Let me start off by saying I am NOT a huge Daniel Murphy fan and given the chance I would LOVE to replace him. That said I would NOT give the likes of Adam LaRoche more than 2 years (Braves are apparently going to give him 2), or Nick Johnson more than 1 with an option (talk about having zero power) plus his injury concerns.
There are obviously a few other options, Russell Branyan for one but one intriguing (and realistic) option to me is Mr. Jorge Cantu. I think we should look at Jorge Cantu as a platoon partner for Murphy. The fish are shopping him, he only made 3.5 million this year and posted a .892 OPS vs. lefties. Not a great fielder by any stretch but his price and offensive output (and ability to fill in at 3b) would interest me in a salary dump like deal (which the Marlins apparently are considering). Cantu’s .892 + Murphy vs. righties (where I assume he will improve in 2010) would actually give us at LEAST league average production at 1b for only about 4 million bucks and no long term commitment.
67 comments
trs86
10/20/2009-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
I have considered it myself. What the Marlins do with Cantu and Uggla.
2 things, one for and one against us.
Against us: Will they trade Cantu in division when they are expectint to compete. This is different from a firesell year.
For us: They have to realize that having an IF with Uggla and Cantu on one side is doomed to fail defensively.
GravediggerHebner
10/20/2009-1:40pm at 1:40 pm (UTC -4)
Cantu is an interesting name. The Marlins and Mets have demonstrated over the years that they are not afraid to trade within the division with each other.
Cantu may be the answer to a question I asked in the Konerko thread: “Will they (the White Sox) be able to make up for the loss of Konerko with that $6 mil (in salary relief through trading Konerko to the Mets), and if so why don’t the Mets just get whoever that guy is?”
trs86
10/20/2009-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
True.
I can’t recall any trades between the two when the Marlins were expected to compete the following year. Can you help me out?
GravediggerHebner
10/20/2009-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know enough about the Marlins and their annual expectations to answer that. What I would say is they would only consider trading someone if they had a cheaper replacement readily available. Perhaps it’s Gaby Sanchez (or some other Marlin minor leauger who may come through for them) time.
Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera were untested rookies in their 2003 WS year, so they can both compete and start a rookie or two.
metro
10/20/2009-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
They are going to trade or non-tender at least 1 of Cantu, Uggla and Ross, their “competitive-ness” doesn’t stop their money flow issues. Here is one quote “Florida also is considering whether to bring back Jorge Cantu, who also can play first base. Cantu made $3.5 million this past season, and he is in his arbitration years. Many expect the Marlins to at least explore trading Cantu, even if he winds up returning. “
trs86
10/20/2009-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
As I said in my post, I am almost certain either Uggla or Cantu will go because of money and defense. However, I am not so sure they will be willing to trade in division when they are EXPECTING to compete the next year. I don’t think they were expecting to compete when they traded us LoDuca or Delgado. But maybe you could make a case for the Lindstrom-Owens trade? But not sure those pieces at the time were big enough to matter. Perhaps you could see a Pagan-Cantu trade?
CaseStreet
10/20/2009-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
Is Cantu an upgrade over Tatis or Sheffield?
trs86
10/20/2009-2:40pm at 2:40 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, he for sure is an upgrade over Sheff if nothing else because of health and he is an upgrade over Tatis because of his power production in my opinion.
metro
10/20/2009-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
As a righty platoon partner for Murphy he absolutely is. First of all Sheffield can’t play 1b so he isn’t an option for this role, Sheffield also a) was injured about 5 times this year and b) likely was shutdown due to his “crybaby” act more than just being hurt. As for Tatis, Tatis only posted an .822 OPS vs. lefties this year vs. Cantu’s .898 and in 2008 Tatis posted only .809, Cantu the last 2 seasons (.869 and .898), Cantu also will not cost significantly more than Tatis (Tatis made 1.7 this year and will likely be looking at around 2.5-3.0 if we wanted him to return, with his projected arbitration number (not that we will go that route) closer to 4 million. Cantu is also 27 years old coming off a season where he put up 100 rbi (yes a team stat) but I have a hard time believing over a full season Tatis would put up 16 homers 42 doubles and 100 rbi.
