Nov 12
It is likely Figgins, who will be 32 next season, will demand a three- or four-year contract at between $8 million to $10 million annually.
(3-4 years 24-40 million for a 32 year old Figgins? and why in the heck should Jerry Manuel be allowed to give so much input on moves that will effect us for the next 3-4 years?)
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115 comments
GravediggerHebner
11/12/2009-6:22pm at 6:22 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t argue with the premise that Figgins’ (or “Friggins” as I like to call him) versatility would help if the Mets had another spate of injuries, but I also think that another spate of injuries like 2009 would sort of be the horrible version of me winning the Lotto jackpot in consecutive weeks, falling somewhere between incredibly unlikely and statistically impossible.
It has been said by people much smarter than I that Friggins value is as a 3B.
I don’t hate the idea as long as it involves either Friggins playing 2B and Castillo being on another team (and I am a Castillo supporter), or the less likely permutation of Friggins at 3B and Wright moving to 1B. But if it’s to play Friggins primarily in LF, I vote no.
gipperpdx
11/12/2009-6:41pm at 6:41 pm (UTC -4)
NOT for LF…need to add power somewhere, and LF is our best chance. At 2b, ok, even if the spelling of his first name makes me shake my head every time I read it.
wannybackstra
11/12/2009-6:43pm at 6:43 pm (UTC -4)
Can’t imagine Figgins one asset, speed, being very strong at age 35 or 36.
metfreak
11/12/2009-6:49pm at 6:49 pm (UTC -4)
Figgins and Wolf and Omar telling us Mission accomplished
trs86
11/12/2009-7:43pm at 7:43 pm (UTC -4)
That’s not normal for Omar. Only one year that he has not gotten one of the biggest names.
wannybackstra
11/12/2009-8:13pm at 8:13 pm (UTC -4)
Figgins may qualify as one of the bigger names this year.
trs86
11/12/2009-8:31pm at 8:31 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe I guess, but Omar has usually gotten a bigger name than that.
stickguy
11/12/2009-7:47pm at 7:47 pm (UTC -4)
This would not be good IMO.
I was leery of bring Omar back, but figured he might rise to the occasion. Now, I am afraid that he may torpedo the team entirely.
And I agree that no one should care in the least what Jerrythinks. if he makes the end of the year, I will be shocked.
trs86
11/12/2009-8:32pm at 8:32 pm (UTC -4)
So far I am ok. Looks like he is trying to unload Castillo so that is step one right?
stickguy
11/12/2009-9:23pm at 9:23 pm (UTC -4)
yeah, that is good. It’s what he brings in that worries me.
fongy2
11/12/2009-7:59pm at 7:59 pm (UTC -4)
I believe this when it actually happens! I’ve always liked Figgins
alot BUT anymore than 3yrs seems
excessive. Also,while its not normal
for me…with him,I’ll take Omar at his word or rumor of his word and
consider Figgins our 2Bman and be
happy to get rid of Luis”Aches&Pain”
A.K.A. “Mush”Castillo…for anything.
Since it appears we won’t be in the mix for Lackey, if by some chance
Halladay really was available and he
saved the likes of FMart tec to get him, well…that sounds good to me.
I don’t believe theres anyway we get
Holliday and Bay I think is very unlikely however, if Omar ended up
with a Trio of Figgins,Halladay and
lets say Mike Cameron, I’d be happy.
wannybackstra
11/12/2009-8:18pm at 8:18 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not sure why Omar or anyone else considers Figgins a sure thing for second base. He’s started only 86 games there in his career (113 games total) to not such a good result: -8.5 UZR/150
The most games he started there were 36 in 2005 to which he fielded to the tune of -10.8 UZR/150.
He’s also hardly played LF and totals -6.4 UZR/150 in his outfield play (which is mostly in CF) in 260 starts.
He’s been a very good 3B, 8.0 UZR/150 for his career, but especially in his last two seasons: 18.8 and 13.8. He belongs at 3B.
GravediggerHebner
11/12/2009-8:25pm at 8:25 pm (UTC -4)
One wonders if Omar is familiar with such things as UZR. If he were, perhaps his winter meetings trade last year would’ve been Joe Smith for Franklin Gutierrez, period.
