After last nights debacle and a close door meeting, many of us waited to see what the interviews would hold. What did Manuel provide us? Soundbites. It now appears as Jerry has had a change of heart. Why? Did he see something in the game last night that made him a believer? Did someone say something in the meeting that made him have faith? Chances are the answer is no. So why the change of heart? First lets think why Jerry made the we are not good enough comments to start with. In my opinion this was just Jerry being Jerry. He thought he could use the media to put pressure on Omar AND challenge his players in the only way he knows how, tear them down and build them up. It’s what he has attempted to do to Church, Murphy and even Castillo and none have worked well unless you think that is why Castillo has played better this season. So if that is the only way Jerry knows how to motivate, why the sudden change? Could it be pressure from Omar or could it be pressure from the players? What was said in this meeting? I know a few last night said that Wright came out in support of his manager but I disagree, to me he called him out.
“I think we have enough, but we have to do the little things right,” he said. “We have to prepare the right way. We have to really do things and win based on preparation and based on doing those small things right. We can’t go out there and beat people purely with talent.”
Who is in charge of making sure the team does the little things right? Who is in charge of making sure they prepare the right way? The players have the talent, Jerry is in charge of putting it together and so far it’s not working.
104 comments
2 pings
dirtysanchez
7/1/2009-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
ha! Go Wright. Wright is really manning up this year and i love it. Can we derive from that quote that the mets dont prepare the right way or prepare the right way. If so then all our assessments of Jerry were on point. They need to change the status quo. Talent is a dime a dozen at this level
trs86
7/1/2009-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
So what do you think about the quote Dirty? Some will say he just echoed Jerry but I don’t think so. Especially after watching the interview and the look in his eyes.
dirtysanchez
7/1/2009-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
well considering what he said earlier on in the year where i felt he was showing up his manager, i think he is calling out jerry and the team on that quote. He basically layed the challenge out to the team but also indirectly confirmed they have a lack of preparation in their games which is a call out to their manager.
udontmesswthejohan
7/1/2009-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know about that TRS. I would probably disagree. This was in essence the same thing that Jerry said, which you yourself referred to as a “soundbite”.
I think DW has made great strides as a leader of this team this year, but the truth of the matter is that you are never going to get anything from him that even remotely resembles anything close to a controversial statement. IMO, this statement simply echoed the one from his manager, and in the end that is fine, because yes they need to start playing better baseball.
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
I totally disagree. Jerry is the leader, and he is a weak, ineffective joker who giggles like a silly clown while the ship is in flames and sinking.
Wright is clearly saying that the team is sloppy as hell, which it is, and who is responsible for that, and responsible for fixing it?
Joker Jerry.
udontmesswthejohan
7/1/2009-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Can’t disagree with your disappointment with Jerry, I’m feeling the same way, but I just don’t necessarily read this quote by DDub as an indictment on him. I see it as more trying to motivate the team.
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/1/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
I would agree just by reading the statement, but like trs said above his eyes may tell you a different story. I like DW. I think he has a fire in him and doesn’t get rattled in a big spot (although some might say differently). I think he’s little cocky, but you want to see that in your players.
udontmesswthejohan
7/1/2009-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, and in the interest of full disclosure I didn’t see the interview, so that may very well change my opinion. Just from reading the quote though it doesn’t sound like he threw him under the bus.
I agree that Wright has really stepped up his leadership this year and I look forward to him continuing to grow int his role.
metsgirl31
7/1/2009-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
I think you may have a point with this…it sure sounds as if he was pointing his finger right at Jerry. And rightfully so.
sabermetrician
7/1/2009-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
I think Wright is fed up. How can you, as manager, say that your team isn’t good enough? Jerry shouldn’t be managing at this level. Good for Wright, good for all the Mets who still feel like they can win. We need a little bit of help and to get healthy, then I still think we can do this.
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Agreed 100%.
