Jul 20
hat tip to Jaydh
Per a “Tweet”(i think) from Jon Heyman
#mets rejected request of package of f-mart, niese, parnell and ruben tejada for halladay. #jays
UPDATE
per NYP
“Jerry Manuel said before tonight’s game that he didn’t expect any outside help before the July 31 trade deadline, something that GM Omar Minaya confirmed in a later meeting with reporters.”
MLBTradeRumors
Link: If not Ike, who's on first? { At least Groundhog Day had... } – May 25, 1:01 PM
Link: If not Ike, who's on first? { What was the name of... } – May 25, 12:50 PMLink: The Second Half Push: Harvey, Montero,... { My Jewish Proverb was in... } – May 25, 12:43 PM
Link: Should It Be Called Moneyball Or... { The other point about Moneyball,... } – May 25, 11:42 AMLink: If not Ike, who's on first? { I feel like I post... } – May 25, 11:19 AM
108 comments
jaded1983
7/20/2009-7:53pm at 7:53 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, to be honest I’m glad Omar didnt make a knee jerk reaction and do this. Taking nothing away from Halladay, I’d rather keep the kids and plan for the future
metsfan4decades
7/20/2009-7:56pm at 7:56 pm (UTC -4)
Really? I’d do this trade.
jaded1983
7/20/2009-8:03pm at 8:03 pm (UTC -4)
Yep. I definitely agree a santana/halladay would be an amazing 1-2, but to be honest I’d rather the mets stay young. Because we would have to replace Halladay in a few short years and the production the above named prospects could have given us.
Any trade is risky and our prospects havent proved anything on the major league level, but im not sold.
jaded1983
7/20/2009-8:06pm at 8:06 pm (UTC -4)
but who knows. maybe our guys dont become anything and we would have won the WS with him next year. I would like to know more details though.
QnsNative718
7/20/2009-7:56pm at 7:56 pm (UTC -4)
We wouldve had Halladay through 2010. Santana & Halladay would be the greatest 1, 2 in the modern era of baseball.
metsgirl31
7/20/2009-7:58pm at 7:58 pm (UTC -4)
There has to be more to this story…at least I’m hoping there’s more to this story…
dentulous
7/20/2009-8:03pm at 8:03 pm (UTC -4)
thats it? Would have done that in a heartbeat. Now the Philths will prob land him. Least we keep Holt and Mejia and Thole and Flores etc.
jaded1983
7/20/2009-8:10pm at 8:10 pm (UTC -4)
Well…. it is a little vague, Omar might have rejected THIS trade, but that doesnt mean they arent negotiating for different prospects/players….
charlie_s
7/20/2009-8:11pm at 8:11 pm (UTC -4)
why not counter? love to know more details.
dentulous
7/20/2009-8:12pm at 8:12 pm (UTC -4)
Who knows, Heyman has been wrong before. A lot of teams can beat that if it is true
gipperpdx
7/20/2009-8:14pm at 8:14 pm (UTC -4)
Yikes, that seems like a slamdunk
fongy2
7/20/2009-8:38pm at 8:38 pm (UTC -4)
Snooze! Wake me when its over.
GravediggerHebner
7/20/2009-9:12pm at 9:12 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t have a firm response to this. I might’ve done it. None of the people they are (allegedly) asking for is helping the Mets right now. So this team, as sad as it is currently, doesn’t really lose anything except Parnell who has been really bad recently.
I was against a Halladay acquisition because I assumed the cost would include Pelfrey and I didn’t want to give a cheap starter up. But they didn’t want him apparently. Now I’m torn.
Kingman 26
7/20/2009-9:21pm at 9:21 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t see how we refuse this if it is true.
At first, before seeing these details, I also figured they must want Pelf or even Wright (or Reyes).
