“I was not successful as a ball player, as it was a game of skill. ” Casey Stengel
Here’s what you missed on TRDMB:
- This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty 09-26-09 by rustyjr
- Quick Hits with Coach Mattone by mikemattone
- This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty 09-27-09 by rustyjr
- Tough week ahead for Mets fans by gonzowill
- EXTRA!! EXTRA!! TRDMB Front Page Vol. 20 by Mr North Jersey
- Sunday Rant At Kingman’s Korner: The Play That Epitomizes It All by Kingman 26
You got something to say? Say it on The Real Dirty Mets Blog!
79 comments
stickguy
9/28/2009-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
ONly 6 more games left in this season of trials and tribulations.
I am going to miss it. 6 months until a Mets game that counts (or any baseball, since other teams playing doesn’t count to me!)
FOr all of the disgruntled and/or suicidal set that are buying Wilpon Voodoo dolls and planning to never show them a dime until they buy every FA and lap the Yankees in spending, I hope you enjoy your off seasons and find something better to do in the spring.
Try coaching a youth baesball team, since you know everything there is to know about baseball, including how to read minds and fix swings based on a box score.
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
Is this one of your copy-and-paste posts that you also post on Metsblog?
Not sure exactly who on here this is targeted at.
I will miss the Mets big time as I do every offseason, especially as the Dolphins and Nets may combine for about 12 wins between now and spring training.
But criticizing some of this team’s players and actions is like shooting dead fish in a small barrel. And I never want us to be the Yankees, but right now this team is–at all levels–in disarray.
Players who refuse to hustle and play fundamental ball, mysterious injuries which never heal, a terrible manager who is given ownership’s seal of approval, a minor league system without a lot of help on the way anytime soon, coaches who pay as little attention as the players, etc etc etc.
You don’t have to be a major leaguer or Albert Einstein to realize that this team, its management, its medical staff, and its ownership have serious flaws when looking the the body of work they have put up there the last three years.
After watching this year after the last two, while I will not boycott the team, I can certainly understand people who will.
trs86
9/28/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
I think we are all a little stressed right now.
We still need to keep in mind that this team was in 1st place and very competitive until June when the entire damn team got injured. Yes we need to play sharper for sure but we had the talent to be in. 3 players can be a big diff.
stickguy
9/28/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
not directed to you, or most of the normal people here. More to the greater poster land in th eblogshpere (although some do make it to the RDMB).
Cerrone does have quite a few of them. Generally good for a laugh, but some people seem to be seriously disturbed about this team, to the point that I worry about there family and pets safety.
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
LOL!
Well, I am angry and annoyed, but I promise it will not cause any injuries to anyone or anything!
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
I don’t love Mark DeRosa a player but more and more I think would strongly consider guys like that for next season because I think this team lacks professionalism more than it lacks talent.
JoeR
9/28/2009-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
I disagree…I think we need more true talent especially on the mound and with the bats. Adding a guy that brings that professionalism along with real, true, consistent talent would be nice too.
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
I agree Wanny. We have talent, but we lack hustle, fundamentals, professionalism, and the ability to frigin pay attention.
Wright and Shines on Sat night were the last straw of this pathetic and lazy group for me, in terms of finally waking up to the fact that we need a serious manager and a few veteran pros like Cliff Floyd, Paul Lo Duca, and Jose Valentin, who, as some have cited, do in fact appear to have been the heart and soul of the 2006 team.
JoeR
9/28/2009-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
Wow so the Braves 2 1/2 out of the wild card. I said it all year the Braves are on their way back and how? Pitching just like the 90′s. If they add a bat and tweek some things it wont be us and the Phils battling it out. The Braves will be right there and very dangerous. Thats if this team, The Mets, havent missed the boat with this group of guys. I will say a prayer every night til 2010, because if come the end of next year, if we are in the process of firing a manager and GM and truly in the rebuilding phase I will have a nervous breakdown and may have to take a full baseball year off!!! Runs dont last forever, unlike the Braves and Yanks from years past, and we should have been making our 4th postseason appearance. Maybe we have next year to salvage our hopes.
stickguy
9/28/2009-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
You really are hung up on wins, aren’t you?
Try to look at it from a different angle. If they do stumble and finally clear out th eorganizational dead wood, and bring in some sharp baseball people to fix things, that is a positive.
