As this season has progressed there seems to be more and more discussion on Jose Reyes. After 2 weak Septembers in a row for Jose many had drawn a line coming into this season. Some loyal Reyes supporters said that last September was lost by Wright’s inability to hit in the clutch or the bullpen’s suckitude. They over look the fact that in September of 2008 Reyes had the following line .243 BA, .314 OBP, .402 SLG and a .715 OPS. In September of 2007 it was even worse at .205, .279, .333, .612. Some even go as far to say those numbers show how important Reyes is because we he does not hit we don’t win. Then there are the ones that go after Reyes, saying he is immature. His emotion is distracting to his own team and infuriating to the other team. They point to the fact that he has not done well in September and say that he is a prime example of how the Mets choke starting with Reyes. That was all before this year. Now as the season closes and the Mets spiral into an oblivion, people are starting to talk again. We now remember that Jose Reyes is on the team, yet most of us have no idea why he is not currently ON the team. Even, according to multiple reports, his teammates are questioning his absence.Â
This week Matt Cerrone has posted a couple of highly controversial opinion pieces on Jose Reyes. I commend Matt for taking a side and voicing his opinion. We can all debate whether that opinion is correct. However, what we can no longer debate is if it is relevant. At this point with the team struggling and and unclear about their future can we depend on Reyes? In fact does this team already depend too much on Reyes? Will it continue to be Reyes and Wright’s team or has this season along with his September struggles placed a permanent divide between Reyes, his teammates and a significant group of fans?
Let TRDMB know your thoughts on Reyes. By the way, for those of you who love to jump on Wright whenever Reyes is criticized you will have your chance later in the week as he is up next!
Click here to take a poll on Reyes.
139 comments
prismo
9/2/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
I think Reyes will be fine; I’m not concerned about his future. I think with his being out so long, we’ve just forgotten how much fun he is to watch!
trs86
9/2/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
I hope you are right. I am very concerned. Reyes was not playing well when he went down to start with. Hopefully that was injury related too. My biggest question still remains his maturity and focus.
whataputz
9/2/2009-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Wasn’t his very last at bat an inch away from a game tying home run?
whataputz
9/2/2009-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
I will say this though, for some reason he was not trying to steal bases too much. I’d like to see him aiming for 80 sb’s. He’s got freak speed, and he really needs to run most of the time. I think it’s incredibly annoying to see Reyes single then he very next pitch a castillo bunt.
trs86
9/2/2009-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
Last time Reyes had that many steals he hit the Mendoza line in September and said he was tired. Which lead to less steals in 2008.
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Matt said he’s uncertain whether Reyes will be a stud or a dud next year. I’m not sure that qualifies as an opinion; it actually sounds like he doesn’t have one at all. (which is fine because no one should care what he thinks)
I’m also not sure why his absence of an opinion would be controversial to someone who actually did care.
By the way, Ike Davis returned to 1B the other night.
trs86
9/2/2009-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I saw that and that’s good for me.
Cerrone took a lot of heat for even critizing Reyes though. If you want to read the comment section of the previous day’s post. Take some Advil before you do. It’s a mess over there.
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
I tried to revisit the site a few days ago when I could not access this one. I registered with a new username and was still not permitted to post the most relevant and tame message (I think it was Josh Thole stats). Screw him and his blog.
I read his non-opinion and found it to be typical commercial Mattsblog trying to be critical but not wanting to piss anyone off in Metsville.
metsfan4decades
9/2/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
I too read that post yesterday – and the comments on it. Pure entertainment….
stickguy
9/2/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
I was out of town, and only skimmed the headlines this AM. Might have to go back and read the comments!
although in general, the quality of comments over there has been free falling again. He was better off when there were only a few people cleared to post!
metsfan4decades
9/2/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Bottom line is Reyes will be back next season – for better or worse. His trade value is way to low to try and move him over the winter seeing as he’s been M.I.A. for months now.
I’m not ready to give up on him. When healthy, he’s still an incredible talent.
stickguy
9/2/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
He will be here next year. And it will continue to be reyes and wright’s team until they get another player good enough to take it from them!
I have no idea what to expect from Reyes next year. I hope he gets fully recovered (even if it requires a procedure), and rehabs well and comes into camp feeling 100%, totally focused, and ready to have the “leap” year.
But, I would not be at all surprised if he comes in out of shape, 7unfocused, and immediately gets hurt again (probably from the 1st 2 points!). If so, look for another lost year.
I like Jose, but have never been as high on him as some other posters and fans. Can they win without him? Sure, if the other talent on the field is good enough.
That was pretty much the crux of the “trade reyes to the red sox” arguemnet a month or 2 back. If you can get a really good package that fills a couple of other gaping holes, yes you can trade reyes.
Or just wait until what, 2012, when he goes to the Yankees and finally puts up an MVP season.
JoeR
9/2/2009-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
Haha very true…I have been one of those guys very high on him. Im not ready to write him off and Im not disappointed in his career thus far but like I said next year will go a long way in seeing if this guy takes the next step many of us thought he was capable of taking…
JoeR
9/2/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
I enjoyed his article…he said he wouldnt be surprised if he is up for MVP or hits .250…I agree. I mean .250 maybe a bit exaggerated but the point is vaild. Next year will be a big year for him. He will be 27-28 I believe and the time is now to see if we have a great player or a decent all around player with great speed. If its the latter, he is a replaceable commodity and it would be upsetting because I am one who thought and expected reyes to mature into a great major leaguer. Time will tell…and i think that time is next year. Cant wait to see him back though, I totally forgot what he looks like in the leadoff spot! Amazing how Boone came back after open heart surgery in less than a year and Reyes….lol
udontmesswthejohan
9/2/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
Look, I’ve said it before, and I will say it again, this guy has been a victim of his own success. There is always talk of him taking it to the next level from his 2006 season, but to me, that is just poppy cock. How many levels can someone take it up. If he achieves that level of success again, then he is one of the top 10 all around players in baseball. What more do you want?