Jerry is a Joker who needed to be gone weeks ago.
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
Well TRS, I know you do not want to hear me whine about Jerry, but this is exactly what I have been saying again and again. Terrible fundamentals, and horrible decisions.
Batting Argenis Reyes leadoff when you have Castillo and his .375 OBP eighth is an abominable decision.
Bring in Showalter, play kids, and stress fundamentals.
And Wright is not only great and clutch, but with the absence of Delgado, he has clearly taken the reigns of this team, and will be our fiery leader next year when hopefully we are healthy and ready to win.
Joe R
7/1/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
I dont see him calling out Manuel at all and i dont think if he were to call him out or make subtle comments last night would have been the night Wright chose.
Guys, tell me if I’m over exaggerating but I really feel this start by Pelfrey is huge and goes a long way in his career with the Mets. He is no longer a rookie and he has shown last year, at least during the second half, he is able to get out hitters. He has been up and down and up and down just like Perez and Maine. I feel both Pelfrey and Maine need to step it up in order to be a part of the future of this team.
I dont want to hear after the game by Pelf…well i had good stuff but they just found some holes and dunked some balls in!! Enough is enough. Whether based on merit or not, Pelf is the number 2 starter on this team and its about damn time he shuts down the opposition!! I’m sorry to say but if Pelf throws up a dud or even a sub par performance I will be hugely disappointed and could care less about his future with this team!
A little harsh…but enough is enough!! Pitch a great game…Yes a great game not a good game…not 5 good innings and one bad…
A GREAT GAME PELF FROM BEGINNING TO AT LEAST THE 8TH!! ITS REALLY NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK FROM OUR NUMBER 2 STARTER EVERY ONCE AND A WHILE IS IT????
udontmesswthejohan
7/1/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
“well i had good stuff but they just found some holes and dunked some balls in”
Ha – this is one of my biggest pet peeves. I hate when pitchers resort to this excuse. Very rarely is this (A) actually true, or (B) the real reason for losing a game.
udontmesswthejohan
7/1/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
BTW – this is not specific to Pelfrey, I hate it when any pitcher says it.
CaseStreet
7/1/2009-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
don’t see it as DW calling out Jerry but rather calling out the team.
Joe R
7/1/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
agreed. I see David as the type of guy that isnt sitting there blaming the manager and making sneaky comments to the media. If he thought they were not prepared properly due to the Jerry I’m sure he would have a private conversation with him and just ask him…Why arent we doing this?…why arent we doing that?…etc
Anyway Pelf he better deliver a great game…not a good game…IM WATCHING YOU!!
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
I really, really disagree. Wright has been watching shoddier play than he has ever seen around him and the season is half over.
I think his quote is clearly addressing this and the man most responsible.
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Isn’t the manager the one responsible for how the team plays when it comes to the little things Wright is talking about? And correcting these things?
I respectfully must disagree Case…when he uses the words “prepare” and “preparation” who else is he targeting? Clearly Jerry I think.
Jerry is the one responsible for preparing the team. Or not preparing them while he giggles like Dr Hibbert from the Simpsons after another revolting loss.
Joe R
7/1/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
He is targeting the team. At that level guys mentally prepare and work out on off days, etc in preparation for the games. They know at that level what base to throw the ball to, they know to hit the cut off man, they know to be prepared that the ball may come in their direction, they know how to work counts and take good at bats, they know not to walk the pitcher, they know to throw a waste pitch on 0-2 etc.
Not all preparation is done by the manager. They arent Little Leaguers who need to be reminded every day on the fundamentals.
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Sorry Joe, but what you are saying combined with the sloppy ball we have seen actually proves my side of this debate, I think.
How many guys have gotten thrown out on the bases? How many times have we seen the pitcher walked?
When a team consistently plays as sloppily as this one, if it is not the manager’s job to prepare them better and remind them of fundamentals, whose job is it?
