“Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa.” Casey Stengel
Here’s what you missed on Thursday, July 16, 2009:
- This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty 7-16-09 by rustyjr
- Morning Open Thread by CaseStreet
- Mets in the Papers y CaseStreet
- Draft And Follow 7-16-09 by GravediggerHebner
- NLEC News: Fish Guts Joins us and completes us by mrose
- Gameday Weather 7-16-09 by prismo
- An In-Depth Look At… Derek Lowe. by QnsNative718
- Injury Update: Reyes, Beltran, Delgado, Maine, F-Mart by mrose
- Game Thread: Mets (42-45) vs Braves (43-45) by dirtysanchez
- Post Game: Hair Of The Dog by GravediggerHebner
You got something to say? Say it on The Real Dirty Mets Blog!
207 comments
Kingman 26
7/17/2009-7:54am at 7:54 am (UTC -4)
To paraphrase what Ty Webb said to Al Czervik—-we’re not….we’re not good……we stink.
darknova306
7/17/2009-8:16am at 8:16 am (UTC -4)
A team will stink when it’s using a AAA lineup, 60% of its rotation is grade D meat, most of the core players are hurt. Not to mention a lousy manager, overworked bullpen, reliance on a reliever that can’t get outs (Parnell), etc.
mrbill
7/17/2009-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
I can’t say i was surprised about the loss. Sadly, I expected it. Two hits after the 5th inning, two!!
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
THe bottom line is, we have a chance to score runs in 3 out of every 9 innings. That is before the inning starts. I don’t know about you guys, but Cora,Schneider, Pitcher doesn’t exactly give me confidence in our ability to score. Nor does Pagan,Castillo,Wright. If Wright, Sheff, and Frency don’t hit, we can’t score. That’s it. Period. The end. Sayanora. See you next year. Adios. Au revoir. Shalom. Ballgame over. 2009 Season Over. The Mets lose. Theeeeeeee Mets Looooooooooooose.
mrbill
7/17/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. No confidence at all… How about Schneider not blocking the plate?????????? Embarrassing.
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
Forget about confidence. I’m talking reality. We just simply don’t stand a chance. Look at that 6-2 in the order. It’s pathetic. Not one guy that can jack one. Murphy, Cora,Schneider, Pitcher, Pagan, Castillo.
I’m not saying those guys aren’t major league players. I’m just saying there is ZERO punch in this lineup.
This lineup needs a Hawaiian Punch!!!
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
Maybe Benny Agbayani can bring his manager with him.
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
I’m disappointed. Was hoping we could trade for Vic and hang him from the wall in left center only when the other team is batting so there is a chance someone will hit him. We all know that nobody on our team can reach the wall.
charlie_s
7/17/2009-8:26am at 8:26 am (UTC -4)
6 games under .500 – the worst since the Art Howe era. Congrats Omar and team!
prismo
7/17/2009-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
You have to give the offense a pass for all the major DL stints.
The pitching shouldn’t be let off so easy though. Aside from Putz, Maine is the only valuable pitcher to be significantly injured this season. I still don’t buy the Ollie DL crud – I think that was related to his lack of pre-season conditioning and lack of mental focus/brainpower. But most teams have a starting pitcher who ends up injured at some point, so that’s Maine for the Mets. That means that Omar has really failed on the pitching front.
I do believe the team wouldn’t be 6 under .500 if Omar had made an offensive acquisition a couple/few weeks ago though. Oh well.
Joe R
7/17/2009-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
I said this from day one that HOW from one good half of pitching last season you become the Number 2 starter on the Mets!!?? I said we have THREE unproven pitchers in the middle of our rotation with one being a guy I have ZERO respect for and am embarassed he wears a Met jersey. Yes thats Ollie, I hate the fact, maybe Im old school, that we have a guy like this representing our city and team! Anyway…Pelfrey,Perez, and Maine? All unproven. All in my mind have overachieved at one point and thats what Omar seems to focus on?? Not the years of inconsistency but the ONE great playoff start, etc..
The Marlins and Braves have very good pitching and I think if the Braves pick up a big bat they win the division with their pitching. They have Hudson coming back and the other 2, including the guy we are facing tonight, are awesome.
CaseStreet
7/17/2009-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
I don’t blame Omar for not getting Lowe, but I wish he could’ve gotten Vazquez and Jackson.
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
I would have settled for Sonnastine.
mrbill
7/17/2009-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
You are spot on re starting rotation. I’ve never thought Pelfrey and Maine are good enough (at least not yet). You add Perez to that combination and what do you get? a VERY weak rotation. Aside from Santana, the team cannot count on any other pitcher to step up.
This season was doomed ritght from the start.
Joe R
7/17/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
I agree and I swear Im not Monday morning QBing. They really are unproven guys and its really really getting old quick to see Pelf have mental farts on the mound and then listen to him postgame SIMPLY admitting he gets the YIPS!! What!?! What is that? Your a grown ass man! He really he is a dumb guy I think. Balks are one thing but to look at Murphy at first about 6′ away from the bag and 2 seconds later try to throw over?? Yeah i know he was trying one of those timing plays like they do at 2nd lol
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
Well, to paraphrase Pelf’s college coach:
“This guy sucks. He was better in college.”
Joe R
7/17/2009-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
So PLEASE can someone convince me we will go 50-24 to get to 92 wins, and before you miss the point fine 48-26 if you think 90 wins will do it…..I really am a positive person and a positive Met fan. I already said I wont concede the season til we are 10 games back in about a week lol but please tell me how ANYONE HERE who is realistic taking into account all the factors we face, and how we have played, how we have even a slither of a chance??
