I like the fact that the Phillies and the Braves are active this winter.
 It is clear to everyone around the league that the Braves are looking to make a run and are really just a thumper or two away from really getting back on top. Oh, yea and let’s not forget about that pitching staff which has now improved with the additions of Wagner and Saito. The Phillies, well we all know about them, their not going away anytime soon. With the signing of Polanco and possible upgrade in the bullpen, the Phillies will be fighting for the division yet again.
So Omar, it’s time to get your Gameface on and get ready for the Winter Meetings. The National League East is becoming a 3 team race for the Pennent, and if you want to make it a four team contest, you better make some moves….and good ones. If you don’t, we could be chasing all season long.Â
I like this, I really do.  This will bring out the direction this team is going in. If the Wilpons get cheap and restrict Omar, it’s the basement with the Nationals and an empty Citi Field.Â
Maybe this is the motivation that this Front Office needs to get moving.  The Phillies, Braves and Marlins will leave us in the dust if Minaya sits on your hands while Halladay is begging to be traded, Lackey is waiting for an offer and Castillo is playing Second. Â
C’on Omar, it’s Go Time!
Strap on a helmet, dig out the old shoulder pads and go out and improve the Mets.Â
My Season Ticket renewal form still hasn’t been filled out yet.
62 comments
jaydh
12/5/2009-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
While the Braves have a great rotation, I’m not so sure a Saito/Wagner duo is better than Gonzalez/Soriano. I would like to get soriano or gonzalez for setup. With all our struggles last yr, we were doing very well when our bullpen was #1 in the league. So if we dont go out and get someone like Lackey, then deepen the pen and sign a 2nd tier guy for the rotation like Wolf or Marquis. I still believe we can put together a good trade package using Niese if we have too. Both Misch and Nieve can spot start if needed. So while I would like to keep Niese, I’m not against trading him away if it fills a need(LF?). To me, its not realistic to get Holliday plus fill all of our other needs so omar will have to get creative with trades.
Kingman 26
12/5/2009-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
I agree again; would love Soriano or Gonzalez.
Jay, I apologize for my knee-jerk, or just plain jerk, reaction to your comment on Omar wasting money. I just think he has brought some real good high profile players in, and maybe saved money with the well-timed extensions for Jose and Wright. But Ollie and Castillo’s deals were quite bad.
As a writer/contributor to this site, I just wanted to say that your presence and comments here are most definitely welcome and appreciated.
gonzowill
12/5/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
I like Marquis and Wolf also. All I know is if Omar comes out of these winter meetings accomplishing little or nothing, what will become of the Mets? I’m not saying it’s the end but this fan base needs something to give it confidence that there is something to look forward to. I just don’t like the fact that there is nothing coming out of Mets camp except catcher signings and Alex Cora. However, as a Mets fan, I will remain optimistic.
stickguy
12/5/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
putting aside the mental state of the fanbase for a moment (asways a fragile thing!), the only thing that should really matter is wins (and this means Omar needs to put a team on the field capable of winning, and not just try to make moves to “win” the off season and appease the fans).
and IMO, even without a slew of earthshattering moves, The mets already have the talent to be fully competitive, if it can stay on the field this year.
No way are they down there with teh Nats. And things change quickly, with 1-2 guys making the leap on 1 team, and 1-2 key guys getting hurt on another, suddenly the top team is an afterthought.
Heck, look at the swing of the Rays from 2007-2009.
Certainly Omar will make some moves, every team does, and he always has. But even if he doesn’t bring in one of the holy trinity (halladay, holliday or lackey), he can easily repair the leaks in the foundation and put plenty of talent on the field.
Any team that has 5 of the top players in the league (or all of MLB) is going to be competitive, with any kind of health, normal production, and decent supporting cast.
HOw many other teams can honestly say they have 5 legit all star game players, if they just have their normal career level years? That’s 20% of the team that could easily be on the AS team.
metsfan4decades
12/5/2009-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
I like the optimism. I’m on board with this.
Contrary to some of the Met fan base out there, I don’t think right now there is any one team in the NL east that’s more dominant than the others.
As we’ve very well seen, a couple of long term injuries or a couple not having par years and the tide turns very quickly.
Get us a solid pitcher, a real corner OF and maybe a BP arm and pray the team stays on the field all year and we’re in this for sure in 2010….
stickguy
12/5/2009-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
I guess great old minds think alike (err., make that “well experienced at life”)
GravediggerHebner
12/5/2009-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
Like MF4D, I like the optimism. I have recently been taking a pessimistic view and I appreciate reading the more hopeful outlooks of others, it helps keep me closer to a more middle ground point of view.