Joe R
7/1/2009-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
The players. Dont see how Jerry is at fauly when players are missing 3rd base…Sorry just dont see it.
sheyheykid
7/1/2009-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
Wright calls out Manuel was gleaned from that quote? Kind of a stretch. A really huge stretch.
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
Geez, do you guys know what “prepare” and “preparation” mean in a baseball context?
It is the manager’s job to prepare the team!
We all want Wright to be a vocal leader, and he finally says something like this, and everyone is downplaying it.
Very weird.
OK, I have said enough here.
Joe R
7/1/2009-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
Yes we know what it means and players prepare without the manager in many ways like I said above. No one is downplaying Wright, at least not me, I love what he said. I feel it was directed at the team more so than the manager.
If he had a problem with Jerry preparing the team I am sure he would talk to Jerry privately and simply ask..Why arent we doing certain things? etc
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Joe—Perhaps Wright HAS mentioned this to Jerry again and again privately, and he is so sick of the third-rate play around him, that now he mentioned it publicly?
Definitely a possibility, no?
Joe R
7/1/2009-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
You never know I guess…Dont believe this would be the case but if this is the case than we might as well throw away the season because if our only core player gives up well….
Joe R
7/1/2009-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
He wouldnt sit there like a 2 year old when the season maybe slipping away and hold these thoughts in his head and then make sneaky comments like a baby imo.
Mr North Jersey
7/1/2009-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
(Off Topic) Santana’s starts in 2009
April
W3-L1 1.10-ERA 32.2-IP 22-H 04-ER 02-HR 09-BB 44-SO
May
W4-L1 2.43-ERA 33.1-IP 30-H 09-ER 03-HR 11-BB 42-SO
June
W2-L4 6.19-ERA 36.1-IP 43-H 25-ER 08-HR 14-BB 18-S0
In 16 starts Santana has given up 4 or more earned runs only 4 times.
Santana has pitched at least 6 in all his starts except for the Yankee
debacle where he pitched 3 innings and Opening Day where he went 5 and 2/3.
Santana has pitched 7 innings in 9 of his 16 starts this year.
CaseStreet
7/1/2009-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
I see how the quote can be construed either way, but I don’t see DW calling out Jerry for the team’s on field mistakes.
How can Wright call out Jerry for F-Mart overrunning a flyball, for Santana throwing the ball to LF, for Murph making bone head plays at 1B, etc.?
I understand Jerry is the guy in charge, but what’s he supposed to say, “Guys, I know ur professionals who’ve been playing this game since u were 5, but I’ll remind you anyway not to make bonehead plays.”
Playing smart baseball, is not a skill you can teach by doing a drill. They know how to play smart baseball. The team just needs to do the little things right.
Joe R
7/1/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Agreed i.e, the Redsox.
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
It is a combination of things.
Guys getting thrown out on the bases again and again, and consistently sloppy baseball.
The incessant and never-ending lineup juggling.
The VERY questionable use of the bullpen.
The excessive bunting.
Leading off a terrible player in Argenis Reyes, when you have Castillo’s .375 OBP batting eighth.
Chuckling to the press after just about every horrible loss, combined with there being zero consequences for consistently shoddy baserunning, sets a questionable tone I think.
Please Case—tell me a strength of Jerry’s.
stickguy
7/1/2009-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
he doesnt actually have any. Other than the Zen thing, and like Torre, that only works if you have more talent (and a team that runs itself) than the other guys.
udontmesswthejohan
7/1/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
I’m not going to come to the defense of Jerry here, but I will say simply that I think there is a correlation b/w the calaber of players we are currently fielding and the type of baseball they are playing.
In short, lesser players play a lesser brand of baseball, if they didn’t they wouldn’t be back ups and lesser players. Unless the manager is exceptional, and I think we can all agree that jerry probably isn’t, he is only as good as the players he has to play.
