Dec 01
According to Metsblog/John Heyman Tweet, Brian Schneider has signed with the Phillies
Given yesterdays news about Chris Coste, guess this is a classic switcharoo. I wonder if Brian will tell the Philles he bleeds blue/black/orange as Chris Coste basically said about himself and the Phillies? (thanks metsblog for the link)
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98 comments
prismo
12/1/2009-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
HAHA!! I hope they paid him at least a couple mil!
stickguy
12/1/2009-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
interesting. Not sure what it means that the Phils are running around picking up the Mets sloppy 2nds. Oh yeah, it means their bench sucked last year.
trs86
12/1/2009-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
Kind of ironic on a couple of points. Coste and Schneider basically trade places (one team removed of course).
And my point to how bad the Phillies bench was last year. It’s so bad they have went out and got Wilson Valdez and Brian Schneider as upgrades.
fongy2
12/1/2009-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
The thing is that their everyday eight is so good
their bench guys don’t play
anyway.
stickguy
12/1/2009-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
they got away with that last year while the mets didn’t.
if howard, rollins or utley goes out for an extended time (add that to my santa list!), the fall off would be tremendous.
they must be about due for an injury plagued year in 2010, right? Mets had one in 2009, yanks in 2008.
metsfan4decades
12/1/2009-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
True, but as we very well saw, that can really come back to bite you. A couple of longer term injuries to your core and your season is over.
Thing is, their regular catchers last year were pretty much uh, not that good to begin with. Neither could really hit. Not sure what adding Schneider to that mix does for them.
I’m curious to see who they pick up for 3rd base.
trs86
12/1/2009-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
As long as they don’t get hurt, maybe. Think about this Eric Bruntlett got in 72 games and 118 PA with this line :224 .238 .462
Imagine what would have happen if that had doubled because of a Rollins or Utley injury.
fongy2
12/1/2009-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah but it didn’t.
And if either had been lost for any significant amount of time,
the phils would have gone
out and trade for a better player than Bruntlett.
trs86
12/1/2009-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Hmmm, here comes the Phillies crusade again.
What is your point that they did not? Our point is that their bench was terrible. Can you really debate that?
fongy2
12/1/2009-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
Point is their bench was terrible for what it was,not used much. Manuel did do a real bad job though with Dobbs.Didn’t play him enough. But they didn’t bother much with their bench because it wasn’t neede much.
trs86
12/1/2009-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
“And my point to how bad the Phillies bench was last year.”
Did not say it really even hurt them. I am saying it for sure would have if they had significant injuries.
trs86
12/1/2009-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
Thinking about it the Mets regular 8 coming into the season last year had been close to the league lead in runs scored the year before.
prismo
12/1/2009-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t find any confirmation of this, but Jon Heyman on twitter seems to state that Schneider got a 2-year deal from the Phillies. HAH!
Kingman 26
12/1/2009-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
Addition by subtraction.
A terrible hitter, slower than me, a mediocre arm, poor at blocking the plate, and the epitome of putrescence all around.
I am so thrilled to see him gone.
prismo
12/1/2009-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
All very true! The Mets got his for his supposed defense, not for his bat (which everyone knew he lacked) – but it turns out he was worse than advertised in both areas.
fongy2
12/1/2009-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed! Yet more confirmation
Omars lost some power.
No 3 year counter offer for
Scheider,one of his beloved
former Expos.
trs86
12/1/2009-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah you are right? What are you talking about? Who has he vastly overpaid with multi-year contracts besides Perez and Castillo?
fongy2
12/1/2009-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
C’mon TRS.
trs86
12/1/2009-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Seriously Fongy. Name them.
fongy2
12/1/2009-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
Listen, I have things to do so I’m not gonna debate this again. Contracts that were either not needed,excessive or both, Mota, Franco,Valentin,Alou,Castillo,Perez,Schoenweiss. Thats off the top of my head. Showing Omar just never knows when he’s coaught lightning in a bottle and shouldn’t reward that with add’l deals, A million here,a million there and what?? The above contracts alone add up to what?? 100 Million dollars? But Omar, doesn’t throw money away? Oh and as I’m writing I just remebered last yrs gem…Tim Redding.
wannybackstra
12/1/2009-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
Those may not be Vernon Wells caliber but they’re all valid. For god’s sake he paid Mota two guaranteed years coming off of a steroid suspension.