Now, the argument will be that he hasn’t achieved that success in a couple of years. Fine, but he is still one helluva player even if he doesn’t reach that rarified air. And as far as this year, the fact that he was hitting .250 doesn’t really amount to a hill of beans IMO as he still had plenty of time to get his season straightened out.
JoeR
9/2/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
Of course he had plenty of time to get it right and he was hitting .280…and part of taking it to the next level is consistently putting up those 2006 numbers you are referring to. But many of us thought once he matured into his body he would be a 20-25 HR guy, on top of all his other great numbers, on a consistent basis. We also assumed with his athletic ability and speed he would win the gold glove year after year and recently his defense has taken a step back. Thats really it..
udontmesswthejohan
9/2/2009-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Again, this is why I say that he is a victim of his success. Let’s put it another way. If he were healthy put on the market via trade or free agency, there are maybe 2 or 3 teams who wouldn’t be interested in him. To me, that says all you need to know about his talent, regardless of what a couple of unamed talent evaluators might think.
JoeR
9/2/2009-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
Yes we all know he is good…the question is do you think he could be better and did you think he would be at this point?? You say No I say yes..
trs86
9/2/2009-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
I completely agree. He is a good player already but why all the pressure to become great? If he never gets any better than what he is now then fine.
JoeR
9/2/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
There isnt pressure. Many of us just thought he would mature into a more dominant player…and he still can and i hope he does. If he doesnt he is still a very productive player and welcomed on my team anyday.
trs86
9/2/2009-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
But there is. Maybe not from you but it can’t be hidden that a LOT is expected of Reyes. He had one of the best seasons of all time in 2006 and we expect another level? That’s not pressure?
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
His 2008 was really just as good as his 2006 — .008 OPS difference. The only real difference was in the RBI category, which could be a product of who batted 7th and 8th in 2006 as much as anything.
I don’t consider either season as among “the best seasons of all time” but they’re certainly good enough to be in the MVP category.
If Reyes is never better than that he’s still in the top 2-3 SS in MLB.
I think Reyes has been just fine; it’s our expectations that are out of whack.
What more can you ask from a SS than good defense, an .830 OPS, 50+ steals and 100+ runs?
JoeR
9/2/2009-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
Well he plays in NY. A guy named Jeter works fairly close and has been very good for years. Listen I agree he is good but some thought when he got older he would turn into a Hanley Ramirez type guy before Hanley was what he is lol. Some including myself thought he may hit the 25-30 HR 100 RBI. He may win consecutive gold gloves and to no fault of his own he probably is the 3rd best shortstop in the division. Yes there are good SS in our division but when the media, and maybe unfairly so like you say, tout him as one of the best players in baseball, not SS, some thought he may have that next level we havent seen. This isnt knocking him and maybe we were filled with Reyes hype but I didnt find it unrealistic to think that when he matured and put on 10-15 more lbs he would put up numbers to rival some of the best players in baseball.
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
If you’re including Jimmy Rollins as the SS better than Reyes you’d better check again.
Take away his fluke season two years ago and you have a guy who plays great defense but doesn’t get on base out of the leadoff position and has good power for a SS but less than Reyes, especially when you consider park effects.
trs86
9/2/2009-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, you can’t find to me another classic example of steroids than Jimmy Rollins. His numbers were never that good and then he hulks up and turns into an MVP and now back to uhm average at best.
njstuckintx
9/2/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
If this team is 2-3 players away, which could be had through free agency, minors, etc. you need to stick with Reyes. He definitely has incredible talent and will for many moons to come. If we are more than a few, you trade him, restock the farm and plan for 2011/2012. I wouldn’t trade him, but then again, I’m not GM.
And I agree with TRS on the maturity/focus. Didn’t he get married recently? Wasn’t that supposed to ground him and enable him to focus better? That and he would have extra energy that was previously spent on partying and chasing the ladies…
Will they do that in NY, prob. not. Should they? There’s the debate I guess.
Mr North Jersey
9/2/2009-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
I think this is a non-issue Jose Reyes has been a great player for the last 4 years.
Has he had brain farts and mental lapses? Yes, oh definitely yes but I think we may be expecting too much from Reyes.
Reyes has been consistent for the last 4 years in what he has done well offensively. Go look at what he has done well over that span and take it and run.
There was a time that it was thought maybe he had another level he can up his game to and he may still accomplish that but if he doesn’t and remains where he has been the last 4 years how can we argue with that?
Reyes injury this season is what we should really be concerned with in that is he (Reyes) hesitant because he doesn’t fully trust the Mets Medical Staff or is there more than they are saying?
I remember the last time Reyes had leg issues the club changed the way he ran so when he did run he looked like it was running with a rock in his shoe. He eventually said “No Mas” and ran how he knew best and he proceeded to give us 4 good years of production 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008.
Hopefully in 2010 which if I am not mistaken I believe is his Free Agent year he comes and runs all over MLB and forces Mets to sign him to a Huge contract.
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
Speaking of brain farts, that was a nice example of baserunning by Angel Pagan in the first inning last night.
JoeR
9/2/2009-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Haha and did anyone get the feeling Keith was in a horrible mood last night!! He was picking on Gary imo and sounded like a baby on many occasions.
Kingman 26
9/2/2009-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
He sure was a whiny baby last night….and man, I was getting sick of hearing him whine about Wright’s helmet!
That is why Keith will never be a manager—he clearly has all he can handle being just a broadcaster on most of the games.
JoeR
9/2/2009-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Yup and how he was upset that Ron might have texted gary before him lol!! And how well its not in his contract to work in the studio…
Kingman 26
9/2/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
That was too much, and unreal….a classic and absolutely totally appropriate play from one of the leaders of our “Guys who should be on the bench” posse.
The 2009 highlight film would truly not have been complete without this comically pathetic play.
JoeR
9/2/2009-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Haha
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
It would make quite a nice DVD along with Ryan Church missing 3B, Pelf throwing to no one at 1B, Luis Castillo and Anderson Hernandez looking at each other a few weeks ago when Luis decided not to cover 2B, Luis’s dropped pop-up, Dan Murphy falling on his arse in LF, Beltran not sliding into the plate and Jerry cackling in the background.
