You know I was watching some of the game last night ( yeah I’m a sadist) when the a quote from the movie ” Mask” came to mind
” Please make the pain go away !”
Well to make a log story short – there are less than 10 games left until this cesspool of a season comes to a close – but alas the pain truly won’t subside because we will be inundated by excuses from everyone from Fred & Jeff Wilpon, Omar ” Dead Man Walking” Minaya, Jerry ” UMMM eeRR ” Manuel, to the bat boys ( all this while Mike “Fatty Fat Fat ” Francessa takes joys in autopsying this team while his beloved Yankees make their way through the post season.) Â Okay enough of my grumblings and on with the infamy !
Happy Birthday to one of the most beloved Mets of the early ’80′s – Hubie Brooks (1956) Even though trading him for Gary Carter was the right move, I always wondered what a one – two punch he and Mookie Wilson could’ve packed on a great team ! Also I was deeply surprised, saddened & disappointed that he didn’t show up for the Shea Goodbye closing ceremonies last September.
Power hitting outfielder from the late ’90′s Bernard Gilkey turns 43 (1966) . He had that one great year in ’97 then he crapped out and was sent packing soon thereafter.
One observation before I go -Damn Citi Field looks like the ghost of Ebbets field with the lack of fans in those army seats. I always felt a positive vibe when I saw the orange , red & green seats at Shea – even during the lean years – it felt like …. home
Sep 24
This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty 09-24-09
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43 comments
CaseStreet
9/24/2009-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
What’d you think of this lineup:
.300 .376 .454 .830
.318 .370 .383 .753
.309 .412 .445 .857
.268 .351 .440 .791
.222 .322 .441 .763
.215 .285 .387 .672
.266 .339 .407 .747
.220 .290 .255 .545
CaseStreet
9/24/2009-4:40pm at 4:40 pm (UTC -4)
not too exciting, I know.
Add the following rotation, though:
17 6 .739 2.84
15 6 .714 2.81
18 5 .783 2.57
16 6 .727 3.52
10 7 .588 3.88
Kingman 26
9/24/2009-4:56pm at 4:56 pm (UTC -4)
Did not recognize the lineup, but I would know those 1986 Gooden, Darling, Ojeda, Sid, and Aggie stats anywhere!
Check that team on baseball reference—the team was in the top three if not first in just about every single team batting and team pitching stat.
CaseStreet
9/24/2009-5:04pm at 5:04 pm (UTC -4)
correctomundo!
my mistake, that’s their stats batting in that specific position. It should be:
Dykstra .295 .377 .445 .822
Backman .320 .376 .385 .761
Hernandez .310 .413 .446 .859
Carter .255 .337 .439 .776
Straw .259 .358 .507 .865
Foster .227 .289 .429 .718
Knight .298 .351 .424 .775
Santana .218 .285 .254 .539
trs86
9/24/2009-5:37pm at 5:37 pm (UTC -4)
Different time and a different era though Case.
Kingman 26
9/24/2009-5:45pm at 5:45 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks for the memories Case!
But let’s get George Foster out of there!
Kevin Mitchell or Mookie will do just fine….
CaseStreet
9/24/2009-6:53pm at 6:53 pm (UTC -4)
the most interesting to me was seeing how much play time the bench got. HOJO, Mitchell, Mookie and Teufel got significant playing time.
Kingman 26
9/24/2009-9:11pm at 9:11 pm (UTC -4)
Think of those guys on the bench!!
Mitchell, a future MVP, Hojo, a repeat 30-30 guy and top 5 MVP guy, and Mookie and Teufel—now THAT is a bench for the ages!
metsfan4decades
9/24/2009-4:49pm at 4:49 pm (UTC -4)
Well, over on MLBTR our Mets are expected to be one of the hot topics in the off season – and not in a positive light either:
‘Will the Mets reduce payroll for 2010, despite multiple needs?’
Sigh……
trs86
9/24/2009-5:39pm at 5:39 pm (UTC -4)
I think that one is all smoke. Of course it’s a story line because the media has made it into one. It has no merit YET>
Kingman 26
9/24/2009-4:58pm at 4:58 pm (UTC -4)
Damn, good call on Hubie not being at the Shea Goodbye thing…I think I was so happy to see Kingman there and actually smiling that I forgot about Hubie!