Also I agree with what you said above about Figgins qualifying as one of the big names in FA this year.
trs86
11/12/2009-8:34pm at 8:34 pm (UTC -4)
Hmmm, not sure I understand the part on Gutierrez. It would have taken more than that in just a two team deal right? But anyway, I am sure if we have heard of it Omar has. Now does he believe in it? I have no idea.
GravediggerHebner
11/12/2009-8:44pm at 8:44 pm (UTC -4)
I didn’t mean that Omar hadn’t “heard” of it, I just submit that he may lack “familiarity” with it. I can’t say one way or the other about Omar on that, but the reason I even consider it a possibility is because the manager he hired has an open disdain for statistics.
And yes you are correct, the Indians got 23 yo 2B Luis Valbuena from Seattle, too. Considering that the Mets gave up 7 players total in that deal I believe they could’ve found a way to satisfy Cleveland for Gutierrez. I recall Omar describing the trade to reporters and saying that when he contacted Cleveland about Gutierrez, Shapiro’s first question was “to keep or to flip?” So the “to keep” option was at least out there for a second.
trs86
11/12/2009-8:55pm at 8:55 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, but what would we have had to give to get Putz? A player we desperately needed at the time?
I just find it hard to believe that we are more familiar on anything baseball related than the Mets front office.
GravediggerHebner
11/12/2009-9:13pm at 9:13 pm (UTC -4)
I am not making myself clear on either point. I will try one more time but then I’m going to watch a little football before I go to bed.
I am speaking about the trade in a hypothetical way, one in which the subsequent Putz trade never occurred. Simply looking at it as the Mets acquiring Gutierrez from the Indians.
Last spring LF was handed to a guy who’d never played it, and as soon as the regular season started it was apparent what a tremendous mistake that was.
I am simply musing about how the season may have unfolded differently if the Mets had Gutierrez, a more than competent defender in LF instead of Murphy, and in doing that I’m not even considering the eventual acquisition of Putz, I’m basically pretending the trade didn’t take that next step to Seattle and to Putz.
Basically I am trying to imagine a moment in time when, instead of acquiring a closer to set up just after acquiring a closer to close, Omar could have instead acquired a LF to play LF as opposed to going with Murphy out there. The team had 2 closers and no LF essentially.
Please understand, I loved the Putz deal at the time, I am not poo pooing it now. Just wondering aloud how the season might’ve been different if instead of doubling up on closers Omar had valued OF defense.
As far as the UZR familiarity, I am not suggesting that we are more familiar with it than anyone in the Mets front office. I am barely familiar with it. I make no claim to anything but the most rudimentary understanding of it.
I simply am again wondering, this time wondering how much if any thought the Met front office gives to such things. It is apparent that the Seattle front office does, they asked for and received Gutierrez because of it.
I agree that it is hard to believe that we might be more familiar with “anything baseball related” than the Mets front office. In fact I made a rather long comment this morning specifically about that, essentially saying no matter how smart we think we are there is always going to be a lot we just don’t and can’t know, and that despite knowing what I don’t know I wasn’t going to allow that to prevent me from speculating on trades or other things related to being in a front office.
If we did allow that knowledge to prevent our speculation, we should just close down this site because it would be useless.
And we would never get to have near miss conversations like this in which I understand what I am trying to express very clearly but am seemingly incapable of expressing it so that anyone else might understand it.
Good night, and good luck. See you back in the trenches tomorrow afternoon.
trs86
11/13/2009-8:04am at 8:04 am (UTC -4)
LOL, thanks Grave.
My point was that possibly they know about it but do not think that it’s valid or use an entirely different system than we even know about.
johan4cy
11/12/2009-8:47pm at 8:47 pm (UTC -4)
Figgins is not what the team needs right now. They need a legitimate power threat
trs86
11/12/2009-8:55pm at 8:55 pm (UTC -4)
That’s not to say that they can’t get both.
johan4cy
11/12/2009-9:38pm at 9:38 pm (UTC -4)
whats wrong with castillo at second? why wast a power spot in lef on figgins?
trs86
11/13/2009-8:05am at 8:05 am (UTC -4)
As I was saying, you can have Figgins in at 2B or LF and upgrade LF, 2B or 1B with a power player. I think that is what Jerry means with his comment.