metro
10/20/2009-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
Cantu also battled a wrist issue and illness all year and still put up those numbers, 2008 he hit 29 homers 41 doubles suggesting he has it in him to be very solid for us.
trs86
10/20/2009-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
While I agree, I would not see Tatis getting more than a 20% raise over his current contract.
metro
10/20/2009-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
I’d still take Cantu at 3.5 over Tatis at 2+. One guy has proven over the past 2 years that at WORST he would a decent every day 1b (nothing special) and at best a GREAT platoon bat to go with Murphy, the other (whom I do like) is 34 years old, doesn’t hit lefties especially well and expecting him to put up 42 doubles and 16 homers or 29 homers 41 doubles is pretty ridiculous.
CaseStreet
10/20/2009-3:47pm at 3:47 pm (UTC -4)
thanks for the explanation
wannybackstra
10/20/2009-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
Cantu would be a solid addition to the team not only as a RH power bat at 1B but also as insurance at 3B. Tatis is not an every day player if Wright gets hurt or if Murphy does not produce to expectations.
After last season we should know that we need someone capable of filling in regularly everywhere.
Tatis could still have a role as a backup all over the field and as a pinch hitter. I don’t think Cantu’s acquisition would mean the end for Fernando — he can still be a 5th outfielder, PH and spare infielder.
The biggest question is whether Cantu would be accepting of a less than regular role, particularly if Murphy performs well.
stickguy
10/20/2009-4:51pm at 4:51 pm (UTC -4)
cantu isn’t a FA. He doesn’t really have much choice. But, you gotta figure that if he comes on board and starts raking, he can certainly win the job outright.
also interesting, Cantu has played 2B in the majors (not in the last few years, but he has done it). Not bad to have that flexibility, though I doubt he is going to make anyone forget joe morgan (or jeff kent!)
Cantu is interesting. So was Konerko. Even Garko make syou think.
The real problem with the guys under contract is, what will the teams require back to trade them? And, what is the Mets FO willing to give, especially if they are still married to Murphy?
It is certainly easier to speculate on FAs. there, you are only guessing how much money it will take!
GravediggerHebner
10/20/2009-5:42pm at 5:42 pm (UTC -4)
I just read an article in which the author inserted somewhat as an afterthought the phrase “in all likelihood the team will bring back Alex Cora.”
I am wondering what TRDMB readers think about that.
I think re-signing Alex Cora is not necessarily a horrible idea, but I also consider it an incredibly low priority move that can sit on a back burner for months. So I guess therefore it’ll be the first thing Omar does? What do you guys think?
stickguy
10/20/2009-5:45pm at 5:45 pm (UTC -4)
wait. also he needs to take a pay cut. If possible, find someone with some more power 9although that might be hpoing for too much).
also wait to see how the team shakes out. Do they need a 2B that can cover SS in a pinch, or a SS that can wing it at 2B?
wannybackstra
10/20/2009-6:09pm at 6:09 pm (UTC -4)
Cora is okay but there are no shortage of middle infielders available who have proven they are more capable of playing everyday if need be, i.e. Lopez, Scutaro, Loretta, Carroll, etc.
metsfan4decades
10/20/2009-10:26pm at 10:26 pm (UTC -4)
I like the Lopez idea. If I remember correctly, he can play every position with the exception of center, catcher and pitcher. Wonder what it would take to get him? And I think he’s only 29.
trs86
10/20/2009-10:57pm at 10:57 pm (UTC -4)
A multi-year deal? He is a FA and one would think he can get at least a 2 year deal as long as he is not looking for 5M+ a year. I would still be willing to go 2/8, the guy is good and gives tons of insurance.
CaseStreet
10/20/2009-6:40pm at 6:40 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t know. Part of me says Cora plays the game right, etc. and we might need him if Reyes doesn’t come back healthy.
The other part of me thinks having a guy like Cora or A. Hern wastes a bat on the bench.
For example, the Phils have Bruntlett who BU 2B and SS but for the past few years he has also played every other position on the field besides Catcher. Sounds like Tatis.
Then they have Greg Dobbs that backs up the corner infield but has also backed up the corner outfield positions.
Ben Francisco is their main outfield backup and have Dobbs and Bruntlett that pick up the rest of outfield duties.
Stairs has no position other than big bopper.
