Back in the heady days of mid-May, when the first place Mets were six games over .500 and held a 1.5 game lead over Philadelphia and before the Mets clubhouse started to resemble a triage ward, I was worried the Mets might actually make the playoffs. As the season wore on and the Mets lineup wore out then usurped by refugees from Buffalo, Binghamton and the waiver wire, I became relieved.
This being my first appearance on these virtual Dirty pages, I don’t want to be misunderstood. I am not happy about how this season has gone. I’m not pleased the Mets resemble a AAA team. I’m not glad the atmosphere at CitiField is less joyful than a Mahler recital.
You see, I’ve been a Mets season ticket holder for 25 years (I even bought my Loge seats from Shea – see photo – which I just realized I got on a rent-to-own deal). Considering the cost of my current tickets (nearly $25k for two seats in the Excelsior Gold section, right in front of the SNY booth), I now consider myself an investor. But with the recession, I faced the prospect of raising enough to pay for both playoff tickets and next year’s tickets…well, I simply couldn’t afford both.
Hence the nature of my relief about how this season has gone. And considering finances (mine and the Mets), I would not mind if the Mets lost all its remaining games this year and practice penury in the off-season – as long as I felt confident about success in subsequent seasons.
I think it’s time we (as an investor, I consider myself a “we” with the Mets) built a winner the old-fashioned way: from within. That means letting the young players develop (which means fail first), then determine what holes (if any) need to be filled by high-priced talent later.
In other words, stop spending my money unnecessarily.
Here’s how I’d like things to proceed.
First, I don’t want Fernando Tatis, Brian Schneider or Omir Santos to get another start. We know what we have in these players. Their additional playing time doesn’t help determine what the Mets need for next year. I want to see Pagan, Murphy and especially Thole full-time.
For example, last week in Atlanta, Jerry Manuel pinch-hit Santos for Thole after Bobby Cox brought in lefty Mike Gonzalez. I screamed at the TV. I wanted to see how Thole, who hit .328 against both lefties and righties at Binghamton, would handle Gonzalez. I don’t care that Santos then cracked a go-ahead home run. Even if the Mets had won the game, I would have considered it a loss because we’d have learned nothing about whether Thole could hit left-handed pitchers at the major league level.
Keep starting Bobby Parnell. These are the perfect circumstances for him to figure out how to start. I don’t need to see how Tim Redding pitches. Let Parnell spend the rest of the year getting pounded so he can figure out how not to get pounded. If he doesn’t or can’t, then at least we know where we stand with him.
For next season, do not re-sign Carlos Delgado, no matter how cheap he is. I love Carlos Delgado. But there’s no reason on earth for the Mets to spend money on another first baseman. I want to see what Daniel Murphy can do in a full season without the distraction of platooning and positional competition or shifts. (And if it’s legal, drag Keith Hernandez out of the booth and have him fine-tune Murphy’s work around first base during spring training.) Delgado would be nothing more than a place-holder until we can determine if Ike Davis is the second coming of Keith Hernandez, Rico Brogna or Mike Jacobs. Start Davis at AAA in 2010 and see how he does. We can decide to trade Murphy or find Davis another position – like the outfield, where’s been playing for Team USA in the IBAF World Cup – based on how each looks between now and then. In either event, Delgado is an unnecessary gamble.
Get whatever you can for Luis Castillo. Everyone who believes Castillo will duplicate his success this year in 2010 and 2011 and is therefore worth another $12.5 million raise your hands. With his 2009 season, Castillo now has peak value and, if we offer to pay some or most of Castillo’s salary, we might be able to get back some young players and start re-stocking our depleted system. At least we can save a few more dollars.
I don’t want to sound cheap. But as an investor, I feel cheated and I want a make good for 2010. If the Mets’ front office practices post-season penury, maybe they’ll drop ticket prices 20 percent. And if they drop ticket prices, they’ll likely not only get me back, but a whole lot of other disgruntled fence-sitters. And if we field a young, hungry team in 2010, we might embrace them and root for them with lower expectations and less disappointment.
