Dec 03
According to CBS (thanks metsblog for the link), the Braves are close to signing Takashi Saito to a one year deal
-Man the Braves are sure flexing some muscles early on. With the news yesterday of the Braves signing Billy “The Kid” Wagner, they really got the end of the game locked up. Combine that with their starting rotation of Lowe/Vazquez/Jair/Kawakami/Hudson/Hanson and the Braves are going to be trouble…if they can ever score.
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62 comments
GravediggerHebner
12/3/2009-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
I guess we can hope Wren will pull an Omar and hibernate now, satisfied that he’s fixed the bullpen and unaware or unconcerned with other needs.
According the the dubious depth charts of mlb.com, the Braves starting 8 as of today is:
Diaz, McLouth, Church, C. Jones, Escobar, Prado, Canizares (who?), and McCann.
Sort of makes Pagan, Beltran, Francoeur, Wright, Reyes, Castillo, Murphy, Santos look competitive.
wannybackstra
12/3/2009-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
But it’ll take more than just a competitively matched lineup to counter the difference between:
Hanson, Hudson, Jurrgens, Vazquez, Lowe & Kawakami
v.
Santana, Pelfrey, Perez, Maine, Niese & Nieve
stickguy
12/3/2009-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
THey do have a nice rotation though.
actually an interesting approach by the Braves (something that Omar should try at least once).
offered arb to his incumbents, hoping they leave. Then sign 2 replacements for probably no more money.
and in the process, even though Wagner is a type A, they are netting 3 additional draft picks.
GravediggerHebner
12/3/2009-5:03pm at 5:03 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t argue with either you or Wanny (above) on that point, I just went to the lineup as I felt Dirty had already covered their well-stocked rotation in his original post.
fongy2
12/3/2009-4:02pm at 4:02 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah they got the 8th&9th locked up
until Wags & Saito’s arm’s fall off!
I’ll believe the Braves have fixed their Pen when I see it!
for 20yrs now they’ve brought in one guy after another and for all their winning they have one ring to show for it.Plus good luck Brave fans(all 8 of ya)with that OF! Oh, and Chipper?, lets see him get through
another full season at his age with that brittle body.
Lastly, Lowe gonna get better or con’t his back slide? Vasquez gonna have another career year or more likely return to being a nice,.500 4th type Starter?
As for Hudson….See Mark Mulder.
wannybackstra
12/3/2009-4:08pm at 4:08 pm (UTC -4)
What’s the Hudson-Mulder connection (other than that they were teammates 6 years ago)?
fongy2
12/3/2009-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
Worn out young by the great peterson, arms
shot my they’re mid 30s while being paid lots of money by their new teams.
Really though Wanny, I was tryin’ to be more cute than make
a spot on point with that one.
I’m not worried about Hudson though.
Find me the 35y/o,170
lb. Pitcher coming back from serious arm issues who has ever regained his prime
form.
wannybackstra
12/3/2009-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
Considering Hudson came back a year after his surgery, pitched reasonably effectively and in twice the number of innings Mulder has pitched since 2006, I’m not sure it’s time to conclude he’s shot.
Also, Hudson had Tommy John surgery for an elbow injury; which is quite more successful in terms of recovery than the shoulder injuries sustained by Mulder. (I also don’t see the Peterson connection as Hudson’s injury surfaced as you said in his mid 30s and 5 years after he last worked with Rick).
The Braves sure aren’t ready to reach the conclusion that Hudson is done and they put their money where their mouths are.
Hopefully, you’re right and they’re wrong.
fongy2
12/3/2009-4:31pm at 4:31 pm (UTC -4)
Well I would never say I know more about Hudson’s condition than the Braves team and Docs BUT AGAIN
Like Billy Wags,it’s one thing to come back for a month or two
a yr after major surg and
another thing to regain even close to his
prime form,
close to 35 with his slight
frame.
I can’t recall
anyone having done it.
And the best two pitchers I ever saw his size,Pedro and Guidry
…once
they began having arm trouble
except for a rare few spots,were never
the same.
wannybackstra
12/3/2009-4:35pm at 4:35 pm (UTC -4)
Both were shoulder injuries.
wannybackstra
12/3/2009-4:32pm at 4:32 pm (UTC -4)
By the way, does Chris Carpenter qualify? He had TJ at age 32.
