“Amazing strength, amazing power – he (Ron Swoboda) can grind the dust out of the bat. He will be great, super even wonderful. Now, if he can only learn to catch a fly ball.” Casey Stengel
Here’s what you missed on Saturday, June 20, 2009:
- Morning Open Thread by CaseStreet
- EXTRA!! EXTRA!! TRDMB Front Page Vol. 5 by trs86
- This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty 6/20/09 by rustyjr
- Man Up Awards For Friday Night by dirtysanchez
- Gameday Weather 6-20-09 by prismo
- Draft And Follow 6-20-09 by GravediggerHebner
- Game Thread: Mets (34-31) vs Rays (35-34) Game to resume at 7:15pm by dirtysanchez
- Breaking News: Beltran to have MRI Soon by mrose
- Post Game: Rays Thrive In Water by GravediggerHebner
Here’s what you missed on Sunday, June 21, 2009:
- EXTRA!! EXTRA!! TRDMB Front Page Vol. 6 by trs86
- This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty 6/21/09 by rustyjr
- Deadliest Warrior Pics, Bisons vs Knights by trs86
- Gameday Weather 6-21-09 by prismo
- Sunday Met History Opinion: Gil, Yogi, and Davey by Kingman26
- Game Thread: Mets (34-32) vs Rays (36-34) AND WE ARE BACK by dirtysanchez
- Post Game: Offense Explodes, Pitching Implodes by GravediggerHebner
- “They call him Rocky†my interview with Ron Swoboda by rustyjr
You got something to say? Say it here!
160 comments
darknova306
6/22/2009-7:12am at 7:12 am (UTC -4)
Was out of town over the weekend, so I missed the Rays series. Guess that was a good thing. Ugh. Way to drop 2 of 3 in four straight series, guys. At least Johan (apparently) is back to his old self, even if it means his old run support is back.
Is anyone else extremely worried about Beltran’s MRI…? That could be the final death-knell for the season.
prismo
6/22/2009-7:40am at 7:40 am (UTC -4)
“That could be the final death-knell for the season.”
I’m sure people said that when Delgado…Reyes…Putz…Maine went down, but somehow (*cough* Phillies sucking *cough*) the team has managed to stay in the hunt.
darknova306
6/22/2009-7:53am at 7:53 am (UTC -4)
I just meant that other people will start realizing how done the season is if he goes down. I’ve been calling the season over for weeks, as you’ve seen…
The Phillies aren’t as bad as this 6-game losing streak. You can’t rely on the other team, you have to take care of your own business… something we fail at. This team has way too many holes to fill and way too few resources to fill them.
Get rid of Omar and bring in someone who can rebuild a team properly…
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
So during the Yanks-Marlins game, a Yank fan friend of mine said “this Josh Johnson is some pitcher. I’d like to see him in pinstripes in a few years.”
My response: “I’d like to see their GM in Queens in a few years.”
It’s the first time I have said I wanted to replace Minaya. I think it’s obvious this team needs new blood. As hard as I find it to blame this season so far on Omar, a major change has to be made. Look at what firing a manager did for the Rockies. I think Omar’s last stand will be firing this whole coaching staff and finding replacements. Then we’ll look at Minaya’s job on the line.
prismo
6/22/2009-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
I think Dan Warthen has done a fine job.
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
Have to agree about Dan Warthen. The only thing I would tell him is to put a sock in it sometimes. Don’t come out and talk smack about your starting pitchers. Especially your ace.
udontmesswthejohan
6/22/2009-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
So during the Yanks-Marlins game, a Yank fan friend of mine said “this Josh Johnson is some pitcher.
Funny, I had a similar convo with a friend of mine about Lannan on the Nats. We were talking about their rotation, might have a chance to be pretty decent in a year or so with Lannan, J. Zimmerman, and the kid from SD State if he pans out.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Don’t discount Ross Detwiler either.
metsfan4decades
6/22/2009-7:40am at 7:40 am (UTC -4)
Count me as one of those worried about Beltran and his knee. What gets me is he already had an MRI a couple of weeks ago and they said it was only a bone bruise that would heal quick enough w/o needed DL time. So…another MRI scheduled, which is fine, but if they come up with a different diagnosis now, but why then can’t these diagnosis come up right the first time????
I can see missing one, once in a while. But man, it’s seems to be the norm, rather than the exception, going back to Wagner’s last August…..
darknova306
6/22/2009-7:47am at 7:47 am (UTC -4)
I’m at a total loss regarding our medical staff. Maybe the whole staff is a bunch of Philly fans…
prismo
6/22/2009-7:55am at 7:55 am (UTC -4)
I haven’t seen Mr.Met’s kids in a few years – maybe they were hired as the team’s medical staff?
udontmesswthejohan
6/22/2009-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
“So…another MRI scheduled, which is fine, but if they come up with a different diagnosis now, but why then can’t these diagnosis come up right the first time????”
Just playing devil’s advocate here, and I’m no doctor, but maybe the injury isn’t evident immediately and becomes more obvious over time.