Kingman 26
11/12/2009-10:24pm at 10:24 pm (UTC -4)
This is a tough one, but I think I am with Metro.
Lots of dough for a guy who is good, but not great.
For a real red flag, check out Figgins’ postseason numbers—REALLY impressively bad; almost shockingly bad.
Sign Cameron for 1–2 years, save tens of millions, and sign lots of pitchers.
CaseStreet
11/12/2009-10:36pm at 10:36 pm (UTC -4)
Hmm pay foggy 10m or pagan 500k?
I’ll take Crawford in themiddle and twice the production of either one
Kingman 26
11/12/2009-10:40pm at 10:40 pm (UTC -4)
Geez, you really make a good point there!
Gotta say no to Figgy, and he probably re-signs with the Anaheim Angels of Los Angeles, Orange County, Southern California, etc….
trs86
11/13/2009-8:06am at 8:06 am (UTC -4)
Crawford in the middle? How is he in the middle? He will cost as much or more than either and will also cost top prospects. It’s like the Halladay Lackey debate only Halladay is a HOF.
CaseStreet
11/13/2009-8:48am at 8:48 am (UTC -4)
Meant Crawford
CaseStreet
11/13/2009-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
Cameron
Cameron
Cameron
prismo
11/13/2009-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
lawl
CaseStreet
11/12/2009-10:25pm at 10:25 pm (UTC -4)
Idk ifthey want speed in lf go fir Crawford evn endy is a better fit than Sean
Kingman 26
11/12/2009-10:34pm at 10:34 pm (UTC -4)
Crawford might be the very best guy we could get….10 mil in 2010, and he is better than Figgins.
Reyes and Crawford 1-2 in a lineup is absolutely tantalizing.
But Cameron is an ex-Mariner AND an ex-Met….
trs86
11/13/2009-8:07am at 8:07 am (UTC -4)
I can’t even read that comment. LOL. I guess you mean Chone?
CaseStreet
11/13/2009-8:51am at 8:51 am (UTC -4)
I know how to spell chone
u try typing while walking ur dog
trs86
11/13/2009-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
I think the problem is U are 2 hip for me.
prismo
11/13/2009-8:30am at 8:30 am (UTC -4)
I hope you didn’t drive home!
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
LOL!
whataputz
11/12/2009-10:35pm at 10:35 pm (UTC -4)
I really like Figgins, and love the idea of a line-up starting with Reyes and Figgins. I know he doesn’t have too much experience at second base, but if we can move Castillo (Props to you Luis for your 2009 season) I’m willing to “risk” putting figgins there. I know a 3 or 4 year deal might sound scary, but as far as the 2010 season goes, and that’s over a hundred days away, and then the 2012 season is a long long ways away so I’m really not going to fret over giving him an extra year or two, it’s a good move. His impact this year could be very great. If we could add Figgins, and unload Castillo, and sign or trade for a legit 1b bat, we’re talking about a very nice line-up.
Reyes Figgins Beltran First Basemen Wright Frenchy Santos/Thole Pagan? pitcher.
Still pretty weak at the end, but that’s a dynamite 1-6.
Kingman 26
11/12/2009-10:44pm at 10:44 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, but check out Crawford; maybe we could get him for prospects–he is basically the same player as Jose—imagine he and Jose 1-2….
trs86
11/13/2009-8:10am at 8:10 am (UTC -4)
At this point the edge goes to Crawford over Jose, but in my opinion that is why he would cost a ton. If they were in fire sell mode I would say great get them to trade Crawford with Burrell or Pena to relieve salary. But from what I can tell they are not. They are looking to compete next year and then maybe rebuild the next. So in MY opinion Crawford is on the Rays until July.
wannybackstra
11/12/2009-10:47pm at 10:47 pm (UTC -4)
not if your cleanup hitting first baseman is dave magadan.
Kingman 26
11/12/2009-10:51pm at 10:51 pm (UTC -4)
Ah, who could produce less with a .300 BA than Magadan??
trs86
11/13/2009-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
Castillo?
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
And we may have a winner!!
CaseStreet
11/13/2009-9:06am at 9:06 am (UTC -4)
Who would you want at 2B?