I mean 50-24 is most likely impossible if our team was 100% healthy tomorrow! Previously I ignored all the post and some were on here even a month ago that it was over and lets become a seller? I am 97% ready to become a seller and do whatever it takes to build the best team in Mets history next season!
mrbill
7/17/2009-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
” I wont concede the season til we are 10 games back”
So, this mean you will concede the season on Monday morning…. lol
Joe R
7/17/2009-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
Lol yes sadly it looks that way.
CaseStreet
7/17/2009-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
I could see us going 85-77.
9-5 for the rest of July, then +8 for Aug and Sept would get us to 85-77.
However, the Mets have the easiest schedule, so with the right moves and some good play, we can have a strong comeback.
The Mets are taking it!
mrbill
7/17/2009-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
You are close to my prediction (80-85)… lol
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
We will go 50-24 to start the 2010 season.
jaded1983
7/17/2009-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
I posted this in the post game report by accident…
Last night was a straight up loss, no two ways about it. It is another example (in a long list of them) why we need a legitimate power bat in the lineup. Lets start brainstorming possible solutions for next year and see where the team could be piece by piece.
lineup:
Reyes SS
Castillo 2B
Beltran CF
Power Bat LF
DWright 3B
Murphy 1B (yes I believe he will be there, and too many here are selling this kid short. he is a gap hitter which is perfect for citi and will only get better with experience. fanbase patience is what the mets need)
Frenchy RF
Santos / Thole / FA or Trade C
Pitcher
Rotation:
Santana
Pelf
Maine
Ollie
Niese/Gee/Nieve
Bullpen:
Krod
Putz (will they pick up his option and keep or trade him?)
Parnell
Stokes
Feliciano
Green
Misch?
Dessens?
(back end bullpen guys are always in flux)
Bench:
Cora (hope they pick him up again)
Pagan
2 more bench guys (Sheff wouldnt be bad on a 1yr deal here)
So to sum it all up we can potentially be looking at (for 2010) the need for:
C
LF
2 Bench guys
Set up man
Would be nice, but is not necessarily at the top of the list
Top rotation starting pitcher.
Ill look at some players throughout the day, but I cede to you guys as there are plenty of guys with more baseball accumen here than I have.
thoughts?
mrbill
7/17/2009-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
I like your lineup except for Murphy. I don’t trust him to be an everyday player yet and, I definitely think the team needs a top rotation starting pitcher. The current rotation is weak. They are all question marks except for Santana of course.
jaded1983
7/17/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
I agree about murphy, I should have stated that the caveat with him is we get a LEGIT bat for LF which would turn murph’s singles/doubles into runs.
Some of the main reasons I like murph at 1B is that he is a pretty good (not great) defender there and will get better. Is young, drives the ball to the gaps, and probably one of the most important aspects for the offseason, he is CHEAP. No money spent on him, no talent given up (either through the draft or trade) to acquire a 1B.
Take all the money we have coming off the books, Omar, and spend it on a bat and pitching.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
With a good second half, Murph can restore the faith the front office had in him in the first place.
However, he’s running out of time because once Delgado returns he’s got no place to play.
I don’t see how he can be penciled in as next year’s 1B if he doesn’t prove something this year. Therefore, I’d say his future with the Mets depends almost solely on his performance for the next month. Jerry would be wise to let him sink or swim during that time.
udontmesswthejohan
7/17/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Well, if they continue to fall further back, maybe they tell Delgado not to rush back. I dunno. I’ve been thinking about this for a couple of weeks now. I was a really big Murphy supporter and still think he can be a good player. i think he is definetly improving at first base, the thing is, you just can’t go into next season with him as a question mark. They need to determine whether or not he is legit. If he is and they get another power bat, then you can carry his lack of HR power, but as currently consitituted, you just can’t have a guy at first hitting 5 HRs…not with DW hitting 5 as well.
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
Oh, you mean like Roy Halladay?
If the projection is to have Niese/Gee/Nieve as the 5th starter next year, with the same other 4 cast of characters in front of them, I think we’re an 85-90 win team. Adding a pitcher makes us 90-100.
Joe R
7/17/2009-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
I can live with Murphy and hoping Frenchy grows up and stops swinging at everything that isnt thrown at his head. I mean i know players try to do too much when they return to play their old team but Frenchy admitted he was trying to swing for the fences?? IDK the fact that he doesnt realize that HR’s rarely come when you try for them and the fact that a double in the gap with runners on basically serves the same purpose is beyond me.
If we do keep Frenchy and Murphy in the lineup that guy be pick up needs to be a legimate 30 Hr 100 RBI guy…No exceptions! No old guys either. i have wanted Jermaine Dye here for the past 2 seasons simply because he seemed to be available but that boat has sailed. Hes old and dont care if he hits 50 HR’s this year. When he comes to us he wont lol.
Lasty we need a real deal legitimate NUMBER 2 starter. This way when the soap opera starts with Pelf, Maine, and Ollie we may be able to weather it.
jaded1983
7/17/2009-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
All good points. So Omar needs to pick up a Legit bat for LF and a #2. The rest of the positions C, bench, back end bullpen can be filled within, or guys on short term dealss.
Could Bedard be an option? Halladay in the offseason (if the jays dont move him prior)
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Unless the Phils will trade us Halladay, I don’t see it happening.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
I think Bedard is an UFA after the season.
