“I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.” Casey Stengel
Here’s what you missed on Saturday, June 27, 2009:
- Morning Open Thread by CaseStreet
- This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty 6/27/09 by rustyjr
- Draft And Follow 6-27-09 by GravediggerHebner
- Gameday Weather 6-27-09 by prismo
- No Trade For You! by trs86
- NL East Daily Recap from 6-26-09 by mrose
- Game Thread: Mets (37-35) vs Yankees (41-32) by dirtysanchez
- Post Game: One Is The Loneliest Number by GravediggerHebner
- BREAKING NEWS – CARDINALS GET DEROSA by rustyjr
Here’s what you missed on Sunday, June 28, 2009:
- EXTRA!! EXTRA!! TRDMB Front Page Vol. 7 by Mr North Jersey
- This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty 6/28/09 by rustyjr
- Draft And Follow 6-28-09 by GravediggerHebner
- NL East Daily Recap from 6-27-09 by mrose
- Pass The Despair by GravediggerHebner
- Sunday Mini-Opinions: Sacrifice Bunts, Slappy, and Losing Hope by Kingman 26
- Who is Mark Teahen? by trs86
- Live with Livan Hernandez by trs86
- Gameday Weather 6-28-09 by prismo
- Jerry Wants a New Gangsta! by prismo
- Game Thread: Mets (37-36) vs Yankees (42-32) by GravediggerHebner
- Seven Train To Shea and Ron Darling by trs86
- Post Game: Balls by GravediggerHebner
You got something to say? Say it on The Real Dirty Mets Blog!
(For some unknown technical reason, you have to first click on Morning Open Thread to make the links work)
124 comments
rustyjr
6/29/2009-7:19am at 7:19 am (UTC -4)
as always love the Casey Quotes and as for last night – as dismal as the outcome was – STAY POSITIVE !!!
if there is anything we can hang our hat on from last night is that Livan still pitched well enough to win even though we didn’t and Murph was hitting the ball -but some good catchers were made. also Nieve pitches tonight !! so lets hope the wheels don’t fall of him either
There's Always '09
6/29/2009-8:25am at 8:25 am (UTC -4)
Livan pitched well and is in a walk year. Hopefully, Omar will trade guys like him and Church at the deadline. I have a feeling this week is going to get ugly.
Facts are facts. We are going to have lots of trouble beating teams that can put up a 4-spot consistently. This weekend was no different. At 1-0 feels like 4-0 with this team the way it is. Omar’s best option is to trade the age and bring up kids, ready or not. Get them some big league experience. Not the young pitchers. Just the hitters.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-8:31am at 8:31 am (UTC -4)
i think there would be a big backlash if that happened ’09 – and the mets will accuse the front office ( read wilpons ) as cheap again
There's Always '09
6/29/2009-8:39am at 8:39 am (UTC -4)
I understand there would be backlash, but I’m not in favor of trading away the farm for a player that is going to end up on the Yankees next year (Holliday). I’d rather trade Livan and Church for valuable pieces for next year. Teams can use an effective starter like Livan. Maybe the Cubs or even the Dodgers. We could maybe get a decent young bullpen arm for him. Don’t think Church would net us anything big, but why not shoot for a big arm deep in the minors? I just think losing Beltran was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Especially with this weekend and next weekend’s matchups. After that, we’ll know for sure.
I just really hope Omar isn’t under the illusion as we were in 2004 or whenever it was when we traded for Benson and V. Zambrano. That would be a mistake IMO.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-8:46am at 8:46 am (UTC -4)
so u say give up when we are 2 1/2 games back?
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
Haha…2.5 games back. It’s not like we have been winning and staying neck and neck with Philly. We just happened to get lucky and they have been weak over the past two weeks. I’m throwing in the towel because I think they are about to get hot with the bats. That is very bad news heading into this weekend’s series. We can’t hit. That’s a problem when you face teams that can put up big offensive numbers. I think Omar needs to make a decision this week on whether to buy or sell. When I say buy, it means Holliday (who will jump ship for the Bronx and take Johnny Damon’s place in LF next year because it’s Coors Field Light).
I think if any group of players deserve credit for keeping us in games it’s the starting staff. Redding didn’t pitch all that badly on Sat night and Livan is pitching like an All Star.
trs86
6/29/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Always, what valuable piece do you think you are getting for Livan and Church?
