- Meet the New St. Louis Cardinal
per MLBTradeRumors.com, “Cards Close to Deal For Holliday”
Tim Kurjian of ESPN says the Cardinals would send Brett Wallace, 3BÂ (#40 on Baseball America and Cards #2 behind Colby Rasmus), Shane Peterson, 1BÂ and Clayton Mortensen, RHPÂ (Cards #6 best prospect) to the Athletics.
The Cards are going all in this year.
In the past month the Cardinals have also traded for Mark DeRosa on June 27 and Julio Lugo on July 22. For more on the trade, checkout mrose’s post at NLEastChatter.com
Must be nice to be relevant.
74 comments
mrose
7/24/2009-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
medical records being reviewed
mrose
7/24/2009-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
more details at NLEC… just updated
dirtysanchez
7/24/2009-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
Good job case buddy lol
Its a done deal
Pujols and Holliday…scary
fongy2
7/24/2009-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
Sounds like a team trying
to Win a Championship.
As opposed to a team whos
stated goal is to “Play Meaningful games in September”
BUT….Lets Go Mets!
fongy2
7/24/2009-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
Oh, And b/t/w, Are we still buyers???
dirtysanchez
7/24/2009-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
lol according to omar…dont know what we are buying tho
metsfan4decades
7/24/2009-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
Sadly, the only ‘Breaking News’ we ever get is with the Red Cross and latest injury update or upper management antics embarrassing the organization.
Sigh…
dirtysanchez
7/24/2009-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
lmao….sad but true.
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
The Cards were/are a good club with a few small holes to fill and they’ve done a fine job (on paper) of filling them.
The Mets were/are a good club with many gaping holes to fill and little realistic chance of filling enough of them to make a difference in ’09.
Good for the Cards. I think they still need a decent SP though. Not a Halladay, but someone decent, in case Carpenter succumbs to injury as he so often does.
fongy2
7/24/2009-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
Wait a second! How can we
have “many gaping holes?”
I thought 4 months ago
“This is our year”?
Sure!,we have had plenty of
injuries BUT won’t we get those guys back? AND if its
too late this season,wouldn’t
we be a “good club with a few
small holes to fill”??
I’m confused Heb!
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
Now you know what it’s like to read most of your comments!
Obviously you realize the many gaping holes are “40% of the roster on the disabled list” Fongy.
I don’t know who you are quoting when you make the “This is our year” comment, but it wasn’t me. I stand by my initial pre-massive injuries opinion which was the team was good enough to contend and if a couple things broke right they would be there. Clearly 9 guys on the DL including 3 stars changed that.
Anything more than that you must be thinking of someone else.
fongy2
7/24/2009-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
Gotcha!
Sorry! Thought
you were one of
the “This is our yrs!”Guys.
I figured that
(yes)given the
WBC,we’d have a
bump or two injury wise.
Maybe Beltron
misses 15/20
gms somewhere
along AND maybe
Delgado misses
a month but ends up with’07
type numbers.
Maine maybe has
a few bumps and
Ollie doesn’t get any better being alot richer.Maybe 20
Wins b/t the 2.
I did think Wright and Reyes would completey breakout and
be two of the
top 5 MVP candidates.
Johan would be
every bit as
good,Pelf better than last yr and our
BullPen Not just good but
maybe great.
I didn’t trust our corner Ofers or for the most part
our bench.Didn’t
think Jerry was
any better then
average but good enough to
be an 85to87win
team,compete for the Wildcard BUT
unless Omar brought in a
real solid corner OF bat
we’d fall short
of the playoffs
for the 3rd straight season
which would make for an interesting ’09/’10 off-season.
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
I pretty much agree completely, with subtle differences.
I don’t really think about injuries at all before a season, in any context. So I didn’t come into the year thinking “so and so might go on the 15 day DL once” let alone “so and so is going to miss 100 games,” I just don’t think about those things much.
But as far as the product on the field, I agree completely that a legit corner OF was needed. I had high hopes for Murphy but felt there was no need to anoint him the starting LF so early. Allow the spring to unfold.
I hoped they would be healthy and perform well enough that either the corner OF or the as you stated shallow bench would be rectified mid-season. But that’s all water under the bridge now and it’s rushing toward a cracking dam.
