Carlos Beltran…
Beltran: part of the core?
He is a fairly quiet player off the field and honestly, doesn’t celebrate in a Jose Reyes way, yet he is always mentioned in articles and typically seen in the box score (although many defensive plays can’t be shown there).
When he first came to the Mets after the 2004 season, he was given a large deal, and already folks were talking because of the rumors he would have gone to the Yankees for a discount, not a good start. It didn’t help that he then proceeded to have a mediocre first year, in addition to a bad outfield collision that cost him a few games.
Since that time though, he has been pretty much the player we asked for as long as you weren’t delusional and thinking he would put up a season’s worth of numbers like his 2004 Houston Astros postseason run. For those counting that would have put him at somewhere around a .433 batting average with 189 runs batted in and 108 home runs, pretty much video game numbers(obviously I was being sarcastic here, but you should get the point).
In the years following 2005, he has put up extremely solid offensive numbers in addition to winning three straight Gold Glove awards, being voted to three All-Star games and collecting two Silver Sluggers. Most would argue he is the best overall Centerfielder in the game, not too shabby right?
Well, even though his stats look great on paper and his play is amazing most of the time on the field, i’ve read way too many articles over the years that are pretty controversial.
The first are the ones are of late, speaking about about trading Carlos, and some even speculating that he came back this year only so he could audition for a trade.
If the Mets were to trade him, he has a no trade clause, but assuming you get past that, what is the point? The Mets would LIKELY have to take on salary, or take a chance of getting crap in return, or just strength in numbers, no options seems great for them. Yes, I know its possible they get a blue chip prospect, but honestly not likely especially given he JUST came off an injury that cost him 70 games. Assuming they take on salary, they may get a decent prospect, possibly even a current major leaguer who is young and yet to prove himself, again, how does this help? Beltran is not so easy to replace, he has amazing defense, can hit for power, has speed, and seems to be a liked person in the clubhouse. The prospect could very likely not develop into anything, and then were left with possibly paying parts of his salary and a hole in the lineup or in the outfield. You can do your own math if we traded his full salary and ended up with low level or mid level prospects, it could get ugly quick. Even if the Wilpons are in trouble, I don’t think this makes any sense either, it will just drive fans away, so the math isn’t there. The final reason this just makes no sense is that what do you do if the prospect(s) you receive need time to develop or just plain, are different position prospects and not a blue chipper you are willing to wait on? Raise your hand if you are OK with Angel Pagan manning Center Field daily next year since I don’t think anyone is convinced that Fernando Martinez is ready yet. Sure, I like Angel Pagan to be on the team and play as a left fielder from time to time and spell Beltran, but as a starter in place of Beltran? Thats not gonna work. Pagan has been a great story in an otherwise dismal season, but his mental errors on the basepath and in the outfield need to be buried as a spot player or with many other stars in front of him.
Simply put, I feel unless Mr. Beltran has very diminished stats over the next year here, he should be the starting Centerfielder, and I wouldn’t mind signing him past that if he would want to. Who would mind Carlos manning left field if FMart does get his act together for a few more years after 2011? With the pop that he has and barring injury, his speed should still be decent as well.
Next issue I can’t stand, “Carlos is soft”…. ? He played 140 games in 2006 which is the lowest number of his career until now, and he came back early from his injury! I don’t know why people get so annoyed with him saying he is only 88% or something, I find it humorous and I’d rather allow the man to get a day here or there to rest, rather than find himself on the DL for an extended period of time (looking at you Mets medical staff). His small injuries typically have not hurt his production, and if they do, its minor and the defense is still top notch, so why even mention it? He pulls himself out when he has to, he speaks his mind and lets the media and fans know how he is feeling and I for one respect that about him and it makes me pull for him more when he comes to the plate. I honestly hated the idea of him coming off the DL this year, but so far Jerry seems to be babying him, which I do appreciate. I look at this as hopefully seeing flashes of the Beltran we all (or most) know and love and give us some hope to next year and instill confidence in him that he can report to Spring Training in 2010 and be at 96.5% for another run.
The final issue I need to bring up, and I apologize for putting Mets fans through this, but its the 2006 NLCS. He did strike out looking to end the Mets hopes, and believe me, that is a nightmare for me too, but you can’t put that entire season, or that lost series on him, others caused us hell(Heilman and others). Beltran hit .296 in that series and hit three home runs and played his typical top notch defense. Would I have loved for him to swing and change history? Of course, but why keep mentioning it? It was a nasty curve and it just happened, leave the man be!