See you on Sat the 3rd Rusty!
trs86
9/24/2009-5:53pm at 5:53 pm (UTC -4)
Speaking of: Do we have enough money and prospects to get this done?
Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Crawford (explanation to follow), Johnson, Frenchy, Santos.
Why Crawford 5th? He has enough extra base potential to hit lower in the order and the #5 spot leads off more than any other position in the game. You follow that with Nick Johnson and Francouer you no longer have a week bottom of the lineup you actually have 2 good lineups in the same one.
That would cost around 16M leaving 14M for pitching. No that’s not enough for Lackey base, however, you could also have Lackey sign for 12M this year and then 18M the next making it 15 a year. If no, then I can live with Murphy at 1B in the 7 spot.
trs86
9/24/2009-5:54pm at 5:54 pm (UTC -4)
Question is what would it take to get Crawford? They need a reliever so I am guess Parnell is one piece. I would THINK that Parnell, Fmart and a lower guy would be enough for 1 year of Crawford?
wannybackstra
9/24/2009-6:37pm at 6:37 pm (UTC -4)
I would think there would be enough interest in Carl Crawford that the Mets would not be able to get him for a one pitch pitcher who can’t throw strikes, a prospect who is always hurt (and who is not universally viewed as a can’t miss) and a lower guy.
TB would have to really really love F-Mart.
And before you go apesh*t attacking me for disagreeing with you, keep in mind that several teams including the Yankees and Angels would view Crawford as more than a 1 year investment and can certainly afford to lock him in to a longer deal.
Crawford is a difference maker. There would be no shortage of interest.
trs86
9/24/2009-10:11pm at 10:11 pm (UTC -4)
I am sure there will be a lot of teams on the market for Crawford which is why I am fine with Figgins too as you already know. If it is going to take much more than that then we will and should pass.
Kingman 26
9/24/2009-6:03pm at 6:03 pm (UTC -4)
I completely love this idea, and think Crawford is a very underrated and extremely productive player.
If we could get Crawford and Johnson, I could maybe live without Lackey if we got two much lesser starters. Crawford, Johnson, AND Lackey, wow, that would be the dream scenario.
The Rays, as trading Kazmir shows, seem to be into saving dough….send them anyone they want among the youngsters…Parnell and FMart and a misc guy or two might get it done.
I love this idea.
stickguy
9/24/2009-6:23pm at 6:23 pm (UTC -4)
partly saving dough, but I think it is much more about they are ruthless when determining value. Once a guy is getting paid more than he is worth, boom he is gone. Even if he is a big name or still good talent.
and, it doesn’tmean the player is bad. If you value is 8mill and you get paid 4, you can stay. vaue 10 paid 12, you go, even though you are theoreticlaly ‘better” than the other guy.
Kingman 26
9/24/2009-6:04pm at 6:04 pm (UTC -4)
I also think the logic behind Crawford hitting 5th is pretty wise too….really nice scenario.
stickguy
9/24/2009-6:20pm at 6:20 pm (UTC -4)
crawford wont come cheap, and I doubt the Mets are willing to move F Mart + for 1 year of him. But, I am sure there is something else that would work (even if it is a parnell+marte, or something evuivilant, deal).
ALso, the same logic for having crawford hit 5th will fit for having castillo 1st and reyes 2nd.
Frnakly, since jerry has to go (non negotiable IMO!), the litmus test for the next manager is do you go reyes/castillo or castillo/reyes.
Johnson for 1 year is interesting. 2 years maybe (hey, anyone is tradeable). 3 years, no way.
but, johnson and frenchy 6/7, if the catcher can hit even a little, does make for a nice long lineup.
CaseStreet
9/24/2009-6:35pm at 6:35 pm (UTC -4)
get out of my head. did you break into my iphone? I just wrote Crawford, Johnson and Lackey into my lineup and rotation notes.
I figured 10 each for Crawford and Johnson and 16 for Lackey. That’s 36 which I figure still fits in the budget.