I have a headache now.
Kingman 26
9/2/2009-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, a hip hop interpretation of samples of Jerry cackling over and over again would be the perfect soundtrack for this particular horror film, which I hope will be rated NC-17, so no kinds will see it and forever be turned off from baseball….
Mr North Jersey
9/2/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
[OFF TOPIC]
Is anyone concerned that Pelf still is having these mental lapses?
TRS, b4 you comment (your typing as you read this aren’t you?)I agree that we should not give up on Pelf. I am simply saying the time is fast approaching where youth will no longer be an excuse and his ability to put it all together will be called into question. Maybe as soon as July 2010.
JoeR
9/2/2009-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
I agree…time is coming… like next year first half imo. He is approaching 80 starts and he had that one nice stretch last year other than that he has been the same pitcher since he got here. At some point I will believe that stretch was luck to a certain degree. The man went through college and his coach said this year he believes he has gotten worse. His demeanor on the mound and body language his awful. The fact he admitted he has brain farts is beyond me. When during a game a few months ago, he looked at first and saw Murph was playing off the bag and literally 3 seconds later attempted to throw over, I really started to doubt his makeup. Yes body language, etc can be totally misleading but combine that with his comments after games and his mental lapses for a man who IS NOT A ROOKIE and I am concerned. But let the Brandon Webb comparisons continue…I hope somehow he pulls it together but I dont see him becoming, at best, anymore than a 3. Hope Im wrong
Kingman 26
9/2/2009-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
I totally agree….I thought Pelf would arrive and be a 15 game winner this year, and instead he has regressed and looks like a number 4 starter at best.
He throws hard, seems fearless, etc, but something is clearly wrong.
Definitely one of the larger of our very many disappointments this damn year.
JoeR
9/2/2009-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
Im starting to think, what the wrong is you speak of, is just simply he isnt that good or what he was “projected” to be was set too high lol. if we were sold on him being a number 5 we would be thrilled but unfortunately we were told he was a number 2 who has finally put it all together..well that hasnt happened. There hasnt been much pressure on him to perform considering we are playing meaningless games and yet still he cant get it together!! BOO Him!! Maybe next year we will be sold and told…SORRY MET FANS WE MEANT MAINE WOULD BE OUR NUMBER 2 NOT PELFREY LETS SEE HOW THAT PREDICTION PANS OUT!!
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Pelfrey has given up 60 walks in 150 innings compared to 64 in 200 innings last year. That’s one problem… especially when you’ve only struck out 88 guys.
Problem #1 – stop walking people.
He’s also been much more hittable than last season, which is probably related to his control problems.
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
Which reminds me that on the broadcast last night they mentioned that the Mets lead the NL in walks given up,
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
more than half of which has been given up by the BULLPEN!!!!!!!!!
JoeR
9/2/2009-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
19 bases loaded walks!!! Wow
whataputz
9/2/2009-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
It’s not even the mental lapses that concern me. Is he even that good? I mean, the guy has 1 pitch! It’s tough for him to put away batters. How many times do you see him get 2 strikes on a guy and just keep I think I’ve seen a good amount of Pelf and in my opinion, he’s nothing more than a 3 or 4 pitcher.
And as far as the walks go. Pelf needs to embrace the fact that he’s a contact pitcher at Citi field and just throw the ball over the plate.
whataputz
9/2/2009-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
* and keep fouling it off until he either gets hit pitch or walks.
JoeR
9/2/2009-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
Haha you are brave…Im starting to agree after every start but didnt want to get killed for saying he may just not be that good!!
As far as one pitch…we were told he is Brandon Webb the 2009 version..well give me the old product. Maine Im sure will be touted as our future ace number 2 by next year..
whataputz
9/2/2009-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
Well I actually like Maine alot. I understand your useless if you can’t stay healthy, but he’s had times when he actually has looked like an ace. He has that stretch in the first half a couple years back when he was one of the best in the game.
I understand we have some young guys with talent, and potential, but as Matt Cerrone put it “How long can you get by with rotation of Johan, Livan at the time and 3 guys named hope, maybe, and someday”
trs86
9/2/2009-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
I think the end of next year we will have to reasses what Pelfrey is. I am giving him until then to prove this was just he Verducii (sp) issue.
steveo
9/2/2009-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
I hope when he returns next year he doesn’t try to overdue it and prove his nay sayers wrong cause if that becomes his approach he will only reinjure himself or press to hard and eventually suck.
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
From Keith Law:
Josh Thole, C, New York Mets: Thole, like Flowers, doesn’t grade out well in terms of tools or athleticism, but he has a history of performance — in Thole’s case, one that improves when he’s promoted, which is about as good a sign in a player’s statistical record as you’ll find. Thole differs from Flowers in his approach at the plate, as Thole is more about bat control and contact instead of Flowers’ raw power, and, as a result, Thole hit .328/.395/.422 in the Double-A Eastern League this year at age 22. The Mets have received no offense from behind the plate this year and have to be worried about who’ll catch for them in 2010 and beyond, so giving Thole a brief look this month is just good sense.
Insider, MLB
(this might be the first time anyone has uttered the words “good sense” in relation to the Mets all season)
Mr North Jersey
9/2/2009-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
LoL probably a typo.
Kingman 26
9/2/2009-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks for this Wanny.
I am sure Jerry will use Thole against RH only, and probably will have him bunting most of the time.
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
That’s what he said (only v. righties)… and I as I pointed out yesterday, Thole’s BA and OBP v. lefites is identical to his numbers v. righties.
They lose all common sense points, however, for letting Beltran come back. He’s got a condition that can only get worse by playing.
John Maine may also be back in a relief role soon. He’s playing for a contract so I can understand them giving him a shot.
What happened to JJ Putz’s comeback?