But I don’t think Omar’s biggest problem is signing players for too much money. The bigger problem is that he has to sign too many players, period. The Mets are constructed primarily by free agents and/or pending free agents they had to acquire via trade.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
So true.
And reading something yesterday reminded me that the Mets were 1 of only 4 teams that had more than 1 of their top 10 2009 draft picks go unsigned, on top of not even having a 1st round pick to begin with.
wannybackstra
12/1/2009-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
The lack of foresight is stunning.
The Mets are willing to pay big money for their MLB payroll but draw the line at paying to develop their own talent — which would only enhance their ability to sign prized free agents.
It suggests to me that they have no faith in their own ability to evaluate and develop players.
trs86
12/1/2009-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Alou was not give a multi-year deal. Valentin was not given a multi-year deal. Franco, Castillo, Perez and Show were. Tim Redding was also not a multi year contract.
wannybackstra
12/1/2009-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
Players who are overpaid even for one year affect the team’s ability to construct a better team for that season.
I don’t see the point in nitpicking over one year deals or mult-year deals.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t locate specific past contract details, but according to b-r.com “transaction details” Alou signed as a free agent 11/06 and was subsequently granted free agency 10/08, that implies 2 years.
Same with Valentin: signed 12/05, granted free agency 11/07.
I’m not 100% sure but the way I read that it seems strongly implied that both guys got at worst 1 year plus an option that was vested or exercised, if not just straight 2 year deals.
trs86
12/1/2009-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
It matters because the point was
“No 3 year counter offer for
Scheider,one of his beloved
former Expos.”
And my question was:
“Who has he vastly overpaid with multi-year contracts besides Perez and Castillo?”
And I admitted he was right on Mota, Franco and Show. However, Alou and Valentin were on one year deals with team options thus they were not guaranteed the 2nd year. Yes they were ultimately picked up but that does not suddenly make them multi-year deals.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
Fair point. They are though two year commitments that you have to pay to break.
trs86
12/1/2009-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
True I think Alou’s was a big 1 million and I am not sure Valentin’s even had one.
wannybackstra
12/1/2009-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
But is Omar absolved for his overpayments because he does them in one year intervals?
And isn’t it worse that he would sign Alou a second time after he could have gotten rid of him after his first injury riddled season?
trs86
12/1/2009-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
Yes Omar should be held accountable for bringing them back. Still not the point. I always here about how Omar gives all these bad multi-year deals out but in reality he has done a better job of not doing that than a lot of other GM’s.
dirtysanchez
12/1/2009-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
lol im just glad i dont have to write his long name in the gameday post anymore lol
trs86
12/1/2009-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
true or try and remember if it’s shnei or shnie
dirtysanchez
12/1/2009-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
lmao…guilty of that just writing up this post
wannybackstra
12/1/2009-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
i dont think it has been determined yet that wilson valdez will be the phils primary backup anywhere or that he is even assured a roster spot.
and before we start comparing the two teams’ benches let’s remember that schneider will be the phils’ second catcher while he was supposed to be the mets’ starter.
trs86
12/1/2009-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Same as it’s too early to say what Coste role will be. I don’t think any of us are really comparing this year’s benches yet as they are TBA.
metsfan4decades
12/1/2009-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
As some said earlier, the Phils bench was absolutely horrific last year and every Phillie fan knew it.
The fact that over on Beerleaguer right now, they all love this signing, touting Schneider as a ‘plus’ and ‘solid’ defensively, with a great arm and a decent stick – just tells you how bad their bench really was.
Good luck to him. Since I didn’t want to see him back with the Mets, makes no never mind to me who he plays for. I hope he does well enough to keep his job.
On the other hand, PhilliesNation is really moaning and groaning over our Coste signing. Apparently, while not that good for them, he must have been a fan favorite of theirs.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
Excellent point on Schneider’s different role with the different teams. I imagine he’ll flourish in his new role. His career numbers at CBP are a bit better than his overall career numbers.
Overall
.251 .323 .374
at CBP in 42 games
.266 .394 .391
trs86
12/1/2009-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
Even worse
Todd Zolecki of MLB.com says Schneider’s contract is for two years, and an official announcement from the Phillies is expected later today.
So the Mets fans are angry about Cora for 1 year 2 million and the Phillies are signing Wilson Valdez backup IF and Brian Schneider to a 2 year deal.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
From a personal standpoint I question the Phils signings as much as I do those of the Mets so far.
