Speed at the top for Citi Field
Even the most casual observer of the New York Mets notices that something isn’t right. The Mets currently have 9 players on the disabled list. There is no specific timetable for any of these players’ return to active duty, just some general references to “the All-Star break.” So there is a dilemma. The roster needs help, and it needs help now. But almost anyone who is acquired essentially effects the roster twice: once as soon as they are acquired, because someone has to be dealt and/or sent down to make room; and then again if/when the injured players come back.
Adding to the dilemma is the understanding that while the Met farm system has some talent in it, it is not overflowing with trade-able commodities, and how much of the perceived future can fairly be mortgaged for a player or players that may or may not propel the team to the top or even help keep it afloat, let alone fit on the roster beyond the All-Star break.
You can almost hear Pete Seeger singing "Where Have All The Homers Gone?"
Compounding things is the new ballpark, Citi Field. While the dog days of summer may show otherwise, so far for the most part the park has kept home run numbers down. A recent article at ESPN.com based on a study by hittrackeronline.com suggested that Citi Field has so far this season thwarted 16 home runs by the Mets, and 20 by their opponents.
One potential long term solution for the Mets is to build a roster to best take advantage of their new ballpark. A roster built on pitching, speed and defense. For those old enough to remember (or inclined enough to do a little research), a roster like that of the mid-1980′s St. Louis Cardinals. Their 1985 NL Pennant winning lineup featured Vince Coleman and Willie McGee in the top 2 spots. Only 1 person on the roster hit more than 13 home runs (Jack Clark, 22). They had 5 players who stole at least 31 bases, topped by Coleman’s 110. Starting pitchers Joaquin Andujar and John Tudor each won 21 games. The team won 101 games. A team can win a lot of games without hitting a lot of home runs, it just has to have the right players.
Speed kills
Clearly the Mets cannot assemble a collection of talent like that of the 1985 Cardinals overnight. But they can start down that path next week, and it shouldn’t cost them anything significant but money. Los Angeles Dodgers outfielder Manny Ramirez is about to return from his performance enhancing drug use suspension. Juan Pierre is going to be relegated to their bench when that occurs. Hitting .323 with an OBP of .384, Pierre is being paid $10 million dollars this season, and is owed $18.5 million over 2010 and 2011. He is only 31 years old. The Dodgers don’t want that kind of money on the bench. They won’t require much if any talent from the Mets for taking that money off their hands. The Mets can send Fernando Martinez back to the minor leagues for more seasoning. Pierre can play CF while Carlos Beltran is out. When Beltran returns, Pierre moves seamlessly to LF. Ryan Church and Gary Sheffield can platoon in RF. The Mets can get started on the transition toward a roster that better fits their home park.
"If you get Pierre I catch with 2 hands"
In the short term, Pierre can team with his old Florida Marlins running mate Luis Castillo as a track team at the top of the lineup. Pierre and Castillo batted 1-2 for the 2003 World Champion Florida Marlins, scoring 100 and 99 runs, stealing 65 and 21 bases, and with OBPs of .361 and .381 respectively. In the longer term, imagine Jose Reyes and Juan Pierre 1-2 in the lineup. Imagine the Mets taking advantage of their home park, and of opposing starting pitchers. Imagine good outfield defense in left field. It can happen. And acquiring Juan Pierre is the first step in that transition.
UPDATE 5:30pm – If you don’t think Juan Pierre will help, don’t you dare suggest Jacoby Ellsbury instead, because according to The Hardball Times Ellsbury is rapidly becoming the same player.
43 comments
rustyjr
6/29/2009-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
problem is – the dodgers already said they are not trading him ! so that idea is shot to hell
btw i just had a triple root canal and it was less painful than this past weekends debacle
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-2:12pm at 2:12 pm (UTC -4)
The problem runs so much deeper than the fact the Dodgers said they are not trading him. He is an upgrade how? At this point, we are better off waiting for Pagan to come back.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
If only someone had told me that 2 hours ago I could’ve had a nice, calm afternoon.