Polanco
Phillips
lopez
Hudson
figgins
beltre?
prismo
11/13/2009-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
Castillo, or if he’s traded Hudson on a 2 year deal.
Figgins doesn’t have enough 2B experience to merit the contract he’ll get.
Lopez is a TERRIBLE defender, and the Mets should improve their defense, not worsen it.
CaseStreet
11/13/2009-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
oh prismo
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
I am sure he meant TIM Hudson…or perhaps Henry….
trs86
11/13/2009-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Prismo, did Cerrone steal your ID?
Lopez is a MUCH better defender than Odawg. Errors are a terrible way to judge a player, every defensive stat other than errors points to Lopez being very good. If you use UZR (usually pretty good for 2B) it shows him as the 5th best 2B at 7.8 and the 2nd best range in baseball. In comparison Hudson’s UZR was 13th at -3.3 and that’s out of 20 that qualified (Castillo at the bottowm with -10.4) So actually Hudson is closer to Castillo than he is to Lopez.
wannybackstra
11/13/2009-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Prismo’s concerns about Lopez’s defense are valid, but overstated. You can’t just look at one season. He was -8.1 UZR/150 at 2B in 2008. He’s at 2.6 for his career. Not to mention he was a terrible short stop.
That’s what scares me with him. His offensive and defensive performances are all over the map, from stellar to league average or below. To me, he’s a utility player, not a starter.
trs86
11/13/2009-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Hmm for 2nd base it seems like 2008 may have been (?) the outlier for him. He was pretty good in limited time there in 2007 and bad in 2008 and very good in 2009.
wannybackstra
11/13/2009-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
There’s no such thing as an outlier when there’s only two seasons to choose from.
40 games in 2007 is useless.
If anything his body of work at SS suggests that his 2008 at 2B is the outlier.
trs86
11/13/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
You have a point that he has not been a good SS but I think 2B is yet to be determined as you said. To me he would be an upgrade over Castillo. Even his negative in 2008 was much better than Castillo’s this season.
wannybackstra
11/13/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
I agree that his bad is better than Castillo’s bad and that he is still an unknown at 2B.
But you don’t just want to go from really bad to bad do you?
If we have a chance to improve at the position shouldn’t we try to make it a plus, rather than slightly less of a minus?
wannybackstra
11/13/2009-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Here’s why his 40 game sample in 2007 is useless. His UZR was 2.4. It became 9.8 when it was extrapolated out to 150 games (hence UZR/150). A lot could have happened in those 100 games that could have affected that number.
So, in effect, 2.4 over 40 games is relatively meaningless and is as good as neutral.
So his time at 2B — like the rest of his career — has been bad, okay and good at various points.
prismo
11/13/2009-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
I had a response, and then TRDMB shut down and deleted it. AWESOME.
Anyway, he’s had negative fielding value (fangraphs) in 6 of his 8 years.
He’s had an OPS below .740 in 6 of his 8 years as well.
Are you sure this is an upgrade over Castillo? Because I’m sure as heck not.
trs86
11/13/2009-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
Upgrade defensively over Castillo? Yes
Upgrade offensively over Castillo? Maybe
Hudson?
Defense sprinting down hill
Dodgers need a 2nd baseman and are not even talking to him and are talking to us about Castillo.
prismo
11/13/2009-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
Hudson sprinting downhill defensively?
Check out the stats – he had a better defensive year in 2009 than in 2008 (not to mention a gold glove).
Everyone wanted Hudson after 2008, but after his defensive metrics improve you complain about his defense?
Not wanting Hudson is just the latest bandwagon for Mets fans to get on.
I wouldn’t support a 3+ year deal for him, but 2 years for a reasonable salary (which might be all he’d get) would not be a bad investment, assuming Castillo’s traded and off the book.
But I’m seriously fine with keeping Castillo and focusing on 1B/LF/SP/RP.
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
What the heck are you talking about??
NO ONE wanted the comically overrated Hudson!
Hello??
He was BENCHED down the stretch and in the postseason, and the Dodgers have zero desire to bring him back.
Prismo, can you cite a shred of evidence that ANYONE on the planet thinks Hudson is a great leader, other than some very confused Met fans?
