At this point we have all unfortunately turned our hopeful eyes to next year. We have cursed Omar, the Wilpons and Jerry. We have traded for Pena and picked up Murton over and over again in our minds. We have rehearsed what we would say to Lackey and dreamed of production from LF and 1B. So today, I add one more that to me may trump them all. It appears, based on various reports, including ESPN, that Dave Duncan is unhappy in St. Louis and this may be his last year. Duncan is uncertain if he will return to St. Louis in 2010. According to the St. Louis Dispatch Duncan is unhappy with the Cardinals Minor League pitching philosophy. The one thing he is most upset with is that they fail to listen to his input and follow his plan. Adding to this is Duncan is upset with the St. Louis media which he feels forced the trade of his son to the Sox.
Lost in all of this are a few key words that makes him perfect for the Mets. HE HAS A PLAN AND A PITCHING PHILOSOPHY. Duncan over the course of the years has been regarded as a premier pitching coach and often in my eyes made chicken salad out of chicken uhm excrement.  With the Mets having an unhappy Santana and 4 question marks there may not be guy on the coaching staff as important as the pitching coach. Duncan would add credibility to the staff regardless of Jerry or no Jerry. Bring in Duncan and let him manage the decisions with the pitchers taking something away from Jerry that he is terrible at. Who knows what Duncan can do with the likes of Pelfrey, Perez, and the cast of #5′s?
49 comments
stickguy
8/31/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
This idea, I love. It is a step in the right direction.
I thought though he was joined at the hip with Larussa? And him I don’t expected to be appearing in NY.
Only problem is, you would figure there will be competition for Duncan if he goes FA. And what exactly will attract him to the Mets? Totally unstable yet meddling FO, and a lame duck manager that is also clueless?
Only 1 solution: offer him more money!
trs86
8/31/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
I see no reason for him not to come to NY. Money, Johan, Krod, and the abillity to go out and get who you want.
Besides we can always sign his son as he was released by the Sox last week.
njstuckintx
8/31/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Today’s secret phase of the day is “step in the right direction”.
njstuckintx
8/31/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
I actually like Warthon and him bring back the curve ball, something Peterson took away. That said, getting Duncan would be a dream. St. Louis seems to pull decent pitcher after decent pitcher from no where, so I’m all down for some Duncan magic.
My one fear is even if we did get Duncan, you need a better game manager than the Gangsta we have at the helm. If Duncan could make all the calls on when to pull someone out of a game or leave them in, cool. But we know that isn’t how it works.
Duncan would = step in the right direction!
udontmesswthejohan
8/31/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think that you would get many objections to this idea, but I don’t think, despite the reprted unhappiness in St. Louis, that he would be willing to leave the comfort of St. Louis or his partnership wil LaRussa without getting paid very nicely. Combine this with the recent reports that the Mets are looking to slash salary and I wouldn’t get my hopes up too high.
trs86
8/31/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
We have seen no real report linking the Mets to slashing salary. I will believe it when I see it.
In fact I think the Wilpons will at least have the same just to be able to say I told you so.
prismo
8/31/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Let me gaze into my crystal ball for next season…
1. The opening season payroll will be less than in 2009.
2. Fred will claim “It’s less now, but that’s only so we can make mid-season acquisitions.”
3. By mid-season, the Mets will be playing under .500 ball, and it will be clear that this isn’t nearly a postseason contender, even with one or two mid-season acquisitions.
4. Fans won’t ask for more money to be spent, but to trade away some average to plus players for prospects, actually lowering the 2009 payroll. Everyone will forget about Fred’s preseason payroll claim.
5. Fred will laugh maniacally in his office, because his plan has succeeded.
A lot of that is actually what’s happened *this* season, so it’s not far-fetched!
Kingman 26
8/31/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
TRS, I love the idea of Duncan, but trading Wagner and cutting the fall league team are clearly cost-cutting moves, and perhaps just the first we will see….
Someone will offer Duncan even more than Peterson and Mazzone have gotten, and alas, I really cannot see the Wilpons spending a mil a year on a pitching coach in the current situation.
But damn, I sure hope I am as wrong about this as I was about being in favor of re-signing Ollie!
trs86
8/31/2009-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
Kingman, check the updates. They did not cut the fall league they just moved it. As for Wagner, I don’t see that as cost cutting at all. They got prospects in return. Sure they saved 3M but I don’t think it was all about the 3M.
