So I couldn’t get any sleep last night and decided to put on the MLB Network’s presentation of the 1986 baseball season that I DVR’ed. Every time I watch this, there is one segment that always sticks out in my mind. Jeff Pearlman (author of “The Bad Guys Won”), talking about game 6 of the World Series:
“I interviewed Bill Robinson before he passed, he was the 1st base coach for the Mets and he told me something that I will never forget. Two outs in the ninth, Gary Carter gets to 1st base and he says “I was not going to make that last F’in out of this World Seriesâ€. Kevin Mitchell gets to 1st base and says “I was not going to make the last F’in out of this World Seriesâ€. Ray Knight gets to 1st base, he says “Well I’m not making the last out, it’s going to be somebody elseâ€â€¦I don’t know if you can factually will yourself to win a baseball game but they came as close as anyone ever has.â€
Now I know that there will probably never be a team like 1986 and frankly I don’t want there to be. The team fit the times; they were gritty, dirty and flashy. The story from Jeff is one of hundreds that I’ve heard, each of which further solidifies the legacy of one of the best teams to ever take the field. That thought brings me to the team we currently have. I believe at the core of the Mets issues is a lack of identity. Not a new theory by any means but one that is probably the most difficult and complex to fix. I feel that the Mets as currently configured (2007-2009) are a collection of players and good ideas but hardly a team that can be told apart from any other ballclub. Now, I’m not talking about only physical ability but the intangibles and personality that good teams draw upon in those despite times to win.
The Mets will be going through many changes in this offseason. Some of which will come via trades and some will come via free agency. As many can attest to, I am a very level headed fan when it comes to this team and what I’m about to say is not out of panic or anger but out of frustration with the steady decline of this team. I believe first off, the Mets need to develop a tougher skin. I want to see Jose Reyes next year do his merengue dance all over home plate. Why do you ask…because he F’ing can. I’m tired of this hypocrisy that the Mets are subjected to when it comes to celebrations. I want them to celebrate when they have success and get pissed when they fail. I want people and media to STOP anointing David Wright as the Mets “captain†or “leaderâ€. David has not done ANYTHING yet to merit this type of praise. Also I would like people to give Luis Castillo some props and quit on so much hating. He did what he said he was going to do and did it well. Also can people realize that Daniel Murphy is just a kid and this was his FIRST FULL SEASON as a MLB player. I don’t understand how he got all this hype and why people are so disappointed.
Now, I do believe the Mets need a shake up. My shake up would have to be, the Mets finding a way to trade Carlos Beltran. Now I know people will bring up the power outage the Mets had this past year and Beltran is far from a problem when it comes to fixing that issue for next year. I agree with this but let’s be honest, the reason for the low HR numbers at Citifield(by the Mets) had to do with the injuries the Mets sustained during the season. Citifield ranks 8th in HR’s allowed in MLB, so obviously teams are not having an issue hitting balls out of the park. What does Beltran have to do with any of this you may ask? Remember I want the Mets to develop an identity that separates them from their past and jump starts a future. That being said, I believe Beltran should be moved in a 3 way deal to bring in a Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez. This will address some of the power issue for next year and give a different dynamic going forward. With some power coming from the LF the Mets pick up and Frenchy, The Mets should have a good core of young players that can do some damage.
I honestly believe that Beltran is the most psychologically messed up player on the Mets and has been ever since his at bat versus Wainwright in the 2006 NLCS which is described in painful detail on Wikipedia
“Wainwright walked Paul Lo Duca to bring up Carlos Beltrán with the bases loaded and two men out. All involved, including the capacity crowd at Shea, were acutely aware of Beltran’s history against the Cardinals, and the tension mounted accordingly. Down 0-2 to the rookie Wainwright, Beltran looked at a called strike three, a curveball on the outside corner at the knees, and the ballgame was over. The Cardinals had won their 17th National League pennant. This was the last playoff game ever played in Shea Stadium.â€
To be the guy who strikes out to end the season, especially the one they had in 2006 must be tough. Consider also his first season after being one of two big contracts signed in the 2005 season, being the guy who contested Jimmy Rollins “team to beat†assessment in 2007 (we all know how 2007 ended), being the guy who made his own assessment the very next year in saying the Mets were the “team to beat†(we all know how 2008 ended) and to top it all have the season he had in 2009…I believe you see where I’m going with this. There is no disrespect toward Beltran as he is one of the best center fielders in the game (which can translate into good players in return) but he needs to go, for his sake and ours.
