The next player in the “Make it or break it” series is none other than Daniel Murphy. Talk about a roller coaster of a season this kid has had. Daniel Murphy started the year as the Mets LF and will finish the year as the Mets 1B. Lets take a look at the two halfs of his season in 2009 as well as the reason Daniel broke camp as the Mets STARTING left fielder.
Late 2008
The Mets were in a redemption season, as they ended the previous one making history as the biggest collapse in baseball history. With all the drama surrounding the Mets with a midseason managerial change and several injuries along the way, the Mets promoted Daniel Murphy on August 2nd after they had just placed Marlon Anderson on the DL. In his first at bat, Murphy laced a single against Roy Oswalt. According to Wikipedia, Daniel as of August 9, 2008 was only the 5th Mets rookie to record 10 hits in his first 20 at-bats. Daniel was known for his bat (.290 career avg in the minors) and work ethic and both were on display from day one. Daniel kept a workman’s like approach at the plate and turned in some impressive performances, as evidence by him seeing an average of 4.25 pitches per at bat. Daniel finished out the year in the majors with a .313avg/2 Hr’s/.871 OPS. During a offseason that showcased several outfielders, they chose to stick with their youth and home grown player…mostly because of what he showcased for the last 2 months of the season.
Early 2009/Present
After a busy offseason for the Mets, they were ready to make some noise and Daniel made his presence known from the start. Murphy’s 2 run homerun in the season opener turned out to be all the offense for the Mets and they went on the beat the Reds by the score of 2-1. While offense did not seem to be an issue for Daniel, his defense was a whole other story. Daniel made 3 errors in 27 games in LF. One of his errors ended up costing the Mets a game against the Marlins Josh Johnson as the unearned runs played the difference in the game and handed Mets ace Johan Santana the loss. Daniel had a .950 fielding percentage but did have 1 assist and 1 double play. As a foreshadowing of what was to come, in May the Mets 1b man Carlos Delgado went down with an injury that later resulted in hip surgery that put the big guy out until(at that time) September. Seeing an opportunity to put Daniel Murphy in a situation that he would be more familiar with given his minor league experience at 3b(196 games), the Mets decided to give Murphy a shot at 1b on May 20. Since that time, Murphy at 1b has been an adventure. At times, Daniel would show flashes of brilliance at 1b that would make Keith Hernandez proud but others his inexperience at the position would rear its ugly head. Daniel has committed 10 errors at 1b but his fielding percentage is .987 and has 71 double plays. Daniel is currently batting .261 with 55 Rbi’s and 9 homeruns. Daniel Murphy is the only man other than Luis Castillo from the season opening lineup that has not landed on the DL and Daniel actually played the most games out of all the Mets at 140.
Future
Now if I knew the future I probably would have my own island because I would much rather use this ability to win the lotto several times over as I’m sure most people would. I don’t know what will happen with Murphy but I will present several arguments. Daniel Murphy is only 24 years old and is extremely cheap. The first baseman FA class is very uninspiring as the most appealing names are Nick Johnson (who comes with injury concerns) and Adam Laroche. Murphy plugs a hole the Mets have for several years and if he does not improve, there is always Ike Davis working to make it to the show. However, the Mets are dead last in the MLB when it comes to HR production at 86. Going into the offseason, the Mets will lose their cleanup man Carlos Delgado who spent the majority of the year on the DL. This presents a big problem for a team that has a “pitchers park†and has struggled for power this season. As mentioned by several readers, a trade for Adrian Gonzalez would make the most sense for the Mets given their current predicament. A move such as this will most likely include Daniel Murphy in the mix. Will the Mets live up to the usual stereotype of big market clubs and choose to trade away home grown talent? One other thing that must be taken into consideration is money. The Mets insist they will not cut payroll but there is almost a new report each day from various sources that speaks of the contrary. The balance of money and team needs is a juggling act that may or may not spell the end of Daniel Murphy’s tenure with the Mets but his odds are really split down the middle at 50/50. Would you break the stereotype of big market clubs and stick with youth and a fan favorite or would you sacrifice your home grown player for the greater good. Thing is with Murphy, he brings intangibles that cannot be measured. Murphy is a grinder and works his ass off to be as good as he can be. Yes he is not a lock, but very few 24 year olds with less than a year of major league experience I’m sure are. Murphy is a person with a strong work ethic on a team that has been called into question regarding this attribute. As positive as someone with Murphy’s intangibles can be for this team, he may ultimately be used as a chip to obtain other talent. What do you think? Do you see Daniel Murphy as 2010’s starting 1b man?