I know everyone is frustrated about the injuries, but don’t they have a contract with a top hospital here in the city. I mean, I don’t think the quality of the doctors is the issue.
metsfan4decades
6/22/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I’m just venting. I hardly think the doctor’s are incompetent.
Maybe with us ‘regular’ folks, since we don’t run to have an MRI at the first sign of pain, by the time we do, problems are easier to diagnose so more often than not it’s identified correctly. With these ball players, they feel something is wrong and with the investment, they’re having these tests way sooner than we would.
Just a guess on my part….
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-8:54am at 8:54 am (UTC -4)
On a happy note, we still have a better record than the Natinals.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/22/2009-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
Last time we played the Cards…. uh…..
This is going to be a fun week.
Joe R
6/22/2009-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
Omar hasnt done a bad job. Yes some moves he should have pulled the trigger on but he basically made the Playoffs 3 years in a row. I mean we are talking epic collapses the last 2 years that the bullpen completely fell apart. These guys did not perform at all. At the major league level you expect these guys to be able to get outs and these guys werent known to be bums at the time. Omar is not the problem yet. If he did get fired I wouldnt be upset and the fact he didnt sign Dunn, with a shaky outfield and an aging first basemen, would be justification enough for me. Horrible move.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
“Yes some moves he should have pulled the trigger on but he basically made the Playoffs 3 years in a row.”
Thats like saying Hey, last year we were the best team in baseball from the 1st – 7th inning!
DOnt mean to come off like a pric k but Im just frustrated.
Joe R
6/22/2009-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
No its really not. We were all and that includes the manager, Omar, coaches,the Pope, etc watching in utter disbelief! You couldnt imagine how bad those collapses were in your wildest dreams. If Omar decided to sabotage the team and get the worst relievers in history they probably would have done better! Listen Omar could have made some deadline moves if they were available but I like the team he has given us the last 3 years. The bullpen simply blew the last 2 years simple and plain. They are the only ones to blame. Not the offense not Glavine’s performance, not hitting the last week or so, etc this team did everything to win the division and give us a comfortable lead. Bullpen blew it
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
Heading to tonight’s game. Hope they can win one for Case!
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
What’s happening to Bobby P?
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/22/2009-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
Hitters seem to have figured him out. Warthen needs to help him with a new game plan.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Hitters def. figured him out. I dont think he has an out-pitch.
darknova306
6/22/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
In all fairness, as Wanny likes to point out, Parnell has been sporting a pretty ugly WHIP most of the year. When all you throw is fastballs, albeit 98MPH fastballs, you’ll get hit… hard. It was only a matter of time before the league caught up with that heater and started driving it all over the place. He desperately needs to develop some quality secondary pitches if he’s going to succeed.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
Agreed 100%. He is this year’s Joe Smith. Unhittable for a while, then down to Earth in ugly fashion.
Joe R
6/22/2009-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
Agreed but i love his attitude and post game remarks. For example I havent heard a line this great in years. When asked if Jerry owes him some rest and time off Parnell’s answer was NO I OWE JERRY SOME OUTS! Gotta love that! Thats great…but parnell get some outs now lol
darknova306
6/22/2009-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
I missed that quote. I like it!
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
That is a great quote.
In addition to not having a second pitch he can throw consistently for strikes (his slider moves… but not over the plate), his location has been pretty bad lately. On the Upton HR yesterday, he put that 97 MPH belt high over the middle.
I love the graphic on SNY that tracks the catcher’s target and the location of the pitch. The target was down and away — the pitch fat over the middle.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/22/2009-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
He does have a decent slider that he throws once in awhile. I think that can be his 2nd pitch. But then he’ll have to locate his FB much better.
darknova306
6/22/2009-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
Well, I don’t think I’ve seen enough of that slider to see if he can consistently throw it for strikes or swinging misses. Good point on the fastball, too, he’s definitely got to work on command. I hope he pulls it together sooner rather than later.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
We are really not “staying in the hunt”. We are one game over .500, we are falling farther out of the WC race, and the Phils will surely start winning again soon. And they will probably go out and get a pitcher as they did with Blanton last year.
The Phils will not continue playing this poorly, and there are now four teams ahead of us in the WC race. The Marlins have almost caught us, and we play every day this week against the Cards and the Yankees.
I sincerely hope we can win just one for the Case!
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Brock, we are on the same page like like Dirk and Reed. The last couple wks all Ive been hearing (reading) is “Oh we’ll be ok. Just gotta hang on etc etc etc..” WELL, LOOK AT US NOW! 1 game above .500! We have already lost FIVE series this month alone! We are not going to “stay a .500 team until Delgado & Reyes get back”. Horrible mentality to have Omar!!! YOu are putting too much faith in a those 2 guys and there is a real possiblity that they wont contribute at all or get hurt again in the process. We’re sinking…sinking…sinking. We need a bat NOW to balance this flux lineup or we’ll be talking Giants football in August.
udontmesswthejohan
6/22/2009-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
So what is the alternative????
