At first it seemed a given that the Mets should part ways with Brian Schneider. Schneider has been a disappointment both offensively and defensively. He has been hampered by injury and had his worst season in his major league career. The last few days I have been combing the FA list with an extra fine tooth comb as well as even dipping down into other teams prospect list looking for a LH Santos. The best I could come up with was a guy named John Jaso a 26 year old LH catcher in the Rays organization. I went over to Drays Bay (look towards the bottom of the comment section) to get the fans perspective about this guy. What I found was mixed results.
“Used to be a hitter who could pretend to catch. Last year, his catching seemed to improve a hair from horrible to sort of passable, but his bat disappeared. When at his best, he had great plate discipline and decent power, but unless he bounces back next year, I think he’s played his way out of the Rays’ future plans.”
“He continues to walk a great deal and does not strike out much. In fact, in his 331 ABs in 2009 he had 46 BBs and 49 Ks. What seemed to disappear was his power with just 5 home runs & 14 doubles last season while he generally hit 12-15 HRs and 20-25 doubles in previous years.
I know his defensive reputation is poor, but as last year was the first time his OPS was under .800 (although his OBP was .362) I wonder whether he might still be considered a candidate for a backup. I know that role is usually reserved for defensive catchers, but a contact hitter who can simulate a catcher might still have some value.
These are really just questions as I have no idea how the Rays view him or what his season really was like in Durham beyond rather simple numbers.”
But does adding another guy like Jaso who has never handled a major league staff help the Mets?
So what is the case for Schneider? The guy is desperate for a job and was playing for a contract. What struck me, and as I think back on it may have earned him a chance to compete, was how willing he was to give up playing time and his knowledge to Thole. Does anyone expect Santos to continue to improve or to even put up numbers similar to this season as a full time catcher next year? I know I am willing to give him a chance but I do not have high expectations. Chances are mid-season Thole will be ready (more than likely ready or not here I come). So what would be the harm in bringing back Schneider on a minor league contract to hold down the backup role until Thole is ready? Allow Thole to compete with Schneider for the job out of spring training. To me this is one less hole the Mets have to worry about and is a much better solution than losing prospects on another question mark or spending cash and possible years on guys like Molina.
Let the Schneider hate begin.
45 comments
Kingman 26
10/21/2009-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think it is Schneider hate, the guy just is not particularly good at anything.
He can’t hit much, doesn’t walk, has very little power, is slow, has a so-so arm, isn’t that great at blocking the plate, isn’t very aggressive—I mean, he is the picture of mediocrity and career backup in every possible way at this point.
Who knows if Santos will keep it up, but from what we saw last year, and considering that Santos hits righties and Thole hits lefties, and considering how cheap they are and that they will bat 8th, I say start with this platoon.
I don’t want Schneider; he is the past, as is Molina.
trs86
10/21/2009-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think Thole showed he is ready. His plate skills appeared to be very lacking. I think it’s a 100% chance that we have to at least bring in a LH guy to compete with Thole for the starting job. I am not saying ditch Santos. In fact, as I said, I think he has earned a chance to prove himself. I am saying as a backup catcher I don’t see that much on the market better than Schneider if he would come on a league minimum minor league contract.
wannybackstra
10/21/2009-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
I’m not saying Thole is reayd to be a major league receiver. But I will say that 127 innings is not enough to have made that judgment either way.
trs86
10/21/2009-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
I think we can say that he is not ready based on what we saw. But perhaps you have a point. Regardless, I don’t think you can give him a job on the MLB level yet. As I said, my hope is that they bring in a cheap LH veteran to compete with Thole and see what happens.
stickguy
10/21/2009-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
I pesonally would like to see schnieder go. Not because he is part of some great contamination that needs tobe removed (although getting rid of a lot of guys may feel cathartic), but as noted, he really isn’t any good. And in theory, he will be replaced by someone better.
and for Knog, I feel the same way about castillo.
I don’t profess to have analyzed every available FA type (or who might be tradeable for), but sure, if there really is noone, and he will come back on a MiL deal, he can have a chance to win the job.