Kingman 26
8/31/2009-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
Oops….sorry man.
trs86
8/31/2009-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
No problem, just everyone jumping to conclusions in the media is getting to me.
Wilpon switches to Dial to Safeguard soap, must be because of money.
wannybackstra
8/31/2009-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
Moving the Fall league team saves the team about $250k according to a report I’ve read. The Mets also make the plausible explanation that the move was made because there are no teams to play in Florida anymore.
I suppose the answer is probably a little bit of both.
wannybackstra
8/31/2009-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
You don’t see cost-cutting coming in to play at all in the Wagner trade?
I agree that Cartetr is a good pickup, but there;s no doubt shaving the $3m off the payroll was a major motivator.
If not, they might have offered to pay his contract in exchange for higher rated prospects, no?
trs86
8/31/2009-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
Would the Redsox have given a higher rated prospect for 3M? It’s not like they are broke. That higher rated prospect would have most likely been worth the 3M to them the same as it was to us.
trs86
8/31/2009-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
I look at it as: hey we get 2 prospects, one decent one, and saved 3M for a guy we are afraid to offer arbitration to and one we don’t want to deal with. Sure money has some role but to me not the oh god we are broke better trade Wagner.
Mr North Jersey
8/31/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
The Wagner was a no brainer move they was not bringing him back so they traded him for something they can use rather than offer arb and risk him accepting to then be back in 2010 and cause kaos with Krod IMO.
stickguy
8/31/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
they could have low balled him a bit in arb, so even if they got stuck, he would still be tradable.
I don’t think anyone though has an issue with trading, they just quibble about whether the return was worth doing it.
trs86
8/31/2009-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
How does that work? The arbitrator could have decided he was more worth his demands than what the Mets would give him. Say the Mets offered 4M and he wanted 10?
wannybackstra
8/31/2009-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
Arbitration contracts are not guaranteed. Even if Wagner obtained a favorable decision they could either walk away, attempt to trade him or cut him in Spring Training.
Regardless, I think Chris Carter is a fair return for a 40 year old relief pitcher coming off Tommy John surgery.
I don’t think, though, that Wagner would accept arbitration. I believe he wants to no part of setting up K-Rod and if he had to set up. he’d prefer to do it where there’s a less established closer.
trs86
8/31/2009-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
True so if he had gotten it and then we cut him we would have gotten NOTHING.
And I don’t THINK he would have accepted arbitration either. However, people in the media are already speculating that he may and then force a trade. What if the signing team knows they have to give up two picks and only offers him 1M? He has to think about that happening before he declines. So yes most of us THINK he would have but why sit here and worry about it when we can just get rid of it.
whataputz
8/31/2009-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
Especially since Carter is coming till next season, this trade was absolutely uselss. I’d rather go into next season with 2 picks rather than Carter. When do you expect him tog et some time? We have F0Mart the great, and our new RF’er Ike Davis to occupy the outfield for years and years to come .(
trs86
8/31/2009-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
ALL of us would rather have the 2 picks but there can’t be ANY of us that are certain that we would have gotten the 2 picks.
whataputz
8/31/2009-3:00pm at 3:00 pm (UTC -4)
Then I’d rather just have wagner than Carter honestly. A lefty reliever with his track record is more valuable than a career minor leaguer that we don’t really have a need for.
trs86
8/31/2009-3:03pm at 3:03 pm (UTC -4)
So you are going to keep a Wagner that cost 8-10M to setup and bitch and demand a trade?
whataputz
8/31/2009-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
Well no. I understand it;s just in your nature to be a d*ck to me, but obviously you’d offer him arb. The arb would obviosuly be lower than 8 millin. He then either rejects it, which it looks like he will, or accepts it and we get him for a much cheaper price. So we either get him for less, or he rejects and signs elsewhere and we get the picks. I’m pretty confident he’d sign with another team, and I’d be willing to take that risk over pinning any hope on carter.
trs86
8/31/2009-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
You obviously don’t understand arbitration. Maybe before you get so sure about things and insult decisions made you should understand the rules.
Let me try
This is how it goes step by step
1) Mets chose to decline Wagner’s 8M option and pay 1M
2) Wagner has until the deadline to either accept the plans of arbitration or decline it. NO money is mentioned yet.