But, I would question 2 aspects of Stickguy’s comment.
1. The Rays from 2007-2009. They made that WS with some excellent offensive and defensive production from cheap homegrown talent like BJ Upton and Evan Longoria. To equate to that, the Mets would’ve had to have made it to the WS in 2006 (whoops!) with cheap Wright and Reyes. So honestly the Rays example just kind of depresses me.
2. The 5 All-Stars, 20% of the roster thing. I think many of us agree, Omar is good at assembling All-Stars. It’s the other 80% of the team that I have my doubts about. We shall see if this off season Omar can assemble a worthy supporting cast.
The more I think about it, 2006 was the peak. The Floyd/Nady/LoDuca/Valentin/Endy/Glavine/Trachsel/El Duque/Bradford/Sanchez/Oliver supporting cast was the best one Beltran, Wright and Reyes (and Pedro) have had. Now I’m pessimistic again.
stickguy
12/5/2009-4:45pm at 4:45 pm (UTC -4)
see if I can cheer you up hebs.
As to the Rays, the point is, teams can be way down one year easily (for a lot of reasons), and be way up the next without spending a fortune (sometimes) or making drastic changes. And past returns are no guarantee of future success!
Your point about the supporting cast should also make you optomistic. For one thing, Omar put that crew together, so there is precedant.
Also, none of those guys were really that good, and most were cast offs, never weres, or unknowns.
So, there is hope, even for the people crying in their beer that Omar is only going to get “2nd tier” guys. It is also way, way, way easier to grab some good support people to fill in (especially on the cheap) than it is to plugin another star.
wolf/frenchy/cameron, etc. actually looks good compared to the supporting guys you listed from 2006.
I still think they add 1 stud big name (Holliday for LF is my guess), and if they do, and can get 3-4 more solid support guys (and a “leap guy” pops up) it could be a fun year.
wannybackstra
12/5/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
For those wondering why the Mets continue to search for a catcher, the following article identifies the Mets feeling that Santos does not handle the pitching staff well (not to mention he probably hit over his head last season which was still below average):
Mets still looking for catching help
Comments: 3
By BART HUBBUCH
Last Updated: 8:33 AM, December 5, 2009
Posted: 1:00 AM, December 5, 2009
Omar Minaya’s shopping spree at catcher — a campaign that remains unfinished — is not just the general manager’s doing, but also the result of complaints from manager Jerry Manuel and Mets pitching coach Dan Warthen. Manuel and especially Warthen were not happy with the ability of Omir Santos and, to a lesser extent, Brian Schneider to call a game and handle the Mets’ pitching staff last season. Asked by The Post late in the year how he felt about the catchers’ defense and handling of the pitchers, Warthen pursed his lips and said: “Next question.” METS BLOG That helps explain Minaya’s decision this week to sign veteran backup catchers Henry Blanco and Chris Coste and continue his pursuit of a veteran starter — most likely ex-Giant Bengie Molina — at the Winter Meetings next week in Indianapolis. Schneider departed to the Phillies in free agency this week, and the Mets’ flurry of backstop moves coupled with the presence of catcher-in-waiting Josh Thole at the Triple-A level leave Santos the odd man out despite earning a spot on the prestigious Topps Rookie All-Star Team. Santos, 28, always was unlikely to return as the Mets’ starting catcher, but the unhappiness within the coaching staff at his defensive abilities now appears to have the former Yankees farmhand ticketed back to the minors, or perhaps even out of the organization completely. Mets catchers, combined, threw out 34 of 100 would-be base stealers, which ranked third in the NL, but Manuel and Warthen held them partially responsible for the staff’s 4.46 ERA — 12th in the league — and the whopping 616 walks that were just three shy the franchise record. The 38-year-old Blanco is considered one of the better defensive backups in baseball, justifying his one-year, $1.5 million deal despite a career .228 batting average. Blanco should make a nice pairing, at least in the Mets’ eyes, with Molina or another veteran starter for one season until Thole is ready in 2011. The Mets officially announced the return of Wayne Krivsky to their front office as special assistant to Minaya. Krivsky had spent part of the 2008 season working for Minaya after being fired as Cincinnati’s general manager, then went to the Orioles for one season before being lured back to the Mets. It’s no secret that Krivsky, widely respected for his skills at reviving farm systems, also is a potential Minaya successor if the Mets struggle again next season. bhubbuch@nypost.com
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Omar Minaya’s shopping spree at catcher — a campaign that remains unfinished — is not just the general manager’s doing, but also the result of complaints from manager Jerry Manuel and Mets pitching coach Dan Warthen.
