running out that homer until it cleared the fence.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
And he does seem to truly want to win, from what I have seen.
I was surprised at his stats this year. Career highs in OBP (by far) and BA.
And he is only 25. Maybe a Santana-like deal could be worked out at some point, as Milwaukee will never pay him the mammoth deal he will command if he keeps up the stats he has this year.
He would look OK at first in Citi for the next half-decade….
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
You’re not kidding. And for that type of player you look at moving Martinez and/or Parnell.
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
I move Martinez, Parnell, and Niese for Fielder and Counsell.
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
In a heartbeat…get Omar on the phone!
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
Before you rush to the phone…Sean Green is now your setup man. I say we cut the phone lines.
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
Oh barf…I’d still do it and then pray for the return of Wags and Putz.
metsfan4decades
6/16/2009-9:14am at 9:14 am (UTC -4)
Between last season and this one every time I find myself getting excited about a potential acquisition or trade my mind immediately goes to ‘how long before he goes on the DL’? That being said, as big as Prince is, he did recognize that problem last year and was trying to slim down. That will go along way towards keeping him off the DL…
Anyone know when he’s a FA? I didn’t think it was the end of this year but no reason a trade can’t be made. I think though Mil wouldn’t consider it right now seeing as they’re currently in first place….
charlies
6/16/2009-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
According to Cot’s, he is playing under a two year, $18m contract that takes him through the 2010 season when we becomes a FA. So, 2011 is the earliest you can hope to sign him. Until then, he’s cheap at $9m/year and will definitely not be traded.
charlies
6/16/2009-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
Sorry, averaged the salaries. Actually $6.5m in 09 and $11.5m in 10.
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
The Brewers listened to offers during the offseason. There is not a good relationship between Fielder and the front office. Of course that could change since he is such a great player, but it would be inaccurate to say he would “definitely” not be traded.
charlies
6/16/2009-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
Well, to be fair, talking about the future and without specific knowledge of the Brewers’ thinking, saying “definitely” is inherently flawed. But, logic dictates the Brewers will seek a lopsided deal before moving such a productive/cheap player.
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. Moving Prince would not make sense.
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
He is signed for $5.5MM this year, but $11.5MM in 2010. I can’t see them moving him during the season though. Especially if they remain in 1st place. This would be an offseason deal. One that should definitely be explored, as we’ll be in the market for a slugging first baseman.
metsfan4decades
6/16/2009-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
11.5 MM is cheap for someone with that talent. Of course the price to be paid will be whoever we’re willing to give up for that trade. I’d really like to see them try and put that trade together in the off season.
charlies
6/16/2009-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
I just don’t see what trading him before the deadline (7/31/10) does for the Brewers unless they get a great deal and we all know the Mets don’t exactly have the pieces to wow anyone.
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Well, $11.5 is cheap. But why would they back load the contract that much? I understand a raise is normal, but he is scheduled to almost double what he is making this year. I could see him on the block this offseason. Makes no sense to trade him now unless they completely implode.
charlies
6/16/2009-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
TA09, look at Wright’s contract. When a team signs a player during his arbitration eligible years, the contract usually takes this ramped-up appearance to mimic what the arbitration process would produce. The upside for the player and the team is that they don’t have to go through the process and there is less uncertainty as it pertains to the payroll to help the team with planning.
So, I’m not sure there was a deliberate back loading as much as there was a natural ramp up.
In any event, I agree the Brew Crew is not likely to trade him this year. I just don’t see why they would trade him until the trade deadline next year.
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
He might be big, but he’s pretty nimble at 1B as well.
mrbill
6/16/2009-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
Wish we could get Prince Fielder.
I said the same thing last night watching him hit that home run. He hustled like it was a single. Reyes should watch that replay over and over.
metsfan4decades
6/16/2009-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
You know it’s bad when Sports Night has now dubbed us ‘the Ailing Amazins’…..
Heard a few minutes of Mike F. yesterday afternoon. Even he had some sympathy for the Mets and the current state of injuries. I’ve noticed that same mindset change among many blogs I read and sports shows I watch. We’ve gone from the big story being our god awful defense and anemic offense and how all were ripping us apart for that to ‘you’ve got to give them credit for staying this close given the state of the their injuries’.