But to turn down this deal, with the 1-2 punch we would have for 2010, is kind of mystifying. But as someone else suggested, maybe they are in heavy negotiations, and maybe Halladay will fall to us as Johan did….maybe the Jays are really enamored with some of our prospects.
metsfan4decades
7/20/2009-9:31pm at 9:31 pm (UTC -4)
Well, if they are in heavy negotiations, they’d better hurry up. Not much time left.
The only way saying no to this deal makes sense is if Omar has something else going on that includes some of those guys.
fongy2
7/20/2009-9:38pm at 9:38 pm (UTC -4)
Like what?
Trading them
for Carlos
Silva?
Kingman 26
7/20/2009-9:41pm at 9:41 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe Victor Zambrano is ready for a comeback and Omar wants to keep the prospects so we can pry Victor away from whoever signs him??
fongy2
7/20/2009-9:44pm at 9:44 pm (UTC -4)
Not funny.
Kingman 26
7/20/2009-9:51pm at 9:51 pm (UTC -4)
Neither was the Carlos Silva thing.
fongy2
7/20/2009-9:52pm at 9:52 pm (UTC -4)
Wasn’t meant to be my friend.
Kingman 26
7/20/2009-9:57pm at 9:57 pm (UTC -4)
Alas, you are probably right….but I salivate at the thought of that 1-2 punch!!
metsfan4decades
7/20/2009-9:43pm at 9:43 pm (UTC -4)
No idea, fongy. Just trying to make sense of this.
fongy2
7/20/2009-9:46pm at 9:46 pm (UTC -4)
Just funin’!
I dont know either and not sure if I’m for or against it.Crazy!
wannybackstra
7/20/2009-9:37pm at 9:37 pm (UTC -4)
If this is true, and I doubt it is, then Omar is nuts unless he thinks he can Santana style weasel the deal down even more.
But if this was a take it or leave it offer we’d be nuts to leave it.
Neither Niese nor Parnell project to be top-shelf guys, FMart is injured all the time and Tejada is a ways away and unlikely to unseat Reyes.
If the Mets want to contend next season, a rotation starting with Santana and Halladay is a good place to start plus healthy returns from Reyes, Beltran and some creative work to obtain a 1B.
Kingman 26
7/20/2009-9:39pm at 9:39 pm (UTC -4)
I completely agree.
fongy2
7/20/2009-9:42pm at 9:42 pm (UTC -4)
Niese could be a pretty good
pitcher,Parnell i’ve liked
for 3 yrs now and I’m looking
foward to seeing Tejada in
2 weeks for 3 games.Sounds?
like he could be real good.
FMart?,well I’ve thought THIS
prospect is as much hype as
anything.Still,not sur though
that I’d make the deal.
wannybackstra
7/20/2009-9:45pm at 9:45 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t disagree with anything you say. But you have to trade a pretty good pitcher, a reliever, an overhyped prospect and a teenager for the best pitcher in the league, right?
This would put the Mets right back in the thick of things next season provided they are healthy and at least competent offensively.
fongy2
7/20/2009-9:51pm at 9:51 pm (UTC -4)
Well if he could do this
AND get Lugo
AND maybe one
more player…
who knows?
maybe we get back in this
thing.This guy
is top 3 in anyones book.
It would be very,very interesting
to have 2 of the top 3 or so
SPs in the game.Especially
today when goog Pitching
is so hard to come by.Nevermind,
GREAT Pitching.
wannybackstra
7/20/2009-9:54pm at 9:54 pm (UTC -4)
that’s an even better way of putting it. the opportunity to get a great pitcher is scarce. we can get relievers, outfielders and teenagers much easier.
fongy2
7/20/2009-9:59pm at 9:59 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly! Look I’d love to see us con’t to develop Tejada and the others BUT there IS a draft next yr and the yr after AND after that.So,Wright,Reyes,Beltran in their primes…Same w/Johan&KRod,Pelf coming into his prime ys.THAT is a quarter of the team right there.