I would love to hear how everyone else feels about Carlos Beltran, and I thank you for reading my opinion, even though I am sure many will disagree, but such is baseball! I will leave you with the fact that simply having the name Beltran in the order will always give me confidence and I know some don’t count him in it, but I do feel he is a part of the core, and I want the core to stay right here, in the big apple!
76 comments
darknova306
9/14/2009-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
I love Beltran. He helps us in every aspect of the game, and has a great soft-spoken/quiet-leader personality. One of my favorite Mets that I’ve been able to see play. I doubt we could get enough in return to really justify trading him, but I also don’t see us seriously contending before his contract expires (call me a very bitter pessimist), so I guess that it doesn’t really matter to me either way.
trs86
9/14/2009-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
As your always counter, do you not think even lets say worst case Omar gets Vlad and brings back Delgado that line up would be competitive?
darknova306
9/14/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Honestly, no, I don’t. I fully expect them both to miss significant time next year, Vlad is more of a liability in the field with each passing year, and I’d rather see all that money put into a cheaper bat in LF (don’t have a name for you right now, sorry) and the rest in the pitching staff. The rotation is where I think we’ll really be hurting next year.
trs86
9/14/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
I understand and I don’t want Vlad either. But I can’t say we would not be competitive with them in the lineup.
stickguy
9/14/2009-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
they can easily contend next year, and in 2011 too (and frankly, with very few teams do you have any idea how good or bad they will be 2 years out. way too many variables).
darknova306
9/14/2009-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Omar’s contract extension keeps him here for 3 more years, right? That’s 3 years that I can’t reasonably expect to contend.
trs86
9/14/2009-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
You are right, we have yet to be competitive with Omar here.
darknova306
9/14/2009-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Har har. Sorry, but my faith in Omar has been gone for a while now.
trs86
9/14/2009-4:05pm at 4:05 pm (UTC -4)
If you rephrased it to say win a WS then maybe I would agree with you. I however DO have faith that we will be competitive because besides this year we have been competitive every year and would have been this year.
Kingman 26
9/14/2009-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Fine piece, totally agree, Beltran is a fantastic player who can do everything except hit .350, he is a good hitter, has excellent power, is very fast and is an excellent baserunner, has a very good arm, and is a great fielder overall.
People who call him soft are either ignorant, unreasonable, never played a day of sports, or all of the above.
Beltran should be right back to his 2006–2008 production next year.
Oh, and screw Pedro and his blather. He could have offered himself to the Mets for a bargain, incentive-laden deal after largely stealing about 60% of that $50 million, but he chose not to. He is as full of it as anyone in DC.
trs86
9/14/2009-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
Agreed on both parts Kingman. The only reason people view Beltran as soft is because he does not grit his teeth or run around like an idiot. Also, because of the language difference he would foolishly try and give himself a percentage of how healthy he was.
As for Pedro: Agree completely, he finally had to take an offer much less than what he most likely would have made from the Mets if he had signed the Garcia type offer they most likely gave him. His fault, he just wants to keep the Mets fans as his fans because fan opinion actually drives him.
stickguy
9/14/2009-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
agreed on Pedro. There is that, and don’t forget, he is playing just as much for a good contract for next year too.
JoeR
9/14/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Maybe thats all true but last night I remember him making our 2 best hitters look very foolish. Good for Pedro I guess. Really amazing that on his 130 pitch he was throwing 91!?! Was that real?
metsfan4decades
9/14/2009-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
I agree 100% with every point in this post. Couldn’t have stated it any better.
And I don’t want to see Angel Pagan as a starter anything for this team going in 2010. He’s a fine 4th OF/bench player, period. If he hasn’t developed baseball instincts by now (and his play, other than his bat, indicated just that), I’m afraid he never will.
trs86
9/14/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, however, I think the best thing we could do with Pagan may be to trade him to a team like KC where he could play everyday. Maybe we could get a BP setup man for him? I like him but his worth may be greater than his value to the Mets.
stickguy
9/14/2009-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
I think Pagan is a great option as the 4th OF, BU CF, etc. next year. THere is also a chance enough changes occur that he ends up starting in RF< and if this years production carries over for pagan and frenchy, that might not be a bd thing!
but, if they can get a good piece back, then hell yeah, he is tradeable.