The difference being, I have more faith in the Phils skills at identifying players than I do those of the Mets. So if the Phils do something that I consider to be premature, I’m more likely to cut them some well earned slack.
Before passing stronger judgment I’d want to know the money on Schneider, and I’d also want to reiterate what Wanny said earlier: Valdez is guaranteed nothing with the Phils, Cora is virtually guaranteed a 25 man roster spot with the Mets, and Schneider won’t be the Phils starting C. If I were choosing a guy to be a twice a week starter at C I’d probably choose Schneider over Coste too.
trs86
12/1/2009-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
But would you give a 25 man roster spot and 2 years for Schneider?
fongy2
12/1/2009-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
The phils signed Juan Castro for Bruntlett’s spot. Valdez will play at
AA or AAA…
most likely.
They included their best middle infield prospect in the
Cliff Lee deal
and no other prospect look ready to play above High-A ball.
Also, I guess they look at Scheider for Paul Bako as an upgrade behind Ruiz.
Still, 2 yrs??
wannybackstra
12/1/2009-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
Good points.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
Personally? No.
But as noted I trust the Phils judgment more and I think recent history supports that. I’m much more willing to give the Phils the benefit of the doubt on a head scratcher at this stage.
I noted above that Schneider’s career numbers at CBP are above his overall career numbers. At Shea, and demonstrably so at Citi, they are lower than his overall career numbers. He would seem to fit better with them, at least for home games.
dirtysanchez
12/1/2009-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
I believe its 3mil/2yrs
wannybackstra
12/1/2009-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
We’re really grasping for straws if we’re proud that the Mets’ bench was or may be stronger than the Phils’.
In the meantime, the Mets starting catcher was so bad he’s now going to be on the Phils bench.
trs86
12/1/2009-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, yup we this entire page has championed the Mets bench and has tried to prove we are better than them at something. LOL. All we have said is their bench last year sucked. How can there be that much disagreement with that?
dirtysanchez
12/1/2009-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
im going to miss Mrs. Schneider…hottie
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
WOOT! WOOT!
Kingman 26
12/1/2009-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, she must have read the same bogus scouting reports we did when she agreed to marry him…..
prismo
12/1/2009-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
As much grief as I’ll give Omar for the Cora deal, this Schneider one may be worse. It’s really only worth it for any info he’ll have on the other NL East teams.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
They probably already know that Johan Santana kicks their asses, Oliver Perez is wild and Mike Pelfrey is easily rattled.
metsfan4decades
12/1/2009-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
Not sure why the two year multi million deal but….
as we know, the crop of available catchers this year is pretty poor. Unless someone has a diamond in the rough in the minors, possible being blocked by a ML starting catcher, there just wasn’t that much available.
Here’s hoping Thole turns out to be at least a solid ML starting catcher for us.
Between Cora or Schneider, I’d have rather spent that couple of Mil on Cora…Then again, I’d have rather spent more and gone after F. Lopez.
wannybackstra
12/1/2009-1:40pm at 1:40 pm (UTC -4)
Schneider makes sense for them as a backup in that he’s not as bad as he was last year, will play much less than the Mets ever hoped he would and he bats lefthanded which makes it easier to sit Ruiz at times.
I think grave posted some stats which showed the Mets pitcher’s ERAs were much better with Schneider on the mound compared to the rest of the Mets’ catchers.
Two years does seem unnecessary though. Perhaps he had an offer to play somewhere else where he could have played more frequently.
trs86
12/1/2009-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
Was there not some study that everyone was using last off-season to show how much better the Mets pitchers did with Castro behind the plate?
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
I think it was with Santos that most Met SPs were best. Oliver Perez was best with Schneider though, that I remember for sure, and I also remember for sure that this was the exception not the rule.
Small samples though as I just looked at 2009 and Schneider was injured a lot. Basically I recall that all the starters except Livan pitched to better results with Santos as opposed to Castro behind the plate.
wannybackstra
12/1/2009-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
Based solely on hitters career OPS+ against, the Mets relevant pitchers for this season prefer the catchers in the following order (this analysis does not explain why such OPS+ were attained, i.e. injury etc., and does not account for sample sizes):
Santana: Castro/Mauer/Santos/Schneider
Maine: Thole/Castro/LoDuca/Santos/Schneider
Pelfrey: Thole/Castro/Schneider/Santos
Perez: Kendall/Schneider/Castro/LoDuca/Santos
A couple of notes: among Mets catchers, Schneider had the largest sample sizes, Thole and Santos the smallest and probably least reliable; it looks to me like Jerry the Genius held a grudge against the wrong guy.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
I certainly can’t dispute the larger sample over my smaller sample, nor can I dispute the superior logic of making a personnel decision based on a larger sample.
