Jon Heyman suggests (half-jokingly) on his twitter that the Mets and Cubs may look into swapping Oliver Perez and Milton Bradley; two under-performing headcases with large contracts.
Bradley’s season ended yesterday, not due to injury, but due to a suspension made by the team because of his recent behavior. The catalyst for this took place Saturday during an interview with the Daily Herald. When asked if he’s enjoyed his first season with the Cubs, Bradley was quoted as saying “Not really, it’s just not a positive environment. I need a stable, healthy, enjoyable environment. There’s too many people everywhere in your face with a microphone asking the same questions repeatedly. Everyone is just bashing you. You go out there and play harder than anybody on the field and never get credit for it. It’s just negativity. And you understand why they haven’t won in 100 years here, because it’s negative. It’s what it is.” Okay, as a Mets fan, that’s HILARIOUS, but imagine if he said something like that about the Mets while playing for the team? The guy’s a nutjob, and couldn’t handle the media and fan pressure in Chicago – how would he handle New York? Bradley, 31, has a very mediocre line of .257/.378/.397 this season, with the batting average and slugging both significantly below his career averages (Milton had a .999 OPS in 2008 – which is fantastic).
Ollie’s scarecrow-complex (if he only had a brain) has affected his play much more than his mouth. In 14 starts this season, Perez racked up a 6.82 earned run average with a 1.92 WHIP before cutting his season short for surgery.
Let’s talk contracts, because they’re very comparable. Oliver Perez is due $12 million in 2010 and $12 million in 2011. Milton Bradley is set to make $9 million in 2009 and $12 million in 2010, however Bradley has incentives that could add up to around $1 million each remaining season. So a straight-up swap would work, salary-wise.
I wouldn’t make this trade. If you look at the numbers, it makes sense, but when you talk about a team with as many recent embarrassments as the Mets, is Milton Bradley really the right player to bring into the mix? He makes Lastings Milledge look like a saint. I’m not ready to deal with another media frenzy just yet, and the Wilpons probably aren’t ready for that either. I could be myopic though, as Ollie’s potentially dead-weight on the team, and Bradley could be a solid left-fielder for the next two seasons.
But what do you guys think? Could this be the first step in creating a winning team in 2010?
123 comments
metro
9/21/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
Interesting idea. First off, I’d be STUNNED if the Mets took a shot on Bradley considering how PR conscious they are. But pretending that the Mets would the biggest problem to me is how injury prone Bradley is having played only 140+ games 1 time in his career (no that is not a misprint). Bradley at 10+ million is a reasonably value IF the guy gave you 150+ games AND wasn’t such a jerk but knowing you will likely only get 120 or so games out of him it’s not a gamble the Mets can reasonably take. I personally don’t think Oliver Perez is going to suddenly bounce back to being a “good pitcher” and I would examine other “salary for salary” deals such as this but Bradley probably isn’t that guy. If the Mets are going to gamble on “jerky” players I would try and buy low on Delmon Young.
trs86
9/21/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I see no need for Bradley. As bad as Perez is, I expect him to be better than his replacements and has potential to be very good. Bradley is a guy that said the fans getting on him in Chicago made him play poorly, good god that’s not a fit for the Mets.
I think for now we are stuck with Ollie and I am actually ok with penciling him in if healthy as the #4/5.
metsfan4decades
9/21/2009-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
I agree with this.
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Prismo said it himself when he asked how Bradley could handle NY.
Combine that with the fact that the guy is usually hurt and believe it or not, I’d rather keep our own nutjob.
trs86
9/21/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
I tend to agree, I really don’t think Perez will be worse next year. He could just as easily revert back to 2007 Ollie and at worst I think if healthy he will be 2008 Ollie. One more year! Then we can dump if quite easily.
njstuckintx
9/21/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
On paper with numbers alone, it’s a great swap. But when you sprinkle in some crazy in there… I’d rather have Ollie who shows nothing and doesn’t blow up a club house than a board game with the ability to go postal at any moment.
stickguy
9/21/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
Perez is still more valuable than Bradley, especially if he finally has his knee fixed, and bothers to spend the off season rehabbing and getting into something passing for shape!
Besides, as MF4D pointed out, Bradley misses a lot of games. At this point, he really should stay as a DH.
so I don’t do this deal. I also think Ollie will rebound and have a more productive year. Maybe not worth his contract, but at least of some value.
and you still don’t trade a 27 YO LHSP for a 31 YO lunatic malcontent oft injured DH to play the OF.
Heck, if they really want Bradley, give them a B level prospect, and have the cubs eat 90% of his salary. Then he becomes like Sheffield.
JoeR
9/21/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Yeah…um…I think I would say no. Next…
dirtysanchez
9/21/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Interesting concept but if bradly couldnt handle chi town, he will be miserable here. Id have to pass on that but it does make me depressed knowing how impossible it seems to move a contract like that of oliver perez. What makes it worse is i dont think anyone on the pitching coach/staff knows how to get through to the guy. He is a #5 starter at best and this contract imo is way worse than the castillo deal. I just hope he bounces back like luis did next year.
Mr North Jersey
9/21/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Like the wanted posters
metro
9/21/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Ollie, Murphy or Evans (or another similar valued “prospect”) and 5-6 million bucks for Gil Meche.
trs86
9/21/2009-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
Royals fans, both of them, would form a mutiny.