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
What does he play basketball or hockey?
udontmesswthejohan
7/17/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Joe, I wouldn’t hold my breath re: Frenchy. That trade basically consisted of the swap of two guys who have a lot of talent, but are going to be very frustrating for the rest of their careers. I was no Church fan becauase I didn’t see the up side, at least with Frenchy he is younger, but again I;m not holding my breath.
trs86
7/17/2009-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
I don’t like it. We need upgrades at LF, 1B, and C and all you are doing is adding an aging LF and going with what we have. We need a reliable SP and all you are doing is adding Niese. Our bench is fine, one of the best in baseball. There is not a great LF out there so you are going to need average power from 1B, LF and Catcher.
Something like Molina, LaRoche, and Huff.
jaded1983
7/17/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
Well i didnt specify anyone for LF (if you mean Sheff, I only advocated him for a bench spot/righty power PH)
Are those three guys attainable? What would we need to give up? Who would be that pitcher?
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
Omar is going to have to be more creative than that.
If the FA market only has Molina, LaRoche and Huff (Huff is far from a solution for 2010 — his only value would be as a band aid for this year) then Omar will have to work the trade market.
And perhaps he will have to identify some younger players who are blocked by veterans, i.e. Kyle Blanks types (though maybe not him specifically).
trs86
7/17/2009-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
Wanny I think we will have to trade for the pitcher so I would rather solve the lineup in FA.
I could do with out Huff, will depend on what the others cost.
Molina and Laroche will MOST LIKELY only cost around 15 million.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
If Bedard is a free agent, you might be able to get that #2 the easy way — not that he doesn’t come with an abundance of risks but he’s a legit #2.
You’re right that those two guys would cost about $15 — they get $13 together this year.
You know how I feel about Molina but I would take LaRoche if we had to.
I’d rather be able to sign Bedard or another legit #2 and be creative in obtaining power elsewhere.
But we’ll see. It’s not a big free agent year.
mrbill
7/17/2009-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
Dirty, this is for you….
From Wright: “It doesn’t matter what the Phillies do if we don’t take care of our own business. It’s not even important to watch what those guys do. We have to make our own pushes.â€
David Wright, my man…..lol
udontmesswthejohan
7/17/2009-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
Look Wright often gives cliched answers, but what’s wrong with this one? It’s 100% on the mark. at this point, the Phillies should be the least of the Mets worries. They need to clean up their own house before they can worry about anyone else.
mrbill
7/17/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Obviously you didn’t get it. It might be because you are NOT Dirtysanchez? Jeez
udontmesswthejohan
7/17/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Oh my bad, I guess I was wrong feeling I could respong to a public message posted on the INTERNET – dweeb.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Hopefully Livan has a good start and can boost his trade value. He should be traded regardless of where the Mets are in the standings as Niese appears ready for another shot and Maine is relatively close to a return.
It’s not time to give up on this season yet but it’s time to start worrying about next season on a parallel track.
If Omar can get something for the system for Livan then he has to do it. I don’t see Niese as a significant drop off from Livan at this point anwyay.
Sheff may have some value too but he can only be traded if we give up on this season. There is no apparent replacement.
Joe R
7/17/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
Agreed! When Omar’s team goes in the war room, half the strategy should be for getting a big bat this year to help and the other half should be how we can trade our guys to maximize returns.
I would rather we fall 12 back within the next 2 weeks then hang around 7 back all the way through. This way we can significantly improve and build our farm system in a couple of months before the deadline and develop the best strategy for the next 3-5 years and put 2006-2009 in the REAR VIEW MIRROR!!
gategem
7/17/2009-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Who do you want to trade that will bring back true value in return? Do you really believe that Sheff and Livan will bring anything of consequence back even in prospects? When teams become sellers they may make some outstanding talent available for top prospects. Are you ready to trade Santana?
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
No.
But Livan and Sheff might return some good but lower level prospects.
Teams will trade value for guys like that but not guys who will come back to haunt them in the next year or two.
I would bet for Livan the Mets could get two toolsy Single A guys who are a ways away.
Joe R
7/17/2009-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
Wait Wanny!! Your not ready to trade Johan! lol
Agreed what is the downside in getting what you can for guys that will have no part in 2010?
Joe R
7/17/2009-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
Its very simple not that complicated..Any player Omar feels will not be part of 2010 trade and get what you can for him.
Im sorry i thought it went without saying that naturally we wouldnt trade Sheffield for a high school prospect.
CaseStreet
7/17/2009-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
Anyone see this baseball prospectus article:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9026
suggests, going after Max Ramirez, Aubrey Huff, or DeRosa and Garko
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
Read in the Post that Beltran doesn’t even have a timetable yet and microfracture hasn’t been ruled out. I’m saying 3:2 that Beltran has microfracture surgery and instead of coming back next July, he will be out for the whole season because we delayed it.
Reyes may be back at the end of July. Delgado is still on track for mid-August. I’m out for the season with two broken eyeballs from watching this sorry bunch. Forget about getting guys back. It will be too late unless they go on a 10 game win streak starting tonight. Need to beat the teams in front of you.
mrbill
7/17/2009-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
I’m out for the season with two broken eyeballs from watching this sorry bunch.
Ha ha ha
mrbill
7/17/2009-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
unless they go on a 10 game win streak starting tonight…
This is even funnier…
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
OK fine. Maybe we can win 1 in a row? Or even 1 of our next 2?
mrbill
7/17/2009-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
If Santana is pitching, MAYBE… lol
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
If Santana is pitching MAYBE we can be tied going into the 9th inning 1-1. I’ll sign up for that every day.