Trade away the farm in the hopes of making the playoffs and then getting ousted in the first or second round. Without Reyes and Delgado, this team is not a WS contender. You can’t mortgage the future for a simple playoff run.
Try and keep your head above .500, get back some of your regulars and see what happens. Otherwise, stand pat and withdraw for 2010 Spring offensive.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
Three years in a row of “wait till next year?”
I fully understand the tremendous effect of the injuries, but I still say that this season can be salvaged, and with a better manager who is respected and drills fundamentals, this team would easily have 1–2 more wins this year. AND the last two years.
Mediocre managing is killing this franchise.
We need better play from the guys we have, and Jerry is clearly not the man to provide that.
Firing Jerry and hiring Davey Johnson or Buck Showalter or someone better would cost money, but not nearly as much as Holliday or Lee, etc.
A new manager is the only way to even try to make a dramatic change this year.
stickguy
6/22/2009-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
You aren’t getting the new manager. I would be shocked if that happened.
So Johans plan is actually the best one. RUn with what you got, and don’t mortgage any more of the future in a sham playoff run.
I am all for picking up a salary dump or two (for non-prospects). But not trading the few top guys for a rental.
THey have a lot of holes to fill anyway for 2010. no need to make more, and make it harder to fill.
udontmesswthejohan
6/22/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
brock, I’m not crazy about Jerry either, but I agree with Stick, that there is no way they are replacing him…especially with all of te injuries.
Also, as Stick points out, there are holes galore on these team, which one do you even try to fix first. Offense, SP…they don’t have nearly enough prospects to address all of these needs. It sucks I know, but we may have to be patient for at least one mor year.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
I agree about the injuries and the holes…that is why I think a new leader is truly the ONLY way we are going to even possibly see a significant improvement this year.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
After last yrs circus with Willie, Manuel isnt going anywhere.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
I can still dream can’t I Chest??
I am sick of these managers dealing with all of these evil forces….
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, Manuel’s not going anywhere. I don’t think a formula for success is revolving door managers.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Im with you, Brock.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
As much as Manuel stinks (and at least he’s admitted how poorly he uses his bullpen, echoing what we’ve been saying here all season that he needs to use Stokes, et. al. more frequently instead of trotting out three guys over and over), there’s no way the Wilpons will pay three managers this year.
trs86
6/22/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Kingman, you might as well be on here saying your life would be better with a million dollars. It’s nice to talk about but it’s just not going to happen.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
You are right.
And now that you mention it, my life WOULD be better with a million dollars.
But, I am not sure how pining for Jerry to be gone is any more or less useless than all of the talk about how we are “still in the hunt” as we lose every series, and fall behind a new team every day, with the Marlins next in line…
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
I hope this isn’t too harsh but IMO all signs point to – Manuel will not be fired mid season, while merely most signs point to – this team won’t make the post season. Therefore, the pining for it IMO is more useless.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Not too harsh at all. I always respect your opinion and the respectful way you present it.
I just wish I could think of something else which could help this team without mortgaging the future in terms of either prospects or dollars.
I get the message TRS and Grave….
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Im not playing a video game here. Im not trying to trade for Manny or A-Rod. Nick Johnson or Aubrey Huff will not cost the farm. Give me a break. Ive written a couple posts on that.
stickguy
6/22/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
maybe not at the deadline, but from reports, right now the Nats or Os want the farm for them.
Frankly, we need the player more than the other team needs 2 extra weeks of salary relief.
Huff for Dylan Owen? Do it now.
F Mart + Neise for Nick Johnson? Pass. Besides, if Murphy is hitting again, not that much of an upgrade (To NJ)
trs86
6/22/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Right now Nick Johnson, Aubrey Huff, and Mark DeRosa all start with Parnell AND. If it’s not Parnell then you are sending Holt or Mejia. We are just not deep enough to trade one of those guys for a rental.
Damn Qns, don’t you think if Omar could get them for Kunz and Bostick he already would have?
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
From what Ive read, Minaya’s gameplan is to wait and see “HOPING to stay around .500(we’ve been sinking steadily since then losing 5 series so far this month) and HOPING Delgado and Reyes”. Ive actually been a Minaya supporter and no one can say that Ive ever been one one of those “Fiya Minaya” characters but IMO, he’s making a big mistake idling like this.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Check that, I AM a Minaya supporter.
trs86
6/22/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Because the Indians ask for Parnell AND for DeRosa. What do you think the price of all the guys better than DeRosa would be?
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Is that a fact that they wanted Parnell and someone else? I didnt read that. I did hear though, that the Indians asking price was a tad high.
udontmesswthejohan
6/22/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
I missed the posts, but do you really think that either Nick Johnson or Aubrey Huff is really the answer. Yes, they are having decent years and they would be upgrades, but they are not the difference b/w making the playoffs or not IMO.