If the Mets tried something similar, I’d see:
Tatis as MI/CIF/COF
Murphy or Evans as CIF/COF
Pagan as OF
Sheff as the slugger.
trs86
10/20/2009-8:52pm at 8:52 pm (UTC -4)
No way does Sheff comeback in a Stairs type role. He will find a job at least as a part time DH and get more AB’s. If you get Sheff back here, it’s as our LF. Still want Sheff? Besides, he will cost quite a bit as well. Much more than the league minimum we paid this year.
Bruntlett also is a terrible hitter that would make AHern look like an all-star hitter. There are a lot of things we should look to the Phillies for, but their horrible, terrible, near league worst bench is not one of them.
CaseStreet
10/20/2009-9:03pm at 9:03 pm (UTC -4)
still, I find the concept interesting. They have 1 instead of 2 back up outfielders, their back up middle infielder is a super utility man while their back-up corner infielder is a utility man. Then they have a DH in Stairs.
I really haven’t seen something like that, though I haven’t been paying attention.
trs86
10/20/2009-9:21pm at 9:21 pm (UTC -4)
It’s not really that unusual. They did it because of that is who they have. They would have traded benches with us in a heart beat. But that being said… I think it will be a combination of
Santos/LH Catcher, Pagan, Cora, Tatis/replacement, Carter/replacement. Takes care of
C ?
1B with Carter and Tatis
2B with Cora and Tatis
SS with Cora and Tatis
3B with Tatis
LF with Pagan, Carter, Tatis
CF Pagan
RF Pagan, Carter Tatis.
wannybackstra
10/20/2009-6:38pm at 6:38 pm (UTC -4)
On the subject of 1B, Keith Law has been scouting the AFL and had the following to say about Mets’ prospects:
Ike Davis of the New York Mets looks much better now than he did as an amateur, although all he really showed this week is that he can hit a fastball and can’t make the adjustment (yet) to anything else. He is in much better shape overall — less jacked up and more athletic — and showed it at first base as well. He has legitimately plus pull power and has some bat speed, although he loads his hands pretty far down and has a lot of excess movement, all of which costs him a little time. He looked bad against all off-speed pitches but just murdered fastballs.
A few days ago he also saw Mejia and said:
While the postseason rolls on at the major league level, I was able to spend the past week at the Arizona Fall League getting a close look at some of the top prospects in the minor leagues.
The most impressive arm so far has been Jenrry Mejia of the New York Mets, who was on a short pitch count but showed two above-average pitches and a chance for a third. Mejia’s fastball sat from 93-96 mph and touched 98, he also threw a plus changeup that looked more like a two-seamer at 85-87. It should be noted, though: the latter pitch was a little inconsistent. His curveball was even less consistent, but he threw one very sharp one for a called third strike at 78 mph, with good depth and clear two-plane break. He comes from a slot just below 3/4 and needs to focus on staying on top of the ball. He missed a chunk of the second half with a strained finger, which could impact how he grips the ball even now. He has a strong, thick build. The velocity comes easily, and if his command is better than what he showed on Wednesday and he can snap off that good curveball more frequently, he’s a potential No. 1 or No. 2 starter.
trs86
10/20/2009-8:53pm at 8:53 pm (UTC -4)
Reported the story on Mejia couple of days ago.
CaseStreet
10/20/2009-6:46pm at 6:46 pm (UTC -4)
Grave, you gonna do any Mets in the AFL updates?
whataputz
10/20/2009-10:41pm at 10:41 pm (UTC -4)
Do you guys realize that the World Series is going to be Yankees vs. Philly….i mean the Yankees are going to be playing the Phillies for the World Series. The Yankees (most likely) or the Phillies will win the world Series! This is just terrible. I can’t even begin to come up with possible Mets 1b solutions. Its bad enough we have to watch the Mets every season, but c’mon! Can this season get any worse! I knows this adds absolutely nothing to this discussion, but I just thought I’d share my thoughts.
metsfan4decades
10/20/2009-10:55pm at 10:55 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, just depressing. Worst baseball nightmare fully realized. As if it wasn’t hard enough being a Met fan this past season. The bad karma just carries right into the post season.