Besides that, by the time you get that trade done, Beltran will be back.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
hopefully it’s real soon
wannybackstra
6/29/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Lastings Milledge?
trs86
6/29/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
LOL, maybe and what would we do with him?
wannybackstra
6/29/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Play him sporadically like we do all of our young players!
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
What valuable pieces? A middle reliever that can get 6 outs before allowing 7 runs. Just someone that can throw strikes and get someone out. He doesn’t have to be a setup man or a closer. Just someone that can help us next year.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2009-7:48am at 7:48 am (UTC -4)
‘Here’s what you missed’…..
I almost wish I missed these 3 games this past weekend. Just dub it ‘The Lost Weekend’…..
rustyjr
6/29/2009-7:54am at 7:54 am (UTC -4)
unfortunately I was there on Saturday. 1 question – HOW THE FRIG IS IT A 55-45% MET FANS TO YANKEE FANS RATIO? I MEAN SOMETIMES I THINK THE FRONT OFFICE IS ONLY ABOUT MONEY!
metsfan4decades
6/29/2009-8:49am at 8:49 am (UTC -4)
I’m wondering if more than usual Yankees fans bought tickets to this past weekend series just to get a look at the new Citi field.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-8:52am at 8:52 am (UTC -4)
or to see luis drop another pop up
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Blame Met season ticket holders that sell their tickets on Stub Hub and such. Don’t blame them a lot though, some of them can only afford their season tickets by selling off the “premium” ones to make some of their money back. But blame the ones wealthy enough to do that out of convenience rather than need.
prismo
6/29/2009-8:06am at 8:06 am (UTC -4)
I’m not giving up on the season, but I’m definitely looking at this coming off season.
According to Cot’s Baseball Contracts the team will have almost $50mil coming off the books. That’s if the Mets don’t pick up the options on Putz and Wagner, and it’s not including 8 potential arbitration cases. I think the arbitration raises will only add up to a few million…so the Mets could have ~$40mil to spend without increasing payroll.
That’s a lot of dough..but it’s going to be a really weak FA class in 2010. I really think the Mets will look into signing Matt Holliday and of course a catcher. The catching situation is going to be tough…Bengie Molina might be the obvious FA option, but he’s not that good – his OBP is usually terrible and he’s getting old (35) – but he produces more than Schneider or Santos. Molina/Santos could be a good platoon.
Reyes
Castillo
Holliday
Beltran
Wright
Church/Fmart
Murphy
Molina/Santos
This line-up looks alright, but I think the Mets could upgrade at 1b easily. Even Adam LaRoche or Nick Johnson would be offensive upgrades at 1b, and they’re both FA in 2010. After signing or trading for a 1b the Mets would still have Evans and Murphy with nothing to do though – maybe involve them in a trade for something?
Also if the Mets have extra money to spend, it might be a good idea to take Putz’ option if he comes back healthy and just trade him and Evans or Murphy for a 1b.
Maybe I’m thinking too much, but it could be an exciting off season!
prismo
6/29/2009-8:10am at 8:10 am (UTC -4)
Orlando Hudson could be a good signing too. I think Castillo might actually be tradeable this offseason since he’s having a healthy season and has a bit of offense. Wouldn’t get much/anything in return for Castillo, but maybe just a bit of salary relief.
There's Always '09
6/29/2009-8:27am at 8:27 am (UTC -4)
O-Dog needs to be signed next year. Last night’s double notwithstanding, Castillo needs to either sit or go.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-8:32am at 8:32 am (UTC -4)
yeah he just had a r.b.i last night
There's Always '09
6/29/2009-8:41am at 8:41 am (UTC -4)
I know he had an RBI and has been playing solid defense. But come on. He has a little league bat.
In all fairness to Castillo, he just can’t be in the same lineup as Schneider. Although this year, 1-9 is weak, as opposed to just 7-9.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
he has a ring and is a former gold glove player
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
I know he has a ring and is a former Gold Glover. I’m not questioning what he has done in the past. But he is too light a hitter at this point in his career to be in the same lineup with all of our other light hitters. Read that, Murphy, Cora, Wright, Schneider, etc, etc. Let’s put it this way, you can’t even trade the guy. Nobody is going to take him off our hands after this season. Not unless we eat half the contract.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
and who praytell do we stick in the 2b hole a-rey? cora?
prismo
6/29/2009-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
If they sign Hudson in the offseason, trading Castillo and eating half the contract would be more than acceptable. Trading for Teahen or signing LaRoche to a cheap deal also could be great.