There are just too many holes on this team right now. some as a result of injuries, and some as a result of poor planning. In any event, it’s going to be tough to make the post season no matter what they do unless people start getting healthy right quick…and if Beltran is any indication, that isn’t about to happen.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
Ofcourse they’re not Manny or CC and basically carry a team all by himself, but I think a guy like NJ or Huff will bring BALANCE to this team.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Damn, that made no sense. What I meant to say is that I dont think Huff or NJ can carry a team into the playoffs like Manny and CC. Theyre on totally different plateaus but they can bring some balance.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
Are these lizard? No, they’re Italian….I’m gonna f*%#&^% buy these….
My friend, I totally agree….I used to be among the most steadfast optimists, but I fail to see how anyone can look at the last two weeks and be even remotely positive. I love this team, I always will, I will continue to watch, but we are 2 weeks into the 5 week hell schedule, and we have played four series and lost them all 2-1.
The Marlins will pass us soon, and hopefully that will spur management into action before this season is REALLY gone.
To me, I think that Ibanez signing so quickly with Philly might become something we might see more of if we really tank it this year. Three years in a row out of the playoffs with all this payroll? Who is going to want to come here?
I am kind of surprised that we have done nothing yet, as Evans and Switzer and Figgy and Exxon Valdez ain’t the answers.
And who even knows what Delgado will be capable of when he returns?
stickguy
6/22/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
FAs will always go where the money is, and NY still has allure for a lot of them.
Fans think it is the end of the world missing the playoffs on day 162 2 years running.
Plyers look at it as a team always in contention.
Or do you honestly think they wil ltake less $$ from the Pirates just to avaoid the stench of the Mets?
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
Ibanez is from NY and clearly had zero interest in coming here.
stickguy
6/22/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
Did he ever say that?
My guess? His agent was savvy enough to read the tea leaves about the pending collapse of the FA market, and when the Phils gave him the 3/30 offer (which he probably, and rightly, knew Omar would never do), he jumped all over it before it got pulled.
I have to imagine if Omar offered up 3/27, and the phils a 1 year deal, he would currently be on the Mets DL all-start team!
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
“Are these lizard? No, they’re Italian….I’m gonna f*%#&^% buy these….”
(Scottie stares awkwardly at the mirror… but his silk shirt made by an Italian Design Artist, just wont fit)
Joe R
6/22/2009-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
I agree but Im so upset. Philly is doing everything for us to help. Cant score for Johan we lose. Score a bunch for Pelfrey we dont pitch…We lose!! What kills me is the fact I know outsiders will say its great we are only 2 back with the injuries but we fans who watch the game know simply just counting Castillo’s drop and Church’s missed bag should be tied for 1st. And we all know there are many more. Its just such a shame!! I know they say bad teams find a way to lose but those were utterly bizarre!!
We all would be jumping for joy, at least i would, if with all that has gone on this year we were tied for 1st right now. At least that would buy as more time and falling 5-6 back would be closer to players com,ing back off DL. Now with the Philly’s playing like crap they are a win streak away from knocking us to 8 back! We dont cash in on golden oppurtunities!!!
Sorry…just venting but if we can just hold on for a bit, and Philly is trying to help us, we would be in great shape to make a push!!! but we arent taking ADVANTAGE!!!
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
Dont forget “Murphys Flaw” on Easter Sunday.
trs86
6/22/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
What the hell do you want him to do? Trade the farm for a rental and then STILL lose this year?
stickguy
6/22/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
TRS, you know that is my worst nightmare!
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
Read what I wrote above. Im not asking for freakin A-Rod. Trading for a Nick Johnson or Aubrey Huff will not cost the farm. Please.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Nick Johnson has been worse over the last 30 days than Adam LaRoche. LaRoche offers more extra base power, and a better glove at 1B. Much rather get LaRoche for his patented 2nd half upswing than Johnson for his patented lack of power and injury waiting to happen.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
NJ is hitting .381 with a .552 OBP over the last 7 days.
I wouldnt complain if we managed to pull NJ from Wash. but Id much rather Huff based on the history of injuries.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
On the last 7 days you’ve got me.
But over the last 30 days:
LaRoche 8 doubles 2 HR 12 RBI .313 BA .426 OBP
Johnson 7 doubles 1 HR 8 RBI .297 BA .423 OBP
Nick Johnson has hit more than 15 HR once (23), La Roche has 4 seasons of 20 or more.
Your serve
trs86
6/22/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
If we trade ANY of Parnell, Holt, Mejia, Flores, Fmart for a rental then Omar SHOULD be fired. If he holds on to those guys and we lose, we lose. We just are not deep enough to trade those guys.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Well then I guess the risk Milwaukee and LA took last yr was such a gutsy move. Man, those GMs got brass balls to pull off those moves!
Sarcasm aside, the Dodgers and Brewers gave up far more for Manny and CC then we would have to give up for a Huff or NJ. Ofcourse theres no guarantee we’ll be playing in mid October but atleast we gave it a shot and you know what, it didnt cost the damn farm.
trs86
6/22/2009-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
The Brewers had not trade 11 players to get Santana and Putz.
trs86
6/22/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
It’s too early for those teams to take crap Qns. And both of those teams were deeper in the farm so they could make those deals. Again, we traded 11 players for 4.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
It wasnt too early for the Pirates.
trs86
6/22/2009-3:32pm at 3:32 pm (UTC -4)
I know I am late, bball camp, however the Pirates did not take crap for Nate. We would have have to given up Fmart and Niese to match that.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
No, that is not what I want.
