Grab a cup of coffee, kick your feet up, and get your morning dose of Mets in the Papers.
Jim Baumbach, “Pelfrey Has Taken Step Back In 2009 Season”
But the fact that he’s not Oliver Perez and he’s not John Maine does nothing but mask the real truth here: that the guy long billed as a pitching phenom has – go ahead and say it – regressed.
Peter Botte, “Jeff Francoeur Lifts Mets Lineup And Clubhouse Despite Loss”
“It definitely makes you feel comfortable to contribute, but we just want to win ballgames here,” Francoeur said after the Mets’ record slipped to 10-9 since he was obtained in the straight-up deal for Ryan Church last month. “It’s been nice. It’s been good to get out of Atlanta and get into a new place. But today was tough.”
Matt Gagne, “Mets Lineup Kept Off Balance By Jon Garland’s Sinker”
While insisting they didn’t take a step backward in Sunday’s 5-2 loss to the Diamondbacks at Citi Field, the Mets still walked away kicking dirt and shaking their heads at Jon Garland- yet another sinkerball pitcher the patchwork lineup couldn’t figure out.
Bart Hubbuch, “Garland Dominates After Delay”
And once again, the Mets made a struggling pitcher look like an All-Star. Right-handed sinkerballer Jon Garland needed just 106 pitches to throw the 10th complete game of his 10-year career. Garland was 1-8 since May 19, but Manuel’s punchless lineup barely made him break a sweat yesterday.
Bart Hubbuch, “End of DL Stint In Sight For Putz”
Putz has another bullpen session set for Wednesday, and the Mets hope to set a timetable for him after seeing how his elbow feels Friday. Putz is to throw, then rest, then throw again in the Wednesday session.
Brian Lewis, “Francoeur One of Only Bright Spots”
Francoeur not only stayed red-hot with a fifth-inning solo home run, but made great defensive plays in right field in the fifth and the ninth. But naturally, in keeping with the way this sorry season has gone for the Mets, it still wasn’t enough as they lost three of their last four games and two of the first three in the four-game series against the Diamondbacks.
Adam Rubin, “Gary Sheffield Returns From DL As A Pinch-Hitter For Mets”
Jerry Manuelopted not to start Sheffield Sunday because the manager liked how the Cory Sullivan-Angel Pagan-Jeff Francoeuralignment had performed during a five-game winning streak last week against righthanded starting pitchers. That streak is now over, after Diamondbacks righthander Jon Garland tossed a complete game in Arizona’s 5-2 victory. So Sheffield figures to get his first start tonight since being forced from a July 17 game in Atlanta with right hamstring discomfort.
Joel Sherman, “It Ain’t Over Till … Nah, It’s Over”
We could talk about the Mets and the wild card. We could also talk about the Tooth Fairy or Jose Reyes playing again this year. You know, things adults shouldn’t believe in.
Tim Smith, “Jerry Manuel Sticks With Same Lineup, But It’s A Recipe For Mets’ Disaster”
“Right now it’s a mystery to me,” Manuel said. “We always think that anybody we go out there (against), we have an opportunity to do well against. Our history, at least this season, is that those guys have given us tremendous fits. I don’t want to say it’s the personnel. But at some point we have to make some kind of adjustments against those kinds of pitchers.”
105 comments
trs86
8/3/2009-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
I have been having this debate about Pelfrey. I think the name is weighing on us. But there are more pitchers who have regressed their 2nd full year than have not. I know we think he has been around forever but this is only his 2nd full year. All I say is give him time. He seems to be figuring out his out pitch and once he combines the times to pitch to contact and the times to go for the K I think he will be fine. If by then end of next year he has not started to show progress then I would get worried.
Now as for him being the number 2 right now? That’s just a title, we don’t have a #2.
CaseStreet
8/3/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Similar Pitchers through 24
John Lackey (992)
Carl Pavano (989)
Jason Isringhausen (986)
A.J. Burnett (985)
Steve Trachsel (984)
Francisco Barrios (984)
Joe Johnson (983)
Edinson Volquez (982)
Alex Ferson (980)
Danny Haren (979)
trs86
8/3/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Well Danny Haren would be ok. LOL so would Lackey and Burnett. However, I can’t go by those list to much.