Reyes
Hudson
Holliday
Beltran
Wright
Teahen/someonebetterthanmurphy
Church
Molina
Now that’s a solid lineup!
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
We are NOT getting Holliday. He would have to be out of his mind to come to a stadium where he will hit 20 home runs on a good year. Especially when the team in the Bronx will offer him more $$ and he’ll hit 45 HR.
trs86
6/29/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Nice why not change it to 114?
Anyway, you are saying he is too light hitting in this lineup. What does that have to do with next year?
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Mariano Rivera had an RBI last night. Does that mean he should start everyday and bat 8th in Larussa’s lineup? No. Pointing out someone had an RBI last night is irrelevant. I just don’t see how he helps this team win in any way.
trs86
6/29/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Hudson will cost a lot of money again and for more years this time. Castillo will be back I am willing to bet.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
u don’t have to be kreshkin to see that lol
prismo
6/29/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Castillo and his 9 extra base hits this season? (no homers)
Hudson has 29 extra base hits.
Someone keeping the offense the same doesn’t seem like the right answer. A team with money to spend should upgrade at as many positions as possible.
trs86
6/29/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
But we have more positions to upgrade. I don’t want to use the money we have to pay Hudson 22 million to play 2B next year. There is just not enough of a difference when we have what we do at 1B and LF.
prismo
6/29/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
lol – you think he’s gonna get a 22mil/yr contract?? He’ll be lucky if he gets half that.
trs86
6/29/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
No you have to pay Castillo’s.
So 12 million for Castillo and 10 million for 1 year of Hudson, not to mention that it will most likely be 3/30.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
So basically what you’re saying is Castillo’s contract is an albatross, but that has nothing to do with how effective a ballplayer he is. If he was any good, his contract wouldn’t be bad. In reality, he is only making $6MM/year. He is effing us big time.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-8:14am at 8:14 am (UTC -4)
prismo i don’t think they will pick up j.j’s option – i think they want the draft pick but what does it tell you when the mets kept the payroll basically at the same level it did last season? they will pick up 1 big name player and a bunch of smaller tiered players – i mean cory sullivan rob mcochik ( what ever his name was) keity etc – and we either cut them or they are still in buffalo – not considered good enough to play up here – what does that tell u?
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-8:44am at 8:44 am (UTC -4)
3 vs. Milwaukee, 1 vs. Pitt, 3 vs. Philly. 2-5 could end the season, depending on where the 2 come from.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
we 5 and 2 i believe
rustyjr
6/29/2009-8:48am at 8:48 am (UTC -4)
meant to say – we can go 5 and 2 i believe
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-8:56am at 8:56 am (UTC -4)
Philly is getting hot. Our pitching has been there, but we couldn’t hit water if we fell out of a boat right now.
trs86
6/29/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, they are up to 3-7 in their last 10 games. Hot as they can be.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
they won two straight. we have lost 3 straight.
i said they are getting hot. not “they are hot”. the only reason we are even close is because they have been dreadful the last two weeks. if you think we are going to turn it around and win 10 straight before beltran, reyes, and delgado get back – then you’re on some good stuff. phillies will be getting ibanez back.
all that being said, i hope we drill someone this weekend. if you can’t beat em, bean em.
trs86
6/29/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
2-5 will not end the friggin season. Man you guys are killing me on here today.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
let’s say the two wins are against milwaukee (or more realistically, one in milwaukee and one in pitt). philly goes 3-1 in that span and sweeps us over the weekend (which is quite possible if they score 3 runs/game). we’ll be 6.5 games out and treading $hit instead of water.
darknova306
6/29/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Wow, usually the comments are more ‘c’mon guys it’s till early’ than ‘it’s over’. I was really hoping the Mets would prove my throwing in the towel on the season wrong.
Personally, TA14, I think we can contend in 2012 if Omar does it right… oh, wait, it’s Omar. Never mind, 2014 it is.
udontmesswthejohan
6/29/2009-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
I’m sure this has been touched upon, but the decision to allow K-Rod to throw even one pitch to jeter when he has Rivera on deck is beyond stupidity. I haven’t been thrilled with a lot of the moves Manuel has made this year, but at least there was room for debate. There was no such room in that decision last night and he should be getting raked over the coals for it. There is just no sense to it whatsoever, and it was the first time that I felt he was totally clueless. When you are getting outmanaged by the collective triumverate that is Joe Morgan, Steve Phillips, and Jon Miller, there are serious issues.
SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME…PLEASE!!!!!
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/29/2009-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
How about pinch hitting A Reyes.
udontmesswthejohan
6/29/2009-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Well, again in this situation I think you can make an argument that h wanted Reyes up there to get the bunt down. he failed, but at least an argument can be made. But as far as pitching to Jeter…there is no argument as you pointed out below. If he gets a hit the game is over. In the end it didn’t matter, but still I mean WTF???? This needs to be answered because it really doesn’t inspire any confidence.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/29/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Why in the world would Jerry pinch hit for a pitcher (Livan probably has more power and is a better bunter than Reyes) to lay down a F-IN BUNT!!
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
In the end, I would rather pitch to Cervelli with the bases loaded, than to Jeter with 1st & 2nd. That being said, everyone in the building seemed to know that Girardi was bluffing, except for Manuel.
udontmesswthejohan
6/29/2009-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Right, it was a win win fromt he Mets perspective. You don’t pitch to Jeter and the Yanks either take out Rivera or pinch with Cervelli. And youa re right it was so obvious that it was a bluff. I mean cmon, is this guy for real???
I wonder which one of the “geniuses” in the print or radio media will make a big deal out of this, or if they even noticed it? Instead they will continue to harp on whether or not there is enough grit on this team. What a bunch of BS.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Haha…they are missing their 1,3, and 4 hitters. You can’t go on for an extended period of time like that. It got to a point where Burnett was throwing 3-1 and 3-2 curevalls consistently to Wright and Sheff on Saturday night. There is simply no reason to pitch to those two with no protection in the lineup.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/29/2009-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
Oh BTW, Wright and Sheff were swinging at those pitches too!
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
Can’t blame them. Batting behind Wright was Church. Behind Sheff was Murphy I think. If Sheff and Wright aren’t driving in runs, there aren’t many others that will.
In all honesty, the guy I have the most faith in right now is Omir Santos. I think he actually goes to the plate with an approach. He was trying to take Rivera opposite field last night, because he knows Mo likes to throw that cutter. I’d like to see him in the lineup everyday.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/29/2009-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Omir doesn’t get paid enough to play everyday. But Tatis does.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/29/2009-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
I bet you that Jerry didn’t even realize MO was up next and as soon as he realized it, he walked Jeter.
wannybackstra
6/29/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Jerry didn’t cost the Mets the game last night but he was sure trying to. He’s indisputable idiot.
I have no idea what he was doing with Jeter (and neither did Jeter). He also pulled some idiotic maneuver with Texeira’s intentional walk, where he waited for a 2-1 count.
And after Dan Murphy was getting hot and was then benched for three straight games, he is ice cold again. I hope Jerry is happy.
And please don’t ever play an outfield with Tatis and Sheffield in the corners. Someone has to be able to catch the ball.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/29/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
I think part of the reason why Murphy threw to 3rd last night is Jerry. Murphy was benched for 3 straight games for Evans. Murphy was trying to be too aggressive to show Jerry that he can field and bat.
I really think that was one of the reason as strange as it sounds.
And also Evans was hitting well in past 2 games. Where was he???
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/29/2009-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
This weekend was combination of bad offense, bad defense, bad bullpen and bad managing. SPs were okay, but other than that Mets were flat out outplayed by the Yanks.
Is it me or did you think Jerry should have pinch hit for FMart last night in the 8th? The dude may have potential, but he is simply over matched. 3 pitch strike out in that situation. C’mon. Where was Nick Evans? And also pinch hitting Reyes??? Are you F-in kidding me? If you were going to have a pinch hitter bunt, what the F is your game plan?? To be honest, I don’t think Jerry has a game plan. He let KRod pitch to Jeter for 3 pitches. What if Jeter got a hit in any of those pitches? I don’t think Jerry knew it would be Rivera batting in the beginning. Why is KRod nibbling with Rivera at the plate? Did he all of sudden forget to throw a change up?
UGH!!!!
mrbill
6/29/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
This weekend was combination of bad offense, bad defense, bad bullpen and bad managing.
You mean this season…
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
I can stomach teh offense. I’m happy Joe Morgan pointed out that the Yanks would be in a similar situation if A-Rod, Tex, and Jeter were all out of the lineup. Even though they have about $50MM more invested in their starting rotation.