Joe R
7/17/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Yeah Im pretty much there as far as putting this season to bed. Maybe the BASEBALL GODS will be kind and look at the heart wrenching past 3 seasons and bless us with a simple 10 game win streak and GIVE US A SHOT TO COMPETE. Like Dirty said following last night’s game…
“ITS JUST NOT FAIR”
Lol…I mean we dont get injuries we get hit squads coming into our clubhouse to take out half the team.
We dont make little errors…we miss 3rd base and drop pop ups against our hated cross town rivals!
We dont have a guy who balks every once in a while…We have a guy who looks at first to see the 1B 10′ from the bag and 2 seconds later procedes to try to throw over.
We dont have a medical staff that misses disgnosis by a week…We have a staff that proclaims a guy day to day and fast forward 2 months later and he needs to learn how to acclerate all over again lol
Finally we hit 2 homeruns in a year most of us thought we wouldnt hit another…And the APPLE refuses to come up for the fans. In typical METS management fashion the reason given was it takes 45 seconds to recharge…OK fair enough and I get not raising the apple during the next batter or even during that half inning to not embarass the Reds but HOW ABOUT WITH 35,000 ppl chanting for it DO the right thing and raise it in between inning!!
mrbill
7/17/2009-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
We also have catchers that are afraid to block the plate and other players who are afraid to slide.
Joe R
7/17/2009-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
OMG you are right!! lol I forgot about the players that want a pristine clean jersey at the end of the game!
mrbill
7/17/2009-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
“players that want a pristine clean jersey at the end of the game!”
That would include Delgado… lol
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Well, you saw what happens when Delgado slides.
darknova306
7/17/2009-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, it’s been a perfect storm of crap this season. I don’t even know what to say anymore. I’d like to believe that Omar will improve the team in ways that will keep us competitive for a few years, but my faith in him is minimal.
I think the deal with the apple not coming up pretty much summed up the season.
Joe R
7/17/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
I really dont know, and Im being objective, how smart and saavy Omar is. I would have to believe he is not an idiot who managed to convince 2 organizations that he could be a GM. But on the otherhand, and I will admit maybe its because he speaks poorly, I dont see him building a long term successful team. Maybe he can make a good trade even a blockbuster but Im not sure I see him building something special! I can be wrong.
trs86
7/17/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Because he speaks poorly?
Joe R
7/17/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Yes maybe because he isnt that articulate my judgement gets cloudy. I know plenty of ppl I have met in my life that by talking to them you walk away with the impression they are dopes only to find out they are very intelligent human beings.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
Funny, the article suggest Reyes is out for a month — it was published on June 8, 2009.
I don’t care much for Garko, who is a DH type that doesn’t hit enough for the job.
Max Ramirez would be worth a shot as a C for next year. He was nasty at AA two years ago.
trs86
7/17/2009-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
OK so assuming our current fortunes continue, I see a lot of waiver deals with this group.
I think Delgado, Wagner, Putz all could pass through waivers. I would trade Livan, Tatis, Schnieder, etc as soon as possible. They won’t net much but if you chip in some cash you may get some lower level minor league help.
We all are tired of Tatis but as far as a bench player, teams could do much worse. Take a look at the Phillies bench, LOL they would take Tatis. Teams are always looking for a catcher with pop and again we chip in a little money and he becomes more attractive.
trs86
7/17/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
And Sheffield of course too.
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
Shouldn’t your foam finger be holding up four fingers? As in, “We’re Number 4!”
trs86
7/17/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Shouldn’t you go back to Always ’49?
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Maybe, but can I’ll still have the J-Roll money shot for my pic.
mrbill
7/17/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Haaa, good one…
gategem
7/17/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
I’d be willing to take a chance that Wagner and Putz would not want to stay with the team in an effort to be a closer somewhere else. The draft choices should be better than any waiver talent you could get. The Wilpons also have to think about attendance and next year’s advance sales. So I don’t think you will see the white flag just yet.
trs86
7/17/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
I would be terrified of offering either arbitration. True they won’t get to close here but they will make a lot more money considering the injury history. Wagner with arbitration would make 10 million plus, on the FA market he maybe gets 5?
CaseStreet
7/17/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
yeah, but you know Wags wants to close, especially at the end of his career when he’s already made his money. I doubt he’d take arbitration.
trs86
7/17/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Maybe. I would still be scared. I guess worst case is we offer it and he accepts it and we have to eat 5 million to trade him.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Putz will be a type B free agent. I believe that nets one sandwich pick.
I think trading him could net multiple prospects who are closer to the majors than a sandwich pick (remember the Mets will rarely go over slot).
Then again, David Wright was a sandwich pick.
gategem
7/17/2009-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
Since Putz is coming off of surgery I don’t think he will net you much in the way of top prospects. Also the Wilpons will find themselves somewhere between a rock and a hard place. They have to woo back the bandwagon fans. Just like politicians try to attract the independents to win, baseball owners need the bandwagon fans for the revenue sources they provide. How do you get these fans back?
trs86
7/17/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Problem is you have to pick up that option to trade him. You would have to chip in a lot of cash to make it attractive.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
That’s all fair because by the time the non-waiver trade deadline passes we’ll know for sure whether this team needs to keep anyone around.
If the Mets win a few games this week and next, it’ll make the decision a little murkier before the non-waiver deadline.
And I agree that the best thing to do would be to trade them all for just about anything that will at least supply the lower levels with more talent. Putz might return something more than that if he throws well early on.
trs86
7/17/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Plan for next year….