Wanting Hudson is a bandwagon loaded with folks who are kidding themselves.
prismo
11/13/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
I never said anything about his being a leader…let alone a “great” one. Before I put forth evidence proving that, can you show me some evidence of where I claimed it in the first place??
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
No I cannot, and fine point….but, you do say that “Everyone wanted Hudson after 2008″—who and where are all of these folks?
He signed a small 1-yr deal with the one team that had any interest, he got benched, and sat during the playoffs. And the Dodgers have apparently zero desire to bring him back.
Why would you want him? Seriously, why?
In the 2nd half last year, compare his and Slappy’s production…
prismo
11/13/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
I don’t want him, but if Castillo’s traded I think (with the right contract) he’s a very viable candidate for 2B. I really would rather just leave Castillo be unless Omar pulls off some miracle trade where we shed his salary and get someone decent.
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
Thank you sir, and I agree totally that keeping Castillo and focusing elsewhere is a fine idea…
trs86
11/13/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Gold glove? Are we really using that as a stat considering Wright won it last year?
Yes I say sprinting down hill. In 2005 he was at 8.2, since then he has been negative every year except for one season when he was .5. The fact that he went from -5.1 to -3.3 this year does not mean that Hudson is improving.
The guy got benched for THE TOUNGE. How can anyone even defend that?
I never wanted Hudson last year and thought he was vastly overrated and do not want him this year unless it’s a 1 year deal for about 3 million.
wannybackstra
11/13/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
In my mind Chase Utley has two gold gloves in each of the last two seasons, even if I have to draw them on paper and place them there for him.
I think the majority of this board — whom I confident in saying is better informed than many Mets fans — was opposed to bringing in Hudson last offseason.
prismo
11/13/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
For the record, I was opposed as well – mainly because of Castillo’s contract though.
trs86
11/13/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
I wish I could say that Wanny but a lot of posters on the old blog were Odawg crazy. You are right in the fact that we brought the good ones though.
prismo
11/13/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
And again, I’m not HUGE on Hudson. I think 2B is one of the dumbest positions to have such a debate about considering we have someone signed for another season who had a decent year in 2009. There are much more viable positions to discuss that actually need to be filled.
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Now THAT is a great point!
trs86
11/13/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
-10+ UZR is not really a decent year is it?
trs86
11/13/2009-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
I mean no Castillo is not the biggest problem. However if we can unload him to improve 2B then why not? It’s not like we can’t do more than one thing at a time.
CaseStreet
11/13/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Considering there’s been many rumors that Omar is trying to trade Castillo, I think it’s a very valid reason to discuss 2B.
wannybackstra
11/13/2009-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
Given the relative costs, I’d go with Polanco.
And I’m not convinced he wouldn’t be the best option regardless of costs. Phillips is obviously a more dynamic player but there’s something not quite there with him and I’m not sure his personality/attitude would go over well on this team. Polanco seems like just the right kind of player and business like person this team needs.
fongy2
11/13/2009-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
I won’t go beyond THIS post either on the
subject. I spent waaayy
too much time defending
Delgado here(and on you
know whos blog) over the yrs AND have always
been a huge fan of his,
BUT its time to move on! Change the dynamic in the clubhouse and
talent on the field.
I do agree though that Murphy could use a veteran caddy @1B,but
a righty hitting one.
As for 2B,I’m affraid
were gonna be stuck
w/Castillo b/c while at first teams may be interested in flipping
one of their bad contracts,the more you
examine what your likely to get from
him,I think they’d rather go with the devil they know.
wannybackstra
11/13/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
hmmm… ok.
trs86
11/13/2009-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Maybe Polanco needs a change of teams for his offensive numbers. Hopefully they were just down last year as a fluke but his OBP and SLG were both down last year. .331 OPB and .396 SLG is not very good leading to a 41 point drop in his OPS this year.
fongy2
11/13/2009-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
You can’t get a word outta Beltran
and when you can, he puts his foot
in it. Now hes advocating bringing
back Delgado?Claiming theres no risk
in doing so?Beltran, how ’bout tryin’
to support the kid trying to learn
the position now?
Ya see guys,while I really do love and
appreciate Beltrans ability on the field,this is the stuff which drives
me crazy about him….The turning back to the yankees after agreeing to sign with us,his need to have a protector in the clubhouse like Delgado,the bunting w/guys on 1st&2nd and no out and his complete lack of leadership skills. Not exactly what
I thought we were getting for 17mil a yr for 7yrs.