Of course, he will then get a tutor to clue him in on how to play BB, and turn into the next victorino. But, worth a shot.
trs86
9/14/2009-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Why would we replace Frenchy with Pagan? That does not make a lot of sense to me.
To me he is a 4th OF for us that could start in CF for another team. Hell I am sure the Whitesox would have taken him this year.
njstuckintx
9/14/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
That wouldn’t be a half bad idea. Maybe part of that glorious dream of a trade that nets us Fielder or the San Diego Sultan. Seriously, though, a BP arm or something would be good for Pagan. Sell High!
trs86
9/14/2009-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
OK it’s not going to get us a good player in those terms. I was thinking a guy we could use as a setup man or something else needed.
njstuckintx
9/14/2009-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
I knew where you were going with that, but a man can dream…
Knowing Omar’s luck, he’ll land us Ambrioux’s cousin or something like that.
trs86
9/14/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
True, if that guy had not turned out to be a drunk murder he might have been pretty good though.
fongy2
9/14/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Well we did sign Uggie Urbina’s son.
JoeR
9/14/2009-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Cmon really no need to be discussing this…this is a non-issue among any Met fan with some intelligence. He is a wonderful all around player and isnt going anywhere. If this team feels, or i should say the FANS, we need a gritty, scrappy, heart, etc, etc guy it wont start with moving Beltran. Lets talk about how if Pedro was on the Mets and making his 5th start he probably would have been just reaching his 80 pitch allowance by the team lol. Last night had to be the icing on the cake for me. I actually was able to generate a tear in my eye to watch a guy who meant returning respectibility and pride to our organization in 06 to dominating us and watching the Philly fans give him a standing ovation. It was almost like the despair of this franchise coming full circle! Its almost like we are back to 2005 all over again lol Murphy made me almost throw up! Being all emotional last night I wanted him off the team lol. In a year I gave up on about 2 months ago and had not watched a game in over a week it was amazing on a Sunday night watching 2 innings i was heart broken. Only this team can manage that…
trs86
9/14/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
True, but not as big on Pedro myself. He had his time in NY and I pulled for him. But I was actually proud of Omar for actually moving on with Pedro. The old Omar would have given him a 2 year deal. Jerry is actually right on one thing. At the time that Pedro was really an option we had options that based on last year or current results that would have given similar production for free. We still had Niese, Nieve, a bad Redding, Figgy, etc.
JoeR
9/14/2009-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
I agree…I have no problem with not bringing him back. Maybe my tune will be different next year when he stays healthy and goes 18-7!! lol
trs86
9/14/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
Then crap happens. Still not interested. Tired of relying on guys who might be healthy but most likely won’t be.
fongy2
9/14/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Couldn’t disagree more with you Brock on Pedro!
Stealing??How did he steal money? Because he got hurt? By that definition the same Beltran
you just lauded is Jesse James.
I like Beltran BUT something is wrong when you sign a guy to be “the man” AND then you have
to depend on a couple of your own home grown kids AND sign another veteran latin player
whos more out going and more of a leader to take the heat off him.
Plus,I love how quickly MRose passed over 2005 in his thread/story.
That said though,I wouldn’t be looking to deal him HOWEVER,the team might start to look at
him as a different player.Doubtful that he’ll be much of a SB threat anymore.
AND for Gods sake….No extentions!!
trs86
9/14/2009-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
We signed him to be the best CF in the NL. Has he been that?
JoeR
9/14/2009-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
I think DWright’s interview a few weeks ago stating how he was embarassed about being on the DL, etc was the best leadership move, with the most impact on this team going forward. Not saying thats why Beltran came back at all but imo it set the precedent on you better not be slacking and milking any injury on this team going forward.
trs86
9/14/2009-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
Thing is Beltran never wanted to go out to start with.
fongy2
9/14/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Agreed Joe! And yes from 2006 to ’08 Beltran was the best CFer in the game BUT that’s all he was signed for? For 120Mil?? I seriously doubt
The Wilopns or Omar would have said THAT 5 yrs ago!
I got nervous with this guy the first time I saw him lay down a bunt
with men on First and Second and no one out,trying to move them over
for the next guy. Not exactly the mindset of a middle of the order/
RBI man who is your highest paid player.
trs86
9/14/2009-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Come on Fongy, how much more do we expect a guy to be than the BEST at his position and when that position is a position like CF?