105 comments
gategem
9/18/2009-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
I’m hoping that Murphy develops into a solid major league 1st baseman but an objective look does give one reason for pause. Murphy’s ranking versus other 1st baseman with at least 325 plate appearances:
BA 25th
OPB 29th
SLG 27th
RBI 25th
HR 28th
OPS 28th
Murphy has not shown great physical abilities or good baseball instincts. But in his favor he does appear to work hard and is very diligent in his effort to improve himself. But I’m not sure just how much improvement can be expected.
prismo
9/18/2009-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
The only way Murphy should stay at 1B is if the Mets get one of the top-notch left-fielders. Otherwise, 1B is a position that the Mets can upgrade (both offensively and defensively) without breaking the bank. I wouldn’t be opposed to trading Murphy in that scenario. I wonder what happened to his patience of last season…he’s walked FOUR times total in August/September. How brutal is that?
stickguy
9/18/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
well, they put him at clean up on a team desperate for power production. And if he pays any attention to the media (or maybe this blog!) all you see is how they need more power from 1B, and Murphy doesn’t have enough poer to be a 1B.
so, maybe, he is out there hacking on purpose? Trying to jack more balls, and drive in runs, as opposed to to being patient, and just taking walks 9often with no one behind him to drvie him in).
I think you are seeing some of the same at the other corner of the infield, part of the reason for the huge K total.
trs86
9/18/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
Possible, or it’s also possible that the MLB pitchers adjusted to him.
njstuckintx
9/18/2009-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
I like Murphy at first, but I think the short term solution is re-sign Delgado on a 1 yr deal, and look to fill LF and Pitcher positions. Murph has been ok at 1b, so there is your back up 1b (or 3b or OF for that matter) for when Delgado goes down. And it allows flexibility for Ike or a better free agent option for the future.
metsfan4decades
9/18/2009-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
I agree. This would be my presence. Hopefully, we’ve got Ike Davis waiting in the wings so this is just a one year/temp solution.
trs86
9/18/2009-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
At this point I would much rather go with short term solutions in LF and 1B and allow Murphy to become what I think his future is. A utility man. Send him to the minors to work on LF, 3B, 2B, 1B until June. Resign Delgado (unless Johnson will come on a 1 year 6M contract)and get a guy like Byrd, Abreu or even Damon in LF on a short term contract. This allows the Mets to develop a Carter or Fmart for LF and a Davis for 1B.
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
I’d keep Murph to replace Tatis on the bench.
trs86
9/18/2009-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
I would too by June. I just want him to spen all of ST and then 50 games in the minors learning to play other positions.
stickguy
9/18/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
he already knows how to play 1B, 3B and LF, having played all of them as a pro. No, he might not be great, but I don’t think a couple months in the minors is going to make some radical difference.
Now learning 2B, that he could use some time at.
trs86
9/18/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
How long has it been since he played 3B? Even the OF has been a while. If he plays this winter and does the utility thing fine. Otherwise what does it hurt for him to spend 50 in the minors learning?
njstuckintx
9/18/2009-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
I agree. Save the money for Lackey or a 2-fer of the lesser starters. Sheets, Wolf, etc.
trs86
9/18/2009-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Thing is IF you only spend 3-4M on 1B you still have 26M to spend. More than enough to get Lackey, another starter and slightly upgrade LF.
njstuckintx
9/18/2009-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
You sir, have hit the nail on the head. I think this is their best option.
What do you think it would take to get Sheets, as that high risk / high reward type?