I thought it realistic that one of the SP would regress, but not all of them. That’s been perhaps more disappointing than the injuries to me.
Ah well.
Now the Bernazard cherry on top of the shiz sundae…
fongy2
7/24/2009-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
Understood! I
don’t usually
factor injs in
either except
w/an obviously inj prone player
like a Ben Sheets
or dare I say Moses Alou.
I did think
Carlos D
could have trouble
b/c of age and
I’m always
cautious
of players,
especially Pitchers
returning from
surgeries like
Maine.
YOU know
man,after this many yrs
you can get a pretty good feel of
your team b/f the
season.Mine was Good Not Great!
Wish I’d have been wrong!
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
So does this make any Cardinal OF such as Ankiel or Ludwick available, or will they just continue to shuffle guys in and out of the lineup?
CaseStreet
7/24/2009-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
IMO, by trading Duncan, Ankiel becomes the 4th OFer
fongy2
7/24/2009-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe he can help out
in the BullPen?
CaseStreet
7/24/2009-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
So what’ll be the Cards lineup?
fongy2
7/24/2009-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
Better than ours!
CaseStreet
7/24/2009-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
My guess would be:
Schumaker 2B
Rasmus CF
Pujols 1B
Holliday LF
Ludwick RF
Molina C
DeRosa 3B
Ryan SS
fongy2
7/24/2009-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
Looks like a playoff
teams line up to me!
CaseStreet
7/24/2009-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
forgot about Khalil Greene SS, when he comes back, though Ryan ain’t too bad.
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
It will be interesting to see, and I guess it depends on who Holliday puts on the bench.
LaRussa goes mostly with Schumaker, Rasmus, Pujols, Ludwick, 5th has been constant turnover mostly of the LF, so maybe Holliday slots in there? Then Molina, then 14 different players have batted 7th and 15 have batted 8th, including many pitchers.
My best guess is
Schumaker
Rasmus
Pujols
Ludwick
Holliday
Molina
and the rest
which is awfully right handed, so perhaps Ankiel gets in there over Ludwick?
I’ll be checking the box scores that’s for sure.
mrose
7/24/2009-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
I just hope Holliday is on a train/plane to Philly right now!
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
This puts more pressure on the underperforming Cubs hitters to start hitting before it’s too late. Except for Derrek Lee they’ve been pretty underwhelming.
fongy2
7/24/2009-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
b/t/w Heb, Great post on how you
became a Met fan. Easy to tell why
I like ya. My story as we discussed
b/f is very similar.Growing up around
my Dad and his brothers,all serious
sports fans,professional horse players
and bookmakers,the 1st team I really
took notice of were the ’72 A’s.
I mean,my dad and uncles looked like
Rudi,Tenace,Bando&Catfish!
I really don’t remember much about
the ’73 Mets but do remember rooting
like crazy for them against those
A’s teams b/c they were a New York
team.Also In ’73 one of my Aunts started covering sporting events as
a photographer for the Bergen Record.
During the mid/late 70s I got to go to
alot of games at Shea Stadium.Both
Met and Yankee games as well as some
other events like Ali/Norton 3,I think
in ’76.Funny that I was hooked during
those yrs while surrounded by yankee
fans,family,neighbors,claassmates etc.
Maybe they contributed to it?
At the same time,thinking back upon it
maybe my cynical and pessimistic outlook of sports and especially my
Mets started then.I had a pretty good
idea by 8 or 9 years old that it was
much more than just fun and games.
covering
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
I think you just summed up, at least for me, why I feel a strong kinship with you even though sometimes we strongly disagree with each other about certain aspects of our favorite team, sometimes to the point where I become quite agitated.
But I am always able to step back, take a deep breath and seek to re-establish common ground with you because of the similar time and place in which our odd relationship with this team was established. So we’ve got that going for us.
fongy2
7/24/2009-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
Heb,pls for your own
health,never get to
agitated.Although strong in my opinions
I always try and remember,I could be wrong.Maybe slightly,
maybe completely.
I just provide my opinion as allowed.
Often,I’ll read the
threads but don’t post
b/c,either someone else
has already said what
I think or Idon’t feel
informed enough to
provide an opinion.
