According to the latest rankings at MLBTR Carlos Delgado, Gary Sheffield, Brian Schneider and Fernando Tatis are all locks to be type B FA.
This makes me think 2 things. The damn system is broken and what is a compensation pick worth?
The arbitration process is confusing to many. You can read up on it here. Not only that but then throwing in how the Type A and Type B process works compounds the issue. You can read up on that here. Finally, the amount you can offer in arbitration is now in debate. Take a look at this from the rule book:
“If the Player accepts the offer to arbitrate, he shall be a signed player for the next season and the parties will conduct a salary arbitration proceeding under Article VI; provided, however, that the rules concerning maximum salary reduction set forth in Article VI shall be inapplicable and the parties shall be required to exchange figures on the last day established for the exchange of salary arbitration figures under Article VI”
Confused yet? OK so based on my understanding the 20% reduction rule only applies to players who are not eligible for FA or have never been a FA. Example, Maine would fall under the 20% rule but Delgado would not.
Next piece of confusing information. Arbitration contracts are NOT guaranteed until close to the start of the season. Thus if a player stinks in spring training then you would only owe him what he has earned in spring training.
So based on all of that. Would you risk offering arbitration to any of the 4 Horseman Donkey’s?
26 comments
gipperpdx
9/3/2009-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t let the door hit you on the… etc.
wannybackstra
9/3/2009-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
An emphatic NO.
It’s a real kick in the seat, though, that a guy who has produced in his career like Delgado is a Type A, especially coming off the great season he had last year. But the years before and after were lost.
wannybackstra
9/3/2009-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
I’m assuming that if Sheff is offered arbitration, the starting point would be his $14m total contract? Ha! He’d be nuts not to accept.
I wonder if Delgado would accept but I wouldn’t take the chance. He’s not getting guaranteed big money anywhere. He will be this season’s Bobby Abreu.
trs86
9/3/2009-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Here was my thinking. Sheff now way in hell do I offer.
Delgado, hmmm. Would he accept arbitration? If he was healthy? No. Unhealthy will he take a 1 year deal in arbitration? What’s he worth to the arbitrator. Delgado would HAVE to say 8M it would be pointless to ask for the full 10M after a season lost. Mets would most likely offer 4? Which one would the arbitrator choose? Would Delgado on the open market be able to make more than 4M counting incentives? Is it worth him risking it?
Tatis, considering he only made 1.7 the Mets could offer arbitration hoping he declined and then if he accepted it offer .75M he would most likely counter with 1.5? Is it worth the risk? We could just keep him until ST and release him?
Schneider, again makes 4.9 I would think he could ask for 4M easily and the Mets would most likely offer 2M. But with Schneider, could he find work for 2M a year or even 4M a year? I have no idea.
stickguy
9/3/2009-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
what a motley crew, and 4 guys high on my list of ones I want off the team next year (heck, cut them today!).
but, trying to think logically, Schnieder no way, and sheff no way. Too much money, and too good a chance they accept.
But, if they can be released in ST, it would depend on how much you are on the hook for, and are there any restrictions?
But I still say no.
Tatis? he is cheap, but who is going to sign him? But again, if you can cut him (not that Omar would, if he is still around), maybe.
Delgado? Only if they decide to roll the dice on 1 more year from him. At best, you get the power hitting 1B you need for 1 year, not too much money (Pena lite?)
at worst, he accepts, and sucks still, so gets cut in ST? messy though.
actually, at best he gets an offer from the AL to DH!
a couple of compensation picks though would be nice to have.
now the Angels, they are going to restock the entire farm on this draft, with 5 type As!
fongy2
9/3/2009-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
Big fan of Delgado since he
was a kid with the Jays,
Never liked Shef for all the
obvious reasons,Tatis pretty
easy to root for despite the
whole ‘roids thing and Scheider…well, he is what
he is. Having said that, thanks but no thanks to all.
Time to move on.
