Yes I said it. No I have not, after watching almost an entire year of bad Mets baseball, lost my mind. As it stands, based on the latest Elias Rankings Tatis is still a Type B FA. OK so best case Tatis and his 1.7M salary move on and we get a compensation pick which to me is incredibly valuable. Worst case we get Tatis back for the 2M range. As you all shriek in fear, let me remind you that sometimes the grass is greener on the other side. If the Mets do not bring back Tatis and go with Murphy at 1B, they will need: A RH that can play 1B to rest Murphy; a backup 3B, a back up RH OF. Tatis has seemingly hit into 302 DP’s (Only 13 but everyone of them cost us the game) while posting a .267, .328, .415, .743 line. While certainly not impressive it will be hard-pressed to find a utility player that will cost 2M or less that can play all of those positions and hit even that well. What we do know of Tatis is that the players seem to love him and he has yet to gripe about changing positions or lack of playing time. Also, it appears as though Tatis is just an all around good guy as we remember why he even came back to play baseball. There were a lot of things to go wrong with 2009 and everyone needs a scapegoat, however, Tatis should not be it.
48 comments
wannybackstra
9/24/2009-3:33pm at 3:33 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. Plus, unlike many Mets Tatis appears to hustle.
Perhaps someone like Chris Carter emerges in Spring Training to reduce the Mets’ reliance on Tatis. But Tatis’ versatility, attitude and reasonable production should have a place on the bench.
I’d be surprised if he didn’t accept arbitration but it’d be fine too if the Mets received a draft pick.
trs86
9/24/2009-3:38pm at 3:38 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah I think he likes it here. Sometimes we get too caught up in this player sucks or that player sucks. Ideally Tatis never gets more than 200 AB’s. Last year he got 306 PA and this year 355 PA. Of course he is going to get exposed. In a much more limited role with everyone healthy Tatis is a real asset.
rustyjr
9/24/2009-3:46pm at 3:46 pm (UTC -4)
you know I love you like a brother Trs – but – ARE YOU INSANE !!! I thought the tatis signing was a no brainer but his level of productivity has dwindled and hense became a lialbility to the team – Id rather see us make a push for Eric Burns if he is released by tghe diamondbacks – way better productivity and a better late inning replacement
trs86
9/24/2009-3:49pm at 3:49 pm (UTC -4)
How do we figure Byrnes has better productivity? And who are you going to get to back up 1B and 3B then?
Again, go find a player with that line for that little cash that can play multiple positions.
trs86
9/24/2009-3:52pm at 3:52 pm (UTC -4)
Liability? Come on.
.213 .261 .362 .622 (Byrnes)
That’s a liability.
.267, .328, .415, .743 Tatis compared to Murphy .264 .311 .423 .734
I am not seeing it.
darknova306
9/24/2009-3:52pm at 3:52 pm (UTC -4)
Is this the same Eric Byrnes that posted:
209/272/369 in 2008
213/261/362 this year?
Outside of that 2007 season he’s been nothing I’d want to see. I think Tatis gives more production and is more useful. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t rather see Tatis leave and give us a draft pick, but I’ll take him over Byrnes anyday.
trs86
9/24/2009-3:55pm at 3:55 pm (UTC -4)
It’s so nice to for once be in agreement with Wanny and Nova.
wannybackstra
9/24/2009-3:53pm at 3:53 pm (UTC -4)
Eric Byrnes’ last two seasons: .211 .266 .365
rustyjr
9/24/2009-4:06pm at 4:06 pm (UTC -4)
pfffftttttt lol times like these i wish we never traded lastings millige ( im kidding !!!) there is always someone available – and im sure a cory sullivan is cheaper that a tatis – i just see fernando as a impatient hitter thats all
trs86
9/24/2009-4:09pm at 4:09 pm (UTC -4)
Yet you wanted Byrnes. Come on Rusty, let the 13 game losing DP’s go. LOL.
By the way, Sullivan: .256 .340 .400 .740, LH and can only play the OF. Will cost at least 1M next year.
metsfan4decades
9/24/2009-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
But Sullivan doesn’t play first or third, correct?
As Real said, if we’re going with just Murph for 1st base next year, you need a back up there. And, as far as I know, Tatis is currently the only one on the team who can back up third – outside of maybe Murph.
I’ll take the draft pick too.
But how many utility players can we carry? You’ve got to have a couple who can play multiple positions.
trs86
9/24/2009-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. His ability to play IF and OF and even middle IF when desperate is hard to find. I like Quinlan but on a good year he still is under Tatis numbers.
wannybackstra
9/24/2009-4:55pm at 4:55 pm (UTC -4)
You laugh, Rusty, but I still think Milledge will be a pretty good player (maybe not great… but good).