Kingman 26
9/2/2009-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
They discovered a new JJ injury and he was totally shut down…
JoeR
9/2/2009-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
yup tore something minor in his arm i believe a couple of weeks ago..Oh well..As far as Beltran WHO THE HELL KNOWS!! They are saying again it has healed and the MRI showed tremendous progress and it cant get worse by playing. Um..yes i thought we heard that already and it got to the point he could walk IDK
JoeR
9/2/2009-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah with all the hype I thought Thole could be something good but when i heard hes projected to be a platoon player and decent at best I became upset. i guess they can be wrong obvioulsy but hearing the opposite would have beeen nice!
stickguy
9/2/2009-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t put too much stock into these “predictions” The guys making them don’t know as much as you think, and are often wrong.
You can’t pigeon hole a guy at age 22 and 1 year of AA like that. He can certainly hit, and no one really knows how he will develop in the next few years.
JoeR
9/2/2009-1:47pm at 1:47 pm (UTC -4)
ok agreed and I hope
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
Bart Hubbuch of the NY Post PREDICTS the Mets will pursue John Lackey and a power hitting left fielder but little else. He sees the pitching staff as:
Santana, Lackey, Pelfrey, Perez and Niese (Maine non-tendered), K-Rod, Stokes, Parnell, Nieve, Feliciano, Misch, Figueroa and Green (Green only if they go with 8).
Dan Murphy at 1B.
I highly doubt the bullpen remains status quo.
Kingman 26
9/2/2009-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I also agree about the pen; surely it will have at least one new arm, and no way Figgy is on the team. He sux. The Cubs mailed that game in Sunday.
stickguy
9/2/2009-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
depends on who the power hitting LF is, but if that is the bulk of the off season, consider it a success!
That, and there will be more movement with the bench and pen than he prdicts.
I am sondering if they might land a power hitting 1B instead, and find an alternate (but better) solution of LF.
But at this point, and with Omar(?) in charge, who the heck knows.
mrbill
9/2/2009-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
“Some loyal Reyes supporters said that last September was lost by Wright’s inability to hit in the clutch or the bullpen’s suckitude”
And some loyal Wright supporters said that last September was lost by just the bullpen.
Reyes hasn’t performed well in September, that is no secret. He shares some responsibility as Wright does and of course the bullpen.
*cant wait until next week for Wright’s poll trs lol
stickguy
9/2/2009-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, a Mr. Bill sighting!
Is this wehre I am supposed to point out that in September, Wright had very go numbers (and lots of production), unlike Reyes, and you are cherry icking a couple of ABs to form your opinion around?
saltygary
9/2/2009-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
I going to go with this angle. not that I completely believe in it, it’s just I don’t see it written.
Maybe drugs are the reason for his success and his late season decline. By the end of the season he could be so worn out, that his body becomes burnt out and he can’t put up the numbers.. Now this year his body has broken down and it won’t heal. Maybe his body has stopped responding to the crap that he pumps into it anymore. Who the hell knows.
I love Reyes but I don’t think the team can rely on him anymore. I hope that I am wrong.
stickguy
9/2/2009-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
ONe thing I would bet on is that, even if Reyes comes back “healthy”. expect to see him run less.
He is getting older, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the leg issue stays inthe back of his mind.
So, I doubt he will be stealing 60-80 bags again. But, as long as he uses is speed on the bases (and maybe finally become a more intelligent baserunner) he will still have ‘game”.
I believe in the theory that SBs are way overrated. I forget who did the analysis, but they proved that if you don’t steal at a 80% success rate or higher, you are actually costing the team runs.
So, the idea of moving him down the order gains some steam.
ANd please, stop with the bunting Reyes to 2nd nonsense. Even if he isn’t going to run wild, let him steal in that situation if you are willing to give up an out (which is very rarely the right idea, and never in the early innings, unless it is a P batting).
saltygary
9/2/2009-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
Yea there is no way the team is going to get 60 sb out of him anymore. The problem with this is it will take away the havoc he creates when he is at first. Not only does he get the sb but he forces mental mistakes especially to the SP and C which creates more opportunities for other batters. This is why the team has such a high win percentage when he scores in the first inning.
stickguy
9/2/2009-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
as long as he is still going sometimes, and the P knows he might, he will still cause the disruption.
his biggest use of his speed really becomes taking the extra base (1st to third, stretching singles into doubles, and scoring from 1st when other guys might not). And he could use those attributes outside of the 1 hole.
stickguy
9/2/2009-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
something else that I wonder ifit is normal around baseball.
The Mets (or maybe just obsessive fans?) seem to rush prospects up young.
Reyes is being debated as if he was a faded old veteran, but he is just 26. Thole up above was being discussed (platoon guy at best?), and he is just 22 with 1 year of AA experience. Neise, 22. And of course, the great F Mart experiment from earlier this year.
Don’t other teams actually keep guys in the minors until they really prove to be ready to come up? I just look at the Phils with their home grown core. Howard and Utley came up at 24 for a taste, and regulars at 25ish. Happ is already 26. Ruiz was a rookie last year, and he is as old as Santos.
I guess my point is, would it really be a problem, or a big deal (failure?) if Thole or Neise or F Mart sepnd 2010 and 2011 getting better in the minors? It hurts the Mets to the extent (short trerm) that they won’t be up, but isn’t that better than trhowing them out there before they are prepared?
You can go back to Pelfrey too. Would he be more successful now if he had 1 more full year at AAA to rally master all his pitches?
saltygary
9/2/2009-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
I think it’s a NY thing. The teams create hype boasting their prospects and there is such much media coverage it makes it seem like these players are taking too long to come up when in fact they generally get called up too early. FMART has been on the fans radar since he was five years old and it was obvious from this season that he was not ready. The yanks have had to deal with the same exact issue.
Living in Sox nation it’s the same hype from the fanbase but the office has no problem pissing their fans off by keeping their young talen in the minors. Just look at Bucholz who threw the No Hitter 2 years ago and they are still trying to protect him. If that guy was with the Mets or Yanks he would of thrown 500 innings in the majors at this point.
fongy2
9/2/2009-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
Amen!,Brother.
