“He’s throwing grounders.” Casey Stengel
Here’s what you missed on Tuesday, June 23, 2009:
- This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty 6-23-09 by rustyjr
- Morning Open Thread by CaseStreet
- Draft And Follow 6-23-09 by GravediggerHebner
- Reyes in Car Accident… by QnsNative718
- Man Up Awards For Monday Night by dirtysanchez
- NL East Daily Recap 6-22-09 by mrose
- Gameday Weather 6-23-09 by prismo
- An In-Depth Look At… Joel Pineiro. by QnsNative718
- Mashed- Up Mets Update. by QnsNative718
- Well then I guess there’s only one thing left to do….Win the whole *** thing by dirtysanchez
- Stacy Says That The Mets Are The Team To Beat In The East by GravediggerHebner
- Game Thread: Mets (35-33) vs Cardinals (39-32) by dirtysanchez
- Post Game: Grounded by GravediggerHebner
You got something to say? Say it here!
79 comments
rustyjr
6/24/2009-7:41am at 7:41 am (UTC -4)
the casey quote is quite spropo
There's Always '09
6/24/2009-8:12am at 8:12 am (UTC -4)
Joel Piniero owns the Mets in NY.
There's Always '09
6/24/2009-8:33am at 8:33 am (UTC -4)
The problem with this team right now is, what do we do if an opposing team hits a three-run home run? Last night, 1-0 felt like trying to lift a 350-lb anchor and run back and forth with it like in the World’s Strongest Man Competition.
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-8:43am at 8:43 am (UTC -4)
lol thats because we dont have a lineup…but more importantly we dont have a consistant and self serving lineup. Why again is tatis batting cleanup…
billydeewilliams
6/24/2009-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
i might not watch the next game tatis is batting cleanup. talk about a rally-killer….not that they had any semblance of a rally going at any point last night, but when you get 3 men on base you certainly can’t afford to erase one of them with a double play ball…and another on a blown hit and run.
everyone was hitting ground balls last night, but tatis is killing me, and i’m completely and utterly baffled by jerry’s decision to leave batting cleanup the last two nights.
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
between monday and tuesday i think he hit into 4 double plays…
there are more qualified people to bat cleanup…or you can be more creative than that. If your not going to fix his swing like kieth says EVERY broadcast…dont put him into a position where he can hurt your chances….managing 101.
mrbill
6/24/2009-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
between monday and tuesday i think he hit into 4 double plays…
Only the mets. Tatis needs to go down to AA.
Joe R
6/24/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Thats a stretch
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
we cannot afford to have him do that unfortunatly but my thing is they need to be managed better. Put tatis lower in the lineup because right now he is costing games.
Joe R
6/24/2009-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
With this lineup Jerry was trying to give Tatis confidence and get him out of his slump. He is one of the few players that if he gets right and somewhat hot can help us big time. He is a veteran and Jerry knows we need him during this stretch..
mrbill
6/24/2009-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Right now Tatis is costing the team games… if it’s not Tatis, it’s the defense or the offense or the bullpen… This team is so inconsistent that nothing will help. They give no reason to believe otherwise.
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
its like we take one foot foward and two back. We are playing inconsistant ball and thats why we cant go on any winning streaks. We will continue this win one and lose one until jerry makes consistant decisions
CaseStreet
6/24/2009-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
In June the Mets have scored:
0 – 2 times
1 – 3 times
2 – 0 times
3 – 2 times
4 – 3 times
5 – 2 times
6 – 6 times
7 – once
8 – once
So, they avg. 4.1 Runs per game. Not too bad for the Scrappy Mets.
Kingman 26
6/24/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Nice work Case….now, if we can just get the pitchers to give up about 3.9 runs a game…
Going to the game tonight I hope??
prismo
6/24/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Which is the same as the Houston Astros – the team with the fourth fewest runs scored in the majors.
There's Always '09
6/24/2009-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
Their offense has zero in the way of consistency though. They can score runs here and there, but they can’t put together an inning when they desperately need to. Down by one run, the game almost felt out of reach. Not just by how Piniero was throwing last night, but by what our lineup was. It is pretty bad right now. I think Jerry needs to consider starting Nick Evans in left over Tatis.
mrbill
6/24/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
I agree re mets offense. Nick Evans for Tatis? what’s the difference? This team is in so much trouble that you cant even get mad anymore… lol
QnsNative718
6/24/2009-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Yea, the last couple games I watched w/out any anxiety. Meaning, my expectations for this team is real low, which is sad but hey, hopefully these guys can prove me wrong. Didnt help last night…
CaseStreet
6/24/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
In June the Mets have given up:
0 – once
1 – once
2 – once
3 – 4 times
4 – 2 times
5 – 3 times
6 – 2 times
7 – once
8 – once
9 – once
10 – once
15 – once
So, Met pitchers avg. 5.5 runs per game. Make Santana’s 15 run game to a 5 run game and the avg. drops to 5 runs per game. Still, too high.