Manuel and especially Warthen were not happy with the ability of Omir Santos and, to a lesser extent, Brian Schneider to call a game and handle the Mets’ pitching staff last season.
Asked by The Post late in the year how he felt about the catchers’ defense and handling of the pitchers, Warthen pursed his lips and said: “Next question.”
Omir Santos
AP
Omir Santos
METS BLOG
That helps explain Minaya’s decision this week to sign veteran backup catchers Henry Blanco and Chris Coste and continue his pursuit of a veteran starter — most likely ex-Giant Bengie Molina — at the Winter Meetings next week in Indianapolis.
Schneider departed to the Phillies in free agency this week, and the Mets’ flurry of backstop moves coupled with the presence of catcher-in-waiting Josh Thole at the Triple-A level leave Santos the odd man out despite earning a spot on the prestigious Topps Rookie All-Star Team.
Santos, 28, always was unlikely to return as the Mets’ starting catcher, but the unhappiness within the coaching staff at his defensive abilities now appears to have the former Yankees farmhand ticketed back to the minors, or perhaps even out of the organization completely.
Mets catchers, combined, threw out 34 of 100 would-be base stealers, which ranked third in the NL, but Manuel and Warthen held them partially responsible for the staff’s 4.46 ERA — 12th in the league — and the whopping 616 walks that were just three shy the franchise record.
The 38-year-old Blanco is considered one of the better defensive backups in baseball, justifying his one-year, $1.5 million deal despite a career .228 batting average.
Blanco should make a nice pairing, at least in the Mets’ eyes, with Molina or another veteran starter for one season until Thole is ready in 2011.
The Mets officially announced the return of Wayne Krivsky to their front office as special assistant to Minaya.
Krivsky had spent part of the 2008 season working for Minaya after being fired as Cincinnati’s general manager, then went to the Orioles for one season before being lured back to the Mets.
It’s no secret that Krivsky, widely respected for his skills at reviving farm systems, also is a potential Minaya successor if the Mets struggle again next season.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/mets_still_looking_for_catching_nhTRlskBAFcDoHmT6jfnfL#ixzz0YpXo730k
Kingman 26
12/5/2009-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Thanks for posting this.
His comments about Blanco’s defensive ability are hugely relevant, and maybe Blanco catches half the games or more and maybe Thole comes up mid-season?
And Warthen blaming the chatchers for the walks? I think that is a bad joke.
Just cannot see Omar signing an overweight, declining older catcher to a big several-year deal, and how does Hubbuch know who Omar will pursue next week?
We shall see in the coming weeks….
wannybackstra
12/5/2009-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think any of us are capable of commenting on whether a particular catcher calls a good game. But while I don’t think Molina is an attractive option because of his declining ability and salary demands, I have little faith in Santos as an every day player. His major league line of .260 .296 .391 is unimpressive and is probably beyond what we could expect again considering his .258 .304 .348 career minor league line.
For even money, Molina is the better bet. But, of course, the money won’t be even.
I agree, though, that Warthen deserves somem if not the majority of the blame for the pitchers walk problems. He has no right to this job. At the same time, the catchers probably had an adverse contribution to this problem as did mental midgets like Ollie Perez and Mike Pelfrey.
whataputz
12/5/2009-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
Only the Mets do this. Can’t just have a normal knowledgeable pitching coach. First its the almighty guru of pitching, then it’s Forrest Gump.
stickguy
12/5/2009-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
well, look at the bright side. Most likely, he goes with Jerry if they get off to a slow start.
stickguy
12/5/2009-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
I put snatos in the catagory of castillo and Frenchy and murphy. Not great, and not a star, but if the money runs out and you loaded up elsewehre, they ae OK as support players.
But, in each spot, if they can cost (and prospect) effectivley upgrade and improve, then yeah, replace them.
Look, if Santos was a FA, along with the rest of them, he would be lumped into the “eh” pool of dreck. He just happens to be our inexpensive dreck.
I still don’t like Molina, times 10 if it is more than 1 year or a few million.
Navarro is a good D catcher, right? Heck, he took a young staff to the WS!
plenty of better optins if they can swing it. Castillo too.
