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Sep 22

Real Dirty Rumor: Marquis To Take A Hometown Discount?

In an interview with the New York Post, Jeff Francoeur a personal friend of Marquis had the following to say:

Francoeur  told “The Post yesterday that Marquis, whom he considers a close friend, desperately wants to pitch for the Mets next season, even as the veteran right-hander focuses on helping the Rockies clinch a wild-card berth. “He’d love to come here,” Francoeur — who indicated Marquis broached the subject to him and David Wright earlier this month when the Mets played at Colorado”  Frenchy added “”He’d be a great fit. He’s from Staten Island. He’s a New York type of guy. He’ll probably be coming off the best season he’s ever had.”

I wanted Marquis last year, but this year he is very dangerous because of the last thing Frenchy said.  He is coming off the best season he has ever had.  Is it that he has found himself or is it that he has just had an abnormal year in his average career?

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92 comments

  1. metro

    The idea is to find the “next” Marquis. Not pay for Marquis coming off a career year. If he is willing to take 2 years 7-8 per then I would consider it but just remember one of the best deals Phillips ever made was Trachsel 2 years 7 million, guys like that decide who is a good GM and who isn’t,

    1. fongy2

      Spot on! Great post! Now heres a Met fan who knows what hes talking about!

      1. metro

        Why thank you good sir.

      2. trs86

        Oh no, Foggy has found an author who agrees with him. Quick take the keyboard away.

        1. fongy2

          You got that wrong TRS (not strange), I agree with him.
          Ya see, I don’t care if anyone agrees with me :)
          After 36 seasons on board this disaster, like shopping in KMart which
          is the closest store to my house (about 4 miles away), I’m a fan and
          continue to patronize but I dont EXPECT much for my loyalty!

          1. trs86

            LOL, Fongy you know I am just giving you a hard time.

          2. fongy2

            I know it homey! Man has this season been depressing!

  2. fongy2

    Yeah! Good luck with the “hometown discount” thing.
    Hey, I have an idea…hear we can p.u. Milton Bradley real cheap…
    Isn’t Case and a few others here big fans of his??

  3. darknova306

    Coming to NY after a career year… that screams ‘huge payday’ to me. It’s worth looking into to see what it’d take.

    1. wannybackstra

      I don’t see the discount coming. If he’s stupid enough to give the Mets a “hometown discount” coming off his career year then that should be enough to dissuade the Mets from wanting him. We have enough pitchers with too little between his ears.

      I wanted to trade for Marquis last season. Thought he’d be the perfect 5th guy. And he still might be. But not for the type of money his 2009 season will get him.

    2. metro

      Agreed.Pretty rare a guy who hasn’t made a “ton” of money takes a “hometown discount”. Would he take our 4 years 40 over 4 years 44 from someone else? Yeah maybe but I don’t care enough to find out. He’s a decent enough pitcher but there will be guys just like him available. Again as I stated above… find the NEXT Marquis, the NEXT Joel Piniero, heck are we even sure a guy like Chad Gaudin (I don’t especially want him) can’t put up a decent year for 1/100 of the price? I’d be looking at Justin Duscherer as a potential “cheap” option with big upside assuming he is ok mentally.

      1. wannybackstra

        Not sure this is the right environment for someone battling emotional issues (and we don’t even know yet how his physical issues are doing).

        But that might be the right idea. The problem is, players use the Mets as their fallback for long-term big dollars if it isn’t elsewhere (see Beltran and to a lesser extent K-Rod, who claimed he wanted to be a Met but really had little choice given the $). If a guy is going to take less than market value to prove himself, he’s going to do it in lower pressure cities and with better coaching (St. Louis being the perfect place).

        1. metro

          You are right but guys like Piniero, like Lohse etc sometimes don’t have many options. It’s not as if there was a bidding war for Piniero and I would be lying if I said I knew he would bounce back and be this good but there are only x amount of openings on x amount of teams and thus a good GM needs to be able to identify “good gambles” and not waste money on 32 year olds coming off career years. Like I said, I’m no Chad Gaudin fan-boy but there are guys like him available every year and they end up helping their teams.