And isn’t this the most atrocious umpiring you’ve ever seen? Three blown calls in one inning – one inning, not even three blown calls in the game itself. What the heck is up with that?
trs86
10/20/2009-10:58pm at 10:58 pm (UTC -4)
Eh, just means baseball season ends early. I will still be pulling for ABP.
gategem
10/20/2009-11:38pm at 11:38 pm (UTC -4)
Did you notice that Kazmir’s fastball was sitting at 91mph and his slider was no longer impressive? Right now he is basically a mid to back end of the rotation starter. I was also wondering why in what was the most important game of the season did the man Fat Mike call the best manager in baseball (Michael Lorri Scioscia) start Kazmir? Is John Lackey that bad on 3 days rest? Did Lackey beg out of the assignment? Was he ever asked?
GravediggerHebner
10/20/2009-11:48pm at 11:48 pm (UTC -4)
I’m guessing it has to do with Kazmir’s career ERA of 2.67 and 1.266 WHIP in 88 innings against they Yankees overall, and the fact that those numbers in Yankee stadium are 5.04 and 1.560.
Unfortunately for Lorri, the Angels home games are not in the Tropicana Dome.
Also it’s a very small sample but Lackey career on 3 days rest is 1-1 4.82 ERA 1.714 WHIP (in 2 starts).
trs86
10/20/2009-11:06pm at 11:06 pm (UTC -4)
After reading a Mets thread on MLBTR, I wonder if more Mets fans do not post here because they are intimidated by our basic understanding of baseball and lack of complete irrational ignorance?
Kingman 26
10/20/2009-11:16pm at 11:16 pm (UTC -4)
Complete irrational ignorance is a popular thing these days…
trs86
10/20/2009-11:19pm at 11:19 pm (UTC -4)
Now I am on Amazin Avenue and we should trade for Nolasco and sign Holliday and trade for Maine for Gerut.
fongy2
10/20/2009-11:24pm at 11:24 pm (UTC -4)
Jody Gerut?…Huh?!
trs86
10/20/2009-11:26pm at 11:26 pm (UTC -4)
Yup, he’s got crazy BABIP. In other words the stat for luck. For some reason stat guys actually think that if a guy has a low average here that he is unlucky instead of untalented. LOL.
metsfan4decades
10/20/2009-11:26pm at 11:26 pm (UTC -4)
LOL – uh, Okay…
I just read that Met thread too on MLBTR. There are some Met fans out there with wild ideas.
trs86
10/20/2009-11:29pm at 11:29 pm (UTC -4)
Amazing. It’s like they have no sense of reality. There are some who think that we should sign Harden, trade for Halladay and sign a hitter. LOL. Then cut Murphy and let Carter start.
metsfan4decades
10/20/2009-11:33pm at 11:33 pm (UTC -4)
Carter….
I read that and thought to myself, this cannot be a Met fan making that statement.
Then again, I’m reading on a few sites that Ike Davis should be the 2010 starting 1st baseman. He has what? 1 year in the minors? That is just unrealistic, in my mind. Or maybe it’s desperation?
trs86
10/20/2009-11:20pm at 11:20 pm (UTC -4)
Hey was that a knock at me? I may be irrational but I am not ignorant normally.
Kingman 26
10/20/2009-11:26pm at 11:26 pm (UTC -4)
Oh come on, of course not!
I just was joking around…or trying to!
trs86
10/20/2009-11:28pm at 11:28 pm (UTC -4)
Kingman, so was I. LOL.
fongy2
10/20/2009-11:22pm at 11:22 pm (UTC -4)
Mes think both!…And then some!
GravediggerHebner
10/20/2009-11:22pm at 11:22 pm (UTC -4)
There are solid thoughtful comments there but you have to sift through a lot of sand to find them.
I made the mistake of asking a question in one of their comment threads once. Basically 80% of the responses were insults and 20% were people who tried to provide info.
It’s unfortunate that so many people use the anonymity of the internet to be jerks but that’s life.
On that note, you guys suck and your site is as stupid as you are.
trs86
10/20/2009-11:25pm at 11:25 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks, I am off to try and find out what we have to give for Haren, Nolasco, Ervin Santana, and Guthrie to be our new 2-5.