I think Thole and Davis should 100% start the year in the minors. They both have stuff to work on. I also feel they cold both be ready during the season (if they crank it in AAA), and the Mets probably shouldn’t lock up the positions in front of them for multiable years.
For catcher, if they can find a MiL guy (like Morales in Minn) that really looks like he could be a solid starter, that is a different story. Grab that guy.
But if whoever they get is going to be stop-gap/platoon type, then go with major league experience and solid catching skills.
trs86
10/21/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think Morales is going anywhere until they lock up Mauer and it now appears he will be the opening day backup. So the price could be pretty high. There is just not much out there. If Barjas was to come cheap, he is a better option. If not, I am stuck. I have already wasted a lot of time looking for a cheap solution. I agree that Thole did not appear ready but I still think you give him the token “compete for the job” role in ST and then most likely send him to AAA.
metsfan4decades
10/21/2009-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, thanks for doing the research for me
….
I was wondering if maybe there was a ML ready catcher in the minors in some organization that was being blocked. But then thought probably not, since not many seem to have good ML catchers so that person would have been up and/or traded by now.
I’m not exactly opposed to Schneider holding a spot for Thole. I don’t think Thole is ML ready come April but it was such a small sample size – who can say? I guess the real question – if there are no catchers out there worth the $$, even for a year – is, who would be better come opening day? Thole and his inexperience or Schneider. Because I think it’s a foregone conclusion that Santos will remain as back up…..
CaseStreet
10/21/2009-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
I usually agree with you stick but not this time. I do agree about the “guy who squats for a living”. It’s your other comments I take issue with.
1. Support Your Second Baseman. Castillo proved he’s worth his contract. He doesn’t have much range but he also doesn’t commit many errors, despite the Yankees debocle. On the other hand, Castillo’s ability to get on base and up the pitch count is pretty valuable. I’d prefer to have Lopez but I’m content with Castillo.
2. Ike Davis. The Mets should do whats best for the Mets not for some prospect who had one good season and may never see the inside of the Mets Clubhouse. I say get the best guy available, if it takes a long term deal, so what. Even if Davis does “crank it”, we can trade him or stash him in AAA in case of injury, etc.
Otherwise, I agree.
wannybackstra
10/21/2009-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
Davis can also play the outfield.
CaseStreet
10/21/2009-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
still doesn’t mean we shouldn’t sign a LFer long term.
GravediggerHebner
10/21/2009-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t see how it will be feasible for the Mets to get a firm long term answer to their catching situation this off season.
Thole is someone that I think it’s fair to say both the organization and it’s fans have long term hopes for, but clearly the time is not now.
Based on past ML history, it is unlikely that Santos will prove to be a satisfactory long term answer as a primary player at the position.
So we have a situation in which the team has multiple holes to fill, and no ideal long term answers for the hole at C.
I believe the team should enact an interim solution at C for 2010, one that does not negatively impact the budget or the roster long term.
In that vein, I think the Mets can get “good enough aka not very good” production by inserting any one of the multitude of “AAAA” catchers that exist either in their own system or someone elses.
Think Robinson Cancel, Gustavo Molina, Raul Casanova. Someone of that ilk who is defensively sound enough to not be a complete liability can work in tandem with Santos next season while other pieces are put in place at other positions and the C situation can be further examined with more options becoming clearer as the season progresses.
A lot of teams win a lot of games without perennial All-Star studs at C. While it’s nice to have one, the Mets are not in a good position to get one right now and I’m willing to wait while the team concentrates on other needs.
CaseStreet
10/21/2009-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
+1
I’ll start the Mauer4Mets campaign, once the Twins announce they can’t extend him.
GravediggerHebner
10/21/2009-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
The good news is Posada’s contract is a year longer than Mauer’s.
The bad news is the AL has the DH.
CaseStreet
10/21/2009-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
I’m hoping the Yankees sign Vlad for DH.
wannybackstra
10/21/2009-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
I’d really prefer someone who could get the best out of Ollie, Maine and Pelfrey whether that someone can hit or not.
