ESPN has officially announced Booby Valentine’s return to ESPN.
Valentine, who previously worked for ESPN in 2003, will take on expanded duties in 2010. He will appear on “Baseball Tonight” and 1050 ESPN Radio in New York, and contribute to ESPNNewYork.com, the local ESPN sports site that launches next year.
Bob Raissman, of the NY Daily News, adds:
Clearly, Valentine is still interested in managing. That’s why it’s likely, as it did in 2003, ESPN put a “protection” clause in his contract. In 2003, as part of the three-year offer negotiated with Valentine, network executives insisted that Valentine pay a monetary penalty if he bolted for a manager’s job.
Hmm, does this end the Bobby V for Mets Manager movement or does it mean he’s just that much closer to replacing Jerry Manuel?
57 comments
wannybackstra
9/29/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
I thought this news was broken last week.
CaseStreet
9/29/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
yeah, but now it’s Officially Broken!
wannybackstra
9/29/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
We oughtta fix it by putting him in a uniform!
(shouldn’t ESPN know better than to make such a commitment and so many plans around a guy they know will jump at the first good opportunity to get back in the game?)
trs86
9/29/2009-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
Would we be a good opportunity?
I want no part of Bobby V. Why not bring back Davey or Gil. Maybe Yogi.
wannybackstra
9/29/2009-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Those aren’t very good comparisons.
You can at least compare him with his own contemporaries.
Bobby is hardly a fossil and has been managing professionally and successfully in Japan since shortly after his last Mets stint.
If you somehow don’t think he’s a good manager or you don’t think he’s a good fit for this group, that might be fair. But if you think he’s dead or an antique you’re just being ridiculous.
Kingman 26
9/29/2009-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
TRS, this is a really strange viewpoint.
Bobby V recently won a title with a perennial also-ran team in Japan, and is 59 years old.
Davey is 66 and long removed from pro managing, Yogi is 84, and Gil is dead.
trs86
9/29/2009-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
What is 6 years among friends?
Kingman 26
9/29/2009-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, I would take Davey back in a second if the choice was he or Jerry!
stickguy
9/29/2009-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
in that scenerioi, I would take Yogi. Or gil. Just call him Bernie, prop him up in the dugout with some shades, and let the players do what they want (they seem to do that anyway).
Kingman 26
9/29/2009-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed; I would venture to guess that the players would respect a dead Gil far more than they do a live Jerry….
stickguy
9/29/2009-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
Hell, what’s death?
Davy does seem to be more like 20 years older than Bobby though. Must have been from living with the 1986 crew.
Kingman 26
9/29/2009-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
I thought the same thing, and was actually shocked that they were so close in age!
Bobby V seems SO much younger.
Must be the healthy Japanese lifestyle or something…
DNDJohan aka kistics
9/29/2009-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
With Willie still under the contract for next season, there’s no way Wilpons will pay for 3 managers in one season. I’m 98% sure that Jerry will be back next season.
CaseStreet
9/29/2009-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Willie had a club option for 2010. Manuel’s contract is 2/1.5M. I doubt 750K would impact their decision to get a new Manager.
prismo
9/29/2009-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
Come home Bobby, I miss you.
Kingman 26
9/29/2009-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
+1
CaseStreet
9/29/2009-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
Off topic:
What does it mean to you for a prospect to be ML ready?
stickguy
9/29/2009-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
pretty much just one that has kicked butt and proven they have mastered the high minors, and gives every indication they should be playing in the majors, and once they start, they won’t be stopping.
CaseStreet
9/29/2009-3:04pm at 3:04 pm (UTC -4)
F-Mart was having a very good season in AAA despite having 3 to 1 SO/BB ration. Too bad they screwed him up by promoting him to the Mets.
GravediggerHebner
9/29/2009-3:10pm at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
Can’t argue with that, but I also can’t suggest that FMart “proved he had mastered the high minors.”
A nice 80-100 game stretch of AAA ball, uninterrupted by injury or recall, seems reasonable to expect from him before counting on him as an everyday ML OF.
CaseStreet
9/29/2009-3:19pm at 3:19 pm (UTC -4)
I agree. Maybe Abreu would be a nice place holder.