But of course it’s possible they are just saying that to make an interested party offer more…
rustyjr
6/29/2009-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
true =- oh btw way speaking of pagan – i got his autographed ball from Bobby Parnell and randy neimanns wives – both are stunning – especially the elder neimann
metsfan4decades
6/29/2009-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
OMG…..hope you got some good drugs for that. LOL.
stickguy
6/29/2009-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
The FAN dudes where discussion Pierre whenI was driving to the game Thursday. I forget which host was plugging for him. I do know that I couldn’t believe it.
DO yo really think he is the way to go? DId you look at his stats for the last couple years (not just an outlier period while Manny was out?) Plus he is a lousy OF with no arm, and zero power? And he turns 32 in August.
from 2005-2008, his OBP has been .326-.331, and the only time he broke .355 slugging or .680 OPS (.388/.717) was in 2006
The guys is Castillo in the OF, but with less D, less OBP, and 2x the contract.
I understand the concept you’re plugging, but you still need to at least get guys that can drive the ball (doubles, triples, gaps). A line up of slappys ain’t gonna get it done.
Carl Crawford? Yeah, that fits the mold!
trs86
6/29/2009-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. Pierre really does nothing more than Pagan could do.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
Seriously? Score 100 runs, steal 65 bases, stay off the disabled list come immediately to mind.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
Carl Crawford isn’t about to be relegated to the bench.
It will only be “a lineup of Slappys” for the period of time between when he is acquired and when Beltran, Reyes and Delgado return this season. That period cannot be avoided, and can only otherwise be helped at the cost of prospects. Then in the offseason other moves can be made to make sure it doesn’t remain “a lineup of Slappys.”
stickguy
6/29/2009-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
what moves? If you don’t think Castillo is getting traded or released, you already have 2 locked in, plus likely a 3rd (the Catcher).
rustyjr
6/29/2009-2:23pm at 2:23 pm (UTC -4)
face it this team ain’t the ’85 cards and even if they were that kind of team wouldn’t be as dominant as it was back then – different time different game
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
1B, C and RF are going to have to be those moves. I don’t know who the players are yet, that’s 6 months off.
2010 hypothetically
SS – Reyes
LF – Pierre
3B – Wright
CF – Beltran
C – Molina, B.
1B – LaRoche, Ad.
RF – Martinez, F.
2B – Castillo
I’m not saying that’s the way to go but off the top of my head for starters.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
more likely
SS – Reyes
LF – vlad guerrero
3B – Wright
CF – Beltran
C – santos
1B – murph / evans
RF – Martinez, F.
2B – Castillo
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
That lineup makes me puke. I think Murph is trade bait. Evans is the keeper if you ask me.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-3:10pm at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
Stick I understand it is flawed and imperfect, but at least it’s a possibility. Carl Crawford is not. The suggestion of Pierre which apparently has raised a lot of hackles was made to avoid two things which most other realistic acquisition suggestions do not, cannot: roster logjam; giving up prospects.
Is it ideal? Absolutely not. But it is an outside the “Adam Dunn” box attempt to get the team scoring some runs without mortgaging the future and without creating playing time conflicts.
wannybackstra
6/29/2009-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
I usually agree with eh majority of Grave’s thoughts but as I said earlier with regard to Figgins, I don’t think guys like this are useful for the Mets. Has Castillo really benefitted from the spacious outfield at Citi? Of course not. You have to put the ball in the gaps to do that.
The Mets need guys with power. Not marginal home run power. But gap power. Line drive hitters. Having a bunch of slap hitters isn’t going to help.
A comparison to the Cards teams of the 80s is also a bit misplaced. For one thing they played on astro turf and ground balls in the holes always went through and weakly hit balls in the gaps could take off. For another thing, this is a different game being played today. The Mets would still have to play in the BOB, Citizens, Coors and other small parks 81 games a year.