          1. wannybackstra

            In fairness to Omar he has hit with some of these types of signings, albeit usually with veterans in support roles and not in the rotation or lineup – Valentin, Easley, Tatis, Stokes (whose time to go has come for me), Marlon Anderson for a while and even Feliciano.

            For a while John Maine and Oliver Perez were making him look smart too. They were not free agents but they were guys he identified in trades that probably weren’t on the top of everyone’s lists despite their obvious “stuff.”

            Now he needs to spot the next Rick Reed.

          2. trs86

            How can we be so quick to give up on Stokes just because he has struggled down the stretch?

          3. trs86

            It very well could be that he has to readjust to being used this much.

          4. wannybackstra

            Because he’s a 29 year old “power pitcher” with a poor k rate and the following career line v. lefties, which hasn’t gotten better this year (slightly worse, in fact):

            .330 .409 .506

            If he’s not going to be good enough to pitch a whole inning in the 6th or 7th, he’s pretty useless.

          5. trs86

            What are normal numbers for a 6th/7th inning reliever? Looks pretty normal to me.

          6. trs86

            I mean I don’t think he is great, a setup man or a closer but I think considering his cost he is fine for a back end guy and considering we don’t have anyone in the minors to take his place, to me his place is set.

          7. wannybackstra

            the first guy I looked at was Brian Bruney. Career v. lefties — 227 .384 .390

            The second guy I looked at was Peter Moylan: 258 .368 .337 v. lefites.

            the third guy I looked at was Ramon Troncoso: 271 .338 .388

            the fourth guy I looked at was JC Romero but he’s lefthanded… but 269 .378 .428 v. righties. While I was in Philly I checked out Chan Ho for this year (did not want to count his years as a starter) and he is 280 .350 .401 v. lefties.

            You have to be able to pitch a whole inning in the middle of the game and Stokes is awful at it.

          8. trs86

            And your replacement is? Another scrapheap guy that we hope would have better numbers? Or stay with Stokes for now until we find one that can even have a total ERA under 5.00.

          9. wannybackstra

            C’mon. He stinks. End of story. Not hard to imagine that production could not be replaced by one of hundreds of guys — even a young guy you’re taking a chance with.

          10. trs86

            Wanny I am not in the mood to argue your point. I think Stokes is fine for now and has shown some potential, you think he stinks. We disagree, go figure. LOL.

          11. wannybackstra

            Honestly, TRS, there is really no evidence you can present that supports Stokes to have the ability to effectively pitch an entire baseball game inning.

          12. fongy2

            I agree w/you Wanny! Stokes,while hes got
            a live arm,has done almost nothing to
            show hes anything more than an 11th or 12th
            Pitcher on a good team.

          13. trs86

            For you most likely not, but how about this for anyone else:
            Stokes has appeared in 28 games that he pitched at least one inning without giving up a run.

          14. trs86

            Fongy then you are actually agreeing with me. LOL. I know it’s hard to believe. My premise is that he is in fact good enough to be on the team and be a 6th -7th inning guy. Not a go to guy or a setup man.

          15. wannybackstra

            That’s great. In all likelihood they were mostly low leverage innings with no lefties or left handed pinch hitters used. His overall numbers speak volumes: can’t get lefties out at all…fails in high leverage innings.

            Yet, you think his numbers are normal despite the ones above.

            I’m really not sure why you want to keep crap on the team rather than trying to find someone capable. “good enough for now” is not how a team improves.

          16. trs86

            You are right, you should get rid of everyone and then hope you can find guys better.

            So your stats show that he is not good against LH and my stats show that he has been able to get through a full inning many times. So what was the original question again? LOL.

          17. darknova306

            Ollie was a smart move by Omar… before he signed him to that new contract. Ugh.

          18. fongy2

            Pinero and Lohse rec’d the benefit of Dave Duncan though!

        2. stickguy

          I’m not sure that some of the posters here are going to be able to deal with their mental issues next year. Forget about more players with them.

  4. stickguy

    agreed. I was also on the get him last off season bandwagon.

    Still, he has talent, is durable, and not too old. So yeah, he would help stabalize the middle of the rotation.

    So it really does depend on how much, and how long. In any case, the Mets should certainly be in on him.