I do like the idea of trading for Meche but we would be much more likely to do it with prospects. Ollie would actually hold down the value of Murph or Evans. LOL.
metro
9/21/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Meche is a guy I think we should target assuming his late season injury issue is ok. Lackey will likely cost 18+ million, Bedard would be a terrible fit for a few reasons so the Mets should be looking at guys like Meche. Meche is due 2 years 24 million so his years are nice and short and the money is in line with his value. He obviously had a bad year with a 5.09 era and a 1.56 whip but 2 seasons prior 3.67 era, 3.98 and whip’s of 1.29 and 1.31. Meche also pitches in a major hitters park and his road era this year was a more respectable 4.66. He is the type of pitcher (like a Javier Vazquez whom I wanted the Mets to acquire) that could come to the NL (especially in our park) and be a very good #3 starter.
prismo
9/21/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
Nice metro – you know your stuff.
trs86
9/21/2009-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
I agree but is he alone enough to fix the Mets rotation?
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
Meche would be nice in the 3-4 spot. Wouldn’t feel cozy with him or Pelfrey in the 2 spot.
And I’m not sure why KC would take Perez for Meche — even money and Meche is the more consistent performer. Certainly not just to get Murphy or Evans when they’re loaded with young players in the corners, including Butler, Gordon, Hosmer, Kiuaahe, Teahen, DeJesus and Moustakas.
trs86
9/21/2009-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, it would have to be besides Perez.
Johan, Pelfrey, Meche, Perez, Maine/whatevers would be better but would not be solid enough in my mind.
Mr North Jersey
9/21/2009-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
New blood in the comments section is always great and by the look of things Metro brings a lot to the table. Hot Stove will be fun this year.
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
Meche is not really worth 12 million, and he pitches in KC—since when is that a major hitters park? Don’t think it is….
Another inconsistent headcase who rarely reaches his potential for 12 mil is not what we need at all.
trs86
9/21/2009-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
I think besides this year he has been overall consistent. I would welcome him if the Mets planed on it being Meche AND…..
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
Well, not sure if I agree about the consistency, but if he really has 12 mil coming to him, would we really want to add that much salary for a number 3 starter (at best) when we need a bona fide number 2, a LF, a setup man, etc?
Check out his ERA/WHIP every year other than 2007 and 2008.
And despite what the poster says, Meche has played his entire career in PITCHER’s parks in Sea and KC….
No chance in the world KC takes on Ollie’s contract, so that deal would never happen.
trs86
9/21/2009-4:35pm at 4:35 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed on Ollie’s contract. It would have to be for prospects. Would they take Castillo for Meche though? I am not sure. Do they have a decent 2B?
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
Meche is an unreliable, 31-year old with pretty bad WHIP stats….
Evans for Meche, sure, but no way I trade Ollie or Murph for him. Or send 5 or 6 mil.
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
This post from Heyman is almost too much.
Bradley is hurt and/or suspended every year of his career, and no matter how bad Ollie may be, Omar likes him a lot.
Again, our opinions on here are MAYBE 1% less valuable and realistic than Heyman’s…if that….
prismo
9/21/2009-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
Hey, he’s not wrong – it’s worth discussing, just not worth actually doing.
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
Well, trading Nick Evans for Pujols is worth discussing too…as is reincarnating Gil Hodges for manager next year.
Both of those ideas are about as firmly grounded in reality as this utter silliness.
I completely agree with your saying in the post that you would not do it.
prismo
9/21/2009-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
Oh come on, this isn’t Evans for Pujols! This is two unwanted players with similar contracts being discussed.
Actually, something we haven’t even discussed…this could potentially not get done if only because it would mean Omar admitting the mistake of signing Perez. Omar doesn’t like to admit his mistakes.
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
True about the equal contracts, but the Mets do like and want Ollie, and he has never been an off-field problem.
And I am not criticizing you at all here, but sorry, but I personally think that the idea of bringing in Bradley–with his injury history after what we just saw this year, combined with his complete mental instability and psychosis–is not really much sillier than the idea of Evans for Pujols.
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
Bradley = Moises Alou with a bad attitude.
I’d sooner take Alou back, whose always proven that he could rake when healthy and never cause a stir with behavior.
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Could not agree more.
Bradley is Moises Alou with a bad attitude and much less talent.
trs86
9/21/2009-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. It would only make sense if we had a replacement for Perez AND Bradley was healthy and a model citizen. I would much rather have our trash than someone else’s.
stickguy
9/21/2009-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
the replacing perez part might be the easy piece of it! At least if they get another legit SP in the off season (marquis, lackey, whoever).
Just leaves 1 less guy in the scrum fighting for the 3-7 SP and long relief roles.
trs86
9/21/2009-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
But even then, I expect Perez to be a decent #4/5 next year. So you are then relying on an even lesser group to fill that in. That would put more pressure on Nieve or Niese.
stickguy
9/21/2009-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
If they are talking salary adjustment deals with the Cubs, I would rather roll the dice with Zambrano. Hey, tyr enough of them, and you might get it right eventually!
It does seem that the Cubs need to clear some salary. I know the 3 big bad contracts are Big Z, Bradley and Soriano. The last 2 I want no part of.
Who knows, Hendry is not that bright. Maybe they could buy into the young lefty finally reaching his potential concept?
Who knows, but a Z for Ollie + murphy (just speculating, they do need to replace Derosa still) and Gee? Saves the cubs a lot of money, and gets them some fresh blood.