As I’ve said a thousand times
over the past five years…..
As Jose Reyes goes….So go
The Mets.
P.S., Does Omar make the
training staff the scapegoat
for this disaster of a season?…How can guys be placed on the DL with a pulled or strained muscle in
May and we not see them again
the rest of the season?
Who ever heard of this?
P.S.#2, Didn’t Putz and Redding have to take physicals in order to
complete their deals?
AND as for Thole”not having
great physical tools”…
This is baseball..where the
short,slow and fat can have
nice careers.The Steroid era
is over! The kid can hit and
knows what hes doing behind the plate. Since hes up…
Just let him play.
Again though, why are Jerry
and Omar even allowed to make
these decisions at this point?
trs86
9/2/2009-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
Agree on Thole, Redding cleared his physical so who the hell knows. Putz, I think there was the chance for bone spurs all along.
Here’s my question on Reyes. “As Reyes Goes So Go the Mets” we hear this all the time and it’s true to some extent. Is it a good thing to be so reliant on someone like Reyes who has not performed in September and is incredibly streaky? Again this is just about Reyes. You can say some similar things about Wright but that’s tomorrow.
fongy2
9/2/2009-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
No baseball team can or should be dependant on
any one player.
Again,Jose is
YOUNG yet,hasn’t reached his prime and MAYBE
only Straw and
Wright ever put
together four
seasons like this kid did.
trs86
9/2/2009-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
Fongy, you know I like Reyes. I am not saying give up on him. Am I open to trading him if we still stink next year? Sure. Same with Beltran. Prime can’t be attached to an age but we hope he has not reached his prime. My point is that if as goes Reyes, well may need to solve that problem. So far Reyes has shown that in September he is too tired or maybe not focused enough to pull the team.
JoeR
9/2/2009-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
I dont see it as a problem. I think your getting caught up in the words…maybe it should be “as reyes goes so do the mets a little more” We were going fine offensively up until this year and Reyes was hitting .750. He helps as does any lead off hitter with his qualities.
trs86
9/2/2009-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
But that is not what is said or even shown Joe. When Wright does poorly and the offense is clicking we normally move on. When Reyes is doing poorly we normally struggle. There is this perception in the media and who knows maybe on the team that if Reyes struggles we lose. That’s a lot of pressure on the kid and so far it is mostly true.
That’s why I want to bring in a guy like Figgins or Crawford to help take some of the pressure off Reyes.
JoeR
9/2/2009-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
Oh amen to Figgins and Crawford for 1000 reasons. I beg Omar to go that route. This way we only need to grab one big bat and with Castillo, the new castillo, we will have men all over the base paths. we would generate runs better than the Angels!
trs86
9/2/2009-2:59pm at 2:59 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe, but as someone on here pointed out the Angels have more power than we do. I think that if you bring in Figgins then you have to do one of three things.
A) Bring in a real 1B
B) Trade Castillo
C) Move Reyes down in the order
We have went over C over and over. LOL.
stickguy
9/2/2009-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
Can I pick D, all of the above?
trs86
9/2/2009-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
No Stick, I am a SS teacher. You have to pick the one that is the MOST correct.
JoeR
9/2/2009-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
I think its fine. It got us a game away from the WS and barring two awful bullpen collapses we would be trying for our 4th straight playoff appearance.
fongy2
9/2/2009-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
AND…
The kid was pretty
darn good in
THAT Champioship Series!
trs86
9/2/2009-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
But I thought the bullpen was NOT the reason we did not make the playoffs?
JoeR
9/2/2009-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
I disagree. Reyes and both Wright were more than ready and productive the day they arrived. FMart was up here for injuries. Pelfrey has been up here going on 4 years. Yes if we were talking 2007 then maybe that could be said for Pelf. Thloe is being discussed because he is about to play on the big team.
trs86
9/2/2009-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
Pelfrey is a stretch. It would be saying that if he was allowed another full year in the minors he could have developed that 2nd go to pitch.
Reyes and Wright, why would they have not come up?
Thole, this is a normal September call up. As long as he is not getting everyday duty then it’s no big deal.
JoeR
9/2/2009-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
My sentiments exactly.
trs86
9/2/2009-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
Now Fmart, we totally botched that one. Omar listened to the media and fans. Kid is finally having a good MILB season. Leave him alone. Reed and Sullivan would have been just fine.
fongy2
9/2/2009-2:55pm at 2:55 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed!
Although when the calendar turned to March AND Bobby Abreu STILL didnt have a contract….Well..you know.
trs86
9/2/2009-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
That’s not what I was saying but you know I wanted Abreu.
I was saying once the injuries occured there was still no reason to call up Fmart. Why do you have guys like Reed and Sullivan if they can’t fill in and you have to call up a 19 year old.
fongy2
9/2/2009-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
Pelf is 25years
old.He’s not
even close to his prime yet
as aPitcher.
trs86
9/2/2009-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
No doubt, at the end of next year if Pelfrey has had 2 straight seasons like this then that maybe what he is. Right now this is only his 2nd full year and look at most pitcher’s 2nd full year.
fongy2
9/2/2009-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
Biggest problem w/Pelf is that as a contact Pitcher,he needs the guys behind him to play like MLBers not the Bad News Bears.
trs86
9/2/2009-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
True, but I don’t think that is his issue at all this year. He has not been bitten by the error bug that much. He has increased his hit and walk rate. Sure defense could explain the hit rate but not the walk rate. He has flat out struggled with his control this year just as that Verduccawhatever guy said he would.
fongy2
9/2/2009-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
And b/t/w..
its Omar whos been building
up FMart
for 4yrs
now.
JoeR
9/2/2009-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
agreed! we were led to believe or at least I got the impression he was on the Reyes/Wright path 150% no if or ands…I thought that was the case with Gomez too for a bit then he just disappeared lol
trs86
9/2/2009-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
Gomez?
