Oct 27
Being that today is evidently Phillies vs. Yankees day on TRDMB I also offer you this. No comments on the actual post, I will leave that to the comment section for this one.
From our friend Jimmy: “Of course we’re gonna win. If we’re nice, we’ll let it go six, but I’m thinking five, close it out at home.”"
You may hate the Yankees but Jeter’s rebuttal is classic. To listen click: Jeter ESPN Podcast
Rivera also responds: Mo ESPN Podcast
Be careful.
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66 comments
metsfan4decades
10/27/2009-7:22pm at 7:22 pm (UTC -4)
This from Baseball Digest:
‘First Jimmy Rollins accurately predicted the Phillies would play the Yankees in the World Series. Now Rollins claims the Phils will beat the Yanks in five games. Andrew Marchand of ESPN has the story as well as audio reaction from Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera. To say Jeter sounds unfazed is an understatement.
Be careful about those big words Jimmy. Back in 2000 Benny Agbayani predicted on the Howard Stern Show the Mets would win the 2000 Subway Series in five games. We all know what happened then.
The trash talk is out in full force. This could get fun.’
************************
There are a handful of Philly fans on Beerleaguer who are basically telling fans there if you think the Phils are winning in 5, you’re in fantasy land. Those handful are saying if the Phils do pull it off, it’s going the full 7.
So Rollins is talking the talk. Better be able to walk the walk or given what I’m reading today across the blog sphere, NO ONE will ever take Philly seriously again.
trs86
10/27/2009-7:25pm at 7:25 pm (UTC -4)
Can’t judge the Phillies by the loose idiot who likes to run his mouth. So far his teammates have been able to back him up. If they are not, he will be laughed off like the rest of players who have burned in flames after a quote like this.
prismo
10/27/2009-7:38pm at 7:38 pm (UTC -4)
HAH. That’s great! I never disliked Jeter – he’s always been a stand-up guy. Great quote.
metsfan4decades
10/27/2009-8:05pm at 8:05 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, I think Jeter has been down this road just a few more times.
I just can’t believe the Rollins quote. To say you’re going to win is one thing – you should think you’re going to win. But to say, if they’re nice, they’ll let it go six, but he’s thinking five? Hello, do they really think that Yankee team is only going to win one game?
On paper, and/or to me, the Yankees pitching trumps Philly pitching. All else might be more or less close to being equal. Pitching trumps offense.
phillies09
10/27/2009-8:23pm at 8:23 pm (UTC -4)
Every outfield position trumps the Yankees. 2nd base trumps the Yankees. They get 3rd base and can even have SS although I’d love to debate that it’s a push.
Pitching doesn’t always trump an offense that can be as good as they are when they’re hitting on all cylinders.
Also…doesn’t anyone see the playfulness in this quote or does that get over looked because you all despise him?
CaseStreet
10/27/2009-8:42pm at 8:42 pm (UTC -4)
of course he’s joking, but why joke around?
phillies09
10/27/2009-8:56pm at 8:56 pm (UTC -4)
have a little fun? show a little personality?
everything that baseball should be
stickguy
10/27/2009-8:10pm at 8:10 pm (UTC -4)
isn’t there already a phillies blog on NLEC? Maybe the RDMB guys should shut down for a week and go on vacation, and come back when the off season starts! Way too much philly fascination going on today!
phillies09
10/27/2009-8:19pm at 8:19 pm (UTC -4)
A.J. Burnett: “I know Jimmy and Jimmy is very confident. In my mind that’s not a knock at us. It’s him having confidence in his team.’’
Johnny Damon: “What do you expect him to say and what do you expect Phillies fans to expect?’ I wish he had predicted it the other way but then there would have been a lot of angry Phillies fans.’’
Joba Chamberlain: “Jimmy is Jimmy. He wouldn’t be Jimmy if he didn’t do that. And you what, he’s got to go out and play the game. Jimmy does a great job of promoting the game of baseball and the interest that there is going to be the two teams. Jimmy is Jimmy.”