Maybe those players dont do it, but it could happen without anyone major going back due to $$.
A rotation without Ollie just seems so much better.
santana, zambrano, (pelfrey/maine/neise/neive) could work out quite nicely!
Lackey is going to get almost as much annually but for more years most likely. SO who is worth more?
trs86
9/21/2009-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
I would think we are not getting Zambrano without giving up at least 1 of our top pitching prospects and they would have no need for Perez and the money due. Yes Zambrano’s is bad but someone will take it free and clear without dumping 24M of Perez? Right?
stickguy
9/21/2009-2:12pm at 2:12 pm (UTC -4)
I’m still interested in Harang. COUld be a nice rebound guy to fill the need, if the price is right.
trs86
9/21/2009-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
Harang or Arroyo are both interesting names, however does either by themselves fix the rotation?
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-3:16pm at 3:16 pm (UTC -4)
No. But Harang at his best — assuming his arm is structurally sound (which I wouldn’t be quick to do) — would help out a great bit.
trs86
9/21/2009-3:21pm at 3:21 pm (UTC -4)
Perez at his best would help out a great bit too. Question is, is it worth the cost in money and players it would take to get him?
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-3:30pm at 3:30 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know what the money and players are. You can ask that question about every potential transaction.
Surely, you wouldn’t object to acquiring another pitcher because of the presence of Perez???
All I’m saying is that a healthy Harang gives you innings, Ks and good efforts.
trs86
9/21/2009-3:36pm at 3:36 pm (UTC -4)
I am saying that at :$12.5M, 11:$12.75M ($2M buyout) and even a low level prospect can we afford to have 24M+ tied up in two potentially under performing pitchers?
Harang has been bad for 2 years and even though I hate wins and losses as a stat is 12-31 in those two years with an ERA of around 4.50+ and a WHIP of 1.40+
With a limited budget, unless the Reds are taking a salary from us or pitching in a lot of cash can we afford for Harang to be one of our big ticket items?
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
Even his 4.50 WHIP and 1.40 ERA should result in a better record than that. Those are league average numbers. Look at Mike Pelfrey.
But Harang is clearly not healthy given his performance/innings decline.
trs86
9/21/2009-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. I like I said am not a big fan of wins and losses. However, it appears he is not putting them into position to win much either way.
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-3:33pm at 3:33 pm (UTC -4)
Well, the money is significant: 10:$12.5M, 11:$12.75M ($2M buyout)
But if we’ll pay Ollie that… we should pay Harang that…
trs86
9/21/2009-3:38pm at 3:38 pm (UTC -4)
If Ollie were not already here I could agree. If you could dump Ollie for no cash lost or we did not have a budget I could agree.
stickguy
9/21/2009-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
Have to keep in mind that any trade for an overpaid guy like harang (or Ollie or about 50 other guys!) is going to involve eating salary, or absorbing another heavy contract.
so maybe Harang ends up getting traded with the Reds eating 3 mil/year, or something along those lines. Or they take back someone with a decent contract of their own (like Castillo, but not him).
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
The Mets don’t really have salaries to trade. The Mets salary structure is top heavy with Beltran, Santana and K-Rod getting about half the team’s annual salary.
Castillo is the only expensive guy you could trade (besides the above Wright and Reyes make money but you’re not trading them for salary purposes). And no one is taking Ollie P.
trs86
9/21/2009-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed thus I don’t see a fit there. I don’t think MLB would even allow the Reds to send enough cash to make it worth it nor would the Reds in turn want to send enough cash just to get rid of him.
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-3:38pm at 3:38 pm (UTC -4)
All that said Harang’s last 2 seasons don’t give much reason to expect he’s healthy.
trs86
9/21/2009-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, I think without Perez you can gamble on a guy like that. With Perez tying up so much money you can’t.
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah and to take it a step further, for that kind of money (even without Perez) you should get a guy whom you at least have a reason to think can give you 200 decent innings.
If the Mets want to take fliers on high-risk high-reward guys they can spend a lot less on Ben Sheets or probably even Rich Harden.
trs86
9/21/2009-3:47pm at 3:47 pm (UTC -4)
Harden is a dream of mine but he is asking for 4/5 years at 12 a year. He can’t be serious. I think the Mets should make a good run at Lackey and then if they can’t get him wait until the end and try and get two leftovers. I still think how much better shape we would have been in this year and next if we had used that strategy last year with Lowe. We would have had Garland and Wolf who have had decent years and had no commitment really for next year. And no Ollie….
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-3:51pm at 3:51 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with your approach and with your thoughts on Harden.
I hope for his sake that his agents are just trying to set the bar high but have realistic expectations. Otherwise, Harden will be this year’s Dunn, Abreu or Wolf — taking a short-term make-good contract.
stickguy
9/21/2009-3:41pm at 3:41 pm (UTC -4)
I seem to recall he looked a lot better when he came back toward the end of the season. But yeah, you have to discount the cost to account for potential damaged goods.
trs86
9/21/2009-3:01pm at 3:01 pm (UTC -4)
For all of you who was pleading and cursing Omar for not bringing in Mr. Supergrit Odog Hudson.
Talking to Jim Peltz of the L.A. Times, Dodgers manager Joe Torre would not commit to Ronnie Belliard over Orlando Hudson as the team’s starting second baseman. Belliard has started at second base in eight of the team’s 18 games this month, as well as a few times at third.