And do you honestly think he was only the best CF in the NL is 2006? Take a look at the numbers for 2007, 2008 and what he was on pace for this year. There is not an NL CF even close.
trs86
9/14/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
Here’s an even better way to ask it. Is there a team that has the money that would not pay Beltran that much? Think Yankee’s or Redsox would not pay up for Beltran?
fongy2
9/14/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
And b/t/w part 2…No the Yanks obviously didnt want to pay Beltran b/c if you remember correctly
they turned him down after he offer himself to them
at a discount AFTER verbally agreeing to sign with us.
fongy2
9/14/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Read again!..I said he was the best CFer from ’06-’08.
AND b/t/w he should thank Omar for going out and getting Delgado to take the heat off him after his rotten 2005
season. That way he not only had add’l protection in the
line-up but also from the media.
trs86
9/14/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
You are right he struggled when he first got to NY and then produced what may be the best season ever for an NL CF.
Anyway, agree to disagree. I think the best guy at a position always gets overpaid to some degree. How much does the BEST SS make when he becomes a FA in his prime?
fongy2
9/14/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
You do know that a guy named Willie Mays
was once an NL CFer…Right?!
trs86
9/14/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Yes, and I said what may be. Take a look back at that season and compare it to Willie. Beltran is NO Willie but that season was close.
trs86
9/14/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
And I would think you knew I was refering to modern day but anyway, no Beltran is not Willie Mays. LOL.
Kingman 26
9/14/2009-1:53pm at 1:53 pm (UTC -4)
Pedro gave us an excellent 2005, a pretty good 2006 which concluded by getting hurt when we needed him for the postseason, he missed almost all of 2007 and was horrible when not hurt last year.
Now all of that is fine, the problem is his alleged love for the Mets and their fans, which is utter nonsense, or is only true in Pedro’s own little world.
If he loved us all so much, when we were singing trash like Livan and Redding, when he KNEW he could have come here for a million or two and loads of incentives, he chose not to.
Might have been nice for him to show his love and his appreciation for getting 50 million for one fine year, one so-so year and two nothing years, by coming back and actually EARNING something.
And all of the nonsense about him “revitalizing the franchise” and leading us to sign so many other great players has zero validity.
CaseStreet
9/14/2009-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
true, but you don’t know that didn’t happen.
If ur Pedro, you hold out as long as you can to get the most you can, right.
So let’s say right b4 SP or after the WBC, Pedro says, okay, I’ll take the incentives deal, but by this time the Mets already have Redding, Garcia, etc. Omar could’ve just said thanks but no thanks. (I’m not arguing he should or shouldn’t have.)
My point is, we don’t know what really happened. So you can’t really blame Pedro w/o all the facts.
Kingman 26
9/14/2009-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
Very true….
But do you really think he offered to come back for one or two million?
You of course may be right, but I doubt this happened.
I just think he is really full of himself these days, and his act is a bit disingenuous in my humble opinion.
Pedro, like most major league players these days, loves himself and money first, the game second, and the fans third.
CaseStreet
9/14/2009-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t see why he would put up an act. What’s the benefit? Monetary or otherwise.
Pedro’s never been that kind of guy, a kiss ass.
I don’t blame him for wanting his money. Like you said, most MLB players are like that.
Now that I think of it, we never heard of Omar putting in an offer, just that he visited. For all we know, there never was any contract discussion.
Kingman 26
9/14/2009-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
Again, just my opinion, which may in fact be very wrong here.
But I do remember Pedro talking about 4 or 5 million for this year back in the spring. When he said this, I never remember hearing him talk about a discount for the Mets, or saying he offered them a discount.
CaseStreet
9/14/2009-3:23pm at 3:23 pm (UTC -4)
I remember that and I never heard of a home team discount.
My point was just to say we don’t know what happened, if Pedro offered a discount or even if the Mets approached him.
So, I was really responding to this:
“If he loved us all so much, when we were singing trash like Livan and Redding, when he KNEW he could have come here for a million or two and loads of incentives, he chose not to.”
Kingman 26
9/14/2009-4:11pm at 4:11 pm (UTC -4)
Gotcha Case….
trs86
9/14/2009-4:07pm at 4:07 pm (UTC -4)
I disagree, Pedro is always very kiss ass to his fans because it is so important to him that they love him. He does not like being the vilan.
darknova306
9/15/2009-5:55am at 5:55 am (UTC -4)
Which makes being in Philly ironic. Wait till they turn on you, Pedro…
trs86
9/15/2009-7:29am at 7:29 am (UTC -4)
That’s what makes this so interesting. I think Pedro knows this and that is why he is still kissing up to Mets fans because he knows how loyal we are.
stickguy
9/14/2009-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
Beltran? 1st, I am happy to see him back and functional. 1 less thing to worry about all off season. And no, he didn’t do it to audition for a trade. MHO of course.