Delgado @ 4mil + incentives (or johnson @ 6mil), Lackey @ 14-ish, Abreau (or substitute) for 5ish(?) and Sheets for 3 mil for arguments sake… + 4 for bullpen help (which i prefer young cheap fireballers than the biemal’s(sp?) of the world. That would be my armchair GM for the next year.
trs86
9/18/2009-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Sheets I think will be in Texas regardless. There are other names that could be left out. Myers for example would be a good gamble considering he can go into the pen if needed.
Abreu or the LF sub will most likely cost a little more and I do not think we even need 4M for bullpen help. Go out and find league minimum guys there. We have already spent enough there. There are other Stokes out there. Who knows if Misch, Stoner, Bostick or even Holt later next year can slot in for league minimum.
fongy2
9/18/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Sheets, I think is still recovering from major surgery
and is always hurt. Jeez!, what is it with this love
affair with Ben Sheets???
Mr North Jersey
9/18/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
stickguy
9/18/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
nice idea.
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
Sorry, no Mets in the Papers today.
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
Hell No! Delgado Must Go!
trs86
9/18/2009-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
I dont’ like Delgado and wanted him gone last year. But next year with us desperately needing power and but needing to spend money else where I am changing my mind. IF big IF he will sign for 3-4M with incentives where else could we find that potential production for 1 year at that price?
trs86
9/18/2009-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Example would you rather have Murphy starting at 1B or pay 3-4M to have Murphy and Delgado for 1B? Otherwise I don’t see the Mets signing ANY of the other 1B unless Nick gets locked out.
prismo
9/18/2009-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
I’m with you Case. Delgado must go!
trs86
9/18/2009-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Again I ask if it’s Delgado for 3M or JUST Murphy which one do you take?
fongy2
9/18/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Murphy! AND I’m not great fan of his WHILE being a big Delgado
fan for a long, long time BUT time to move on already!
trs86
9/18/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
But at 3M can’t we just throw Delgado away or give him teh Sheff role on the bench?
Mr North Jersey
9/18/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
I think we 1st must see what Delgado want he may want to be a everyday player and not a bench guy and 3 mil might not be anywhere near what he will hold out for.
fongy2
9/18/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Agreed! Thank you,MNJ! Plus Delgado is the largest presence in that clubhouse and theres no way he
quietly just accepts being Danny Murphy’s caddy.
Especially not when he pretty easily can secure
a DH job if he was willing to work on the cheap.
stickguy
9/18/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
he is the starter until he proves he cant do it (or of course gets hurt). If that happens, you unload him.
Also, I get the vibe that he would rather be an everyday 1B than a DH at this point.
trs86
9/18/2009-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
LOL, I don’t want him to be Murphy’s caddy unless he stinks up the joint. If he is even semi healthy he will be better than Murphy.
And I agree about seeing what he will want. If he is wanting more than 3-4M with incentives then pass.
Mr North Jersey
9/18/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Delgado, is he next year’s Luis Castillo?
trs86
9/18/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Nah, I do not think he is as hated as Castillo was by many last year. Delgado already went through that in 2007. I think we are just all affraid that the injuries might continue and don’t want to depend on him. Now if the Mets said we are going to save money and the only thing we are doing is bringing back Delgado I would be furious. However, if they upgrade LF and the rotation and then still bring back Delgado I am fine.
Mr North Jersey
9/18/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
I was thinking more like can he rebound to have a 2010 season that is way better than many of us expected from him coming into season.
trs86
9/18/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Depends, what do we expect?
I expect that if he gets 450 ABs he will hit
.265, 25-30, 100
Mr North Jersey
9/18/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Wow if you expect that then I’d say he is def next year’s Castillo cause I don’t expect that from him more like I hope that from him.
trs86
9/18/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
What do you expect? Those are very Delgado numbers. Do you think if he gets 450+ AB’s he will be worse?
Mr North Jersey
9/18/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Well I am still wondering what Delgado will show up if he returns to Citi Fields in 2010 will it be the 1st half Delgado of 2008 or the 2nd half Delgado of 2008 the jury is still out.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Even if he slides all the way back to that then he would still produce .250 30+ HR and 100 RBI. As bad as that 1st half was it was .248, 17 HR and 52 RBI. That’s Murphy for a full year.
