From 1918-1948 they were above .500 once. 78-76 in 1932, finishing 4th. In an 8-team league, that was the only time in 31 years they finished above 5th place. Think about that. You are 7 and you start watching your team in 1918, and you are 38 years old before they finish 3rd and 39 when they win an NL title in 1950. And then they miss the postseason another 25 years in a row, without fail. So, after starting to watch in 1918, and now being 65, and having watched for almost six decades, you eagerly await the 1976 playoffs, as you’ll be seeing your Phils play postseason ball for the second time since you started watching in 1918.
The 1915 and 1950 World Series losses were the only postseason appearances in team history until 1976. Before they won their first title in 1980, the franchise had won a grand total of three postseason games.
These are truly impressive statistics.
Throw 10,000 losses into the mix, and you do have an organization with a rather incredible and perhaps unmatched record of losing.
A backdrop like this only makes the current Phillies squad that much more impressive.
This is clearly the best 3-year run in team history, and has a chance to eclipse the ’76-’83 year period of almost annual postseason appearances (every year but ’79 and ’82; 1 title, 2 pennants) as the best stretch in over well over a century of Phillies major league ball.
—————————————————————–
Howard, Utley, Rollins, Hamels, and Happ were all Philly draft picks; Victorino was a Rule 5; and fellow draftees were Schmidt, Luzinski, and Boone; Bowa was a free agent signing. The cores of both this team and the great Philly teams of about 30 years ago combined farm system production with wise player maneuvers, the earlier Phils adding Steve Carlton in a trade with St. Louis, and vets Pete Rose, Garry Maddox, and Tug McGraw, while the rising Phils over the last few years added pieces like Cliff Lee, Pedro Martinez, Raul Ibanez, and Joe Blanton.
It can be hard for the Met fan to fathom and to accept the Phillies as being the class of the NL East, let alone the entire NL. But it is reality. They have not yet proven themselves to be an all-time great team, but they have shown a serious spine and an effusive wealth of grit; most certainly making the most of this team’s opportunities thus far.
Some fans point at the Phillies’ health–especially when viewed with the injury-addled eyes of a 2009 Met fan—as a key factor in their success. Yes, certainly that is a part of it (isn’t it for most successful teams?); other than Ibanez, who missed a few weeks and was not as hot after the injury as he had been.
It’s just time to give them credit.
—————————————————————–
Some of the comments made over the last few years by Rollins, Hamels and Utley are silly, rude, and/or obnoxious, no doubt about it. Victorino’s habits have been rightly questioned, especially in light of Jose Reyes’ enthusiasm being criticized. The way Utley leans into the ball is outrageous (76 HBP in 3 years?!)
They are the type some hate as opponents but would love to see in the orange and blue. Howard? Utley? Ibanez? Werth? Victorino if he’d play LF? Rollins if he’d play 2B even? Who wouldn’t take most of them? Not sure on most of the pitchers outside of Lee and maybe Happ. Hamels may just have more of Ollie in him that previously thought.
But their core contains some serious players. Howard has 198 HR and 572 RBI the last four years. He strikes out a lot, but still, these are some of the all-time great power numbers.
—————————————————————–
Despite the Mets’ failures and recent downturn, the Phils-led NL East has indeed quietly been building itself into one of baseball’s two most powerful divisions. The AL and NL Easts are the only divisions with more than one title in the last 15 years–the era of three-division play, the steroid era, the post-strike era, whatever it will ultimately be called.
This period has thus far produced 14 champs with another soon very likely to come from the East: Al East 6 (Yanks 4, Red Sox 2), NL East 4 (Marlins 2, Braves, Phils), and one each for the AL Central (White Sox), AL West (Angels), NL Central (Cardinals), and NL West (Diamondbacks).
The NL East has the second most titles, and is the only division to have three franchises win the World Series in the last 15 years. This is a stat that should be more widely known and appreciated-it is indeed not just the Yankees and Red Sox who are dominating baseball-it is also the NL East, home of the New York Mets. And Philadelphia Phillies.
So here’s one voice saying Let’s Go Phils and keep it in the division!
That will make the still-chilling-and-probably-awfully-cold-by-now champagne even sweeter when we dethrone them next year.
125 comments
prismo
10/22/2009-8:14am at 8:14 am (UTC -4)
This post makes me SICK!