We had an interesting few
years with this group but
its over. Again, time to move
on.
trs86
9/3/2009-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
How many of them will they actually let go though? I am sure they want to retain Abreu and Figgins. Oliver would accept arbitration again.
fongy2
9/3/2009-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
They will focus first
on Lackey.
One would think.
No?
trs86
9/3/2009-1:47pm at 1:47 pm (UTC -4)
Actually I think unless Kazmir is terrible they let him walk.
wannybackstra
9/3/2009-1:57pm at 1:57 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know how much money they will have to spend but I would think ace pitcher in his prime will take priority over aging base stealer, aging corner outfielder and ancient middle reliever. Especially considering they’ve had so many issues with their starting pitching depth this season (and as usual Scoscia handled it as well as anyone could have).
trs86
9/3/2009-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
Very true, there have just been rumbles stating that Kazmir showed the end of Lackey.
wannybackstra
9/3/2009-3:49pm at 3:49 pm (UTC -4)
The Stark article that saltygary referenced below says that Lackey will demand Burnett money.
I actually think that is fair given his age and his credentials (as usual the Yankees drove up the market price for everyone else) but I really don’t see the Mets going there.
If I had to guess, the Mets will again go into next season without a true #2 pitcher.
metsfan4decades
9/3/2009-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
- We have to be able to do better than Schneider’s .180 BA and numerous trips to the DL for a catcher.
- I can’t see the point in carrying Sheff strictly for PH, since this isn’t the AL and he can’t play the outfield anymore.
- Tatis, who I like, I believe is the odd man out on bench players for the Mets. He should really only be a 4th or 5th choice behind others such as Pagan.
- Delgado? I’m willing to bet Delgado’s bat is still good. That being said, I’m completely gun shy about all these injuries this year and do we really want to take a chance on that signing, only to lose him again for half the season or better?
Thanks for the memories, boys. I say it’s time to move on.
trs86
9/3/2009-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I don’t want any of them back.
Question is are any of them worth offering arbitration to in a gamble to get a compensation pick?
Mr North Jersey
9/3/2009-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
Pedro Feliciano
Francisco Rodriguez
Johan Santana
Jose Reyes
David Wright
Carlos Beltran
These are the only players I definitely want back in 2010 I do not want them traded or dangled for a trade or anything like that.
saltygary
9/3/2009-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
Extremely lengthy article from Mr. Stark @ ESPN about how to approach the future and what other GM’s think about the teams current and future endeavors.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings090903
metsfan4decades
9/3/2009-3:35pm at 3:35 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, thanks for the link. Interesting….
I’d really like this better if they identified the ‘baseball execs’, they polled to put this article together….
Lots of different opinions and depending on how you look at things, most all valid.
All we can do is wait and see..
saltygary
9/3/2009-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
Yea Stark never gives out the execs names in his articles. It would be nice to know who say what.
trs86
9/3/2009-3:44pm at 3:44 pm (UTC -4)
Well, there were valid points in the article. Many I do not agree with and some overblown but we have a lot of questions.
wannybackstra
9/3/2009-3:59pm at 3:59 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think the farm system is as barren as those particular scouts make it out to be (and who knows if those guys are major league or minor league scouts?). The problem in the Mets system is that it is sorely lacking in the upper levels, while the lower levels have quite a bit of talent.
Still, though, the point that help is not on the way for next year is true. Even if Davis and Thole come up at some point next season (despite Thole’s 1.000 avg.), they’re likely not going to be difference makers as rookies, if they’re anything more than solid regulars at all.
I also don’t agree that the Mets could not be competitive with a few free agent signings. If “the core” is healthy they still have as much talent as anyone. I just don’t think we can expect a few free agent signings. But surely a lineup of Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Holliday, N. Johnson, Francoeur, Santos and a rotation headed by Santana and Lackey would be a contender.
wannybackstra
9/3/2009-3:44pm at 3:44 pm (UTC -4)
Well, that was warm and fuzzy.