CaseStreet
7/1/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
not here to defend Jerry. All I said was that DW’s comments don’t seem to be aimed at Jerry. To me, DW was talking about the players not making on-field mistakes. None of the things you mentioned have to do w/ preparation but poor mgmt.
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Fair enough, but I do think that guys getting thrown out on the bases again and again, and consistently sloppy baseball, are in fact very much related to lax preparation and an anything goes/zero repercussions mindset….
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/1/2009-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
Do you think Willie is enjoying this while driving over to the bank with his paycheck from the Mets?
mrbill
7/1/2009-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
Yep, as he SHOULD be. Manuel thought it was going to be so easy without Willie… 180 degree turn from Manuel’s 1st. press. conf. and last night’s. I can’t help but smile.
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/1/2009-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
Have we seen enough of FMart yet?
mrbill
7/1/2009-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
“I think we have enough, but we have to do the little things right,†he said. “We have to prepare the right way. We have to really do things and win based on preparation and based on doing those small things right. We can’t go out there and beat people purely with talent.â€
Blah, blah, blah… I know Manuel’s attitute is not the right one when it comes to the current team. However, how David jogging to 1st base a few games back is Manuel’s fault? How are the physical/mental errors on the field his fault? How was Santana’s throwing error last night his fault?
This quote to me is just meaningless words to the media… When Wright starts backing up his words on the field, what he says will be taken seriously.
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
You are 100% right about Wright not hustling on the bases and he has also gotten thrown out at third a couple of times.
But this again points right at Jerry. No consequences for ANYTHING, and the total acceptance of shoddy play.
When I watched Castillo drop that fly ball, all I could think was that had it been Cano dropping the ball, our guy never would have been hustling around the bases enough to score. He would have been on third.
mrbill
7/1/2009-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
True, i doubt the mets would have scored if Cano dropped the ball. I agree with the fact that Manuel is not the right manager (I never thought he was, even when Willie got fired) and I also think he should be responsible for the team’s performance and the players should share responsibility on their sloppy plays.
I disagree with Manuel’s recent comments about the team where he basically gave up. That is not the right message to send to your already depleted players.
If he sounds like he gave up, the players will adopt that attitute, so will the fans and comes September Citi field will be a ghost town. I think someone from upper management told him to change his tune.
Mr. Mets Butler
7/1/2009-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
If you watch that video again, Wright was red in the face and seemed kind of tight while talking. Was it nerves? Whatever it was….he was calling somebody out? Whether the team or Manuel.
On another point, Jerry needs to make better decisions with the lineup if he wants offensive production. A. Reyes batting first the other night and Tatis second last night, not to mention fourth last week, is beyond my comprehension. You have Castillo with a .375 OBP. Why is he batting eigth?
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/1/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
Can someone remind me why Tatis is still playing?
stickguy
7/1/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Jerry likes him. And Jerry makes out the line up every day. For now.
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/1/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
I think at this point, Reed or Evans should get the start over FMart and Tatis.
I mean what they heck is the difference between Reed and FMart? Reed is a much better defensive player and probably made that catch out in the center field yesterday. FMart is hitting .024 and can’t so crap at the plate. He may have a lot of potential but he doesn’t belong up here.
mrbill
7/1/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Reed, Tatis, Evans, Fmart, Murphy… it doesn’t make a difference.
wannybackstra
7/1/2009-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
In fairness, Martinez has made several very nice plays in CF, including a diving grab on a low liner v. the Yankees and a couple of nice grabs in the gaps. I didn’t see the play last night but as I understand it he slipped.
Mr North Jersey
7/1/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
Santana says:
“Just to let everyone know that we need to play better baseball,”
Manuel says:
“We’ve got enough in here to do what we need to get done. Let’s get it done. I just don’t want us to feel sorry for ourselves. That’s the bottom line.”