Octavio Dotel also at age 32.
John Smoltz at age 31 or 32 in 1999.
Arthur Rhodes at almost 100 years old in 2007.
The list of success stories includes dozens of players of all ages. We’ll see about Billy Wagner too.
fongy2
12/3/2009-4:42pm at 4:42 pm (UTC -4)
No Carpenter doesn’t.The guys a horse.
I get your point
But again,any of these guys 38/39
like Wags or almost 35 and 170lbs
like Hudson?
wannybackstra
12/3/2009-5:07pm at 5:07 pm (UTC -4)
Dotel is listed at 175.
Rhodes was a teammate of Christy Mathewson.
Tom Gordon was 32 when he had it (180 lbs) in 1999 and had some of his best seasons of his career afterward.
The guy everyone thinks the Braves should have kept, Mike Gonzalez, also had TJ.
Here’s an alphabetical list from Wiki of MLBers who had TJ. You’ll see all sorts of guys who pitched to varying level of success.
Nick Adenhart
Brian Anderson [9]
Rick Ankiel [10] (converted to outfielder)
Andy Ashby [11]
Luis Ayala [12]
Brandon Backe [13]
Danys Baez [14]
Rocco Baldelli [15] (outfielder)
Rod Beck [16]
Erik Bedard [17]
Francis Beltran [18]
Jeff Bennett [19]
Kris Benson [20]
Adam Bernero [21]
Brent Billingsley [22]
Joe Borchard (outfielder)
Dewon Brazelton
Doug Brocail
Taylor Buchholz
Ambiorix Burgos
A. J. Burnett
Paul Byrd
Jorge Campillo
José Canseco (outfielder; injured while pitching)
Chris Capuano (twice)
Chris Carpenter
Rocky Cherry
Shin-Soo Choo (outfielder)
Todd Coffey
Ben Davis (catcher)
Manny Delcarmen
Ryan Dempster [20]
Chris Denorfia (outfielder)
Jorge DePaula
Brendan Donnelly
Octavio Dotel
Kyle Drabek
Darren Dreifort
Phil Dumatrait
Brian Duensing
Adam Eaton
Dave Eiland (twice)
Willie Eyre
Scott Feldman[23]
Jesse Foppert
Chad Fox (thrice)
John Franco
Frank Francisco
Éric Gagné [20]
Rusty Greer (outfielder)
Luis Gonzalez (outfielder)
Mike González
Tom Gordon [20]
Lee Gronkiewicz
Angel Guzman
Mike Hampton
Sean Henn
Pat Hentgen
Runelvys Hernández
Shawn Hill (twice)
Matt Holliday (outfielder)
Norris Hopper (outfielder)
Tim Hudson
Philip Humber
Todd Hundley (catcher)
César Izturis (infielder)
Jason Isringhausen
Tommy John
Kelly Johnson (infielder)
Josh Johnson
Steve Karsay
Jimmy Key
Josh Kinney
Billy Koch [20]
Bobby Korecky
Hong-Chih Kuo (twice)
Cory Lidle
Jon Lieber [20]
Jesse Litsch[24]
Mike Lincoln (twice)
Francisco Liriano
Rodrigo Lopez
Matt Mantei
Shaun Marcum
Scott Mathieson (twice)
Joe Mays
Seth McClung
Dustin McGowan
Sergio Mitre
Paul Molitor (infielder)
Matt Morris [20]
Peter Moylan
Xavier Nady (twice; outfielder)
Tim Naehring (infielder)
Pat Neshek
John Odom
Russ Ortiz
Josh Outman
Juan Padilla
Jarrod Parker
John Parrish
Carl Pavano
Scott Proctor
Bill Pulsipher
Chris Ray [14][20]
Carlos Quentin (outfielder)
Britt Reames
Al Reyes
Arthur Rhodes
Jose Rijo (thrice)
Matt Riley (thrice)
Ricardo Rincón
Mariano Rivera
Fernando Rodney
Kenny Rogers
Francisco Rosario
B. J. Ryan
Ãngel Sánchez[25] (infielder)
AnÃbal Sánchez
Humberto Sánchez
Scott Schoeneweis
Jae Seo
Alfredo Simon
John Smoltz [20]
Kyle Snyder
Joakim Soria
Rafael Soriano
Tim Spooneybarger
Denny Stark (twice)
Clete Thomas (outfielder)
Brian Tollberg
Merkin Valdez
Rick van den Hurk
Edinson Volquez
Billy Wagner
Paul Wagner
Tyler Walker
David Wells
Jake Westbrook
Scott Williamson
Brian Wilson
Vance Wilson (twice; catcher)
Mark Wohlers
Randy Wolf
Kerry Wood [20]
Jaret Wright
Tyler Yates (twice)
Matt Young
Mike Zagurski
VÃctor Zambrano (twice)
Jeff Zimmerman (twice)
Jordan Zimmermann
GravediggerHebner
12/3/2009-5:13pm at 5:13 pm (UTC -4)
Jeebus that’s a long list.