CaseStreet
9/29/2009-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
One of the positives from this horrid season is that you can get tickets on stubhub for way below face value.
trs86
9/29/2009-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
I will never understand, hence don’t try and convince me LOL, what the magic and mystique of Valentin is. I loved those 2 teams but I saw the way they quit on him too. He’s just another manager, not some god. Is he better than Jerry? Well Duh, Willie was better than Jerry. But why do we always have to go back to something to try and relive something? Most of the time what you get is a bad situation and spoiling a good memory. Just let it go. Go find the next Bobby V.
dirtysanchez
9/29/2009-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed with that. I understand the love for bobby V but i dont think a 2nd round of him will result in a WS appearance. They need someone on their ass, like a willie. Layed back managers (manuel,howe) dont do well here. We never know what we have until we lose it…id welcome wilie back with arms wide open after the way this year went down under manuel
trs86
9/29/2009-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
I think they need a nice mix, someone in the mold of Valentine, Johnson, LaRussa, Cox, and other good managers. But that being said they don’t need any of them. Hey why not get Bobby Cox he only has one year left and he has one a lot of games. Maybe pay 6M for LaRussa or get Davey out of retirement. Why does it have to be this mythical goof ball.
dirtysanchez
9/29/2009-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
because that mythical goof ball was the last time we made it to the WS….
Kingman 26
9/29/2009-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
Why would you call him a mythical goof ball?
Yeah, the nose and glasses thing was ridiculous, by why else would he be called a goofball?
He is the only manager to take us to 2 straight postseasons, and with a roster inarguably FAR inferior to what Davey J and even Gil H had.
dirtysanchez
9/29/2009-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
lol and the roster today!
Bottom line, one can understand bobbys logic and he can explain himself. Jerry on the other hand does illogical things and cannot explain himself. Bobby knows how to play and win NL style baseball…i feel that jerry does not.
wannybackstra
9/29/2009-3:00pm at 3:00 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, but which do you want if you’re in a knife fight and need a gangsta to cut someone up?
Kingman 26
9/29/2009-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
Not Jerry.
I think the whole “gangsta” thing might be the most embarrassing part of bespectacled, scrawny Jerry’s whole persona.
And frankly, while I love rap music and it does not bother me, I have always been surprised that he never got any grief for his silly attempted “gangsta” jokes.
Kingman 26
9/29/2009-2:40pm at 2:40 pm (UTC -4)
I see no mystique. I see a guy who was successful here, successful in Japan, and as successful as anyone could be with possibly the worst franchise in baseball, the Rangers—I believe the ONLY team to never have won a single playoff series.
Valentine maximized what he had.
Look at the outfield and rotation on the 2000 WS team.
Maybe they gave up in 2001, but they also lost Hampton after 2000, and the pen declined significantly. As did the aging Zeile and Ventura, and the prematurely aging Alfonzo.
Guys like Rick Reed, Glendon Rusch, Bobby Jones, Dennis Cook, Turk Wendell, Pat Mahomes, Timo Perez, Benny Agbayani all had the best or among their best seasons under Valentine.
Who has done that under Jerry?
And while I like your Jaramillo idea, and I also think Teufel or Cora would be intriguing, I don’t think they Wilpons will go with another rookie after the Willie experience.
I say Showalter first, then Bobby V.
saltygary
9/29/2009-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
Well Showalter would guarantee success for the team once he gets fired…
And dead on for maximizing talent. Once Bobby left guys like Agbayani and Matt Franco followed him to japan because they couldn’t cut in in the US and knew they could still succeed under him.
wannybackstra
9/29/2009-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
Great posts by Salty and Kong.
You won’t ever see another team in the WS with three journeymen starting in the OF.
stickguy
9/29/2009-3:59pm at 3:59 pm (UTC -4)
wel, the phils had 2 last year. And Burrell pretty much was a washed up stiff by last year too.
another team that was for cure carried by its pitching and infield, just like the 1999/2000 mets.
CaseStreet
9/29/2009-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
Werth and Vicky are better than journeyman
stickguy
9/29/2009-4:22pm at 4:22 pm (UTC -4)
they werent going into last season.