These guys understand…so why can’t any of you?
wannybackstra
10/27/2009-8:41pm at 8:41 pm (UTC -4)
could be because of his classless comments on the field after last year’s world series.
phillies09
10/27/2009-8:55pm at 8:55 pm (UTC -4)
if that was classless then what is this world headed too. I know you guys have some thicker skin than that…
dirtysanchez
10/27/2009-9:00pm at 9:00 pm (UTC -4)
Its ok…i guess we will see how “accurate” his predictions are, except this time there wont be the marlins to bail him out.
wannybackstra
10/27/2009-9:02pm at 9:02 pm (UTC -4)
Calling out the Mets players during his WS trophy acceptance speech wasn’t classless? (during which he described the team as only one player)
phillies09
10/27/2009-9:08pm at 9:08 pm (UTC -4)
making a single comment about the team in general is in no way calling out any of the mets players.
P.S. speaking of predictions, remember this?
“With (pitcher Johan Santana), now, I have no doubt that we’re going to win in our division,” Beltran said. “So this year, to Jimmy Rollins, we are the team to beat.”
Rollins quote..
“It takes more than one player to bring home a championship.”
…was a direct response
moral of the story, your player brought it upon himself
wannybackstra
10/27/2009-9:14pm at 9:14 pm (UTC -4)
Apples and oranges.
Preseason predictions are benign and without malice.
Rubbing it one’s face is low brow poor sportsmanship.
On the biggest stage he’s been given and during a time of personal success he chose to talk poorly about another team rather than to take the high road or to talk about his own team.
He’s a jerk. Bottom line.
wannybackstra
10/27/2009-9:16pm at 9:16 pm (UTC -4)
I guess you don’t remember Jimmy Rollins’ postgame quote very well if you think it was making a single comment about the team.
In sum or substance he said something about the Mets acquiring Johan Santana but a team is more than just one person. That’s not calling out the other 24 members of the team… some of whom were legitimate MVP candidates that season no less?
GravediggerHebner
10/27/2009-9:18pm at 9:18 pm (UTC -4)
a direct response 8 months later?
My personal reaction was there was no need for a Phillie, at his own team’s World Championship celebration, to even mention the Mets. Why was he even thinking about them?
But if you either don’t care why he was thinking about them at that moment, or have determined for yourself why he would be and are fine with the reason, then it makes sense you would have no problem with it. I hope you can understand why I would find it odd.
phillies09
10/27/2009-9:59pm at 9:59 pm (UTC -4)
I just think there was obvious history for the recent years that he was once again bringing to light. You guys act like he spent a good 5 minutes degrading the mets, when in reality it was a single sentence.
It’s no secret who the Phillies fans least favorite opponents are, and Jimmy saw a FAIR opportunity to take a shot at what has been a back and forth game.
It gets really tiring having to listen to all the “experts” and SI magazine pick the mets to win every year because they believe salary dictates performance. The Phillies were looked down upon during the most of the playoffs and the team leader took his chance to say I told you so. So kill him for it.
Agree to disagree because I will never change my opinion on this
prismo
10/27/2009-10:05pm at 10:05 pm (UTC -4)
Phillies were looked down upon during most of the playoffs!?
Where’d you get that idea from?
Everyone I talked to expected the Phillies to make it to the World Series. You can stop trying to pull the “underdog card” anytime now.
Your team won the WS last year and is in it again this year. You’re NOT an underdog team and the Phillies have one of the highest payrolls in baseball – you’ll find it’s not even that far below the Mets’ payroll.
phillies09
10/27/2009-10:19pm at 10:19 pm (UTC -4)
google all the major sports outlets and look at the predictions from 2008.
things like this
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2008/series?series=ladphi
Also, the Phillies payroll has just recently started to creep up as they’ve become contenders. (and we are still 40 mil below the mets)
phillies09
10/27/2009-10:23pm at 10:23 pm (UTC -4)
that underdog was last year and I never referenced we were this year.
as for SI –
http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2009/03/
sports_illustrated_picks_new_y.html
Im not pulling this stuff out of my ass
prismo
10/27/2009-10:55pm at 10:55 pm (UTC -4)
Way less than 40 mil under the Mets. Did you forget about the midseason acquisitions? And it’s only going to be higher next season.