    You guys also stole one of my pet mantras. Find the NEXT, not the LAST. ANd unfortunately, Omar is much more know for going after the last whatever.

    and for all the talk about #2, #5, etc. (which I still hate!), I would have no problem with a rotation of Johan, and 4 guys like Marquis. Even if he is considered what, a solid #3?

    better 4 #3s, than a lousy 5 like Livan!

    1. trs86

      Well before this year I would have considered him a solid 4. He does do one thing, mount up innings and pickup wins.
      My fear is still that he will command at least 10M and can we afford to pay that much for him as that would take any chance of getting a #2 away and lock in the rotation baring trade.
      Is
      Johan, Marquis, Pelfrey, Perez, Maine/Nieve/Niese good enough? Unless Marquis can duplicate this year on the big stage then I would say no it is not good enough. Now if you told me the Mets were going to trade Maine and then need a #4.
      Example Johan, Lackey, Marquis, Pelfrey, Perez looks very good.

  5. metro

    The Mets need a #2 or good #3 starter, signing Marquis is just spending money for mediocrity (well aware he was better than that this year) but we have a set budget even if payroll isn’t slashed. The mantra should be “spend on studs, save on average”. Average players can be found, spending big money on them handicaps an entire team.

    1. trs86

      I agree, but is Marquis average or has he found himself? Can we afford to gamble?
      To me if the Mets sign Marquis this offseason it’s either we got a stud for the offense or something went terribly wrong.

  6. metro

    I’m no fan of Brad Penny but he is another example of a guy who likely will be available at 2-3 million that can give you 80% or better than what Marquis will with 2% of the commitment. Vicente Padilla (again I’m not a big fan but a guy who would be cheap and potentially just as good) if we are looking to “fill the rotation”

    1. trs86

      Actually I love the idea of bringing in Padilla to compete for the #5 slot. Penny however, is still looking for much more money than that.

      1. metro

        Penny only got 5 million before this year, I don’t see any way he gets significantly more than that again and knowing what happened to him in Boston he may be willing to take even less to be guaranteed he will be in the rotation and not the pen. I’ll take guys like this at 1 year 5-6 million over what Marquis will bank… SURELY at least 3 years and SURELY at least 9-10 million.

    2. fongy2

      Like Penny BUT Padilla I understand is a disaster of a teammate.

      1. trs86

        Uh oh, back to the chemistry thing. Interesting that the Dodgers most likely knew he was a “disaster” of a teammate and still picked him up. I guess Torre can just handle those types of players, like Sheffield.

        1. fongy2

          Indeed! And for all his bluster Jerry is no Torre or LaRussa!

          1. trs86

            No but he was able for the most part to handle Sheff quite well.

          2. fongy2

            Kinda, sorta BUT it was alot easier b/c Sheff was getting
            Millions from Detriot AND playing everyday due to all
            the injuries.

          3. trs86

            Agreed, but even during the benching it does not appear that Sheff was ever upset with Manuel. Just Omar for not trading him.

          4. fongy2

            B/C he had/has a good relationship w/Jerry going back years.

          5. trs86

            Agreed, I don’t like Jerry but my point is we really don’t know if a player will be trouble in one clubhouse because he was trouble in another.

          6. fongy2

            Well you’re right about that BUT my point
            is why take the chance unless the guy is
            a nodoubtaboutit Star?
            THAT was my argument w/almost everyone here
            about Milton Bradley!
            Overall, not worth the trouble.

          7. Mr North Jersey

            honestly trs & fongy you guys r funny with the sheff thing.

            the truth is chemistry is important to an extent but you can sacrifice chemistry for production its that simple. you can deal with a players like Manny so long as he produces. but even he had his limits.

            you think jerry can handle players? Ask yourself where is church and Castro and why are they no longer on team?

          8. trs86

            LOL, you know I don’t like Jerry. As for Church and Castro? I am sure we could have handled Castro if he was not fat and injured. Church, I am guessing the same thing happen here that happen in Washington.

            But my point is that you never know if a player will be bad in your clubhouse until he has played for your team.

          9. Mr North Jersey

            true you never know but you can’t dismiss it you have to do your job and research is such player a worthy risk. u think when they got sheff they didnt ask his former mgr and former teammates questions about him and his character? of course they did and it was only after that that they signed him.