That’s why a Jose Molima type would be just fine by me. If they decide that they need more offense at the position, Thole is a phone call away.
GravediggerHebner
10/21/2009-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
Regarding Perez alone (of the 3, he is the 1 the club “has the most invested in”) he did much better with Schneider than he did with Castro or Santos based on something called “sOPS+” which with Schneider was 102, with Santos was 149 and with Castro was 179.
Also his K/BB ratio and BAA were best with Schneider.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=perezol01&year=2009&t=p#catch
trs86
10/21/2009-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Great info.
As I said in the post, one thing that sold me on giving him a minor league contract was his work with Thole. Very unselfish considering he was playing for a contract next year.
wannybackstra
10/21/2009-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
excellent stuff. the year before the schneider/perez combo teamed for a good year: .214 .327 .358 in batting against while Ollie suffered pretty bad with anyone else behind the dish.
Is this ammo against the argument that Schneider is not good defensively?
If I have time later, I’ll look at some more.
Thanks for finding this, Grave. I never noticed the stat category.
trs86
10/21/2009-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
I just don’t think he was as good mobility wise as we expected. How much of that was due to injury? I have no idea.
GravediggerHebner
10/21/2009-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
The link below is the same info but for Perez’ whole career, not just 2009.
Of the 7 C who have caught at least 10 games for Perez, Ollie has had the best stats with Jason Kendall behind the dish.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=perezol01&year=Career&t=p#catch
wannybackstra
10/21/2009-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
Believe it or not, John Maine pitched his best with Deluca but has also pitched well with both Castro and Schneider.
But Maine is the type of pitcher for whom the stats always look good despite the results. He’s never been hittable. He’s just walkable and prone to bad innings at times.
Pelfrey has pitched the majority of his games to Schneider so there really is no basis for comparison.
CaseStreet
10/21/2009-1:53pm at 1:53 pm (UTC -4)
do you mean LoDuca?
wannybackstra
10/21/2009-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
I need some sleep.
CaseStreet
10/21/2009-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
Wouldn’t Cancel or someone else in the minors give us the same production as Schneider?
Sure if Schneider takes ML minimum, why not? But do we really think he’ll take minimum after being paid $5M? I’m thinking $1-$2M is what he’ll get, def not league minimum.
trs86
10/21/2009-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
Not sure a guy like Schneider can get 1-2 M after the season he had. If so then no he does not fit. But finding a LH catcher is not an easy task.
GravediggerHebner
10/21/2009-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
On other subjects we’ve had some pretty intense discussions about “handedness.”
For the Mets and their 2010 catching tandem, is it mandatory that they have 1 RH and 1 LH hitting C?
The Angels do OK with 2 RH ones.
trs86
10/21/2009-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
No not mandatory at all. But I think they will look for one. Interesting enough, Santos for his career in the majors has hit RH pitchers MUCH better and slightly better in the minors. But, Jerry is still the manager.
GravediggerHebner
10/21/2009-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps we need to get Jerry some Prilosec so his gut starts telling him some new/different things.
Slavish adherence to stats is not what I would prefer, but at least some acknowledgment of them in the decision making process would be nice.
Maybe (long shot I know) a bright spot to the coaching staff turnover that did occur is that next year’s bench coach will A. be more in touch with such info and B. be more persuasive when conveying it to the manager.
Of course one wonders what, if anything, Jerry conveyed to Willie when the former was bench coach?
trs86
10/21/2009-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
If it’s Shines, I don’t see how anything will be much different.
stickguy
10/21/2009-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
sorry case, but Luis brings very little to the table, and I have no real faith that he will even maintain his 2009 level of production next year. If they can move him in a decent deal, they should.
And, I certainly hope a 2B with no range that doesn’t usually get to balls doesn’t make a lot of errors, but he still had some bad ones. Not to mention the times he couldn’t be bothered to go and cover 2B when he didn’t figure the throw was coming there.