74 comments
trs86
9/23/2009-8:17am at 8:17 am (UTC -4)
Nice first post,
Of course I am of the opposite approach. Go get us the pieces that we need to win and the fans will pay extra for a championship.
fongy2
9/23/2009-8:40am at 8:40 am (UTC -4)
Nice first post indeed!,
Couldn’t agree more,whats the point of learning things that we already know?
gonzowill
9/23/2009-4:35pm at 4:35 pm (UTC -4)
Nice job man, great picture. I would love to see the mets drop their prices. I am a sunday ticket holder and there may be problems with me going back there another season
prismo
9/23/2009-8:52am at 8:52 am (UTC -4)
Nice first post mrbabyface.
Does your company have any job openings – I want to be able to afford $25k season tickets! (just kidding..maybe)
fongy2
9/23/2009-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
So, it really does appear Omar is safe!?
Latin-American head Pena let go, coordinator Aguayo let go and Ast.GM Johnson stepping down.
All Omar hires…Like Tony B..Lets hope O’s training staff is next!
But, a question…When does Omar get to shoulder the blame?
Obviously even ownership knows O’s done a piss poor job otherwise why force him to bounce
all his guys?
trs86
9/23/2009-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
Fongy, you got a link?
prismo
9/23/2009-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/09/23/2009-09-23_mets_fire_ramon_pena.html
BOO-YAH! (arrested development reference)
Kingman 26
9/23/2009-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
Boo-Yaa Tribe reference!
fongy2
9/23/2009-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
Hello!!!…I got it from the links on your blog…Sports spider to the right
of the home page of TRDMB.
Kingman 26
9/23/2009-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
Nice post and welcome!
Personally, I agree with a lot here. However, I do want to see us spend some of your money on Lackey (if only him as far as big-money guys go). I do think Castillo can have another good year (why not?), and I do think a Santos-Thole 50-50 platoon next year will work nicely to ease Thole in, but I feel EXACTLY the same way when Jerry does something idiotic like pinch hit for Those against a lefty—not only did Thole hit lefties well in AAA, but Santos hits far better against righties!
fongy2
9/23/2009-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
Or worse, not allowing Murphy to hit against Lefties as late as early September.
Kingman 26
9/23/2009-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
Agreed!
The bunting is what drives me the most insane. I mean, you have a leadoff double in the first, a fast guy (Pagan) on 2nd and you bunt? In the first? When Pagan will score on just about any hit to the outfield from 2nd?
I truly hate Jerry at this point and think he is a really awful manager.
I defy anyone to suggest one game he has won with wise strategy, one player he has had a significant role in developing, or one instance which shows that his players have any serious respect or positive feeling for him.
fongy2
9/23/2009-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
Can’t disagree BUT hate is a strong word my friend.
Kingman 26
9/23/2009-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
Correctamundo.
I do not like Jerry, I think his strategy is questionable, his honesty is questionable, his bullpen use is questionable, his pinch-hitting choices are questionable, his development of young players is questionable, and his excessive bunting really makes me ill.
Hate is too strong; thank you my friend.
metsfan4decades
9/23/2009-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Other than the honesty issue (I think Jerry just opens his mouth first w/o thinking), I agree with all these points. I especially was not thrilled with his BP use/choices this year….
And that bunting – sigh….
fongy2
9/23/2009-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
Yeah that should be reserved for the yankees
Kingman 26
9/23/2009-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
And the Knicks!
fongy2
9/23/2009-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
Didn’t know the Nets-Knicks rivalry
was that heated! Heck,I’ve been a Knick fan
about as long as I’m a Met fan BUT I actually rooted for them during there runs
w/JKidd. But, Alright.
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Neither Mr. Baby or anyone of us should be paying Jerry one more penny…
An dan excellent point, Kong, about Jerry’s failure to develop any of the young players. Rather, I’ve written all season about how he’s held Murphy back (and Fongy just alluded to the same thing).
Parnell has gone backward all season. Murphy was “stunted” at best. Pagan gets dumber by the second. Pelfrey has taken a huuuge step back this season.