Why not bring in Doc,get guys healthy and lets see what else is out there. OK Wanny! You talked me into it!
Kingman 26
7/20/2009-10:01pm at 10:01 pm (UTC -4)
A 1–2 like Johan and Halladay can win it all with what they would have around them here next year if everyone is healthy….and remember, we have a lot of dough to spend with Delgado/Wagner/probably JJ’s salaries going….
wannybackstra
7/20/2009-10:08pm at 10:08 pm (UTC -4)
fongy: it’s no fun to agree with you but when you’re right you’re right!
gipperpdx
7/20/2009-10:12pm at 10:12 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed!
fongy2
7/20/2009-10:12pm at 10:12 pm (UTC -4)
back at cha kid!
rustyjr
7/20/2009-9:54pm at 9:54 pm (UTC -4)
omar already said he doesnt see himself being involved in major trades – so i think they (front office) has picked up their marbles ad went home for teh season
wannybackstra
7/20/2009-9:56pm at 9:56 pm (UTC -4)
That could be true (and wouldn’t be unreasonable). At the same time, Omar doesn’t want to seem eager in public.
rustyjr
7/20/2009-10:02pm at 10:02 pm (UTC -4)
i understand – i agfree but deep down i dont think fred and jeff would want to shell out another big contract for a pitcher
Kingman 26
7/20/2009-9:54pm at 9:54 pm (UTC -4)
I have said it before and will again—-
1-2s like Johan/Halladay can win titles with less than Big Red Machines or 1927 Yankees behind them.
See Koufax and Drysdale’s 63 and 65 teams, see the 69 Mets, see the 2001 DBacks.
rustyjr
7/20/2009-9:55pm at 9:55 pm (UTC -4)
u dont think its too steep a price kong? plus fmart will be out until sept – u cant put a person on the dl in trades
Kingman 26
7/20/2009-9:59pm at 9:59 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I was wondering about trading a guy on the DL—maybe it could be done as some sort of player-to-be-named-later loophole thing?
And the price is steep, but I think you have to take the chance to have Johan and Halladay together, especially without trading an established major leaguer….
rustyjr
7/20/2009-10:03pm at 10:03 pm (UTC -4)
i see yer point
metsfan4decades
7/20/2009-11:15pm at 11:15 pm (UTC -4)
You can trade a player on the DL but you have to have a waiver from MLB to do it.
njstuckintx
7/20/2009-11:08pm at 11:08 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe, if the Mets get Halladay, they can drive him crazy too by only scoring 1 run everytime he pitches.
wannybackstra
7/20/2009-9:50pm at 9:50 pm (UTC -4)
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/mlb_trade_talk/posts/70781-jays-asking-price-for-halladay-too-steep-for-mets
Heyman’s story.
rustyjr
7/20/2009-9:53pm at 9:53 pm (UTC -4)
hey wanny u going to be at the july 22 game? im in 436 row 2 come and say hi
wannybackstra
7/20/2009-9:55pm at 9:55 pm (UTC -4)
nope. i think my next game is on the 31st — if they’ll still be playing by then!
rustyjr
7/20/2009-9:56pm at 9:56 pm (UTC -4)
lol
rustyjr
7/20/2009-9:51pm at 9:51 pm (UTC -4)
great game – now if we can sweep em we might be able to creep ahead in the standings – yeah i know im deluded
rustyjr
7/20/2009-9:52pm at 9:52 pm (UTC -4)
btw guys who’s onna be at the 68 mets reunion on aug 22? ill be there let me know id like to meet yas face to face
kong when are you coming down from hippieville?
Kingman 26
7/20/2009-9:56pm at 9:56 pm (UTC -4)
Hey Rusty—mentioned on an earlier thread–I might be there Aug 22nd, but I WILL be there at least one Sat in late Aug/Sept, and very possibly the first Sat in Oct—it might not be a meaningful game in October, but I might be there!
