“Without losers, where would the winners be?†Casey Stengel
Here’s what you missed on Thursday, August 6, 2009:
- This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty 8-6-09 by rustyjr
- Real Dirty Mets Morning Open Thread by CaseStreet
- The Missing Piece…A Catcher by dirtysanchez
- Draft & Follow 8-6-09 by GravediggerHebner
- Breaking News: Mets Re-acquire Anderson Hernandez by GravediggerHebner
- Meaningless September Baseball by ceetar
- Where Were You When: ‘86 WS Game 6 Contest by trs86
- 2009 Mets Motivational Model Puzzle Piece by dirtysanchez
- Desperate Times Call For…Parnell and Ahern by trs86
- Man Up Awards For Wednesday by dirtysanchez
- Congrats Big Poppa Pelf by dirtysanchez
- Game Thread: Mets (51-56) vs Padres (44-65) by dirtysanchez
- Post Game: Swinging Friars Tuck Mets In by GravediggerHebner
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64 comments
stickguy
8/7/2009-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
man, this team is really stinky now, isn’t it?
Too bad we dont have a functional FO that would have picked up some at least semi-viable ML players when the regulars went down. Or at least functional enough to have recognized reality and tired to offload some of the stiffs that won’t be back next year (once Plan A failed!)
just please, put Reyes and Beltran on an official rehab schedule to have them 100% ready for ST, 2010.
stickguy
8/7/2009-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
Oh, and how many guys short are they playing now? I have been out of the loop, but haven’t noticed any transactions. Sheff and Castillo still “day to day”?
metsfan4decades
8/7/2009-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
Yes.
Jerry said Sheff still has ‘soreness’ in his hamstring, wasn’t available for PH last night.
He also said they’re looking to get Castillo back in the lineup on Saturday.
But hey, no worries. We’ve got AHern back, right?
Sigh….
metsfan4decades
8/7/2009-9:06am at 9:06 am (UTC -4)
There isn’t much left to say. Greg Prince over on Faith and Fear in Flushing this morning sums it up much better than I could…..
dirtysanchez
8/7/2009-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
We got beat by the padres….
go 2010
prismo
8/7/2009-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know about 2010. My hopes are fading.
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-9:14am at 9:14 am (UTC -4)
I’m with you Prismo. I think it is time to start building this team for 2011.
dirtysanchez
8/7/2009-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Well i agree there is no way to fill all the holes with this squad in ONE offseason..especially as many as we are going to have going into 2010…thats where a good farm would come in but since we dont really have one of those…gotta make due with what we got. If we do a really good job in the offseason, i think we can come back with a WC team at best for 2010. Philly got this division locked up for a few years imo.
DNDJohan aka kistics
8/7/2009-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
Hey dirty, it seems like we’ll never see the full Megan Fox pic. Can you just show it to us?
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
The thing is, if we have the same medical staff and same physical training staff next year, these things will continue to be an issue.
prismo
8/7/2009-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
Not only that, but I think too much big money is tied up.
Santana – 21 mil
Beltran – 18.5 mil
Ollie – 12 mil
Krod – 11.5 mil
Just those four players will make more money next year than 5 MLB teams’ entire payrolls in 2009. Just Santana and Beltran will make more than the Marlins are shelling out this season! It’s not that I think all of these are bad deals (well, Ollie’s is), but if Wilpon is going to have a hard team payroll cap and the minor league system of the Mets is going to continue to be one of the worst in the majors..how can you justify spending so much money on so few players? It’s very difficult to fill the additional gaps in the team if there isn’t anyone to fill those gaps in the minors, and all the big money is already tied up for years to come.
dirtysanchez
8/7/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
well…you gotta look at the deals too though
We needed a closer and Krod is pretty damn good at it. 11.5 is a steal considering the season he came off of
Santana is one of the best pitchers in baseball…21 mil is fine by me to tie up on that kind of talent
Beltran is one of the best CF of all time-18.5 is kinda high but we really dont have much of a replacement for him and he is pretty much the only power we have next year.
Ollie is well….not worth 12 mil
We are a big market team so we have deeper pockets than the marlins and some other clubs. Problem with us and them is they have “talent” that they can call up to occupy various positions and we dont. That is the importance of a good farm system. You get good results at a very cheap price from good prospects. What they need to focus on is scouting and drafting.
jaded1983
8/7/2009-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
Lets look for some positives since we can all agree, and hopefully come to terms with the fact that this season is over.