I am all for iproving the D this off season. The quickest, cheapest way to make the pitching better IMHO.
wannybackstra
12/5/2009-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
i agree with all of the above. but we need to improve wherever we can because there may not be attainable solutions to all of the problems. and if omar decides to just leave one position alone to focus on the others, we will wind up blaming him later on for having tunnel vision.
GravediggerHebner
12/5/2009-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
Well I just read that Chris Coste played in Buffalo for 3 years (2000-2002) and was the team MVP in 2002, so I am putting more stock in the idea that he will be at AAA playing some C and some 1B for Buffalo, and less worried that he will be a 3rd C for the Mets, while also spelling Murphy at 1B. I know the Mets are making an effort to strengthen the relationship with Buffalo and sending a former MVP up there can’t hurt. He’ll probably be the first call up if Blanco and (Santos? Molina? Other?) go on the DL.
The flip side is now I can’t hope that Coste’s presence on the roster means no Molina. So there’s that. I’ve gotta hope the articles today about pitch calling and relationship with the pitchers are the priority, and hope Mike Silva at NYBD is correct about the team’s emphasis on that, and will somehow acquire Gerald Laird to tandem with Blanco.
Laird/Blanco as C aren’t going to provide much offense, but no one will run on those guys and they should get improved performance out of the pitchers. This is my latest fantasy for the Mets: Laird/Blanco. It’s half done, Omar get on the other half.
stickguy
12/5/2009-4:49pm at 4:49 pm (UTC -4)
Im good with a couple of super strong catchers to pull the pitching out of the crapper. Molina has some power, or did last year (for some reason it seems to disappear when they hit the mets), but probably not enough to cover a declining defensive presence and miniscule OBP.
stickguy
12/5/2009-5:38pm at 5:38 pm (UTC -4)
also, after reading about Coste for the last few years and seeing him interviewed, he has manager of the future written all over him.
Of course, sounds like he wants it to be with the Phils, but you cant have everything.
CaseStreet
12/5/2009-3:17pm at 3:17 pm (UTC -4)
Why is everyone so adverse to Molina?
He averaged 18.3 HR in past 3 years. That’d be nice to have in the 7 or 8 hole. His defense has to be netter than schneider and game calling prob much better than Santos. A three yr deal is too much but not two. Will thole be ready to start in just 1 yr in AAA and be better than Molina at age 36?
Is Molina any slower then delgado or fielder? Yet we don’t have problems with them batting 4th but we do with Molina 7th or 8th.
If Omar can pull Molina after lackey and Cameron, I have no problems with 2/10.
GravediggerHebner
12/5/2009-3:50pm at 3:50 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t want Delgado back, he’s 38 coming off injury, I’d take Fielder because he’s not a C and young. I can’t speak to the game calling because I have no way to know.
I can’t speak for anyone else but for me it’s a combination of these things, in no particular order:
Fat,
36 years old next July,
most SBs allowed in the NL last year (85, including watching 7 of them by the Mets making him look impotent defensively),
that he’s allowed an increasing number of successful stolen bases (53, 68, 85) in each of the last 3 years,
the fact he’s publicly made his aversion to a 1 year deal known,
horrible career OBP of .308,
worry (perhaps unfounded) that his 1 positive (HR power) will be muted in Citi Field,
knowing that the Phillies and Dodgers did fine with 14 HR overall from the C position, the Cards had 8 and the Rockies 18 while the Braves with 28, the DBacks with 22 and Bengie’s Giants with 21 led the NL in team HR from C yet sat home in October.
Basically for me the nice possibility of 20 HR does not outweigh the unfortunate possiblities of a C declining due to age, poor physical conditioning, awful OBP in a lineup that already has Francoeur, inability to throw out runners, and potentially blocking one of the few prospects the Mets actually have.
I don’t hate the guy. I would love to have had him for the last few years and be letting him go now. Signing him now, not so much.
fongy2
12/5/2009-4:54pm at 4:54 pm (UTC -4)
Very good post Heb!
And I’ll say it again for the tenth time,
Anyone who wants Molina on any more than a one year gamble, PLEASE do some
reaseach on the history of above average to great Catchers at the MLB level. Note how fast and how far their offensive AND defensive product falls,usually after32
for most and 35 for the rest. As a gambling man for three decades,I’d lay
odds that we’d more likely get Molina’s offensive production
of 2002 and defensive production of 2009
next season than the other way around.
I too am a great Delgado fan but again, its time to move on from that/him.
Oh, and Molina is slower than him and any everyday I’ve ever seen.
If Omar wastes the money to sign him and
he indeed gives us .250/10&50 in the 7 hole with a sub.300
OBP folling Frenchy in the line-up and someone like Castillo
in the 8 hole, our big 3 will have to have the best yrs of their life just for us to be decent.