Wright says:
“I think we have enough, but we have to do the little things right,â€
“We have to prepare the right way. We have to really do things and win based on preparation and based on doing those small things right. We can’t go out there and beat people purely with talent.â€
I don’t think Wright is calling out Jerry but I can see where he says “We have to really do things and win based on preparation and based on doing those small things right.” can be construed as that but knowing Wright it would be the 1st time he would give a back handed slight to his mgr in the media so I don’t believe his comment was meant to have that effect.
stickguy
7/1/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
I think he was calling out the team (although like with Santana’s rant, he needs to look in the mirror too).
I said last night in the caht, what is the managers job? To put the best team on the field he can based onthe roster, put guys in a positin to succeed, prepare them mentally, manage the bullpen,and make sure they play hard or face the consequences.
Jerry, IMO, is losuy at all these things.
So, if DW was calling out the team, he implicitly was calling out Jerry too, since it is his job definition.
If a manager isn’t accountable for W-L, or how the team plays, what do they need him for? Have a PC in the dugout making decisions, or just let the players decide what to do.
Jerry also lost his sympathy card when he threw the whole team under the bus and went with the “woe is me, we aren’t good enough” angle.
He needs to go by the end of the season, whenther you blame him for this mess or not, since he really isn’t that good. Or more accurately, he is good enough if the team is loaded with talent and healthy, and they hide the fact that he is clueless and likes to way overmanage.
Mr North Jersey
7/1/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
“Jerry also lost his sympathy card when he threw the whole team under the bus and went with the “woe is me, we aren’t good enough†angle.”
Circle gets the square.
charlies
7/1/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
I guess Jerry really feels the Mets have enough based on his decision to sit Wright and Sheffield today.
Cora
Tatis
Church
F-Mart
Murphy
Schneider
Castillo
Argenis
That’s your 1-8 when you have lost five in a row???
prismo
7/1/2009-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Man, that’s DISGUSTING. Not one of those guys would be in the 1-5 spots in most lineups in the bigs…maybe even 1-6 spots.
charlies
7/1/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
It’s nuts. Take the 25 man roster, minus the pitchers (12), minus the starters (8), you get five slots for bench players. The Mets have six bench players in the starting lineup (I’m giving Church and Schneider credit as starters). They shouldn’t have six bench players on the roster!
wannybackstra
7/1/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
David Wright must be worn out from having to run all 4 bases at once finally.
dirtysanchez
7/1/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
FMART batting CLEANUP…..YOUR KIDDING!!?? ugh….jerry has quit
charlies
7/1/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
no, no…i was just putting together a list of the eight guys starting today. wasn’t really putting up a lineup. but, hey, why not, he finally hit a homer!
fongy2
7/1/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Sending over half your team to the
WBC for 3 weeks during spring training
EQUALS no time for fundamentals during
camp and no time to properly get in
shape EQUALS sloppy play and a team
full of injured players.
Benefit to the NY Met baseball team
NONE.
CaseStreet
7/1/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
it’s been a while. I wonder if the WBC caused global warming, too. Can I blame the economy on the WBC, too?
I was late for work the other day. WBC?
Blame it on the WBC Yeah Yeah
charlies
7/1/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
well, to be fair, you can’t completely discount the impact.
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Last WBC the Met guys had good seasons….I don’t think the WBC has anything to do with it.
And the guy we were most worried about at the time pitching 4 out saves, KRod, has been healthy and amazing.
I agree with you here Case.
I think we are all searching for answers, while the injuries clearly are the main cause. Jerry’s decisions just seem to exacerbate an already horrible situation where we have no margin for error.
Sitting Wright today when he seemed last night to be getting hot again is yet another really questionable move.
fongy2
7/1/2009-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
And Brock,
really,with the
players currently on this roster how
can you expect
to win?
Right now
outside of KRod
and Johan THIS
is an Expansion
teams roster.
Combined w/a
run-of-the-mill
Mgr and Coaching staff
AND WHAT??
We’re gonna beat the yankees or even
a team like the Brewers??