Now don’t get me wrong – I give the Phillies absolute credit for being the best team in the division the past couple years, and for being a very good team in general. But that’s where I, and all Mets fans, should draw the line.
I don’t know about you, but I’m not getting on my knees and kissing Jimmy Rollins’ feet anytime soon. And even worse, I’m NOT rooting for them to win the World Series. Do I have NL pride? Yeah. But my team is the METS, not the National League, or the NL East.
I can’t even believe you said “Let’s Go Phils” above.
I have one right back atcha:
LET’S GO YANKEES!
trs86
10/22/2009-8:34am at 8:34 am (UTC -4)
The Phillies have done a great job of putting together a strong team that has played well when it counts and taken advantage of what is given to them. (Not saying we gave it to them, they earned it.) But why on earth do I have a need to like them?
Kingman 26
10/22/2009-8:35am at 8:35 am (UTC -4)
Well, Let’s Go Yankees certainly should make any Met fan much more sick than Let’s Go Phils.
And I do apologize for my fervent and repeated suggestion to kiss Jimmy Rollins’ feet.
See, I knew a few kids would cry if I posted something like this….
trs86
10/22/2009-8:40am at 8:40 am (UTC -4)
Kingman, how is this him crying? It appears as though he is stating an opinion that he does not like the Phillies and in turn is pulling for the Yankees.
prismo
10/22/2009-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
Let’s Go Yankees does make me sick…
But it’s like I was captured by an evil government experimental scientist. He told me I have to options: he could give me the flu or a flesh-eating bacteria. Both suck, but I just have to go with the flu!
udontmesswthejohan
10/22/2009-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
While I may take some issue with your level of enthusiasm for the Phillies, I get the point and there is now way in hell I could ever bring myself to root for the Yankees, much less utter “L*t$ Go Yankees”.
prismo
10/22/2009-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
In case you haven’t noticed, there’s about a 95% chance we have a Yankees/Phillies World Series.
You can try and block it out of your mind, but it’s going to happen. You really hate these teams so equally that you can’t favor one side over the other?
udontmesswthejohan
10/22/2009-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
No not at all, I’m wholeheartedly rooting for the Phillies, and I don’t make any bones about it. I don’t hate them nearly as much as I hate the Yankees and their fans. But, let’s just say that I am rooting more for the Yankees to lose than I am actively for the Phillies to win if that makes any sense.
prismo
10/22/2009-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Haha, it does make sense.
mrbill
10/22/2009-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
See, I knew a few kids would cry if I posted something like this….
A FEW???? LOL
Great post Kingman! Agreed 100%.
trs86
10/22/2009-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
Who the hell is crying Mr.Bill? What was for certain is that a post like this would pull you out of hidding though. Welcome back though.
Has any of us said the Phillies are not good or should not be there?
prismo
10/22/2009-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Apparently disagree=cry today.
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
So let’s see….by my count looking at all comments there are 3 of us uh…’crying’…..
I believe three would = ‘A FEW’
Sigh…..
trs86
10/22/2009-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
I still can’t understand how having a different opinion is crying?
If Kingman wants to root for the Phillies? Hell let him. He is just not going to convince the ones that hate them to like them. I don’t think he is trying to do that either. So if in response to his Phillies love, we say we hate the Phillies so bad that we want the Yankees to win it is point counter point. It would be different if everyone on here was saying the Phillies suck and are lucky to be there.
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
Agreed.
And I think Mr. Bill is a closet Philly fan – LOL.
mrbill
10/22/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
Key word: Think
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
what’s your point?
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-8:54am at 8:54 am (UTC -4)
LOL. – I gotta go with Prismo here on this. See my post below.
trs86
10/22/2009-8:30am at 8:30 am (UTC -4)
Nice facts good info. I respectfully hate them and hope they never win another frigging game and they all catch a slight non-deadly case of the swine flu.
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-8:53am at 8:53 am (UTC -4)
Sorry, can’t agree with you here, Kingman. I could care less about keeping the WS champs in the division let alone the NL this year.