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
How do you hit and run WITH THE PITCHER!!!!
QnsNative718
6/24/2009-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
According to reports, that was Livan’s call…
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
lol…ok…ill let jerry slide on that one then. So jerry called for the bunt over and livan decided to swing?
QnsNative718
6/24/2009-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
Not sure. Grave and 4D said (After I was bashing Jerry like a pinuata) Jerry mentioned it was Livan’s call in the postgame. Didnt get much detail..
Joe R
6/24/2009-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
Jerry is fine. He is working with the most depleted team I have ever seen. He knows his players better than we do and is trying and will continue to try to find anyway to generate some offense. Guys…we are going to lose our fair share of games during during this stretch. Even if Jerry put on the hit and run, which he didnt, we were pounding the ball into the ground all game. Nothing wrong with trying to get the infielders to move around and try to find a hole. Even with the pitcher. We cant do things completely buy the book now. We need to take some chances and hopefully FORCE some breaks to go our way like Razor did early in the game 2 nights ago.
QnsNative718
6/24/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
Oh believe me Ive been a Jerry supporter (Dirty, can attest to that)and I know what he’s dealing with, but hitting Tatis cleanup??? Again???
Joe R
6/24/2009-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
He is trying to get him going. Trying to instill instant confidence in him. Jerry knows with this lineup along with the young players, we need Tatis to get going. He is a veteran and capable of helping this team big time if he gets going like last year. He is one of the few players that is somewhat proven and Jerry is just trying to show faith and inject some confidence in him to get him going.
mrbill
6/24/2009-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
He is trying to get him going. Trying to instill instant confidence in him….
It sounds like Willie/Jerry last year with Heilman and we all know how that experiment turned out.
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
im going to continue this lower on before it gets too narrow
Kingman 26
6/24/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Tatis is a valuable bench player, and nothing more.
In all seriousness, based on what we have seen this year, Santos should be hitting cleanup over Tatis. Seriously.
Tatis at this point is like Endy Chavez or Jeremy Reed—valuable off the bench, but the more they play, the less they will accomplish.
metsfan4decades
6/24/2009-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
I can’t say if Jerry called for the bunt and Livan over road him, going with ‘his gut’. I just know that Livan made it very clear after the game last night, that was his idea, his call, not Jerry’s. I got the impression when Jerry was asked about it on the post game, that he did know that Livan wanted to try it before hand and he approved it. Jerry said, all balls were being hit on the ground, Livan was hoping to find a hole on the ground to get it out of the infield and ‘it just didn’t work’.
Don’t believe Livan and Jerry were not on the same page. Think it was a strategy Livan wanted to try and Jerry gave him the O.K.
Joe R
6/24/2009-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
I know Johan has hit a rough patch and he still has been great for us this year. I know he usually picks it up later in the year but now is the time for him to deliver and get hot. We cant afford him to be average or even above average. If he can get hot, like he is more than capable of doing, we may be able to withstand the next few weeks to the break. I will be happy with a split at home with our lineup against the Cards and it may come down to Johan on Thursday. Yes he is facing Carpenter and it wont be an easy task but Johan is arguably one of the best pitchers in baseball. We need him to step up and get us that split!! Of course we will need to score at least 3-4 runs for him which isnt a given, but he along with Wright need to step up and win a few games during this stretch by themselves! Lets Go Mets! Hang in there guys!
Joe R
6/24/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Wow Carpenter is 5-1 with slightly over a 1 and a half ERA. We may need to win tonight to get that split lol I revise my previous post!
GravediggerHebner
6/24/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Carpenter is carrying my fantasy team. Used to be that Johan was.
Joe R
6/24/2009-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Fuentes has over a 4 era and leads the majors in saves?? Hm…I dont know what to make of that. Not judging KRod one bit because he has been great but them Angels really give their closers plenty of oppurtunities to pile up those numbers!
Kingman 26
6/24/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Haven’t looked, but stats like that could mean he has gotten shelled for 5 or 6 runs a time or two, and basically pitched great the rest of the time.
Still, I am not sure there is a single closer in baseball I would take over what we have seen from KRod this year.
Unless of course, as I mention below, Benitez is ready for the majors again….