I also want to see an improved bench. I loved Tatis’ hustle but he must be gone next year. I would not mind Jeremy Reed and Alex Cora returning as they can serve as the defensive replacements. I do think the Mets lack an identity behind the plate and a one or at very max two year deal of Bengie Molina should take care of this. I believe this is necessary because we need to be honest with ourselves, Omir Santos is NOT the player we all thought he was going to be…well that I thought he was going to be. Many have said on this blog that Omir was a “lightning in a bottle†and I believe they were right on. Omir’s “hot streak†ousted Ramon Castro but they both finished with similar lines. They both have 7 home runs, Omir did finished with a higher BA by 30 points and more RBI’s but Omir did also play 40 more games than Ramon. With the success of Josh Thole in his short stint in the majors, they need to both battle for a spot at backup catcher for the bench. This leaves one more spot that in my opinion needs to go to Mark Derosa. Mark can play various positions and seems to have that personality that this team needs to build an identity.
The Mets need to have more reliability with their starting rotation and bullpen. They obviously need a pitcher that can carry the momentum Johan Santana gives after an awesome start. Many have thrown out John Lackey as ideal for this role, a choice that I absolutely agree with. The competition for Lackeys services will be fierce but this is a must sign for the GM. The fact that the Mets first round draft pick will most likely be protected is probably the only positive for such an awful season, a positive that the GM must take advantage of. The Mets CANNOT go into next season with Mike Pelfrey as their #2 pitcher. While I do believe Mike was a victim of circumstance, this is one mistake that cannot be repeated. Oliver Perez is one of the worst signings ever made in Met history. Knowing that we cannot unload his contract, he must be relegated to being the #5 pitcher in the rotation where nothing is expected of him until his contract is up. The last spot can be decided internally between Niese and Nieve but if the Mets have money to spend, a Pinero or Marquis are good options to choose from. John Maine should be brought back and kept as pitching depth in AAA. As for the bullpen, it is a “hit or missâ€. I believe the Mets should bring back Stokes and lock up Feliciano for a few years. I believe Parnell should stay in the bullpen and the Mets must pick up another lefty reliever. The long man duties should go to the loser of the Niese/Nieve matchup. Pat Misch should return to be pitching depth in AAA and Tim Redding should never be seen again in a Met uniform. Francisco Rodriguez also needs to put up or shut up. K-rod is about to finish the season with his highest ERA since 2003, and here I always thought a trade to the NL usually helps AL pitchers (i.e Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia).
Last but not least, it is time to clean house with collapse personnel. This includes Manuel and Howard Johnson. I believe also a change at pitching coach is due. This team needs a stricter; more disciplined and fundamentally based coaching staff. Ill leave the task of potential suitors for others to decide but the fact is they will not accomplish anything with this laid back managerial style. Again my opinions are just for the Mets to develop an identity for themselves. Whether it’s a young baseball team with heart or a team that will give pitchers a hard time on the base paths, they need to be known for something…need to be feared for something. As 2009 draws to an end, the Mets have an opportunity to remake themselves into a team that can accomplish a goal that has eluded them since 1986. They have come close so many times and each time they lacked that one quality which separates the guy who goes home with the prom queen and the guy who doesn’t…identity. After 3 years of coming close and this abysmal year, this team needs to find an identity to go along with this new “era†of Mets baseball. They need to not be that guy who makes the last out…
101 comments
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
Really nice piece Dirty, lots of good points about lots of things…the softness, the need to clear out all collapse personnel, the absolute need for a number two starter, comments about intangibles/personality, the attitude in 86 and lots more.
Totally agree about Lackey, and Wright, Slappy, and Murph especially—Murph had about 95 games at AA and one at AAA. He needs more time to be given a chance. That bat might continue to develop.