CaseStreet
8/3/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Lackey would be good for me.
dirtysanchez
8/3/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Well you might be right. Sherman believes the mets will trade for a #2 next year….wonder what it woudl take to get that done?
trs86
8/3/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
Well why not trade for Halladay? The price will be a little lower and the Phillies won’t be in it.
trs86
8/3/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
My thinking on this is that we know there are no game changing hitters or pitchers on the FA market and most likely no hitters besides maybe AGonz worth any top prospects. Why not go with the best player available and then back fill. Something like Halladay and then an just a solid LF and Catcher?
dirtysanchez
8/3/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
im assuming you mean use our prospects for halladay and get a LF and Catcher via FA?
trs86
8/3/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Yeah.
GravediggerHebner
8/3/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
The “back-fill” idea is great in principle but Omar has proven (to me) that he’s not very good at it. He’s great at getting stars, he’s poor at surrounding them, so I hope it’s someone else that’s going to be in charge if this is the plan.
trs86
8/3/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
I just don’t think it will be.
trs86
8/3/2009-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
I mean they had every reason to fire him and did not and said his job was safe. I don’t see them saying at the end of the year your players got injured and we did not make the playoffs so you are fired. If they were going to do it they should have done it when the media as in line for it.
GravediggerHebner
8/3/2009-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
Assuming you’re correct in that they won’t fire him, then I really don’t like the “back-fill” plan.
I believe they will fire him. I think the only reason they didn’t was they had just fired his underling. They likely had no one remotely in place to step in.
They can still fire him at the end of the season despite the injuries. They can simply say they had time to ponder the gaffe and the damage was irreparable. I don’t think the Rubin thing will go away. It will always be there to be used as a reason to can him.
I strongly believe he will be gone after 2009.
trs86
8/3/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
So you think they will eat all of that contract extension?
DNDJohan aka kistics
8/3/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
I like the idea. Mets desperately need a #2 pitcher. Whether it’d be Halladay or Zambrano or Kazmir, Omar needs to get someone to compete with Lee & Hamels combo.
Plus, Citifield will attract more pitchers to play here.
I think Omar also needs to get 2 of 3 positions (LF, 1B, and C) filled via FA. But I differ from TRS that we need someone to replace Delgado’s power numbers. Yes, Frenchy has been hitting for Power, but I still think we need more. Guys like Holliday or Bay would be great. Abreu or re-signing Delgado @ around $8 Mil would be good too.
GravediggerHebner
8/3/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
I can’t find a listing of Omar’s actual salary for that extension.
I know he’s making $800,000 annually now, so my rough guess is something between $1 mil and 1.5 mil annually in the extension.
That’s $4.5 mil over 3 years, that’s like the equivalent of what they’re paying the AZ DBacks to pitch Scott Schoe but for 3 years instead of 1.
It’s not like Omar is making Castillo money.
I think they can handle that, Madoff or no Madoff.
trs86
8/3/2009-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
I guess you are right, even though they may not have been able to afford Bobby Abreu. LOL
Anyway, I wonder if they can reassign him and save some money having him do another job? Maybe Director of IFA?
DNDJohan aka kistics
8/3/2009-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
I disagree Grave. I really think Mets are in deep financial trouble. Madoff was bad, but don’t forget that Wilpons are in the business of Real Estate.
- We’re going to try to patch up within the organization until the injured guys come back.
- We will not make any big moves via Trades and will Hold on to our prospects.
- Omar has signed 1 big FA since the Madoff. That is Ollie. (I think this was more of a PR move that they are not in financial trouble)
- Lack of Tickets sales this season.
I don’t see the Mets eating Omar’s contract or Jerry’s for that matter.
CaseStreet
8/3/2009-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
would you be happy w/ Halladay, Molina, F-Mart and Murphy?