Let the attacks begin!
trs86
11/13/2009-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Nah, I am going to leave that mess alone because we have done it too many times.
But as for Delgado IF the Mets are not going to upgrade 1B I have no problem with Delgado coming in for CHEAP and Murphy being his caddy. If healthy there is no doubt Delgado produces more. If not healthy then he becomes Sheff last year.
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Gotta throw this out there—how and where did Hudson get this utterly ridiculous reputation? How? Where?
Does anyone have any evidence that there is a person actually IN MLB who thinks Hudson is a great gritty leader with balls bigger than MANNYCOUPONS’ heart?
WHY do people think Hudson is such a leader??
OK, when thinking about it, I do now remember how Davey Johnson benched Keith for the stretch runs and playoffs, and how Keith led from the bench. And yeah, Jeter and Reggie were also benched for some postseason series as well.
fongy2
11/13/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
I’m all for Polanco,Phillips
and Scutaro…In that order
for 2B…BUT I think we’re
gonna see Mush Aches&Pains
again there come opening day.
trs86
11/13/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
I can’t find it either. I looked last year when everyone was saying it. The comments about him being a winner.
The guy got his first post season AB’s this year and that was from the bench.
wannybackstra
11/13/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
He must carry a big bat!
fongy2
11/13/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
I was feeling a little stir-crazy
waiting on Omar to do something…
anything, then it came back to me…
Lets take this slowly.
Because with Omar, ya never know
whats really going on.
Cleaning up my Mets/Steelers man-cave
lastnight, I started flipping through
some old year books etc.
And it struck me once again, just how
destuctive these couple/three weeks
following the season were to our
future after the 2006 season.
During that period,Omar replaced Cliffy with an equally oft-injured yet
much older player in Alou.
Then decided neither Bradford nor Oliver were worth multi-year deals
And traded both Lindstrom and Bell
for basically nothing.
Think about how dif 2007&2008 might
have been with those four in the Pen
and some other LF/RBI guy in the 5/6
spot.
wannybackstra
11/13/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Well, if he’s got a chance to trade Castillo for Chris Davis then he’d better not wait until Jon Daniels and Jim hendry realize how stupid they are acting.
fongy2
11/13/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Agreed but why would they want Castillo?
Kinsler-Elvis&Young
w/Vizquez coming back
in their infield.
wannybackstra
11/13/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
The rumor was that Texas would get Bradley back in a three way deal with the Cubs getting Castillo.
I think I heard on ESPN yesterday that Vizquel likely won’t be back in Texas and is looking for a similar opportunity elsewhere…
fongy2
11/13/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Yeah,my bad I’m
a little out of it today,
b/t/w’
I read that Vizquel was leaning toward returning to the Rangers.
On mlbtraderumors…I think
CaseStreet
11/13/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
I’d be down for Vizquel on the bench.
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
How about Hudson for the bench?
Apparently that is where gritty leaders spend the postseason!!
trs86
11/13/2009-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
LOL, now that’s funny.
I would however keep a check on Lopez for the bench if we can’t trade Castillo.
trs86
11/13/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
I still have no problems in trading Lindstrom or Bell. The Alou move was bad because to me they were doing what they did last year in saving a spot for a prospect. Bradford and Oliver did not bother me either. Middle relief is so sporatic and Oliver had never been good. It was hard to justify 3 years for a ROOGY, even though Omar turned around and gave it to a LOOGY.
fongy2
11/13/2009-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Thats fine BUT take a look at what all these
guys then did in ’07&’08.
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
True, but have you ever taken a look at Darren Oliver’s stats as a starter in TEX? HORRIBLE!
So, I cannot blame Omar for figuring he got lightning in a bottle with Oliver, who no one could have expected to be as good as he was for us.
I saw him pitch in Seattle with the Rangers, and he threw batting practice.
But, the Lindstrom/Owens trade was awful. Sorry TRS, and I know we have been through this, but you just cannot trade the two hardest throwers in the system in one fell swoop, especially to a team with a vastly better scouting department than ours.
wannybackstra
11/13/2009-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
The problem isn’t that he traded Lindstrom, who despite his big arm is injury prone and not very good. The problem is that he traded the organization’s biggest arm and got nothing useful back in return.