Disagree about Beltran though. He will never be Pujols or a bigtime vocal leader, but he brings so much to the table in all ways. If we could get Fielder, maybe, but AGonz–no way.
And I know we have jokingly batted this around in the past, but after missing almost all year, and after the way the last two years ended, if Jose does one of his little sissy damn dances early next year, I may wait for him outside the stadium and throw up directly ON him. I want to see him serious and hustling, not pouting OR dancing. No one danced in 86, not until they were drunk after a clinching, or out on the town after another win.
Most of all, I like the length–nice to have someone else on the really long post train with me!
mrbill
9/30/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Good point re Beltran… and I also want Jose to hustle next year. He didnt do that this year before the injury.
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
Mr Bill!
Where have you been?
My Sunday Opinion post was crapping all over Wright for not hustling and having his head firmly in his butt instead of in the game on the ridiculous play Saturday night—you would have loved it!
Damn, what a disease of a season, huh?
Nice to see you back.
mrbill
9/30/2009-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Hey Kingman!
I’ve been mourning this disease of a season lol
I have to read that article!
90 losses Kingman, 90! ugh
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
Mr Bill, I am afraid it is going to be 93–94 losses…truly horrific.
metsfan4decades
9/30/2009-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
Some very good points. Overall, the mindset of changing the culture of this team is much needed.
Only a couple of points I don’t agree with:
- Trade Beltran. I just can’t go there.
- Reed on the bench: I don’t think he brings enough to take up a permanent spot on the roster. Sullivan and Reed as both defensive replacements? Have to have at least one who can hit for average.
- Misch starting in AAA: I think Misch brings too much to the table to not be in the BP start of next year.
- Maine: starting in AAA? You know that’s not happening. It might be time to part ways with him, but I’d give him one more try to become a viable pitcher on this rotation – on a short leash though.
Everything else I more or less agree with. On the coaching staff, I’d clean house completely from Jerry down to the conditioning trainers.
trs86
9/30/2009-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
Reed should be traded. I think Sullivan has more value. I see the bench currently as
BU C, Cora/MI Replacement, Tatis/utility man with bat replacement, Sullivan, Pagan. Again, I go back to the idea that we really should entertain the idea of trading Pagan as well. His value may never be higher.
dirtysanchez
9/30/2009-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
With a bat i see more value with sullivan but defensivly reed is as good as they come(endy pt 2). For a team that has commited 94 errors(tied with braves for 5th in mlb), we need all the defense we can get
trs86
9/30/2009-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
Sullivan’s pretty damn good himself.
dirtysanchez
9/30/2009-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
i hear ya…idk i just remember his ill advised dive…still makes me cringe
metsfan4decades
9/30/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
Ha!
I have to agree though with real. Both are good defensively, but I’d give the edge to Sullivan. I’ve seen some damn fine plays from him in LF this year.
Only problem is I think Reed might play a better CF. So if we’re not going to keep Pagan – which I think we should – Reed might be the better choice then.
trs86
9/30/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
True, I think Sullivan could play a respectable CF if forced. However, if we trade Pagan, then Sullivan and Reed would most likely both make the team.
dirtysanchez
9/30/2009-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
I know..it wasnt a place i wanted to go either(reg beltran) but we need a new dynamic. Gonzo and Fielder are both available and i think we would do better pluging up a hole at 1b with one of them who can give us the power beltran had and either with the trade of beltran or picking up a OF who are a dime a dozen for the most part. Omar is not going to deal fmart away and this gives them teh perfect hole to make that happen. I dont like it but it made sense to me. If we do that 3 way trade we
save $
plug up 1b for many years(improve IF defense)
bring a solid cleanup hitter(im sorry..i dont consider beltran a #4 hitter. The guy can steal and because of the mets situation he cannot. Im sure the yankees would LOVE to have him)
trs86
9/30/2009-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
I think the problem with your scenario is what those teams would be looking for in return.