It is also fun to watch young players, especially home grown ones, learn and develop, and hopefully break out to do big things. Kind of like 2006.
So, if 2010 blows up and they have to do the R word, just look at it as a psoitive step for the future.
And for those that hold up the Phils as the model franchise we should be trying to emulate, that is what happened to them. They kept trying overpriced fading vets, and stunk, until they got the fresh young talent out of the system, and supplemented it with a few other young and hungry guys, and the fans that kept the faith were rewarded.
And hopefully they stay healthy, since the Mets have the same basic core, at roughly the same ages as when they borke out, to follow that model, even without blowing the entire team up.
2006 might have been the worst thing that happened to the Mets, from the standpoint of making them think they were further along the team building process then they really were.
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
“You really are hung up on wins, aren’t you?”
What the hell are you drinking this morning?
stickguy
9/28/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
You are tense lately, aren’t you?
It just gets tiring having to wade through the nonsense from people that seem to have a full blown case of “yankee entitlement” to find posts that are reasonable and sane. This quote from Joe’s post: “I will say a prayer every night til 2010, because if come the end of next year, if we are in the process of firing a manager and GM and truly in the rebuilding phase I will have a nervous breakdown and may have to take a full baseball year off!!!”
Fits in with some of the other fans that seem to be calling for a complete boycott of the team if they don’t start 2010 by spending $100mill in the off season, and run out to a 35-5 start.
sometimes teams are short on talent, and even take a few years to retool. Well, so what? That means you can’t still watch and enjoy baseball? Or do you have to become a bandwagon jumper to the flavor of the day?
trs86
9/28/2009-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
Man I was just thinking that Stick. With Wanny’s comment that we are entitled to see….
Why are we entitled to anything? So are the Pirates, Nats, Royals, O’s, Indians fans entitled? Do the Yankee’s win because they are entitled to?
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
TRS — no one said anyone is entitled to win anything. I said that we are entitled to see players who try hard, pay attention and play with professionalism. It would be nice if the players cared half as much about their work product as do the fans.
The Pirates might suck every year but I bet you never saw Freddy Sanchez play with his head up his ass or as if he didn’t care.
Stop twisting everything around so that they look good through your apologist lens.
trs86
9/28/2009-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
Again, you have got to be kidding me. Drama boy.
You have never seen a team quit when they were supposed to make the playoffs and can’t?
darknova306
9/28/2009-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Just because it happens doesn’t mean the act is justified.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
You’re right. It’s acceptable because it has happened before. Two wrongs make a right.
And for the tens of thousands of fans sitting in the stadium, they should have known better than to show up with their pre-paid tickets or for the opportunity to show their children how professionals play the game.
By the way, was it okay in May and June when Luis Castillo was too cool to use two hands, or that Ryan Church didn’t need to touch bases, or that Beltran didn’t need to slide or that the manager had no idea that Matt Diaz crushes left handed pitchers?
Was their unprofessionalism and inattention to details okay then too because either Carlos Delgado was already injured or because there were so many games left ont he schedule for it to matter?
trs86
9/28/2009-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Sure it should not but I am not going to go nuts about it. I am not concerned about this month, I hope they lose all of them so maybe Jerry gets canned. However, mostly I hope they play well in April.
trs86
9/28/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Why do you keep thinking May? Do you not remember the Mets had the best may in the history of Mets baseball?
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
Because unprofessionalism and sloppiness in May is an indicator of unprofessionalism and sloppiness in June, July, August, September and October. Plus, even worse, it shows that these players don’t give much of a damn even when things are going well.
Is it okay that these things happened because at the time they were a few games over .500?
Again, remember in 2007 and 2008 when the Mets missed the postseason by one game? How would you like it if the Mets missed the postseason this year because Carlos Beltran didn’t feel like sliding into home plate in May?
trs86
9/28/2009-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
WANNY, they had the BEST May in the HISTORY of Mets baseball.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
That’s precisely the apologist point of view.
We can ignore the problem because things are going well.
Yet, that ignores the fact that the unprofessionalism continued on throughout the season, the fact that things will not always be so easy (baseball is a game of streaks you know)and that at the end of the season the game they gave away in May — even in a great May — could be the difference in the season.
I’m done here. You’re really disappointing me with your acceptance of this nonsense.