I will be there at least one Sat between Aug 22nd and the first Sat in October, and will find you….
rustyjr
7/20/2009-9:57pm at 9:57 pm (UTC -4)
let me know – either by thread or email me
Kingman 26
7/20/2009-9:59pm at 9:59 pm (UTC -4)
I most definitely will as soon as I know.
rustyjr
7/20/2009-10:04pm at 10:04 pm (UTC -4)
btw i was listening to some early anvil lol
oh and i saw the download special on vh1 classic – journey and faith no more strill kill !!!
fongy2
7/20/2009-10:14pm at 10:14 pm (UTC -4)
i think brock best compared it to
the ’01 D-Backs. Not a whole lot
there but Unit and Schill.
charlie_s
7/20/2009-10:14pm at 10:14 pm (UTC -4)
I think it’s time for the Wilpons to sell this team. They are running it into the ground. To not take this deal is insanity. Pure freaking insanity!
Wanny is 100% right. The only person worth talking about here is F-Mart and he’s constantly injured (um, a problem we have way too much of already). Tejada is like five years away from the bigs. Niese is a back of the end rotation guy and Parnell is average.
I’m about ready to lose all faith in this organization. What the hell is going on in the Flushing?
fongy2
7/20/2009-10:16pm at 10:16 pm (UTC -4)
Sign Kenny Powers!
charlie_s
7/20/2009-10:19pm at 10:19 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, I really think I’m about ready to start printing up the “Sell the Team” shirts…
fongy2
7/20/2009-10:22pm at 10:22 pm (UTC -4)
Not gonna happen.
See: CitiField.
charlie_s
7/20/2009-10:38pm at 10:38 pm (UTC -4)
Actually, Citi Field is a selling point.
charlie_s
7/20/2009-10:47pm at 10:47 pm (UTC -4)
Think about it the following way.
Scenario One: Shea Stadium still stands, there is no Citi and there are no plans for Citi. You perform a valuation on the organization.
Scenario Two: Citi Field is complete, Shea is gone. You perform a valuation on the organization.
Which do you think is worth more? The team that plays at Shea or Citi? Of course, it’s the team that plays at Citi.
The Wilpons (and prospective buyer) build into the purchase price the incremental value that building the stadium creates. So, the Wilpons get the present day of the future cash flows (ROI) of building the stadium.
fongy2
7/20/2009-10:56pm at 10:56 pm (UTC -4)
Thats not it!
Citifield is
HIS baby!
New Network!
MLB pie growing!
Jeffy being
groomed to
take over
completely!
No Chance,
he sells.
CaseStreet
7/20/2009-10:39pm at 10:39 pm (UTC -4)
per MLBTR,
“A friend of Halladay’s tells Jon Heyman of SI.com that Doc’s top priority is winning, but the righty would apparently prefer a quiet environment and a team that trains in Florida. Heyman’s source believes the Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals and Phillies are among the teams to which Halladay would approve a deal.”
okay, so Doc wants:
1. a winning team
2. a quiet environment
3. trains in FL
The only “quiet environment” team listed is the Cards. All train in Florida. So, why aren’t the Mets listed here? Must be the winning team requirement. Ouch!
Mr North Jersey
7/20/2009-10:44pm at 10:44 pm (UTC -4)
Does Halladay want any part of CBP?
CaseStreet
7/20/2009-10:46pm at 10:46 pm (UTC -4)
apparently his pitching style is conducive to CBP.
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/20/2009-10:46pm at 10:46 pm (UTC -4)
Omar needs to sell this team to Doc for next couple years. That’s his job. If he can’t sell it, he should quit.
Halladay in Citifield should have under 2 ERA every year compared to over 4 ERA in CBP.
stickguy
7/20/2009-10:58pm at 10:58 pm (UTC -4)
Citi is a pretty good pitchers park, but CBP has an undeservedly bad reputation, based on the numbers. A few more HRs maybe, but Hallady isn’t a big fly ball guy.