1B – DMurph has been looking great there defensively, even Mex compliments his aggressiveness, and since he has been playing every day has been hitting the ball well. Raised his avg from .230 to .253. Its not a gawdy number, but .23 points is a good increase, especially considering his age, learning a new position at the ML level and not being in AAA for more than ONE game. Dmurph for 1B in 2010, save money, save prospects, let home talent grow. He wont crank ya 35 homers, but he has the potential for 15-20 and a .300 avg. Sounds like a perfect COMPLIMENTARY piece to me….Someone on Brooklyn Mets fan had this to say about him:
“The best Mets teams historically have not had a lot of power at 1B. Kranepool, Mex, Olerud, Zeile, none of those guys hit for a lot of power, but they hit .300, were solid RBI guys and played good-to-great defense. It is not unreasonable to expect that Murph will be able to fill that role.”
2B – Castillo has busted his butt and gotten back into game shape and has been killin it this season, hopefully that will continue next season.
I just threw out two there, what else can you guys think of?
metsfan4decades
8/7/2009-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
So far, Frenchy has been a pleasant surprise. If he has indeed returned to his hitting for average of his earlier career, we should have a RF for some years.
Watching last night, he definitely has a bullet for an arm. There was a couple of singles hit to him in RF last night where he fired that ball right into home plate with runners on. One where I believe the 3rd base coach held the runner on third just because of that reason.
dirtysanchez
8/7/2009-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
yep..allowed livan to get a pop up to end the inning. I have no problem with frenchy in RF. Murph has been great and you can add hernandez to that list of guys that didnt hit for much power. I think the bench needs a makeover and personell…there is something seriously wrong with this group of guys and idk what it is. There isnt an identity or something we are known for(other that the injured squad). We need guys that can sustain a rally and right now we dont have that. I hope omar or whoever teh gm is going into the offseason concentrates on this…step one…dont resign tatis.
jaded1983
8/7/2009-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Keith is in that list, he is “mex” : )
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
I really would like to see us gut the organization:
Omar
Jerry
Med staff
Training staff
Coaching staff
Let’s start anew. This team is done as presently constituted.
saltygary
8/7/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
The issue is you can’t release that many people and expect to gain the same number of employees that are equal or greater to the performance of their predecessors. Those are just too many heads. Plus they also have to fill the player development vp position.
But switching over to a new medical staff I’m sure can be done a lot more effectively. There are a so many talented Doctors in NY, this is a must. Omar has a lot of money coming to him and I doubt ownership wants to pay for 2 GMs. Same goes with Jerry, but they have been doing that for 5 years whats one more.
So for my opinion work on the medical and training staff, areas of player development and if they can get Bobby V then ax the gangster. If they can’t get a decent enough manager that can manage bullpens and not shuffle the lineup every day then keep Jerry. And sorry to all the Omar haters (which I believe is composed of 99% of the people that come to the site) but they might just have to keep him…
dirtysanchez
8/7/2009-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
I wonder if the doctors are the problem or the decision makers with that information are the problem. I mean what if the doctors are diagnosing everything correctly but the decision makers just opt for a cortizone shot? I am not knowledgeable with this process and just throwing that our there. I do agree that the way this is currently constructed…we dont stand much of a chance for more years. I want us to be taken seriously and for that we need serious people. Someone like jon hart at MLB network…he knows(or seems to know) what he is talkin about. Thats the kind of guy we shoudl look for. Now idk if bobby v will want to come back or not but manuel’s tenure i hope is up and we get a smarter NL baseball manager.
wannybackstra
8/7/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
I tend to think the doctors provide information that is then misused by the decision makers.
GravediggerHebner
8/7/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Based on newspaper articles that I’ve read on the topic, I agree with your assessment.
steveo
8/7/2009-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
Omar is done. The reason why Jeff wilpon went on this trip with the team is to make sure omar doesn’t do or say anything stupid he made this team a laughing stock and will pay the ultimate price for that in the end.I keep hearing that the team don’t want to pay for 2 gm’s that makes no sense at all considering that its only 3 million bucks comming from the managment payroll and can be paid over 3 years or in one lump sum.This omar is in way.more trouble than we know .
prismo
8/7/2009-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
Are you sure? I was hoping Jeff would fire Omar at 3am some night.
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
LOL, that would be classic. But I actually think Jeff has more class than that.
dirtysanchez
8/7/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
I wonder man..this adam thing really died down a bit. Do you really think he is still in trouble?
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
I think the Adam thing died down, but the feeling that the Mets are a third rate franchise hasn’t gone away.
Clippers
Lions
Pirates
Nats
Mets
It looks like it’s heading that way right now.
dirtysanchez
8/7/2009-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
oh i agree and the mets have not had the success of their counter parts but they have been a 3rd rate franchise for periods of time..90′s…i wonder if we are going to enter another one of those cycles…
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I hear ya Dirty. I kind of think we’re headed to one of those dark eras.
On a side note: I love when people say, “You can’t buy championships, look at the Yankees.” Well the Yankees have 26 championships and just missed the playoffs last year for the first time in 15 years. I don’t propose that we “buy” a championship, but I would like to see ownership commit to making this a first rate franchise, and if that means cutting ties with Omar, Jerry, et al at an expense, so be it.
wannybackstra
8/7/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
The Yankees are also not shy about buying its farm system, the Mets’ biggest fault if you ask me.