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Trade Maine. Get a legitimate #2 starter (either by sliding Santana to the #2 spot and getting Halladay or by getting a legit #2 starter). Enter the season with a roation of: Santana,Other Starter (fingers crossed for Halladay), Pelfrey, Niese/Holt/Mejia/whichever is still standing after Halladay trade, Ollie.
C-Thole/Santos
1B-Nick Johnson
2B-Castillo
SS-Reyes (if his hammy is better)
3B-Wright
CF-Pagan; Beltran will be out with microfracture surgery
LF-Holliday or Rios (if we get him in the Halladay deal)
RF-Frankfurter
BP – K-Rod, Putz, Feliciano, Parnell, Green, Kunz, Need a lefty
trs86
7/17/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Maine will not have enough value to merit the trade.
trs86
7/17/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
And unless you chip in 10 million the we don’t have you are not trading Perez and are you picking up Putz expensive option?
Hell looking at this are we made of money?
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Nope. I’ve got Ollie in our rotation. I know he’s not going anywhere. Putz and his expensive option can be traded, ala what we didn’t do with Catlos this offseason.
Back to Maine. Let’s face it. John Maine is John Maine. He is no more than a decent #3 starter on a decent team or a good #4 starter on a good team. His value will never be high. Why not trade him for low level minor league players and build some organizational depth? He’s just not really that good and not worth the headaches with his shoulder. I like him, but won’t miss him.
trs86
7/17/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
Why? You think we won’t need a #3/4 starter that is cheap?
Joe R
7/17/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Yes everyone, and it should have been Omar’s plan this year, needs to simply move down a spot not trade them. We need a number 2 and the rest move back a spot.
Joe R
7/17/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Agreed only Omar and us as fans think Pelf, Ollie, and Maine have high value lol I think management has managed to brain wash us.
prismo
7/17/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Pardon me if that lineup doesn’t make me happy. Actually, I hate it. (not the order, I know you just listed them by position – but the players)
trs86
7/17/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. Not much to it.
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
What’s wrong with the lineup? You don’t like having three leadoff hitters? (Pagan, Reyes, Castillo, Wright for his OBP)
trs86
7/17/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
LOL, I hope you are joking.
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
I am joking. But all three will be in the lineup next year if Beltran is out.
Joe R
7/17/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Pagan? Yes he has played well in the short amount of time we have seen him but Santos also looked like a young Mike Piazza lol
Lets see how Pagan finishes out the year before we declare him our starting CF for 2010! Thats not what my dreams have envisioned for opening day!
There's Always '09
7/17/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Well, I got news for you – if Beltran has the microfracture surgery as I expect, you’re gonna get a steady diet of a platoon between Jeremy Reed and Angel Pagan.
But I do have good news for you. Actually two bits of good news. We’ll have an Angel in the outfield and I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico.
Joe R
7/17/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Lol Funny….but the 2nd opinion Beltran got from his own doctor, who is a micro surgery specialist, said he doesnt need it. Didnt he?
prismo
7/17/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
It’s just…weak. Ew. Yucky. Gross.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
I don’t like it either and you’re living in fantasy land if you think the Mets are paying for Halladay and one of Rios and Holliday (neither of whom are worth what they will cost) AND pay JJ Putz $9m and Nick Johnson $5m+.
I really want no part of Holliday anyway.
It doesn’t sound from anything that I’ve read that Thole is ready to play in the majors defensively.
And when was it reported that Beltran has a microfracture?
trs86
7/17/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Lets see my turn I guess.
Reyes
Castillo
Beltran
Blaylock
Wright
FA LF or trade
Frenchy
Molina
SR
Johan
Pelfrey
Maine
Ollie
Innings eater like Washburn, Millwood, Wolf
Bullpen
Krod
Parnell
Green
Feliciano
Stokes
Maybe Putz
LHRP
Bench
Cora, Santos, Pagan, Reed, Sheff.
Trade Murphy and Evans.
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Blalock and Frenchy would certainly be the anti-OBP gang.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
not to mention Molina.
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
Yikes! I hadn’t even noticed him. That lineup would make Earl Weaver proud, with all it’s waiting for 3-run homers.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
I disagree, with Wright, Reyes, Castillo, Beltran and lets say Abreu for LF that’s more than enough OBP.
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Well you hadn’t included Abreu above…
With him, the lineup would be much more tenable but would have to be carefully constructed so as not to bunch the .290 OBP guys together at the bottom.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
I am just using him as an example. And I don’t mind low OBP high power guys in 6-8 at all.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
But like I said yesterday, we may have to give up a little OBP to get some power. 30 HR between Molina and Blaylock right now.
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know enough about Molina and Blalock so I ask: are they wall scraper homers or Adam Dunn homers? I think the answer matters a lot.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Well SF is no homer dome.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Interesting that in roughly the same number of home and away at bats this year that Blalock has 11 HR at home, 8 on the road but a higher sligging percentage on the road.
So perhaps leaving that pitcher’s park wouldn’t hurt him afterall.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
I just like him more than LaRoche that’s all. I don’t think he will cost that much either.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Blalock over Laroche is fair.
I don’t think there’s much of a difference in their production — Blalock with more power and Laroche better at reaching base/defense.
One thing Laroche has over him is health, though.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
True but don’t you think LaRoche will be more expensive as he is the only true 1B guy that does not have injury issues
?