Who’s out of the rotation?
trs86
8/3/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
No, I would not be. Add a solid LF to that mix and leave Fmart in AAA and I would be.
CaseStreet
8/3/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
hard man to plz. so, who’s the LFer? Abreu, Ankiel, Damon, Vlad, Holliday, Matsui, or Winn?
trs86
8/3/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Maybe Ankiel who after a bad season should not cost much.
DNDJohan aka kistics
8/3/2009-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
I like Abreu as well.
I would try to re-sign Delgado at around $8 Mil as well.
trs86
8/3/2009-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
PLEASE no Delgado.
DNDJohan aka kistics
8/3/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
Delgado can still give you better numbers than Murphy at 1B next season. They really need a power bat from 1B side.
trs86
8/3/2009-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Can he from the DL?
DNDJohan aka kistics
8/3/2009-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
We’ll see how healthy he will be when he comes back this season. But are you really comfortable with Murphy at 1B?
Other option we can go is to get Johnson or LaRoche type of players.
CaseStreet
8/3/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Daniel Cabrera?
gategem
8/3/2009-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
Here is a positive assessment of Pelfrey.
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/8/3/973485/mike-pelfrey-may-have-found-his
trs86
8/3/2009-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I saw that. I think that for a while he was not being himself and just pitching to contact. Now he is trying to K everyone. Get in the middle of that and you have a good pitcher.
There's Always '09
8/3/2009-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
I see a pitcher with all the talent in the world, but no out pitch. Matter of fact, most of the Mets that have come up through the system haven’t developed an “out” pitch. That’s an indictment of our minor league development. They should fire Tony B….oh wait.
trs86
8/3/2009-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
I think he has that out pitch now. Read the article.
There's Always '09
8/3/2009-4:12pm at 4:12 pm (UTC -4)
Read the article and it doesn’t seem like much of a put away pitch to me. Pelfrey, Kunz (small sample), Parnell, and just about any other guy you can name that the Mets have brought up can’t strike people out. It’s because when a batter has two strikes, they can’t make them miss.
trs86
8/3/2009-4:13pm at 4:13 pm (UTC -4)
Did Maddux, Glavine or even Garland last night have an out pitch?
dirtysanchez
8/3/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Jerry messed up by brining in shef that early in the game…he did not think it all the way through and that messed up the lineup. You take out angel pagan who has been hitting close to 300 for sullivan. Now i know it is sending the wrong messege when sullivan just gave you some rbi’s and you take him out for sheff. My thing is if that is a issue then why not burn tatis in the 5th to get the sac fly to tie the game. Worst case scenario is he pops up or k’s but you dont have to put tatis in the game. You save sheff for later on. I want to feel sorry for manuel but at times he shoots himself in the foot and is part of the problem…sort of like PH berroa the other day…
trs86
8/3/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Actually it was a RH pitcher right? Why not bring in Reed. But yeah if you are committed to Sheff coming in then it had to be for Sullivan.
dirtysanchez
8/3/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
or yea reed is fine..just someone to do one job and thats it.
GravediggerHebner
8/3/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
It had much more to do with what position in the lineup had made the last out than it did with who was in that position. That’s why Pagan came out, he’d made the last out the previous inning. That way you maximize the number of hitters who come up before the pitcher’s spot comes up again.
trs86
8/3/2009-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I understand that but you bring in Sheff with a RH when you know you will need him later?
dirtysanchez
8/3/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Still doesnt change my point that you needed someone to get a sac fly…not someone who you had to find a way to keep in the game because he didnt get the job done and is a power threat. What good is sheff going to do batting 9th?
trs86
8/3/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
I don’t have as much problem of him keeping Sheff in as I do that he used him to start with.
GravediggerHebner
8/3/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. Once they had used him, he was staying in no matter the place in the order in large part because he is the greatest power threat on the team.
dirtysanchez
8/3/2009-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
thats basically what im driving at. I disagree with the use of shef in that spot.
GravediggerHebner
8/3/2009-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
You are “settling” for the sac fly. Jerry was “shooting” for the home run.