GravediggerHebner
10/27/2009-10:32pm at 10:32 pm (UTC -4)
Phils09, You have a pretty reasonable take on it and I understand that you are not likely to change your opinion on it.
I’m not trying to rehash past remarks by various players and their timeline, and as I said below by this time I have come to accept both our favorite teams’ shortstops, warts and all.
All I’m saying is (and I’m not expecting you to suddenly go “by God he’s right!”) I found the one specific remark made by Rollins at the Championship celebration to be odd due not to what was said, but to the time and place.
Clearly Rollins is a different person than I. If I were at the pinnacle of my “job” I wouldn’t have a place in my mind/heart at that moment for that kind of thinking. I would be too engulfed relishing my success and accomplishments with my teammates to be thinking “ha ha” about a stepping stone along the way. Perhaps this is because I am aware of the axiom “be careful who you step on on the way up, you might be coming back down.”
But I am not the same person as he is. Maybe Rollins felt/feels so invincible he can’t comprehend that. And that’s fine for him. It’s certainly working out well for him the last couple of years. It shows he either believes he has and perhaps actually does have the fortitude to deal with whatever comes his way on the way down.
darknova306
10/27/2009-10:37pm at 10:37 pm (UTC -4)
And they can say whatever they want whenever they want until we actually stop choking and shut them up by winning. Talk is cheap. Let’s try to win some damn games.
phillies09
10/27/2009-10:46pm at 10:46 pm (UTC -4)
I see your point of course but that’s what separates us and them.
Well besides the fame, money, and talent of course
GravediggerHebner
10/27/2009-10:49pm at 10:49 pm (UTC -4)
That’s fine Dark. I guess in addition to respectfully disagreeing on what qualifies as a choke we also respectfully disagree on what a reasonable balance of humility and confidence is.
My own personal definition of a champion, what Rollins was that day and still is for at least another few weeks, involves a bit more of that balance than Rollins displays.
We are both entitled to have and to express our own subjective definitions of humility and champion and yours is as valid as any other.
My point in this discussion is Rollins, in my personal opinion, did not display either quality proudly at that moment.
I do agree that the best way to bring this “thing” to a halt is a classic dethroning. Whether we believe it involves choking or not, the Mets haven’t been on the throne since 1986 and haven’t even been in the next room to it since 2006. The Phillies are making themselves quite comfortable in and around the throne recently. In my opinion, a little too comfortable.
And all I can do IS talk about it. I don’t play the games.
darknova306
10/28/2009-6:05am at 6:05 am (UTC -4)
My point, Grave, was that ‘a reasonable balance of humility and confidence’ is irrelevent. He’s a champion so he can say what he damn well pleases, whenever he pleases, wherever he pleases. If it bothers us, then our band of losers needs to step up and beat him so he’s not in the position to say what he pleases.
My definition of a champion is someone who won it all. That entitles you to whatever talk you want because you’ve already backed it all up.
trs86
10/28/2009-8:38am at 8:38 am (UTC -4)
LOL, this coming from a guy who all but cried on his own blog and here over a post in a rag newspaper.
gonzowill
10/27/2009-8:56pm at 8:56 pm (UTC -4)
God I hate the Phillies, I mean c’on. I thought he was through predicting. I hope he goes 0-15. As a Met fan, it’s hard to hate Jeter.
stickguy
10/27/2009-10:40pm at 10:40 pm (UTC -4)
No it’s not. Although to be fair, I don’t know him personally, but I can’t stand his smirk. Kobe too.
I hate smirkers.
dirtysanchez
10/27/2009-8:56pm at 8:56 pm (UTC -4)
hahaha love him or hate him, Jeter knows how to work the media..well done
metsfan4decades
10/27/2009-11:29pm at 11:29 pm (UTC -4)
Jeter ALWAYS knew how to work the media. There’s a reason he’s wearing that ‘C’ patch….
GravediggerHebner
10/27/2009-9:13pm at 9:13 pm (UTC -4)
J-Roll clearly likes the sound of his own voice, J-Rey clearly likes to shimmy and shake.