Same team and now we’ve gone from the team everyone wanted to rip apart for poor play so far this year to the team everyone is giving credit to for staying this close considering…
Baseball is a funny game……
darknova306
6/16/2009-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
This team should continually be ripped until their poor play improves. Injuries should not be allowed to be an excuse for poor play. When this team takes the field it’s like watching a bunch of clowns waddling out of the dugout. The team doesn’t deserve pity. If any of these guys could use half their brain on defense and on the basepaths, we’d at least be tied with Philly.
udontmesswthejohan
6/16/2009-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
Get real man, compare the Yankees and the Phillies lineup to the one the Mets are throwing out there on offense and defense and tell me that they are not totally overmatched at nearly every position.
They are playing hard and they are battling and for that they should be commended, but at the end of the day that willnot be enough as talent is always the ultimate difference maker.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
I think Mets are better in CF position… lol
darknova306
6/16/2009-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
I’m saying that the defense and baserunning have directly led to enough losses where, if we actually played defense and baserunning with half a brain, we’d be right there at the top. I’m not saying we’re better in any way. Even healthy our team isn’t better than Philly.
The Phillies will win the division and the Cardinals/Brewers will grab the WC. I know this.
mrbill
6/16/2009-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Sad but true.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
Sorry udontmess, gotta respectfully disagree…they are not all playing hard all the time, and many of them could care less about fundamentals.
How many errors this year? How many men thrown out on the bases?
Murph’s fly ball in FL, Church missing the bag in LA, Slappy’s fly ball last Fri–that is at least THREE games we literally gave away—in the first 59 of the year! Maybe one could be excused, but three?
And we missed the postseason by one game the last two years.
Some sloppy play can be excused, but not the amount we have seen in just 61 games this year.
mrbill
6/16/2009-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
The injury excuse is getting old. People think that once Reyes and Delgado are back the team will miraculously play better defense. First of all, Reyes was not having a good year before he got injured and I doubt Delgado will be back this year.
Reyes’ comeback will not be enough to make the post season. He’s not that type of hero. He’s not Manny from 2008.
charlies
6/16/2009-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
This team is in bad shape. I don’t think Omar’s going to do anything in the trade market because I don’t think they feel the team is close enough to be a true champsionship contender this year.
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think they should trade pieces for decent, but not great players. If they can’t get a major difference maker, it doesn’t pay to waste any chips. Hold onto them and hope they progress. Although history tells us they will most likely regress int he Mets farm.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
And other than FMart and Parnell, what do we have of serious value? We cannot trade Parnell.
On the other hand, we must remember the Johan trade.
We must remember it because it shows that Omar does have some serious successes mixed in with the Ollie signing and the big bat non-signing, and it also shows that, on occasion, a serious star can be had for a steaming pile of nothing, which we gave the Twins for Johan.
charlies
6/16/2009-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
yeah, the mets are little bits to trade even if they wanted to make a huge move.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
Mets were a fastball away from WS in 2006. This team has more talent and more depth than ’06 team. This team has a legit Ace. Legit closer (much better than Wagner) and Reyes and Wright have matured. If we add in a piece like Dunn or Huff, we’re looking at Sheff possibly batting 7th! Now if that’s not a WS contender team, I don’t know what is.
metsfan4decades
6/16/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
I like your thinking!
charlies
6/16/2009-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
- Jose Reyes is injured and we don’t know when he’ll be back.
- Carlos Delgado might not be back until August and who knows how long until his timing is back.
- John Maine is hurt.
- Oliver Perez is awful and who knows if he’ll be back.
- JJ Putz has had surgery and can be two months away.
- Daniel Murhpy (an opening day starter) has been awful.
- Fernando Tatis has been awful.
- The catcher position has been awful.
- Johan Santana has been bad (by his standards) for six starts now (ERA has gone from .78 to 3.29)
- Ryan Church hasn’t been good.
I mean, come on, this is ridiculous.
mrbill
6/16/2009-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Even though the team has all these issues, up to this point they should have won more games (at least 5 or 6)if they played fundamental baseball.
stickguy
6/16/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
And still, they are right there in the mix.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
As is every team in the NL other than Washington and maybe SD and AZ…..