The Yankees are not interested in the slotting system if it means not getting the player they want and they sure won’t cheap out in the international signings either (in which the Mets used to be big players).
dirtysanchez
8/7/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Well it depends. That has been the yankees staple for many years. To me you need the right combo of FA help and home grown talent. When the yankees did what they did in the late 90′s they had a few homegrown talents taht were accented by good FA signings. Its all about bringing in the right people. The phillies remind me of the old yankees to be honest. They have home grown talent that is accented by FA or outside talent. Thats what the mets need. They dont have the right “outside” talent to accent the homegrown players. Until we find the right mix, we will lack an identity imo.
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Absolutely agree that you should have a prospect/trade/FA combo, but you have to spend in all those cases. (See Wanny’s post).
metsfan4decades
8/7/2009-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
I do. At one point I believed Omar and Jerry would get a pass b/c of all the injuries. I no longer believe that.
Omar has too many points racked up against him now.
- Tony B. thing.
- Adam Rubin thing.
- Not making enough moves to compensate for all the injuries. Not moving fast enough to field at least a competent team for the rest of the season. Not necessarily trying to fill shoes here but there were some pickups that could have been made to avoid having the likes of Borroa playing SS.
- Probably the least of it, but his poor communication skills when addressing the media has now been the butt of too much scrutiny and way too many jokes.
I believe he’ll be gone come 1 Oct. And if he goes, so does Jerry.
dirtysanchez
8/7/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
well..to be fair..no gm could have enough depth to deal with losing as many people as we have…nobody.
metsfan4decades
8/7/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Oh, I agree. Not faulting him for that.
But a couple of weeks ago, it was pretty obvious we weren’t going anywhere, the team we were fielding was mostly horrible and the guys on the DL weren’t coming back anytime soon. I still say he could have picked up at least a piece or two of a competent ML player so we look somewhat professional out there. Wasn’t trying to say we should have given up prospect to fill holes. I wouldn’t want him doing that either.
dirtysanchez
8/7/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
agreed. I dont(and im sure nobody really does) knwo what offers omar had on the table and passed up. I guess he didnt want to trade for a rental player but is focusing for 2010. I think its accepted we are not going anywhere and are just playing to finsih out the season.
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
I hope you’re right. I would actually start to have faith in this organization again if that happened.
There's Always '10
8/7/2009-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know what his communication ability with the media has to do with his ability to do his job. I agree that he doesn’t seem to have great confidence when addressing the media.
I think he did the prudent thing at this deadline. This team was going nowhere, and to give up prospects for a rental would be eerily reminiscent of Duquette’s follies in 2003. That being said, if Omar is the GM this winter, I’d like to see the following done:
1) Bring Jerry back too. If we’re not blaming Omar, we can’t blame Jerry. This team has had devastating injury after devastating injury. No team with a payroll south of $300MM could have withstanded what this team did. These weren’t two week injuries either. They were 2-3 month injuries that overlapped. Backups to backups got hurt.
2) Let Maine walk. Is this guy really that good? We already have a plethora of #4 pitchers on this team.
3) If we’re not acquiring a Halladay or Lackey, go with a rotation of Santana, Pelfrey (miscast as a #2), Ollie, Niese, Parnell or Holt.
4) Outfield of Beltran, Frenchy, FMart, Pagan
5) Infield of Wright, Reyes, Castillo, and try to deal for someone like Prince Fielder (unhappy with contract status). If you can’t get Fielder, maybe sign Nick Johnson.
6) Bring back Schneider on the cheap. His defense has been much better this year. If he can stay healthy, I can live with his bat.
7) Fill the bullpen with young arms like most teams. Maybe a bullpen of K-Rod, Putz, Feliciano, Kunz, Stokes, young guy live arm, young guy live arm.
While I don’t think this is a championship caliber team until they get a #2 or a #1a starter. Halladay and Lackey fit that description. This is the offseason to go out and get free agents, as we’re not going to be in a position to lose compensatory draft picks.
We are going to suck for a few years.
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
I hope you’re right. I used to love Omar, but he’s got to go now.
Jerry and staff need to go too.
Med Staff and Trainers…obviously.
wannybackstra
8/7/2009-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
I agree with you. But I would be really surprised if the Wilpons would eat Omar’s three year extension.
Jerry will get a pass for the injuries but it is clear to me that he is generally clueless. I don’t have any faith in Omar to hire another manager anyway.
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
I would take Bobby V in a heartbeat. I hope you’re wrong about Omar.
Jerry is bad, very bad.
wannybackstra
8/7/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
I’d take Bobby V in a heartbeat, as well.