Ugh.
trs86
9/23/2009-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
Only one I take issue with is Pagan. Why do you think we got him to start with? Because sweet Lou wanted nothing to do with him.
metsfan4decades
9/23/2009-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
Nice read.
You make a valid argument concerning Delgado. I think Murphy is a place holder for one year also. But…..I’m in the camp of if we can get Delgado cheap enough his bat might just be what contributes to us having a competitive enough team to make it to post season next year.
I’m all for building from within, going with youth, etc. It’s going to take time though and I think we’ve got enough other pieces to still compete, so if we can get cheap, one year contributions for 2010, go for it….
Kingman 26
9/23/2009-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
Tough debate, but I think the authority with which we have seen Murph hit lately has clinched it for me. I want Murph at first next year, and to give Delgado a nice gold watch and send him on his way.
fongy2
9/23/2009-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
Mes think Delgado can afford to buy that gold watch himself!
As much as I like him, he already got enough free money out of the Mets!
Kingman 26
9/23/2009-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
Agreed!
Cannot bear to watch him on the DL again.
Gotta move ahead.
metsfan4decades
9/23/2009-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
I know Murph has done well in September. How much of that though is attributed to the fact that teams have expanded rosters and our guys are hitting against some pitcher/catcher combos that might not be quite ML ready or are scrubs?
I would have been more confident had we seen flashes of this before September.
Could be though he’s making the adjustments he needs to. I’d say the jury is still out on this.
Kingman 26
9/23/2009-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
Very true, but I guess the teams we have been playing are what makes me think it may be for real…except for three games against the Nats, this entire month we have been playing Col, Phil, Fla, Atl, etc, i.e. teams that are not playing scrubs at all.
fongy2
9/23/2009-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
Very good point. Ya know I’m a little bias toward Murphy
having seen him about a dozen times in AA b/f he got to Flushing.
That was why I felt the kid couldn’t play LF or 3B, hence it
was absurd to just give him a lineup spot coming into this
season when expectations were so high.
Like with Thole though,you could see how much more advanced he
was in his approach at the plate than say a Fernando Martinez
or Rueben Tejada who are still doing everything on physical
ability alone. After investing the entire season in Murphy
@1B, why not just con’t to move foward since he hasn’t been
a disaster there either w/the glove or AB.
trs86
9/23/2009-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
I am not sure I call .266 .314 .426 .740 for a 1B not a disaster. IF the Mets are going to get Holliday or Bay for LF then Murphy is fine. But if that is going to go to some B player then 1B can’t be a C (right now at best) player.
fongy2
9/23/2009-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
The numbers you cited were put up by a rookie,
switching positions on a bad team with bad coaching
under the microscope that is New York.
So, again not a disaster of a first full season.
trs86
9/23/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
OK For Murphy as a guy that nothing was really expected of before and then many put high expectations on him unfairly it was not a disastrous season at all.
However, for the Mets at 1B that is disastrous.
trs86
9/23/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Should we be fooled again by a late season run by Murphy? I see no way Murphy ever develops into a good 1B starter option. I however seen tons of value in him as a DeRosa utility type. Let him learn 1B, 2B, remember 3B, work on LF to be passable and then he can really help the team. I have no problem with Delgado next year at 3M base. If he stinks what does it hurt? It’s not like with 3M you are going to get a better 1B.
fongy2
9/23/2009-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
Not gonna happen my friend, Delgado will receive a larger contract
in the AL as a DH. Besides do you really want his presence in the
room or on the field if hes not happy?
trs86
9/23/2009-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
Why would he not be happy? If it’s an incentive deal and he is playing he will be working towards making money. If he stinks, at 3M you cut him or trade him to the AL. And who in the hell is going to give him much more after missing an entire season? Did you see what guys like Abreu, Burrell, Hudson, got last year? Of course you did because you have complained about Abreu
fongy2
9/23/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
None of the guys you mention are of the stature of
Delgado either in the clubhouse or on the field.
