“What I need to do is really refresh the bullpen. I probably, to a fault, use them too much. I have to do all I can to refresh them and that will help. What I have to do is trust the other people I have down there.â€-Jerry Manuel 6/21/09
Jerry…Jerry…Jerry. Following in your predecessors footsteps it seems with the handling of the bullpen these days. Yesterday was the first day he acknowledged that the bullpen may be tiring out already due to overuse. He said he needs to start trusting other guys out there, Jerry should already know that the bullpen collapses of the last two years cost his predecessor his job…HE WAS SITTING RIGHT NEXT TO HIM. Now its not about capitalizing on the Phillies or anything like that (the Phills have their issues that are keeping them from running away with the division) but more for the moral of the team. I know people say the players at some point have to perform, but in my opinion a managers job along with winning games is putting his players in the best position possible to get the best out of them. I have done some research on this bullpen and some of the results are telling(courtesy of ESPN).
Bullpen Rank in MLB
#23(a few weeks ago, we were #2)
Bullpen Stats(Games and Innings Pitched) and Projections
Pedro Feliciano
Games: 40
Innings Pitched: 30
Projected: 97 Games/ 73 Innings Pitched
Current Rank in NL 2009(Appearances): #1
Days Rest Stats
0: 4.50 Era/ 18 Games/ 12.0 IP/ .255 Avg
1: 0 Era/ 11 Games/ 8.2 IP/ .074 Avg
2: 1.50 Era/ 7 Games/ 6.0 IP/ .182 Avg
3-5: 0 Era/ 3 Games/ 2.2 IP/ .111
Bobby Parnell
Games: 36
Innings Pitched: 27
Projected: 87 Games/ 65 Innings Pitched
Current Rank in NL 2009(Appearances): #2
Days Rest Stats
0: 9.72 Era/ 12 Games/ 8.1 IP/ .442 Avg
1: 2.61 Era/ 13 Games/ 10.1 IP/ .270 Avg
2: 2.70 Era/ 5 Games/ 3.1 IP/ .286 Avg
3-5: 4.50 Era/ 5 Games/ 4 IP/ .375 Avg
Francisco Rodriguez
Games: 33
Innings Pitched: 32.2 (18 Saves)
Projected: 80 Games/ 80 Innings Pitched (44 Saves)
Current Rank in NL2009(Appearances): #18
Sean Green
Games: 33
Innings Pitched: 32
Projected: 80 Games/ 77 Innings Pitched
Current Rank in NL2009(Appearances): #21
Days Rest Stats
0: 5.19 Era/ 9 Games/ 8.2 IP/ .188 Avg
1: 3.75 Era/ 12 Games/ 12 IP/ .255 Avg
2: 0 Era/ 4 Games/ 4.1 IP/ .0 Avg
3-5: 9.53 Era/ 4 Games/ 5.2 IP/ .462 Avg
Brian Stokes
Games: 24
Innings Pitched: 26
Projected: 58 Games/ 63 Innings Pitched
Current Rank in NL2009(Appearances): #72
Days Rest Stats
0: 0 Era/ 6 Games/ 4.2 IP/ .067 Avg
1: 1.23 Era/ 7 Games/ 7.1 IP/ .241 Avg
2: 0 Era/ 4 Games/ 4.2 IP/ .118 Avg
3-5: 10.39 Era/ 4 Games/ 4.1 IP/ .500 Avg
6+: 12.00 Era/ 2 Games/ 3.0 IP/ .500 Avg
Ken Takahashi
Games: 15
Innings Pitched: 18
Projected: 36 Games/ 44 Innings Pitched
Current Rank in NL2009(Appearances): #105
Days Rest Stats
0: 0 Era/ 1 Games/ 2.0 IP/ .143 Avg
1: 5.40 Era/ 5 Games/ 5 IP/ .429 Avg
2: 0 Era/ 2 Games/ 2 IP/ .167 Avg
3-5: 5.06 Era/ 5 Games/ 5.1 IP/ .167 Avg
6+: 0 Era/ 1 Games/ 1 IP/ .250 Avg
Another note you will find interesting
JJ Putz ranks # 47(top 50!) in NL appearances so far in 2009 and he has been injured for weeks!
