 Time for this weeks plan. I am sure some of you will call me out for switching again. However, my premise remains the same. The Mets have a ton of options they can use to be competitive in the NL again.
There will be a couple of very accomplished older gentlemen looking for a job this off-season. They both have lots of negatives to go with their potentially very positive bats. Another interesting link is that they both could fill slots for the 2010 Mets with very little commitment both in cash and years. Another interesting link with the Mets is that they would both have backups who could and did start with some success last year in Murphy and Pagan. So lets think this one out a little. Delgado and Dye should both come on incentive based contracts. Lets say the total is 8 million to start with and could reach 20 million with incentives. That leaves the Mets with plenty of money to go get guys like Lackey/Halladay and another mid-rotation guy like Wolf/Marquis/Piniero.Â
The lineup would be patched: Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Delgado, Dye, Frenchy, Santos has a lot of potential. Again you would have the ability to give Delgado and Dye plenty of rest with Murphy and Pagan on the bench.
The rotation would be very solid: Johan, Lackey/Doc, Wolf/Marquis/Piniero, Pelfrey, Perez/Maine. This would also allow you more freedom to trade Pelfrey for Doc.
Total price on this could easily be within budget and yet does not lock them into anything for the next year but the #2 pitcher.
Thoughts on plan #345?
28 comments
saltygary
11/30/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
I think Delgado needs to demonstrate that he is healthy now. We know he can be productive and we know he can handle NYC. If the team can get him for either an incentive or fair contract, it would not be a bad idea at all.
Dye is a nice player but I wonder if the contract requirements would be too high since he is a known commodity. I doubt it would be an incentive laden contract, since he has had full and productive seasons for the last six years. He would give the Mets some more power with a lower AVR and a good amount of strike outs. At this point the guy is 35 and I bet there is some cheaper youth out there that would put up the same and if not better numbers.
oleosmirf
11/30/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Jermaine Dye for 1 year would be perfect. Marlon Byrd or some other fluke players for less money is not the way to go…
Either spend the money on the top guys, or dont spend it at all…
whataputz
11/30/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
Definately agree with that last statement. We’ve got to get at least one start, either a huge bat or a #2. Sure signing a bunch of mediocre guys can fill all the holes, but it’s still going to be with mediocre play! Sure Wolf and Marquis fill 2 spots as opposed to Lackey filling 1, but do you really want Wolf starting game 2 of the NLCS? someones gotta step up and back johan up. Its gotten to the point when Johan has a bad start we’re done for the week.
stickguy
11/30/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
A resonable concept (but give me time, I will get to the issues with the details shortly!)
Delgado does make some sense, since he should be at least competant at 1B (at least he is experienced). And hopefully a fixed hip will help his range of motion a bit. Playing winter ball should let him show he is healthy enough. But, will some other team offer up more cash, and a DH fall back option?
Dye’s bat could be intriguing. But, I think he will get offered more than that $ wise, but who knows.
The big issue? No more statues in the OF, especially since CF has a fairly spacious one. Put a premium on defense please, since that wil lmake every pitcher ont he staff better (pretty much found money).
I worry that Dye has passed from OK to downright scary as an OF, and is likely looking for (and being looked at for) a job as a DH, at least some of the time.
still, conceptually, relatively cheap 1 year guys, if they manage to hang onto the nearer term prospects (F mart, Kirk N for the OF and of course Davis), it is a fabulous idea to make a run at the prize in 2010, while still looking to build a sustained winner for 2011+
joed
11/30/2009-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
I think having both Delgado and Dye in the lineup changes everything offensively and makes the Mets a juggernaut. My only fear is whether Dye can cover the expansive leftfield of CitiField. And of course we must first be assured that Delgado is 100% healthy. I dont want him at 90% because we all know he wont play hurt, so either all or nothing with him.
whataputz
11/30/2009-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
That’s way too risky. two grandpas, no thanks. I’m all for Delgado, but Dye can go elsewhere.
GravediggerHebner
11/30/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
I agree with you guys. I just can’t endorse a plan that involves a starting OF role for such a negative defender, especially considering that Johan Santana, Oliver Perez and John Maine, 3/5 of the alleged 2010 starting staff, are fly ball pitchers.
GB/FB ratio
Maine 0.80
Santana 0.75
Perez 0.55
DNDJohan aka kistics
11/30/2009-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Who do you think the better option is here? I don’t know if Holliday or Bay would be THAT much better defensively, but very costly.
OFs that would match Dye’s offensive numbers/salary requirements and better defense are Cameron and Ankiel maybe.
saltygary
11/30/2009-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Not that I would really want cameron back but I would take him over Dye. Same numbers except for more SO, SB and better defensively.
GravediggerHebner
11/30/2009-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t have an obvious answer, other than Cameron but I keep reading that LF is his distinct second choice, and I can’t imagine he’s excited about running into Carlos Beltran again any time soon.
I am willing to put aside this desire for 30-35 HR from a LF if instead they can give me 18-23 and field well. I think the perfect guy to do that signed with the White Sox for $500,000 the other day.