You could’ve used Tatis, I have no argument against that. I’m just saying whoever pinch hit there was going to replace Pagan once Pagan made the last out.
dirtysanchez
8/3/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
I doubt it..lets say tatis or reed was used. Its no big deal because you have gary sheffield that can come in late in the game for sullivan if they got somethign going. He should have used tatis/reed to try and tie the game since im sure those odds are better than sheff hitting a hr off a sinker ball pitcher. You burn tatis/reed for the PH then sub a reliever like usual. Save sheff for later on. He handcuffed himself because if gary failed you HAD to keep him in the lineup as opposed to tatis/reed who if they would have failed could have just been replaced by a reliever and keep your leadoff man in tact who is coming off a GS the night before.
GravediggerHebner
8/3/2009-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
All fair points but IMO ultimately you are paying too much respect to an oft-injured 28 year old career back up OF who has never had more than 170 at bats and has never hit more than 5 home runs.
And yes Sheff didn’t hit a HR but he hit a SCREAMING liner that just happened to be right at the 1B, otherwise it would’ve been a base hit scoring the run and keeping the inning alive.
trs86
8/3/2009-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
Again, I just have most of the problem as to when they used Sheff.
GravediggerHebner
8/3/2009-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Understood.
My reply was intended for Dirty, who while he has stated that he primarily believes Sheff should’ve been saved for later keeps bringing up Pagan (“sending wrong message” “just hit a GS”), who IMO should not be so strongly considered as someone who can’t be removed.
dirtysanchez
8/3/2009-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Im going to assume that person you described is angel pagan. Angel is batting close to .300 and i would like to see him up there when the lineup is turned over than a PH who never sees any time. Imo you have more options with angel. I dont think it was the best spot to use sheff.
GravediggerHebner
8/3/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
I whole heartedly agree with the Sheff was used in the wrong spot aspect of your argument.
It’s the must have respect for Pagan aspect on which I disagree.
trs86
8/3/2009-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
If Mr. NJ is around, the talk of a MLB salary cap is on 1st and 10. I am telling you that if the Mets just said the hell with the luxury tax and went over 200 million too, baseball will be ruined by a salary cap.
CaseStreet
8/3/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
can’t see the players union letting that happen
trs86
8/3/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
If the owners ban together and the media runs with it they won’t have a choice. Look at NBA and NFL do you think they wanted it there?
CaseStreet
8/3/2009-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
true, but isn’t the players union by far the strongest of the three?
trs86
8/3/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Right now, but I am telling you when ESPN gets a hold of something they are a monster. They have spent the entire morning on it on First Take.
dirtysanchez
8/3/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
thats why i watch MLB Network…
trs86
8/3/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
I don’t have it.
But still..
GravediggerHebner
8/3/2009-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
You are missing out. It is so much better than ESPN.
ESPN had some American Idol contestant on Baseball Tonight last night. On MLB network they don’t waste time with that type of corporate cross promotion, they still have fun and they are way more interesting/informative IMO.
prismo
8/3/2009-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
The Mets going over 200 mil!? They’d have to add what like..60..70..80 million to their payroll in the offseason? I can’t see that happening in any shape or form.
trs86
8/3/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Had to be there Prismo.
prismo
8/3/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
Where?
trs86
8/3/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
In the dugout last night we were discussing should the Mets go all in like the Yankee’s and sign 4 top FA?
DNDJohan aka kistics
8/3/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
See above, but I think Mets are in deep financial trouble. I don’t see any major signings this offseason.
trs86
8/3/2009-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
If they are in that much trouble they will be sold. They will at least have the same payroll as what they did this year and they have a lot coming of.
JoeR
8/3/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
So are we ready to give up on this season?
From Mets Blog. We have to go like 40-18 to get to 90 wins and if the plan as often stated by management is to play .500 ball til we get our guys back then we have to go like 25-5 lol!!
Ugh why does anyone need to put it like that!! lol
trs86
8/3/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, we know it would take a miracle and so did Omar. Thus no moves.
dirtysanchez
8/3/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
lol…reality bites..