Given this it appears, based on research I did at the end of May, that the Mets made a bad decision based on a small sample, and I made a bad decision based on a small sample to endorse it at the time.
http://realdirtymets.com/2009/05/31/omir-santos-is-a-dog/
wannybackstra
12/1/2009-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
At the same time OPS+ doesn’t necessarily translate to lower ERAs or better W/L records. (well, the latter is only about 1/3 dependent upon the pitcher anyway).
fongy2
12/1/2009-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks for the support above Heb and Wanny. While I’m widely known as anti-Omar,it wasn’t always that way.
I began to turn against him during the winter of ’06into’07. It seemed we were so close and what was needed
wasn’t overhauling the Pen,seemingly w/o a plan while adding a 40 y/o,
often-injured LFer to replace a young
often-injured LFer,plus hoping Valentin wouldn’t return to being
an often-injured,late 30s,not really
a second baseman player….BUT a real
plan to surround our still in their prime big four with a couple of dependable,tough minded veterans who
still had some life in their bodies
AND a secondary big time RP to supplement Billy Wags.
It didn’t happen and here we are while
STILL waiting on Omar’s great talent evaluation skills to show serious
production out of the minors.
b/t/w, I forgot about El Duque….
Anyway, I’ve got to high-tail it as
I’m running real late.
You fellas have a great rest of the day and as always…Lets Go Mets!
fongy2
12/1/2009-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
Should have read “younger”
not “young” when describing
Uncle Cliffy!
trs86
12/1/2009-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
Oh! Oh! I See! Running away eh? … You yellow …!
Come back and take what’s coming to you. I’ll bite your legs off!
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
Oh dear, I sense a “filthy English wiper of other people’s bottoms” comment coming soon.
trs86
12/1/2009-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
I show parts of that movie to my kids in class every year and they never get it but they all find it quite funny.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-1:40pm at 1:40 pm (UTC -4)
With the rapid fire delivery and the accents, it can be difficult. Luckily it’s also visually ridiculous, with the riding invisible horses while clapping coconut shells together for the sound effect, and trees ordering people to plant shrubs.
Kingman 26
12/1/2009-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
My 9 and 6 year old nieces laugh hysterically at certain sketches my brother shows them on YouTube from the TV show….especially the one with Palin as a priest who sits down with Cleese and Cleveland at a restaurant table, being VERY quietly concerned about not bothering them, and then proceeds to chant nonsense and smash plates on the edge of the table.
I LOVE those guys.
Kingman 26
12/1/2009-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
There is a fantastic new documentary on Monty Python, and the episode on the making of Holy Grail is fantastic–SO funny and full of key info.
Seriously, check it out–it is called Monty Python Almost the Truth-The Lawyer’s Cut (sorry Wanny, I did not choose the title…)
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
I saw part of this series on IFC (or Sundance?) recently, good stuff.
Kingman 26
12/1/2009-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
His mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberry.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
Poaching this ESPN Buster Olney snippet from Mets Fever:
“I feel like I can still play one of the better center fields in the game,” Cameron said the other day. “I feel like I can play with the best of them. At the same time, you have to understand if you want to be in the right spot, [moving to corner outfield] might be an option you want to take. … I’m just trying to get in the right spot to get in the playoffs.”
So, do we think the Mets qualify?
trs86
12/1/2009-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
I see the Yankees in his future.
Kingman 26
12/1/2009-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
He’s the perfect guy for us for 1-2 years in LF.
wannybackstra
12/1/2009-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
(cue Mannyacs)
stickguy
12/1/2009-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with TRS and Kong. Perfect fit for the mets for 1-2 years, but the yanks likely go after him. They were linked to him a lot a year or 2 ago, but maybe that ship has sailed?