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
It is ridiculous, but
-Reyes will come back eventually
-Delgado will come back eventually and if not, Omar WILL make a move
-John Maine’s injury is supposedly more of pre-cautionary
-Ollie was awful in ’06 too
-JJ Putz <–Bobby Parnell
-Acquiring a power bat OF would solve Murphy, Tatis being awful
-LoDuca wasn’t much better than Omir Santos offensively
-Santana will be fine
-Church/Sheff platooning will be better than Floyd/Green platoon.
So.. Omar needs to get a power OF. It can help in a lot of aspects.
mrbill
6/16/2009-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
it is.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
We have no idea if and when Delgado, Ollie, Maine and JJ will be back and how effective they will then be.
Ollie started 7 games in 2006.
Parnell has two good months behind him. Duaner Sanchez and Joe Smith looked unhittable for two months too.
LoDuca was FAR more productive than Santos—he hit .318, his OBP was .355, and he hit 39 doubles!
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Delgado, Ollie, Maine and JJ will be back at some point and I’m sure 2 out of 4 will be okay. We also have Wagner coming back as well as Pagan.
charlies
6/16/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
That’s a whole lot of things going right during a season when a lot has gone wrong.
And, um, Paul Lo Duca? He was much better than Santos and he was the heart and soul of the team.
2006 in JUST 124 games:
.318 / .355 / .428
80 Runs
49 RBI
- Perez only made 7 starts for the team in 2006, he was hardly the pitcher he was supposed to be this year. And, we all know how well he pitched in the playoffs.
- Reyes will come back, yes. When? In what shape?
- Delgado might not be back until after the trade deadline. What then?
- We needed JJ and Bobby in the pen to be great. Not just one.
- Agreed about the outfield power bat, but who and for what pieces?
- I hope you’re right about Santana.
- One platoon being marginally better than a former platoon, fine. But, we all know Floyd had a tremendous clubhouse presence.
- When Maine is back and pitching up to his normal standards, I’ll consider his status injured and not just precautionary.
But, your central point is right on. Omar needs to get a power OF bat. Only issue is, he doesn’t have the trade bait to do it, IMO.
mrbill
6/16/2009-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Not only do they need a bat, they also need a pitcher.
This team was doomed from the get go. The original roster was flawed and it only got worse.
charlies
6/16/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
yes, i agree. i was just pointing out that i agreed with something kistics was saying.
darknova306
6/16/2009-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
What WS contender team plays craptacular defense from day 1? They could actually field in 2006. And a sometimes healthy Alou was WAY more productive than the garbage we’ve had in LF this year (a few Sheffield hot streaks not withstanding).
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
I agree that they made a lot of errors, but ’06 team also had the same core of guys. Some of these core guys are making erros.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
2006 was three years ago. We most certainly do not have more talent or depth than the 2006 team.
Yes, KRod has been better than Wagner (so far), but that pen had far more depth. Even with a healthy JJ, we have less depth–check that pen out!
The 2006 team was FAR better at C, 1B, 2B, and RF, and maybe at LF too.
And their bench was probably better.
I mean, I am a Kool-Aid drinking optimist, but this is ridiculous.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
Since the SF series, we’ve played .500 baseball. That’s against the Giants, Dodgers, BoSox, Yanks, Phils, Pirates, Nats, and Marlins. That’s not too bad considering that we got swept against the Dodgers and Pirates. Also, we really went toe to toe against the teams like BoSox, Yanks and Phils and would have winning record if it weren’t for some errors.
But here’s my problem. If we are guaranteed only 3-4 games behind the Phillies till Reyes/Delgado/Trade Deadline, I would not make a move. But that’s not a realistic case if we only play .500 baseball. Before the SF series, I believe we were only 1-2 games behind the Phils. Now after .500 baseball for a month, we are 4 games back. So when Reyes/Delgado/TradeDeadline comes along, Mets are probably 7-8 games back. We’ll be out of the race by then. So, we need to make a move now. I repeat. WE NEED TO MAKE A MOVE NOW!! Omar listen to me. WE NEED TO MAKE A MOVE NOW!!! We cannot expect to make the playoffs with riding the injuries out. It’s not going to happen. Please make a move now.