When I do though,I know
I generally have an
idea what I’m talking
about.Having said all
that though I do understand how you
feel about this b/c
I often feel that way
about Wanny.
fongy2
7/24/2009-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
That should have read “Too
agitated”not to
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
In fairness at least 50% of my agitation is when I am just having a bad day, or if I need something to eat. When I am well fed and having a good day I roll with the playfulness a lot better.
fongy2
7/24/2009-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
LoL funny!
I also have that affliction!
Atleast thats what 3 wives have said over the last 20yrs.
gategem
7/24/2009-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
lol Are you still legally married to all 3?
Have any drowned in a dry bathtub?
Are you working on number 4?
Do you have any money left after the support payments?
BTW you don’t have to marry the cow to get the milk?
gategem
7/24/2009-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
“50% of my agitation is …….. if I need something to eat”
My gf is that way and she claims all African-American females behave similarly.
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
I’m certainly not going to argue with her, especially if she hasn’t eaten recently!
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-1:38pm at 1:38 pm (UTC -4)
Sadly Mike F is making some good points. Essentially the lack of decisive action one way or the other on Bernazard illustrates the lack of a consistent vision at the top, and perhaps points to a power struggle which at least so far it seems Bernazard is winning over Omar.
The scary aspect of that for me is that so many have labelled Omar inept, incompetent, a guy who if he didn’t have lots of money to spend would have accomplished absolutely nothing, and have wanted him gone for a long time. They may be getting their wish. And he may be being replaced by Bernazard. Be careful what you wish for.
mrose
7/24/2009-1:40pm at 1:40 pm (UTC -4)
hey heb…you still livin in middletown?
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
Yup
mrose
7/24/2009-2:05pm at 2:05 pm (UTC -4)
check Pm’s on the forum
dirtysanchez
7/24/2009-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
Tony B was supposed to be a GM in training. I dont think omar will be shown the door but i also dont think tony b will get fired.
fongy2
7/24/2009-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed!…..Sadly.
fongy2
7/24/2009-1:47pm at 1:47 pm (UTC -4)
I’m no fan of Steve Phillips
but if his statements about
how the Wilpons run the front
office are true,it explains
alot!
b/t/w,heres hoping that if the ax falls,Wilpons go outside the org for help.
Thinking John Hart,Buck Showalter maybe.
dirtysanchez
7/24/2009-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
agreed fong. Im tired of the good ole boy network of ex-met players. Get real deal professionals to handle professional jobs. Get a real pitching coach, get a real hitting coach, get a NL style manager….get people who know how to do the job rather than a person who used to be connected to the mets.
CaseStreet
7/24/2009-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
No Bobby V?
fongy2
7/24/2009-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
I’d take
him in
a second!
THE BEST
“FIELD”
Mgr in
our history.
But very
doubtful
Wilpons
would go
back to him.
Another
former
“in house”
guy i
wouldn’t object
to is
Gerry Hunsicker.
dirtysanchez
7/24/2009-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
i didnt mind bobby v most of the time and he never played for the mets. I just want someone who is really baseball smart like a bobby cox or something…we have had crappy luck with managers for the last few years
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
Bobby V played for the Mets in ’78, but having played for the team doesn’t make me want a guy more or less as a manager.
dirtysanchez
7/24/2009-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
Oh yea your right….i agree but it just grinds my gears that a guy like hojo can hold down a job and the only thing that really got him the job was beign part of the 86 team. Hojo wasnt even all that as a hitter. Idk but i just want the best people available.
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
It always brings a smile to my face when you use the phrase “grinds my gears.”
fongy2
7/24/2009-2:11pm at 2:11 pm (UTC -4)
Crazy that I was sadder over the Kingman trade then the Seaver one on 6/15/77.
fongy2
7/24/2009-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
Todd Worrell would disagree!
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
I’ve seen you suggest this a couple times now and I am a huge supporter of the Showalter idea, as field manager more than GM.
But I commented yesterday (in fairness hours after the initial conversation) that Hart is under contract with the Rangers until 2013, and when it was extended 3 years to 2013 it was “in exchange for Hart refusing to accept other GM positions.”