I find it funny when Yankee fans tell me the Mets have no depth and it’s Omar’s fault. The Yanks played .500 baseball with just A-Rod out of the lineup.
udontmesswthejohan
6/29/2009-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
I felt like Morgan actually had a decent game. I hate to say it, but the announcers were all half way decent last night which was a pleasant surprise.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/29/2009-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Wasn’t even listening to them….
darknova306
6/29/2009-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
I was watching last night in a bar, so no sound. How was Phillips? He really wasn’t glowing with joy about our struggles? That’d be amazing. What a schmuck.
mrbill
6/29/2009-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Listening to the weekend recap this morning on the radio I was GLAD I didn’t watch any of the 3 games.
How many errors (including the ones that were not official)? What Yankee player did K-Rod walk last night?
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/29/2009-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Question should be what Yankee player KRod didn’t walk.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
He walked Bret Gardner, Jeter (intentionally), and Mariano. So the two real walks were the lightest hitters in the lineup.
There are basically three guys you pitch to in that Yankee lineup. They are Gardner, Jeter, and Melky. Everyone else you need to be really careful with. There is no excuse for walking any of those guys.
mrbill
6/29/2009-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
Did you say MARIANO?????????? lol
The Yankees made history this weekend thanks to the mets: A-Rod’s 564 HR, Mariano’s 500 save and Wang’s first victory in 2009.
Only the mets.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Don’t forget Mariano’s first career RBI!
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
564 is a milestone why???
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
passed reggie jackson on all time list. although the argument can be made that a-rod only has 11 or 12 career HRs.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/29/2009-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
I understand losing first 2 games of this weekend. They were facing Tankees’ 1-2 punch. Mets AAA lineup was simply over matched. But we should have won last night’s game. Livan gave us yet another solid outing and Wang was hittable. Bad throw by Murphy and couple stupid mistakes cost us the game as it is the case for most losses recently. I know it’s early and there’s still plenty of chance, but why am I keep on losing faith and hope after these games. I hope they can turn it around this week, but….
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
If we give up more than 2 runs, you may as well turn off the TV and make out with (trying to keep it PG-13) your woman rather than wait til after the game.
stickguy
6/29/2009-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
I didn’t even get upset (since I was expecting it) when Mo walked, since I had no expectation that the Mets were scorin gin the 9th.
THere seems to be a divide now between the “don’t give up hope” and the “look to 2010 crowds”. I am in the middle. I hope they can pull off a miracle to stay in the race, but I recognize that they aren’t likely to overcome all their problems (and that the Phils are due for a hot stereak).
So, this week is big. 1-6, even 2-5 (punctuated by a sweep in Philly) and the season is effectively over. I just don’t see them suddenly pulling back to .500 through the trade deadline, and having most of the wounded come back and have big finishes, combined with lousy years by about 5 other teams currently ahead of them.
Assuming they do fall 7-8 back in July, and the DL news isn’t fabulous on most guys, I am all for trying to sell off some spare parts to generate some depth for the minors (and dreaming big, at least 1 guy to really help next year).
And I think it is a myth that fans will stop coming out, or riot against the team, if Omar does something smart for a change. Most people will recognize that the slew of injuries killed 2009, and that he is looking to make 2010 (or, 2014 now!) better.
COme on, trading Sheffield and playing Evans is a big deal? Moving Livan and keeping Nieve or Neise in the rotation? Can they trade Castillo to a contender? If so, do it and play Cora. CHurch or murphy is more of an indication of moving on early.
IMO, if it is guys that are not likely to be on the team anyway next year, trade them at the deadline and move forward. ANd only trade away prospects or valuable parts for a player under control (like a Teahan), not a rental.
Frankly, they don’t win unless the big guys come back, and if they big guys come back, the spare parts aren’t needed.
Anyway, we will have a much better idea of where the team stands and what the chances of the playoffs are a month fro now at the deadline. Nothing is likely to happen now.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
i agree stick
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
That sums it up rather well IMO.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
We just need to tread water until we get healthy. Any wins right now is a bonus imo. Just glad interleague play is finally over, we are obviously overmatched compaired to the AL. We are playing on a payroll of the Rays and Orioles with less than half of their talent. We are going to have to survive on pitching right now since batting/fielding fundimentals are not an important part of this teams structure. I did not watch this weekends games but from what i hear/read(thanks grave), it wasnt pretty
darknova306
6/29/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, Stick. Well stated.
stickguy
6/29/2009-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Oh as to Holliday, if he is getting a 6 year deal, he goes where the most money is, since it won’t matter how many HRs he hits. He’ll be pretty much done when the deal wraps up anyway, and this is a Boras show.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
He will go where the most money is. The Bronx. It’s sad, but true. What power hitter would choose to play his home games at Citi Field?