Omar i think realizes that our chances of winning this are as good as a team in football recovering an onside kick and scoring a touchdown to win a game with :03 left on the clock
trs86
8/3/2009-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
Hey I would put .15 seconds on the clock right now but every loss another second ticks off.
CaseStreet
8/3/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
I’m not giving up. You Gotta Believe!
Say it with me.
You Gotta Believe!
prismo
8/3/2009-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
You Gotta Bel – SQUIRREL!
jaded1983
8/3/2009-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll throw this out there to you guys as I’m curious to hear your opinions.
- Next year get Holliday for LF.
- Trade centered around FMart for starting pitcher.
- Murph at 1B (wont need huge power numbers from him with Holliday in LF, Beltran and Frenchy. plus he is cheap, wont cost any prospects, has good range, and can always be moved at the deadline)
- Get another effective LHRP to compliment Feliciano
- Tweak the bench. (I’d really like to see Cora back)
- The only thing I’m at a loss for is Catcher. Santos will be back next year, but is he able to hold down the starting job or should he be the backup for someone else?
IMO we have three big needs for next year that can be realisticaly (taking into account salary, prospects, madoff, etc) filled for next year in LF, #2SP, and C with LF and #2SP being the most important.
A healthy lineup that looks like this is pretty nice:
Reyes
Castillo
Beltran
Holliday
Wright
Frenchy
Murphy
Santos/someone?
P
dentulous
8/3/2009-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
Im with you on the LF and #2SP being most important. I doubt they will pay for both a #2 and a LF. That is what worries me. They get one and settle for something less in the other spot. Kind of like what Omar has been doing. Fix one problem and put a crappy stopgap for all the other problems.
jaded1983
8/3/2009-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
I hear that man, which is why I’m pulling for Murphy to stay at 1B. Since they wont need to expend money/talent to plug 1B maybe we can get lucky and the Mets will spring for #2 and a LF?
Hell, if we can get Holliday and a legit #2 (along with the bench and LHRP) we can live with Santos/Schnieder behind the dish.
trs86
8/3/2009-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
Schneider is a FA so hopefully there will be none of that.
GravediggerHebner
8/3/2009-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
I like it. I am wary of Holliday falling in love with St. Louis and taking a small discount to stay there in a lineup with Pujols.
Otherwise Holliday is raising his salary every day with his St. Louis performance and who knows if the Mets can produce the kind of money necessary to sign him, I don’t.
I do believe Murphy can be a serviceable starting 1B and I agree that power is mandatory in LF with Murph at 1B. I’m just not sure who it’s going to come from. Holliday would go a long way toward solving that problem if he were attainable, my gut feeling is that for multiple reasons noted above he is not.
I sure hope the team is not counting on Santos as a primary catcher for 2010 or beyond. I like the thought of having him in the mix, but with primary responsibilities going to someone else. Thole won’t be ready (and may never be defensively if I am to believe what I read).
If they were to get Holliday for LF I’d be more willing to settle for a stop gap at C to pair with Santos ala Bard, Redmond or (gasp!) Schneider.
trs86
8/3/2009-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
I really think the Cards keep Holliday. I think there is a better chance of Bay than Holliday and that is not much.
But over all I think that should be looked at as a plan to consider.
I am in the get Halladay by trade including Fmart and then get solid players for LF and Catcher.
prismo
8/3/2009-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
I agree. Get either Bay or Holliday for LF, if either is available, which may actually be a long-shot.
Trade for Halladay by giving up just about whatever is necessary..maybe in a trade and sign though? It would be rough to give up 3-4ish top prospects for 1 year of a pitcher, no matter how good he is.
And sign a catcher, not that there are too many good ones out there.
Could still be an average line-up though. If Murph hits under .280 with little power, and a catcher does the same, that’s a very weak bottom of the line-up.
dentulous
8/3/2009-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
thats why it wont happen. Lets be real, we only have 3-4 prospects of any value and Omar has shown his unwilingness to part with them for 1.5 yrs of Halladay. Why would he do it for 1 year? It is not happening. No way the Wilpons spend on Johan, Ollie and Halladay.