Hudson stands to lose money as a bench player, though he was gracious in comments made to Peltz. The way his contract is set up, Hudson is currently earning $10,000 per plate appearance up until his 632nd. He’s already earned $7.63MM on the season, despite a base salary of $3.38MM.
The guy will make 8M this year and is being benched in favor of friggin Ronnie Belliard. Omar has done a lot of dumb things, at least signing Odog and taking a hit on Castillo’s salary was not one of them.
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
Amen to all of that!!
Slappy is killing ODog at OBP and has more runs scored in about 80 less PA.
trs86
9/21/2009-3:12pm at 3:12 pm (UTC -4)
Playing for a crap offense.
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-3:18pm at 3:18 pm (UTC -4)
No one hobbles around the bases any better than Luis.
trs86
9/21/2009-3:22pm at 3:22 pm (UTC -4)
To be fair, we all know why he hobbles right?
He has always hobbled. He has one leg significantly shorter than another.
Mr North Jersey
9/21/2009-3:26pm at 3:26 pm (UTC -4)
Somehow I cant see how Minaya should get credit for being told the only way to get Odog is if he can get rid of Castillo’s salary and then watch him fail at getting rid of castillo’s salary so then be put in a sitution where heis unable to sign ODog.
I am one to give Minaya credit where credit is due but i don’t feel this is one of those occasions.
trs86
9/21/2009-3:29pm at 3:29 pm (UTC -4)
I am sure he could have pressed for eating more of Castillo’s contract and signing Hudson. After all according to MANY fans he was signed for ONLY 3M so you would have gotten Hudson for 9M and that’s a bargain. LOL>
stickguy
9/21/2009-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
Hudson seemed like a good deal at 3 mill, but man, he isn’t worth 8mill+.
Maybe Luis isn’t that overpaid after all!
trs86
9/21/2009-3:44pm at 3:44 pm (UTC -4)
That was just it and no one seemed to listen or notice. He as always going to make 8M this year unless he was injured. It was never a bargain at all.
Mr North Jersey
9/21/2009-3:49pm at 3:49 pm (UTC -4)
just so there is no doubt of my position I was one of those people that wanted Hudson here not because he was cheap just because I felt he was way better than Castillo and was willing to dump Castillo for a bag of balls if it meant getting rid of him.
So now there is no doubt of my position. For what it’s worth LoL
trs86
9/21/2009-4:00pm at 4:00 pm (UTC -4)
I know you were. Problem was that we would have had to pay 12M to dump Castillo for those bag of balls. LOL. Then we would have had to pay Odog 8.5M and would have spend 20+M on one year of Hudson. Shew.
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-3:46pm at 3:46 pm (UTC -4)
And those who couldn’t comprehend the nature of his endorsements were so annoying when he began the season on fire.
What a surprise that he leveled off, eh?
trs86
9/21/2009-3:49pm at 3:49 pm (UTC -4)
You mean back to his career averages, for a 30+ year old? Who could have predicted. Again, the guy is benched for Ronnie Belliard. This discussion is over. LOL>
stickguy
9/21/2009-3:58pm at 3:58 pm (UTC -4)
actually, you make one of my points. That is, if the mets can find a taker for Castillo off his “career year”, in a deal that makes sense, don’t worry about having a replacement.
there are always plenty of journeymen and non-big names like Belliard around to get in a pinch, until you can develop someone from the system.
trs86
9/21/2009-4:02pm at 4:02 pm (UTC -4)
True, but again I still don’t see anyone taking Castillo unless we take on another bad contract or we pay lots of cash. Even after a good year.
whataputz
9/21/2009-4:09pm at 4:09 pm (UTC -4)
I know if you can dump him, dump him, but if Castillo can play like this next year he is very valuable. Obviously i don’t expect him to, but he’s an incredibly patient hitter, that frustrates pitchers, and can still run the bases to some extent. He’s the ideal #2 hitter, especially with Reyes.
Mr North Jersey
9/21/2009-4:12pm at 4:12 pm (UTC -4)
Castillo has had an impressive season but stick is right that for 12 million Minaya could of done a lot better than him at 2nd for millions less that could of been put to better use in the now budget conscience era of the ny mets.
While Hudson is struggling right now remember that don’t write him off just yet as Hudson’s book is not yet written on this season till we see what he brings to the table come postseason. He may or may not be the fiery spark-plug that he has been said to be in past seasons.
trs86
9/21/2009-4:12pm at 4:12 pm (UTC -4)
Actually to me he is much better suited for the lead off spot. That is where a guy with decent speed and a .400 OBP should be.
trs86
9/21/2009-4:14pm at 4:14 pm (UTC -4)
Considering it will be his first playoff appearance right?
But anyway, still not worth 8.5M to the Mets.
Mr North Jersey
9/21/2009-5:09pm at 5:09 pm (UTC -4)
be that as it may it still doesn’t take away from the fact that going into 2009 no one could predict that castillo would have the season he has had and therefore the mets were lucky to hold on to him and his bloated contract of 12 million a year.
stickguy
9/21/2009-3:34pm at 3:34 pm (UTC -4)
This discussion points out what should be a major series of threads for the off season: what to do with the SP.
I am getting a strong vibe that the Mannyiacs will merge with the Lowe-dites and will be foaming at the mouth to get Lackey regardless of cost.
somehow, I don’t see the MEts blowing another 16+ on a 2nd SP. But, who knows.