Good to see my man Taylor Buchholz on there. I’ll be in the 26 degree December nights outside the SNY studios holding up my “sign Taylor” placards over the shoulder of the Mets Hot Stove guys!
Just call me a Taylorac ™ now!
dirtysanchez
12/3/2009-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
lol..we can only hope their arms fall off. Their SP rotation is the strongest in the east imo.
fongy2
12/3/2009-4:20pm at 4:20 pm (UTC -4)
I think if everyones
healthy, once we sign
Lackey theres not much separation b/t
us the phils and the braves.
dirtysanchez
12/3/2009-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
lol…still holdin out hope for lackey huh fong
fongy2
12/3/2009-4:38pm at 4:38 pm (UTC -4)
Oh yeah!
I’ve decided
to go the cocky,over confident route with this………
Until of course,he signs with Brock’s Mariners for 6yrs and
100MIl
whataputz
12/3/2009-5:12pm at 5:12 pm (UTC -4)
Florda’s staff is pretty dirty too.
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-6:04pm at 6:04 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!
steveo
12/3/2009-4:51pm at 4:51 pm (UTC -4)
All I can say is good luck to the the bravo’s. If having two guys with a combined age of 78 saving games for in the pen come sept.Id be a little worried again the braves don’t have much money to play with so they better hope these guys in there late 30s and 1 in his forties hold up.
GravediggerHebner
12/3/2009-5:08pm at 5:08 pm (UTC -4)
Have they signed Doug Brocail, Eddie Guardado and Tom Gordon yet? The Braves seem to be inking these guys quickly before the pass away from natural causes.
fongy2
12/3/2009-5:43pm at 5:43 pm (UTC -4)
Just got it from a good source,…The Braves are
talking to Al Hrabosky
to be their 7th inning
guy!
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-6:06pm at 6:06 pm (UTC -4)
No sir, they have already signed Skip Lockwood to a 2-year deal!
CaseStreet
12/3/2009-6:24pm at 6:24 pm (UTC -4)
Was watching 2001 season on MLB network.
Schilling-Johnson were nasty.
Santana-halladay is a must (sorry trs)
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-7:49pm at 7:49 pm (UTC -4)
+ Infinity
GravediggerHebner
12/3/2009-7:02pm at 7:02 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t bring myself to make an actual post about it, but apparently Henry Blanco is official. 1 year, $1.5 million, a doubling of his salary from last year. I don’t question signing Blanco, but I question giving him twice his salary of last season.
jaydh
12/3/2009-7:04pm at 7:04 pm (UTC -4)
wasting money…omar’s m.o.
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-7:54pm at 7:54 pm (UTC -4)
Writing repetitive silliness–Jaydh’s MO.
Maybe we should be going after Sanchez??
jaydh
12/3/2009-8:04pm at 8:04 pm (UTC -4)
clueless …kingmans m.o. see i can play this game.
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-8:15pm at 8:15 pm (UTC -4)
I eagerly await your first relevant, insightful comment.
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-8:17pm at 8:17 pm (UTC -4)
I guess after reconsidering, I agree he has wasted hundereds of millions on Johan, KRod, Beltran, Delgado, Wagner, and Wright and Reyes’ extensions.