We have zero power over their decision making, but I still say that I do NOT want to trade the farm, or take on an insane contract like Lee’s.
Send Jerry home with Willie, lose a few million, and bring in Showalter to batten down the hatches on this sloppy, loose organization, which is careening down the mountain with no breaks towards a third straight year of disappointment.
A new voice is the only way to possibly make a real change without mortgaging the future or taking on a nutty contract.
trs86
6/22/2009-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Brock please just drop the firing of Manuel. It’s NOT happening. It’s not going to happen. Not considering the injuries, not considering the way the firing of Willie was handled. Besides that, how many managers that take over during the season make the playoffs AND make it through the next year?
It sucks but we gotta deal with it.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
Consider it dropped.
stickguy
6/22/2009-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
People are missing the point about “staying a .500 team”. They aren’t a .500 team. They are now more like a .333-.400 team at best. Hence why they have dropped to 1 gave over. Unless the logis was to only pee away enough games to only drop to .500 on the season?
Right now, I would not be at all surprised if the best they could do for the remainder of the season was 1-3 games over .500, putting them at ~84 wins.
And that includes any bounce from the walking wounded coming back (if they do, and if they are productive). Bacially assuming they drop below .500 for a while, and any “big finish” will just get them a little above.
I also don’t expect the Phils to keep playing this badly, but if they do, look for Florida to pass them anyway (and possibly the Braves)
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
Agreed completely, and what we need is for Omar to hire any and every scout in the Marlin organization who is not under contract for next year.
prismo
6/22/2009-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
One of the major problems with the future of our minor league system is that if the Mets keep signing so many big-name free agents, they’ll keep losing their early round draft picks. Unfortunately even the Marlins scouts can’t steal back first round picks.
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
If the team had 2-1 in the past four series, would everyone have expected them to continue playing like that (winning most series”?
Then, is it fair to expect the team to continue losing every series?
Right now, the team is a .500 team. We’ve had a few losses due to the bullpen. Mostly, though, the pitching and hitting have been decent.
I may be alone here, but I firmly believe the Mets can stay at .500 till the trade deadline.
BTW, I’m very excited to see Royalty tonight. I was all for Beltran4MVP, but you can’t deny what has been a great season for the King.
stickguy
6/22/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
.500 at the deadline? maybe, best case? Probaly assumes below .500 at the ASB, and climbing back by 7/31.
But, how likely is it that a team sitting right at .500 on 7/31 is going to make the playoffs?
Think they can go 40-20 to finish the year and get to 90 wins?
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
i may be delusional, but I’m still hoping the Mets record for June and July will be .500. Then, go 8+ in Aug and Sept.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
I wish I could remember when I was as optimistic as you are my friend…seems like a long time ago.
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
for me, it’s about not losing the forest for the trees.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
You are right, as usual.
I accepted the last two seasons’ endings, but this currently unfolding disaster is going to be even harder should it not turn around.
I hope you see a win tonight; you deserve it!!
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
My consolation is looking at the Yankees. The Mets have half the team on the DL, the Yanks have no excuse for losing the series to the Phils, Marlins, Nats and Mets (almost). I certainly think the Braves will continue the NL East dominance of the Yanks.
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Oh forgot theiry awesome record against the Red Sox. Ha! Life is Good!
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Yea, watching the Mets lose is whats making baseball enjoyable for me at the moment. That Nationals shut out made me jump up and down like a Beverly Hills cheer leader. Sad, I know.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Freudian slip there Qns?
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
Wow, meant to say Yankees.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
You can say that again, Grave.
udontmesswthejohan
6/22/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
I disagree Brock at least for me, it is easier to swallow since this unfolding debacle can largely be blamed on injuries.
On the bright side, at least we won’t have to hear the usual “brak up the core” shants from the peanut gallery. That may end up being the best thing to happen to this franchise.
trs86
6/22/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
These injuries for me have lessened the urgency. Those things just happen. Look at 87. I just want to be competitve EVERY year but you have to realize that some years unless things break right it’s not going to happen. Yes there is still hope, a lot would have to break right. As much as we have had break wrong, it’s possible.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I agree that the “break up the core” lunacy being hopefully buried once and for all might just make this season worthwhile.
trs86
6/22/2009-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
So Philly is a .000 team? What have they played over that same span? Yes we are bad but you can’t just waive a magic trade wand and expect it to get better. There is NO magic trade wand and you are not going to make a trade right now unless you want that wand shoved somewhere you won’t like.
stickguy
6/22/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
I am now fine with Omar getting the boot (and it might really become neccessary to clear the air).
Is he the anti-christ like some people say? Of course not. He is merely an adequte GM. Not horrid, but not great.