So while yes contracts can be broken or bought out, technically Hart is unavailable.
What I added yesterday too is that I hope the Mets will look to a “hot, young” assistant GM from another organization, an organization that is currently doing well and clearly has a plan. Perhaps the Red Sox or Angels assistant as an example, and make them the new GM. And let that person hire the manager ultimately.
fongy2
7/24/2009-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks Heb!
I’ll shut up
about JohnHart then! I thought
that as an
“advisor”,He
could accept
a GMs job.
Wasn’t aware
of his contract
terms. I’m sure
Buck has a guy
who he has history with
who could be
sort of a “puppet” GM
while he has
ALOT of say.
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-2:09pm at 2:09 pm (UTC -4)
I’m trusting Wikipedia on this one. Here are the specifics:
Texas Rangers
At the beginning of the 2001 season, Hart announced that it would be his last season as general manager of the Indians. After the season, Hart stayed true to his word and Assistant GM Mark Shapiro took over as general manager on November 1. But rather than take another position with the club, or retire, John Hart instead took the general manager position that had opened up with the Texas Rangers after the departure of Doug Melvin.
On July 21, 2004 the Rangers announced a contract extension for Hart for a guaranteed two more years and an annual mutual option to extend the contract each year thereafter. In addition, the contract stipulated that once it was terminated by either side, it automatically converted to a five year agreement for Hart to serve as senior advisor to the owner.
Stepping down
Just over a year after agreeing to the extension, John Hart stepped down as general manager of the Texas Rangers on October 4, 2005 and was replaced by Jon Daniels. During his four years with the Rangers, the team compiled a record of 311–337, never advancing to the playoffs.
After Hart garnered interest for the general manager position on other teams in the 2005 off-season, the Rangers extended his senior advisor contract for three more years in exchange for Hart refusing to consider any other GM positions. Thus Hart remains with the Rangers today and is locked up through the year 2013.
CaseStreet
7/24/2009-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
The Cards must see the weak NL as a Golden Opportunity to go back to the WS. Otherwise, why would they trade their top prospect who plays 3B, a position they’ll need to replace? It’s not like they’re going to resign Holliday.
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
Good question. I have enough respect for their organization that I’m confident they checked their 3B options out and concluded they could go forward with this deal.
They can just plug in BJ Ryan until they figure something else out
fongy2
7/24/2009-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
They might! He is a midwestern guy
and who knows how bad the market
will be? Even w/Boras! Plus, on
the 3B prospect,I’ve read previously
that the guys an awful 3Bman who
could end up at 1B.
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
And a lot of players, not just Keith Hernandez, wax poetic about how much they love living and playing in St. Louis. It seems reasonable to me that, if Holliday and the Cards finish strong this year, he could fall in love with what is in terms of World Series victories the most successful franchise in the history of the National League and decide to stick around.
fongy2
7/24/2009-2:19pm at 2:19 pm (UTC -4)
Well hitting infront
of right behind Pujols
should prove what Holliday is. Is he a
280/20/80 guy or a
320/40/120 guy?
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
Good point. We shall see. In the spirit of compromise lets call him a
300/30/100 guy!
fongy2
7/24/2009-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
Important though
’cause even with Boras’
1000page
book on
“Why YOU
NEED THIS
Player”
I could
drive down both his
price and those interested.
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-2:19pm at 2:19 pm (UTC -4)
In 1993 I was on a long car trip from Boston to Houston with stops at various ML baseball parks along the way (I called it the “Turf Tour” because I visited Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Kansas City and Houston’s stadiums) and in St. Louis my experience was just like the city is portrayed. It was right around the time of massive flooding and parts of the city were under water, but everyone was so damn nice. I wore a Mets t-shirt to a Mets-Cards game at Busch and people struck up conversations with me and were wholly pleasant. One grandmotherly type even bought me a beer in the stands! As a New Yorker I found it all a bit eerie in a Stepford Wife sort of way.
fongy2
7/24/2009-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
Ha,ha.nice story.
Really the only place
i’ve found it unbearable as a Met fan
was Yankee stadium.