Under Willie Randolph for 2008/2007 NL appearances ranking
Pedro Feliciano-#1 2008/ #11 2007
Joe Smith-#3 2008
Aaron Heilman-#7 2008/ #5 2007
Scott Schoenwies-#20 2008/ #30 2007
Duaner Sanchez-#43 2008
Billy Wagner-#40 2007
Needless to say Jerry…please spread the work or we will meet the same fate that has plagued us for two years now. Dont wait for September to fix a problem and it is too late. We have been through enough the last two years, please dont continue to make mistakes like this one. The “I told you so” line will do little to comfort us if we manage to lose out on the post season due to the same issue from the last two years. I know Jerry doesn’t like stats but hopefully he can make an exception.
42 comments
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-5:37pm at 5:37 pm (UTC -4)
I think this episode is just the latest in a series which suggests IMO that neither guy, Randolph or Manuel, paid any attention whatsoever to the other guy and what he was saying or doing.
dirtysanchez
6/22/2009-5:43pm at 5:43 pm (UTC -4)
Its going to be more important than ever that he does this by the book and give people some time to recover…You have been a longer fan than i have grave…can you even remember a time when all this talent was injured at the same time like this?
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-5:47pm at 5:47 pm (UTC -4)
No, but to be fair I was living in Boston from 1987-2006, and I only got cable in 2003 and internet access in 2005, so prior to that I was only in touch with the team through box scores in USA Today. I have noticed in other comments that guys bring up 1987 as being bad that way.
dirtysanchez
6/22/2009-5:52pm at 5:52 pm (UTC -4)
i talked to my dad about 87. He said that there were alot of injuries but they were not all at the same time like this year
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-6:02pm at 6:02 pm (UTC -4)
We also had a much better and far deeper team in 87, and only pitchers–and primarily starters–were affected. Not starters, relievers, and core players like this year. I am not sure any everyday guys were hurt…a quick look shows that Keith, HoJo, McReynolds, and Straw all played 150+ games, Backman/Teufel had 680+ PA, and Lenny/Mookie had 980+.
And we were defending champs, and we had a great manager, not a frigin buffoon.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:05pm at 6:05 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t recall injuries being that much a factor in ’87. Kingman is right that it was primarily starters, i.e. Ojeda and to a lesser degree Gooden, who were injured. The Mets got capable replacement innings out of guys like John Mitchell, David Cone and some starts from Terry Leach.
They won 92 games and I don’t think it is fair to ever expect much more than that from a team. The Cards were simply better.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-6:07pm at 6:07 pm (UTC -4)
You were on the field (often at 2 positions simultaneously) so you should know.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:11pm at 6:11 pm (UTC -4)
As you can see below, it was my right handed platoon partners who really stole the show.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:06pm at 6:06 pm (UTC -4)
Man, oh man, was Timmy Teufel good in 1987. And ’87 was the breakout season for Hojo.
What a fun team and what a great period in Mets history.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-6:10pm at 6:10 pm (UTC -4)
Teufel was amazing…one of my favorites of those teams…it still hurts when that damn grounder goes through his legs in Game 1 in 86 when I see it…
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:12pm at 6:12 pm (UTC -4)
I hear you. Felt terrible for him. He was such a good teammate, always ready to drop the gloves along side Ray Knight in ’86 and then assumed the role of tough guy/batter’s box dancer afterward.
I hope he gets his shot to manage int he majors.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-6:14pm at 6:14 pm (UTC -4)
Totally agree about Tim T.
Personally, I would love to see him manage in the majors….tonight…in Queens….
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:19pm at 6:19 pm (UTC -4)
88 was a strange season because the team didn’t hit nearly as well as in 87. But the pitching was absurdly good. Gooden and Darling had the lowest ERAs among the starters of 3.19 and 3.25 in 248 and 240 innings, respectively. Wow.