I know you love castillo, so I guess we can agree to disagree! although it would be great if someone could find an objective ranking of 2B… curious to think where he would land on it.
as to blocking prospects, fine as long as you are getting top talent. then you can either trade the blockee, or move to another position. or give them more seasoning. But as always, it will cost more, and limit resources to be deployed elsewhere.
stickguy
10/21/2009-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
best I could find was cbssportsline initial 2010 rankings (nothing like planning ahead! but I guess leagues have keepers..)
anyway, slappy was ranked 23, right in between mark ellis. And keep in mind, SBs are valued much higher in fantasy than real ball, while D is ingnored in fantasy. His SB% was 77%, just slightly below the 80% which IIRC has been proven to be the break even point.
stickguy
10/21/2009-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
that was supposed to be between ellis and Chris Getz of the WS. Not exactly world beater territory.
trs86
10/21/2009-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
Is that for fantasy league? Are we seriously judging him by fantasy stats? Lets see if we can’t find something legitimate.
stickguy
10/21/2009-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
I looked. that’s why I said it was the best I could find. Yo uprobably know a lot more places to look.
but, fantasy rankings do point out guys that don’t have much production.
trs86
10/21/2009-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
But it over values power stats.
CaseStreet
10/21/2009-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t necessarily love Castillo, it’s just that I think he got a bad rap bc. of 08 and seems to be the scapegoat bc of that, his contract and Omar not bringing the Kings of Gritty (Eckstein and Hudson).
People forget that he was coming off of double knee surgery which def had an effect on his off season training and prob lingered throught out the season.
Also when people look at Castillo’s contract it is taken out of context. Castillo played well for us in 06 after Valentin went down. Then during the off season, Omar tried bringing in Eckstein but he didn’t want to play 2B or something and there were rumors about Houston and Castillo hooking up so Omar didn’t want to have A. Hern or Gotay as the starter so he pulled the trigger on Castillo. Whether he gave Castillo too many years or too much money, IDK. It’s not Castillo’s fault that he benefited from the circumstances.
tnx for listening
CaseStreet
10/21/2009-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
you could look at his WAR value. He’s near the bottom of all qualified 2B but better than Eckstein.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=6&season=2009&month=0
CaseStreet
10/21/2009-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
and mostly it has to do with his poor range.
stickguy
10/21/2009-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
I think you just helped make my point. Thanks!
Oh, and I can honestly say I never wanted anything to do with Eckstein.
CaseStreet
10/21/2009-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
lol, ur welcome. But I think you proved my point that after 07 Omar’s hands were, in some ways, tied.
And after 08, he couldn’t move Castillo bc of poor performance.
Maybe if Omar can get something in return and sign Lopez while not increasing the salary much, I’m all for it.
Heck, I was advocating last year to sign Lopez to backup Castillo and Reyes.
stickguy
10/21/2009-3:16pm at 3:16 pm (UTC -4)
well, if Omar was any good, his hands weren’t tied. There were plenty of guys he could have gotten on a 1 year deal to tied them over at 2B. But common, 4 years?
this is really the same logic that said that last off seaosn, once Lowe signed, he “had” to sign Ollie.
trs86
10/21/2009-3:18pm at 3:18 pm (UTC -4)
Who are those 1 year guys? Tide them over for who? Hudson? Like he was supposed to know Lopez would be available and even as good as he is now?
trs86
10/21/2009-3:19pm at 3:19 pm (UTC -4)
After 2007 Lopez line was this : .245 .308 .352 .659
trs86
10/21/2009-2:34pm at 2:34 pm (UTC -4)
Castillo as 3rd behind Zorbist and Utley in OBP. What more do we want him to do? He will never be a power hitter and will never be excellent in the field. But to think you can just easily replace a guy who gets on base that frequently is faulty at best.
trs86
10/21/2009-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
One other thing to look at with Castillo is some of the players around him on the list. Example, Skip Schumaker who I thought had a very good season for a 2B was ranked below Castillo. Nick Punto was also ranked below Castillo as did Mark Ellis. What we also don’t know is how much instability at 1B hurt Castillo. I can’t look at these defensive stats without noticing last year with Delgado and much less healthy Castillo defensive stats rated MUCH better. I don’t see it as possible that he was worse this year healthy defensively than he was last year injured.