Anyone have any news on Pagan? He would be a good addition and should replace FMart.
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
Barring an unforseen hot streak of epic proportions, I think you’re right about FMart.
sabermetrician
6/16/2009-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
We were a half game ahead after the SF series. So we’ve lost 4.5 games since then, but in fairness we’ve dropped a lot of winnable ball games.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
Yes we did. I think partly it’s being overly aggressive and partly to make up for injury losses. A big bat might relieve that pressure and errors might go away.
darknova306
6/16/2009-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
It’s not because they’re trying to make up for injuries… these errors were happening in April when we were healthy. This will continue.
Joe R
6/16/2009-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
Agreed but with who. The pickings are probably even smaller than 2 weeks ago with teams fighting back this early. I mean how many GM’s are ready to tell their fan base they are throwing the towel in! Look what happened in Pittsburgh lol The GM had to take out a newspaper article and explain why they traded their star centerfielder when they are only a few games back! Its tough for Omar..he has to be agressive what with what team?? I see Dunn as the only realistic option.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
There are plenty of teams that are out of the race. Nats, Padres, As, Orioles, DBacks and Indians. Dunn is realistic, Huff, Holliday, etc. I’m sure teams will ask for a lot, but it’s Omars job to search, navigate and negotiate for half year rental players. I’m not saying that we should give up our future, but Omar also has to realize that 8 out of 10 times these prospects fail.
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Indians are only 6 back. they arent ready to concede the years. Padres 6 back wild card. Yes the Orioles and Nats maybe Arizona. Holliday is unrealistic and not happening. Huff ehh..maybe..numbers are hit and miss. Im with you I hope Omar finds a way but its difficult this early but if Omar doesnt plan to throw away the year not is the time to strike and work some magic!! If possible lol
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
I agree. So, IMO it basically comes down to Dunn and Huff. Possible Nick Johnson. I think Dunn would be a good fit. He’s terrible defensively, but I guess his HRs can make it up. Dunn sandwiched between Beltran and Wright would make him much better. Plus Sheff can bat #6 as well (that would be a terrible defensive OF…. hmmmm….)
darknova306
6/16/2009-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
Can we really handle our defense getting even worse than it already is?
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Beltran will cover the entire OF by himself. Don’t worry.
darknova306
6/16/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
And get one another leg issue like he does every year…
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. Dunn is the difference maker we need plain and simple. he will win games by himself for us and give Wright and Beltran a breather!
darknova306
6/16/2009-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
“if it weren’t for some errors”… well those errors have happened all season and have cost us a ton of games. This should be expected to continue into the indefinite future. A power bat does little to help that. The scrubs and backups have done a commendable during the recent stretch, but that’s obviously not continuing for much longer.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
That may not be true. I think one of the reason for so many errors is they are pressing themselves. Why are they pressing themselves? Some players were playing out of position, some are trying to do too much in taking over for injured players and some are just plain brain farts. I think Jerry needs to a better job in managing these errors, but I think when injured players come back and add in a big bat, errors may go down.
charlies
6/16/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Did you know (I didn’t before I looked) that more than 20% of the errors the Mets have made this season have come from two players? Murhpy and Ramon Martinez!
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
How many has Murphy made since he was moved to 1B?
Joe R
6/16/2009-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
Well thanks to all the possible trade partners we had a week ago winning like mad, I think our only trade options are with the Nationals and maybe Orioles. I mean Colorado, who’s entire team was available the last couple of weeks are winning like crazy including 11 in a row. They are going to see what happens. Cleveland is now in the Wild card after playing great. Its rough. The only option I see now is to try and get Dunn. Its still early and with teams coming back to the race its going to be tough for Omar. Im not even worried about Johan because if he goes down for even this tough stretch ahead I would be willing to concede the season and become sellers. Look to next year at that point. He’s a bulldog and i count on him bouncing back so the big bat is still what we need. We have played .500 ball and overachieved imo the last month. I mean SF, La, Boston, Philly, Yanks and we played .500 with a chance to be even better. The question is with this schedule do you really think they can keep it up. I dont think Omar can wait and the options are limited. Dunn is what has to be the target.
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
Right now I would say only The Nats, Orioles and maybe Padres are willing to throw away the year at this point. Thats the teams Omar has to try and work his magic on!