            Look at milton bradley in chicago here is a perfect example the only reason now that his attitude is a problem is because he is not producing so it is hard to tolerate a guy that is said to bich and moan and does not produce.

            who in their right mind puts up with that?

            now u read pinella defending his gm for taking a risk and signing him.

            there is a reason why guys like him and sheff bounce around a lot of teams and it isnt their production its their character.

          10. trs86

            Agreed, as a coach I have seen both. But if a guy is available and talented sometimes you have to take a chance and then see for yourself. Example what the Cubs did with Bradley and got burned.

          11. Mr North Jersey

            exactly talented is Padilla talented enough to take a gamble then becomes the question. The answer for me is I don’t know

          12. trs86

            I think cost is a factor as well.
            Mets would or should not have gambled on Sheff if he cost 10M but at 500,000 he was an easy decision.
            Padillia if he cost 2-3M is an easy decision but if he cost 10M it’s also an easy decision not to sign him.

          13. Mr North Jersey

            I agree about money aspect. Metro said it best

            The mantra should be “spend on studs, save on average”

          14. trs86

            Agreed, I still can’t believe we wanted Schneider at that price. That is the only reason to me the Millz trade was average. Having to pay Schnieder 10M.

          15. fongy2

            Thx Mr.NJ, you made my point better than I’ve
            been trying to. :)

  7. wannybackstra

    If the Mets want to acquire a promising young first base prospect, they can probably get Angel Villalona for cheap. He may be available in between 2 months and 20 years. But even on the downside, he’ll only be 39 at the end of his possible sentence: just the age Omar prefers!

    1. trs86

      Is he in the cell beside Burgos?

      1. fongy2

        Or the one next to Uggie Urbina!

  8. metro

    Let’s face facts… Jason Marquis the last 4 seasons

    2006- 6.02 era 1.52 whip
    2007- 4.60 era 1.39 whip
    2008- 4.53 era 1.45 whip
    2009- 3.84 era 1.33 whip

    None of his rates have changed measurably and this is his first season in 4 years giving 200 innings. Major pass from me.

    1. trs86

      Well I would say those WHIP are much better but to factor in that he is pitching in Colorado as well? But then again he was pitching in Chicago.

      1. metro

        His bb/9 is slightly down but his h/9 is exactly as it always has been his k/9 are exactly within his normal numbers, HR/9 are down SLIGHTLY (from 0.8 last year, to 0.6 this year). But keep in mind Coors Field no longer is a big-time home run park ranking 13th in baseball in most homers per game.

    2. fongy2

      Yeah BUT in the Wilpon’s world, ‘Hometown discount” is more important than stats!
      Ya know, like…Yeah he stinks BUT works cheap!

      1. trs86

        For example…

        1. fongy2

          Err, need an OF bat/RBI man to complete the lineup and with our new
          Pen put us over the top,get back to the playoffs and compete for a
          championship heading into spring this season.
          Tons of guys out there and available AND we got to watch the Great Danny
          Murphy AND Ryan Church, stumble and fumble around out there while
          hitting like a couple of 8hole guys.

          1. trs86

            But again is that because of cost (as Church was not that cheap) or because of intelligence? Church was thought to be at least league average and his numbers from 2007 and the first part of 2008 backed that up. Murphy they just had stuck up their rear. But neither fit your idea of guys they signed because they were cheap and they suck.

          2. fongy2

            I didnt say nor do I believe “theysuck” BUT if the goal
            was a championship, how do you enter the season with
            Church/Murphy/Scheider in the 6/7/8 spots…in addition
            to Slappy hitting 2 and when as expected he got hurt
            Cora in that 2 or 8 hole?
            Especially when this offseason there were sooo many guys
            availble you’d work fairly cheap and most importantly
            on short term contracts.

          3. Mr North Jersey

            i agree

          4. trs86

            Fongy, I am saying that it was not because of cost that they did not pick up Abreu it was stupidity. I think they thought Murphy was the real deal. It’s stupid but yeah…

  9. metro

    Esteban Loiza age 31 (same age as Marquis) 21-9 2.90, 5 years following that “breakout” year 36-32.