Mr North Jersey
9/18/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
The 1st and 2nd half Delgado that I am talking about is the
before June 27th doubleheader vs yanks and the one after.
The before June 27 dblheader
after 75 games had
180 ab’s
011 hrs’s
035 rbi’s
after june 27th dblheader
418 ab’s
027 hr’s
080 rbi’s
trs86
9/18/2009-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
OK so strecth even those numbers out to 450 AB’s. Would he produce more than Murphy this year?
fongy2
9/18/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
Yeah but next season would be 2 yrs removed from that with a 37/38 yr old
immobile player whos coming off a serious
imjury and who after being pretty healthly
his wholw career, really has started to break down since he turned 35.
Also, his prior #s were in Shea,not exactly
a hitters park but clearly more of one than Citifield. Its time for a chamge, not just in the field but also the clubhouse.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
That’s 28 HR and 88 RBI based on those numbers over 180 AB’s.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
What does Citi have to do with Mets HR Fongy? We have hit more in Citi than on the road. Besides Delgado looked pretty damn good before the surgery and being LH Citi actually plays to his power.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
And I can’t believe YOU are one of those guys who is big on clubhouse chemistry. Think the Yankee’s collection of mercenaries have chemistry if they were losing?
fongy2
9/18/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
Baseball isn’t just played on the field my friend,
theres been something missing/wrong with the chemistry of this team. As for the yankees,
although it cost a ton guys like Tex and Swisher
are ultimate games who have obviously helped the chemistry there.
Mr North Jersey
9/18/2009-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Let’s not make this a yank met thing guys their story has yet to be written.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
I am only using them as an example of hired hands. The Red Sox championship year they all hated each other. The 1986 Mets hated each other. Chemistry is overrated, this is coming from a coach.
stickguy
9/18/2009-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
I switched positions and now vote for a 1 year, low base + incentives deal for Delgado. If, of course, he will accept it.
I wanted him gone last off season, but the situation was different. He was getting paid quite a bit for 2009, and theoretically, could have brought back something useful. Now, he would come cheap, and they get nothing if he leaves.
ANd at least he had the hip fixed. That was the ticking time bomb.
Like TRS said, if he isn’t too expensive, you cut bait and move on. Keeping Murphy as a super sub, and really, what have you lost?
Get a decent guy for LF (byrd is one name, no to damon, but there are other potions, FA or trade). Or possibly go with a committee based on who earns it (pagan, Carter, etc. I still want Matt Murton brought in too). That wil lbe cheap.
Then, load up the payroll on better pitching. If they think Lackey is for real, and will stay healthy, put the money there, then a 2nd SP that should be cheaper (one of the risk/reward guys). I actually think Myers is the best bet. Harden I like, but he could be too expensive, and too high risk.
Besides, Myers loves the pen, and would be happy to close again if K rod went down, and should be able to handle the putz role if needed.
Get the vet catcher if he will be better than Santos, since I think Thole is palying his way into a job, but I would rather see him paired with a vet to help him out.
castillo
reyes (yes, I want looie leading off if he is here)
wright
beltran
delgado
francouer
LF
C
santana
lackey
myers
pelfrey
maine/ollie/neise/neive/etc.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
No vet catchers out there better than Santos considering the price. Do you not read my post. LOL.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
By the way, I know Damon is a bad word around here but if he would be CHEAP he could be next year’s Abreu. An .861 OPS is nothing to sneeze at. That’s higher than Wright.
stickguy
9/18/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
you think he hits any HRs at Citi instead of the band box across town?
That and the noodle arm get me. Any time you have to put one of your fastest players as the DH, not a good sign.
I actually think he wil lbe back for 1 year on the yankees, but if he gets cut loose and free falls, and takes a low base 1 year deal, it wouldn’t hurt.
I do want a guy out in LF that can play solid D if possible.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
He has actually been very good in the field this year. He has not DHed much. HR? No but that’s not his game anyway. He would rack up plenty of doubles and give an option to break up Wright and Frenchy while only on a 1 year contract.
Reyes, Castillo, Beltran, Delgado, Wright, Damon, Frenchy, Santos is much better than this year. IF Delgado and Damon miss time due to age then you have Pagan and Murphy. Thing is I don’t expect anymore season long injuries.