We will be lucky if they spend money on a quality #2 (also not costing any prospects), let alone Halladay.
trs86
8/3/2009-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think it matters what we want. It is already predetermined that Vlad and Molina will be in the lineup and a scrub will be added to the staff or nothing at all with Maine and Niese in the rotation.
DNDJohan aka kistics
8/3/2009-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
Can Vlad play defense? I thought he was predominately a DH now.
dentulous
8/3/2009-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
yeah, your probably right. Damn…Its just all too predictable. I hope they surprise us this offseason to make up for this cruddy season. Im keeping my expectations pretty low knowing Omars style and the Wilpons money situation.
GravediggerHebner
8/3/2009-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
Sadly, I can clearly see the moment in late December/early January when we refer back to this comment and say “you sure were right about that TRS!”
So who will this scrub SP be?
I’m going to put some early money down on CaseStreet’s pal Daniel Cabrera.
trs86
8/3/2009-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
I am going to say its someone better than that. AND Maine AND Livan will be back. Maine recovering from surgery of course. So at least we will have depth and 5 #5 starters.
whataputz
8/3/2009-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
As much as I like Maine when he’s healthy, I think it’s time for a huge make-over rotation edition. Keep Johan, dump rest. Pelfrey is too inconsistent, and just simply doesn’t have a strike out pitch. Any batter at any time could walk at will against Pelf. He’s young and cheap and could be dealt for some talent. Maine in my opinion is better than Pelfrey, but is too often injured. see if a team will take him and try to snipe a pitcher out of it. sign Lackey and another pitcher, so you have a rotation next season of Johan, Lackey, Pitcher acquired by trading pelf and whoever else necessary, Ollie (because he must be in the rotation), and one of our prized prospects at the 5 spot. Enough of these “could be” pitchers and just get some consistent guys. I wouldn’t even mind bringing Livan back for the 5 spot if we could get some good guys in here.
trs86
8/3/2009-1:38pm at 1:38 pm (UTC -4)
I disagree about Pelfrey, at worst he is a #4 and MUCH cheaper than any other #4. Perez will be here no matter what. No one will take Maine coming off injury and you still have Niese.
All I can see is the Mets should get a #2 and then bump everyone else down.
Johan, 2, Pelfrey, Perez, Maine/Niese/Livan.
I really can’t understand all the hate for Pelfrey. The guy has not even finished his second full season.
whataputz
8/3/2009-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
I just don’t think he’s good. He literally has 1 pitch. He cannot strike out batters, especially when it counts. If he can be traded for talent, its definitely worth it. not saying we are burdened with Pelf, just saying he is worth trading. BTW Ducherer would be a nice signing because he’s coming off an injury year and might be cheap.
trs86
8/3/2009-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
I disagree that he only has 1 pitch and no out pitch. 6 K’s in 5 innings last night shows he can K batters. I think he has just been messed with too much. Don’t throw hard, pitch to contact, don’t pitch to contact throw hard now…
trs86
8/3/2009-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
Also, take a look at last year and May of this year. Again, they just need to stop tinkering and let him pitch.
whataputz
8/3/2009-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
The mets have 2 guys that you can pencil in. johan and Ollie, a #1 and #5 starter. I think especially with Cliff Lee, we need another ace. We don’t need to get rid of Pelf, but i think I should be explored. He’s just not a confident pitcher. I believe he has a world of talent, but just doesn’t believe in himself, and that’s a huge problem. You can’t be a contact pitcher and afraid to go strikes.
trs86
8/3/2009-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
Check out Cole Hamels numbers.
dentulous
8/3/2009-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
not good? based on what. 1.5 years in the majors? He had a breakout year and is struggling to stay consistent this year. Yo u are acting like he is getting shelled every outing and just plain sucks.