JoeR
9/2/2009-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
yeah Carlos Gomez…did I have a mental block lol the guy we traded for Santana..that is his name right?
trs86
9/2/2009-3:01pm at 3:01 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I just did not think you were refering to him. Maybe Flores. Gomez was rushed for sure but he disappeared because he got traded right?
JoeR
9/2/2009-3:03pm at 3:03 pm (UTC -4)
He did get traded but maybe Im misguided but wasnt he as untouchable as FMart at one point? His speed, etc, etc
trs86
9/2/2009-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
No, Gomez was actually always considered trade bait by most in the blogsphere. He was viewed as only useful in CF and we already had one of those. Milledge on the otherhand was touted as god of baseball.
fongy2
9/2/2009-2:59pm at 2:59 pm (UTC -4)
Hard to really tell given how sloppy this team has been since the start of the yr,when we still had all hands on deck.
Who knows what it does to a young pitchers head when hes gotta hold his breath every time contacts made and knowing that if he gives up anything theres a good chance his teammates won’t be picking him up w/any rallys.
Bottom line ..with all thats occurred this season, its a little hard to judge almost anything.
….Except of course that Omar and Jerry suck at their jobs!
JoeR
9/2/2009-3:02pm at 3:02 pm (UTC -4)
…And that I cant believe Im saying this because I would regularly and viciously rant on this man, Castillo is welcomed back for 2010!! Lol
trs86
9/2/2009-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
I like Castillo and you guys from Metsblog know I took hell for it.
However, I think we should trade him this offseason. I actually think we would not have to chip in anything maybe?
Then sign Hudson for 3/21 and Figgins for the same. That changes your lineup for sure.
My fear is where does Castillo bat if you bring in Figgins? Castillo to me is worthless as a #8 hitter he has to hit 1-2 to be effective. I think the Cubs would love to have him.
Reyes, Figgins, Hudson, Beltran, Wright, Frenchy, Murphy, Santos is passable however
Reyes, Figgins, Beltran, Wright, Frenchy, Murphy, Santos, Castillo is not.
JoeR
9/2/2009-3:21pm at 3:21 pm (UTC -4)
Im liking you more and more the thought of Figgins and Hudson is wonderful but I really think we need that one more big bat with losing Delgado…The only way we wouldnt would be if Frenchy returns to his old self and actually Wright too. Im assuming his HR’s come back though
trs86
9/2/2009-3:24pm at 3:24 pm (UTC -4)
Oh I do too, however, I don’t see us fixing everything and with Ike on the way maybe we could hold off on 1B and just hope the power fixes it self. Now don’t get me wrong, I am no Hudson lover. I just think he fits the team more as to what we need. If no Figgins or Crawford, I would just as soon to keep Castillo.
JoeR
9/2/2009-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
Well the bottom line then is, management shouldnt tout him as our number 2 starter on a team that was suppose to go to the WS. Maybe on the Nationals but not here
fongy2
9/2/2009-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed!
Like I’ve said over and over …More Omar Jive!
trs86
9/2/2009-2:55pm at 2:55 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, LOL Nats he would be billed as the #1. Remember Redding was their ace for a while. LOL.
But he should have had the pressure taken off of him for sure. Even by signing Perez you take pressure of Pelfrey by letting him have the #4 spot in the rotation. Same rotation but different spot makes a huge difference mentally.
JoeR
9/2/2009-3:00pm at 3:00 pm (UTC -4)
Im just so afraid that even if, and its a big If, Omar gets us a number 2, if Ollie and Pelf and Maine arent what we were sold, we are in loads of trouble!!! I guess I have the most faith in Maine only because i forgot how he pitches! lol
trs86
9/2/2009-3:03pm at 3:03 pm (UTC -4)
Hmmm,
I think we would be fine for sure with
Johan, Lackey, Pelfrey, Ollie, Maine, Niese, Nieve, Parnell, Gee as our pitching options.
JoeR
9/2/2009-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
I want to agree but are you factoring in Pelf, Ollie, and Maine are going to snap out of it?? I really am convinced Ollie is what he is and Pelf is close to being what he is…I will give Pelf to the second half next year but Im afraid we arent going to be blown away on how Pelf has got it together…
trs86
9/2/2009-3:08pm at 3:08 pm (UTC -4)
I am not factoring ANYTHING on Maine. His spot is up for grabs with every #5. But as for Pelfrey and Ollie? Not really much we can do there. If Ollie struggles again then you have one of those other guys that could be a #4/5.
fongy2
9/2/2009-3:04pm at 3:04 pm (UTC -4)
What ever happened to the “Castillos a bad influence on Reyes”talk???
Does seem that he hasn’t been the
same guy since Slappy got here.
JoeR
9/2/2009-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe Castillo made it clear there can only be one gangsta up the middle and you betta belive Slappy is it!
trs86
9/2/2009-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
Or it could be that he got shot down by the media after the collapse which just happened to be when Castillo came in. After his dreadful September in 2007 he was a basketcase for a while. I don’t think that had anything to do with Castillo. It’s not like his 2008 was a bad season. Stat wise it was as good as 2006.
trs86
9/2/2009-3:30pm at 3:30 pm (UTC -4)
Musings on MLBTR
Millwood will most likely not hit FA. Option will vest and Rangers want to keep him. Damn.
Hudson will hit FA again and will seen multiyear deal.
Lots of options for cheaper 1B who make take encentive contracts. Johnson, Delgado, Bryanyan, Blalock and Huff. I would LOVE to get Blalock.
Abreu will most likely stay in LA.
Teahen and Meche coudl be traded this offseason. I would not mind Teahen in a bench role/ 1B in an emergency. Meche would be a decent guy to slide into the middle of the rotation.
Dye will be traded or released this offseason.
stickguy
9/2/2009-3:31pm at 3:31 pm (UTC -4)
murphy for teahan. seems even to me!
trs86
9/2/2009-3:41pm at 3:41 pm (UTC -4)
What would KC do with him? I would think Teahan would command Parnell still.
trs86
9/2/2009-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
Thing is, do we think Murphy could NOT do this next year?