I think people are taking the Citi park effect to the extreme.
A lineup with Pierre, Castillo and the current catchers would be truly punchless. And even Citi’s big outfield won’t help guys who have to bunt for hits.
Lastly, Pierre’s contract is prohibitive and he’s a lousy outfielder who throws like a chicken.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
i just agreed with u wanny lol btw u got the sat plan? im in sect 436
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
i agree wanny. The mets need muscle from the OF. A guy like pierre is a nice talent to have but i dont think he is an everyday player anymore. We have guys that can hit but its about strining them along that is whats killing us. The pitchers (w/o beltran,reyes,gado) know they can just pitch around wright and go for the rest of the lineup. I think we need punch from the OF so we can send fmart down for some polishing and help our club now.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
The only guy going to hit it out with regularity is going to be someone like Dunn. Everyone else is going to suffer a noticeable loss in power. One way to deal with that is an increase in speed.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
i guess nick johnson is totally dead?
wannybackstra
6/29/2009-2:34pm at 2:34 pm (UTC -4)
They don’t necessarily need home run power. But they could use line drive power to take advantage of those gaps. The Mets have three legit line drive hitters in Beltran, Wright and Church and it has worked out for two of them just fine at Citi, while the third has unfortunately been derailed by other forces.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
it just floored me to hear hojo admit they changed wrights focus away from being a power hitter
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
Allegedly both Adam LaRoche and Nick Johnson are available. Both have gap power, Johnson less so IMO, but the problem is both what they will cost in terms of what you give up to acquire them and where will they play when Delgado returns.
Certainly acquiring Pierre is also imperfect but it doesn’t deplete the farm and it doesn’t create a late season position logjam.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
you touched on my main fear…a log jam. The injured guys are going to come back and we cannot afford to not think our trades out. OF is the only position where we can afford to place someone that will not interfere with anything.
wannybackstra
6/29/2009-3:00pm at 3:00 pm (UTC -4)
I like LaRoche, especially in a platoon with Nick Evans or another right handed hitter. His splits against right handed pitchers are very very good. And he can handle the mitt.
This would relegate Dan Murphy to a bench role or trade bait. And while I’m not ready to give up on him, it is clear the manager has not committed to allowing him to develop.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-3:04pm at 3:04 pm (UTC -4)
One other thing I like about LaRoche is that his career splits show him to be a 2nd half player, so to acquire him now one would get the benefit of that (hopefully). But If he were re-signed and got off to his typical April start (career BA .197) it would get ugly at Citi.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
lol agreed. My issue is what will you do with laroche when gado comes back. Yes he is probably not going to be 100% but he is making 12 mil. Im assuming that the mets are going to platoon gado to ease him back in and thus why murphy/evans are here to provide that relief. A guy like laroche would be a wasted asset once gado comes back imo.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
agreed wanny. Citi is a line drive hitters park. We need more of that and we need a consistant run game. Citi field is a classic NL style park and we need to play that way.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-2:55pm at 2:55 pm (UTC -4)
Prince Fielder too
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
Allow me to add “available guy” to the previous comment.