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
For the most I think you are right. But look at what Braves did. They got a very good OF from the Pirates that no one thought was available. If Omar can get us a guy like that, who is young, talented and can play OF, I wouldn’t mind trading our top prospects.
darknova306
6/16/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
That’s an intriguing idea. Who would you have in mind?
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
Pujols… LOL.. I don’t know.. but it’s Omar’s job to find out.
stickguy
6/16/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Be realistic. Nate is a good player, and had a surprisingly good 2008 (better than his 2009 has been), but he isn’t Grady Sizemore or Pujols.
And the Braves did give up some solid prospects for him. It wasn’t a give away. And the prospects were why the Pirates did the deal (well, that and the guy waiting for CF!)
They already have Morton in the rotation, and if one of the other guys they got also reaches his potential, it ends up being a great deal for Pitt.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Would you not give up guys like Holt or possibly FMart for McLouth?
Sure, he’s not Sizemore or Pujols, but what evidence do you see in FMart that he’ll be any better than McLouth? McLouth may flourish with teams like the Mets. Kinda like what Bay has done with BoSox.
trs86
6/16/2009-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Nope. I would not give up either for McLouth.
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
And look what happened to that GM. He almost got ran out of town and the guy replacing has been hitting! lol
stickguy
6/16/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
I can’t wait until the trade deadline passes. The debate on trades is already getting tiring!
As noted though, it is hard to make a big move this early (especially without wildly overpaying, especially for a rental player). So, not much option other then tinkering, and winning as much as possible until closer to the trade deadline (or the injured start to come back).
Look at this years potential trade deadline (=/- a little) acquisitions:
Wagner, Putz, Maine, Ollie P., Reyes, Delgado.
No guarantees for course, but even if only 1/2 come back fully operational, what other team is going to get reloaded like that for the stretch run (that being the last 50-60 games)?
I’m fully on board with trying to bring in reinforcements, even if they coming from the minors (wily mo, even Evans is hitting again). But in a trade, it better either be a salary dump so we give up little in prospects but eat $$, or a “real” player that fills a hole for 2010+ (Rios, Crawford, not that they are available, but that concept)
Part of the problem aslo with the D has been bench guys playing daily, and many guys playing out of position. Yeah, a career IF will make some goofs in the OF, and a guy playing 2B, SS or 1B for the (almost) 1st time won’t be a gold glover.
ANd some of the base running and other brain farts are probably from guys trying to push a play, knowing the offense is weak, and they have to make something happen.
FInally, never having a set line up and postions also screws up the flow.
So, get whatever parts you can, decide on a regular line up, and let them play. Stay close through July, and look to steamroll through August and September. It’s not like the othe rWC contendors (or even the Phils) are rally that good, or going to get much better.
Oh, and do not trade Holt under any circumstances. Got Kazmir Part II written all over it.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Reyes is the only injured player that we can be even REMOTELY confident will return close to his former level of play.
And again, the main problem with trading Kazmir was that we got zero back for him. Zero. Had we gotten a good player or two that made a difference in 2004 or 2005—or put us over the top in 2006—that trade, while still maybe being regrettable, would not be a disaster. And yeah, I would take Kazmir back in a second, but he has been injury-prone, he is yet to win over 13 games, he has yet to post a WHIP below 1.27, or an ERA below 3.25. And he has yet to average over 6 IP per start.
He is not Nolan Ryan yet, not by a longshot.
We need help if we want to play postseason ball this year.
mrbill
6/16/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
And Reyes was not having a good year before he got hurt. I remember some sloppy plays.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Absolutely true.
And his offense was down across the board too.
But having him back would help, but he is indeed not a Manny-type savior.
And with the lineup he would be joining, he will probably be pitched around the way Wright and Beltran often are. We will need Shef to hit a LOT more homers and doubles.
mrbill
6/16/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, it would help if he’s back but when is he coming back? It might be too late. I just can’t see how this team even with Reyes and a new bat (if Omar gets it) can pull through.
I think the SR is also a problem even with Maine back.
We all know what happened with the WC option last year.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Did we disagree once or twice in the past?
My memory is fuzzy, but I heard a rumor….