Wha tis Beltran? the overall best player on the Mets. And people want to trade that?
This years injury really was a fluke, but at least it isn’t something that flares up again in the future. And maybe a 1/2 season of rest helped some of his other aches and pains!
I think he will be fine for another 2 years, but I say No to extending him. Certainly not until after the 2011 season. I don’t know as if his knees will still be up to the task when he is 35+. at minimum, he might have to move to a corner spot.
better to let him finish the contract, and treat him like a year to year guy by offering arbitration if he is still playing at a decent level. So you either get 1 more year, or some picks.
And hopefuly by 2012, one of the young guns (Kirk N, F Mart, or someone else) has stepped up to grab a starting job.
Even after all that, I would trade him (same way as I conceptually would trade Reyes), but the package would have to be overwhelming, and not just AA guys with promise. So, given his age, contract, and coming off injury, I don’t see this big package materializing, so expect to see the core around for 2 more years.
ANd yes Darknova, I expect them to contend for the WS both of them!
darknova306
9/14/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Expect whatever you like.
My question on Beltran is this: is his bone bruise completely healed yet? I believe it’s not, which is why I wanted him nowhere near the field again this season. It would be pretty easy for him to make the bruise worse, like he’s already done once this year by playing on it, and I don’t want this lingering well into January or February or beyond. As long as they keep giving him days off, I guess it’s not that bad, but I’ll still worry until the final game is over for the year.
stickguy
9/14/2009-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know what is left of th ebruise, but for all the grief the Mets have gotten about medical issues, I doubt they would let him play if there was any cahnce of risking next season.
My daughter had one, and after it got to a certain pint, she had to rehab it (before it was totally gone).
He seems to be getting plenty of rest, and it doesn’t seem to be bothering him (he looks to be running fine). So I will take the optomists view that he isn’t risking his career, and that 4 months in the off season to rest and rehab should have him 100% by ST.
If not, then you will have something else to rail against Omar for.
metsfan4decades
9/14/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
I commented on post game thread last night about Bobby O’s evaluation of this team and fundementals on the post game show after the second game. He was extremely vocal about the sloppy fundies throughout the whole season. Said they’d better be drilling that non stop come ST.
Apparently, other’s have noticed it. Mike Silva on his blog writes:
‘Bobby Ojeda’s indictment of the Mets preparation in spring training is a direct reflection on the coaching staff. Omar Minaya, surprisingly, appears to be safe. This type of story make you wonder if Jerry Manuel should be coming back. If the team continues to roll over to the competition during the last 3 weeks you have to seriously consider a change. What makes management think this type of attitude will change? I am surprised and disappointed at Manuel and his staff.’
Oh, and this gem on his blog – which I heard last night as well:
‘David Wright is rooting for Pedro Martinez and the Phillies in the playoffs.’
stickguy
9/14/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
DW obviously likes Pedro, so why shouldn’t he root for his friend, and the team from his won division? As long as he isn’t trying to help them get there, or rooting for them next year!
Like I said elsewhere, Omar can stay in the FO, whtehr in the same or a new role, and it is not that big of a deal, from the standpoint of dealing with it later on or next year. The “committee” will keep him in check, and hopefully Ricco or whoever will have a bigger say (since he is the likely heir apparent).
But, they need to clear out the entire coaching staff + manager before next ST. That is the only way to get a fresh feeling around the team on the field, and hopefully a new attitude and some “fundis”.
For the most part, unless they hold a press conference like Omar did, no one hears of or thinks about the GM on most teams (maybe around the trade deadline). By 4/1, he should be done and faded into the woodwork.
So, they could make Omar disappear next 7/1 and it won’t cause much of a stir to the team.
But, if you start the season (and do ST) with the current regime, and the team starts out sloppy, it will be way more disruptive to gut the staff mid season.
Plus, you lose all the ST prep time the new regime could have had.
Warthen and Hojo and Razor can all go. Bye.
CaseStreet
9/14/2009-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Beltran’s the man who was on his way to an MVP like season.