GravediggerHebner
10/20/2009-11:31pm at 11:31 pm (UTC -4)
Let’s see:
Jeremy Reed & Eddie Kunz for Haren;
Anderson Hernandez & Elmer Dessens for Nolasco;
Tobi Stoner for Santana and
Nelson Figueroa for Guthrie.
fongy2
10/20/2009-11:35pm at 11:35 pm (UTC -4)
Whoa, slow down! That package for Haren seems a little steep!
GravediggerHebner
10/20/2009-11:37pm at 11:37 pm (UTC -4)
You’re right, I guess Kunz is still technically a prospect. Can we get Humber back and include him instead?
fongy2
10/20/2009-11:42pm at 11:42 pm (UTC -4)
I was thinking maybe Sean Green.
metsfan4decades
10/20/2009-11:28pm at 11:28 pm (UTC -4)
HAHAHA – need the chuckle watching this Yankee/Angel game tonight…
fongy2
10/20/2009-11:30pm at 11:30 pm (UTC -4)
Anyone else think Chone Figgins has cost himself alot of money
during this post season?
metsfan4decades
10/20/2009-11:34pm at 11:34 pm (UTC -4)
The Angel fans over at Halos Heaven certainly think so….
fongy2
10/20/2009-11:36pm at 11:36 pm (UTC -4)
one bad post season after another.
usually looks overmatched against good pitching.
fongy2
10/20/2009-11:27pm at 11:27 pm (UTC -4)
God, do I ever hate the yankees!
metsfan4decades
10/20/2009-11:30pm at 11:30 pm (UTC -4)
+1. This game is pathetic.
As much as it pains me to say this, it’s the first year in a long while I remember the most talented teams actually being the last ones left standing…
fongy2
10/20/2009-11:33pm at 11:33 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah but (here comes my usual yankee knock), its alot easier to have the
most talent when your payroll is 200 million dollars.
GravediggerHebner
10/20/2009-11:36pm at 11:36 pm (UTC -4)
Well yes but you still have to be able to identify that talent. Just ask the team with the highest payroll in the NL how hard that is.
fongy2
10/20/2009-11:39pm at 11:39 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah but give us another 60 mil to spend and health and……
well you know!
b/t/w, good luck on those yankee contracts in a couple/three
more yrs, especially arod,cc,aj and whatever they resign jeter
for.
GravediggerHebner
10/20/2009-11:54pm at 11:54 pm (UTC -4)
I can only guess that at some point during all these negotiations Cashman thinks “thank God I’m not going to be around when these contracts are up.”
gategem
10/21/2009-12:05am at 12:05 am (UTC -4)
Just think that back in the 1980’s Steinbrenner threatened to move the team to New Jersey because of poor attendance. After “Stick†Michael built those teams that won all those titles in the mid ‘90’s Steinbrenner’s marketing team did an outstanding job of culling the vast resources available in the New York market as well as throughout the country and international market so now they can afford the extreme payroll.
fongy2
10/20/2009-11:41pm at 11:41 pm (UTC -4)
You’re right though about certain players like Tex and Swisher
who are good chemistry guys and true gamers.
Its certainly taken the pressure off of ARoid.
GravediggerHebner
10/20/2009-11:53pm at 11:53 pm (UTC -4)
I think back to early last offseason when I read so many strong opinions about how Tex was not worth anything close to his asking price and that it was insane for any team to pay that much for a 1B when that position was “so deep in talent” throughout the league.
Not suggesting you said that Fongy, I just read it A LOT about 11 months ago.
CaseStreet
10/20/2009-11:55pm at 11:55 pm (UTC -4)
tex4mets
oh well, at least we got Murphy
GravediggerHebner
10/21/2009-12:00am at 12:00 am (UTC -4)
Oh yes I remember clicking on that a few times.
Kudos to you for being out front, loud and proud on that cause that fell on deaf ears (perhaps the Mannyacs were drowning you out).
trs86
10/20/2009-11:30pm at 11:30 pm (UTC -4)
Good night guys, between reading that garbage and watching the Yankees game my eyes are bleeding.
metsfan4decades
10/20/2009-11:39pm at 11:39 pm (UTC -4)
Bah….game over.
I can’t believe I’m wasting some much needed sleep here torturing myself with these games. Last night’s blown save in the 9th by the Dodgers.
I can’t wait until the 2010 season starts.