I could see maybe a small difference in ERA (.2? .3?) but certainly not 2 full points!
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/20/2009-11:08pm at 11:08 pm (UTC -4)
I was just trying to make a point. but Halladay does give up HRs doesn’t he? In Citi, he’ll give up less. In CBP he’ll give up a lot more HRs than the Citi. That’s for sure.
CaseStreet
7/20/2009-11:05pm at 11:05 pm (UTC -4)
this is what Jon Heyman tweeted earlier:
halladay preferences (according to pal): 1. win. 2. quiet. 3. spring in fla.; thinks he’d OK Phil, Stl, NY, Bos, etc
So, unless Queens has seceded from NY, then I’d say this list includes the Mets.
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/20/2009-10:44pm at 10:44 pm (UTC -4)
You have got to be kidding. What has Parnell, Tejada, Niese and FMart shown in the big leagues? What are the chances that ANY of these 4 will have impact that is anywhere close to what Halladay can give the Mets next year (and more with contract extension).
C’mon Omar. I know you want to save some youth, but YOU ALSO WANT TO WIN A WS!!
If Phillies get Halladay and Mets don’t, Mets are in some serious trouble next couple of years. With the lineup they have and Hamels and Halladay. Forget about it. Omar is an idiot if this is in fact true.
CaseStreet
7/20/2009-10:46pm at 10:46 pm (UTC -4)
BTW, just read about Felipe Lopez to the Brew Crew. Would’ve been nice to have Lopez at SS.
charlie_s
7/20/2009-10:48pm at 10:48 pm (UTC -4)
Omar stinks, he’s not the answer and as long as he remains GM, we’re all screwed.
fongy2
7/20/2009-10:52pm at 10:52 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah but we just got a former
Rookie-of-the Year!
Go Omar!
stickguy
7/20/2009-10:52pm at 10:52 pm (UTC -4)
he got traded for what are aparently some pretty strong prospects. Not sure what the met equiv. was, but something like Ike Davis + neise maybe?
CaseStreet
7/20/2009-10:56pm at 10:56 pm (UTC -4)
their #9 best and someone not in the top 10. Of course, don’t know how that compares to the Mets.
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/20/2009-10:51pm at 10:51 pm (UTC -4)
If the Phillies get Halladay, Omar needs to counter punch with a legit Ace. Otherwise, Phillies will be the dominant team for next 5 years.
stickguy
7/20/2009-10:56pm at 10:56 pm (UTC -4)
5 years? When Halladay is 38, and the rest of their core (if they can even afford to still have them) will be mid 30s+?
I still say the Phils are the perfect fit for him, but they are still better off not extending his contract.
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/20/2009-11:02pm at 11:02 pm (UTC -4)
5 years Halladay will be 37 and Hamels will be 31. Halladay will still be effective @ 37 as your #2 starter and Hamels will still be their ace.
Their core will be mis 30s but they’ll be just like the Yankees. They’ll continue to be the threat for every season.
Mets core will also get old as well.
stickguy
7/20/2009-11:14pm at 11:14 pm (UTC -4)
come on, you are at minimum being optomistic, if not really going overboard with your assumptions.
Pencilling in any pitcher to stay just as good from 33-37 is risky, and who knows what the heck Hamels will be by then. ANd same for hitters. Big diff between 30 and 35.
Besides, you also assume they all stay healthy. THat, and in 2 years when his contract is up, will they be able to afford (or want to) resign Howard?
It is just as likely that by 2011 Hamels is out after TJ, and Howard is hitting bombs for the red sox.
Oh, and DW and Reyes in 5 years will just be about as old as Howard and Utley are right now!
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/20/2009-11:22pm at 11:22 pm (UTC -4)
So if the Mets and Phillies have the same team as right now for the next 5 years, who do you think will win more divisions?