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
And so it looks like a guy most of us agree is the best overall fit in terms of offense/defense/contract is a guy we have to hope the Mets FO appreciates the same things about as we do AND a guy we have to hope will somehow not get better opportunities elsewhere. What a crappy feeling.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/1/2009-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
This was shocking. But understandable. You think he’ll be booed at Citi? I think he will be.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
If I’m ever in a position to bet on a Citi Field crowd, I’m going to bet on ‘boo’ almost every time. But if I’m there for his 1st appearance, I’ll react with the same indifference he showed with his performance while he was here.
trs86
12/1/2009-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
We boo our own players, why would we not boo a Philly?
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
I believe a Met crowd would largely boo Schneider coming in as a Philly. Personally though I don’t just boo a uniform, a player has to do something to earn my boo.
Schneider’s languid Met performance merely gets a yawn and a trip to the restroom from me. A boo would be too much exertion and not worth it, yawning being a more fair ‘backatcha’ for what he gave IMO.
Kingman 26
12/1/2009-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
I think he will be met with complete indifference, which, to me, is precisely what his astonishingly consistent mediocrity deserves!
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/1/2009-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
His performance was not mediocre or indifference. He sucked big time!
Kingman 26
12/1/2009-3:54pm at 3:54 pm (UTC -4)
OK, you got me, I was being nice and maybe thinking of his pretty wife!
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
Completely unrelated, Mike Francesa just got through kissing Rod Thorn’s butt and repeated a few times about Brooke Lopez “he’s a 20/10 player and that’s a good player.” Interesting because David Lee is also a 20/10 player that Francesa has been trying to run out of town for 2 years. Maybe Mike just doesn’t like guys named David.
Kingman 26
12/1/2009-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, did not realize Lee’s stats were quite that good.
But I do think Lopez is probably the better player.
Hard to focus on basketball right now as a Net fan for 30+ years….and I have to watch Jason Kidd get us to 0-18 for the record tomorrow.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
In the interest of full disclosure, neither guy is truly 20/10. This season Lee is 18/10 and Lopez 18/9. Close enough for horseshoes I guess.
stickguy
12/1/2009-2:34pm at 2:34 pm (UTC -4)
Time for the PM version of “philosophical ramblings”. The AM version was my desire for harang/philips/harden to start.
That AM muse, plus discussion of Cameron, points out to me that the mets are at a transition point that teams often hit. Kind of like the sign post that has options like rebuild, retool, win now.
I think the Mets are really at a retool point, kind of a “win now” stop gap period.
they really need desperately to beef up the upper levels of the minors (a process started last year), to ensure a healthy future, especially as the current core gets old or potentially moves on when their contracts expire (or get reupped for big bucks).
But, they also have one of the top nucleuses in the NL, 5 all stars (20% of the roster for the math challeneged) that any team would be happy to have (maybe not pay for, but have on the team). And they are all still in their primes.
Are they enough? Not really, although if they all stay healthy and return to at least career average years, the team will be pretty damned close (certainly competitive for a PS berth).
But, their does not seem to be any immediate impact players coming out of the minors (thole and Neise being the only 2 plausible options to make the team out of ST). But with Davis and F Mart, and a little less likely Tejada, holt, mejia and Kirk N., they have some guys that could be up to help in a pinch in 2010, and possibly FT in 2011.
So, their is a future (since the entire core is still signed in 2011, and only Beltran likely gone in 2012 (or is it 2013? for him and reyes?). Anyway, there is a chance of adding home grown talent by then, to support the core, not replace it (which would be rebuilding).
So, getting to a point, it makes a ton of sense to add some veterans that can still produce for 1 or 2 years to supplement the core. Basically be the better supporting cast that Omar has had problems putting together.
that’s why I supposr tguys like harang, harden, cammeron. 1 or 2 year commitments only, basically improve the talent level, give them a real chance to win in 2010, preserve the farm, and effectivley buy time to see what prospects pan out, and dtermine what the team will be in 2012+++
Also why if they get guys on LT deals, it should be young talent that can be considered additions to the LT core, like Philips (and Johnson if really available).
Holliday and lackey are a tougher call. Big $$s, and a lot of years to guys that are nice players, not stars, and on the wrong side of 30. These guys lock you in LT and tie up payroll, taking away flexibility. But, at least they preserve the farm!
trs86
12/1/2009-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
Holliday and Lackey kind of preserve the farm. They also take away a pick and no one knows what that pick might become.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
At least this year those picks would be 2nd & 3rd rounders (if both were somehow signed) with the 1st rounder protected.