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I totally agree, and that is what I meant….how good Owens and Lindstrom are is really irrelevant…it was still an awful deal in my estimation.
trs86
11/13/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
I still think Vargas we a good gamble. The guy had been rushed to the majors and was still a young LHSP with options. Lindstrom was an old AA player who would have been lost anyway if not on the team.
fongy2
11/13/2009-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Darren Oliver wasn’t
a starter
for us.
And shouldn’t Omar have seen that Oliver had finally found his niche as
a Pitcher?
The great talent evaluator himself.
Isn’t that his job?
But I got your point.
I’ll not argue
today.
Not feelin’ well,nursing a ankle and knee
injury.
Just making a point and as always taking a shot at the Teflon Don!
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, maybe so; but as someone who nearly projectile vomited when we got Oliver after actually seeing him pitch live, and as I was shocked at every good outing he had, I can empathize with your good buddy Omar Teflon in not bringing him back.
Of course, Omar and I were wrong on that one!
fongy2
11/13/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
You don’t trade away guys who throw 100MPH.
Only as a last resort
and after yrs of them failing.
Especially when they’re not making any money.
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Well said!
Nolan Ryan anyone??
trs86
11/13/2009-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
What we forget is how he was close to being lost anyway. The guy was old and in AA. I still see no problem with it. Two guys who were old and in AA that threw hard and straight for 2 young LHSP. Backfired yes but it’s not like Owens has done anything and Lindstrom is uh not much.
fongy2
11/13/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Old?? More like never given much of a chance and bottom line/results…Its worked out real well for us huh?
trs86
11/13/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Old for a AA guy yes.
trs86
11/13/2009-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
The guy in 2005 had an ERA over 5.00 and a WHIP of 1.977.
Sent back down to A ball his numbers in a limited sample got better. Then back to AA and he was able to lower that to a 1.37 WHIP but was very hittable at 9.3 hits per 9 innings.
At 26 years old and still struggling in AA ball I don’t see it as a big loss OR as the Mets not giving him a chance. He was quickly approaching minor league FA as that was his 5th season in the minors.
stickguy
11/13/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
tis might be a risky time, but heck, you still can’t actually sign a FA, right? SO at least wait until the hunting season opens to start getting on Omar for having no plan (or a lousy one!)
fongy2
11/13/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
b/t/w, fellas is matt still pissed
at you guys? ’cause I notice on his
blog that he cites alot of other blogs
and their thoughts and stories BUT
not TRDMB lately.
Also, TRS when are you gonna start
twittering your daily movements like
our old friend the blog nazi?
Maybe we’d be interested in knowing whether you had oatmeal or cream of wheat this morning. One cup of coffee
or two and where you’re going next.
Whats for lunch? Veal parm? or you
goin’ with the meatball hero today?
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
And what hose did he finally help his parents select?? Inquiring minds want to know!!
trs86
11/13/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
Aw man, I thought I was looking for a house. I must have really screwed up.
But yeah we found them one but the problem is now the guy who was buying their house can’t get a loan. Life.
trs86
11/13/2009-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
I don’t have to, my daily movements are right here. LOL. Cerrone gets paid to do his job and is there less than me.
CaseStreet
11/13/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
I’m having a movement right now, and it doesn’t feel good.
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
Damn, Case posts while his dog AND he are having movements…now THAT is dedication.
CaseStreet
11/13/2009-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
LOL. like trs, my daily movements are here, too
prismo
11/13/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
LOL. Do you see Matt’s tweets? They’re cringe-worthy. Everyday the same format.
“Today: Writing for Metsblog on the train into NYC. Emailing hundreds of people about Hot Stove (actually, mostly it’s just my grandma). Then having lunch with someone semi-famous to boost my low self-esteem and attempt to raise my credibility.”
(I may have taken some liberties…)
trs86
11/13/2009-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
Oh my, that’s something right there.
Kingman 26
11/13/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
I think the really funny part is that the lunch partner he considers semi-famous is probably Ted “Ferris” Berg or Mike “7-Man Lineup” Nichols….
fongy2
11/13/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Sign Kenny Powers!