To me, the real measure of the GM is the health of the organization (not just did the big club win the WS). Since the mets seem disfunctional, the minors have not been handled well, the medical staff, PR, etc. all have been a mess, that goes back to him.
A big payroll, and inheriting Reyes and Wright, have helped cover for many of the other sins, but eventually it comes back to haunt you (just ask Madoff!)
Oh forgot, the biggee: The GM hires the manager, who is really the face of the organization, and who set the tone. Big fail here, since he picked back to back losers, seemingly chosen because they A) worked cheap and B) were so glad for the job, they would be meek toadies to Omar and Tony.
So, IMO< the Mets need a remodel, top to bottom. But in a culture that demands perfection (play hard, play the right way, or dare I say it, the “yankee way”). And a visionary that will buiild from the foundation up, and use the $$ resources wisely.
And frankly, I don’t see Omar being able to do that. But, a new young gun (like Thoe, or the dude in Fla or some others) with a plan, that includes getting a strong manager in place? That to me is a better view of the future.
udontmesswthejohan
6/22/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Look, maybe you are right about the whole clearing of the air. In retrospect, it looks like he should have gone outside the orginization for a manager once they decided to fire Willy, but that didn’t happen.
If I am being totally honest with respect to Omar though, I would have to say that the good outweighs the bad. Remember, this team was a complete and total mess before he arrived here and they have been contenders since his arrival. Yes he inherited Wright and Reyes, but he also had the gumption to resist trading them as so many “brilliant experts” have suggested over the years.
I don’t really have the answers, but I do know it’s better to root for the Mets, even with all of the heartache, then it is to root for a whole bunch of teams in MLB. Just ask Pirates fans.
trs86
6/22/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
We should learn this from ALL of the Met firings. If you don’t have anyone better to replace them then you don’t fire them.
prismo
6/22/2009-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Doesn’t matter – no way Jerry gets fired mid-season. Absolutely no way it happens.
After the season though…Bobby V will be available. If Omar wants to please the fan base, he’ll know who to hire.
And yes, I know you don’t like Bobby V, but most of us love him.
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Clint Hurdle got fired and look at Colorado’s record since.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
You think the Wilpons will pay three managers this year? Isn’t Willie still on the payroll too?
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
I honestly don’t know, since he’s employed by the Milwaukee Brewers I just assumed he was not.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
The Wilpons are almost certainly paying him his Met contract MINUS what the Brewers are paying him, just like how our deal with Shef works….
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
good point. I wonder if Cot’s Contracts has this, I will check.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
According to Cots he’s being paid $2.25 mil this season by the Mets, they do not mention the Brewers and he doesn’t appear (that I can find) on the Brewers page.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/22/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
I’m very worried about Beltran. I bet that the medical staff will say “Ahh he’ll be okay with some rest”. So Jerry will take him out of the lineup (hmm we have the Cards and the Yanks coming up….) and then his injury will get worse. Medical staff will take another MRI and realizes that Beltran has a broken toe or something that they completely mis-diagnos and he’ll be on DL before we know it.
And then his return would be 2 weeks, then pushed back to 1 month and then 2 months…. just like Reyes.
What a joke this medical staff is.
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
I am sure they will send Beltran for an MRI after he makes another great sliding catch and some bone is sticking out through his skin somewhere….
trs86
6/22/2009-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
I am not even worried anymore. If Beltran goes down it will be like leading the cows out for slaughter and I can just relax and get shot.
stickguy
6/22/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
If he has to go out for a month, I’m will to go with the “taste of the future” plan.
Why not see F mart in CF, Tejada at SS or 2B, etc.?
Gotta be better than seeing Emil Brown play every day!
Kingman 26
6/22/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
LOL!
jaded1983
6/22/2009-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
I feel the same way, I had to just let my anxiety on this season go. I was getting too upset about the state of everything. I still watch everygame, and obviously post about it, but cant let myself get wrapped up in another summer of tightrope walking.
beltran to the DL (as I’m assuming most here think will happen) will just cap off this season for me. Just hope omar stays smart and doesnt knee-jerk a move for the sake of making one. I’d certainly rather he keep what we have and let everyone get healthy and go from there. Id rather be a mediocre team this year and have much better years moving forward than gamble everything on this year and then succumb to mediocrity for the next few years.
Joe R
6/22/2009-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
Im with you and i try not to care I really really do!!! But its so hard when all that keeps playing in my head over and over is we really should be in 1st place! As crazy as that sounds and I know all teams have bad losses but Castillo’s drop, Church’s missed bag, and countless others which were sure wins, we really with no bias should be in 1st place! Thats what is driving me nuts. With all the injuries and our expectations set so low THEY STILL MANAGE TOO DISAPPOINT! Philly keeps losing and I get excited again and beg for a WIn with no result. WHAT A SEASON.
jaded1983
6/22/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
Oh to be a Mets fan my friend…..
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
This team has nothing after 1,3,4 in the order. It’s completely depleted. I don’t think home runs are the end all, but not having a guy capable of hitting a 3-run homer when you need it (thanks for making me look bad, Schneider) is a problem. We have no punch in the lineup.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
And as I pointed out earlier, Murphy’s Gaffe.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
Agreed.