I think some players from the ML roster should be packaged for young pieces that can beef up the minor league system. Maybe we can make a run at Prince in the offseason.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
honestly i am weary of holliday – i dont think he would thrive here
stickguy
6/29/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
final comment: At least TRS and I were right in the off season discussions. Mets should have signed Tex to anchor the lineup for the next 8 years, and moved Delgado for some pitching help.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
honestly i woulda taken a chance on abreu or ibanez
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
ibanez could have helped us. i wasn’t for either one because i felt we would be too lefty heavy in the lineup.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
not hurting the phils now is it?
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
certainly not. i think everyone on here has been wrong before. i also think we would have been ok, had a bomb not been dropped in the clubhouse. team is decimated.
trs86
6/29/2009-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
Were not getting Ibanez, Omar wanted him bad.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Given that we now know that it was his desire to be a Yankee, and his wife’s desire for him to be a Yankee (both of these ‘nuggets’ based on press conferences after he signed) he wasn’t coming to the Mets, so while they ‘should have’ they ‘weren’t able to’ because the player didn’t want to come here.
My complaint about the offseason is that they didn’t sign a competent veteran corner outfielder, not about 1B.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
agreed jeff – and hey I wanted Murph in the of – but i was wrong – omar is aid to know these things – I do think the Wilpons dont give him ” total autonomy” like they advertised
trs86
6/29/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, no reason for us not to have gotten Abreu or Dunn.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Well, no GOOD reason. I’m sure the management used many bad ones to justify not getting someone of that ilk. I’m confident that’s what you meant, I’m just reinforcing it.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
They tried…but we all know omar was working with a budget. We all know he targeted ibanez since last year when alou went down. Wilpons were not going to give tex what he wanted given they are already paying santana a boat load of money and we still have Delgado. Agreed the mets should have approached the offseason differently but dont fall into the trap of hindsight.
trs86
6/29/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, mine is not hindsight though. We should have traded Delgado to the Angels for a SP and then we would not be in the Perez Delgado situation at least.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
i never heard a rumor that the angels were even interested in gado? If they were and we traded for a sp, how do we replace that power to begin the year given that tex was not an option to come here?
trs86
6/29/2009-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Dunn. Besides I knew we were not going to get much from Delgado.
trs86
6/29/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Think we maybe could have gotten Figgins for Delgado and signed Wolf and Garland. We would be leading the East.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
agreed but no way to know how they were going to perform this year and beyond. We have virtually no pitching prospects in the system so omar may have felt he needed a young retainable pitcher for some time. Again not saying opting for ollie was the right move but im guessing that was omars stragety.
wannybackstra
6/29/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
How so?
Garland has been awful (as expected) and much much worse than Livan.
Wolf has been better than his W-L record suggests. But he hasn’t been good enough to have made a real difference on a team whose offense has been its biggest problem. In any event, Nieve has essentially taken the role Ollie would have occupied and has pitched (in three starts, at least) better than Wolf.
And I can’t see at all what Figgins would have done for this team. Another guy like Castillo?
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
In this ballpark, the more “Castillo-like” players the better. Perhaps more appropriately, the more “mid-80′s Cardinals-like” players the better.
darknova306
6/29/2009-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Pitching really hasn’t been our problem (other than how Jerry mishandles the pen). The offense has been pitiful and the defense has been unbelievably horrendous.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
yep…agreed 100% dark. The offense was an unexpected problem as nobody would have guessed that everyone woudl be out but catillo/wright. The defense imo is the single most important obsticle on the team(and the now depleated lineup). Pitching and defense wins championships.
wannybackstra
6/29/2009-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Grave:
Intuitively I might agree with that. But at the same time, I’ve seen Chase Utley and several Yankees have little troulble reaching the seats.
In any event, Castillo style guys are not useful in a big park either. You still need guys with gap power to really take advantage of Citifield. And a guy like Figgins, with a .389 career slugging average, is not going to help.
Figgins only seems like a good idea in hindsight now that Reyes is hurt.
Citi really needs guys like Wade Boggs.
trs86
6/29/2009-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
Wanny you are missing the best part about Garland and Wolf. They were 1 year contracts and we would not have Perez.