Plus, with Jerry still managing,how long do you think
he goes w/Gado?? It could be June with him doing
nothing b/f a move is made with the thought that
“hey he did it before”"so why not again”….
Lets just move on.
trs86
9/23/2009-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Move on to what? How bad would Delgado be if he was even playing injured? Would it be as bad as Murphy this year? Look at Delgado’s 2007 his worst season and compare it to Murphy. I am not saying dump Murphy I am saying that instead of expecting Murphy to be good AGAIN lets have protection for the lineup. If you can find another guy for that cheap that has potential to put up those numbers then get him instead. Just don’t depend on Murphy to produce. Isn’t that what you get so mad about for what they did in LF last year?
fongy2
9/23/2009-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
No…b/c I don’t think we’ll be a player
or two away from competing for a championship next season as we were coming
into this season. To protect Murphy,which
is a good idea, I’d more like the idea of
getting a veteran RIGHTY bat whos a good
glove man at 1B and who wouldn’t EXPECT
to get the MAJORITY of ABs @ 1B coming
into the season.
But hey, we can just agree to disagree.
I think though that if by some wild chance they were to seriously upgrade with
a Fielder or Gonzalez, I’m on board with
that. Just don’t want to be in a position again like we were with Alou,which never
made any sense to me.
trs86
9/23/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Alou was a much different case to me as we had no one to back him up. Delgado or Johnson we have Murphy there. Thus if they go down what did we lose besides money?
And I do disagree that we are not a few pieces away. I refuse to believe that. If I did then I would be so damned depressed I could not stand myself and every comment I made about the Mets would be negative.
jaded1983
9/23/2009-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
I disagree, leave Delado where he belongs. In the past. Let Murphy stay at 1B next season as he has been hitting well since July. Assuming we get someone for LF next season, it would be foolhardy and typical mets fashion to move a young, healthy, cheap option out of first for a more expensive version, or older end of their career player who cant stay on the field (delgado)
No one on the FA market will really outproduce murphy in terms of games played, or even production. Sure Johnson OBP is nice, but murph has more homers and doubles than him, plus you have his injury concerns.
LaRoche would be the only FA I’d go for, but would he really take a 1yr deal? Do we want to block Davis?
The mets need to be smart with their money this season, picking up Johnson or Delgado would be a waste of funds.
trs86
9/23/2009-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
But Murphy is still there. This makes no sense. You are not sending Murphy out to pasture here. And are you serious that no one on the FA market will really outproduce Murphy? Seriously? Take a look at the OPS of those guys and come back and say that Murphy will outproduce them. His OPS is one of the lowest for any 1B in baseball.
Now agreed as I have already said if they vastly improve LF and need money to spend on that player then fine leave Murphy there and bring in a vet to back him up. But if you are only marginally improving LF and have money left over why not improve 1B?
jaded1983
9/23/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
well thats why i hedged my statement that we get someone for LF. If we dont, than obviously we need someone for 1B.
OPS is nice, but we need someone to stay on the field and actually produce! Johnson/Laroche are the only guys on that FA list that is worth it IMO. Laroche will most likely be looking for a multi year deal, and can we count on Johnson? Sure he has a better OPS, but Murph still has more doubles and homers, Johnson just walks more. Its a tough call, but spending a few million on Johnson to get only marginally better production than murphy and his 410k salary is not the right way to go, especially with the mets’ payroll concerns. again….all hedged by someone with pop in LF
fongy2
9/23/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
AND Nick Johnson is always hurt!
trs86
9/23/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Well I would not say always Fongy but he has had some bad luck that has caused him to miss a lot.
That is why he should be around on a 1 year with an option deal, those type of guys are perfect to me for this year. Gives time for guys like Davis to develop.
trs86
9/23/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Agreed on LF, but my thing is Johnson should not cost more than 5-6, Delgado 3-4, there are others out there. I just don’t want to depend on Murphy. What if he is even worse? Then who is it? Evans?
jaded1983
9/23/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
thats a good point, but what if the supposed cash strapped wilpons shoot down a deal over for a #2 or a LFer over an extra 5 or 6 million? Its a tough call
trs86
9/23/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
That is why I think you can afford to wait on 1B. One of those guys will be left around. There are a few of them out there and none are dramatically better than others.