For a Beltran trade you almost have to think same teams in on Johan. Yankee’s, RSox, Dodgers. I don’t see anyone else that Beltran would ok the trade too or could afford him.
dirtysanchez
9/30/2009-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
um..you think beltran would turn down the yankees in that stadium?? Besides the Yanks are going to be buyers for an OF.
trs86
9/30/2009-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
LOL, Dirty. I said besides the Yankee’s RSox and Dodgers.
But I don’t see 3 way potential there either. Imagine the Mets and the Yankee’s actually doing a trade of that magnitude. LOL.
Best shot for Beltran would be the Dodgers when Manny is gone or the Sox.
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
Um, you think the Mets would trade Beltran to the Yanks?
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
But look at Gonzo’s splits….except for drawing walks, he is AWFUL at home this year.
Citi might not be the right home for him either.
Fielder would be different. He is 100% legit.
trs86
9/30/2009-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
I like the idea of breaking up the core… next year if we fail again. To me it’s clear they are giving Omar one more year with no excuses. I don’t like it but I understand it. Go out and win next year, if you can’t then you are gone and we are bringing in someone to rebuild this mess. We are trading Reyes, Beltran, Castillo, Perez, etc… But lets hold off on that talk to see what this team can do when healthy and Omar knowing his back is to the wall. I also think most of the moves will be made in FA because I don’t think the Wilpons will allow Omar to trade any top prospects.
To me I look at it this way, spend this year and if you still don’t win you can save that money you spent this year when your payroll falls below 100M when you start the rebuilding process if necessary.
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
Absolutely.
FOUR straight years without the playoffs, and absolutely anything will be on the table.
trs86
9/30/2009-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, at that point Reyes and Beltran would be very tradable and Wright would still be young enough to build on. Also, hopefully some of these damn prospects we have would be ready.
It’s not like the Angles and RedSox did not have to do something similar even after they DID win a WS.
mrbill
9/30/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Wright would still be young enough to build on…
David is good but not THAT good.
metsfan4decades
9/30/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
I’d give it one more year also. If this team doesn’t come out guns blazing and competing all year, you almost have to virtually just about start over.
I will never understand though why individual with the talent we had, collectively, we couldn’t get it done. –Injuries withstanding this year.
trs86
9/30/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
I think 2007 happen. Crap happens and we never recovered as an organization. That type of thing is not that easy to get over.
mrbill
9/30/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
2007, 2008 & 2009 happened…You are right. That type of thing is not easy to get over. That is why to think that this team is going to be a winning team in 2010 (by some type of miracle) is not realistic.
steveo
9/30/2009-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
The beltran trade idea while it would be nice if it could net one of the above mentioned players [and I say nice only because beltran is getting older]would never happen beltran has a no trade clause that states he will be given an extension upon a trade by the team that gets him, nulifies any chance if him going anywhere and the fact that the 2 teams that hold fielder and gonzolez are about as cheap and broke as any team in baseball. I know you mentioned a 3 team deal but again who would be this third team to take on beltran to help the mets get one of those premiere 1st basemen ,wouldn’t you think they would want that 1st basemen for themselves.The molina thing, no way never to old and is already playing hurt on a constant basis, thole as a back up just wastes development AAA is where he needs to be for at least a half a season.Santos is a good platoon player and picking up a barajas or a kendal would do for one year,lackey is nice but the money he would want is # 1 money and the mets supposedly don’t have that so to respond to your great post I think this offseason is going to have to be a well thought out plan with lots of trades but the question is,is omar fit for the task ahead I guess we will find out.
trs86
9/30/2009-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
Why does it have to be full of trades? The Wilpons have yet to say they will lower payroll. 30M is plenty enough to get a good start on fixing this mess.
dirtysanchez
9/30/2009-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
The yankees…they will be light an OF this year and Beltran can slot in as a OF for them or if they have concerns with the knee, he can DH. Im sure there are other teams but i cant think of them right now.
as far as the omar ?…we both know the answer to that : /
trs86
9/30/2009-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
Dirty can you imagine either the Mets or the Yankee’s actually trading someone of that magnitude? I can’t think off the top of my head the last all-star at the time of the trade involved in a Yankee’s Mets Trade/
trs86
9/30/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
OK I got one for you. I has a lot of wheels and no trade clauses but what about this one.