One NL East shortstop likes to express himself with words, the other through dance.
Given their native tongues, and given that they both make their living in a country where the predominant spoken language is English, both of their choices for expression make a lot of sense.
Why don’t we all cut them both some slack? It’s just a game.
phillies09
10/27/2009-9:14pm at 9:14 pm (UTC -4)
+1
metsfan4decades
10/27/2009-11:32pm at 11:32 pm (UTC -4)
Grave – ever the diplomat….
It’s apples and oranges – comparing the two.
In my personal opinion (and all please note it’s just my opinion)…
Reye’s silly dance doesn’t come close to remark after remark to the media.
Don’t know how you can compare the two.
trs86
10/28/2009-8:44am at 8:44 am (UTC -4)
I am not sure how I get that. So if Reyes were to dance at a celebration it would be a direct smack at the Phillies and be classless?
darknova306
10/27/2009-10:35pm at 10:35 pm (UTC -4)
*yawn* Talk is cheap. Just play the game and shut the hell up. Is it the off-season yet? No? Whatever. *pours another beer*
stickguy
10/27/2009-10:35pm at 10:35 pm (UTC -4)
For philliesfan, the Phils are actually only about 20 million below the Mets in payroll for 2009 (assigning only the 400K they are paying Sheffield). And the Mets have much more coming off the books now, although of course we have no idea how much each team will spend. So no, the Phils are not some low budget cinderella team.
According to Cots, the Phils have 108mill obligated for 2010, the Mets only have 92. THe Yankees of course are at 166mill!
phillies09
10/27/2009-10:45pm at 10:45 pm (UTC -4)
really? I’m confused though.
Is that from a clause in his contract, cause this has him listed as 14 mil.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=nym
That’s interesting though. And I by no means will call them low budget at this point. I just think they have a well balanced salary and definitely don’t have as open budget as the Mets. Again though, I will not knock the benefits of a large market team. If I’m going to make an argument it’ll start with the Yankees…
I just hate seeing the reports like the Chapman one where you guys entertain the idea of throwing tens of millions at some unknown. It’s a Yankee mentality and it’s disgusting to me. But in no way am I going to say that the Phillies are a miracle when it comes to performance and their payroll. I’m sorry if I came off that way.
prismo
10/27/2009-10:58pm at 10:58 pm (UTC -4)
The Mets picked Shef up off waivers. They only had to pay him the league minimum.
phillies09
10/27/2009-11:39pm at 11:39 pm (UTC -4)
wait a minute though. why wouldn’t everyone jump on a 400k hall of famer? and why is he listed at 14 million
GravediggerHebner
10/27/2009-11:44pm at 11:44 pm (UTC -4)
He is listed at $14 million because that’s what his salary for 2009 was. He was in fact paid $14 million. Detroit paid $13.6 mil of it and the Mets paid the balance, or $400,000 which is the ML minimum salary.
Detroit waived him, and no one claimed him because if they had then they (who claimed him) would’ve been responsible for the full $14 million. Once he cleared waivers, he was a free agent and signed with the Mets.
Below is the line relating to his 2009 pay on Cots.com:
signed by NY Mets as a free agent 4/4/09 (Mets pay $0.4M of 2009 salary, with Detroit responsible for $13.6M)
stickguy
10/27/2009-11:45pm at 11:45 pm (UTC -4)
He got 14mill. The Tigers just had to pay 13.6 of it.
And other teams passed on him since he was quite possibly shot, and had a bad reputation. The Tigers were happy to pay him to go away, which should tell you something!
and even HOFers (which I don’t think Sheff will be) reach the end of the line eventually.
trs86
10/28/2009-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
Do you really not understand baseball? Sheff came to the Mets because that is where he wanted to be and thought they had a great chance to win and a good chance for him to play.
NO one could pay him anymore than league minimum. Well they could, LOL, but the other team would get the money and not Sheff.
GravediggerHebner
10/27/2009-11:01pm at 11:01 pm (UTC -4)
Actually Phils09, maybe you should say the Phils are a miracle when it comes to performance and payroll.