rustyjr
6/29/2009-2:34pm at 2:34 pm (UTC -4)
guys i got this list from cots baseball
edited for the holes we migh have next year
catchers
Brad Ausmus (41)
Paul Bako (38)
Rod Barajas (34)
Josh Bard (32)
Michael Barrett (33) – club option
Henry Blanco (38)
Ramon Castro (34)
Sal Fasano (38)
Toby Hall (34)
Ramon Hernandez (34) – $8.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Jason Kendall (36)
Jason LaRue (36)
Victor Martinez (31) – $7MM club option with a $250K buyout
Bengie Molina (35)
Jose Molina (35)
Miguel Olivo (31) – $3.25MM mutual option
Mike Redmond (39)
Ivan Rodriguez (38)
Brian Schneider (33)
Yorvit Torrealba (31) – $4MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Javier Valentin (34)
Jason Varitek (38) – $5MM club/$3MM player option plus incentives
Vance Wilson (37)
Gregg Zaun (39) – $2MM club option with a $500K buyout
First basemen
Rich Aurilia (38)
Russell Branyan (34)
Miguel Cairo (36)
Frank Catalanotto (36) – $5MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Tony Clark (38)
Carlos Delgado (38)
Nomar Garciaparra (36)
Ross Gload (34) – $2.6MM club option
Eric Hinske (32)
Nick Johnson (31)
Adam LaRoche (30)
Doug Mientkiewicz (36)
Kevin Millar (38)
Chad Tracy (30) – $7MM option with a $1MM buyout
Daryle Ward (35)
Dmitri Young (36) -$6MM option vests with 500 PAs in ’09
Left fielders
Garret Anderson (38)
Marlon Anderson (36)
Jason Bay (31)
Emil Brown (35)
Carl Crawford (28) – $10MM club option with a $1.25MM buyout
Johnny Damon (36)
David Dellucci (36)
Cliff Floyd (37)
Matt Holliday (30)
Jacque Jones (35)
Gabe Kapler (34)
Greg Norton (37)
Wily Mo Pena (28)
Manny Ramirez (38) – $20MM player option
Dave Roberts (38)
Fernando Tatis (35)
Center fielders
Rick Ankiel (30)
Rocco Baldelli (28)
Marlon Byrd (32)
Mike Cameron (37)
Endy Chavez (32)
Coco Crisp (30) – $8MM club option with a $500K buyout
Darin Erstad (36)
Ryan Freel (34)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (34)
Reed Johnson (33)
Andruw Jones (33)
Gabe Kapler (34)
Mark Kotsay (34)
Corey Patterson (30)
Scott Podsednik (34)
Right fielders
Bobby Abreu (36)
Jermaine Dye (36) – $12MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
Brian Giles (39)
Vladimir Guerrero (34)
Eric Hinske (32)
Geoff Jenkins (35) – $7.5MM mutual option with a $1.25MM buyout
Gabe Kapler (34)
Austin Kearns (30) – $10MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Jason Michaels (34)
Xavier Nady (31)
Magglio Ordonez (36) – $15MM club/vesting option with a $3MM buyout
Randy Winn (36)
Starting pitchers
Brandon Backe (32)
Miguel Batista (39)
Josh Beckett (30) – $12MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Erik Bedard (31)
Kris Benson (34)
Daniel Cabrera (29)
Chris Capuano (31)
Bartolo Colon (37)
Jose Contreras (38)
Doug Davis (34)
Justin Duchscherer (32)
Adam Eaton (32)
Shawn Estes (37)
Josh Fogg (33)
Freddy Garcia (34)
Jon Garland (30) – $10MM mutual option with $2.5MM or $1MM buyout
Tom Glavine (44)
Mike Hampton (37)
Rich Harden (28)
Mark Hendrickson (36)
Livan Hernandez (35)
Tim Hudson (34) – $12MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
Jason Jennings (31)
Jason Johnson (36)
Randy Johnson (46)
John Lackey (31)
Cliff Lee (31) – $8MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Braden Looper (35) – option
Rodrigo Lopez (34)
Jason Marquis (31)
Kevin Millwood (35) – Rangers can decline $12MM salary for ’10 unless he reaches 180 innings in ’09
Brian Moehler (38) – mutual option
Brett Myers (29)
Vicente Padilla (32) – $12MM club option with a $1.75MM buyout
Chan Ho Park (37)
John Parrish (32)
Carl Pavano (34)
Brad Penny (32)
Odalis Perez (33)
Andy Pettitte (38)
Joel Pineiro (31)
Sidney Ponson (33)
Mark Prior (28)
Horacio Ramirez (30)
Jason Schmidt (37)
John Smoltz (43)
Tim Wakefield (43) – perpetual $4MM club option
Jarrod Washburn (35)
Brandon Webb (31) – $8.5MM club option with a $500K+ buyout