CaseStreet
7/1/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
look at this list of WBC players by ML team. Teams that had many players on the WBC don’t have the problems the Mets have. There’s no correlation.
http://www.mlb.com/wbc/2009/rosters/index.jsp?season=2009&&sort=mlbclub
fongy2
7/1/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
None,zero,zip.
No correlation,
huh case?
None at all,no posibility.
None at all.
You sure case?
CaseStreet
7/1/2009-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
fine, very little. happy?
wannybackstra
7/1/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
I don’t care for the WBC either. But blaming this season on it is silly. As Case points out, every team had players at the WBC and I don’t see everyteam looking like the Bad News Bears as a result.
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Agreed 100%
fongy2
7/1/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Not “blaming”
BUT pointing
out that it
certainly didnt
help either with injuries
OR properly
preparing the
team for the
long season.
Especially with
certain players
i.e. a 37y/o
1Bman w/a bad hip,a RP w/a
bad arm AND
a certain Mexican Pitcher
w/a bad head.
fongy2
7/1/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
What other team sent even
half the players we did?
Mr North Jersey
7/1/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Did you see this video clip of Wright’s post game interview I didnt see this on SNY Broadcast but at the 40 second mark Wright is asked by reporter about Jerry’s statement that saying he felt they had enough to get things done in this room and if he agrees with that statement. The interesting thing is Wright doesn’t only agree but says if anyone in this team doesn’t feel that way then we don’t want them here. Can that be a slight at Jerry also for crying for help all week allowing players to start adopting the same mindset?
http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2009/07/mets_wright_we_have_to_continu.html
charlies
7/1/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
No, I don’t think so. Wright was asked if he agreed with Jerry and he said yes and if anyone doesn’t he should be there.
metsfan4decades
7/1/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
If you need a manager to tell a professional ML ball team they need to play sound fundamental baseball and keep their head in the game – well then I don’t even know what to say.
They are playing not up, not down but exactly where their level of talent is on the team right now. And the frustration is showing. From those still left standing that expected a better season than this, to those brought up trying to help and failing miserably…..
steveo
7/1/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Is it fair to say that jerrys ghetto gangstas are now better nameed the insane clown posse
wannybackstra
7/1/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
There’s no doubt Jerry is a buffoon who says one thing but does another. And today’s lineup should be grounds for his dismissal as if he hasn’t already proven deserving of his pink slip. (David Wright finally hits a home run and now Jerry decides he needs a break??? C’mon!!!!)
BUT, it’s either over-analysis or a real stretch to say that David intended to call out the manager with his quote.
GravediggerHebner
7/1/2009-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
All I know is, the Wright quote is certainly open to interpretation so we could (and should!) argue respectfully about it for hours, but to me the bottom line is these guys are professional baseball players most if not all of whom have been playing baseball since shortly after they learned to walk.
That they don’t know how to run the bases, field the ball, work a count, hit a cutoff man, etc., is not Jerry’s fault. It’s the fault of everyone along their route to adulthood who pampered then and told them they were great because they had one shining skill and ignored all their flaws, passing those flaws forward.
Did anyone seriously expect that Jerry Manuel should have done what no manager or coach in any of these players’ lives had cared or bothered to do before?
So yes we can certainly roast Jerry for his ridiculous lineups, and his odd pinch hitting and bullpen decisions, but I cannot crucify him for the ineptitude and ignorance and lack of hustle of the players. If anything the players should be sent to “the instructional league” and broken down like military plebes.
CaseStreet
7/1/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
+1
metsfan4decades
7/1/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Well said. I couldn’t agree more. See my post above.
Stop treating these guys like they don’t have a responsible brain cell in their head. They’re grown adults getting paid to play a game most only dream of.
Oh…and Jack Clark is a whiny brat that still holds a grudge going back over 20 years…..