Kingman 26
6/24/2009-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
In the comic relief area, Armando Benitez is pitching for the Newark Bears making a comeback, and hitting the upper 90s…with an ERA of almost 6.
wannybackstra
6/24/2009-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
And got beat by the Ducks last night.
Kingman 26
6/24/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Yes sir! I think he gave up 4 or 5 in the 9th to blow the save and get the loss.
Clearly, he is ready for the majors again.
wannybackstra
6/24/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
That’s his postseason form!
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
@ joe r
I hear what your saying, but imo with the way this team is undermanned you got to put your best foot foward. Let tatis earn the right to bat cleanup. What has tatis done this year to merrit him batting cleanup. Granted we have been w/o sheffield the last few days but theres no reason to bat tatis 4th when all season he has never batted higher than 6th. He has a overswing right now and until the mets fix that(just gotta watch sny broadcast…i mean kieth basically does it for you) he will not be effective. Monday he grounded into 3 double plays, we cannot afford to GIVE games away and waste very good performances from our starting pitchers. You cannot afford to experiment when your so depleated like this imo.
Kingman 26
6/24/2009-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
Tatis, in large measure, was so effective last year because he had been gone for so long and no one knew what to expect.
Now, pitchers know how to pitch to him, and we should not expect anything like last year’s results.
Bat Santos cleanup until he stops hitting.
Gotta think FAR outside of the box right now. Really far.
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
i agree. The league may have adjusted to tatis but he needs to shorten that swing and stand closer to the plate. Whatever hojo did, it is not working. I agree with santos batting cleanup as he seems to put together good ab’s. Only other canadate is church imo.
There's Always '09
6/24/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
I am all for moving Santos up. How about something like this:
Cora, Santos, Wright, Church, Sheff, Murph, Santos, Pitcher, Castillo
mrbill
6/24/2009-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
lol santos 2dn and 7th? GOOD!
There's Always '09
6/24/2009-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
Santos is batting twice. He is the MVP haha.
I mean to put FMart/Reed in the 7 spot.
QnsNative718
6/24/2009-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
One of our biggest RBI guys (Thats not saying much) hitting 2nd?
There's Always '09
6/24/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Our biggest problem is stringing together hits.
Kingman 26
6/24/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
I am not sure we could get away with Santos hitting 2nd AND 7th, but if we could, that might be pretty cool.
Castillo’s OBP trails only Wright and Shef among active Mets…we need guys getting on base.
There's Always '09
6/24/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
…in front of the pitcher so he can be bunted over for the top of the order. I think he is fine in the 8 hole.
Kingman 26
6/24/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Castillo sees a lot of pitches, rarely strikes out, and gets on base…he should clearly be batting 2nd right now…..
prismo
6/24/2009-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Here’s my lineup, it could look something like this:
Wright, Wright, Wright, Wright, Wright, Wright, Wright, Wright, Pitcher
mrbill
6/24/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
you mean K, K, K, K, K,etc… j/k
Kingman 26
6/24/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
More like 1B, 1B, 2B, BB, BB, K, K, K, K, K.
mrbill
6/24/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
Right now I’d bat Santos cleanup. I trust him more than Evans. (oh boy)
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
lol
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
If I were the manager, my lineup would look like this
cora
castillo
wright
santos
church
murphy
tatis/shef
fmart
QnsNative718
6/24/2009-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Id swipe Church and Santos.
Joe R
6/24/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Yes your only choices are Church or Tatis in the cleanup spot if Sheff isnt playing. Both are veterans and capable of staying within themeselves to a certain degree. Santos is not a cleanup hitter no matter how hot he gets.
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
right now..NOBODY is a cleanup hitter. What we need is someone that will get runs in and put a bat on the ball. Santos imo has a better approach to the ball than church who has a big hole in that swing. Catcher has been our most productive position with rbi’s, why not put it on overdrive and in a position to really help us. Again NOBODY fits for a cleanup guy other than sheffield but im sure many can do the job better than tatis and tahts my point.
wannybackstra
6/24/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
How about we leave Sheffield in the clean up spot for as long as he can step into the batter’s box?
This is not the time to be worried about preserving guys. You’ve got to use what you have, which isn’t much.
QnsNative718
6/24/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
@Joe,
The clean up spot, the slot in the lineup reserved for the player more likely to get runners in, is the ONLY spot to put Tatis?
QnsNative718
6/24/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
and the only spot to get him goin?