Todd Wellemeyer (31)
Kip Wells (33)
Randy Wolf (33)
Closers
Mike Gonzalez (32)
Trevor Hoffman (42)
Brandon Lyon (30)
Troy Percival (40)
J.J. Putz (33) – $8.6MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Rafael Soriano (30)
Jose Valverde (30)
Billy Wagner (38) – $8MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Right-handed relievers
Luis Ayala (32)
Danys Baez (32)
Joaquin Benoit (32)
Rafael Betancourt (35) – $5.4MM club option
Chad Bradford (35)
Doug Brocail (43) – $2.85MM club option with a $250K buyout
Chad Cordero (28)
Elmer Dessens (38)
Brendan Donnelly (38)
Octavio Dotel (36)
Kelvim Escobar (33)
Ryan Franklin (37) – $2.75MM club option with a $250K buyout
Eric Gagne (34)
Tom Gordon (42)
Kevin Gregg (32)
LaTroy Hawkins (37)
Matt Herges (40)
Bob Howry (36)
Jason Isringhausen (37)
Jorge Julio (31)
Masahide Kobayashi (36) – $3.25MM club option with a $250K buyout
Gary Majewski (30)
Guillermo Mota (36)
Juan Rincon (31)
Fernando Rodney (33)
Duaner Sanchez (30)
Rudy Seanez (41)
Russ Springer (41)
Julian Tavarez (37)
Luis Vizcaino (35) – $4MM club option with a $500K buyout
David Weathers (40)
Jamey Wright (35)
Yasuhiko Yabuta (37) – $4MM club option with a $500K buyout
Left-handed relievers
Joe Beimel (32)
Alan Embree (40) – $3MM club option with a $250K buyout
Scott Eyre (38)
Casey Fossum (32)
John Grabow (31)
Eddie Guardado (39)
Ron Mahay (39)
Trever Miller (37)
Will Ohman (31) – $2.2MM club option with a $200K buyout
Darren Oliver (39)
Glendon Rusch (35)
Scott Schoeneweis (36)
Brian Shouse (41) – club option
Ron Villone (40)
Jamie Walker (38)
nothing that sexy other than holliday and cliff lee
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
bank on omar trying to get vlad or holliday.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
Holliday will be a Yankee.
jaded1983
6/29/2009-3:03pm at 3:03 pm (UTC -4)
what about nady?
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not 100% sure but I recall reading about him having a setback in his rehab that will require additional surgery which definitely puts him out for all of ’09 and possibly interferes with the start of 2010.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-3:10pm at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
With Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui coming off the books, you think there is even the slightest chance the Yankee outfield isn’t Holliday, Gardner/Melky, Swisher?
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-3:14pm at 3:14 pm (UTC -4)
agreed 14. Yanks will definatly push for holliday.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-3:19pm at 3:19 pm (UTC -4)
Because they need another bat.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-3:14pm at 3:14 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t really have any thoughts on what the 2010 Yankee OF might be, I was only reinforcing with my comment that it won’t likely include Nady.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-3:18pm at 3:18 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry Grave. Didn’t mean to reply to your message. Meant that as a reply to Jaded’s.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2009-3:25pm at 3:25 pm (UTC -4)
Aha, then I agree
dirtysanchez
6/29/2009-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
done for the year.
There's Always '14
6/29/2009-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
are you kidding me? whatever they owe him, they will eat. even if a-rod starts struggling in his 3rd yr, that $30MM wouldn’t stop them from replacing him and putting him on the bench. if the yanks signed luis castillo to the contract the mets gave him, do you think there is even a remote chance they wouldn’t have signed Orlando Hudson in the offseason? look at what they did with Kei Igawa. He got a contract similar to castillo’s.