Since it appears the Angels will go the way of the Dodgers, my opinion now is: good. The Phils have a far less chance of repeating trying to mow down that Yankee team in the WS.
trs86
10/22/2009-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
One good thing is I have increased my stock in Gillette so regardless of the outcome I should make a ton of cash.
prismo
10/22/2009-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
Also, I can’t decide if this makes me sad or happy:
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200806202968145&c_id=nym
Mostly just nostalgic…
steveo
10/22/2009-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know how 3 years of philly sucess and torment can ever compare to a lifelong of torment from yankee band wagon fans.For me its philly all the way I love to see the money machine go down screw aroid,texiera the phoney fatbathia ,broomy, and aj the idiot
mrbill
10/22/2009-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
The phillies are now in the WS THANKS to the injured New York Mets…..Haaa
trs86
10/22/2009-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Besides you, who said that? I can’t find anyone who has said that.
Even sunshiners know that the best we could have done this year was to be competitive and see what happen at the end. I have no clue what would have happen if we had not been injured and neither do you.
mrbill
10/22/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
We have seen the type of heart the mets have… even if the mets did well leading or close to leading the division “for 13 days”, they would have choked again at the end… We have more proof of that in the last few years than not. This year the team was flawed from the beginning.
prismo
10/22/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
Why are you even a “fan”?
mrbill
10/22/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Because i love the pain! lol Every year I hope the FO puts a competitive team on the field… Hopefully, 2010 is the year.
trs86
10/22/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
So 2006, 2007, 2008 and possibly 2009 were not competitive teams? LOL.
mrbill
10/22/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
No wonder you laugh… You say there were all championship teams.. ha ha ha
2009 not a competitive team with the starting rotation and OF positions.
2008 oh yeah i forgot the bullpen was very competitive lol
2007 they were competitive but also chokers.
2006 YES, they were competitive.
wannybackstra
10/22/2009-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
Do you define competitive as only reaching the postseason or better?
I, and I guess we, define it differently. Certainly missing the postseason by one game would qualify as competitive under my definition.
trs86
10/22/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
YOU said competitive not championship. There is a big difference. From 2006-2008 there was not a team more COMPETITIVE than the Mets in the NL during that time. Did Omar build a CHAMPIONSHIP team, obviously not.
mrbill
10/22/2009-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
Wanny,
While I don’t define competitive as reaching the post season; I don’t define it as choking like the mets did in 2007. There are competitive ways to lose the chance to play October baseball and they way the Mets lost it in 2007/2008 is not it.
trs86
10/22/2009-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
Answer the question. I love how you put Wanny in there because you knew I would go here.
Were the Mets competitive 2006-2008 under the definition of competitive?
mrbill
10/22/2009-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
lol, the funny thing is that you “think” you know me…
2006= yes.
2007/2008: nope. why? you already read my reason.
I was in Charlotte this past weekend… imagine we crossed paths?? lol
trs86
10/22/2009-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
I did see a lic. plate that read
DWchokes.
No I don’t know you anymore than you know me.
But based on the definition of the word competitive, the Mets were competitive in 2007 and 2008. It may not fit your definition because you think they were flawed but based on definition if you finish 1 game out your are indeed competitive.
mrbill
10/22/2009-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
I would never do that to my precious car!!!
wannybackstra
10/22/2009-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
Doesn’t one by definition need to have been competitive in order to have choked?
whataputz
10/22/2009-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
you should root for the phillies because they are an actual baseball team as opposed to those a**holes from ny. I really don’t even hate the Phillies that much, they win..that all they do. They get it done when they need to, their not that flashy they’re not a collaboration of 100 million dollar players, they’re a team that built a core like we tried to do, and accomplished what we thought we were going to see, when we thought we’d be seing it. They’re essentially the American version fo what we thought we were going to be.
trs86
10/22/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
So that is why I should like them or why I should say they are good? Why do I have to root for them? I don’t get it? So because our forced rival is better than us, we must now root for them? This is getting silly.
whataputz
10/22/2009-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
no, because they’re playing the team that embodies evil is why you should root for them. The Yanks are alot easier to hate than the Phillies are.
trs86
10/22/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
So because they are playing the Yankees and the Yankees are evil because they spend a lot of money I should then root for the Phillies? Nope can’t do it. Even if I liked every player on the team and was green with envy over their mascot I still could not root for the Phillies.
wannybackstra
10/22/2009-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Well done, Kingman. What the Phillies have done recently is remarkable when compared with their team history. And the manner in which they’ve built this team is a good model for how the Mets should seek to build theirs.