Beltran and Castillo for Peavy and Rios.
mrbill
9/30/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
I feel that the Mets as currently configured (2007-2009) are a collection of players and good ideas but hardly a team that can be told apart from any other ballclub.
See Dirty? sometimes we agree.
The 2009 mets fight to make the last out on every game lol
trs86
9/30/2009-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
Hey it’s Mr. Bill. Good to see you.
dirtysanchez
9/30/2009-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
lol..must be a full moon out tonight lol j/k. I totally agree with the david wright-tony romo comparison…
mrbill
9/30/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
I want people and media to STOP anointing David Wright as the Mets “captain†or “leaderâ€. David has not done ANYTHING yet to merit this type of praise.
THANK YOU! and once again we agree.
trs86
9/30/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
Good god, go figure. LOL. You are still very predictable.
mrbill
9/30/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Of course my take on Wright has not changed. He hasn’t done anything to change that. Has He?
Let’s see what his excuse (or the fans excuse) is going to be when the rest of the team is healthy. Right now he is the Tony Romo of baseball.. too much hype and nothing to show for.
trs86
9/30/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Blah, blah, blah…
wannybackstra
9/30/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
I thought your gripe was that he couldn’t hit with RISP? This year he has hit .309 .379 .443 w/RISP and for his career is now at .302 .392 .491.
So what praytell is your “take” now?
metsfan4decades
9/30/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
And THERE’S the Mrbill we all remember…..LOL.
Glad to hear from you. As much as I disagree on your dislike of Wright, I see you stand by your convictions. Gotta give you credit for that.
trs86
9/30/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Yeah it would have to be boring just sitting around over on MCblog agreeing with all the Mr. Bill’s all day. I surprised he is not here more often.
mrbill
9/30/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Uh? are u saying MCblog is now a core blog? lol I had no idea!
trs86
9/30/2009-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
There is nothing left but people drowning in their own misery. Did you come up for air?
mrbill
9/30/2009-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
You mean people who refuse to give a lame core ANOTHER year? I haven’t been there for a loooooong time but I’ll check it out… Glad to see the core is growing… lol
dirtysanchez
9/30/2009-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Wheres the black mamaba?!
wannybackstra
9/30/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
Dirty hit on one key difference between the current Mets and the former Mets and may not have even realized it.
The current Mets are disliked because they dance. The Mets of yesteryear were disliked because they fought and were nasty SOBs (well, except for happy go lucky Gary Carter).
trs86
9/30/2009-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Actually being outside of NY there is one thing many of you miss. The Mets are not liked because they are the Mets and are from NY. People not from NY love to hate NY.
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
I agree Wanny. Go ahead and dance after you frigin win something.
And before anyone cites the curtain calls in 86, that was 100% demanded by, and for, the fans.
mrbill
9/30/2009-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Really good article Dirty.
wannybackstra
9/30/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Last night’s problem was once again that Tanner Boyle and Jose Agilar couldn’t get their acts together in the middle of the infield. Lou Costello and Bud Abbott sure have been entertained by those two working together this season.
Indeed, Dirty. Perhaps this team really could use an influx of Amanda Whurlizers and Kelly Leaks.
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
In all seriousness, I personally think Timmy Lupus is a far better baserunner than Angel Pagan, even though I think he only reached base once. This group could learn a LOT from watching Tanner Boyle’s hustle and never-say-die attitude. And Figueroa is truly our Rudy Stein—good enough until you see a real pitcher. And Alfred Ogilvie could be our frigin cleanup hitter.
The first Bad News Bears is truly one of the most underrated sports movies ever made.
wannybackstra
9/30/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
And I would gladly take Buttermaker as the manager, at least he has an excuse for the nonsense that comes out of his mouth.
And if only the players on this Mets team cared as much as Ahmad did.
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Oh so true….and I vividly remember Buttermaker yelling “Two hands Engleberg, two hands!” If only some of our guys had listened….
metsfan4decades
9/30/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
I won’t pretend to know what it’s like playing ML baseball for 162 games a season but…..