No good but .500ish.
And I thinks its funny and further notes the truly sad state of those in charge(Jeff,Omar,Jerry&Warthen) that they weren’t
happy with the way
our Catchers”called games”. Just more excuses! Doesn’t Jerry and his Pitching Coach meet with the Catchers and Pitchers before a series and discuss how they’ll pitch guys
in various situations?
I mean like every other team does.
Further what pitchers are they talking about? Johan,Maine,Ollie?
All of whom missed significant time with
injuries.
Or was it the Figgys and Reddings of the
world who are either AAAA pitchers or just bad MLB pitchers?
We could have had the
2001 combo of Unit and Schill out there
and it wasn’t gonna give us a pennant…
Not with what we fielded because of the injuries and Omar
inability to have adequate reserves or
even have guys at Buffalo who could have held the fort…
despite five amateur
drafts unfer his belt to that point.
Santos and Thole were
greatly responsible for the failings of our pitching staff??
C’mon! See this is exactly what I mean about the complete lack of leadership with this team.
A) Mgmt..take responsibility as you should!
B) Even if you guys do feel this way about
Santos and even Thole,
don’t let everyone know about it, thus clawing away some of the value they might have on the market.
Thank God the likes of
our front office and
field managment staff aren’t in charge of
anything more important than our favorite baseball team.
stickguy
12/5/2009-4:55pm at 4:55 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t hate him, he just scares me as a player to add.
If he was another 1 year/3 mill guy, take a shot. But not 2 years, and not 8mill per.
fongy2
12/5/2009-5:09pm at 5:09 pm (UTC -4)
I agree! I want no part of him but if the situation was like last yr,where it’s
late Jan/early Feb and hes still free w/o a contract and we’ve already picked up a good LFer and #2SP and an arm or two in the BP, you can reach out to him and see if he’d accept
a 1yr deal for a couple/three mil. If it doesn’t work, it’s easy to cut ties and move on.
But anything more than a yr or spending more than 2/3mil on an
old,fat and slow Catcher whos defensive
skills are clearly fading makes no sense.
Not for us, not coming off
of last season,
on top of what we went through
in ’07&’08 with the likes of Alou.
stickguy
12/5/2009-5:39pm at 5:39 pm (UTC -4)
makes sense to Omar unfortuneately.
CaseStreet
12/5/2009-7:54pm at 7:54 pm (UTC -4)
Old
Molina 35
posada 37
varitek 37
blanco 38
Kendall 35
pudge 37
all old but all still catching somehow
Kingman 26
12/5/2009-8:38pm at 8:38 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, but wasn’t Fong (correctly) referring to most of them suffering a precipitous decline the last few years, and that we might expect the same with Molina as he turns 36 and 37?
GravediggerHebner
12/5/2009-8:43pm at 8:43 pm (UTC -4)
I could just say “Hey Case, we agreed on Tex last year, Halladay this year but we disagree on Molina, cest la vie.”
But oh no, it’s on now.
Posada – exceptional hitter for a catcher, Posada’s career OBP & SLG are 70 points higher than Molina’s and were 80 points higher last year. If Molina possessed Posada’s offensive skill set we wouldn’t be having this argument.
Varitek – really? are you willfully ignoring his decline in offensive production the last 3 years (conveniently the same ages Molina would be for the Mets on a 3 year deal) and ignoring his lost playing time to Victor Martinez last year, and his back up status as of now? Varitek allowed 108 SB last year and had a 13% CS rate. No wonder the Sox replaced him.
Blanco – he’s in an appropriate role with it’s corresponding lesser pay rate and annual commitment. If Molina had Blanco’s defensive chops I’d welcome him as a back up on a 1 year deal.
Kendall – just lost his job (to someone even older who you didn’t mention) because he asked for $5 mil, but for his career has more walks than strikeouts. He’s walked more times in the last 3 years than Molina has in the last 6, demonstrated by his career OBP that’s 60 points higher.
Pudge – recently a pathetic offensive performer, no doubt, but at least opposing teams respect him and don’t run at will on him like they do Molina.
Common denominator – none of these guys are fat. There are 30 teams in the Major Leagues and you just found 6 examples of old catchers to make me feel better about getting an old catcher, 1 (Posada) who is in a very small class offensively, 2 (Varitek, Kendall) who are in obvious decline and have just lost their jobs, 1 (Blanco) who has stellar defensive skills and is appropriately a back up, 1 (Pudge) who OK, you got me I can’t explain why he still has a job, and 1 (Molina) who you want to be the Mets next starting catcher. Hooray!