It wil lbe interesting to see what they can come up with cheaper, balanicing off prospects required to pull off a trade.
and will 1 new arm be enough? Is 1-#2 a better idea than 2-#3s for roughly the same money?
I am betting on 1 new arm that qualifies as a legit middle-upper rotation guy, likely with some question marks, that will cause an uproar of debate as to whether he is really a 3 pretending to be a 2! The rest of the rotation will be from the current crop of guys and maybe a few more reclaimation projects.
trs86
9/21/2009-3:39pm at 3:39 pm (UTC -4)
I am guessing that as well Stick. Omar will get a 3-4 pitcher, like Meche, and then a hitter like Vlad and parade through the streets.
stickguy
9/21/2009-3:46pm at 3:46 pm (UTC -4)
I already told you that if Omar signs Vlad, you are going to have to find someone else to replace my 300 posts/week, since I will boycott!
QUite likely though that the off season wil lconsist of 1 SP, 1 bat, maybe a new bench guy and a pen arm or 2, and away we go.
But, if he gets the right couple of guys, and the team stays generally healthy (with a few guys finally having a hitting otential year), that could be plenty.
Meche and Vlad are not those guys however.
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-3:48pm at 3:48 pm (UTC -4)
Vlad will come in handy when we need a DH. But until then, Omar better remind his friends at the bagel store that Vladdy can’t play the field anymore.
stickguy
9/21/2009-3:48pm at 3:48 pm (UTC -4)
I might rather have bradley than Vlad at this oint!
you want a go for it all before the kids arrive year? Trade Ollie for bradley, blow the budget on lackey, and re-up delgado for a hudson like contract (low base + easy incentives for 1 year).
might work, or go down in flames. But it won’t be boring!
trs86
9/21/2009-3:55pm at 3:55 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t want Vlad but he is much better than Milton and should be cheaper too. But regardless, hopefully he listens to us.
Think how different the team would have been if I alone were the GM. Not to mention us as a group.
I would have Kendry Morales, Rivera, Wolf, Garland, and no Perez!
stickguy
9/21/2009-4:02pm at 4:02 pm (UTC -4)
well, the GM of the Angels would have had to agree on a couple of those guys…
I was big on the trading for Vazquez or marquis (especially when he was being given away) and offering arb to ollie to limit the damage to 1 year if you didnt get the picks. THey didn’t listen to me either.
Maybe Jeffy will realize that he doesn’t need to hire a baseball mind to come up with the plan. He can get the ideas here for free, then just have omar or Ricco execute them!
trs86
9/21/2009-4:10pm at 4:10 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. I wanted Marquis too. I still think the angels would have liked to have had Delgado. They are not psychic enough to know Kendry was going to do this, unlike me.
stickguy
9/21/2009-3:55pm at 3:55 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with TRS’ concept from up above. If there is a SP (or 2 or 3) that you think are really a cut above (like when Johan showed up), then make the big push. But, if it doesn’t work out, don’t trun around and overpay for a lower tier guy, just because they are the next closest thing (that is how you end up with SIlva or Ollie for 12mill/year).
better off going with the solid but not sexy guys (wolf, garland (yuck), even marquis or millwood) for a lot less money and shorter commitment. Or (and?), go with your in house options if they project to be just as good. At least they will be cheaper!
trs86
9/21/2009-3:57pm at 3:57 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, Omar listened to the media last year and got forced into Perez. Everyone saying how Omar HAD to have an upper contract pitcher and how after Lowe Perez was the next best pitcher and he had to sign him. Think for yourself. You had to know that Perez was not consistent enough for the Mets. Let another team try and fix him. But nope…
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-4:06pm at 4:06 pm (UTC -4)
Of course you agree… he was agreeing with you in the first place!!
Anyway, if Lackey can not be had, the next best strategy might be to sign whomever among the second tier will sign for one year. None of them seem like great ideas for more than one year.
whataputz
9/21/2009-4:13pm at 4:13 pm (UTC -4)
I really don’t see Lackey signing here. Idk, but the guy just has red Sox or Yankees written all over him. Especially if the Yanks get knocked off in the playoffs, they’re going to be looking for a #5 pitcher.
I know it’s a broad, unfair statement, but Omar’s gonna have to get creative here. Maybe go the chapman route, or try to come up with an unexpected trade, but this FA class just doesn’t do it for me. I wouldn’t touch Harden with a ten foot pole…that’s not intended to sound dirty lol.
trs86
9/21/2009-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
I was agreeing to another point that I had not made but anyway Wanny, I now agree to your point that was criticizing the agreeing to the agreement.
whataputz
9/21/2009-4:05pm at 4:05 pm (UTC -4)
Even from just a pure player standpoint, assuming two outfield spots are already vacated next season, I wouldn’t even want him. The Mets need a bonafide slugger. Not a prject. Enough of these maybe’s, somedays, if’s and’s and but’s. Pure, unquestionable slugger. That’s before I even as much as dive into his terrible attitude, and pure douchbaggery.