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
He might be. But if Blalock finishes this season with 35 HRs, who knows?
trs86
7/17/2009-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
I still think the fact that he is not known as a great 1B and his injury history will keep the longterm deals away.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
At the same time, Blalock’s career splits are pretty stark in favor of home v. away and he’s an awful hitter v. lefthanded pitching for his career: .229 .281 .375.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
Wanny there is no perfect candidate for 1B. We will have to give and take.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
Rich Aurilia (38)
Russell Branyan (34)
Miguel Cairo (36)
Frank Catalanotto (36) – $5MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Tony Clark (38)
Carlos Delgado (38)
Nomar Garciaparra (36)
Ross Gload (34) – $2.6MM club option
Eric Hinske (32)
Nick Johnson (31)
Adam LaRoche (30)
Doug Mientkiewicz (36)
Kevin Millar (38)
Chad Tracy (30) – $7MM option with a $1MM buyout
Daryle Ward (35)
Dmitri Young (36)
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
That’s why I’ve been saying that Omar has to go the trade route.
There are guys who are blocked (i.e. Kyle Blanks, for example) or guys who may becoming expensive (Prince Fielder pipe dream, for example).
I don’t want to sign crap just because that’s what’s there. That’s how they get in trouble — see Perez, Ollie.
I’d rather improve areas that can be improved and live with what we have at 1B (maybe Murphy’s bat comes alive this month and reminds us what we like din the first place).
trs86
7/17/2009-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
Problem is that I think we need to save those prospects for a SP. Do you honestly think in a trade we can get really anyone better than Murphy?
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know. I don’t know who will be available.
Maybe Fielder becomes available? This guy Kyle Blanks has a ton of power. Maybe Billy Butler becomes available because Homser is on the way? Maybe Jorge Cantu becomes available (Logan Morrison and Gaby Sanchez)?
There are always young guys who are stuck behind veterans and veterans who are being pushed out by young guys.
I have no problem taking a chance ona guy like Chris Davis, Blanks or some other young guy with power to play 1B. Maybe not these specific guys but there are those types out there.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
Blanks as a 21 y.o in AA hit 325 .404 .514 last year and so far this season in AAA (he was called up to SD recently) was at 283 .393 .485.
He’s driven in 100 runs and hit 20 HRs in each of his two full minor league seasons (119 games and 132 games).
He’s 22 and his too mountainous (6’6″ 270 lbs) to play the OF.
He’s blocked by Adrian Gonzalez.
trs86
7/17/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
As would Molina.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Blalock would be somewhat intriguing as perhaps a move to the NL would benefit him. At the same time, however, he’d be leaving a pretty favorable hitter’s park for one quite the opposite.
Are we all over reacting to the lack of HRs? Should we be focusing instead on guys like Nick Johnson who would be better fits for the park as gap hitters?
trs86
7/17/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Not really. I think we have to have SOME power.
CaseStreet
7/17/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
I didn’t know who Blalock is so I googled Blalock. Try it!
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Do you get a Pearl Jam demo?
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
I apologize if this is old news, but Colin Cowherd just said what Toronto wants from the Angels for Roy Halladay. If this is true, I think we can all stop worrying about Halladay being traded to the Phillies, because unless Toronto lowers their demands Halladay won’t be traded at all:
Jered Weaver
Howie Kendrick
Brandon Wood
and #1 Angels pitching prospect
CaseStreet
7/17/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Yes, we’re gonna have to go right to ludicrous speed
jaded1983
7/17/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
hahahahahahah…..”whoa! its spaceball 1, they’ve gone…..plaid!”
trs86
7/17/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Kendrick and Wood are not top prizes anymore. But if you are the Jays, why not ask for the moon this season? They can get a decent package this offseason too.
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
They may not be top prizes anymore, but just think of the package in general. The Jays want an established ML starting pitcher, established ML starting 2nd baseman, a prospect who is losing favor but still young and has major league experience, and a # 1 pitching prospect.
When you rid yourself of an established SP and your starting 2B, plus, are you getting better?
Back to specifics, considering Weaver and Halladay’s career ERAs are pretty close (Weav 3.61, Doc 3.47), and Weaver has post season experience with decent success, Halladay has none, I don’t see the benefit for the Angels in that deal.
trs86
7/17/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
I agree I think that they will back down on Weaver but I could see it being for the Phillies
Happ, Drabeck and 2 top hitters.
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
My gut feeling, based on the number of teams that still feel like they are “in it” and the economy, and if this alleged Toronto demand is representative of general demands around the league, I think this trade deadline may set a record for “most boring ever.”
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
From what I’ve read from Keith law and some others, scouts don’t love Drabek as much as fans seem to.
He apparently has a very poor delivery (has already had arm injuries) and his hard fastball is straight as an arrow.
gategem
7/17/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
lol The Mets used to have a pitcher named Jay Hook and Ralph Kiner used to talk about him. He would mention that Hook had a degree in Mechanical Engineering and could explain the physics behind a curve ball but couldn’t throw one. He also mentioned if you attach a string to Hoo’ks hand at his release point and stretch it to the catchers glove Hook’s fastball would follow that path.
gategem
7/17/2009-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Hoo’ks should be Hook’s.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
Kendrick and Wood may not be top prizes anymore but their still pretty good prizes. And the Mets sure don’t have any major league ready young players who have either regularly hit 30 HRs in AAA or have been competent hitters in the majors like Kendrick has until this year (and watch, he’ll wind up hitting .280 this year at least).
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
You have sussed out one of the subtexts of my comment, which was “no way the Mets possibly get Halladay, so let’s move on from that.”