Joe R
6/24/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
The fact that everyone is saying well…Evans, Santos, etc should bat cleanup proves the point. To a certain extent it doesnt matter much because we dont know what to expect from these guys day in and day out! That is the point. Yes Tatis is the most proven, veteran, capable of well I wouldnt say carrying us but he can be a big boost like he was last year. Your not going to tinker with putting Santos, Evans at cleanup and change them both mentally and physically. They cannot start swinging for the fences. They are pretty much rookies!! Yes lets put FMart at cleanup and tell him to hit 20 HR’s from now to the All Star Break! Cmon guys.
Joe R
6/24/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
We dont have much to go with. Jerry has to be careful with managing the young guys, winning some games, PUTTING people in a position to succeed. Jerry doesnt have much to go with and when you put the equation together Tatis is the smartest move at cleanup at least the last couple of games. Its not as simple as saying well Santos hit 2 HR’s this week lets bat him cleanup. Tatis was the safest move imo.
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
well for one i never said evans in cleanup, all im saying is make that person work to bat cleanup. If church is hot, move him up to cleanup. If santos is hot, move him to cleanup. Why you would just put Tatis there is beyond me. Yes he is a vet but he is not have nearly the success he was having last year. Until they fix that, he is not good to us imo.
Joe R
6/24/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Wasnt saying you, just saying how everyone is saying this guy that guy, these guys are young and you cant make this a dog and pony show. Its either Tatis or Sheff imo. I wouldnt even tinker with putting Church there. He hasnt gotten going all year and asking him to jump into the cleanup spot is dangerous.
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
i agree with church not hitting cleanup but since jerry is committed to giving shef some rest and imo until they fix tatis swing, the only other person i would put cleanup is wright or santos.
wannybackstra
6/24/2009-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
Did I miss Sheffield’s name on the injury report? Out two days in a row?
prismo
6/24/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
No, Jerry said he wanted to give Sheff rest. Apparently after DHing for several games, Gary needed 2 more days off.
There's Always '09
6/24/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
Jerry also likes to sit guys when we need them. I’m surprised Wright has started the last two games.
wannybackstra
6/24/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. It’s just baffling when he decides to do things like this. There’s no reason Gary needs two days off in a row right now as long as he can walk.
This is gut check time.
There's Always '09
6/24/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
I’m sure Sheff would prefer to be in the lineup as well. This lineup is pretty pathetic with him in there. Replacing him with 2009′s version of Tatis is almost embarassing.
Kingman 26
6/24/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, but Shef’s legs are clearly old, aching, and at least slightly injured…if he seriously pulls or tears a hamstring, where will we be then?
wannybackstra
6/24/2009-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
In the same position we were in with him the last two nights anyway.
wannybackstra
6/24/2009-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Following on DirtySanchez’s related post yesterday, the following is from Buster Olney (current/projected total/career high):
New York Mets
Jerry Manuel’s preference for constantly playing match-up with his relievers on a regular basis already seems to be taking a toll on the Mets’ bullpen. There are some teams that don’t have a single reliever on pace to make 70 appearances, and the Mets have four (and would have had five if Putz hadn’t broken down). It’s difficult to consider these numbers without concluding that the Mets’ relief corps is being mismanaged.
Francisco Rodriguez
Games: 34 | 81 | 76
Innings: 34.2 | 81 | 86
Work on consecutive days: 9
Sean Green
Games: 33 | 79 | 72
Innings: 32 | 76 | 79
Work on consecutive days: 10
Pedro Feliciano
Games: 40 | 95 | 86
Innings: 30 | 71 | 64
Work on consecutive days: 18
Bobby Parnell
Games: 36 | 86 | NA
Innings 27 | 64 | NA
Work on consecutive days: 12
GravediggerHebner
6/24/2009-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
From managing a fantasy team bullpen, I have learned that many teams have a fairly steadfast rule in that, if they use a reliever 2 consecutive days, only under dire circumstances will they use that reliever on the 3rd day. This helps me know who to bench at certain times in the season. That Manuel could employ Feliciano on 6 consecutive days is IMO the most mind boggling, ridiculous thing he has done as manager. With 7, and now 8 members in the bullpen, there should be little need to use guys even 2 consecutive days, let alone 3 or God forbid 6!
metsfan4decades
6/24/2009-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
Very good points.
I’m thinking that his idea of managing a BP – and the failures lately – would not have been quite so evident if our starters were consistently getting into the 7th inning. The fact that so many starts had our SPs leaving in the 5th or just into the 6th, is what brought this to light sooner rather than later.
And all you had to do is look to last year and that BP to know over using guys was going to present a problem….
dirtysanchez
6/24/2009-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
its unbelievable to me, having served under willie randolph and the collapse that jerry would do the same mistakes that he did….
wannybackstra
6/24/2009-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
Stokes has been pretty effective this season but apparently has to perform sex acts on Jerry to get in the game.