Go out and fix LF and SP then come back and spend if you have the money on 1B.
fongy2
9/23/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
You really are assuming alot!
1 yr deals for Johnson&Gado,they don’t
get hurt (again), Murphy doesn’t con’t
to get better AND that no one else will be available either before or after any or
all of theses things happen.
Murphy is cheap, Delgados set to walk
and Johnson is still under the control
of the marlins ’til mid October.
Why not just start from here and lets see
whay develops?
trs86
9/23/2009-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
I am not saying go get them now. LOL.
I am saying that I do not trust what I view as a playoffs or bust season on the shoulders of Murphy as our true 1B.
Again, if they get hurt or Murphy gets better then you have Murphy and you get rid of them.
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Dan Murphy since the all-star break: .285 .313 .490
The OBP is not there but we know that is something he is capable of and can get back to. More importantly, he’s shown more power than we expected. 36 doubles and 11 HR with a few more at bats to go. And his home run power, of course, will develop over time as most players do.
Dan Murphy for the last 28 days has really hit for power: .292 .304 .584.
I think he has earned another look. If he puts up his second half numbers with improved plate discipline, we might be on to something.
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
And if you extrapolate his post All-Star performance (64 games) out over 162 games you have a guy with 18 HRs and 60 doubles.
trs86
9/23/2009-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
And what if you took his 2nd half performance last year and combined it with the 2nd half performance this year? You would have a legend.
Again, I am fine with him if we drastically upgrade LF. But if we do not then we are in trouble with him at 1B/
prismo
9/23/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
The quote “Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me” comes to mind.
Murphy fooled us with his hitting at the end of the 2008 season. Are we going to let him fool us with the same bait this season? I wouldn’t mind eating my words if he comes back for a full season in ’10 and hits .290/.350/.450, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he came back and hit .260/.310/.370
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
Maybe he fooled you during the first half of this season during which he was being embarrassed in LF and being jerked in and out of the lineup by the Gangsta?
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
24 year olds hit bumps in the road and improve. Especially when they are rushed to the majors.
We don’t know what the real Murphy is. But we know he has shown signs of being a very good player in the second halves of both seasons.
He had a horrible first half which essentially killed any chance of finishing this season with good numbers. And during that time he was moved to an unfamiliar position at which he was embarrassing himself and was jerked in and out of the lineup by his clueless manager.
I am seeing enough evidence to believe that the real Murphy is somewhere between the two second half performances and not the guy we saw in the first half of this season.
trs86
9/23/2009-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
24 year olds hit bumps in the road and improve…. sometimes.
I think it’s a difference in how we view next year. To me, I see next year as a make it or break it season. If Mets don’t make the playoffs next year I am in the mindset that you need to break up the core and fire everyone if they were not already. I am not willing to risk that on trying someone who I think may be ok at 1B. If who we sign gets injured and Murphy is there to fill in? That’s how championship teams often survive because they do have MLB ready backups to take their spots. If Murhpy struggles next year are you ok with Omar trying to upgrade 1B or with Evans?
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
Then why not sign a MLB caliber backup first baseman rather than spend millions of our limited resources and guys like Johnson or Delgado who are just as likely to get injured as they are to play (and in Johnson’s case would noly be a slight improvement over Dan Murphy’s best case scenario as a hitter — read that I said best case)? Then, if Murphy fails (just as if Johnson or Delgado got hurt) we would have a MLB ready backup as you suggest.
It allows the Mets to save that money and use it in LF or on the mound. Why spend big money when you have encouraging reasons to believe that the spot can be filled from within?
trs86
9/23/2009-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
Ok so you are saying we should spend 2M on a MLB backup to backup Murphy instead of 5-6 on Johnson and have Murphy backup?
Again, if I was not certain next year was a put up or shutup I could agree.
And as I have said many times already today, get 1B last. If you spent all your money then don’t worry about it.