What I want to see start of next year is them coming out of the gate with the attitude of ‘we’re gonna kick ass and take names later’. That’s it, just that simple.
Enough with the excuses, platitudes, double talk, finger pointing, sports psychologists, etc., etc. Just come out with that ‘I’m a MAN’ attitude and get it done.
This brought to you by the female contingency of this blog….
metsgirl31
9/30/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
+1 on ALL points…
trs86
9/30/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, problem is can THIS team do that? Not that they are soft, don’t buy it. Are they too mentally damaged to do it? It seems because of 2007 no matter what they are always waiting for the other shoe to drop when something starts to go wrong. In other words they have to be taught how to win again.
stickguy
9/30/2009-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
are you talking about the players or the fans?
trs86
9/30/2009-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
YES!
dirtysanchez
9/30/2009-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
exactly…i dont think any of them truly recovered from the collapse. We need to clear the air while we have a chance to
trs86
9/30/2009-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, you can’t easily get rid of all the players so get rid of every coach that was there at the time and bring in people who are fresh and confident. Example like Frenchy as a player. He has not experienced the pain and heartache of being a Met the last 3 years.
stickguy
9/30/2009-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
the new coaching staff can take care of that. Same as when Hodges came in and eliminated the hapless loser mentality (jerry = casey I guess!)
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
LOL!!
Nice work as usual from the First Lady of TRDMB!
The first time Jose does an April cha-cha, I hope Murph calmly approaches him and smashes him over the head with a bat.
They all need to follow the attitude of our two true gamers, Johan and KRod. And possibly Murph.
Lift weights and work out all winter, eat drink and sleep baseball, and come to camp healthy and ready to demolish the reputation they have largely NOT worked hard in building for three years now.
stickguy
9/30/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Let him dance. Let them all dance. Let them all rip their shirts off and challenge the other team to a rumble (oh wait, that didn’t work…)
Just save the dances for when they win a game!
TRS is right though. When you live outside of the NY market, you realize that much of the hatred and scorn is some combo of jealousy and just plain anti-NY bias.
Philly fans and media are still obsessed with getting digs in on the Mets. And the phils have more hot dogs and showboaters than the Mets ever did.
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Having lived in several places in the northeast, as well as a decade in Seattle and briefly in SF, of course there is anti-NY bias all over, no doubt, although when it comes to baseball, most of it is targeted towards the Yanks; everyone loved–and many still love–the 69 Mets. No one is jealous of the Mets and our two titles in 48 years and long stretches of mediocrity, outside of maybe Seattle and Texas and a few other places.
I think Jose’s early-season, early-inning dances are childish and embarrassing, and I would imagine his teammates largely think the same thing.
Sure, dance all over the field like the world’s biggest jackass AFTER we clinch the division next year.
And the Phils are about to clinch their third straight postseason—something we have not done in our 48 years of existence.
trs86
9/30/2009-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
It’s not the titles Kingman. With me in the south it’s EVERYTHING in NY. From the Yanks, to the Mets, to the Giants, to the Jets, to the Knicks, to the city itself.
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, to some extent, absolutely, and perhaps in the south, midwest, and great plains the most, due to politics, culture, Wall Street, etc…but sports-wise I think most of the hatred goes to the Yanks.
trs86
9/30/2009-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe, being here in Braves territory maybe I am mistaken but even when I lived in VA they hated the Mets AND the Yankees. There were actually a few Yankee bandwagon fans of course.
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, good point, there are Yankee bandwagoners everywhere….
stickguy
9/30/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Dirty, some good points. And some really bad ones. You ocvered the gamut baby!
I relly don’t see a scenerio where trading beltran will make the team better in 2010. And by beter, I mean tht will win more.
Identity and “grit” are wonderful to have, but it eally is talent that wins ball games over the course of a season.
say no to Molina at fairly large money. And Maine isn’t going to AAA for Misch can stay up.
Beltran is also going to be difficult to move due to the contract. Hard to get real talent back that way.