Crawford-Reyes-Johnson-Beltran-Wright-Frenchy-Catcher-Castillo
I like yours, too but I figure Beltran and Wright will drive in more runs this way. That would be an amazing defense, btw.
wannybackstra
9/24/2009-6:38pm at 6:38 pm (UTC -4)
$10m for Johnson to get hurt??
His $10m would buy another starter for the back end of the rotation or two relief pitchers.
CaseStreet
9/24/2009-6:46pm at 6:46 pm (UTC -4)
since it’s not my money, I was being generous. He makes 5.5 this year. Who knows what he’ll end up getting. The point being that he still fits in the equation.
You’re right, though. You can get another starter for that price, but I don’t see the FO giving up on Pelf, Maine or Perez.
A much needed SU man should be on Omar’s list of things to do.
wannybackstra
9/24/2009-6:49pm at 6:49 pm (UTC -4)
My preference at this point is to save the money at 1B (especially if LF is manned by Crawford or a big power bat) and go with Murphy, who is showing promise again and was jerked around in the first half. This would allow them to fortify the staff, whether in the rotation or the bullpen.
But if they were to sign Johnson, I would not be offended as long as it did not preclude them from signing real pitchers.
CaseStreet
9/24/2009-6:57pm at 6:57 pm (UTC -4)
I def agree.
Fix SP, then LF, and finally 1B (well, not really finally since we need a C, P, SU, 2 bench IF).
Kingman 26
9/24/2009-9:12pm at 9:12 pm (UTC -4)
I COMPLETELY agree with this Wanny.
stickguy
9/24/2009-6:28pm at 6:28 pm (UTC -4)
random thought:
have we completely given up on the idea that the mets off season will include any creative wheeling/dealing? Is Omar at this point too crippled or shackled to do it? Will he even try, or get too conservative since he is a lame duck with his head onthe chopping block (when in doubt, throw money at big names!)
It seems like, other than this crawford idea from TRS, everyone is focused entirely on which FA the MEts will go after. although if you read enough, the concensus expert opinion is that it is a very weak class.
almost if you don’t get lackey or holliday, maybe Laroche, don’t bother (I really don’t want to go near Bay for big money). Maybe you can get a cheap mediocre back up catcher too. Or a 1B with some issues.
so, how about more of those wild and crazy trade prosposals that ae actually better than anything Omar ever comes up with!
CaseStreet
9/24/2009-6:39pm at 6:39 pm (UTC -4)
any interest in Willie Harris?
wannybackstra
9/24/2009-6:43pm at 6:43 pm (UTC -4)
Would be a great 4th or 5th outfielder. Plays great defense.
stickguy
9/24/2009-7:12pm at 7:12 pm (UTC -4)
only against the mets!
trs86
9/24/2009-7:23pm at 7:23 pm (UTC -4)
Stick i have not given up on a trade. We just dont know who is available. I think Pena and Crawford will be. But what about a guy like Overbay? He would be on a one year deal and plays great d.
stickguy
9/24/2009-7:55pm at 7:55 pm (UTC -4)
That is why it is so hard to make a plan for the oss season, beyond generalizations (power LF bat, #2SP, etc.).
I suppose a good hot stove exercise is to make a list of players at positions the Mets are likely to (or reasonably could) change at (LF, C, 1B and SP). Fas, and guys on other teams you could want, that aren’t unreasonable to think could be available (crawford, pena, Overbay etc.)
The I guess the trick is figuring out who the Mets will trade, and somehow putting the ask and give part together!
I think that the Mets aren’t likely to be trading many (any?) of the better prospects this year, so it may be FA, salary dump, or nothing.
Oh, as to overbay, is he going to be enough better than Johnson to be worth more $$ and also some prospects to get?
Unless, of course, they trade somthing for overbay + a part they need (catcher? P?) and take back salary to make it work.
trs86
9/24/2009-10:09pm at 10:09 pm (UTC -4)
That’s true, but are we 100% that we can even get Johnson? Are we sure he will only get 1 year? We know how much Overbay will cost and we know how long his contract will be. He however, is not as good of a hitter as Johnson but maybe more reliable. As for another guy, Scott Downs would be nice but he cost 4M. Brian Tallet has always been someone I liked as a reliever but they used him as a starter this year.
stickguy
9/24/2009-10:47pm at 10:47 pm (UTC -4)
I have no idea what this off season will paly out like.