How about Showalter for GM? He’s never had the job but he’s been the guy with the influence in those types of decisions.
dirtysanchez
8/7/2009-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
His name has been tossed around here for a while…i just want someone that knows what he is talking about and has a plan that is logical. I want soemone that KNOW how to be a hitting coach..i want somenoe that KNOWS how to be a pitching coach. I want the best man for the job…not a mets alumni you know.
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Oh if we got Showalter, I would be ecstatic. Do you think there’s a chance that the Wilpons would go get Showalter and Bobby V?
wannybackstra
8/7/2009-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
No. They’ll both be expensive and they’re already paying Omar. Plus, I think Manuel gets paid next year too.
wannybackstra
8/7/2009-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
Whomever the GM is will have to be creative. If I were that person I’d be looking into the availability of potentially blocked young players (i.e. Kyle Blanks) and others who might get pushed out by oncoming prospects or impending pay days (i.e. Billy Butler).
The free agent market is just not going to help this team this year, though I’d take shots at Jason Bay and John Lackey if no one else.
wannybackstra
8/7/2009-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
I was unimpressed with Yankee Stadium in my first visit. Felt like a shopping mall.
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Really? I’m going to go in October.
Best stadiums you’ve been to?
I say Citi and Camden. (Of course Wrigley and Fenway are great, but for a different reason).
JoeR
8/7/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Citi? Really? Besides the Pepsi sign i dont see anything aesthetically pleasing to the eye. In fact everything looks bunched together and it looks like pieces to a puzzle scattered all over the place. To me Citi is Ok. If they were able to possible remove all the sponsors around the scoreboard and maybe make it a little better it would be a step in the right direction imo
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, sponsor signs could move, but I love the bridge and the whole right field corner. I really think Citi is the second best stadium I’ve been to, right behind Camden.
wannybackstra
8/7/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
I haven’t gotten around to too many stadiums outside of NY. I’ve been to Oakland and to Citizens Bank, which I’m sad to say is a beautiful stadium. I will say Oakland was a great experience. On a business trip, cut out early and took the BART from SF. Walked up to the gate and bought a ticket 5 rows behind home plate for $20 (this was approximately 10 years ago). Got there early enough to have dinner in the bar restaurant in the outfield. And then while sitting in my seat an usher asked me to you use my cell phone!
Citi has grown on me. I was not a fan at first. Maybe I’m a traditionalist.
JoeR
8/7/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
So since you have been around where do you rank Citi taking your Mets bias out of it?
I have only been to Yankee and Citi. All I know is Im extremely disappointed with Citi to me nothing fits together right. When I see it on TV I never say wow what beautiful field like I do with SF,Philly, Pirates, etc
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
You honestly put Philly in there?
I’ve been, it’s not that great. Way behind Camden. Philly is quite a vanilla stadium actually, much like the National’s park.
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
Here’s how I rank the stadiums I’ve been to (pulling out Wrigley and Fenway, cause they’re different):
Camden
Citi
Philly
Nationals
Shea
RFK
wannybackstra
8/7/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Once in your seat at Yankee Stadium you feel as though you’re still in the old building, which is a good thing but also underscores the fact that there was no need for the change.
JoeR
8/7/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
And doesnt the fact the big TV is alone by itself with no billboards around it awesome? I mean imo a simple thing like that goes a long way.
wannybackstra
8/7/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
There are as many ads in Yankee Stadium as there are in Times Square.
steveo
8/7/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
I’ve been to new yankee and citi both nice. Citi is better, but out here in the west petco, chase and at&t are pretty hooked up as well. Of those newer stadiums though I got to give my nod to at&t even over citi
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
AT&T is SF? I can’t keep up with the name changes anymore.
steveo
8/7/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Yes home of the giants and home of the coldest f–n baseball weather in any month
JoeR
8/7/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
I guess im from the belief less is more. And the way everything is just layed out bothers me. I mean in right field you cant even see the bridge. The scoreboard in right is a decent size but all the real estate around it and ,its a ton, is all advertisements!
sabermetrician
8/7/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
Agreed that the advertisements are too much. But Citi is superior to a lot of parks in layout, etc.
steveo
8/7/2009-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
Now joe aren’t you being a little to critical here(laughing)as when I went to citi this year with a dback fan friend of mine from out west said to me. I stopped and thought for a second and saw where he was comming from citifield rocks compared to what we had it needs a little more memrobillia but it still rocks
JoeR
8/7/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
I hear ya. Its just Im a proud Mets fan and I want the best possible FIELD known to man. With a few changes, they can do it. Walls blue. I love the light structures but there are advertisements pretty much attached to them.
Also what happened to all the changes that were promised for the second half of season. New scoreboard in right, morre mets stuff, etc.
Im going to next weekend against Philly and it would be nice, since this season sucks, to see some new stuff around
wannybackstra
8/7/2009-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
I think this whole memorabilia thing is overblown.