I do agree that Prince in the 4 hole would be very nice to see. Guess we might just have to squint to make delgado look fatter?
firing the entire coaching staff and getting some professionals in with a clue (and no baggage) will take care of 95% of the mental/emotional issues IMO. 2007 is getting to be a long time ago (in baseball years), and with expected off seaosn turnover, well over 50% of tht team won’t even be around.
dirtysanchez
9/30/2009-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
lol i played this one politically stick lol(call it my baucus deal ;p)
This team needs a face lift. People want to give them one more year and im fine with that but who knows if fielder or gonzalez will get moved this offseason to other clubs and we lose out on a chance to add power in a shallow position for MANY years, all because of a CF who imo has not looked the same since 2006. I dont feel very confortable with Tron being our cleanup hitter next year and i have a strong feeling that is what is going to happen. Due to the size of his contract, there are only certian teams that can afford him(which real mentioned earlier). I think if we get a chance to plug up 1b with the talent of gonz and fielder, ya gotta do it. Also, tron is the most attractive “movable” piece in the core. Thats why i chose him since i doubt omar is going to move wright/reyes/fmart.
trs86
9/30/2009-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
Reyes is the most moveable. He would have tons of teams interested. I think you would find the Beltran market VERY small.
dirtysanchez
9/30/2009-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
well with that contract yea…but i dont think the mets can afford to move reyes. They have nobody even remotely ready to take over that spot in the minors and unless anderson hernandez suddenly learns how to hit and steal bases, our best shot is reyes. For beltran you have several options to replace him with (sullivan/pagan/reed/fmart), plus you win out by plugging up 1b for a few years. I guess i was not very clear with my post, i would only move beltran if it is in a 3 way deal for us to lock down a power/young 1b man for many years.
trs86
9/30/2009-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Quite a few SS on the market such as Succrato(sp). My question with your scenerio is that which is better, Beltran-Murphy, or Pagan-Fielder. That to me is not as easy as it may seem. Especially considering the defense you will give up.
stickguy
9/30/2009-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
Well, the available replacements is a totally different issue than which players are movable.
I agree with TRS that if they want to move a “core” guy, then Jose is the easiest one probably.
and what, you don’t think Tejada is ready to step in and take over?
trs86
9/30/2009-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
Uhm, no to Tejada. However, middle IF is one of the deeper FA classes.
stickguy
9/30/2009-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
that was something along th elines of sarcasm. Not intended to be serious. Guess I should have put in a winky.
trs86
9/30/2009-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
As I said though, to me you give this group one more year to prove themselves and then if that does not work you break it up and trade Beltran, Reyes, dump Castillo, Perez…
stickguy
9/30/2009-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
Keep in mind that after 2010, every one of those guys is on a 1 year deal.
So, whoever is in charge really has to be making important decisions about the future of them with the team (well, not Ollie, that one is easy!)
one of my pet gripes about omar is not being able to project ahead. Well, after 2010 is over, somebody has to.
mrbill
9/30/2009-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
How is Reyes the most moveable? He isn’t worth anything after the year he had.
stickguy
9/30/2009-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
wrong. GMs look at the body of work, and expected performance in the future.
Being injured this year did not help, but he still has a ton of calue, especially if they wait until he proves that the injury is healed.
mrbill
9/30/2009-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
I think Dirty is talking about a trade in the offseason. In the winter Reyes is not moveable. This is the discussion. Not after spring training. When next season starts it will be a different story.
stickguy
9/30/2009-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
He is tradeable in th ewinter. And trades do happen well into the off season (January/February).
“worth nothing” is just silly though. They could easily trade him next week.
“worth not as much”? Well, that I will give you!
trs86
9/30/2009-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly, thus out of Beltran and Reyes: Reyes would be the most movable.
mrbill
9/30/2009-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
“worth not as much� Well, that I will give you!
That’s fair.
trs86
9/30/2009-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Out of Beltran and Reyes? You can forget Wright because the Mets will NEVER trade Wright.
mrbill
9/30/2009-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Duh! Sadly he won’t be traded. Instead they will TRY to build the team around him. Around a guy who has not proven to be the star everyone thinks he is.
trs86
9/30/2009-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
I know I am devestated, LOL. You are not sucking me into this debate again.