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
You make it sound like Delgado and Johnson come with some sort of guarantees.
I think it is just as likely that Murphy has a 280/350/475 year as either of those other guys have to actually make it through a season.
If they were to sign one, I’d probably prefer Johnson to Delgado. While both are physical train wrecks, Johnson’s health this season was a bit more encouraging than Delgado’s repeated setbacks.
trs86
9/23/2009-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
How am I making it sound like that at all?
I have repeatedly said that Murphy is great insurance to them stinking or getting injured. I would just feel better having Johnson Murphy than Murphy lesser scrub.
trs86
9/23/2009-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Seriously, If Delgado would take a Hudson deal you would still rather have a scrub instead? I don’t get it. For that price get Delgado, have Murphy to back him up and the scrub in the minors or the scrub as someone like Tatis that can play other positions.
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
If under your scenario the Mets can’t a guy in LF — would you prefer to spend the approximate $6m or more for Nick Johnson over Murphy (recognizing the good chance for injury) or invest that $6m to the pitching staff where it could easily make a big difference in either the rotation or to two spots in the bullpen.
When I say “guarantees” I mean that you’re willing to spend that kind of money for guys who might not play and result in an improvement of any kind. To do it, would assume that there would be such an improvement and I’m not so sure there would be.
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
No, I don’t want a scrub. But for Delgado’s money we can sign two top flight relief pitchers or a solid back of the ortation starter.
In those instances there would be immediate and likely improvement.
Relying on Delgado to represent an improvement over Murphy at the expense of another position is a shakey proposition. You might well just be throwing out $5-$8m into the garbage if he rolls out of bed the wrong way.
If you’re comfortable with Delgado-Murphy then you must be comfortable with Murphy because in all likelihood he would be getting the lion’s share of at bats.
trs86
9/23/2009-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
I said Delgado at 3M (Hudson type) not 5-8.
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll still take the one top-flight reliever then.
And this assumes that the Mets would even be able to sign Delgado for that little.
trs86
9/23/2009-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
What top flight reliever can you get for 3M that is worth 3M?
Besides, are we saying the Mets don’t have an extra 3M and they spent all the way up to what they did this year? Well then it would not matter because we would have Holiday and Lackey and etc…
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
For around the money you have decided the Mets could sign Carlos Delgado for (presumably after consulting with his agent) the following solid veteran free agent relievers signed this past offseason for comparable money(I’m not going to go look at every relief pitcher salary so this is for FYI only). Each of these guys would be significant improvement over just about everyone in the Mets pen other than Feliciano and K-Rod (again these are just 2008 free agents only):
Jeremy Affeldt — 2 yrs/$8m (4 per)
Arthur Rhodes — 2 yrs/$4m (2 per)
Darren Oliver — 1 yr/$3.6m
David Weathers — 1 yr/3.5 + option
Doug Brocail — 1 yr./2.75m
Chan Ho — 1 yr/2.5
Any one of these guys would be a significant improvement to our bullpen.
trs86
9/23/2009-8:06pm at 8:06 pm (UTC -4)
And which one of those guys do you want the Mets to offer that kind of cash to. In fact look at the FA reliever’s list and find one middle relievers name that you would offer that much too and he would take it. Not to mention that middle reliever must be more of a lock to produce in the pen than Delgado in the lineup.
Besides, you still missed the point. Who are we getting that wew don’t have the money to get Delgado and the reliever? Are we getting Lackey and Holiday? OK then fine leave Murphy alone. Are we getting Byrd and Lackey? Ok then we still have money for Delgado and a reliever.
stickguy
9/23/2009-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
you people are really dumping on murphy.
One thing I am seeing way too much of is number citing, particularly his OPS. Not that numbers aren’t important, but because too many people (even TRS, who should know better) seem to be taking his overall 2009 # and saying this is all he is, and all you can expect for 2010, so QED he stinks and shouldn’t bne playing (a slight paraphrase there!)