If Phillies get Halladay, they will be a legit threat to win WS this season and at least next 2 seasons.
stickguy
7/20/2009-11:27pm at 11:27 pm (UTC -4)
you know that neither club will have close to the same team, even if they had the exact same players! Which of course, we know won’t happen.
But yes, certainly Hallady makes them better, but honestly? Without him, they are a threat to win the WS for the next 2 years!
Who knows, BB karma is a fickle mistress. Say they trade Brown, Drabek, Donald + for Doc. Then Doc gets hurt. Oops. Or Rollins/an OF/another SP gets hurt. They end up looking like the MEts!
stickguy
7/20/2009-10:54pm at 10:54 pm (UTC -4)
No idea if it is valid, but this was psoted in the comments section of that fannation Heyman story:
“From keith Law: Mets-Jays trade report (Jays offered Doc for Martinez, Tejada, Niese, Parnell) is bogus. Shot down by multiple sources”
So, this might be nothing more than an internet bogus rumor, like that trade deal with the Red SOx a few weeks back (for Reyes?)
Mr North Jersey
7/20/2009-10:55pm at 10:55 pm (UTC -4)
I cannot wait to listen to WFAN talk radio 2nite. Sharpen your blades it is going to get GANGSTA 2nite.
How do you tell Toronto “Yes we do need a #2 pitcher. What’s that you say you will trade us your Halliday to us so we can have a #2? But what must we give you back? Fmart, Niese, Tejada, and Parnell you say? Uhmmm let me think… Fmart is oft injured, Niese who knows about him, Tejada who is dat, and Parnell. Sorry Halliday is not worth it.”
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA???
AMAZING
CaseStreet
7/20/2009-10:59pm at 10:59 pm (UTC -4)
Whatever happened to “The Mets don’t have enough prospects”?
fongy2
7/20/2009-11:07pm at 11:07 pm (UTC -4)
Thank You!
Best post of the night case.
CaseStreet
7/20/2009-11:21pm at 11:21 pm (UTC -4)
Well, thank you too kind sir!
steveo
7/20/2009-11:24pm at 11:24 pm (UTC -4)
The lack of prospects talk is b/s from other teams writers as many teams the mets have in the minors 7 at last count most are in the lower levels but to say we are thin is a joke .
CaseStreet
7/20/2009-11:03pm at 11:03 pm (UTC -4)
More from SI_JonHeyman: mets’ rejection of jays’ 4-prospect bid shows value of youth (and money). dont forget, mets got santana for much less!
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/20/2009-11:10pm at 11:10 pm (UTC -4)
F*** value of youth. Those youth will not come CLOSE to what Halladay can bring to this team.
stickguy
7/20/2009-11:08pm at 11:08 pm (UTC -4)
thinking about this deal (real or not), I would probably do it. It truly is putting a ton of eggs in the 2010 basket (making the team much more win now), but I think they can get away with it. Why?, well, let me tell you!
Parnell is replaceable (hell, Rustich could be next years Bobby P), Tejada still doesnt project to be an impact bat (rey rey anyone?) Neise I like, but not still looking like a top rotation guy. Holt by next year should be past him.
So, that leaves F Mart. If he turns into the next Ted Williams, oh well. C’est la guerre! If he turns into Ochoa, dodged a bullet.
But mostly, none of these guys is really expected or likely to help in 2010 (neise maybe, but as a 5th starter), or is easily replaceable (Parnell). And they all have other prospects to fill the gaps, a year or so behind.
Flores, Holt, Rustich, they replace Neise, Parnell, Tejada on the food chain.
F Mart? Someone coes along, or you just get a FA to plug the gap.
Or expand the deal, and get Rios too. Might even make the prospect load cheaper! Or get a low level guy back with him.
Rios then replaces F Mart, now and in 2010 (when F Mart will be in AAA). Might not have the same ceiling, but lots can change by 2012!