I will close with this, EVERY GM in the NL would build around Wright before they built around Beltran or Reyes.
mrbill
9/30/2009-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
I am not saying I want the team built around Beltran or Reyes… NOBODY on the team right now is worth building a team around. NOBODY.
trs86
9/30/2009-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
Then that is just ridiculous. No team does that.
stickguy
9/30/2009-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
Not a star?
if he just continues to play like he did through 2008 (considering this year an annomoly) until he is about 34, he probably goes to the HOF>
Not many guys can say that.
trs86
9/30/2009-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
For sure Wright is to the Mets fans as Schmidt was to the Phillies fans.
trs86
9/30/2009-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
HeHeHe. Seriously, you got to go take the survey on MCblog.
“4. On a separate website from MetsBlog.com, would you like to read more about Matthew Cerrone’s experience as a professional sports blogger, tips on blogging, working in sports media, doing interviews, publicity techniques, etc…”
Oh yes please share…
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
You mentioned something earlier about arrogance?
LOL!!
trs86
9/30/2009-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
If I could post the entire survey we could laugh for days. Please shoot us if we ever become like this.
stickguy
9/30/2009-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
Just saw that the Indians canned Wedge and the entire coaching staff. Way to be proactive.
Take notes Omar, take notes.
And I would actually be perfectly happy to trade Jerry for Wedge!
trs86
9/30/2009-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
I would be much more happy to GIVE Jerry a wedgie.
Kingman 26
9/30/2009-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
LOL…or Wedge him into a frigin suitcase, drive to LaGuardia, go to the curbside check-in, and send it to Mongolia or Albania….
Mr North Jersey
9/30/2009-6:05pm at 6:05 pm (UTC -4)
“I loved Tatis’ hustle but he must be gone next year.”
Truer words were never said.
Nice Post!
knowwhatimsayin
10/1/2009-1:39am at 1:39 am (UTC -4)
Could not disagree more about Reyes and Beltran. I will personally kick Reyes’ can if I see him dance on homeplate next year. He needs to grow up and play ball. Enough of the dancing and handshakes. They haven’t won jack – act like it.
Trading Beltran would be monumentally stupid. We cannot replace his bat and especially his glove. Sure, he made the last out of the NLCS. Big F’ing deal. Get over it.
I don’t think Lackey is the answer either. He’s going to be overpaid and he’s injury-prone. You want to go the risky route, why not look at Ben Sheets who will be much, much cheaper and BETTER so long as he’s healthy.
Here’s my offseason:
1) Trade Holt and Niese to Colorado for Brad Hawpe.
2) Sign Hank Blalock for one year to play first.
3) Trade Fernando Martinez to Pittsburgh for Ryan Doumit and Zack Duke.
4) Sign Ben Sheets for two years.
Santana
Sheets
Maine
Duke
Pelf/Ollie
Reyes
Castillo
Wright
Beltran
Hawpe
Blalock
Doumit
Francoeur
CaseStreet
10/1/2009-2:11am at 2:11 am (UTC -4)
Omar, ju crasee!
why trade for Hawpe when there’s a plethora of LFers? Plus you can’t trust those Rockie players; never know what ur gonna get.
blalock – IDK about
F-Mart aint getting Doumit or Duke, and def not both.
how bout we see Sheets pitch a ball b4 u give him 2 years.
Overall, I like the intent but the execution needs improvement.
trs86
10/1/2009-8:53am at 8:53 am (UTC -4)
Agreed!
nomenclaturist
10/11/2009-12:48am at 12:48 am (UTC -4)
I just wanted to stop by and support your idea of trading Carlos Beltran if a good enough package is offered in return. I wouldn’t limit to a specific player, but if the Mets could get one good young starting pitcher, one decent young power-hitting left fielder, and most of Beltran’s salary freed up for free agent acquisitions, then I think it would be worth it.
The Mets need to get younger and hungrier, and they need some kind of trade bait. Other than Wright, Reyes and Santana, Beltran is the only Met with any kind of trade value, and I just can’t see parting with Wright, Reyes or Santana.