On the flipside, Keith Law said in his ESPN chat today that the Mets minor league system is not as bad as people make it out to be.
wannybackstra
9/3/2009-4:08pm at 4:08 pm (UTC -4)
Of the players auditioning for roles next season, none seem to be capable of being difference makers. Only Misch and Pagan show promise as role players. Pagan has been surprisingly effective in the leadoff role, though he is absolutely brain dead sometimes. He’d make a nice 4th outfielder. I guess Santos has already proven that he can be a major league player, albeit better in a backup role.
Anderson Hernandez is just brutal.
Nelson Figueroa is hard to predict. He’s probably best at what he is now, a AAAA Buffalo-New York shuttle passenger.
Tim Redding was a giant mistake.
Brian Stokes has stuff but is obviously better off in a low leverage role.
Bobby Parnell won’t be an effective pitcher until he learns to command his slider — and that goes for the bullpen too.
Cory Sullivan can be a 5th outfielder but doesn’t have a particular skill, i.e. speed, power or exceptional defense that would lead me to ink him in as a serviceable player in that role.
Jeremy Reed seems to have been lost in the shuffle. See, Cory Sullivan.
Wilson Valdez is a slick fielder. But makes Rey Ordonez look like a 25 year old Nomar Garciaparra at the plate.
Alex Cora did yeoman’s work as a backup infielder. He can come back.
Nick Evans is an enigma. But hasn’t gotten a real chance. Put him in LF next year at Buffalo and maybe have him play some 3B.
saltygary
9/3/2009-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
Agree. Figi would be a great long reliever and fill in for the 5th spot. I would like to see Cora come back. He has a great attitude and a desire to contribute. And for the rest they can dump them all except Parnell. He still has a lot of time to show something.
stickguy
9/3/2009-5:03pm at 5:03 pm (UTC -4)
just read that article. Just a tad on the sensationalistic side, and some of his “experts” either get their info from ESPN, or have an agenda and are blowing smoke.
Yes, the mets have issues to deal with, but every team does.
I loved the guy that said if all the injured players come back, they won’t come close to Philly, atl. or Fla.
A few times on this site various simple, affordable plans have been laid out to plug the holes reasonably well, and on paper, make the mets fully competitive.
SOrry that it does require some degree of important guys staying healthy, and a few slugs to rebound (mostly on the pitching staff), but they will still have more talent than most teams.
I do agree though that they need to do a better job with getting players below the “star” level.
trs86
9/3/2009-6:10pm at 6:10 pm (UTC -4)
I completely agree about the sensationalistic part. It would be nice if he even gave the credentials of the sources. I mean it could have been a scout for the A’s AA team.
And to your last point, agreed. They need to get more from guys like Pagan, Sullivan, Misch and Carter instead of signing guys like Cora (love him but…) Tatis, Redding, etc.
greatscott
9/4/2009-12:05am at 12:05 am (UTC -4)
The system is broken if pending free agents Daren Oliver, Octavio Dotel and Billy Wagner are all Type A and Brandon Webb is a Type B. Also worth noting is that if Luis Castillo were a free agent he would be a Type A.
FYI
Teams do not lose draft picks when signing Type B free agents. The teams that lose a Type B free agent receive an extra pick between the 2nd and 3rd round.
The Mets should offer all four players arbitration. If they decline and sign elsewhere the Mets get a draft pick. If they accept the 20% rule does not apply. They can offer any amount they please. Even if the player wins the contract is not guaranteed completely unless the player is on the opening day roster. If the Mets release the player in mid March they only have to pay 1/6 of the contract.
Delgado and Sheffield would not dare go to arbitration.
I think the Mets would like to resign Tatis for his versatility.
Schnieder is the most interesting. I believe some team would give him 1 million to be a back up.
The possibility of four potential picks between the 2nd and 3rd round could really give the farm system some depth.
Should be interesting to see how Omar plays this.