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
LOL
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Either we are on Bill’s train or he is on ours…LOL
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
I seriously think that this site brings out the best in just about everyone.
I really try hard to keep my tendency for obnoxiousity under control on here, and I do a pretty good job.
Well, unless someone says something REALLY nutty, like the Phillies are soft…
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
Vicky’s you know what is soft….
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
LOL!
mrbill
6/16/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
LOL… only once.
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Lineup when Reyes returns: Reyes, Cora, Beltran, Sheff, Wright, Church, Murph/Tatis (because everyone loves BIG Tatis!!!), Santos, Pitcher.
Yes, Santos should be our everyday catcher until he proves he is nothing more than a backup. He is a better hitter than Schneider is on his best day. Take that from a guy who doesn’t squat for a living.
trs86
6/16/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Agreed but it does not have to be at the cost of Holt, Fmart or Mejia. I could handle trading Flores easier than any of those 3.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
I would trade Holt or FMart (I don’t know much about Mejia) only if we get a future back.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
I would probably trade anyone but FMart right now, and even him were it in a (probably fantasyland here) package for someone young and great like Fielder.
mrbill
6/16/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Fielder! did you see that HR last night?
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
I’m surprised the ball made it out. Thought it would unravel on it’s flight. That ball was absolutely smoked.
trs86
6/16/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Funny but I trade Fmart before I trade my 2 pitchers. We have NO pitching prospects outside these two.
trs86
6/16/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
Right now these two seem to be the real deal and could even push for next year.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
These two meaning Gee and Holt?
trs86
6/16/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
Mejia and Holt. Mejia is 19 and has already had 2 incredible starts in AA.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
True, but I guess I am evaluating it based on Holt and Mejia only having a few innings above A ball (I think)….
You are right, but I am extremely disappointed in this year, and truly am afraid of what might happen to this team if we miss the postseason again. I do not want to see Reyes, Wright or Beltran go, and we may see that if we miss October again.
trs86
6/16/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
True, but I don’t think we have to trade those guys to get the Nick Johnsons, Mark DeRosa, Aubrey Huff’s of the world.
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. The problem is the schedule and just saying “let them play” can result in 9 games back at the break. Delgado you have to consider him finished when making managerial decisions. He may come back and contribute…he may not. We need one way or another to replace his production to stay competitve this year. Murphy and Tatis have been awful. 1 HR and like 12 RBI’s is not going to cut it when you need to replace 40 and 100 rbi.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
I agree. If we can get a future back for trading our future, I’m on board. But guys like Huff and Dunn are salary dumps. It’s Omar’s job to make it happen without giving up the future. But a move has to be made.
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Dunn would be great for us.
Simply great.
Plug in 40 HR and 100 walks….that makes a big difference. And he is our instant 1B of the future.
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
What? You don’t like Ike Davis? I for one, like Ike!
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
Its so frustrating because Dunn is such a perfect fit!!! We have guys like Beltran and Wright. Many teams dont have that so the pressure isnt going to be enormous on a guy like Dunn who strikes out alot to carry the team!! His obp is good. He would have been a perfect fit for us in the beginning of the year when Omar didnt know we would have all these injuries. Thats what boggles my mind. Can you imagine with Delgado in there a guy batting 6th like Dunn, that we as a team are able to handle whatever production he would have given us without it being a complete necessity! Wow that would have been nice and still may be…IF we get him and get Delgado back!! The more I talk about it the more I am convinced this is the guy we need!!!! Omar you made a mistake with Hudson and not eating Castillo’s contract when you had a chance to correct your mistake of sighning Castillo. DOnt do it with Dunn! Yes just a few months ago we could have had him for jusr dollars and cents, no prospects but YOU didnt act! Go get him now!
trs86
6/16/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
What is there incentive to trade him?
trs86
6/16/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
He is signed reasonable for next year and the Nats actually see themselves competing next year.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
a young talent in return or a veteran reliever perhaps.
I think Parnell would definitely get it Dunn, but I would not give up Parnell.
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
There incentive is prospects like any trade with a team going no where fast.
trs86
6/16/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
But why, they will just have to go back out and sign a power hitter in the offseason. They expect to compete next year. Misguided or not.