As for the Yankee’s I expect them to let him walk like Abreu and then go out and get a stud LF. They have left over cash to do it for sure.
Mr North Jersey
9/18/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
I ahve to agree with stick. The idea of having Damon roaming LF is just as scary as putting Murphy out there it scare the shyt out of me. I’d rather have someone out there that knows what they are doing.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Damon has played a very decent LF this year though. You can’t compare him to Murphy. Also don’t forget he has experience at 1B too in the event of an emergency.
I may be wrong but I don’t see many that can hit like him that will come that cheap. I don’t see him getting more than 5M.
fongy2
9/18/2009-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
Come on! Damon can’t throw the ball on the fly
from LF to 3B.
Mr North Jersey
9/18/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
“this year” is correct and I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that since I haven’t followed Damon this season but historically Damon sucks as a fielder and in Citi Fields I see balls dropping in all over the place around him.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
I think with the Mets you can give up some OF defense in LF with Beltran and Frenchy in the other spots. I will sacrifice some defense there for hitting. Damon may not be it but I am not concerned over defense out there as long as they are an OF period. LOL. No more Murphy’s in the OF.
fongy2
9/18/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
And ofcourse hes playing his rear off,
pushin’ that old body, its pay time baby!
trs86
9/18/2009-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
OK Fongy so what about last year when he hit .303 and had a .375 OBP while playing 100+ games in the OF?
fongy2
9/18/2009-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Bottom line, you want to give Damon a multi
yr contract worth tens of Mils in his
mid 30s??
trs86
9/18/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Uh no. Come on Fongy READ.
“I know Damon is a bad word around here but if he would be CHEAP he could be next year’s Abreu”
“He would rack up plenty of doubles and give an option to break up Wright and Frenchy while only on a 1 year contract.”
“I may be wrong but I don’t see many that can hit like him that will come that cheap. I don’t see him getting more than 5M.”
Dang, Fongy could I have said it any more clearly.
The only way I would be interested is if it were Abreu like at 5M or less for 1 year.
fongy2
9/18/2009-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
Bottom line(again)…wait does that even make sense?…Thanks but no thanks to
Delgado and Damon,both of who i like but
we’ve been down that road already.
Delgado will be 38 during next season,has
played in 2700gms incl minors and spent the
1st 7/8 yrs of his career as a Catcher.
Damon will be 36 and has played in 2500gms.
If either were w/o a job when camp started,
ok maybe,but even w/that neither can play
more than 1 position and neither is very
good at that position. I for one love having vets at the end of their career on
the bench for leadership and to give 200/250 ABs but i doubt either of these
guys see themselves in that role.
Again, we can’t go into next season with
??? and guys who are at the end of their careers being counted on to play everyday.
It just doesn’t work.
trs86
9/18/2009-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
Fongy you are killing me today.
Delgado only played 2 games at catcher in his career and came up at age 21. So unless you are counting his career as middle school up? LOL.
And IF the Mets are going to go with Murphy instead, how does that help things?
fongy2
9/18/2009-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
Pls, get your facts straight,Delgado
spent 5 yrs in the minors,from 89-93
Catching over 500 gms.
trs86
9/18/2009-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
“minors and spent the
1st 7/8 yrs of his career as a Catcher.”
Hmmm, math. Math gives me 5 years of partially playing C. Hmmm math, 500 games total, lets see that would be hmm 4 seasons tops.
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
ok, I want Pedro back w/ a Delgado type deal. high risk/reward.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
Not the same. Pedro wanted too much money and had not been healthy for years and missed substantial time. Delgado although always hurting, this was the first year he had missed more than 20 games. Also, we have Murphy and uh Murphy to take his place at 1B. For #5 starter we have Maine, Niese, Nieve, Gee, etc to replace him.
stickguy
9/18/2009-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
actually, over the last couple of years, he had 2 basica problems. Wrist(s) and hip.
The wrists, based on late 2008 and early 2009, seem to be fine now. And the hip has been fixed.
I am actually less worried about his health on a 1 year deal now than I was last off season when they brought him back.