Below is a bit of information compiled using both Fangraphs.com and Cots.com. Fangraphs assigns dollar values to players based on performance, and Cots has the actual contract figures.
I will list it as Name/Value ’09/Actual Pay ’09:
Utley / $34.5 mil / $11 mil
Howard / $22 mil / $15 mil
Werth / $21.3 mil / $2 mil
Ibanez / $18.6 mil / $6.5 mil
Victorino / $16.2 mil / $3.125 mil
Rollins / $11 mil / $7.5 mil
Ruiz / $10 mil / $0.475 mil
Feliz / $5.4 mil / $5 mil
Now to be fair, that’s just the 8 starting hitters. I haven’t done it for the whole team, or for any other team so I don’t have a broad basis for comparison yet. But on paper, alone, it looks like the Phils are getting a lot of bang for their player buck.
stickguy
10/27/2009-11:07pm at 11:07 pm (UTC -4)
It’s amazing what staying healthy and playing every day can do for a players value!
ALso, most of those guys are due serious raises next year, some really large (4-6mill large).
GravediggerHebner
10/27/2009-11:17pm at 11:17 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, I guess maybe you already know this but I was reading the formula they use to determine value and staying healthy and playing everyday does in fact play a large role in determining value.
Wright / $15 mil / $7.5 mil
Beltran / $13.8 mil / $18.5 mil
Pagan / $12.4 mil / $0.575 mil
Tatis / $6.8 mil / $1.7 mil
Castillo / $6.8 mil / $6 mil (a bargain?)
Santos / $4.6 mil / ? not listed
Too many injured guys to even fill a lineup.
Lidge is the big negative for the Phils. His actual salary is $11.5 mil but his value was negative $3.3 mil.
stickguy
10/27/2009-11:05pm at 11:05 pm (UTC -4)
like pris said, Cots, etc. show the players contract in full, not taking into acocunt who is paying it.
and yeah, the Phils hit the jackpot with the right group of prospects actually growing into their prime together (of course, suffering through some lousy years along the way), and mostly staying healthy! The FO did a good job with the right trades and FA signings, throw in some luck, and amazing good health, and there you go.
enjoy it while it last. As met fans know, things can change in a hurry!
Oh, and some news. The Phils ARE a large market team, when you do the match (considering the size of the Philly market relative to all the other teams in the league). They just weren’t smart enough to own Sportsnet!
metsfan4decades
10/27/2009-11:45pm at 11:45 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, but that’s all it was ‘entertaining’ the idea. It’s a smart move to at least talk to him and his agent. No Met fan though really thought they were serious about throwing that type of money at an unknown when we need to spend that money on more immediate needs the team has.
I’m expecting the Yankees, Angels maybe to make a serious offer.
stickguy
10/27/2009-10:38pm at 10:38 pm (UTC -4)
also, for all the comparisons of the team, don’t forget the biggie: the DH.
Obviously the Yankees have a real hitter to plug in. The Phils have what, matt Stairs?
I hate the DH.
metsfan4decades
10/27/2009-11:39pm at 11:39 pm (UTC -4)
‘I hate the DH’. Couldn’t agree more.
And based on the DH, I don’t know why stats guys are always throwing out there the higher BAs in the AL. Of course the team BA will be higher. Stands to reason since they’ve got 9 hitters in the lineup, vs. 8.
Just for starters….
To me the pitching and bench alone gives the Yankees the edge in this series. Since pitching trumps offense, going to be hard for the Phils to uh..win in 5.
stickguy
10/27/2009-11:43pm at 11:43 pm (UTC -4)
to be fair, the phils could easily beat the snot out of AJ or Petite. And Howard vs. Joba could be interesting.
They also beat up CC pretty good last year, but he is much more rested this year.
metsfan4decades
10/27/2009-11:48pm at 11:48 pm (UTC -4)
Anyone vs. Joba could be interesting – I’ll grant you that. He appears to always be to me one pitch away from a meltdown…
I don’t know about Petite though. Tons of experience pitching on the big stage in big moments.