Of the Mets’ “core” only Wright and Reyes were drafted (unless you count Pelfrey… and I don’t yet) and so only two of its key players have provided inexpensive to reasonably priced value whereas the Phillies’ system has allowed them to add moderately priced complementary pieces (Blanton, Werth, etc.). The Mets on the other hand have had to spend big money on core pieces (Santana, Beltran, K-Rod, etc.), leaving them to rely on complementary pieces like Omir Santos, Bobby Parnell and risks like Francoeur.
All that said, I will continue to respectfully hate them because they are currently the team that stands in the way of the Mets chances to win the NL East in 2010. (I will always hate Jimmy Rollins for classless display of calling out the Mets during his 2008 WS postgame speech)
trs86
10/22/2009-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Can’t like Hamels either. Utley it burns me that he is allowed to stand on the plate and I like Howard as a throwback type of guy. Love Werth, can’t stand Vicki and have a lot of respect for Ibanez and Moyer. But what the hell does any of that have to do with me rooting for the Phillies?
The Phillies could have some issues with some of those non farm guys pretty soon too, for that matter their farm guys. Werth, Vicki, Blanton, Lee are all going to be tough to retain and even more expensive.
udontmesswthejohan
10/22/2009-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
TRS, correct me if I’m wrong, but you do not live in the tri state area right?
I only ask because it would be interesting to see how the break down goes amongst those who live in the NYC area. I’m guessing that those of you from out of the area probably have more hatred v. the Phillies than those of us who live here and have to deal with our friends and aquaintences (sp) who are Yankee fans. Just a thought.
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
No, don’t agree with this either.
I’m a 40 year plus NY Met fan living my whole life in central Jersey. Life long hatred of the Yankees does not trump rooting for the Phillies this year.
Not in my opinion anyway.
I see the point in the ‘AFraud’, steriods, money bought the team mindset. But…it just doesn’t trump Hollywood Hamels, the whining flying hawaiin, and the big mouth Rollins.
mrbill
10/22/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
Yankee and philly fans are obnoxious but I hate yankee fans more because as you said I have to deal with them constantly. Although, some here “think” I am either a Yankee fan or a philly fan. Go figure.
wannybackstra
10/22/2009-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
No. We actually wonder if you are really a baseball fan.
mrbill
10/22/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Believe it or not I am. I am a true met fan lol
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Ha! Good for you. I often wondered….
udontmesswthejohan
10/22/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
It’s not even the real Yankee fans who really get me, annoying though they might be. It’s the stupid bandwagon jumpers/celebrities who just kill me. There are so many of them and I just can’t stomach watching them pretend like they actually care.
wannybackstra
10/22/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
So what if those guys will soon be tough to retain? They have two more WS appearances with their model than the Mets with theirs.
The bottom line is that the Mets’ farm system needs to produce some legitimate home grown talent. Unfortunately, by the time they do, Wright and Reyes won’t be bargains anymore and Beltran will be old.
trs86
10/22/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
LOL, but not Ibanez old.
wannybackstra
10/22/2009-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
And I can’t put Utley or Hamels or Victorino in the same class as Rollins. Rollins went out of his way to rub his World Series victory in the faces of the Mets when the moment should have been about the Phillies and the Philly fans.
Those other guys are just competitive guys who like to trash talk a bit during the season. Nothing wrong with that. We have a few of them ourselves.
CaseStreet
10/22/2009-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Gotta give it to the Phils. The Rockies were a joke but the Dodgers should’ve been more competitive.
I really can’t root for either team.
The Yanks are the EVIL EMPIRE and the attitude of Yankees fans is beyond disgusting.
The Phils have been a good team but since they have a Mets complex, I can’t root for them.
So FU World Series!
F*ck the Yankees and F*ck the Phillies!
Let’s Go Mets!
prismo
10/22/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Giants > Eagles
Rangers > Flyers
WOO!
wannybackstra
10/22/2009-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
You might want to wait till the end of the season on that second one…
stickguy
10/22/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
nice facts Kong. Always good to keep the persepctive that the Phils have a long and storied history of stinking, and their fans hae a major (like the cubs, and for a while redsox) loser attitude/mentality.
But, almost all teams occassionally get lucky (lucky menaing forturnate that they get the right group to click at the right time, following a good plan). The Phils are in theirs now. So, let them enjoy it. Remember how good the Mets were in 2006, and primed for more? ’99-’00? ANd how fast things changed?