Guess Cholly manual gets the credit for them turning into good players.
although he also has to get the blame for turning Eaton into a stiff.
saltygary
9/29/2009-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. Bobby has the respect of the front office and he gets the respect from his players. I think his understanding of cultural diversity also helps him in the clubhouse. It gives him a leg up on how to approach other players and to get their buy in. He has a good old school approach to fundamentals and he knows exactly how to handle the media BS in NY.
And for F*** sake he got an outfield comprised of Payton, Agbayani, and Perez to the WS. That has to count for something.
Personally have always liked Bobby V. just for the fire he brings. Guys like Willie, Howe and Manual as just too passive for my taste. Booby V. and Davey wouldn’t take crap from no-one and I feel that attitude trickles down.
stickguy
9/29/2009-4:06pm at 4:06 pm (UTC -4)
well, the real OF that year was agbayani, payton and Derek Bell. Timo only played in 24 games. And the playoffs are always a crapshoot.
I think Piazza with an OPS of 1.012 and Alfonzo at .962 (backed by 50+ HRs from 1B and 3B) had just as much to do with getting them to the WS.
dirtysanchez
9/29/2009-2:33pm at 2:33 pm (UTC -4)
Lol in a related story…steve phillips just quit baseball tonight in light of ESPN’s announcement lol
saltygary
9/29/2009-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
That would be so sweet. Im so tired of that dink.
wannybackstra
9/29/2009-2:59pm at 2:59 pm (UTC -4)
So are the ESPN secretaries.
GravediggerHebner
9/29/2009-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
Valentine will do the best he can with Phillips’s obvious flaws, but come up short yet again. Sorry ESPN. You still don’t do baseball justice the way the MLB Network does, and you never will. Even Bobby Valentine can’t win with your flawed roster ESPN.
CaseStreet
9/29/2009-3:17pm at 3:17 pm (UTC -4)
should i be scared that MLB Network will poach GKR from SNY?
They took Harold Reynolds and Matt Yallof. Could GKR be next?
GravediggerHebner
9/29/2009-3:24pm at 3:24 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I wouldn’t worry about them taking K. But G & or R, reasonable to worry about. Ultimately I would worry most about losing R.
I think G would stay where he is as it is the realization of a lifetime of dreaming and planning.
But R brings a lot to the table, and eventually he may grow as tired of K’s act as I am beginning to.
Perhaps it was the terrible product on the field that allowed me to be distracted, but I have found K’s complete obliviousness to what G & R are talking about, and K’s abject love of other teams’ players, cities, ballparks and uniforms too much to bear.
Kingman 26
9/29/2009-3:26pm at 3:26 pm (UTC -4)
I think that Gary has his dream job and would never leave…I could see Ron going away for more dough and more exposure though.
No way Keith leaves to go anywhere where he might have to work 6 or 7 days in a week….don’t see it happening….
wannybackstra
9/29/2009-3:31pm at 3:31 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. Gary is a play-by-play guy and I’m not sure MLB has an overwhelming need for very many. Moreover, I’m not sure Gary would bring or sustain that same level of excitement to a game featuring two other teams.
No way Keith wants a real job or to travel.
Ron would be a great studio analyst.
CaseStreet
9/29/2009-3:30pm at 3:30 pm (UTC -4)
you guys make quite an act. When’s the tour start?
Kingman 26
9/29/2009-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
+2
dirtysanchez
9/29/2009-3:32pm at 3:32 pm (UTC -4)
no way..GKR have a sweet job at SNY and are tops in their profession. Im sure they would rather be a big fish in a little pond than a little fish in a big pond. I love MLB network tho…
stickguy
9/29/2009-3:26pm at 3:26 pm (UTC -4)
THe more I read about Bobby V. the more mythical that 2000 team becomes. It almost seems that he took 9 random guys off of a local softball field and took them to the WS!
So what that the OF didn’t have 3 HOF caliber players? Just like I harp on with the “murphy doesn’t hit enough for 1B” crowd, BB is a TEAM game. You need to generate overall production.
SO, what the 2000 team did have (besides a lousy OF) was overall strong SP, a great pen (until the playoffs caught up to Armando of course!), and an extremely good IF. And not just on defense.
And that team realy supported their pitching, OF too.