Sorry man, you got me again.
jaydh
12/3/2009-8:40pm at 8:40 pm (UTC -4)
out of all of omars yrs you can only come up with 7 players… and delgado’s last option that was picked up was overpaying. its ok, i get it, you love omar and think he is the greatest. not everyone is satisfied with mediocrity.
GravediggerHebner
12/3/2009-8:31pm at 8:31 pm (UTC -4)
It’s probably obvious from my comments throughout this thread but I’m inclined to agree with you Jaydh.
I realize it’s a small amount of money in the grand scheme, but IMO flushing 1 dollar down the toilet, while it’s a small amount of money, is still wasteful.
I just haven’t (at least not yet) been convinced what it is about these players that they had to be signed right now, and for them to be paid, however little overall, what they’re being paid.
The one I can at least comprehend is Blanco, he really is tremendous at throwing out opposing base stealers. But locking up a 25 man roster spot by determining your back up MI in Cora now makes little sense to me, as does guaranteeing a 40 man roster spot to Coste prior to the non-tender and rule 5 period.
jaydh
12/3/2009-8:42pm at 8:42 pm (UTC -4)
I agree. These little contracts add up and prevent a bigger move. I don’t think we had to pay so much for Blanco(same for cora) or at least make his contract incentive-laden.
CaseStreet
12/3/2009-7:10pm at 7:10 pm (UTC -4)
COLA?
GravediggerHebner
12/3/2009-7:52pm at 7:52 pm (UTC -4)
Catchers Of Latin America?
Catchers Of League Average?
Crappy Old Lard Ass?
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-7:57pm at 7:57 pm (UTC -4)
Constantly Overpaying for League Average?
OK, I don’t believe it, but it came to mind….
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-7:59pm at 7:59 pm (UTC -4)
Creating Omar’s Last Acts?
fongy2
12/3/2009-7:55pm at 7:55 pm (UTC -4)
Ehh, who needs four
million when ya can have……….
Cora,Coste&Blanco?
CaseStreet
12/3/2009-10:06pm at 10:06 pm (UTC -4)
Cost of living allowance
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-7:56pm at 7:56 pm (UTC -4)
Grave–Maybe I have had too much laughing gas, but perhaps the money given to Cora and Blanco is a precursor of overspending on Lackey and others.
Maybe we are really going to overspend to fill a lot of holes, and Cora and Blanco are just introductory drops in the bucket??
fongy2
12/3/2009-7:59pm at 7:59 pm (UTC -4)
More like the wacky-
weed my friend!
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-8:01pm at 8:01 pm (UTC -4)
You never know Fongy…maybe he is going to decide who he wants and overpay for them all.
The jury remains out–at least for another week or two!
fongy2
12/3/2009-8:06pm at 8:06 pm (UTC -4)
Hey,I’m
in!
Ya know
me,I wanna win now!
But pretty much gave up hope on that
LAST off-season.
GravediggerHebner
12/3/2009-8:09pm at 8:09 pm (UTC -4)
That’s a reasonable possibility, but I would be more convinced of such if I wasn’t of the opinion that they overpaid for Cora and Blanco.
I cannot argue strongly that their salaries, which are well below the average individual salary of the Mets 25 man roster from 2009, are anything other than drops in the bucket. But I believe they could’ve been even smaller drops. And I question both of these signings being made prior to next week’s non-tender deadline.
What is it about Cora, or who else was hot on his tail, that the Mets had to give him $2 million dollars now?
And why double Blanco’s salary from last year, was he in such high demand they had to overwhelm him?
I can at least understand wanting to make sure Blanco didn’t go elsewhere due to his stellar defense, but is there something that Alex Cora brings for $2 mil that the team couldn’t have got from someone else for 50-75% less?
Yes it’s minutiae, but isn’t that precisely why sites like this exist, to argue minutiae?
fongy2
12/3/2009-8:17pm at 8:17 pm (UTC -4)
Hey!, Give Omar
credit! He gets
focused on his
man and……
ZAM!!…Like a
friggin’ laser
beam!!