At the very least Ollie is still a young lefty player that at some point showed promise. Bradley is a friggin nutjob.
trs86
9/21/2009-4:15pm at 4:15 pm (UTC -4)
Depends on what they do with pitching. If they get Lackey and get another decent pitcher I can live with guys like Ankiel and Branyan for another year.
stickguy
9/21/2009-4:19pm at 4:19 pm (UTC -4)
ankiel is intriguing. He might be a strong rebound candidate if his lingering injury issues (groin I think, and something else) clear up.
ankiel and frenchy sure gives you some strong arms in the OF corners!
whataputz
9/21/2009-4:22pm at 4:22 pm (UTC -4)
Even if you (in general, not specifically you TR) don’t like Delgado, he was still a big power bat that did drive in runs. With Delgado gone, they’re going to need somebody that can drive in runs, even if it isn’t with the long ball (though I’d prefer a HR hitter. Even though Francour has been good, I still don’t think they can pin too much hope on him for next year.
trs86
9/21/2009-4:25pm at 4:25 pm (UTC -4)
Under plan 125, I have the Mets getting Ankiel and bringing back Delgado as well as getting a strong bench player to play 1B and LF and then spending most money on pitching.
stickguy
9/21/2009-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
I read through the comments over at MLBTR about the bradley for Ollie rumor.
It seemed to be fairly even, in that both sides (met fans and cub fans) both wanted to get rid of their guy, but neither one wanted to take the other guy!
What did surprise me though is that there were a number of cub fans that actually wanted to pick up Slappy McLimpington. Cubs need a 2B and a lead off hitter (although if they can find a SS, they could slide their SS over).
Slappy is actually a good fit for what they need.
theoretically, they could trade Zambrano for slappy, a few mill, and Lackey (since the differnece in salaries would pay for lackey) and have the same payroll as this year, but an extra player (slappy) and probably a prospect or 2.
blows the mets budget a bit, but if they replace slappy with a cheap guy like A Hern, probably about the same as just signing lackey and keeping luis.
all depends on how bad you want to move slappy, and if you think Zambrano wil lbe better for the next 3 years than lackey!
trs86
9/21/2009-4:29pm at 4:29 pm (UTC -4)
I for one do NOT think Zamby will be better than Lackey. Nor do I think Zambrano and Ahern instead of Lackey and Castillo would be better.
Zambrano is still interesting IF we can’t get Lackey. There are others to consider for 2B if for some reason the Cubs were to consider a Castillo for Zamby trade. I think their fans would revolt unless we included a top prospect.
However, what we may be missing is just the chance to trade Castillo without sending too much cash and get a prospect back? Example could we get Hoffpauir back who has struggled this year and is 29 years old but could slot in well on the bench to play LF and 1B?
stickguy
9/21/2009-5:21pm at 5:21 pm (UTC -4)
Just forking over $$ for lackey, if the contract doesn’t get out of hand, is certainly simpler. ANd I would be happy to trade Castillo for a useful part, in order to free up some $$ for pitching (or LF), and also to get rid of him before he blows up. I just don’t see this season happening again…
bring in a stop gap 2B for 1 year, and opefully one of the prospects will be ready by 2011 (havens if he stays healthy, even Tejada).
I am going on a big blend in the next class of home grown talent.
stickguy
9/21/2009-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
If slappy is back next year, he should be in the lead off spot. Hit reyes behind him if you don’t want to move him down further.
heck, right now Luis should be hitting first instead of Pagan when they are both playing.
whataputz
9/21/2009-4:28pm at 4:28 pm (UTC -4)
if you don’t lead off reyes you are taking away alot of his game. While he still needs to work on getting on base, and that essentially is what lead-off hitting is all about, when the guy gets on to lead off the game, it is such a huge advantage. Theres a reason why he scores so many runs. That’s 3 outs a pitcher has to get while worrying about Reyes on base. Sure I see the case for Castillo batting lead-off, but as a number two hitter he is very valuable. He’s takes a ton of pitches, probably more than anyone else in the game! He’s a great bunter, and yes it matters because no matter how much you hate it, Jerry gets sexually aroused to the sacrifice bunt.
trs86
9/21/2009-4:32pm at 4:32 pm (UTC -4)
Why is that taking away ANY of his game? He does not get on base as much as Castillo. He scores so many runs because people drive him in. Besides who knows how much Reyes will even run next year. And to your point on Castillo being a valuable #2 hitter? How with his lack of power? To me he only fits in two places, leadoff and #8 and I don’t really want a .400 OBP guy batting 8th. To me if Castillo can’t lead off he is a waste. Think about how much more Reyes could do down in the order than just be a guy who gets on and steals some bases. And please no more bunting. In fact that is a great reason NOT to have Castillo there. LOL.
wannybackstra
9/21/2009-4:53pm at 4:53 pm (UTC -4)
Castillo bunting with a runner on 2nd and no one out freaking kills me — especially when he bats lefthanded and could advance the runner with a ground ball… that has a chance to also be a hit.
stickguy
9/21/2009-5:18pm at 5:18 pm (UTC -4)
I am with you on this one brother.
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-5:31pm at 5:31 pm (UTC -4)
You are SO right….and if you check around, studies have been done that show that in this situation, and with a man on first and no outs, teams have slightly better chances of scoring when they DO NOT bunt.
First inning, giving up an out, when Pagan will score from second on almost ANY basehit out of the infield anyway. Jerry is such a clown, such a fraud, and SOOOO useless. Top of the first, and you give up an out and play for a sac fly and one run.
Bunting with a man on 2nd in the 1st inning, no outs, and a non pitcher up is idiotic and ridiculous, just like the way Martty Noble still thinks it is 1975 and the best way to statistically judge a pitcher is by wins. Wake the hell up and read what has been written about baseball for the last 30 years.