Well, entirely possible that a couple of years from now, the Phils team will have peaked and declined, and they will be in “well, at least we had a couple of WS’s in that run” mode!
But, I refuse to root for them. Or the Yankees. Why do I have to root for anyone? Can’t I just hate them both, and hope for rain during every game? Maybe snow too?
Also, someone above wondered if it was regional, and I think it is. While I would prefer neither team wins (maybe the Angels can pull off a 2004 than take the WS, and incredible win-win that won’t happen), my personal best case is the Yankees wipe the phils out in 4.
Why? Well, that gets the pain over with quicker, and takes away any drama of a tight race. But mostly, I live right outside philly, and I am so freaking tired of the fans, but even more so of not being able to watch the news on TV! These people really need a does of cold reality.
Also, no matter what happens 9win or lose), Yankee fans will still be smug and obnoxious, and likely rude and condescending to Met fans. But at least if they win, the fans won’t be angry!
trs86
10/22/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Actually I like what someone on MCblog said. I am hoping for an earthquake.
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
Ha! I don’t think that would do it though.
I remember watching the pre game hoopla before that WS game that night in 1989 when that earthquake hit San Fran. Took them 10 days but they finally resumed that series….
metsgirl31
10/22/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Sorry…cannot agree with this post…IF it comes down to the Phillies/Yankees (as it appears it will) then I will root for the Yankees…cannot and will not root for the Phillies under any circumstance.
mrbill
10/22/2009-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
“Sorry…cannot agree with this post”
What a shocker!
trs86
10/22/2009-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
Mr. Bill shows up for this post. What a shocker.
metsgirl31
10/22/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Exactly…
CaseStreet
10/22/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
I’d have to agree w/ the regional debate.
Living in NYC and being a met fan, there’s no way I will cheer for the Yanks.
You should see how their “fans” are acting.
After the loss to the Angels, a coworker told my Girardi is on the hot seat. If they don’t win the WS he should be fired.
There’s such a sense of entitlement, it’s beyond disgusting. I really have no words for the type of arrogance that I see. And they are complete bandwagon fans. I doubt many of them actually know who is on the team. All they know is A-Rod, Jeter and Joba!
mattsmith
10/22/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
It’s good to hear some of you guys respect the Phillies. That was Kingman’s point, I think. You don’t have to cheer for them or root for them. Just respect this run that their on.
Someone said the Phillies won’t get through the Yankees. Believe it or not, the Phillies match up pretty damn well with the Yanks.
As a Phillies fan, what I hate about the Mets most of all is you guys coming to The Bank doing your stupid Mets chants. That back-and-forth banter, too, fuels that rivalry.
I don’t hate anyone in particular on the Mets. Reyes and K-Rod annoy me. I love David Wright and I’d make him my third baseman any day.
I think it’s fine to admit that you respect what the Phillies are doing.
trs86
10/22/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know really anyone on the blog that says they are not a good team. Fortunate is any team to make the playoffs.
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
Agree with TRS here. The issue wasn’t about respect. The issue for us Met fans was, if it comes down to Philles/Yanks, which do we consider the lesser of two evils. Pick your poison.
I would think it would be hard for any non Met fan to get the concept of this one. It’s a long, ingrained mindset of ours when it comes to the Yankees.
We’d be having the same debate if this was the mid 90s and it was the Yankees and Braves in the world series – only instead of the Phils, insert Braves.
trs86
10/22/2009-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, especially for me in redneck hell.
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know what would be worse as a Met fan:
Living smack in the middle of Brave country
or
living smack in the middle of Philly right now…..
trs86
10/22/2009-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
Philly right now. Braves have been in the closet for years.
stickguy
10/22/2009-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
living in philly country is much worse. Houses cost more, and the property taxes are a killer!
That, and IMO the phillies have many mosre, and much more obnoxious, fans.
I think the diff is that in the 90′s the fans hated the Braves team (OK, most were jealous), but now, it is the philly fans that are the focus.
trs86
10/22/2009-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Someone pointed out the regional thing earlier. For me it has nothing to do with it. Most fans where I live are either Braves fans hiding in the closet or are bandwagon Yankees fans. In fact right now I would bet the Yankees would win the poll of who people in NC are rooting for. Listening to the Charlotte radio stations, who barely even mention baseball, they have much more negative things to say about fans in Philly than in NY and thought it was quite comical when the Phillies used shaving cream the other night.