Rios, Francouer, Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Castillo, Cacher and 1B (say Santos/Thole and Laroche, if not Murphy). Heck, Get Molina and really go for it all!
Not a shaby team, if the rotation is Johan, Hallady, Pelf/maine/olllie/some spare guys for #5 back up duty.
It makes sense to get 1-2 year guys when you best prospects are floating around high A to AA, so probably need 2 years at least.
CaseStreet
7/20/2009-11:19pm at 11:19 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with Flores, Holt and Rustich.
I still smart @ seeing Gomez play some amazing CF but then I remember we have Johan “I’m a Man” Santana!
So if F-Mart happens to turn out to be a great hitter, I think I’ll be okay with it when with Halladay we sweep in the Playoffs!
I only wonder if the Mets can afford Doc and/or money wise.
stickguy
7/20/2009-11:24pm at 11:24 pm (UTC -4)
I think your last line just might be the key.
Adds ~5mill this year, and 15 next year (well, 15 – the cost of the stiff he replaces, so say 13) to the payroll.
Quite likely the Wilpons nixed it for that reason along (or Omar had to, since it exceeded his allowance).
I can see it for this year, but if they wouldn’t even do it to have him in 2010, that does not bode well, since Wagner along coming off the books almost pays for him!
although unless you are the yankees, a $50mill rotation is a bit garish, to say the least.
asod75
7/20/2009-11:37pm at 11:37 pm (UTC -4)
If that’s the case, sell the team Wimpons. We hate you!
CaseStreet
7/20/2009-11:37pm at 11:37 pm (UTC -4)
oops, meant Doc w/wo Rios
njstuckintx
7/20/2009-11:20pm at 11:20 pm (UTC -4)
Sounds like a plan I could live with. And with all the rest of the money coming off the books, maybe Omar could be convinced to buy a bench?
And honestly, the more I watch Murph at 1st, while not swinging the power stick, his fielding is impressive. That should allow for better spending bench wise or if your proposed Rios in the Halladay mix isn’t there, throw some bling-age at an outfielder with Pop. Even a Pat the Bat type.
dentulous
7/20/2009-11:11pm at 11:11 pm (UTC -4)
It would have been a definite no brainer had we ben able to negotiate an extension. Thefact that we give up a lot for one year has me questioning it, but you gotta love the fact that no Holt/Mejia/FLores involved and no Pelf. This is a tough one
stickguy
7/20/2009-11:17pm at 11:17 pm (UTC -4)
forget the extension (and I thought Toronto stated no window? But I guess Halladay kind of controls that!)
Get him for 2010 (and the long shot of course for this year). Then, you offer him arbitration (while certainly feeling free to negotiate a longer term deal).
When the Yankees blow everyone away with a 7 year 200mill offer, you take the 2 draft picks and move on.
SO, you traded F Mart, Neise, Parnell and Tejada for 1.5 seasons of Hallady + 2 first round draft picks (and hopefully, at least 1 WS ring!)
dentulous
7/20/2009-11:20pm at 11:20 pm (UTC -4)
yeah i forgot about the draft picks. yeah, that makes it better! replenish what he cost us to begin with
metsfan4decades
7/20/2009-11:42pm at 11:42 pm (UTC -4)
Very good point concerning the draft picks.
steveo
7/20/2009-11:17pm at 11:17 pm (UTC -4)
Hey the funny thing is that I believe the jays can get more from any other serious team.Makes you wonder what the other teams are not willing to part with and in dealing with the mets the jays are asking for more bodies than maybe philly or st louie will give up.
stickguy
7/20/2009-11:20pm at 11:20 pm (UTC -4)
nature of the business these days. Youth is more improtant now, and teams need cheap contracts.
A 33 YO SP for 15mill+ is neither.
I don’t care how much people love him, and yes he is great, but there is a very real risk giving up a huge haul for Doc.