I don’t want to spend the next 2 weeks doing the “Manny dance.”
fongy2
7/17/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
The smartest thing the Jays
could do(as someone,can’t
remember who wrote over the weekend) IS
get the best 3or4 players/
prospects they
can.Regardless
of position.
AND while I
know it should be commonsense,
they cannot trade Doc to
the yanks or sox!
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
The problem is, the Red Sox may (emphasis on “may”) have the best prospects to give.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
The best thing they can do is wait until the offseason unless a team offers the moon. There will be more teams interested this offseason.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
But they can get more from a team that will have him for two chances at a World Series than just one.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Maybe but that is really 2 teams right now where it may be 10-15 this offseason.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
2? 10 to 15?
At the very least we’ve seen rumors/reports that the Angels, Phils, Cards, Sox and Yanks could all be interested right now.
And there’s probably only a couple more that could even afford to pay his salary.
And I think those 5 teams would give more today than they would for only one year of him.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
But you know the Yankee’s and Red Sox are not really in it and neither are the Cardinals.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Why aren’t the Cardinals?
trs86
7/17/2009-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
Joe Strauss of The St. Louis Post-Dispatch says the Cardinals are now downplaying a potential Halladay trade, mentioning that they have too little pitching and won’t include centerfielder Colby Rasmus in a deal.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Doesn’t mean they’re out of it.
No one thought the Mets had enough for Johan either.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
Well hell, include the Mets in it too then.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Yes!!!
By the way, Brett Wallace, who is a nasty hitter, is a guy the Jays wanted to draft until the Cards did.
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
No doubt Heb! BUT
If you are gonna move him
to the
Sox or even the
yanks..
The Jays
must get
a Don
Corleone
offer.
None of this Ian
Kennedy&
a couple
“B”prospects!
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
AND from above, thanks BUT no thanks
with Molina(too old).PLUS,no way
Thole is the everyday Catcher next
season.Needs to learn to Catch before
that can happen.I know we’d all love
another Carter or Piazza BUT theres
not many good hittng Cs out there.
By far the most important thing a
Catcher has to do is “handle the staff” AND no its not a cliche!
Just ask any Dodger how much of
an impact Ausmus has has on their
staff and Martin.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
But there is not much out there at catcher. As long as Molina will sign a 1 year deal with an option that would allow Thole to develop.
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Alright a year BUT
NO MORE! No Slappy
type contracts for
a 36 y/o Catcher.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
Agreed.
stickguy
7/17/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
lost in the shuffle of last nights game is that dopey Jerry once again just had to overmanage in the 7th (with th BP this time), insisting on playing everyone as a L/R situational matchup.
Pedro F. has been one of the most reliable RPs this year, is fully rested, and it was a tie game. So of course after 2 batters, Jerry insists on pulling him, starting the carosel of RPs.
If he didn’t seemingly have managers ADD, the smart move was to just leave Pedro F in. Or going back a step, if he only was going to let hiim pitch to 2 guys, start the ining with Parnell.
Not saying for sure it lost the game, but IMO it went a long way to contributing to the 2 winning runs for the Braves.
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
They really are pushing my
boy Parnell! Should be further
back in the Pen. BUT LOOK,
Now 2 seasons in, it certainly
appears there are no greats
on our Coaching Staff.
stickguy
7/17/2009-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
should be an interesting off season if nothing else.
A positive? With Beltran likely missing he rest of the year, at least his knees get a chance to rest up and heal!
And if he ends up having microfracture surgery, just write him off. he wil lnever be an effective CF again for the mets.
For 1B, I wonder if they are starting to look at Davis as a legit guy for the future? So, if not Murphy, could be a ST plug at 1B. Or maybe a Laroche on a ST deal (2 years + option?)
The big LF will have to come from a trade. Just don’t ask who it will be!
I discussed with TRS last night some names though: Trade scraps for Rios and his salary (assuming he is relaly available for scraps), then in the off season make the big push for Prince Fielder.
Fill in catcher with parts.
rios, Beltran and Frenchy in the OF
DW, reyes, cstillo, Fielder + a C (otherwise to omany passed balls!) in the OF.
That is a respectable team on the field at least.
Add a SP, and set to go.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
I like the Rios idea, however I don’t think you are getting LaRoche on a short term deal. He is the only 1B candidate, he will get at least 3 years in my opinion. TOOOOO long for him.
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
Sounds expensive. If it stays under the luxury tax at least it’s possible. If it doesn’t, we need to replace some parts.
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
New moniker for this group:
“Slappy and the Stinkers”!
(Thank you to a bad Bronson Pinchot
movie of several years ago!)
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Break up “the core”!
trs86
7/17/2009-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Have you see what we did without the core this year?
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
It was a joke!
Trying to keep on
smiling as this is
one of the 3or4 worst
seasons to be a Met
fan in my lifetime!
stickguy
7/17/2009-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
You are as old as I am I think, right (go back to the early 70s?)
How can this be one of th eworst?
they were within 1 game of the palyoffs the last 2 years.
This year was a perfect strom of injuries taking them out of a golden chance.
They are quite likely going to be much better (assuming they can stay healthy) next year.
Even great teams occasinally have a clinker year in the middle of a good run.
If this is worse then the late 70s or early 90s, when you knew they were eliminated by Easter, your memory must be going!
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
I’ve had this conversation with Fongy before. If I understand correctly, it’s worse due to his own heightened sense of his own mortality. When you’re 20-something you think, “get ‘em next year.” 20 years later, that loses a bit of luster for some.