No one’s gonna
outbid Omar for
the fringe MLBer/AAAA/25th
man HE wants!
No one!!
metsfan4decades
12/3/2009-7:44pm at 7:44 pm (UTC -4)
So the Mets Hot Stove program tonight on SNY……
Heyman is reporting that no way at all that the Mets are in on the Halladay sweepstakes. Says they’re not going to trade the prospects AND spend Santana like money for the extension.
He goes on to say he cannot understand why there appears to be little interest in Lackey.
I’m with Fongy on getting Lackey. I wanted Lackey back in Aug. when we first started taking a look at the FA list.
Here’s hoping Heyman is as wrong about Omar going after Lackey as he was when he said Omar was done at the winter meetings last year, and several hours later the Putz trade was announced….
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-7:53pm at 7:53 pm (UTC -4)
Heyman is a lazy tool; nothing more.
He is like some Vegas football call-in lines these days—if there is a big Ohio State-Michigan game, some of them will have half the callers be told to bet on Michigan and the other half get told to bet on OSU, so half the callers will think the “expert” knows what he is doing and they might call again.
Yesterday, Heyman was telling I think WFAN the Mets would sign Pudge and telling SI online or somewhere else that we would surely sign Molina. While we were working with Blanco.
MF4D, Heyman is fed things by agents to drive up prices, and by GMs to drive down prices, etc etc etc.
If he and Olney say it is not going to happen, I get my hopes up.
fongy2
12/3/2009-7:57pm at 7:57 pm (UTC -4)
Throw in …..whats his name from Fox..
ya know Buck and McCarver’s sidekick.
And ain’t that a fun trio to listen to??
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-8:03pm at 8:03 pm (UTC -4)
Rosenthal?
They are all the same now…and it is not even their fault totally…do you think Scott Boras has ever said ONE SINGLE honest word to a reporter?
Every word every agent says to these guys is a lie to benefit a client.
Heyman repeats nonsense and Olney just plain makes it up.
Truthfully, I never, ever listen to it anymore…I just see it on here.
fongy2
12/3/2009-8:08pm at 8:08 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah,thats him.
And I don’t think Boras has ever said an
honest word to
anyone.
jaydh
12/3/2009-8:45pm at 8:45 pm (UTC -4)
It would definately be wise of omar to take advantage of our 1st being protected.
fongy2
12/3/2009-8:13pm at 8:13 pm (UTC -4)
Ha, ha….Skip Lockwood…I like.
Man, those were the days!
Who knew??…All the pain that would
follow. Damn me for being
a Met fan!!
Although, Case still thinks I’m a
Phillie mole
Kingman 26
12/3/2009-8:16pm at 8:16 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!
Off to a music conference….hopefully we have Halladay in time for my Sunday Opinion post!!!
fongy2
12/3/2009-8:19pm at 8:19 pm (UTC -4)
Peace and safety in your travels homey!
CaseStreet
12/3/2009-10:10pm at 10:10 pm (UTC -4)
I said you are uglier than beltran”s mole
GravediggerHebner
12/3/2009-8:19pm at 8:19 pm (UTC -4)
On the topic of minutiae, I read on one of the other Met related blogs that in the press release announcing the signing of Chris Coste, the Mets referred to him specifically as “catcher/first baseman Chris Coste.”
I don’t know how meaningful that might be, but I found it interesting.
fongy2
12/3/2009-8:39pm at 8:39 pm (UTC -4)
Well theres our veteran righty
bat to help out the kid Murphy
at Firstbase!
And Omar moves on to plugging
the next hole…….
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/3/2009-9:54pm at 9:54 pm (UTC -4)
Henry Blanco is signed for $1.5M. $1.5M?????
I really hope this is the last catcher signing.
prismo
12/4/2009-7:11am at 7:11 am (UTC -4)
Blanco had a WAR of 1.2 in 2009: 1yr/1.5MM contract in 2010
Schneider had a WAR of 0.3 in 2009: 2yr/2.75MM contract in 2010
Which team got the better deal?
trs86
12/4/2009-8:33am at 8:33 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I still don’t get the Schneider deal unless they really feel his power as a LH hitter in LittleLeague Bank Park will be a plus.