Now we’ll have to compare him to Francoeur who is as hit or miss as anyone.
trs86
9/24/2009-5:35pm at 5:35 pm (UTC -4)
Interesting thing is they are only separated by 1 year in age.
trs86
9/24/2009-5:36pm at 5:36 pm (UTC -4)
But as Fongy will tell you everything that Milledge has over Frenchy he gives it back because of chemistry. I have heard he is a bad clubhouse guy. LOL.
stickguy
9/24/2009-3:44pm at 3:44 pm (UTC -4)
one more thing that is an easier call if they get smart and Dump Jerry! Tatis is actually OK for the reasons you described, you just have to try and avoid using him, ever, as any kind of starter. So, he can’t be even a quasi platoon guy in LF or 1B.
Oh, and try to avoid sending him up to PH with a man on 1st.
Have starters, and just use him when the starter needs a day off (like most teams use their bench guys) and he does give flexibility.
a bench of;
Tatis
Pagan
MI (cor role)
BU C
Carter? Sullivan? Beuller?
Is at least functional, and has people to cover all the positions.
trs86
9/24/2009-3:47pm at 3:47 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, sometimes I think Jerry’s hand was forced there because of lack of talent. But no there should be no platoon with Tatis. He will get plenty of ab’s playing 1b, 2b, 3b, LF, RF. And maybe if everyone is back healthy we could actually use him to keep guys fresh. Hmmm.
trs86
9/24/2009-4:20pm at 4:20 pm (UTC -4)
As far as that bench, I like it.
There are a couple of things however.
Not sure on Cora yet.
Also, I think we really need to consider trading Pagan. I know he has been great but his value may never be higher and I am not sure a playoff team can have someone that oblivious to baseball on it.
darknova306
9/24/2009-4:28pm at 4:28 pm (UTC -4)
That’s an intriguing thought, especially if Chris Carter turns into a legit 4th OF. I don’t know his full scouting report, but his line from 4 seasons at AAA looks promising: 304/373/380/890 and averaging almost 20 HRs per season.
Pagan has been really good as a backup, but we need to lose the guys that can’t play with any intelligence. Any thoughts on what you’d like trying to acquire for him?
wannybackstra
9/24/2009-4:49pm at 4:49 pm (UTC -4)
The scouting report on Carter is that he is a hitter that has a mitt because he likes the way it looks.
darknova306
9/24/2009-5:21pm at 5:21 pm (UTC -4)
Of course. Sigh…
trs86
9/24/2009-5:31pm at 5:31 pm (UTC -4)
Isn’t that OK IF we still carry Sullivan?
Carter
Sullivan
Tatis
Cora type
BU Catcher?
trs86
9/24/2009-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
Oh man, I usually like Joe D’s articles over at Metsmerized but please no one click on the Molina post. 2/14 for Molina who he says has shown no signs of slowing down? I would think dropping 60 points in OPS would be a sure sign of slowing down, either that or he is running quickly the other way.
CaseStreet
9/24/2009-3:51pm at 3:51 pm (UTC -4)
Hmm, I thought Evans or Murph to play the role of corner infield back-up.
I’d rather not bring back Tatis if Murph or Evans would get you close to similar production at 1/5 the price.
trs86
9/24/2009-3:54pm at 3:54 pm (UTC -4)
How can we depend on Evans to give similar production?
And yes it is 1/5 of the price but we are talking a small salary either way.
Also, don’t forget 2 things
He may walk and we get a draft pick. If he stays and we find someone better we trade him or Marlon Anderson him.
Arbi contracts are not guaranteed.
wannybackstra
9/24/2009-3:54pm at 3:54 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think either of those guys can play 3B and we know Murph can’t play OF.
trs86
9/24/2009-3:57pm at 3:57 pm (UTC -4)
I think eventually Murphy could learn to be a super utility guy and play a passable LF with time. I really think he should work on being a Tatis type himself. It would really raise his value.
wannybackstra
9/24/2009-4:03pm at 4:03 pm (UTC -4)
That may be true. But if the Mets plan to go into 2010 with him as the first baseman he’ll have to get all his offseason work in at 1B.
I think it would be a real project to get him capable in LF or 3B. I was wrong in thinking that he could learn to play LF — and for a while I even thought he was doing okay. But he simply doesn’t have the athleticism to make up for his poor judgments.
trs86
9/24/2009-4:13pm at 4:13 pm (UTC -4)
It’s funny, I think a lot of it was mental Wanny. He did not look good but he was no where near as bad in 2008 playing the OF. I think after a few bad plays and the world watching he froze. Give him time in the minors to play about 25 games at each spot and I think he would be fine.