    Loaiza career-

    Loaiza 1.41 whip 4.65 era
    Marquis- 1.51 whip 4.46 era (entire career in the NL)

    1. trs86

      Metro, LOL, I don’t think anyone on here is saying sign Marquis to 3/30 so it’s ok. We know what he is, a #4 pitcher. If he can be had to similar price as Garland this year it’s ok if not, then go get Garland if that’s your only choice.

      1. metro

        Well at “Garland” price then it’s a no-brainer (1 year 7.25, 2nd year option, total value if bought out, 1 year 9.75 million) but I would be absolutely STUNNED if Marquis gets less than 2 years 20 and more likely 3 with this horrid pitching market.

        1. trs86

          I really don’t understand why Garland fell so low last year, he’s not great but he is an innings guy and moving to the NL was obviously going to help him. So I can’t say for certain who will be left out this year.

          1. wannybackstra

            Moving to the NL hasn’t “obviously” helped Garland. He’s the same heaping pile of mediocre innings he’s always been.

          2. trs86

            Yeah, lowering your ERA by .90 points and your WHIP by over a full point? Nah.

    2. fongy2

      Why can’t we simply act like a large market, big payroll team,coming off 3 greatly
      disapointing years and go out and sign the best available Pitcher,John Lackey????

      1. trs86

        Because that has not worked for us in the past?
        The sign the big name strategy will only get you so far if you forget or do not budget for the role players.

        1. metro

          You can’t afford (unless you are the Yankees) to waste 12 million on Perez, spend 6.5 on Putz (hey I was all for the deal but 6.5 million is some big-time cheddar for a set-up man when guys like Leo Nunez and Ramon Ramirez were available), 4.5 million on Cora+Redding, 2.0 on Schoenweis etc etc.

          1. trs86

            5 on Schneider and 3 on Castro to produce Santos numbers or worse.

        2. fongy2

          Role players shouldn’t require a budget.

          1. trs86

            Really? So guys that cost 4-5M don’t count on your budget? Alright, we are in great shape then.

          2. fongy2

            No it shouldn’t! What the Wilpon’s haven’t seemed to grasp
            or don’t believe is:Most important is the fact that,
            evenif you set “a budget” at lets say 140 Mil AND theres
            a guy out there who could not only help BUT maybe put us
            over the top, THAT the moneies generated from a World Series
            victory should more than help pay for THAT player.
            But as I’ve often said, the first AND ONLY goal isn’t
            to Win a Championship BUT “to play meaningful games in
            September” THEN lets see what happens from there.

          3. trs86

            OK Fongy, I disagree but anyway.
            I think like it or not they respect the luxury tax threshold and believe it or not we were much closer last year than you think.

          4. fongy2

            I know we were, its just aggrevating that
            in the largest market in the country,
            our ownership abides by Selig’s wishes
            and trys to keep the payroll within the
            soft cap while Bud’s great friends up in the Bronx get to play under another set
            of rules or really w/o any.
            And as much as I hate them, I do respect
            the fact that the Steinbrenner’s only goal
            every season is to win a championship.
            Budgets be damned! And while I’m ranting,
            it kills me how we’re looked at as arrogant
            while the Yanks seemingly do whatever they want,tilt the market,thus damaging other
            teams ability to sign guys they’re not
            even interested in and con’t to get away with this.

          5. trs86

            I guess this is where we differ. I don’t want to be the Yankees and I don’t want a salary cap. If the only two teams breaking the cap were the Mets and the Yankee’s don’t you think that a more hard cap would be put in place?

          6. fongy2

            Didn’t say I want to be the Yankees….
            BUT a Ring would be nice! :)

          7. trs86

            Well we at least have a couple of those, just not lately.

          8. trs86

            But to that point, baseball has also shown that the Yankee’s model is not the only way you can win as a big market team.

          9. fongy2

            True but our problem is we neither spend
            enough to do it the Yankee way nor do a
            good enough job with the farm system to do it like the Marlins or really even like
            the Red Sox or Phils.

          10. trs86

            I think for the Mets the best models are really the Red Sox, Dodgers and Angels. If we can mold ourselves after those guys and develop the way they have I will be very happy.

          11. Mr North Jersey

            you and every other mets fan lol would be happy.

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