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/sports/baseball/01clark.html?_r=2
GravediggerHebner
7/1/2009-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
While I was slowly typing you were saying it first and more succinctly. So let me say that it is I that agrees with you!
steveo
7/1/2009-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
I think to much is being made of this calling out thing .These guys are big leagers if they can’t play which a select few can’t they should be sent down to the minors where they belong .The manager just manages what he’s given and to be fair to him he has minor leaguers that don’t even have a solid position in the minors let alone the majors.1 major leager who is playing a position that in his 10 year carrer has played less than 10 times,another minor league corner outfeilder playing center.Now mind you it is his decesion to put these players where they play and those have been bad decisions but his options aren’t that good .The bottom line is the mets don’t have much offense now and should be playing reed a major league feilder at center he has no bat but that’s his position he was brought in to play that position. Tatis shuold be playing 1st sheffeild should be platooning with a guy like Emil Brown who is also a major leaguer not a good one but a major leaguer Murphy should be the back up 1st basemen Martinez and Evans should be in triple A .Having double A guys playing major roles in a high salary highly hyped team is just a reciepe for disastor which is what we have.They need the best defense that they can put out there. Losing because of lack of offense is excusable and not as discraseful as losing due to little league defence.Again Jerry aint no saint but his options are Omars decisions.
stickguy
7/1/2009-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
While I agree in general that playing guys out of positin leads to more bone head plays, F Mart was a CF in the minors.
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
“That they don’t know how to run the bases, field the ball, work a count, hit a cutoff man, etc., is not Jerry’s fault.”
So, what is the solution? Who implements it? Or do we just simply accept a dramatic decline in the team’s fundamentals?
GravediggerHebner
7/1/2009-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know what the obvious solution might be, but I know what it isn’t: blame and fire Jerry.
There are good reasons to get rid of Jerry, I think everyone (or at least “most”) recognize this. But for this lack of fundies Jerry is NOT responsible.
The solution is a long slow slog. Gradually purge the organization of the half-assed players while simultaneously scouting and drafting and trading and signing free agents who do play the game the right way. But it’s not going to happen in July, it’s going to take years, and I don’t trust Omar to do it.
It was noted in an article posted in the comment section (I believe by Wanny) that the Mets DO NOT draft players that are considered to be “baseball guys,” they draft “tools guys” and try to teach them baseball. Think Jose Reyes. So what they get are a bunch of superb athletes who don’t know what the hell they’re doing.
Unless/until that philosophy is changed (their is a glimmer of hope, apparently the 2B James Ewing they drafted this year is a “baseball guy”) this is the type of team we’re going to have.
fongy2
7/1/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Very good post
Heb! I can see
you’re coming
around:)
Kingman 26
7/1/2009-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
Great points….
I don’t “blame” Jerry so much as strongly feel that when we have been decimated by injuries, we have zero margin for error, and even leaving the issue with fundamentals aside, Jerry’s decisions do not seem to put the team in the best position to win.
GravediggerHebner
7/1/2009-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
Absotively Posolutely
johan4cy
7/1/2009-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
Ok, is wright really going to sit today… because at this point we cant afford to just throw away games. i dont care if the pitcher is jose lima, yovanni gallardo, or cy young. this team needs to win every game it can and thats the bottom line.
wannybackstra
7/1/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
It’s been clear all season that Jerry never got the memo that the Mets missed the playoffs by one game each of the last two seasons. And he’s clearly not aware that this season is teetering on the verge of disaster.
GravediggerHebner
7/1/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
All I know is, the Wright quote is certainly open to interpretation so we could (and should!) argue respectfully about it for hours, but to me the bottom line is these guys are professional baseball players most if not all of whom have been playing baseball since shortly after they learned to walk.
That they don’t know how to run the bases, field the ball, work a count, hit a cutoff man, etc., is not Jerry’s fault. It’s the fault of everyone along their route to adulthood who pampered them because they had one shining skill and ignored all their flaws, passing those flaws forward.