Why not re-sign the best player at his position? Either way, he still has two years on the contract so there’s really no point in discussing it.
More importantly, where would you bat Beltran assuming Omar is able to bring in a power (20+) LFer?
His best numbers were when he batted 2nd. We’ve seen him bat 3rd, 4th, and 5th for the Mets.
Personally, i’d keep him batting eiter 3rd or 4th with DWright batting behind him.
Kingman 26
9/14/2009-3:22pm at 3:22 pm (UTC -4)
If Jose bats leadoff, I love Wright third and Beltran 4th….if Jose bats 3rd, then Beltran 4th and Wright 5th maybe….but Jose 1st, Nick Johnson 2nd, Holliday 3rd, Beltran 4th and Wright 5th, Frenchy 6th, Santos/Thole 7th, and Slappy 8th is OK too. No Nick? Then Slappy 2nd, Murph 7th, and the catchers 8th…..
No Holliday? Naaah, too early for reality.
CaseStreet
9/14/2009-3:34pm at 3:34 pm (UTC -4)
Lackey or Holliday?
Figgins/Crawford-Johnson-Reyes-Beltran-Wright-Frenchy-C-Castillo
Prob get legit, no risk Lf and 1B for the same price as Holliday.
Kingman 26
9/14/2009-4:12pm at 4:12 pm (UTC -4)
Crawford-Johnson-Reyes-Beltran-Wright is a dream 1–5…..Beltran and Wright have 130 RBI each.
trs86
9/14/2009-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
I think that one you go here, I am saying Figgins because it’s easier to be done than Crawford.
Figgins, Castillo, Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Johnson, Frenchy, Santos. Helps balance the lineup and give Wright some protection at the same time.
trs86
9/14/2009-4:13pm at 4:13 pm (UTC -4)
Is Johnson a no risk 1B?
CaseStreet
9/14/2009-7:33pm at 7:33 pm (UTC -4)
not unless he plans on running into outfielders or having bounced balls break his jaw. I think he’s been healthy all year. So, I’d say he isn’t a health risk.
trs86
9/14/2009-7:56pm at 7:56 pm (UTC -4)
He’s only played 140 games once in his life and will not get there again this year.
CaseStreet
9/14/2009-10:39pm at 10:39 pm (UTC -4)
yeah, but that was bc Nats had Dmitri Young. Johnson had back issues in 04 but not since. Otherwise, he’s had freak accidents.
Breaking a femur and a cheek bone aren’t things you come back quickly from.
It’s not like he’s consistently had bad knees or hip. I guess I’m saying he’s less an injury risk then a Delgado or Vlad.
trs86
9/15/2009-7:28am at 7:28 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I agree but it seems like some players like Johnson or even Church find a way to get injured a lot. Whether it be from luck, freak or whatever. Guys like Delgado and Vlad we think of them as injury prone but then we look at with the exception of a year here or there play 140 games a year.
Kingman 26
9/14/2009-5:34pm at 5:34 pm (UTC -4)
Lackey or Holliday?
Most likely we are dreaming on either, but I am not sure if Lackey is really worth an insane deal.
Holliday, after what he has done in St. L., may very well be worth it. He could hit 50+ doubles at Citi, and would be unreal in a Holliday-Beltran-Wright middle of the order.
Realistically, I would try to get Crawford, and go Crawford-Slappy-Reyes-Beltran-Wright and we still score a ton if everyone is healthy.
And try to rekindle the supposed basket of Met prospects for Halladay deal….
trs86
9/14/2009-6:43pm at 6:43 pm (UTC -4)
Not a bad point on Halladay, who knows WHO will be available this offseason that Omar or whoever could pull off. I still don’t know if Crawford will be even available and I still think Pena will be. Who knows what direction we go in. I still would LOVE the Figgins and Pena addition that would cost about the same as Holliday.
CaseStreet
9/14/2009-7:34pm at 7:34 pm (UTC -4)
so consensus is trade for Doc, sign figgins and do what w/ 1b?
trs86
9/14/2009-7:58pm at 7:58 pm (UTC -4)
Depends, I still like Figgins, Pena. However, if Omar has to be Omar I am OK with Delgado and Murphy IF Delgado is brought back for no more than 3M and incentives.
Kingman 26
9/14/2009-9:24pm at 9:24 pm (UTC -4)
If everyone is healthy, if we have Beltran and Wright and Francoeur hopefully supplying power, if we have Figgins and Reyes scoring lots of runs, and if we have a 1-2 of Johan and Halladay, and KRod, with all of that, Murph will be just fine as our first baseman.