I personally think his 2nd half #s are more in line with what you can expect, with a bump up of OBP into the .340-.350 range. This then puts him into the low .800 range OPS, with +/- 20 HRs, which is certainly OK for a 1B (especially if he is only expected to be hitting 6 or 7). Also as good as Johnson, etc.
Why, you may ask? Well, 2008 was really not relevant, in that it was 131 Abs laste in the year for an unknown, and teams really didn’t have the “book” on him, and he was essentially playing with found money. But, one thing he did show was a very good eye at the plate (in the minors too), which is rare in a young player.
2009, he started well (april), and other teams found some chinks to exploit (plus you have to figure the boondoggle in LF was messing with his head). Plus you had jerry yanking him around. ANd very, very often rookies (I still consider him one) have terrible stretches like this where they have to re-adjust.
Once he moved to first, he seemed more comfy. But, You still had the Jerry factor, hitting cleanup all kinds of weird things going on. Even worse, the team wide lack of power, and the drumbeat from the fans (if he pays attention) that he can’tbe a 1B (no power!).
So, he seems to have made some improvements in his approach and is actually hitting for plenty of power in the 2nd half (doubles take power too!). He sure looks like a >450+ slg% guy to me.
His big problem is low obp, which is surprising, since that was reported to be his game. Well, not relaly surprising, given these facts: Clean up hitter, trying to keep his job, team stinks, team has no power.
So gee, he goes out and starts hacking at everything, figuring (rightly so) that if he stays pateint and just takes a bunch of walks, he will be out of a job. Gangstas love the long ball, baby!
So to wrap this up, I expect him to work like a dog this winter to get better at 1B (and to refine his stroke), and next year to be a more complete hitter, if he is comfortable that he has the job, and to be much more patient, and wait for good pitches to hit (if not, take walks). Given the FT 1B job, I absolutely expect an OPS of .800+ with at least 20 HRs.
oh yeah, he also works for minimum wage. Take the extra 5 mill not given to Johnson and get a better LF or SP.
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
Well done, Stickguy.
And your point about Murph becoming a hacker is a good one. Just like they used to say about why the Latin players are often free swingers: you can’t walk off the island. Murph has been trying too hard to hit and had lost the focus of what made him so promising… another check in the pocket of Jerry’s coaching staff.
trs86
9/23/2009-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
I agree I don’t see how he has lost the plate approach from last year and it SHOULD improve.
But I would think that most agree with me that next year is a VERY important year for the Mets.
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
Indeed it is. And I understand your point about improving 1B in the event that they can not make a big improvement in LF. However, I don’t feel confident that any of the free agents would be able to represent the type of improvement that their money would indicate.
I’d put the money in pitching before 1B in that case.
Adam LaRoche is having one of his typical second halves. He may be a better option than either of Johnson or Delgado if he could endure the abuse he would take during the first half.
trs86
9/23/2009-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
Oh well. Agreee to disagree again. LOL.
trs86
9/23/2009-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
Whoa I never said he could not improve, I am saying that if there is money left at the end I hope we don’t have to rely on Murphy. Again, if we get Holiday for LF then sure slot him in. But if we get a B/C player for LF and then we have Murphy at 1B we may be in trouble. You would basically have 2008 offense minus Delgado and that is scary to me.
wannybackstra
9/23/2009-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
From the NY Times courtesy of Mack’s Mets:
That player is Daniel Murphy, the Mets’ very own Mr. Doubles. Murphy has 36 doubles, eight shy of Bernard Gilkey’s team record set in 1996. Although that may be hard to achieve, there is another doubles record within Murphy’s reach. All but four of his two-base hits have come as a first baseman, so if he hits seven more, he will tie John Olerud’s club record of 39 doubles by a first baseman in a season. What makes that doubly impressive, so to speak, is that Olerud hit his 39 doubles in 160 games at first base. Murphy had hit his 32 in 94 games. After Olerud, the next two Mets first basemen on the doubles list are Eddie Murray, with 37 in 1992, and Todd Zeile, who had 36 in 2000. — NY Times
trs86
9/23/2009-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
Murphy is good.