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
How do you know what there goals are short term or long?
trs86
6/16/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
They have said it over and over.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
I agree. Dunn would be great. But would Omar pull the trigger? Or are the Nats willing to deal him? I don’t know…
trs86
6/16/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
I just don’t know why the Nats would. They would be back in the market for a power hitter this offseason and would most likely have to spend more.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
Buster Olney brings up a good point in his column. He said that the Nats have to clear up some room for Strasburg. Clearing Dunn’s payroll would definitely help.
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Im hating Murphy more and more!!! lol because if he wasnt lingering around Omar and Jerry would have never had the chance to put so much stock in him and annoint him the Golden Boy! Maybe Omar would have had no choice but to sign Dunn!!
This is all your fault Murphy!! You have ruined our season!!lol
Of course I am joking,somewhat, but the more I think of the passing on Dunn this offseason the more I am leaning towards, even with all the injuries which would usually give a GM a pass, if we dont make the postseason Omar is responsible and I am OK with him getting Fired! Of course unless he wanted him and the budget was closed…I doubt that though. It wasnt much and he could have convinced the powers that be!
trs86
6/16/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
He would have never signed Dunn to start with. Most people in baseball just don’t like him for some reason.
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
I know its weird right. He has this stigma attached to him beacuse he strikes out alot. NewsFlash: most power hitters do. His OBP is very good and with our team we wouldnt have been asking him to carry us in the beginning of the year at least lol
trs86
6/16/2009-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
I think his reputation was hurt badly by the Toronto idiot.
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
Such a shame I could shed a tear beacuse our bullpen is good this year the God DAMN problem the last 2 years and now this debactle! Ugh the anger and optimism comes and goes these days! lol
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
I think you are very right about that.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
This week is a huge week for Murphy and FMart. If they don’t produce this week, I would not be surprised if both of them are sent down to AAA (or up to Buffalo).
Does anyone have any word on Pagan?
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Yeah Fmart will be sent down after this series for sure and Manuel has admitted Murphy has been a huge let down.
There's Always '09
6/16/2009-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
My money is on if they get shipped out, it will be to both, AAA and Buffalo.
trs86
6/16/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Go get Wiggy. Take a look at his numbers over the last week.
.500 .556 1.250 1.806
The O’s would love to dump that contract. Put him at 1B and send Murphy back down.
charlies
6/16/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Good ole Ty…
Did you know that the Mets and Jose Reyes have an official cheese doodle?
trs86
6/16/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
Uhmmm. No.
Joe R
6/16/2009-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Now according to a report the problem and injury to Reyes could be from him switching From Nike cleats to Under Armour!! Are you kidding me. Supposedly his special cleat wasnt ready for the beginning of the year from Under Armour!
Its the money…the root of all evil!
Reyes you have had leg problems from day 1 stay with the company that has kept you healthy!!
Who knows!! Maybe I’m just looking for someone to blame!
Joe R
6/16/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
This is just such a shame. I know injuries are part of the game but we all know how hard especially in Baseball, look at the Yankees, it is to put together a team to make the playoffs and win it. We have been so close with this group of guys and minus a bullpen collapse the last 2 years we would have gotten in, and then who knows from there!! Now Omar fixes the pen and this happens…thats why I feel for Omar a little, but like I said earlier the non signing of Dunn makes it Ok with me if he gets canned! It was that big of a mistake with a questionable outfield and an old 1B going into the year. My point is, Im not ready to give up on this basic core of guys that HAVE delivered the last few years for us!! I know we talk of heart and what not but it was the bullpens fault. I just hope the time isnt running out on this team because for the most part, minus Castillo, I like these guys!! I mean we already know if a miracle doesnt happen and we dont win this year, Delgado is gone and our chance of winning a WS with him is gone. Thats a shame to me because he is a good guy and has produced for us! Sorry guys for some reason I just got very depressed with what has gone on here!
Kingman 26
6/16/2009-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
I am with you Joe.
I am extremely disappointed in 2009 so far.
And while injuries have surely been the main culprit without a doubt, not getting Dunn or Abreu, combined with how our baserunning and fielding have severely regressed from the last few years, have made the injury problem worse.
Not giving up hope yet, but we need to play crisper and we need another bat.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/16/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Agreed.