I hope you get Cerrone’s SNY gig if that’s what you’re aiming for.
trs86
9/28/2009-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
Wanny that’s bullshit.
I can have a different opinion than you with out being Cerrone or an apologist.
I am a Mets fan just like you.
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Didn’t mean to be harsh. As I said in my tense and angry rant yesterday, I can most certainly deal with being shorthanded talent-wise, and I can deal with going down hustling, but this year’s season-long bad baserunning, dropped popups, mental mistakes, etc, have been too much for me.
Sure I enjoy baseball, that’s why I put the TV on for a little while while getting ready to go out Sat night, and was greeted by The Franchise not hustling, AND being totally unaware of the situation AND a third base coach who is standing there for the precise purpose of COACHING the runners, which he did not do.
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
AND Frenchy going for an extra base which he should not have….but at least he was hustling….
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
FOUR separate errors in that play:
1–Wright not hustling
2–Wright not being aware of the situation
3–Shines being oblivious
4–Frenchy stupidly going for an extra base
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Shines should be figuring out if he can afford to pay his bills on unemployment benefits alone.
darknova306
9/28/2009-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
I think some of those “yankee entitlement” comments you talk about are from fans just venting frustration. We’re all entitled to that now and then. Rip on these comments if the Mets start off slow in 2010 and the commenters actually do abandon ship.
trs86
9/28/2009-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
I am not questioning the fact they are Mets fans. I know both of them too well for that. I am questioning the idea that we as fans are owed anything.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
I hope for you that if you ever decide to come to NY with your family to watch a game that the players decide they’re just not into it that day.
trs86
9/28/2009-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
As a Virginia fan I am used to going to a game and seeing a poor product. And don’t tell me that because that is college I should not expect professionalism. When you pay the coach 5M I would think he would have a game plan and coach to the best of his ability.
But I don’t walk out after a loss and say, man I want my money back they were not prepared.
trs86
9/28/2009-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
Also, thanks for the well wishes for me and my family. At least we are all Mets fans here. Nice sense of family here. Hey I hope the Mets lose every game you ever attend. Uh wait a minute, no I don’t.
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Don’t count out the Marlins, who are back yet again.
If we do not make the right player moves and fire Jerry the Joker, we will be fighting the Nats for 4th place.
trs86
9/28/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
May 15, 35 games in 2 games up. What happen after that? Hmmm I can’t remember. Could it be the entire damn team got injured?
Also, who does NOT hustle on this team? Wright because of one friggin play that you can tell even bothered him? Murphy? Castillo? Santos? Frenchy? Beltran? Pagan? Who on that list consistently does not hustle?
CaseStreet
9/28/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Jose Reyes, he’s a fat lazy slob
trs86
9/28/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
LOL, well he’s not even been here.
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Well, Pagan does not always hustle in the outfield, and runs the bases like a moron.
As much as I like Castillo’s resurgence, he has failed to hustle to cover second base on more than one occasion.
The play Saturday was not just hustle—neither Wright NOR Shines was remotely paying attention to the circumstances.
Why can’t you admit the disarray this team is in at all levels? It is not just injuries, it is horrible managing, comically bad fundamentals all season long, injuries that never heal, and it goes on.
trs86
9/28/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
This team that was in 1st place before the injuries?
Why can’t you admit that if this team was healthy we would still be in the hunt?
It is horrible managing, bad injuries and lack of attention. Sure.
But again, when you say the team does not hustle, I disagree. That’s not fair. Call out players for not hustling, that’s fine but there are a lot of player who are usually busting their ass every night and Wright is usually one of them.
trs86
9/28/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
In fact Wright has been one every play but that one. I am not concerned that Wright is now a loaf.
EVERY player that plays enough games will have something like what happen to Wright happen.
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
We are 18–38 in our last 56 games.
Do you think that is pretty much where this team should be in the last 56 games, taking all of the injuries into consideration?
We have lost series in this stretch to AZ (twice), SD, CHI, and been swept by the Braves (twice), PHIL, and FLA.
Should this group be THAT bad?
trs86
9/28/2009-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Yes. Have you looked at our pitching, and power production?
We have like 80 HR and our best starter is Pat Misch.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
None of that excuses the rest of the bullcrap we’ve been forced to watch. Short handed or not, we’re entitled to see professional baseball played by professional baseball players.
trs86
9/28/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Agreed that they should be playing better fundamental baseball. I however do not feel I am entitled to anything.