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Niese,Parnell,Murphy&Evans FOR
Halladay&Rios?
trs86
7/17/2009-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
Not enough. Holt/Mejia, Niese, Parnell, Thole would be what they ask for I guess.
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Done! BUT still don’t
think its enough!
AND no so sure Jays
interested in Thole
since they have better
Catching prospects already.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
I thought one of the desired Phillies guys was a catcher?
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Might be!
I’ll tell ya,
I think
he’ll end up a
Phil b/c
They are loaded w/MLB
close/ready prospects incl
Mike Taylor,
Lou Marden&
about 3
SPs.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
The Phils can definitely put together a solid package from among the guys you mentioned, as well as Dom Brown, Jason Donald, Carlos Carrasco, Drabek, Happ and Knapp (they shoul dhave to be traded in tandem).
The one thing is that unless the Jays can move Wells or Rios, they really have no room for outfielders at the major league level for quite some time (with Lind and Snider too).
fongy2
7/17/2009-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
True.Snider is gonna end up a DH though.BUT they’d LOVE to move Wells!whay a disaster that contract is for them.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
JP Arencibia is one of the Jays’ top prospects but is struggling so far at AAA. He might be another year away.
fongy2
7/17/2009-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
And hes
as cant
miss type prospect
as opposed
to Thole.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
Seems that way. First round pick. Experienced college catcher. Needs to hit a little better in the upper levels. Has lots of power.
fongy2
7/17/2009-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah,
Hes struggled at AAA BUT AAA can be misleading at times.I saw him just once last season
AND hes certainly an MLB Catcher soon.
Looks good behind the plate,strong arm and I believe drove in 100runs total last season.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
From your keyboard to God’s screen!!
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
The Jays would want probably counter suggest Pelfrey, Reyes, Niese and Murphy. Your move…
Joe R
7/17/2009-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
Thats even more insane. They will not recieve a package like that from any team and I dont even think Toronto would request such an absurd trade. Lets not forgot they are going to lose him and dont want to pay him, especially if Rios in the package, so Yes they are in the driver seat but they have to meet teams at least a 1/3 of the way.
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
Not sure on
Pelf since he’s
close to arbitration.
Next yr may be
making more than Hallady.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Halladay makes $15.75m next season.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
I would hope not, that would be a record jump.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
They’re not going to lose him for another year and a half. And there’s no guarantee they would lose him then either.
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
isn’t Pelf
arb eligible
after this season?
trs86
7/17/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Yes for the first time, he had a contract through 2009. But I could not imagine for a first year arb guy for him to make much.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
I believe he is. But you don’t think his performance will warrant a raise from $1.5m to $16m, do you?
trs86
7/17/2009-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Interesting thing with him is that he had a 4 year contract worth 6.6 million. Then he becomes arbitration elligible after only 2 years of MLB service.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not certain of this but he might be arb eligible because of his 40 man roster time, i.e. he had a MLB contract from the start?
trs86
7/17/2009-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, signed a 4 year deal with major league incentives.
fongy2
7/17/2009-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t know wanny.They might(and hopefully)will lock him up long term anyway.I don’t think they’d move anyhow.Which is good.Hopefully!
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
I welcome your attempt at the Mets-version package that is the rough equivalent of Jered Weaver, Howie Kendrick, Brandon Wood and the Angels #1 pitching prospect, since that is what Toronto asked for from the Angels JUST FOR HALLADAY!
You’ve seen my attempt.
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
OK BUT for Doc,Rios
AND Scutaro!
Joe R
7/17/2009-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Wow that’s alot. I cant imagine Toronto wanting or expecting much more than that!
trs86
7/17/2009-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Would you trade Pelfrey, Parnell and Murphy for him?
Joe R
7/17/2009-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
No I wouldnt at all. We need pitching and Pelfrey. The Mets may have delusional expectations for Pelf but they do see him as a number 2 type guy since he is our number 2 this year! Parnell I can deal with and Murphy I could be convinced.
trs86
7/17/2009-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Well you have to think that then you could bring in another pitcher and you get to keep your prospects
Say Johan, Halladay, Perez, Maine and Niese?
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
Don’t know how
delusional the
expectations are for a former 1st round pick who
EVERYONE believed would
be a #1or#2SP
before too long
in the Majors.
trs86
7/17/2009-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
I still think he will develop into a strong 2/3 Lowe type pitcher. But Halladay…
fongy2
7/17/2009-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed!
Good compairison.
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
And I’ll take it! I just wish we had two Derek Lowe type pitchers right now!
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
8-7, 4.40, I’m sure we can scrounge up a couple of those somewhere.
Just kidding, don’t hit me!
8)
wannybackstra
7/17/2009-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
I know you’re joking… but what’s really scary is that even with those numbers he’d still arguably be the Mets #2 right now…
Only one Mets starter has an ERA under 4.40 (I don’t count Nieve yet).
GravediggerHebner
7/17/2009-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
Wanny that’s sad but true, and just another in the growing list of reasons why I’m already in “wait ’til next year” mode.
Joe R
7/17/2009-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
I meant delusional after one good half of baseball making him our number 2 this year. But i agree with their long term plan with pelf thats why isaid i wouldnt include him in the package.
fongy2
7/17/2009-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
I would! Don’t think
THEY would though.
Joe R
7/17/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. Jerry falls in love with a guy and he is used like his favorite robot son. Murphy earlier in the year, Santos earlier in the year and now Parnell. Its as if it takes Jerry about a month later than everyone else to realize that these guys arent superstars or just arent ready yet!! Then when he does, he brings them into games or starts them in situations that arent condusive for success!!!