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
and hip surgery won’t affect his power?
trs86
9/18/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
Significantly? Most likely not. Just going by others who have had the same surgery. Also, how much was the pain affecting his power. Again, it’s 3-4 M what if his power is crap? Then we send him packing and we have Murphy again just like we will if we don’t sign him.
I am telling you it will either be Delgado or Murphy. The Mets will not sign Johnson or LaRoche to multiyear contracts.
fongy2
9/18/2009-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
None are his size,age or have played as many gms
as he has. I really like Delgado but theres alot
of wear on those threads.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
There is, so if he sucks he goes to the bench, is traded to the AL to DH or is released. It’s only 3-4M. Again, to me it’s either him or Murphy. I would love to have Johnson, LaRoche, Pena, AGonz, Fielder but none of them are going to happen.
fongy2
9/18/2009-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Its Murphys position.
The thing to do is bring in a veteran
Righty bat whos good in the clubhouse,
defensively on the field and who wont
squawk if he does play for a week.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
I love you Fongy but why the hell is it Murphy’s position? What has he done to earn that position yet? And again, that clubhouse junk. Its very overrated. As long as you win everyone is a good student.
fongy2
9/18/2009-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
Heres the problem with your thinking,
What goes on in the clubhouse greatly
effects what goes on in the field.
As for Murphy, do you really think the
FO who sold you on Murphy being the missing
piece to put us over the top as the LFer
isn’t going to take this opp given his
decent 2nd half,his age and how cheaply
he works to not hand him 1B?
And b/t/w, don’t tell be about the bronx zoo or the mid 70s A’s b/c those A’s teams
loved each other they were just a bunch of
loose,crazy guys AND the Bronx Zoo yankees
were not only more talented than everyone
else BUT also had a bunch of all time gamers who brought it everytime they hit the field.For every one of those examples
you might want to throw out there,I can give you an ’88 Dodgers example or even
the current Phillies group.
trs86
9/18/2009-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Then why did they even bring Delgado back last year considering even then Omar was saying he saw Murphy as a 1B replacement. They never tried to see me that Murphy was the missing link. They tried to sell me that he was worth a shot considering what was on the market and I disagreed then too.
But based on his performance and comments I don’t think 1B is locked up for him at all. Also, based on comments about Delgado, I assume there is a very good chance he returns.
trs86
9/18/2009-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
How many teams do you know that won with little talent and did it because of chemistry. Now how many teams do you know that won inspite of chemsitry. It’s overrated. Give me the team with the most talent and a good motivator for manager any day over a group of guys that love each other.
fongy2
9/18/2009-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
Did you ever take a good look at that ’88
Dodger team? Except for Hershiser and Gibson it looks like a friggin’ expansion team. And Bringing back Delgado for this
season made sense to me BUT look how that worked out! Another yr older coming off a serious injury,having gotten through Murps
first full season AND you want to try Delgado again. Not to mention how commanding his presence is in that clubhouse? This sounds alot like my NY Rangers thinking for yrs w/ Messier.
trs86
9/18/2009-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
So you are more comfortable with what Murphy alone will give us at 1B? If so then we will just disagree. In fact for all we know Murphy may have overachieved with his doubles and HR power.
trs86
9/18/2009-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Did you ever see the 86 Mets, they hated each other’s guts. Or the 2007 Red Sox?
fongy2
9/18/2009-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
No I’m not happy w/the thought of just Murph @ 1B next season but reality is what
it is and I have little doubt that the FO
will attempt to re-tool the easiest,cheapest way and through their eyes I can’t see how they wouldn’t be
confident in murphy.
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
right, for 2010. Pedro on a incentives deal. He’s shown he can pitch. far removed from surgery. and we have all those guys to replace Pedro if he gets injured.
Plus, it wouldn’t block one of our can’t miss SP prospects the following year.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Again, we have guys who I think can produce the same as Pedro over the course of a full year in Maine, Nieve, Niese, Gee etc. We don’t have that for 1B. In other words we have no 1B and plenty of #5 starters.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
I think many on here have said it correctly.