CaseStreet
10/22/2009-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
right, but if you lived in NYC and had to deal w/ Yankees fans on a constant basis, you may hate the Yankees more.
The Yankees – Mets rivalries has no end.
It’s in family gatherings, at work, on the subway, everywhere you go here you are sure to be able to find a heated Yankees-Mets heated discussion.
trs86
10/22/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
But to me that is all in good fun. It is supposed to be that way and no one forced a rivalry. For the Phillies, it feels like to me they forced the rivalry. It was almost like they needed the Mets to be their rival.
CaseStreet
10/22/2009-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
which is why I can say Let’s Go Phils.
I want them to beat the Yankees.
Like you said the Phils rivalry is forced, unlike with the Yanks which is a true rivalry.
A Phillies Win pales in comparison to what a Yankee Win would mean to me.
I don’t care if the Phils burn down their town while dancing on Mr. Mets head, but if I have to see one more Yankees parade down the Canyon Of Heroes in my life…
mattsmith
10/22/2009-8:36pm at 8:36 pm (UTC -4)
You don’t want to live with the burden of being No. 2 in NYC if the Yankees win. If the Phillies win, it stings more because we get to live with the fact that the TOP TEAM IN YOUR DIVISION has won another WS.
Double-edged sword for you guys, indeed.
I was almost sick to my stomach when the Giants won the Super Bowl. I thought for sure the Eli Manning would never be a winner.
By the way, are most Mets fans Jets fans or Giants fans?
mattsmith
10/22/2009-8:37pm at 8:37 pm (UTC -4)
“…it stings more because YOU (not WE) get to live with the fact…”
Sorry, just wanted to fix that error.
trs86
10/22/2009-8:38pm at 8:38 pm (UTC -4)
Yes. LOL. But mostly Jets from what I can tell. I am a semi-Giants fan myself. Never really had a true NFL or NBA team. I have always paid more attention to college basketball and football.
saltygary
10/22/2009-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Eff Em
Eff the Phils
Eff the Braves
Eff the Phish and Nats
Eff the Yanks
Eff Steve Philips
And Eff Omar if he doesn’t bring back Bobby V.
GravediggerHebner
10/22/2009-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
Kong, excellent piece. Very thorough, fact-filled and informative.
The only aspect I can’t fall in line with is the “Let’s Go Phils!” portion.
Assuming the Yankees fulfill their end of the bargain and win their series with the Angels, the World Series then becomes something that has no possible happy ending for me.
I can think of no major sporting event that I would like to watch less. The only thing that comes to mind as a comparison is for me as a New York Football Giants fan it would be kind of like watching the Cowboys play the Cowboys in the Super Bowl (no that’s not a typo).
Just as I respect the Phillies as a team (as others have said above, respecting the Phillies has never been the issue), and just as I respect my fellow Met fans right to root for either the Phillies or the Yankees in that potential World Series, I hope they will respect my right to ignore it.
Congratulations to the 2009 NL Champion Philadelphia Phillies.
CaseStreet
10/22/2009-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
always the sound of reason
GravediggerHebner
10/22/2009-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps but one person’s “voice of reason” is another person’s “boring.”
I’d never make a good cable TV show guest. Maybe host, but not a guest. I don’t yell enough controversial things.
True story: a dear old friend of mine once told me he thought the perfect job for me would be “Hospital Public Relations Director” (does such a profession even exist?). He said “you’d be great at telling someone their loved one didn’t make it.”
trs86
10/22/2009-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, that’s a vote of confidence there.
wannybackstra
10/22/2009-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
The job exists but they don’t get the pleasure of telling people of such great news.
trs86
10/22/2009-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. Have earned respect as well as earned the right to be ignored.
waituntilnextyear
10/22/2009-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
“The NL East has the second most titles, and is the only division to have three franchises win the World Series in the last 15 years.”
A really great way of showing just how competitive the NL East is, and as much as it pains me to say it, it shows how impressive the Phillies have been in recent years in establishing themselves as the top side.
trs86
10/22/2009-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
Welcome to TRDMB.