CaseStreet
9/24/2009-4:09pm at 4:09 pm (UTC -4)
learning to be a super 1b would raise his valuee too, but I agree, Murph has Joe McEwing written all over him
trs86
9/24/2009-4:11pm at 4:11 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, I was going better than that. I was thinking a guy that could eventually mold into DeRosa. DeRosa was putting up subpar stats until age 30 and 8 MLB seasons before he finally had an OPS over .800.
wannybackstra
9/24/2009-4:22pm at 4:22 pm (UTC -4)
McEwing has never hit as well as Murph has since the All-Star break: .280 .309 .481
He still has the potential to be a pretty good hitter. And we know that he has the ability to be more selective (which will likely improve at least his first two metrics) once he stops trying too hard to prove he can hit.
trs86
9/24/2009-4:25pm at 4:25 pm (UTC -4)
I really think we should move him back to the 2nd spot in the lineup for the rest of the year. Go
Castillo, Murphy, Wright, Beltran, Pagan, Frenchy, Thole/Santos, SS.
wannybackstra
9/24/2009-4:45pm at 4:45 pm (UTC -4)
Makes sense to me. Gets him more at bats.
At the same time, Pagan has been surprisingly productive as a leadoff hitter.
trs86
9/24/2009-5:32pm at 5:32 pm (UTC -4)
It’s not that. It’s trying to change Murphy’s approach back to one of patience. How many times last night alone did he leave a runner on base swinging at the first damn pitch.
metsfan4decades
9/24/2009-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
I’m sorry but I never want to see Murph in LF again – unless it’s an absolute emergency. I think it would take an entire season in the minors for Murph to be passable in the OF.
trs86
9/24/2009-5:33pm at 5:33 pm (UTC -4)
Think how bad Tatis would look at 2B if he had to play there everyday. However, do I trust him to play there 1 game at a time? Sure if necessary.
trs86
9/24/2009-3:56pm at 3:56 pm (UTC -4)
Here’s another classic today.
Buzz: Marquis hopes LOTS of teams like him. Well duh. How the hell is that buzz?
darknova306
9/24/2009-4:00pm at 4:00 pm (UTC -4)
LOL How about:
Buzz: Albert Pujols is good at baseball. :p
Mr North Jersey
9/24/2009-7:29pm at 7:29 pm (UTC -4)
I know I have been away with more pressing needs this week but when I saw TRS do a post titled “Mets Should Offer Tatis Arbitration”
well let’s just say I didn’t even need to read the post to know what my reply was going to be and that is…
Where do I sign up for the meds your taking cause I sure need some of that shyt.
trs86
9/24/2009-10:00pm at 10:00 pm (UTC -4)
NJ you really need to read it. Tatis is a hardworker and plays many positions puting up a line that is actually hard to find from a utility player. He’s cheap even if he accepts arbitration and if he does not we get a good pick from it. Even if he does accept it we can still cut him and not owe him but what he has earned to that point. I really see no reason not to offer it.
Mr North Jersey
9/25/2009-4:39am at 4:39 am (UTC -4)
“B.E.W.A.R.E. O.F. T.H.E. M.I.R.A.G.E.”
trs86
9/25/2009-7:27am at 7:27 am (UTC -4)
LOL, what Mirage is that? That Tatis is not a good teammate playing for the right reason? That he is a guy that can play multiple positions well enough not to glare and still have an OPS above .700 for 2M or less?
Again you are missing the part that if he does accept it and stink in ST then he can be released and only owed like 250,000 LOL. Even if he makes the team the contract is still not guaranteed.
trs86
9/25/2009-7:29am at 7:29 am (UTC -4)
I am sure you already know this but Tatis’s OPS is higher than any player on the Philly bench other than Ben Fransisco while he was with the Phillies.
Mr North Jersey
9/25/2009-1:58pm at 1:58 pm (UTC -4)
LoL boy you are persistent!
You just refuse to let go I see.
I know the numbers say otherwise but dude sometimes you have to say
“F*#k It” and cut the cord.
IMO numbers do not tell the story in his case.
I say “Nay” on the article to bring Tatis back for Spring Training in 2010.
Next you will tell me Delgado should be brought back as well.
trs86
9/25/2009-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
That one is debatable. Yes I am relentless. What does tell the story Mr. NJ? That he is worse than other bench players because ….
Mr North Jersey
9/25/2009-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
I have to say TRS you definitely must of been Capt of a debate team.
LoL I think you could debate why the Mets should wear stripes as opposed to no stripes and have a good rebuttal for any point made for or against it.
I say that as a compliment you are that good.
To answer your question of “What does tell the story” the story is Tatis is a good teammate whose highpoint was back in 2008 and has failed the Mets way more times in 2009 then I would care to remember.
You want to say but look at the #’s I can’t argue with that but I say look at him on the field overall throughout 2009 and if you are satisfied with what he has given you then by all means bring him back.
Me I will tell you flat out I do not want any part of him back in 2010 but hey I said the same about Castillo last year and looks like he rebounded with a way more better season than many expected.
trs86
9/25/2009-3:51pm at 3:51 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think Tatis will rebound. I think that his role will hopefully be more limited and I also think it would be very difficult to find a guy to replace him that can play that many positions and still hit at all while being cheap and not complaining over playing time. If he got more than 250AB’s next year would be a failure either way, but if Quinlan (2nd on my list)got 250 AB’s for us at the same price it would be a failure either way with even worse numbers.