Joe R
6/22/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
Its like even in a year that we would understand, a little, if they fell out of it, they still are right in it and manage to rip our hearts out! lol
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
This is the kind of year where they could have been in even better position come September (considering the brutal losses we’ve had thus far), but won’t be. We will make it harder on ourselves and end up on the outside looking in, with a #20 draft pick to top it off.
I am all for seeing the kids play. I’d rather Tejada come up and play 2B everyday, than see an aging, horrible Luis Castillo there everyday. The guy is terrible. Has no business on a major league roster at this point in his career. Either take steroids or go home.
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
that’s funny considering Castillo has been pretty solid all year.
Joe R
6/22/2009-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
No he really hasnt been solid. I think your expectations have been tricked into accepting average play or anything better than bad!
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Castillo was solid the first two weeks of the season. Period. He has no chance of doing anything significant when he bats. He can’t hit the ball into a gap. He can’t hit the ball down the line. He doesn’t have the range he used to have (it’s better than last year, but that’s not saying much). He would rather take strike three than swing the bat. He is horrendous. This has nothing to do with the dropped pop up. He needs to either sit down or get off this team. He brings absolutely NOTHING to the table. I’d rather see Argenis Reyes.
Look at Castillo’s offensive numbers and he looks like a little leaguer compared to Rey Ordonez. But at least Ordonez could play defense.
trs86
6/22/2009-3:39pm at 3:39 pm (UTC -4)
Are you seriously comparing Rey Ordonez’s numbers to Castillo? Go take a look at OBP and BA and let me know again. Castillo my be light hitting but Rey was NO hitting and no walking and just plaing no.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
He’s been pedestian, not solid IMO. But Im sure hitting 8th half the time doesnt help his cause.
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
Would you rather he bat cleanup? Hahaha.
I’ll tell you one thing, if Reyes was healthy, Castillo would be sitting in favor of a guy with a torn ligament in his hand and a one year contract. That’s how bad he is.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
Or maybe leadoff or 2nd as the designed plan going into the season, but I know the injuries changed all that.
With all that said, its ironic how Castillo has been in the lineup everyday. (knock on wood)
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
Come on. He’s not even good in the 2-hole. The only spot he should bat is 10th on my weeknight softball team.
QnsNative718
6/22/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Lmao.. Hey, Im far from a Castillo SYMPETHIZER, but if we’re looking at numbers and production, you wont see it from the 8th spot.
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
Being a #8 hitter in this skeleton lineup pretty much says it all.
Joe R
6/22/2009-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Very true. The one guy who most looks like his legs may come apart and turn to ashes right in front of our eyes when running is playing more than anyone!! lol
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
If you have to give him credit for something, other than his good 20 at bats to start the season, I can stomach giving him credit for that. I guess.
Joe R
6/22/2009-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
YES!! If we ever do get healthy I would LOVE to see CORA in there most of the games for Castillo.
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
If Cora isn’t our everyday 2B if/when Reyes comes back from the DL, that is good enough reason to fire Manuel.
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
ok, when I say solid I mean injury free and better than last year.
Joe R
6/22/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Amen!! Amen!! I hate him more than anyone I have ever hated. There are 2 GODDAMN outcomes when castillo is up. A weak pathetic groundball to an infielder or that equally pathetic slap pop up to the left fielder that would ususally be a base hit BUT because they PLAY so SHALLOW, probably more than they do against a pitcher, it is easily caught!!! You stink castillo and shame on Omar for not being a man, admitting you made a mistake, eating the contract, and bringing in HUDSON!! A man, unlike many players we have, THAT wanted to be a MET and a team player and a hustler, etc!
As you can see doesnt take much for me to get started on Castillo!
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
It’s not even his fault. He’s just not that good. I was never impressed wtih him in Florida and I’m certainly not impressed with him now. Sure, every now and then he’ll single to left field, but he is pretty much useless.
Here’s a situation for you. Man on 2nd, 2 outs, Castillo is up. There is no chance the runner scores on a ground ball base hit to the outfield because they play him shallow. He is pathetic. Get on HGH or go home.
Joe R
6/22/2009-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Haha agreed. Its not his fault. His game was slapping the ball and running. Um…Omar you dope the minute a player like that has knee problems you should have ZERO interest in him not sign him to a 4 Year deal.
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
I’d rather see Jonathan Malo in the lineup everyday.
wannybackstra
6/22/2009-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
the who hit under .200 in AAA and was demoted to AA?
Joe R
6/22/2009-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
Wow I feel so much better now!! I finally was able to put into words and figure out why this year is killing me! lol
Its because with all the injuries and our expectations set so low THEY STILL MANAGE TO DISAPPOINT. Players we dont expect much from and wouldnt be shocked if we got bad play out of them still manage to under achieve even for their respective levels!!