.279 .331 .423 .754
trs86
9/2/2009-3:43pm at 3:43 pm (UTC -4)
Considering he is here this year
.259 .314 .389 .703
and here in the 2nd half
.275 .315 .425 .740
and here in the last month
.292 .308 .434 .741
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-3:58pm at 3:58 pm (UTC -4)
Why such an emphatic love for Blalock?
He plays an average 1B (at best) and has hit .236 .276 .469 this season. If he wants to come sit on the bench as a backup 1B and pinch hitter, that’s fine. But I can sure live without him.
He’s got legitimate power but he can’t stay healthy and doesn’t hit consistently. The former is a recurring theme among the guys we already rely on and the latter is a recurring theme of the guys who are actually playing.
trs86
9/2/2009-4:04pm at 4:04 pm (UTC -4)
Blah blah blah blah.
LOL, how dare you continue to throw facts into our thoughts?
Ok so he has struggled. Do you not think it is possible he rebounds? In his down year he still has 23 HR and a .745 OPS. Would you rather have him or Murphy play 1B? My opinion if you are not going to get a top guy then go after a guy that could rebound on the cheap. He had two injury seasons in 2007 and 2008 but again unless we trade for someone, then what 1B out there does not have questions?
trs86
9/2/2009-4:13pm at 4:13 pm (UTC -4)
How much do you think Blaylock, Russell, Delgado and guys like that will cost? I really have no idea. I was thinking Delgado would get something like 5M with incentives?
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-4:18pm at 4:18 pm (UTC -4)
That sounds about right for Delgado. I would guess his incentives bring him close to $10m total.
No idea on the others. Someone might overpay Blalock because he’s still relatively young and has legit home run power anywhere.
To me Branyan is still a platoon player, though he still has good power v. lefties: .222 .321 .481 v LHP. He doesn’t make sense to play behind/with Murphy. But 31 HRs will mean he’s probably not going to be cheap.
stickguy
9/2/2009-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
they will all cost a lot more than Murphy.
You have to keep in mind the mets have a budget (and maybe not too much to spend), and murphy will work for about minimum wage next year, vs. 5-10 million (or whatever those ofther guys get).
If they are all questions marks, might as well stay in house, and put the money elsewhere.
I know we did this exercise a lot last off season, but marquis + blalock or murphy + lackey?
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
the latter… in a landslide.
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-4:14pm at 4:14 pm (UTC -4)
A lot of things are possible but he hasn’t been good since 2004. That’s a pretty long rebound.
I’ll go with Murphy. And maybe pick up a cheap option that has either been healthy or decent within the last 5 years.
stickguy
9/2/2009-3:30pm at 3:30 pm (UTC -4)
new post for the loose ends:
1) TRS, I hope they do trade Castillo. One thing Omar has not done well is buy low, trade high.
Right now, Castillo can’t possibly do any better next year. I would be shocked if he has this productive, and healthy, a year again. So, if he can be traded for something useful, do it ASAP. But, Omar will probably look at it from the perspective of he had a good year, so I have to keep him.
2) Figgins I have warmed up to, but from looking at the MLBTR stuff recently, it looks like he won’t come cheap (and that he wants to stay in LA). But even worse, he really wants to play 3B, so selling him on LF in NY might be difficult. And there should be competition for his services.
3) Pelf I think badly needs the off season to come. And for some reason, I think next year will be a rebound (improvement) year. I still want them to bring in a decent #2 (and millwood might be out, since his option is about to vest), and none of that crop should be guaranteed a spot, but pelf/maine/neise/nieve/ollie/parnell should be enough of a pool to put together the last 3 spots. Maybe some other fresh blood too, but no spots given, and no livan or redding craptastic guys.
4) speaking of Maine, I am also anxious to see how he looks/feels this sept. If he looks good, he gets tendered, and I actually think he could be a prime rebound guy next year, if he is finally comfortable with the shoulder repair and the pain is gone. Again, I don’t guarantee him a spot, put I want to see him in the mix.
5) that pool of SP candidates noted above could help fill out a nice strong pen. Neive, even maine, have live arms and could do some damage in mid, or even short, relief if they get squeezed out of the rotation. And the depth at 6/7/8 is nice to have.
6) the bat I still think will come from 1B. Murphy as a bench guy is fine. Pena would be a perfect 1 year plug, hoping that Davis cranks in AAA and is ready by 2011.
7) Reyes I am still fine with moving down. And if Castillo is here, he needs to hit 1 or 2. And no more buniting a speed guy over in the 1st inning! I actually prefer castillo 1 and reyes 2 if they are both in the lineup, and they don’t bring in another speed guy like crawford or Figgins.
trs86
9/2/2009-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
Can you send me the link on Figgins? I did see where he most likely will look for 3/24.
Castillo I don’t see traded for anything useful unless we pick up cash but I could see a guy that could either help in the pen or bench?
I don’t see why Pelfrey would not be guaranteed at least a spot? Even struggling he can put up at least #5 numbers.
I don’t get why Maine is even playing this season. Warm him up for 2 weeks to shut him back down. Send him to winter league or something. I could honestly see him being in the pen next year. Especially considering they did not even FIX what was wrong did they?
Agreed on depth in the rotation that can go to the pen. Parnell, Nieve, Maine all could and most likely will pitch in the pen some.
I wish I had your optimisim on 1B but I think they will leave it. A lot of people are still high on Murphy and he has had a decent 2nd half.
Agreed on Reyes and Castillo. I just wonder if we are losing some value on Reyes if he is not going to steal as much and he hits 1st, but I have already covered that a lot.
stickguy
9/2/2009-4:00pm at 4:00 pm (UTC -4)
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/08/discussion-chone-figgins.html
I think a lot of the info was gleaned from the comments.
for Pelf, he will certainly be on the staff, but when I said not guaranteed a spot I meant a specific spot in the rotation 9and no, I don’t see him sent to the pen). But, he could end up 3, 4 or 5.