I know it’s not fair, but I don’t have the name(s) to give you. I know what I don’t want much more than I know how to find what I do want, and I don’t want Dye. He’s been a negative defender in RF every year of his career except one (2004) and at 36 and slow, I don’t see him having the second positive year of his career out there.
stickguy
11/30/2009-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
Oh yeah, instead of Dye, Cameron might be a better option for this. Shouldn’t be a ton of moey or years, and at least he can still play D.
DNDJohan aka kistics
11/30/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Question is… Will Delgado and Dye sign with the Mets for that contract? Delgado may, but I don’t know about Dye. I’m pretty sure Dye will get multi year contracts without incentives. So, what’s the incentive for Dye to sign with the Mets? I don’t think he has one. I believe only way to sign Dye is to give him something like 2/18. I think AL teams will certainly offer him a DH position 2/16 type of deal.
CaseStreet
11/30/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Dye and Delgado should be AL DHs. Dye has been one of the worst defenders over the past few years and his offense is on the decline.
Give me Lackey, Cameron and LaRoche
Or
lackey, wolf and Cameron
or
doc, sheets and Cameron
DNDJohan aka kistics
11/30/2009-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
I like all the options.
Kingman 26
11/30/2009-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
Doc, Sheets and Cameron please!
oleosmirf
11/30/2009-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
how about spending more to get Doc, Lackey and Cameron
Kingman 26
11/30/2009-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
I am trying to be realistic.
35 mil a year for two pitchers? Not reasonable to expect. Of course, a rotation of Johan, Doc, Lackey as the top three would be the dream offseason, even if the only other move was Cameron. With a rotation like that, we could easily afford Murph at 1B and a C platoon of Santos/Thole.
But if we get Doc, we don’t need to grossly overspend on Lackey, who has been hurt the last two years and will command MUCH more than he is worth as he is the only serious free agent starter out there.
But if Jeffy tells Omar to go for it, I would be absolutely thrilled. After all, it’s not my money!
oleosmirf
11/30/2009-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
Murphy is fine at 1B until when/if Davis is ready. Its LF where there is a black hole and Angel Pagan is not the answer.
We need someone with some pop out there. Doesnt have to be a superstar but we need power other than Wright, Beltran and Francouer
trs86
11/30/2009-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
Define “fine”.
stickguy
11/30/2009-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
good enough to get the job done?
I’m looking for about what he did in the 2nd half. Say an OPS of ~.800 (.350/.450 range), with good range and improving basics at 1B. Maybe 15-20 range for HRs.
superstart? Nope. But “fine” if it allows them to put the saved salary toward better pitching or a better LF.
trs86
11/30/2009-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
Of course there is a chance Dye gets a multi year offer but because of his slide IMO I don’t think he will. If he does then move on.
Again, the idea is to get established players on incentive contracts and spend money on 2 pitchers.
stickguy
11/30/2009-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
Halladay AND lackey? I think you are confusing the Mets with the other NY team.
actually, my guess is that if the Mets do shock everyone and end u pwith Halladay 9whick I still say is a true, win know damn the future move), they will not be adding any other “real” SPs. For sure if they keep Pelfrey, and even likely if they move him in the deal.
And for this exercise, “real” includes guys like garland, marquis, wolf, pinheado, etc.
Maybe they take a flyer on a base + incentives rehab guy (harden sheets or bedard). And if anything, getting Halladay puts the pressure on to go all in for 2010, so adding some boom/bust guys makes perfect sense (not so much if they are trying to build from the bottom).
If they do move Pelf, there is the real possibility that you end up with 2 #1s, then 3 rotating 5-8s (depending on which enigma/injured guys come back strong or flame out entirely).
stickguy
11/30/2009-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
Excellent post this AM over on Toby’s mets minors blog about Thole and the available catchers.
Man, what a motley, motley crew. For sure no one worth giving up a draft pick for (goes double for Omars boy toy Molina)
about the only one I could even stomach right now is Olivo.
Now, if Shoppach gets non-tendered? He is interesting.
basiclaly if they Mets feel Thole can hold his own behind the dish after playing winter ball and getting some intensive tutoring through the spring, it makes no sense to waste a lot of money on bringing in an aging, weak defense, C with an OBP that makes a pitcher embarrassed.
wannybackstra
11/30/2009-2:05pm at 2:05 pm (UTC -4)
Dye is about the worst defensive outfielder who plays regularly. As Grave aptly pointed out before, the Mets would seem to have a fly ball staff (two of whom are lefties who will face a lot of right handed hitters).
Pass. Emphatically.
Not to mention his bat fell apart in the second half of last season.
trs86
11/30/2009-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
True, maybe his defense would be better however in LF.
wannybackstra
11/30/2009-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
Why? Will he run faster in LF than he did in RF?
And I hardly think putting him in the busier location is a wise idea.
trs86
11/30/2009-7:47pm at 7:47 pm (UTC -4)
So you don’t conform to the idea that most teams agree with that LF is easier to play than RF? Or that most teams hide their worst defensive players at 1B and LF?
wannybackstra
11/30/2009-9:06pm at 9:06 pm (UTC -4)
I conform to the undeniable fact that Dye is a poor fielder.
And that his lumbering body is not particularly concerned with which side of the field it is no longer capable of patrolling.