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
As Humprhey Bogart once said “All I owe the public is a good performance.”
Amen.
We have seen garbage performances FAR too many times this year.
It is not just once or twice.
trs86
9/28/2009-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
Then we write it off as a lost season and hope to improve on the product. Making generic comments like this team does not hustle does not get us anywhere. The entire team is not going to be traded nor is Wright. Sure we can bring in a manager but if things are as bad as some are making it then what would that matter. Might as well just slide back into mid90′s baseball.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Have you payed Citifield’s ticket prices? If so, I think there is an understanding that you are paying for a professional performance.
trs86
9/28/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Again, you are entitled to nothing. If you don’t like the product don’t purchase it. Also, being that the Mets are the only team that plays “unprofessionally” then you are at least getting to see 1 team full of professionals.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
You are such a shameless apologist.
Remember that MLB is a business and we are its consumers. When you purchase a rain coat you have a reasonable expectation that it keeps you dry.
If someone merely wants to watch a baseball game they can go to their local High School field. If someone wants to watch a PROFESSIONAL baseball game, packs their family up, pays the tix price, buys the hot dogs, etc., the least they are entitled to is seeing these alleged professionals give a little bit of a crap about the performance.
You wouldn’t be too pleased if you went to see Guys and Dolls and they decided that they didn’t need to recite the lines as they were in the script.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
If they had told me before the season that players wouldn’t slide, I wouldn’t have pre-purchased so many tickets in the manner that they practically force you into.
I bought the tickets with the expectation that the players would pretend to care.
trs86
9/28/2009-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
If I am a shameless apologist are you a shameless antagonizer or a shameless drama queen?
Imagine if that Guys and Dolls were to be playing in the Sticks Wyoming because they were demoted because their lead actors got sick.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
Again, you are confusing talent with professionalism.
I bet those understudies would still be rehearsing and trying to put on the best performance they could.
trs86
9/28/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
But would the hold overs that were having to play with those understudies in Wyoming?
trs86
9/28/2009-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
Seriously there drama boy, have you never seen a team quit at the end of a season that they had high hopes for that crashed? If not then you need to pay attention to more than just the Mets. It’s happening all over baseball right now, it will in football in few months and then spring will be full of basketball teams doing it. Watch what happens in the first round of the NIT in college basketball. Watch what happens in the last couple of games of the season with the Jets if they are not going to make the playoffs.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
If they had professional attitudes they certainly would.
I don’t try any less hard on cases I don’t expect to win. My clients (customers) are entitled to the same treatment as clients with stronger chances to win.
C’mon, already. Listen to how silly you sound. It’s okay to be an ignoramus if you’re already going to lose?
Not mention, this team played like a bunch of carelss buffoons back in May and June too…
trs86
9/28/2009-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
I wish they would play like the ignoramuses in May more often. We would be 60 games over .500.
metsfan4decades
9/28/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Well, not sure I can remember all the players who made at least one mental error this year but I’m pretty sure Tatis would not be on the list, if someone could compile it.
He might not have hit like he did last year, but all this talk about professionalism has me thinking of Tatis. That is one player who played wherever and whenever he was asked, hustled his butt off all season, whether we were in the race or the game or not.
He should be commended for that alone.
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Agreed and I hope he is back as a supersub bench guy next year….
trs86
9/28/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
I don’t hope he is back, I hope they offer him arbitration. After that I don’t care either way. If he comes back, great, if not then we get a 1.5 round pick.
johan4cy
9/28/2009-7:03pm at 7:03 pm (UTC -4)
tatis is definatly not a type A
johan4cy
9/28/2009-7:08pm at 7:08 pm (UTC -4)
tatis is defiantly not a type A
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Professionalism is not just about hustle — it’s about preparation and awareness. Even the veterans of this team fail terribly in this regard this season — repeatedly.
As Kong has pointed out Pagan has proven to be a buffoon, there are more baserunning mistakes by more players that can possibly be recalled at this time — i.e. Murphy stealing 3rd, Beltran forgets to slide, Wright the other day and a couple of occasions of trying to stretch plays that were not worth the risk — Castillo failing to cover bases multiple times and ignoring RBI opportunities for bunts, Frenchy having no awareness of the count at the plate and the pitcher’s tendencies.