3) IF Wagner declines and is signed by another team before the draft we get 2 picks. Their highest UNPROTECTED pick which could be anywhere in rounds 1-4 depending on the team and how many FA and a compensation pick.
4) IF Wagner accepts the two sides exchange salary figures. IF they can not come to an agreement before hand it does to arbitration through a mediator who will then decide which figure to award. Thus if the Mets low ball the mediator would be much more likely to side on Wagner’s case which would most likely be around 10M.
Hope that helps, now rant away.
whataputz
8/31/2009-3:18pm at 3:18 pm (UTC -4)
Why would they reward a guy 10 million in arbitration that missed half of ’08 and pretty much all of ’09?
stickguy
8/31/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
I actually think having a lower payroll can be a positive sign. If it means they stopped paying crap like Redding 2+ million, and a mediocre catcher 5 mill (etc.), then yes it is positive.
Also positive if it means more younger guys that aren’t being wildly overpaid for what they could do years ago (see, ALou and soon to be Vlad).
even with the raises, if they can find a bat to make less than Delgado, and a couple of set up guys to make less than wagner and putz, the team will be better and much cheaper.
Amazing to think the Mets spent 30million+ this year on Putz, Wagner and Delgado, and got effectively nothing for the money.
so yeah, they can lower payroll without it being a clamity. SPend smarter, not just more. ALthough of course, they can spend more and smarter if they wnat to!
wannybackstra
8/31/2009-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
If Duncan is upset that things are not done his way in St. Louis, he’d never be happy here where there are 10 chefs in every kitchen and no menus of any kind in any of them.
trs86
8/31/2009-2:50pm at 2:50 pm (UTC -4)
So maybe the Wilpons decide that they want a plan and a direction. He would be a great place to start.
whataputz
8/31/2009-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
Duncans going to leave a class organization for the next titanic, yeah that’s a good one.
trs86
8/31/2009-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
If he is not happy there and wants to leave, you don’t think giving him a ton of cash and lots of decision making can persuade him? And I highly doubt that we are the friggin Titanic. Man you guys after one damn bad season full of injuries we are the Titanic? Panic and get overdramatic much?
whataputz
8/31/2009-2:55pm at 2:55 pm (UTC -4)
Well you’re right it;s not like ’07 and ’08 were disasters. It’s not like the Mets had two of the biggest chokes in the history of the game followed by a year of staggering injuries and a complete circus. It’s not like that happened. Oh shi*, it did didn’t it?
trs86
8/31/2009-2:59pm at 2:59 pm (UTC -4)
Hmmm and what was St. Louis doing in 07 and 08?
You my friend are welcome to post here but I seriously am begining to take you as a joke. Go and count how many teams won more games in those 3 years. Yes we choked in 2007 and were not good enough in 2008. We are still not the Titanic and are for sure not the Pirates.
whataputz
8/31/2009-3:04pm at 3:04 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, because lets just completely overlook the fact that St.Louis won the ’06 WS and is on their way to making a nice run this year too. The Pirates aren’t the titanic because they are consistently bad, spend 12 cents a season, and have 6 fans. The Mets are a big market team with a huge following and constant media coverage going on 3 horrific seasons, and look like they’re heading for disaster.
trs86
8/31/2009-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
Only fans like you could live in a bubble and actually view the last 3 seasons as horrific. This year is horrific. The last 2 were unfortunate endings. 2007 was a choke but in 2008 we were never good enough to start with. Fact is, he is not staying in St. Louis and here is just as good as anywhere else. Most people don’t look at things with their head up their rear like you.
whataputz
8/31/2009-3:14pm at 3:14 pm (UTC -4)
Wow you really don’t think blowing a 7 gamelead with 17 to play is a horrible season? Not to mention this is coming off a year in which we were a game away from going to the world series. And then ’08 we also blew the division and wild card, and this was coming after the ’07 nightmare finish, I call that a disaster. You call it having my head up my butt, I call it high expectations. I’m sorry you’re okay with mediocrity. How many “We almost made the playoffs! Yipee!” banners do you see hanging at Citi field? And yes obviously you can’t always make the playoffs, but you’re not telling me after ’06 you expected 2 seasons of close but no cigar. That my friend is disappointment, and in my book disappointment can be filled under “Horrible season”
trs86
8/31/2009-3:18pm at 3:18 pm (UTC -4)
I did not say we were the best team and I did not say I did not want to win. I am just saying only someone like you could view those seasons and the Mets being the Titanic disasters. Most would not see it that way and especially nonMets fans would not see it that way. Did I expect to miss the playoffs for the 2 years after 06? Hell no. Do I think the team is a disaster and had horrible seasons, uhh Hell no.