Wonder if multiple teams are going to sit back and wait for the guys that fall through the cracks?
Of course, if they do, there will be a sellers market at the end!
I can see Laroche getting a solid 3 years, but none of the other 1B types will get huge deals. Johnson may get more than 1, but I doubt he will get too much.
trs86
9/24/2009-10:52pm at 10:52 pm (UTC -4)
I think Nick gets 2/12 and Laroche gets 3/24? That’s my guess.
stickguy
9/24/2009-11:29pm at 11:29 pm (UTC -4)
probably fair. and laroche could be a good buy at that price, if you aren’t worried about any young 1Bs coming up anytime soon. although he might get a little more, but not much.
you rather have johnson for 2.12, or Delgado for 1/5+5 incentives?
trs86
9/25/2009-7:23am at 7:23 am (UTC -4)
Hmmm, money aside, Johnson for 2/12. I just trust him to be healthy more than Delgado and it’s not like in the 2nd year we could not trade him if Murphy or Davis push for a spot. One thing with Davis to remember is he can play OF, so we may see him even sooner if LF is filled with a scrub or Frenchy struggles.
trs86
9/24/2009-10:26pm at 10:26 pm (UTC -4)
What do you guys think about Aaron Harang? He is owed 12.5M for 1 more year. I would think considering how terrible the Reds OF is they would actually be interested in Pagan. Granted it would take more, but with that contract who knows how much more.
stickguy
9/24/2009-10:45pm at 10:45 pm (UTC -4)
I brought him up a few times as a name I liked (and generally got grief for it!) Not sure what the Reds are really looking for, but coming off a couple of injury marred, no spectacular seasons, what can they really expect?
Heck, if they get Pagan, who is having a surprisingly good year (lther than a few brain farts), and is cheap, they are going to have to eat some $$.
Harang is pricey enough that he might not get claimed if he went on waivers, so that doesn’t bode well for the Reds. They may decide to keep him instead.
also, it is really 14.5mill, since he has a 2 mill buyout for 2011 (or another ~12+mill I think), or 14+ for 2.
worth it maybe if they sent 4mill over with him (making him 10.5) for pagan? Probably. He still has stuff.
trs86
9/24/2009-10:54pm at 10:54 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I would have to be 100% sure he could go 200 innings. We don’t really have a contract they could take besides Castillo which they have no need for and Ollie which uhm they have no need for. We talk about how bad Omar is and he is but how many teams only have 1.5 bad contracts? I guess that’s something.
trs86
9/24/2009-11:00pm at 11:00 pm (UTC -4)
I am still also very interested in the idea that the Cubs might want Castillo. What would they trade other than Bradley for him? It’s not going to be Zamby of course. Still not sure I would do it as we would have no one to play 2B but if they were to take on all his salary and we have a tight budget we would have to consider.
stickguy
9/24/2009-11:34pm at 11:34 pm (UTC -4)
Who knows with the Cubs. But of course, I would love zambrano (take his contract, and they can’t ask for that much!). No way I touch Bradley. Might as well keep pagan. he at least is a nice headcase (he threw my daughter a ball during BP).
I still would be happy to just get rid of Castillo if they could get something useful back. Mostly to get rid of him and his contract, since I think the odds are better that he breaks down next year than that he has another retro year.
That, and I still don’t like him on the team!
and no, I don’t know who will play 2B, but they can find somebody. Just hopefully not A Hern.
The real question is what do they get back? A prospect? someone they can use? and arm? Not really up on the Cubs much outside of the big names with the terrible contracts.
weasle them out of soto. Send them parnell and castillo and $4mill for Soto.
trs86
9/25/2009-7:24am at 7:24 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think we want to do that last one. LOL.
I know how much you hate Castillo so you are a bad one to have this discussion with. Your detest clouds your judgment. LO>
prismo
9/25/2009-5:49am at 5:49 am (UTC -4)
Don’t forget about Gilkey’s greatest moment…Independence Day!