For the first time in a long time (if not ever) last year the Mets went over slot to sign their first pick (2nd round). But they refused to go over slot for the subsequent rounds and as a result their 5th, 6th and 9th round picks were total wastes of time.
So if it’s a pick other than their first overall pick that they’re losing, I don’t really care.
trs86
12/1/2009-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
Oh I would not complain but I am also the type that was fine with the Putz and Santana deals as well.
whataputz
12/1/2009-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
Why does everyone get their panties in a bunch when they hear the name Bengie Molina? The guy can actually hit! Sure if i borke both of my legs and lost my arms I could still outrun the man, but the guy has pop and a gun for an arm. Plus the Citi backstop is literally a foot behind the catcher. It’s not like Schneider was a vaccum. As long as the deal is no longer than a year or two then why the heck not? Ideally I’d like to sign him for 1 year. The only issue here is the money. If signing Molina takes away another possible addition, then I’d rather just stick with Omir and Thole. But if we can sign Molina and still get a big bat and pitcher, than I would like the move a lot. I mean did you guys watch Schneider hit last year! All I can say is I hope this guy gets a lot of Philly ab’s. And Chris Coste..why?
trs86
12/1/2009-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
I kind of agree. IF he is not offered arbitration and will come for a 1+1 deal at no more than what we were paying Schneider then it is for sure an upgrade.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-3:03pm at 3:03 pm (UTC -4)
I think it’s a general disdain for investing in 35 year old fat catchers with career OBPs of .308. At least that’s my take on it.
If the team were to upgrade on Francoeur I would be more open to Molina on the right, friendly contract. But those two near each other in the lineup is like over-wetting the infield, everything slows down.
trs86
12/1/2009-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
But those two at the bottom of the order are also decent RBI guys. I am not as concerned about my 7-8 hitters getting on as I am then driving in the guys in front of them. I am still looking for it but someone mentioned that there is now an RBI/RBIChance stat that I would like to see for some of these guys like Molina and Frenchy or for that matter Wright.
whataputz
12/1/2009-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
Grave, what catcher out there is signing a cheap short term deal, with speed and the ability to drive in runs? Is Bengie ideal? No. But his offensive production especially a the Catcher position is fine. What catchers are out there? Barajas? Molina is a better hitter in my opinion.
GravediggerHebner
12/1/2009-3:29pm at 3:29 pm (UTC -4)
Ultimately I don’t want the Mets to make any serious investment in a C because they allegedly have their catcher of the future on the cusp of being here.
If we assume that’s true, we’re talking about a stop-gap player. Why pay the best available player at the position what he rightly deserves when all you really want is a holdover guy?
If Josh Thole didn’t exist, and if Jeff Francoeur weren’t already an OBP black hole low in the order on this team, I’d be all over Molina like white on rice. But, Thole does exist and Francoeur is here.
I preferred Shoppach as that stopgap but the Rays, a team respected for it’s ability to do a lot with a little, snapped him up.
Given my belief that the team just needs a stopgap player, I’d take pretty much every single available FA catcher over Benjie in that circumstance. Certainly these guys:
Greg Zaun
Ivan Rodriguez
Mike Redmond
Miguel Olivo
Jason Kendall
Henry Blanco
Rod Barajas
No, they don’t provide Benjie’s HRs, but they also don’t expect as much money and as many years.
And tonight some other guys might be non-tendered, expanding the field even more.
stickguy
12/1/2009-3:00pm at 3:00 pm (UTC -4)
too bad shoppach is gone. That would have been a great pick up.
if the mets are hell bent on getting a C with some pop but a lousy OBP, Olivo is available. Similar production to Molina, but younger, thinner, and no lost draft pick.
Oh, and should be a lot cheaper too.
Could also go after nivarro too, and hope he can replicate 2008 (and ont 2009). He should be non tendered soon.
trs86
12/1/2009-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
I would look into Nivarro but I am not sure that Molina is going to cost a pick either. Has he been offered arbitration yet?
As for Shoppach I don’t see the big deal. Why commit 3 million to a guy with that line from last year?
wannybackstra
12/1/2009-3:16pm at 3:16 pm (UTC -4)
He had a very good 2008; an .865 OPS for a catcher. Man, that’s got to be as impressive as Tatis’s 2008.