Did anyone seriously expect that Jerry Manuel should have done what no manager or coach in any of these players’ lives had cared or bothered to do before?
So yes we can certainly roast Jerry for his ridiculous lineups, and his odd pinch hitting and bullpen decisions, but I cannot crucify him for the ineptitude and ignorance and lack of hustle of the players.
wannybackstra
7/1/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Proud of this one, eh?
fongy2
7/1/2009-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
And to all those wanting Omar to fire
his 2nd MgR in a yr,
Who does he bring in and how will it help??
Just askin’
wannybackstra
7/1/2009-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
It’s not going to help until he gets healthy players back. (I know you somehow blame the GM for players getting injured)
But you are not suggesting that Jerry is an adequate manager under any circumstance, are you?
He should be fired, not because a new manager will help them immediately, but because it is clear he is not capable.
That said, the Wilpons will not pay Manuel, Randolph and a third manager this year. I’d like to see Bobby V or Buck Showalter next year, though.
stickguy
7/1/2009-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
He is here until the end of the year at least. But I have no doubt they will cut him lose in the off season as part of a general overhaul of the team.
Willie is off the books after this year, and Jerry is paid relatvie chump change for a manager.
I really want to see a new guy with a fresh attitude and enthousiasm, and a plan of attack. Not another career coach or washed up retread without a clue.
Not even sure I want a “big name” with history (say, valentine, or even Showwalter). Lot’s of baggage and/or history comes with a guy like that.
Essentially I would like to strip the team somewhat down to the foundation, and build it the right way, instead of putting band aids over the rotted floor joists.
wannybackstra
7/1/2009-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
As long as this team has Wright, beltran, Reyes, K-Rod and Santana, you have a chance to win with a good supporting cast of role players and solid leadership.
This team doesn’t need to be stripped down.
stickguy
7/1/2009-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
stripped down does not mean “trading the core”. Really I would like to see a new focused leadership, and to clean out the dead wood and get better supporting pieces.
Basically what you are suggesting I believe.
less of the reclaimation guys and not ready rookies, more of the veteran role players that can actually play.
And guys that play hard, know what they are doing, etc.
And of course, starting with a manager that can plan correctly and execute it.
GravediggerHebner
7/1/2009-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
Whoops, I lost my internet connection and when I came back it was here twice. I’d delete it but then the thread gets messed up.
prismo
7/1/2009-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
WRIGHT IS IN THE LINEUP
CaseStreet
7/1/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
is he batting leadoff?
mrbill
7/1/2009-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
What’s the difference?
metsfan4decades
7/1/2009-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
I hope so and it doesn’t surprise me. If there is one thing we’ve learned from Jerry is you can’t really take anything he says as gospel from one day to the next…..
fongy2
7/1/2009-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Hmmm,sounds alot like
our GM, no?
There's Always '09
7/1/2009-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
We have an athletic team!
charlies
7/1/2009-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Wright is in the lineup today, but no Sheff.
There's Always '09
7/1/2009-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
Nice! Good to see FMart back out there today. Figured after hitting a home run last night, he’d be sent down today.
Mr North Jersey
7/1/2009-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
Listen Manuel made his bed with his remarks the last few weeks.
Was he right about many of his remarks yes, but I said it then and I’ll say it now it was something you don’t hear a manager say. Managers say things like no one will feel sorry for us so we have to go out there and just find a way to win.
Things like that is what you expect. It’s one of those times where being honest is not the best course of action.
Now he seems to have a change of heart and says what he had to say all the time. If Manuel comes out and says he takes responsibility or that it was a mistake for contributing into this we are not good enough attitude that seemed to start making its way through the clubhouse due to some of his woe is me remarks you have to move on then and focus on the Big Picture which is winning a World Series.
If he says he said nothing wrong it will show a man that can’t own up to his mistakes and means if the manager has a lack of accountability then how do you expect players to?
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