While I agree, the NL East has also shown it’s uggly side the last 2 years. Nats and Mets were dreadful this year and Braves and Marlins were neither a threat. Last year while the Mets blew it and the Phillies took it, the division overall was quite week. Same can be said for 2006.
Kingman 26
10/22/2009-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, you really leave rational thought at the door when it comes to the Phils! You are like my Dad when it comes to the Yankees! Every homer Mickey Mantle EVER hit was a wind-blown 296-footer!
Our division leader won the World Series last year, and that signifies a weak division??
trs86
10/22/2009-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
If Miami were to win the national championship does that make the ACC a strong conference?
Kingman 26
10/22/2009-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps not, but practically by definition, can a division which provides a sport’s champion be “quite weak?”
trs86
10/22/2009-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, the team can be great and the division weak. Very much so.
Kingman 26
10/22/2009-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Not meaning to be defensive–but was the division really that weak last year, with the Phils winning it all, and us winning 89 and missing out by one game (yes, most horrible though that was), and the Marlins being decent?
trs86
10/22/2009-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
You are right, maybe I am not giving the Marlins enough credit. Either way based on the regular season the East would have been behind the Central with 4 teams finishing with 86 wins or more.
trs86
10/22/2009-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
2007 the West was the strongest.
trs86
10/22/2009-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
2006 besides the Mets the entire NL stunk.
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
I.E. – 2006.
Were the Mets that much better or the rest of the division that much more weak that year?
Splitting hairs maybe. The Mets were that good and the rest of the division was that weak…
trs86
10/22/2009-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
The entire NL was bad or beat up on each other one. The Mets had a 9 game lead on best record. LOL.
mrbill
10/22/2009-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
WOW real! you fight me and then you make comments like this one? Haaa
trs86
10/22/2009-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t sugar coat things the way you think I do. We were terrible this year. Who can argue. Where we differ is why we were terrible.
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
On any given baseball blog, you’ll have your diplomats, your stat guys, your passionate fans, your pessimists, your optimists, your delusional fans, your know-it-all fans and your bandwagon fans.
Mr. Bill is the anti GraveDigger…
trs86
10/22/2009-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
Lets get him some anti-inflamatory cream for that.
mrbill
10/22/2009-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
trs and metfan, the classiest met fans of all time.
trs86
10/22/2009-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
Thank you Mr. Bill. That means a lot coming from you. Perhaps you were not the rotten part of the core.
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
I rest my case.
stickguy
10/22/2009-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
The only way this WS could turn out well is if they set some kind of record for most players having to get carted off the field! Wait, was that tacky? Oh well.
maybe the Karma gods will smack down the Phils next year, now that they have gotten way too cocky (lots of “dynasty vs. dynasty” talk starting down here). Time for some payback, of the 2009 met or 2008 yankee style.
and for those who say a team has to spend huge $$ in FA to get decent players, the phils OF consists of a 37 YO FA that got decent money for the economy, but nothing spectacular for a FA, a 2x rule 5 guy, and a guy that was a high pick that missed 2 years mostly injured, then was non-tnedered and signed as a take a flyer FA.
Actually, the Phils tried to give Vicky back, and the Dodgers decided to keep the 25K instead! Someitmes, a team gets lucky even when they try to make a bad move (DW for that Toronto OF anyone?)
trs86
10/22/2009-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Stick while it is true that there are many paths to success for this group the path is already taken and you can’t switch in the middle without having to back track. We can’t be the best team next year without spending a ton. Maybe in 3 years or so, but not next year.
stickguy
10/22/2009-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
spend all you want, but if the talent isn’t there to spend on, it won’t matter. You just end up with a really expensive not good enough team, and no ability to add anyone to help.
Kind of like the Cubs!
Am I the only one that isn’t going to go homicidal if it takes 2 years to right the ship, and will support a plan to be dominant in 2011 (theoretically, of course), even if it means 2010 might not be a championship year?
trs86
10/22/2009-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
Nah, I would rather be dominant in 2010 and 2011. You can spend money without going Cubs route. Just stay away from Zito, Soriano type contracts unless you are 100% sure they are part of the future. There will be plenty of 1-2 year deals to be had this offseason that you could spend a lot of money on and make the team better for 2010 and not risk 2011. Besides, I still believe if we are not competitive next year we will be even worse in 2011.
trs86
10/22/2009-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
“OK I am confused Cerrone?