I figure a new bat (unless they roll the dice with molina, or unload castillo) will only come from 1B or LF, so if they can’t find a decent LF, then 1B by default it is. ANd as noted at MLBTR, there are a few to choose from.
As to Maine, if I recall correctly (and of course, the reports were accurate), he was “fixed”, and the resulting issue was some kind of scar tissue breaking up, and weakness that needed to be rehabbed. Or mostly mental?
so, if he has been rehabbing and pitching live is the next step, let him do it. He needs to prove (probably for his own confidence) that he can do it, plus the Mets have to see if he can before they tender him.
If he was signed for 4 more years, screw it and let him rest. Being an arb guy, yeah he needs to pitch if he is ready.
who knows, he might be that 8th inning set up guy you need next year.
could be some parallels to Brett Myers. Lot’s of stuff, occasional dominance but often erratic as a SP, then moved to the pen and had a pretty good year as a closer.
I say load the pen up sith guys that can also start. and skip lima time entirely.
trs86
9/2/2009-4:12pm at 4:12 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks after reading that, I think it is very up in the air where he goes. That guy Scott was full of crap so…
Yeah rotation order for sure will change for many of our SP.
I still just don’t see them upgrading Murphy, I wish I was wrong. I told you I still think it will be Vlad and Molina.
Maine’s issue is though did they not say he may just have to learn to pitch with pain? LOL? I would just rest him and offer arbitration and then offer him 20% less than this year either way..
I could see him being the setup guy for sure.
I thought we had that this year with depth and then all hell broke lose and guys like Pat Misch are getting starts.
stickguy
9/2/2009-4:19pm at 4:19 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, Misch had a pretty good one. You never know when a guy comes out of nowhere and sticks. Not that it ever happens with the Mets..
the whole pitch with pain thing is hard to interpret. Maine I think it was scar tissue? So the pain was something to work through and it would go away. Some goes have problems that never will go away, like Putz, without the surgery.
Rehab does hurt usually, even if you know mentally that it is getting better!
For 1B, if they get a good hitting LF, and start with Murphy at 1B, they better be keeping Ike Davis, and be willig to switch when needed. IOW< murphy has to be on a really short leash.
Get a better platoon partner too, even if it is a nick evans type!
This is going to be a long off season, even though I still think Omar can make a few quick, shrewd moves and plug the holes quickly, affordably and without gutting th efarm. Not I said he can, not that he will.
If he just gets Vlad and Molina, both type As most likely, right? I will probably take next year off.
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
Vlad would be a terrible signing too. Unhealthy and can barely move in the OF…
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
Hubbuch thought the Mets would go on the cheap at the C position next season with Santos and either another scrub or Thole.
This is fine by me if Molina is the only expensive option. He’s really looking shot, which is consistent with his age and shape.
I agree; I think Murphy gets the first shot next year, especially if he continues the slight improvement we’ve seen recently. It wouldn’t surprise me to see both of Nick Evans and Chris Carter on the bench next season behind him.
I hope Omar gets creative in trading for a LFer. No idea who that might be but I don’t see Boston or St. Loo letting Bay/Holliday go (and I worry about both of them at Citifield anyway).
If Omar is going to spend on one player, I hope it is Lackey. I think that’s the biggest need.
stickguy
9/2/2009-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
hard to argue with any of this!
stickguy
9/2/2009-4:29pm at 4:29 pm (UTC -4)
The bench could be interesting next year. Lets say they start murphy at 1B, and get a LF from outside the organization.
Can you be happy with a bench of Pagan, Carter, Evans, BU ctcher and someone (Cora?) to fill the MI spot?
Probably too much OF and 1B there. One of them will have to go for a guy that can play 3B, right?
Unless the MI guy can also play 3rd, but that spreads too thin. Or, can murphy be the BU 3B?
I hate a 5 man bench!
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-4:43pm at 4:43 pm (UTC -4)
I’m fine with it like that — with Cora being the backup 3B too. But you’re probably right that one of Evans or Carter would likely give way to someone with a bit more positional versatility and defensive value.
But as I said before, I would not be surprised to see them both on the bench as part of a 1B by committee if Murphy does not shoot out of the box. Evans, at 23, particularly, could be sent to AAA for another season to work on his defense in LF and maybe even 3B (he was drafted as a 3B and played about 30 minir league games there).
stickguy
9/2/2009-5:45pm at 5:45 pm (UTC -4)
I forgot that evans was a 3B too.
anyway, BU 3B with DW on the team is more of an emergency only position, so evans/murphy should be able to handle it!
Hey, murphy would be the emergency MI too, so he really is becoing a jack of all trades.
wannybackstra
9/2/2009-4:47pm at 4:47 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t love Paul Konerko but the Sox are obviously starting over somewhat, he’s entering the last year of his deal paying $12m, he’s still effective (.278 .349 .486, which are almost identical to his career averages) and he’ll be 34 next season.
Perhaps there is a trade that makes sense in there somewhere? Ideally, we’d pawn off a little bit of salary in exchange but I don’t really see who that would be.
stickguy
9/2/2009-5:43pm at 5:43 pm (UTC -4)
Konerko is better than what they have now, and likely better than what they will have next year! But again, he is expensive, and not really that good (IOW, is he a difference maker?)
Depending on the prospect cost, and salary picked up, i would rather shoot for Pena.
But again, at 10 million more than Murphy (or evans, or carter, or heck, Ike davis, whichever one takes the job out of ST), is it the best use of supposedly limited payroll $$s?
If they could trade for a thumpish LF (no, I don’t know who), I could live with a young/cheap guy competition for 1B, if they also manage to spend money for a good SP like lackey.
Or, if they spend money on a big 1B bat (Pena?), do the same open tryouts for LF (maybe a platoon with carter and evans, and I still don’t know why Murton isn’t on this team already!), and again, $ to Sp.
You ain’t getting big expensive bats for 1B and LF, and if you do, don’t look for a decent Sp to be coming on board!