Keith took a couple of years to develop, as did Utley, as did lots of guys. Murph’s doubles and his very little time above AA ball pre-2009 make me think there may be more to him than what we have seen this year.
I must just say no to any more Delgado, pretty much solely due to the injury history/risk.
As I have blabbered on about, 1-2 punches like Johan-Halladay win titles with a LOT less than Wright, Reyes, Beltran, KRod, etc. around them. See the DBacks with Randy and Schilling, the Mets with Seaver and Koosman, the Dodgers with Koufax and Drysdale, etc.
CaseStreet
9/14/2009-10:32pm at 10:32 pm (UTC -4)
tnx
metsfan4decades
9/14/2009-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
Now that this awful season is almost over….a few are becoming more vocal about this Mets team like Bobby O from last night and now Daryl Strawberry.
Someone writes on another blog citing Bobby’s rant last night:
‘Darryl Strawberry actually spoke at my old high school yesterday, and basically said he and Ojeda don’t even know what to say during the post game shows because they don’t believe these Mets are anything like teams when they used to play. He went on to say he knew they would be in trouble from the first day of spring training, when he realized that half the team was injured and not ready. He stressed how they all decide to wait until january to get surgery and then aren’t ready for spring training.’
Jeeze, who other than Reading, Johan and Maine had off season surgery? And if I remember correctly Johan and Maine had theirs right after the season ended.
I don’t remember any surgery warranted for Delgado, Wright, Beltran or Perez during the off season. Putz had a previously diagnosed condition but if I remember correctly, it didn’t warrant surgery at season start.
As to who might not have been in shape (uh, Perez), that might be another question all together. Heck, I think Castillo showed up 20 lbs lighter and in great shape. Delgado looked fine to me. I can’t imagine Beltran not being ready. Jose showed up a couple of days late but that was b/c of the birth of his child.
What happened during ST? Well, half the team was in the WBC. I guess we can debate until the cows come home if that had anything to do with this team, as a whole, not being ready and the poor fundies throughout the season.
Kingman 26
9/14/2009-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
I have been carping about the team CLEARLY not being ready in spring training since 2008, when there were also injuries all over the place, and WBC or no WBC, many guys again came to camp unprepared this year. It was last year too, not just this year.
As for the fundies issues, folks like Wanny and me have been lambasting Jerry all year.
Murph and Pagan don’t know how to run the damn bases! And we are in September, and have been watching the same garbage fundies all year.
I know some people say it is a wealthy pro athlete’s own job to be in shape and understand fundies, but if they don’t demonstrate this from April to September, whose job is it to fix it? No one’s?
Jerry is a clown and a jokester and a fraud, and truthfully, I hope Murph and the brainless Pagan KEEP doing this, as every play like this makes Jerry’s exit come one day closer.
I hate to quote myself, but this team is a Potemkin Village—a shiny exterior with big-name stars, and the inside of the house is a sham and a shambles—players cannot stay healthy, cannot get healthy, and players do not know how to run the bases.
Keep Omar, hire a top baseball guy to put above him, and fire Jerry, the coaches, and every last person on the medical and training staffs.
And while you are at it, fire some scouts, and try to hire anyone in the Marlins’ scouting department.
Kingman 26
9/14/2009-3:17pm at 3:17 pm (UTC -4)
And would a Davey Johnson team run the bases like this team has, all year long? Church missing a base (when the hell does that EVER happen?) which cost a game, Wright being thrown out on the bases twice in one game, Beltran not sliding, Pagan’s repeated gaffes, Murph’s idiotic play the other day, and I can go on and on.
trs86
9/14/2009-4:11pm at 4:11 pm (UTC -4)
Some I think come from a team that is trying to do too much on their own and trying to be overaggressive. You can’t force aggressiveness it has to come natural, otherwise you end up looking like a foo uhm the Mets.
gipperpdx
9/14/2009-6:12pm at 6:12 pm (UTC -4)
This team has many holes, CF isn’t one of them…we need to focus on surrounding Beltran in that lineup with a bopper to protect him, and lengthen the lineup.
trs86
9/14/2009-6:45pm at 6:45 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, but this is part of a series where we look at all the “filled” spots.
Now IF Beltran was keeping us from acquiring multiple holes or could be traded to fill multiple holes this would be a different discussion, but it is not so…