Cone would have been the Cy Young winner easily, if not for Hershiser ridiculous consecutive scoreless inning streak.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:10pm at 6:10 pm (UTC -4)
Darryl was on a different planet that season: 284/398/583/981 with 36 SBs (97 BB and 122K)… a truly great season.
The right handed half of the 2B/CF platoons, Wilson (.299 .359 .455) and Teufel (.308 .398 .545) were fantastic. Two great players on the bench, Magadan (318 .386 .443) and Mazzilli (306 .399 .460) made for a very deep team. And Barry Lyons was probably better than a breaking down Gary Carter that season.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-5:59pm at 5:59 pm (UTC -4)
These numbers display precisely how the bullpen has been mismanaged. Most relief pitchers pitch best if they pitch regularly, but with adequate rest.
Here, it is clear that Parnell and Feliciano would thrive if pitching less and that Green and Stokes would thrive by pitching more frequently.
Look how good Feliciano has pitched this season and imagine how effective he would be if he hadn’t pitched on consecutive days so frequently.
of course, it is impossible not to have a guy, especially Feliciano, not pitch on consecutive days but an effort has to be made to do so.
Parnell’s workload could easily be reduced by giving Stokes more work — and the numbers show each would be more effective pitching in moderation.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-6:05pm at 6:05 pm (UTC -4)
Not to get Kingman all riled up about the manager again, but this does point to Jerry relying too much on gut and not enough on numbers, a self-admitted trait of his, because if he gave even mild credence to numbers he’d not pitch Feliciano 6 days in a fargin row.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-6:08pm at 6:08 pm (UTC -4)
I am done pining for Jerry to be gone, as it clearly riles up other folks on here, so please don’t worry about me getting riled up anymore.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-6:11pm at 6:11 pm (UTC -4)
Aw c’mon, when people get riled up is when things get fun in here. I wrote it that way precisely TO get you riled up. The way this season is currently unfolding it may be that all the fun we have is pushing each other’s buttons. 8)
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-6:12pm at 6:12 pm (UTC -4)
Gotcha!
Sorry, rough day at work, crazy week ahead…..
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-6:15pm at 6:15 pm (UTC -4)
All is forgiven. But I’m expecting a major upswing in pining by the All-Star break!
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-6:29pm at 6:29 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!
Not to worry my esteemed friend—Wanny mentioning Tim Teufel right above already got me thinking about our next manager again!!
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:13pm at 6:13 pm (UTC -4)
I think that if the Mets were not still paying Randolph this season that Manuel would be on a much shorter leash.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-6:16pm at 6:16 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, Kong inspired me to look that up today. I think it was 2.25 mil, minus whatever Milwaukee is paying him (I couldn’t find that). I was shocked to see how much they gave Willie, considering how they lowball managers under this regime.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:20pm at 6:20 pm (UTC -4)
Well, they won’t get Bobby V. next year with a low ball offer for two reasons: 1. his rate has gone up, and; 2. they’ll be eating a hefty plate of crow by crawling back to him.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-6:23pm at 6:23 pm (UTC -4)
I’m replying to you Wanny just doing it here so it doesn’t get too narrow. I have tried to give some thought to just the general idea of a type of manager that Omar would choose for his 3rd. Willie was the rookie who was given a chance after many refused to do so, and Jerry was the insider with previous experience. I guess the next guy will have to not be quite either one of those things, if that makes any sense.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:26pm at 6:26 pm (UTC -4)
I think, like Bobby, the next manager would have to be an experienced manager from outside the current organization, a heavy hitter whose reputation would demand more influence on personnel decisions than the last couple. That’s why Omar will hang on to Manuel for as long as the Wilpons will let him.
That’s a long winded way of agreeing with you.
If not Bobby, Buck Showalter?