He is 32, and 33 to start next year, and was on the DL already this year (with a groin). Heck, he missed a big chunk of 2 season (’04 & ’05?) with injuries. So he is not some kind of lock for 240 innings for the next 5 years.
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/20/2009-11:24pm at 11:24 pm (UTC -4)
But he’ll give you better than what Pelf will ever give you if healthy
stickguy
7/20/2009-11:30pm at 11:30 pm (UTC -4)
maybe. Certainly right now, and next year if they both stay healthy. but the future is hard to predict.
They still need a healthy pelf though. You can’t really go with Johan and DOc, then 3 livans. ALthough I am sure Omar is perfectly willing to give it a shot!
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/20/2009-11:39pm at 11:39 pm (UTC -4)
I’m losing hope in Pelf these days. He doesn’t seem to have the make up for a legit ace.
I would try to trade him this off season to get a legit ace like Peavy.
asod75
7/20/2009-11:34pm at 11:34 pm (UTC -4)
Pardon me, i couldn’t weed through all the posts because I’m pretty ticked off.
Instead I’ll just post what I just did on my blog. I hate Omar if this is indeed true.
Earlier today, John Heyman tweeted (man that sounds completely pansyish) that the Mets rejected a trade offer for Blue Jays ace Roy Halladay. In said offer, the Mets would send outfielder Fernando Martinez, shortstop Ruben Tejada and pitchers Jon Niese and Bobby Parnell for Halladay.
WHAT? The Mets rejected that? I’m hoping this isn’t true, because this is a deal you have to make if you’re the Mets. The only guys I like on that list are Niese and Parnell, but I could part with both if it netted Halladay. The Mets wouldn’t have to give up pitchers Brad Holt and Jennry Mejia, who probably have higher ceilings than both Niese and Parnell anyway.
Halladay is a stud, and yes, he may not help this year but he’s signed through 2010. If you can’t re-sign him after that, you take the draft picks and hope that both Mejia and Holt are ready.
It’s so frustrating to be a Mets fan.
Mr North Jersey
7/20/2009-11:38pm at 11:38 pm (UTC -4)
All this Halliday talk about he is 32 he costs too much where have I have heard this b4?
I know it’s Manny talk all over again!
Great that is all we need again.
For one thing Keep in mind who we are talking about FMart, Parnell, Tejada, and Niese for a #1B (Santana being 1A) Pitcher.
People had a cow when Minaya signed Redding and Ollie. So how often do you get a chance to have possibly the best 1,2 Aces in MLB? Yet you get no we are giving up too much.
Too much what exactly? Too much Lastings Milledge? Too much Carlos Gomez? Too much Joe Smith? Too much Phil Humber? Too much Kevin Mulvey? Too much Deolis Guerra? Too much Brian Bannister? Too much Matt Lindstrom? Too much Heath Bell?
Come on are you serious?
Everyone knows we have 2 major holes no #2 starter and no slugger. We can plug one of those holes if the rumors are true.
I just am amazed how this fear of going for it all keeps creeping back in amongst not the Front Office but Fans of all people.
Ok I had to vent I am glad I got that off my chest.
CaseStreet
7/20/2009-11:45pm at 11:45 pm (UTC -4)
I wouldn’t trade for Doc because it’ll rip the team apart.
They’ll be fighting over who’s #1 and 1A.
Mr North Jersey
7/20/2009-11:56pm at 11:56 pm (UTC -4)
LoL Case, I am scanning some other blogs and i am reading things like,
What if we wind up trading away another Heath Bell or Jason Bay?
What if we get hurt next year?
What if this is overkill like when we traded for Frank Viola when we already had David Cone?
Given enough time you can come up for a reason for not doing anything.
AMAZING
gategem
7/21/2009-1:22am at 1:22 am (UTC -4)
From Keith Law’s Twitter Page:
“Mets-Jays trade report (Jays offered Doc for Martinez, Tejada, Niese, Parnell) is bogus. Shot down by multiple sources.â€