INSANE and ridiculous baseball.
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-5:35pm at 5:35 pm (UTC -4)
OK, bottom of the first….I did not even see the game, and when I read about it, it drove me nuts.
The bunting MUST STOP!!
And LOL Whataputz on this one!!:
“Jerry gets sexually aroused to the sacrifice bunt.”
Mrs. Jerry probably acts out bunting drills before they get into bed….
trs86
9/21/2009-4:37pm at 4:37 pm (UTC -4)
I just hate that we are typecasting a guy that could be great into one spot. Wright, Beltran, Delgado, Frenchy, etc all have different spots they could hit and succeed in but Reyes only has one?
whataputz
9/21/2009-4:54pm at 4:54 pm (UTC -4)
I just think that his greatest value is at the lead-off spot. Your lead-off guy gets the most at-bats over the coarse of a season and I want Reyes getting as many chances to get on base as possible. I want the best hitters all assembled behind Reyes. If you have Reyes batting 3rd, his power isn;t good enough, and the batters behind him are not going to be as patient. He doesn’t have the plate discipline to bat second. I don’t want him batting 5th or 6th because who will drive him in? If I had a choice he’s most effective batting lead-off.
stickguy
9/21/2009-5:17pm at 5:17 pm (UTC -4)
You can’t look at reyes hitting 2nd in a vacuum. You have to consider Castillo too.
and I agree with the others (I should, since I started this line of thought!) that castillo is better in front of Reyes.
Castillo really only has 1 plus. He gets on base. Reyes, however, can drive the ball too (and does not get on base as much as Castillo).
so, it makes a ton of sense for luis to lead off with a walk, and reyes can do exactly the same as if he was leading off, except if he drives a double, it is man on 2nd, run in.
If reyes leads off with the double, luis bunts him over, and you have 1 out, man on 3rd, no runs in.
hitting 2nd should free up Reyes to become a more complete hitter, and to take advantage of his power. Plus, he will still be on base for all th epower hitters in the middle of the order.
and I can’t stand the osession with having castillo sacrifice!
Mr North Jersey
9/21/2009-5:21pm at 5:21 pm (UTC -4)
Right now what should be considered is where is Reyes best suited to help this team in 2010?
If he can run then Reyes best years has been in the lead-off spot. I see no reason to take him away from where he has had his best years. No need to reinvent the wheel or if it ain’t broke don’t fix it whatever works for you.
If he can not run then the team will have to re-evaluate based on the talent they do have coming into 2010 and adjust accordingly. maybe dropping him down in the lineup maybe not.
I like the idea of Reyes being more of rbi type guy down in the order but I also like the idea if having guys that can take an extra base with speed at the top of an order.
stickguy
9/21/2009-5:25pm at 5:25 pm (UTC -4)
NJ, when was the last time he didn’t hit leadoff? Of course his best years have been there, since haven’t all of his years been there?
Honestly, IMO there is not that big of a difference between hitting 1 and 2 in terms of utilizing his speed. Everything he can do as a lead off guy he can do in the 2 hole, plus he will have the opportunity to drive in runs.
all goes back to utilizing your players best. If luis is around, he makes more sense leading off. If they trade him and get a Kent type for 2B, then reyes is the most logical lead off guy, unless Pagan is playing (he seems to like it too!)
Mr North Jersey
9/21/2009-5:31pm at 5:31 pm (UTC -4)
hopefully reyes will be healthy in 2010 so we can see him on the field and not just speculate on what if’s.
Also i too hate to see castillo bunting witha runner on and no outs but the mgr has to take rsponsibility for that.
If you do not want your #2 guy doing this and he continues to do this then you are either failing to communicate your intent or you are but the player does not care either way the mgr is to blame.
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-5:38pm at 5:38 pm (UTC -4)
A-frigin-MEN to every word of this Mr North, especially the last paragraph.
If Jerry does want him bunting with no outs and a speedster on second in the top of the first, Jerry is a moron….and if he does not want Slappy doing this and Slappy still does, then Jerry is not respected.
While I am not a professional baseball evaluator and just play on on TRDMB, personally, I think we have the worst of BOTH worlds, and that Jerry is a disrespected moron.
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-7:22pm at 7:22 pm (UTC -4)
Ah, the one beautiful thing about these last couple of weeks is that it will almost certainly be the very last time I will ever see rancid journeymen garbage like Figueroa and Misch in a Met uniform.
metsfan4decades
9/21/2009-9:38pm at 9:38 pm (UTC -4)
There is no way Pat Misch could even remotely be considered for a SP spot at this point. Man, he didn’t even get through the 2nd inning tonight. We already have one with that potential every time he takes the mound – Ollie – we can’t afford another next year.
If Pat Misch is still on this team and he’s starting at some point next year, we know we’ve wound up with multiple injuries to the starting rotation again.
Sigh…..
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-10:23pm at 10:23 pm (UTC -4)
I think Misch should be given a nice gold watch to commemorate his lone major league win, and then released and pushed very firmly in the direction of the nearest door that leads out of Citi…..
stickguy
9/22/2009-12:09am at 12:09 am (UTC -4)
at most, a ST invite to see if he can win the coveted 2nd lefty/mop up man role in the pen. I have Bostick pencilled in for that at the moment.