We are not some freak show that nobody will come to. Fact is Krod and even Sheff when everyone would pay him the same still chose to come here. As long as we pay equal money players and coaches will come here.
whataputz
8/31/2009-3:20pm at 3:20 pm (UTC -4)
There was literally nowhere else for K-rod o go, unless you want to count Milwaukee. Obviously if you throw enough bones at a a guy they will come. But the Mets don’t seem to be in the bone throwing mode right now.
trs86
8/31/2009-3:23pm at 3:23 pm (UTC -4)
You guys always have an excuse, so now Krod came here because there was no where else to go? LOL. So the fact that other teams had offered him similar and even the media mentioned they were surprised he signed for so low and so fast it has to be because Krod did not want to come here?
And what about Sheff, you think he had no where to go? He cost the same no matter where he went.
whataputz
8/31/2009-5:25pm at 5:25 pm (UTC -4)
First off, the mets are in a totally different position this up coming off season than they were last offseason. Shef thought he was coming to a good team. Plus his uncle played for the Mets and advised him to come. I mean sure you can just say that’s an “excuse”, and I can just call it an explanation. But please tell me what team was signing K-Rod if he didn’t come? I don’t want to get into a whole stupid discussion bout k-rod, but really, who else was signing him since LA wanted no part of him? And when did I ever say those seasons where as you say I said “titanic disasters”? I said the Mets are turning into the titanic, which they are. Reyes..who knows if he will play. beltran..? People say he might need surgery. They have a pretty weak rotation. Murph might be our 1b! We have a limited payroll. Why would anything get better? Why wouldn’t you classify that as the team heading towards disaster?
trs86
8/31/2009-7:36pm at 7:36 pm (UTC -4)
Or you could look at it as Reyes has said he will be ready by ST, Beltran will be ready next week, their rotation will most likely have another member AND have healthy players, Murphy might NOT be our 1B and NO METS OFFICIAL HAS EVEN MENTIONED a limited payroll.
whataputz
8/31/2009-7:40pm at 7:40 pm (UTC -4)
Yes you can look at the positives, but after watching Mets baseball my entire life I have no reason to believe the positive will happen.
trs86
8/31/2009-7:43pm at 7:43 pm (UTC -4)
Then why be a Mets fan? If you are that miserable, how do you stand it?
whataputz
8/31/2009-7:47pm at 7:47 pm (UTC -4)
Because I like watching them play..and I grew up watching them play. My point is that they usually lose, so why would I expect otherwise? C’mon do you really believe everything good will happen? Did you really think we were going to beat Florida this year. C’mon that’s just the Mets. Lovable losers, but hopefully they can turn that around. Who are you to tell me who I have to root for?
whataputz
8/31/2009-7:48pm at 7:48 pm (UTC -4)
*last year.
trs86
8/31/2009-7:55pm at 7:55 pm (UTC -4)
You can’t read. I did not say you are not a Mets fan, I ask why are you a Mets fan?
And yes part of the Mets fans is to be the lovable loser but to go with that then you have to expect the best and get hit with the worst and get your heart broken. That is the Mets way. Otherwise you are a Cubs fan. And with that why not have hope? Why be miserable the entire year and the off-season when you can be miserable just in the last week of September?
metsfan4decades
8/31/2009-7:01pm at 7:01 pm (UTC -4)
Love the idea. Just hope he would know that coming to NY is not like working in St. Louis.
Heilman interview with Kevin B. over the weekend: he was saying how much different it is with the media in Chicago. Said he was interviewed before the season and not one media guy has come to talk with him until the Mets pulled into town over the weekend. Now THAT’s a culture change, for sure.
oleosmirf
9/1/2009-11:02pm at 11:02 pm (UTC -4)
the Mets dont believe in organizational depth or drafting for that matter…