Figgins is much better than Castillo at this point and can play multiple positions.
wannybackstra
6/29/2009-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
But Castillo is still here. Figgins wouldn’t be replacing Castillo so comparing the two is meaningless.
And Figgins has primarily played 3B, has been terrible at 2B and isn’t an adequate outfielder.
Garland/Wolf’s one year contracts might have been benefits compared to Perez’s 3 year deal in the long-term. But having them here this year wouldn’t have made the Mets any better this year (which was my point).
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
everybody layed off dunn..there had to be something to him that the public is not prevy to. Maybe a bad clubhouse guy or maybe roids idk, but many people passed up on dunn.
trs86
6/29/2009-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
GM’s listening to an idiot GM in Toronto.
Besides there were other places we could have sent Delgado.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think I am. If I recall correctly at the time I went through a lot of heated discussions and came out of them eventually advocating Dunn, knowing of his defensive deficiencies and his strike out tendencies, I through those conversations eventually came to the conclusion that he would be a plus because his homers go out of any stadium and his walks keep a lineup turning over, and those things would help more than his E’s and K’s would hurt. So wanting him then, and lamenting that he’s not here now, isn’t really hindsight IMO.
The point I’m getting at above is that there is some evidence that Teixeira was simply not going to come here so suggesting that he would’ve solved so many problems, while true, is moot because it just wasn’t going to happen. Dunn there is no evidence to suggest that it wasn’t going to happen, it just didn’t happen. That’s the difference.
trs86
6/29/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
Agreed.
We could have completely changed this team by signing Garland, Wolf and Dunn then trading Delgado and not signing Perez.
I am willing to bet we could have gotten a decent player for Delgado from the Angels
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
I hear ya and i agree tex was never an option for us. Dunn i always thought should have been attempted but there has to be some internal rumors about dunn that detered the mets as well as MANY teams that could have used his services.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Tex saying it was his dream to be a yankee and his wife saying the same thing was a bunch of yankee p.r. hype machine garbage. It would be my dream to play for a team that gave me $20MM/year for 8 years also.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
I didnt come to my conclusion from the statements that him and his wife said. Imo the wilpons are already paying santana what 137 mil…they were not going to pay tex what the yankees got him for.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Not necessarily. IIRC he told the Red Sox to back off because he wanted to go to the Yankees. I’m pretty sure the Nats offered more money.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
lol im sorry to ask grave but what does IIRC mean?
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
No problem, it took me a long time before I figured it out.
If I Recall Correctly
Back in the day I used to think LOL was Lots Of Love
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
haha yea these text/internet acronyms are hard to keep up with
darknova306
6/29/2009-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
I was at the game at Citi on Friday night. My friend happened to score tickets in the online drawing. We got tickets for Friday cause it was my birthday. I wish I had just stayed in Rochester. Section 339 was entirely full of Yankee fans that made the night especially infuriating. What a miserable weekend.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Tis better to get swept by the Yanks than teh Phillies.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
That does sound horrible. Quite a long trip just for that. I wish I had something uplifting to say, but you didn’t even get native son Redding.
darknova306
6/29/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Thanks. Yeah it was pretty bad, but I did have a good time in NYC despite the best efforts of our beloved team.
Fun side note: a coworker’s mom was a teacher of Redding’s when he was a kid out here. She says he had a really bad attitude.
I guess it was kinda cool (in a ‘I love baseball history’ kinda way) that I got to see A-Roid pass Reggie Jackson. :-/
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
I guess I get a glimpse of that bad attitude whenever he pitches inside. One of the things about him that pleases me is that he’s not afraid to do so.
And yes, you did get to witness tainted history. That’s the spirit!
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Redding was fine on Saturday. I thought he shoulda been yanked after A-Rod’s RBI single, but then Parnell (more like Ed Yarnell) would have given up 7 more.
wannybackstra
6/29/2009-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Redding was lucky to have lasted as long as he did since he refused to throw strikes. He threw 95 pitches through 5 innings and only about half were strikes.
I thought at the time that Jerry should have hit for him in the bottom of the fifth when there was a runner on base and 2 outs. Redding made the last out. And came out for the sixth in which he obviously had no gas.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
I agree that he struggled through 5 innings, but the results were he gave up one run to probably the best lineup in baseball…thru 5. If we could have gotten 6 innings and 2 runs out of him, I would have been very happy.
David Wright looks lost and lonely right now.