I think AJ is their one weak link there.
Phillie have Lee.
I think Hamels suddenly stepping up to the plate with the less than stellar year and post season showing this year is a long shot.
Pedro vs. them Yanks is one match up I think will be very interesting indeed. We know Pedro is not short of experience in that arena.
stickguy
10/27/2009-11:00pm at 11:00 pm (UTC -4)
probably will get lost tonight, but an interesting topic on MLBTR: catcher trade possibilities.
Much better looking group than the FAs. And some are available mostly for slaary relief (and a few might be non tendered, so just more FAs)
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/10/trade-market-catchers.html#comments
Snyder and Doumit are quite interesting on the list. I would also be very happy to snag Shoppach, especially if he hit FA or came really cheap.
GravediggerHebner
10/27/2009-11:03pm at 11:03 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, I saw that earlier today, that was good reading. If nothing else it provides an “outside” opinion on who might be available in trade.
I look forward to them doing it for all positions.
stickguy
10/27/2009-11:10pm at 11:10 pm (UTC -4)
without them, I would have to depend on TRS to report on every obscure player in both leagues. MLBTR is way more efficient.
also points out how limiting it is to only focus on the FA pool, or big name trade guys like Halladay.
tons of other trades can be made, often for mid tier prospects, secondary ML guys, or just taking on salary.
GravediggerHebner
10/27/2009-11:25pm at 11:25 pm (UTC -4)
Hopefully I (or at least we) will make a post based on that here tomorrow.
The most interesting thing I took from the comments section is that at least 2 people believe the Mets acquiring Brandon Webb & Chris Snyder in a trade with the DBacks is a possibility.
stickguy
10/27/2009-11:40pm at 11:40 pm (UTC -4)
saw that. I expect though that Webb may be missing a chunk of the season.
although the DBs might just be looking to get out from his salary and get something in return, as opposed to just paying the buy out. At 8.5 mill, someone will take a flyer on him. Or heck, throw in 2 mill (the buyout amount) and get better talent back!
GravediggerHebner
10/27/2009-11:47pm at 11:47 pm (UTC -4)
Whoops! I’ve been operating on the theory that Webb is expected healthy by opening day. If that’s not the case then I need to rethink my position on acquiring him (which has been pretty strongly in favor).
metsfan4decades
10/27/2009-11:36pm at 11:36 pm (UTC -4)
Add to that a team’s smart scouting analysis and/or GM and the ability to pick up off waivers and from the rule 5 and you can easily add to the talent pool.
Of course, the FO has to have the smarts to get the job done.
Here’s hoping.
GravediggerHebner
10/27/2009-11:49pm at 11:49 pm (UTC -4)
One thing I’m not at all diplomatic about is the front office.
I have little hope that Omar can get the job done after his bizarre Adam Rubin outburst at the Bernazard firing. I had mild confidence in him prior to that, I lost it that day.
metsfan4decades
10/27/2009-11:56pm at 11:56 pm (UTC -4)
I’m with you on that. I’m actually hoping his scouts/analysts are smarter than he is and he actually listens to them. Since we’re ‘stuck’ with him probably another year, its the best I think we can hope for……
I keep reading how that tight knit world of GMs actually like and respect Omar. If that’s true, maybe he’s far better at the negotiations than he is evaluating talent.
I realize he’s signed a couple of bad contracts (Castillo for 4 years and that money and of course, Ollie – for example) but he’s made some good moves too. Whether or not they were actually his idea to begin with we’ll probably never know….
darknova306
10/28/2009-6:09am at 6:09 am (UTC -4)
Don’t forget that Castillo contract was handed to him in the off-season where he was about to get surgery on both knees. In Omar we trust….
trs86
10/28/2009-8:51am at 8:51 am (UTC -4)
And other teams were willing to go 3/21. But regardless, bad idea.
darknova306
10/28/2009-6:08am at 6:08 am (UTC -4)
I lost my last shred of confidence when he re-signed Ollie. That was the final straw.
trs86
10/28/2009-8:49am at 8:49 am (UTC -4)
Hey, was that a knock on me or praise? LOL.