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-6:31pm at 6:31 pm (UTC -4)
1. Buck Showalter
2. Bobby V
3. Davey J.??
4. Timmy T
5. The Ghost of Gil Hodges…he would come cheap….
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-6:33pm at 6:33 pm (UTC -4)
I realize the circumstances are different in many respects, but after watching the way the WBC unfolded I’m not excited about bringing Davey back. I think whoever the next Met manager is he will not be a former Met manager.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:38pm at 6:38 pm (UTC -4)
Some out of the box ideas, however unlikely, might be Don Mattingly, Rudy Jaramillo, Larry Bowa or Bob Brenly.
I would be intrigued by the latter two, and obviously, by Showalter and Valentine.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-6:31pm at 6:31 pm (UTC -4)
Bucky Show is the name Kingman and I were bandying about the other day. It seems he makes sense on many levels. I was surprised by his age (53), I thought he’d be older now.
My only reservation is that he has twice been a guy who, a year after he was gone, the team won a WS. Would the Mets only get to that point on his successor too? Who would that be and how long would it take to get there? Or would the Mets finally be “his” World Series. I’d of course hope for the latter.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:34pm at 6:34 pm (UTC -4)
Buck would change the perceived attidude/”fundies” problem in a heartbeat.
The question is, would he go somewhere with a strong personality GM like Omar?
More importantly, would/should Omar even get to hire another manager?
Although I think Omar has done a better job than he gets credit for, I think that if the manager has to go, so does he…
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-6:36pm at 6:36 pm (UTC -4)
Regarding your last paragraph specifically, I agree, but I’m pretty sure Omar is in the 1st of a 4 year deal, so he’s probably not going this offseason, which I guess brings us around to the idea the Manuel isn’t either.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:39pm at 6:39 pm (UTC -4)
If that’s the case, then I tend to agree.
What do you think of Brenly, Bowa, Mattingly (highly unlikely) or Jaramillo? The former two both have experience, one a big winner, and the other a guy who would kick some arses and demand the fundies.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-6:40pm at 6:40 pm (UTC -4)
Tough to say that the Yanks or DBacks would not have won with Buck had he stayed…both were rising teams, and Schilling and Johnson might still have led the DBacks to a title, and the Yanks were ready to win.
In Texas Buck was apparently overbearing, but there are a LOT of reasons why the Rangers are the ONLY MLB team to have never won one postseason series.
Buck left NY due to disagreements with George, and it might have been Buck with four titles had he and Georgie worked it out.
My number one choice; as Wanny says, the fundie issues go bye-bye with Buck, which would mean at least another win or two this year. So far.
Look at the improvements in Buck’s teams from year one to year two….
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-6:43pm at 6:43 pm (UTC -4)
Sadly I can’t recall Brenly at all as a manager to have any idea of his style.
I love the Jaramillo idea, and it can be pitched to the owners this way: He’ll be both manager and hitting coach, so you can fire two guys and replace them with one!
I recall him being rumored when Willie ultimately got the job.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-6:42pm at 6:42 pm (UTC -4)
Ray Knight?
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-6:44pm at 6:44 pm (UTC -4)
When I recently wrote a “If Not Jerry, Who?” piece here, Ray was considered but ultimately brushed aside because he once called a sac bunt with 2 outs, then fined himself $250.
oleosmirf
6/22/2009-6:43pm at 6:43 pm (UTC -4)
the problem is other than Green, Rodriguez and Feliciano the other options pretty much stink. Stokes is decent and Parnell was good but now Parnell cant get anyone out…
oleosmirf
6/22/2009-6:32pm at 6:32 pm (UTC -4)
all i know is that if Ollie comes back we better pray that Feliciano Parnell and Green’s arms dont fall off.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-6:34pm at 6:34 pm (UTC -4)
By some (perhaps dubious) reports, Ollie might be helping those guys out in the bullpen.
oleosmirf
6/22/2009-6:36pm at 6:36 pm (UTC -4)
we already got rid of Heilman. the last thing we need is another choke artist in the pen…
stickguy
6/22/2009-8:27pm at 8:27 pm (UTC -4)
you are forgetting the other available experienced guy.
Manny Acta (when the inevitable happens!)
Would it really surprise you?