Delgado if cheap buys 3-4M worth of TIME. Time for Murphy to get going, Ike to get better, Fmart to develop….
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
I get ur point. I just think you are putting too much stock into Davis and Delgado.
I don’t want to see Murph as the 1B starter and would be scared to trust Delgado do have a healthy and productive season.
The other options aren’t great, but they at least marginally improve 1B.
Yes, we could save at 1B and use it for Lackey. But, 1) he’d be overpriced and 2) like Bay and Holliday, there’ll be a big market for Lackey.
trs86
9/18/2009-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
I am not puting that much stock in either. I am just chosing to go with Delgado at 3-4M over Murphy with Murphy there in case Delgado does as you expect. I just don’t see the Mets getting one of the other guys that will look for a long term contract.
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
why not long term @ 1B but yes long term @ LF?
trs86
9/18/2009-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
Because the guys that are available for 1B are not worth Longterm contracts and they won’t want to block Davis. You may think that is wrong but that’s the vibe I get.
I think they see Fmart as a guy who could take LF or RF but may have soured on him a little.
Again, I hope I am wrong and they sign Johnson but I am willing to bet they don’t.
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
don’t want to block Davis after 1/2 a season in AA?
how’d they sour on F-Mart? cuz he seriously struggled in 100 PA and got hurt? he’s the best prospect in the system.
so they expect all prospects to have immediate success or they’ll sour on them.
i have no idea what they’d do but I hope they wouldn’t make decisions about the Mets based on what prospects may or may not make it to Queens.
trs86
9/18/2009-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
Again, I am just basing this on comments and feelings. You can dream of Nick on a 2-3 year contract if you like. I just don’t see it.
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
doesn’t have to be Nick, could be someone else as long as it’s not Murph or Delgado.
I hope your feelings are wrong cuz I unlike you won’t be happy w/ either one at 1B next year, even if it meant signing Lackey to a bloated contract.
trs86
9/18/2009-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
I too would much rather have another guy, but if not Nick or LaRoche who gives you the butterflies?
prismo
9/18/2009-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Fangraphs piece on Nick Johnson:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-nick-johnson-quandry
trs86
9/18/2009-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Of course the guys at Fangraphs love Nick Johnson. He is the OBP rules the world poster boy. LOL.
I like Nick, I just think he will look for more years and cash than what the Mets will be looking to hand out.
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
i took it as being sour on Nick.
the guy broke his femur running into someone and broke his cheek bone on a bounced ball.
the last time he had back problems was 2004.
How is that injury prone?
trs86
9/18/2009-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Well that does mean he is injury prone. Sometimes luck makes you injury prone too.
fongy2
9/18/2009-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Wait!, case, Nick Johnson hasn’t been an injury prone player?
Really? Thats news even to him!
trs86
9/18/2009-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, just because it is not his fault does not mean he is not prone to injury.
If I continue to get in car accidents that are not my fault I am still accident prone.
fongy2
9/18/2009-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly!
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
right, cuz having bad knees is the same thing as getting hit in the knees with a bat. great point.
trs86
9/18/2009-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
Nope, but if both happen a lot then you are stil prone. LOL.
fongy2
9/18/2009-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
You’re always at your best Case when stretching to make your
err…case. Nick johnson is a nice player,no doubt,always liked
him BUT guy,hes already had 8(mostly long stints)on the DL,
has missed 2 full seasons do to injury and half of 2 others
as well as aquarter of 2 others with various injuries.
But you keep arguing!
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
thanks what I’m here for, there’s always two sides to an argument.
You of all people should know that, being that u like to argue how Omar is the cause of everything that goes wrong but of nothing that goes right.
CaseStreet
9/18/2009-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
ha, meant to say thanks, that’s what I’m here for.
fongy2
9/18/2009-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
I’ve never said Omar is the cause of
EVERYTHING that goes wrong here.
But let me ask you, if we’d have Won it
all in ’06 wouldn’t he forever have rec’d
credit for putting that team together?
And as the BOSS,doesn’t he rightfully
get blame for the failings of the team
HE BUILT,especially having spent half a
billion dollars doing so since Beltran
was caught looking?