Just having Piazza and alfonzo at traditionally waek hitting spots more than made up for payton and agbayani in the OF spots Also, it was Derek Bell that played the most games in RF that year (142). Plus Ventura had a big year.
wannybackstra
9/29/2009-3:34pm at 3:34 pm (UTC -4)
Even the infield was a bit overrated individually. Zeile was a mediocre 1B (while Olerud was fantastic in the preceding seasons) and Ordonez’s bat made Anderson Hernandez’s look like Keith Hernandez’s.
I think Bobby earned a great deal of respect for doing so well with that team — as you say as a whole.
Kingman 26
9/29/2009-3:38pm at 3:38 pm (UTC -4)
VERY impressively missing the point here.
Yeah, Rick Reed and Bobby Jones and Glendon Rusch and Turk Wendell and Benny Agbayani and Timo Perez each had a decade of years like they did in 2000.
The point is that VALENTINE MAXIMIZED THE TALENT HE HAD.
Jerry does most definitely not, nor did Willie, Art Howe, etc.
——————————————————–
In Japan, Bobby V managed the Chiba Lotte Marines in the mid-90s and was fired. He then returned to them after the Mets canned him, and led the team–a perennially crappy team–to a title.
Again, to be clear—he was fired, went back, and they won a title.
stickguy
9/29/2009-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
I think you are giving the manager way too much credit for guys having career years. Players do that all the time. SOmetimes it is just about being helthy (Payton).
Of course, anyone that tailed off in 2001 (or underperformed in 1999) has to be all Valentines fault too, right?
what a manager can do it use the right guys at the right time (AKA the anti-Jerry strategy).
Or do you honestly think that having Bobby V instead of jerry this year Murphy would have 25 HRs and an .850 OPS?
Kingman 26
9/29/2009-3:52pm at 3:52 pm (UTC -4)
What I think is that–without question–if Bobby V and Jerry had the identical rosters and conditions, Bobby would win at least a few more games over the course of a season.
I also think Bobby would have gotten more out of Murph this year–and next year–and more out of Church this year, and most likely more out of Pelf and Parnell too.
And as for this comment “Of course, anyone that tailed off in 2001 (or underperformed in 1999) has to be all Valentines fault too, right?” —my point was that the guys I mention had their best, or among their best, year(s) under Bobby V. Of course they are going to tail off, because none of them are very good–that is why Bobby getting so much out of them might be a valid point to consider in terms of maximizing players’ talent.
And I do not know enough about the Japan leagues really, but perhaps the perennial loser Marines won it all due to similar happenings.
Name ONE player who has had a career–or close to a career–year under Jerry.
I still firmly believe that baseball managers do not affect their teams as much as football and basketball coaches often do, but I also think it is true that some managers (Hodges, Davey, LaRussa, LaSorda, Billy Martin) get the most out of their players.
Bobby V wins more games in 2007, 2008, and 2009 with these Mets. No doubt in my mind.
stickguy
9/29/2009-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
Any good manager, including bobby, would win a few more games than jerry. No arguement there.
My real issue is with the idea that Valentine was somehow responsible for huge yeras by guys that weren’t otherwise capable of it.
and if he really was the magician, when didn’t they do it again for him?
Agbayani was young, so he should have been able to keep it up. He had an OPS of .871 in 119 games. Maybe he just mike vailed?
and payton did not have that great of a year (.778 OPS). It just looked better because he played in 149 games, about the only time (with the mets at least) he stayed healthy, right?
and perez only was in 24 games, with an .803 OPS. not much of a sample. got exposed in 2001 when he played more.
The real crash and burn was alfonso, and that had nothing to do with Bobby.
so not couting piazza and alfonso that were certainly not 1 year wonders, best I can tell it was agbayani with the career year in his 1st real season.
stickguy
9/29/2009-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
probably the best way to summarize the impact of a manager:
A good team can overcome a bad manager, but a good manager cannot overcome a bad team!
I do think a manager is important, but they have to have enough (helathy) talent to work with. Maybe the real trick is not that they do magical things, they just have to stay out of the way and not screw up the basics (like Torre).
CaseStreet
9/29/2009-4:59pm at 4:59 pm (UTC -4)
too bad we can’t replicate the 7th Greatest Infield Ever:
http://www.baseball-statistics.com/Greats/infields.htm