I’ll be to CBP 4x the
past 3 seasons and no
real trouble with their
fans.BUT Yankee fans…
THE WORST!
metsfan4decades
7/24/2009-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
In 1973 I attended a Met game when they were playing Houston at the old Astrodome. Was a young teenager at the time. Sitting out in the OF seats. Was rooting for the Mets and some guy behind me – a Houston fan and an adult, mind you, started cursing at me and telling me to shut up. At one point, he smacked me on the head while telling me to shut up. So my Dad went after him big time. The guy promptly left his seat, never to return.
Last year at Shea, I attended a Mets/Cardinals game in late July (the one B. Knight started and we eventually lost in extra innings on a Pujols HR off Heilman). There was a teenager about 14 rooting for the Cards. A handful of Met fans really got on this poor kid, who really was not doing anything other than cheering for them. It got so bad, he eventually moved seats to sit with a group of adult Cardinal fans – probably for protection!
It’s probably fair to say that all stadiums/fan bases are going to have their share of obnoxious fans in the stands. Especially when alcohol plays a part…
fongy2
7/24/2009-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
True Dat!
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed on the share of obnoxious fans, I used to be one myself. I guess I will always be a recovering obnoxious fan.
On that trip I never encountered any, most places people were neutral but also St. Louis was the only city in which the Mets were the opponent when I was their and the only place where I openly rooted for the opponent. I think I made friends with the St. Louis people when I started chanting “Firecracker, firecracker sis boom bah, Vince Coleman, Vince Coleman rah rah rah!” as I was in the LF stands and Vince as in LF for the Mets that night.
When at Shea I always tried to reserve my bad behavior for adults though. Picking on kids is just bad form. I’m glad to read that your dad came through for you in Houston.
When I was in Houston in ’93 their mascot “Orbit” was roaming the stands and at one point he sat down next to me and actually asked “can I have a swig of your beer?” I replied in the negative and tried not to converse with him because he and/or his costume smelled terribly. He soon left and moved to the next section where he bothered some attractive young women for a while.
steveo
7/24/2009-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
Chase field home of the dbacks and the only place where the let’s go mets chant can over ride the music thay they try to play over it.On an average met dback game its 70-30 mets fans.Same goes for giant cardnals games
metsfan4decades
7/24/2009-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
LOL on that Orbit mascot.
And yes, I can’t imagine getting nasty with some young fan. At one point at that game last July, one fellow Met fan was cursing at this kid, telling him to leave. Got ME so mad I turned around and said to that guy ‘What is WRONG with you?’.
Never been to St. Louis myself but I understand they LOVE their baseball and have one of the best fan bases around.
dirtysanchez
7/24/2009-3:02pm at 3:02 pm (UTC -4)
Wow 4d thats awful. I can understand the heckling but to put their hands on you is soemthing different altogether..i hope your dad kicked that guys a**. I went to a yankee game once and they heckled this kid with a boston hat to the point of tears. I dont understand it to be honest but at the same time, you should know wearing or rooting for the opposition will entitle you to some heckling
metsfan4decades
7/24/2009-3:18pm at 3:18 pm (UTC -4)
You know today that would have resulted in security being involved, that guy being kicked out, at the very least. Maybe even a lawsuit.
But you know, back in ’73, times were different.
My Dad and I still laugh about that game. I don’t remember him putting his hands on the guy but he climbed over the seat, got in his face and said something like if he wanted to have any teeth left to whistle through, he wanted to think about leaving. Which he did. HAHAHAHA.
darknova306
7/24/2009-3:52pm at 3:52 pm (UTC -4)
I was at the Brandon Knight game, too. I was in the upper deck to the right of home plate. There was a small group of Cards fans that were really getting heckled by some Mets fans. Really pissed me off. It was really bad.
metsfan4decades
7/24/2009-4:42pm at 4:42 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I was field level, only 10 rows back, just to the right of home plate (some really nice friend got tickets to someone’s box seat..).
The fans that day were no better there. And how dumb did we look since we lost that game? LOL.
mrose
7/24/2009-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
so if will Caroll mentions you on twitter, you gain followers.. QUICKLY!
lol wow
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2009-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
Sweet!
saltygary
7/24/2009-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
Sweet 2 weeks ago in one of my fantasy teams I traded Reyes for Holiday. Now that guy is going to see some nice pitches.