You are right that it won’t be a good sign if he starts, but I do like having the spare arms in the pen be guys that can and have started, for emergency duty, as opposed to cutting guys like O’Day to bring up a still (figgy) for 1 start.
metsfan4decades
9/22/2009-7:27am at 7:27 am (UTC -4)
Yes, I have no problem with a ST invite and chance for the BP. He did some nice work coming out of the BP at times this year.
stickguy
9/21/2009-9:45pm at 9:45 pm (UTC -4)
that was an ugly game.
only real positive is that Mr. Murphy continue to rake, and piling up them extra base hits. He must be way ahead of DW by now.
Kingman 26
9/21/2009-10:21pm at 10:21 pm (UTC -4)
Did you see the stat for extra base hits in Sept—Murph was first in the league, right ahead of Pujols, Fielder and Carlos Lee I think.
Gotta spend on Lackey and a LF and let Murph hit 7th next year and develop.
stickguy
9/22/2009-12:04am at 12:04 am (UTC -4)
say they get Holliday, just for S&Gs. Or pick your favorite equvilant bat.
Frenchy hitting 6th and Murphy 7th (or flip them) really isn’t a bad bottom of the order, since those should be complimentary players that can bang some extra base hits and clean up the runners on base.
Just by getting Reyes and a real bat for LF, they end up with:
castillo (yes, he hits 1st)
reyes
wright
beltran
holliday/new bat
francouer
murphy
catcher.
Not murderers row, but pretty good for the NL, and not much different than the Phils .
That top 5 is going to be on base a ton, and all of them have speed. Could be a doubles bonanza in the big park, with enough HR capability to keep things interesting.
metsfan4decades
9/22/2009-7:28am at 7:28 am (UTC -4)
The thing though with some of these Sept stats is players are facing some non regulars, call ups, etc. I wonder how much we should be factoring that in…..
metro
9/22/2009-8:08am at 8:08 am (UTC -4)
Murphy has 4 walks since August 1st spanning 38 games and 178 ab’s, Murphy and Frenchy together will be disastrous for the 2010 Mets. The only time Murphy has shown an ability to take a walk is when he is defensive (like he did to start the year). Now he goes up and hacks at everything (thus his sparkling .299 OBP this month and .308 last month. Despite hot streaks Frenchy is the #1 worst RF in baseball in OPS and OBP and Murphy is second to last at 1b in both categories. You can’t have 2 guys “like that” PLUS likely a non-offensive force behind the plate and who knows what in LF. What happened to caring about defense? Murphy and Thole will give us 2 sub-par fielders without even knowing who our LF is. I’m fine rolling the dice with Frenchy (though this multi-year deal talk is ridiculous) but him AND Murphy, yuck.
Kingman 26
9/22/2009-8:13am at 8:13 am (UTC -4)
Lots of players have taken time to develop and Murph played about one game above AA ball before being rushed.
Far too early to give up on his development, and Chase Utley and Keith Hernandez are two guys of MANY who took a couple of years to develop.
And if we get a good LF and everyone is healthy, Frenchy/Murph/Catcher will bat 6-7-8. Are they really that bad for the 6-7-8 spots?
metro
9/22/2009-8:25am at 8:25 am (UTC -4)
Keith Hernandez posted an .802 OPS as a 22 year old and then .837 at 23 posting OBP of .376 and .379, he also as we all know was a HUGE plus in the field (something Murphy is not). Chase Utley was a 1st team all-american at UCLA and went on to be picked #15 overall. He was called up later than some because they had Placido Polanco at 2b posting an .800 OPS as a 27 year old and Utley had major fielding issues. But his first full MLB season he posted a .776 OPS and then .915. Now .776 may not sound “amazing” but it was still 35 points higher than Murphy and more importantly… at 2b. Frenchy has a .343 BABIP which is not sustainable over a full season, which means he will revert (at least somewhat) to what he has done for his career. Frenchy/Murphy/Catcher without Murphy improving FAR more than regular progression AND Frenchy playing this well all year (something he hasn’t done in 2.5 seasons) AND Thole or whomever we have behind the plate hitting pretty well AND adding a good LF would all have to happen for Frenchy/Murphy/Catcher to be acceptable enough to contend especially with our questionable pitching. Again, it’s not like Frenchy and Murphy are “middle of the pack” in OBP and OPS… they are last and 2nd to last in ALL of baseball at their positions. I doubt many people think Adam LaRoche is anything “special” yet he has a 138 point edge over Murphy in OPS, Billy Butler and Paul Konerko have .100 point edges and they rank 17 and 18th out of 23 eligible 1b.
Kingman 26
9/22/2009-8:33am at 8:33 am (UTC -4)
Well, I guess we are not destined to agree too often…my thought is this:
How many teams have significantly better 6-7-8s in their order than what Frenchy could be if he hits 20+ HR and plays good defense, what Murph can be if he improves a little over this year (batting 7th) and with Santos/Thole hitting 8th?
If Jose, Beltran and Wright all have good years and we get a good LF, and Slappy hits 2nd and has a repeat of 2009, is that really THAT bad of a 6-7-8?
trs86
9/22/2009-8:46am at 8:46 am (UTC -4)
IF we can figure out a way for Frenchy to bat 7th it dramatically improves his value. The #7 hitter in the NL needs in my opinion to be a guy who makes contact and is not looking for the walk. A guy that has a tendency to do whatever it takes to get the run in. That guy is Frenchy. Do you really want your #7 hitter to be a high OBP guy that walks a lot but never drives in a run?