…noble doesn’t say if the Mets like the idea of cameron in Citi Field next season, or if they like the idea of acquiring him… he only says they like the idea… so, i am not totally sure what that is supposed to mean…”
First, can you capitalize your comentary? Back to the post. What is the difference? If the Mets say “We like the idea of Cameron in Citi” is that not the same as “We like the idea of aquiring Cameron”?
CaseStreet
10/22/2009-1:50pm at 1:50 pm (UTC -4)
maybe in Cerrone world, one means they like him in Citi as a fan, an opposing player, etc.
trs86
10/22/2009-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
Going back to a few weeks ago as it seems more appropriate now. Would you guys trade Perez for Bradley?
trs86
10/22/2009-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
IF you did you would most likely have enough money to get Lackey AND another SP.
stickguy
10/22/2009-1:40pm at 1:40 pm (UTC -4)
only if they were planning to release perez, and make the trade to release bradley instead and save some money!
seriously, no I would not. Bradley will not help them, especially if last year is indicative of what his hitting ability is now.
keep in mind that he is not a big HR guy that will overpower citifiled. And, he is just not good in the OF.
Even off his bad year (and the knee has to have been a legit facotr), a 28YO LHSP is going to be worth more to a team than and aging DH psycho.
you want an off the wall idea? Trade K Rod, and make Ollie the closer!
metsfan4decades
10/22/2009-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
Stick, you’ve lost your mind – LOL.
Ollie as closer? I don’t think there is enough Rolaids in the land to compensate for having Ollie close Met games…
metsgirl31
10/22/2009-1:53pm at 1:53 pm (UTC -4)
Oh my god…can you even imagine what that would be like? Ugh…
CaseStreet
10/22/2009-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
lol, the Mets would break the record for blown saves by walking in the winning run
stickguy
10/22/2009-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
no crazier than bringing in Bradley to patrol LF. The pitchers might have to chip in and have him kidnapped and tossed in the east river.
stickguy
10/22/2009-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
I did say it was an off the wall idea. Learn to appreciate humor people!
It may not be quite as crazy as it sounds though. In general, SPs with good “stuff” that don’t give up a lot of hits, but have a tendancy to die off by the 5th inning, are great candidates for moving to the back end of the BP. And man, that description fits ollie! And when his shoulder hurt, maine too (to a lesser degree).
Even last year Ollie had a few games where he dominated the first couple of innings, then fell apart. And who knows what he could do if he didn’t have to worry about pacing himself? If nothing else, it takes 4 walks to = a run, but only 1 batter hitting a HR! He also K’s a lot of batters.
Now, I wouldn’t recommend bringing him in to a bases loaded no out jam too often, but most closers come in to start the 9th anyway. And it’s not like K rod wasn’t walking too many guys also. And, Ollie might be too oblivious to realize he is in a pressure situation!
If you want interesting ideas to free up money, trading K rod, and letting the live arms compete for the closer job, and redirecting the savings into more FAs (plenty for lackey, holliday, and a 1B), this certainly qualifies.
wannybackstra
10/22/2009-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
Ollie’s career numbers in the first inning are .263 .350 .484
It’s his worst inning among 1-8. Not too good.
trs86
10/22/2009-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
I think Ollie walked more guys than innings pitched. LOL.
GravediggerHebner
10/22/2009-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
As Met fans we certainly have strong feelings about the Phillies and the Yankees so it makes perfect sense to me that we talk about them as that potential match up looms.
But imagine being a Cleveland Indian fan.
Game 1. Charlie Manuel brings out the lineup card. Cliff Lee and CC Sabathia are the opposing pitchers.
Ugh. What might’ve been.
stickguy
10/22/2009-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
Think TRS might have an opion for MC on his latest reader solicitation?
“…by the way, i am working on a pretty extensive re-design for MetsBlog.com… so, if you have time, feel free to answer the following question, using the comment box below:
What do you like about MetsBlog’s current design? What don’t you like? What would you add? What would you change?
CaseStreet
10/22/2009-4:37pm at 4:37 pm (UTC -4)
uh, NOW he wants to read the comments? WTF
trs86
10/22/2009-7:03pm at 7:03 pm (UTC -4)
Well I hope he does not want me to comment in the comment section. I have to do that on here because for some damn reason I am still awaiting moderation.