So, yes, the players you mentioned are guilty too.
Hustle is one thing. Brain damage is another.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
And imagine if Mark Texieira had loafed just once… on a play that seemingly had more certainty as a conclusion than did the one Wright loafed on…
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
Wanny, as I watched that play unfold, most of my thoughts were that had it been the Mets, our guy would have been on third, and would not have scored.
trs86
9/28/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Hmm I wonder. I guess Tex has never loafed as far as we know. But of course we do not watch every single play of his career under a microscope. I will leave that for Rangers, Angels, Braves and Yankee fans to discuss.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
You’re missing two points completely here…
1. it’s not just about hustle. it’s about the utter lack of professionalism, care or attention that high paid athletes should have when playing a professional sport.
2. the Mets missed the playoffs the last two seasons by one game each. so the occasional lack of hustle may very well be a huge problem going forward when this team is healthy and hopefully performing to its abilities.
And no one has mentioned this but clearly Jerry has lost control of this team (if he ever had it).
trs86
9/28/2009-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Again, I agree we have not played fundamental baseball and I hope Jerry gets canned. However, to judge players or the play of this team for the future based on how it is playing while playing out the stretch is silly. This happens in baseball, football, basketball and every professional sport when a team that expected to be in the playoffs is officially out of it.
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, Wanny is saying it perfectly here—after missing the playoffs by one game each of the last two years, what better lesson could they have learned about EVERY game and play being important?
And what are we setting up for next year with this rotten play, which, again, has NOT only been since we were out of the race…it has gone on every month of the year. In fact, many of the bad plays were while we were still in the race.
trs86
9/28/2009-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
These games mean absolutely NOTHING. I have watched enough sports games to know how most teams who expected to make the playoffs play once eliminated.
If you guys want to make it into more than it is and say because of it we are doomed for next year or that we need to bring in a legend (faulty at that) to fix the mess be my guest. I will approach it completely different as normal and think rationally that we need our guys back and 3 good players to go along with them.
darknova306
9/28/2009-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
They’ve been playing like this since coming out of ST, not just in the games that don’t matter. Even when they were winning all those games in May they were embarrassing to watch on the field.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Exactly. Just said the same things above. And imagine the horror if the Mets missed this season by a game again because Beltran didn’t feel like sliding into home plate.
I think TRS is hoping to take Cerrone’s spot on SNY.
trs86
9/28/2009-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
If they were embarrassing while having the BEST MAY in team history, can we please be embarrassed like that more often?
trs86
9/28/2009-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
Wanny, come on you drama queen. Just drop it. Why is it not ok for me to have a different opinion? With out you calling me an apologist or now MC?
Get off of it. Some of us don’t have this necessary feeling of doom. I have already put this season behind me and focusing on next year.
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
What if one more win in May — even a great May — was the difference between the postseason or not?
What if that one game was lost because of a player being unaware of how many outs there were or because of an idiot trying to steal 3B with two outs and Carlos Beltran at the plate?
wannybackstra
9/28/2009-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
And I’m calling you an apologist because that’s the view you’ve been expressing.
(and I suppose it is okay to call me a drama queen because I’ve called you an apologist just the same way it is okay for the Mets to have quit because other teams in the past have done so?)
trs86
9/28/2009-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
I am calling you a drama queen because you are making a bigger deal out of it than it is.
I am calling you a drama queen because if someone does not have your point of view you need to call them names and say they are MC.
What are you Omar?
trs86
9/28/2009-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
How many times have I already said that the Mets have played sloppy, bad fundamental baseball. I am just not damning all the players because of how they are playing in these meaningless games.
Has it been a problem with Wright all year or just sense the meaningless games?
Kingman 26
9/28/2009-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
“What if one more win in May — even a great May — was the difference between the postseason or not?”
I REALLY agree with this.
Come on TRS, you gotta agree with this, especially after the last two years!
trs86
9/28/2009-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
Of course I agree with that. However, did I expect them to go 20-8?
Again, I am not disagreeing with how ugly it looks right now. I am disagreeing with how much that matters for next year.
trs86
9/28/2009-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Oh and the fact that I am now somehow an apologizing Matt Cerrone now because I don’t have Wanny’s view.