He still has time to get it together this year and is pretty damn young to just give up on him.
trs86
8/3/2009-1:57pm at 1:57 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly, the rule is that most starters struggle their 2nd full year in the majors. Again, if we are having this discussion at the end of next year then I will agree.
whataputz
8/3/2009-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
I;m not giving up on him, I just wouldn;t mind trading him for a consistant product. Let some other team deal with his baggage. I just am sick of these pitchers that are so inconsistent. Just spend some goddamn money and get 1 or 2 proven guys like the Yankees did an stop pinning your hopes on an unknown commodity. Who the heck is john Maine? Why should I ever expect him to get it done? Why would I expect Pelfrey to turn this around. True its just 1.5 seasons, but digression is never good. /if he is anything other than a number 4 or 5 pitcher, he is not worth keeping, and right now he is our number 2.
trs86
8/3/2009-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
Digression has happen to MOST pitchers during their 2nd year. How are you missing that?
And not to mention what consistent product are you getting for the Pelfrey you are describing?
dirtysanchez
8/3/2009-1:47pm at 1:47 pm (UTC -4)
agreed..some people forget the guy is pretty young as well. A true #2 pitcher would vastly help this rotation. As you said just bump everyone down a spot and we are set for the most part. We wont haev the best rotation in the division but enough to compete regularly.
trs86
8/3/2009-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
Well, who will? Braves maybe with their youth? Maybe some of the other Marlins pitchers make strides?
Can’t say the Phillies until Hamels gets out of his slump. His numbers are the same as Pelfrey. Who knows if Blanton will be back and Moyer is uh… old.
If we had Johan, Halladay, Pelfrey, Perez, Maine/Niese/Livan we would be right there with any of them.
whataputz
8/3/2009-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
Yes but Halladay is a tall order. Hamels especially now as a #2 I am convinced will get back to form. Remember he is a Philly, he gets it done when he needs to. I will continue to think of Hamels as an ace, no mater what his stats are right now. The guy was money in the world series, and that allows people to have patience. Pelfrey has accomplished jack so there is no reason for me to ver expect him to change.
trs86
8/3/2009-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, that’s a joke Whata. When stats don’t prove it you just go back to the he gets it done. Well he has not gotten it done all year.
I am not comparing Pelfrey to Hamels except in the idea that young pitchers struggle all the time. Look at Halladay’s second full year. He had an ERA over 10.00. I wish they had traded him then.
whataputz
8/3/2009-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
TR, he was money in the world series a year ago! He has proven he can dominate in the highest pressure situation out there. Pelfrey has been in the league a good amount of time by now and should start living up to his #5 pick expectations. Hamels was the goddamn ace of the world series champions, he has earned a rough patch.
trs86
8/3/2009-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
I am again not comparing the two but if you would settle down and do ANY research you would find more pitchers who DID struggle in their 2nd full year than did not. If at the end of next year Pelfrey is no better then fine. But at this point that is just insane.
Mr North Jersey
8/3/2009-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
WOW!!!
So much debate over Pelfrey. TRS and whataPutz going back and forth good reading indeed.
I will only reconfirm what I told TRS yesterday in the dugout and that for me using the “he is young” tag to explain away some of Pelfrey’s mental lapses for lack of a better word is basically getting old.
I want it on the record that at no time I suggested getting rid of him, trading him away or that I gave up on him.
So it be written so it shall be. -LoL
trs86
8/3/2009-3:48pm at 3:48 pm (UTC -4)
Hey did you see my debate on the salary cap. I think ESPN was in the real dirty dugout last night.
Mr North Jersey
8/3/2009-3:49pm at 3:49 pm (UTC -4)
I missed espn but i did read your comment discussing it.
trs86
8/3/2009-3:51pm at 3:51 pm (UTC -4)
They would not shut up about it this morning. Skip said no but the others were all for it. Interesting but they interviewed Uggla and he did NOT want one as most players would not I am guessing.
Mr North Jersey
8/3/2009-4:02pm at 4:02 pm (UTC -4)
Definitely players want no part of a cap that is for sure.