IDK what Im talking about but I feel better.
metsfan4decades
6/22/2009-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
I lowered my expectations about two weeks ago for this team. Does not mean I’ve given up but it makes it a bit easier to watch with all these loses as my mindset is now set to ‘underdogs’, rather then ‘we should win the NL east’….
Joe R
6/22/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
I know and it would be easier for me if we were getting blown out or just straight out losing. Its the games we should have easily won and threw away that is so tough to swallow! Can anyone really argue with all the injuries and all the issues with this team WE should still honestly and unbiased be in 1st place?
metsfan4decades
6/22/2009-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
‘ts the games we should have easily won and threw away that is so tough to swallow!’
I hear ya, Joe. Don’t care what my expectations were/are, these loses have me wanting to throw my remote at something….
Joe R
6/22/2009-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
Just curious. How much in total dollars did Hudson and Dunn sign for together! It pains me to think what a few extra dollars would have meant to this TEAM Omar!! Hudson to no one surprise is having a good year and Dunn, well we all know what he would have meant to us.
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Adam Dunn is part of a select few group of major leaguers that could hit 40HR in our stadium. Unfortunately, we don’t have any of those select few that could even hit 20-25.
Joe R
6/22/2009-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
That goes to my point that I wish Murphy was never born! If he was never born, he could have never played baseball, never signed with the Mets, never won the Spring Training battle, never been our starting Left fielder, and never been annointed our Golden Boy!!
What does that equal?? Omar having to sign Dunn!!
LOL joking of course.
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
Pope Mike one day said before the season started, “…if you gave Omar and Mets ownership truth syrum, they would swear that Daniel Murphy is going to hit .300. They would swear to it. They love this kid.”
And we wonder why our team sucks.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
Well, he hit .313 last year in yes a small sample, and his career minor league average is .290 after he hit .315 in his last minor league season, so to suggest that he would hit .300 before this season started was far-fetched how?
There's Always '09
6/22/2009-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
His career minor league batting average was .290, that’s how. He has a great approach at the plate and he may, just may end up being Luis Castillo Super Sized. But that’s all. He has 4 homers on the season, two of which don’t count (@ Williamsport).
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think you truly believe that .290 is the Mendoza line, do you? It’s hardly a huge leap from there to .300, especially when he’d already done in at this level (again, yes small sample).
The power issue I can’t argue with you about, you’re right. But the idea that the Mets brass believed he would hit .300 as evidence that the team sucks is what I’m arguing against because I think it’s a big stretch. You have so many more valid things to use to show that they suck, you don’t need to use something so thin as their pre season thoughts on Murphy to do it.
trs86
6/22/2009-3:44pm at 3:44 pm (UTC -4)
Hmm close to 20 million. Hudson’s contract will pay him a little over 8 million and Dunn with bounus up to 12 million.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
So I just noticed that the Mets have released Wily Mo Pena and Javier Valentin from AAA. There goes my last hope for this team 8)
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
hello there, where’s your source?
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Another one of my famous “I Reports”
If ESPN can just rip other peoples stories and say “ESPN has learned that…” why can’t I?
Besides, I couldn’t have posted it a minute before you did if I took the time to attribute it properly.
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
damn bloggers
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
Breaking News!!! Not really, more like an idiot report.
Joel Sherman blogs:
And I wondered if there were the kind of three- or four-player packages out there that would infuse the Met talent base making it worthwhile to trade one of the core. At that point the Mets could then use the money saved to attack the free-agent market. So essentially, you would have received the 3-4 young players who could help, inexpensively, for a long time while also having freed up dollars to add even more players.
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2009/06/3_up_met_core_a.html
So, trade core guy, get back 3-4 prospect and hope 1 is as good as the guy you traded. Then go out and spend money on a FA which will cost you a 1st round draft pick. How does this help the team or the farm?
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
holy cow, I’ve taken over the recent comments. Sorry.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
Well it doesn’t help the farm system so much but it helps the roster by bringing in the “3-4 young players” that Sherman mentions, who I assume would be some minor leaguers and some major leaguers, and that helps the overall depth by putting roughly 2 current Mets into less important major league roles, or possibly the minor leagues.
I found even more intriguing the point further down his blog about the hip surgery. It seemed to indicate that the guys coming off the hip surgery A). need regular rest, and B). when they don’t get it they hit a wall of sorts around 50 games. If/when Delgado comes back there will be roughly that many games left in the season. Hmmm.
CaseStreet
6/22/2009-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
but depth is just depth. I mean, from the trades I’ve seen, you’re lucky to get a prospect that will be a legit ML star, the rest of the prospects are usually career minor leaguers.
GravediggerHebner
6/22/2009-1:38pm at 1:38 pm (UTC -4)
That’s fair. I think realistically you try to get one who will (hopefully, if you’ve scouted properly and the player dedicates himself to it) become a legit star, and that of the other 2 or 3 you hope 1 becomes useful/serviceable.
But so far, as an example, Carlos Gomez is not a star, and none of the other pieces have yet proved even serviceable. In the end I think your concept of it is more likely to occur, but if every team looked at it that way there would never be any trades.