CaseStreet
12/5/2009-8:53pm at 8:53 pm (UTC -4)
Lol
yes he is due to decline but he’s a couple of years younger than those guys
no I don’t WANT Molina buy it wouldn’t be the end of the world
Kingman 26
12/5/2009-8:59pm at 8:59 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed on both counts.
But if he costs $5-6 mil a year, and if we are going to spend a lot on Roy/Lackey/Holliday, I would SO much rather have Mike Gonzalez and/or Cameron and let Santos and Blanco decline together in Queens.
GravediggerHebner
12/5/2009-9:03pm at 9:03 pm (UTC -4)
Well if your whole point in this is to convince me that “it would not be the end of the world” then consider yourself successful.
I know it wouldn’t be the end of the world.
Would I accept him as Met catcher? Yes.
But since it’s the off season and we have multiple choices available through free agency or trade, I’m simply expressing that he is not at or close to the top of my personal list of preferences, for the reasons noted above.
CaseStreet
12/5/2009-9:20pm at 9:20 pm (UTC -4)
We could pay holliday 20M or Cameron 7, laroche 7 and Molina 5
CaseStreet
12/5/2009-8:02pm at 8:02 pm (UTC -4)
OBP past 3 yes
olivo .276
barajas .286
bako .295
pudge .297
kenji and navarro .301
Molina .302
laird .303
blanco .304
Castro .311
Flores .313
salty .314
all horrid OBP yet they are catching in the bigs
GravediggerHebner
12/5/2009-9:42pm at 9:42 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, they are “catching in the bigs.”
Of the 11 catchers you mention, 3 (Bako, Blanco, Castro) are back ups, 1 (Johjima) just went to Japan, 1 (Navarro) may be non-tendered any day now according to reports, 2 (Flores & Salty) are very young and oft-injured players who theoretically at least are on the upswing, and 1 (Laird) has thrown out at least 40% of opponents trying to steal against him in 5 of the last 6 years.
So that leaves Molina, Barajas and Olivo for comparison, who are all similarly undesirable to me, but if I were forced to choose the 2010 Met starting catcher from among those 3 only, I would rank them
Olivo
Barajas
Molina
Because I think Olivo and Molina are almost exactly the same and I think I could get Olivo on better terms, and he’s 4 years younger. Barajas is even less palatable to me than Molina, but I would rather be stuck with him for 1 year than Molina for 2 or 3 and Molina has publicly stated his distaste for a 1 year deal.
CaseStreet
12/5/2009-8:15pm at 8:15 pm (UTC -4)
Can’t argue about stolen bases. That’s probably why I would not want Molina. But to compare:
varitek 108
aj 99
bengie 85
Suzuki 81
posada 80
baker 79
mccann 76
Napoli 74
Martin 74
not a huge diff btw Molina and Martin or Napoli
CaseStreet
12/5/2009-8:29pm at 8:29 pm (UTC -4)
The thought of not signing a FA because he might block a prospect is crazy to me.
Thole is just a prospect and def not better than Molina at the moment. If he were he’d be starting or at least sharing time behind the plate. Would thole not benefit from a year or two catching in AA or AAA? Even super star posey isn’t ready.
Having depth is a good thing. Too bad we weren’t blocking players in 09, we could have used some help.
IMO a 2 yr deal wouldn’t hurt anyone. You would have thole for six yes b4 FA. So even if hr came up full time at 24, we’d have him till he’d 30.
trs86
12/5/2009-8:35pm at 8:35 pm (UTC -4)
I could go 1+1 for 5 million a year but that’s tops. The guy does not have the respect of any runners anymore. At this point he is worse than Piazza and at least Piazza was a plus at the plate which I am not sure Molina is anymore. Now if we did not have Murphy and Frenchy I could see more need. If you replace Murphy with a decent OBP guy then it becomes a better possibility to me.
CaseStreet
12/5/2009-9:11pm at 9:11 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with you on the contract but the obp argument doesn’t hold water when barajas 258, Molina 285, bard 293, Santos 296, doumit 299 and laird 306 in 09. It’s not a huge diff
CaseStreet
12/5/2009-8:40pm at 8:40 pm (UTC -4)
Strikeouts 09
olivo 126
Napoli 103
posada 101
shoppach 98
salty 97
pudge 92
varitek 90
baker 89
wieters 86
mccann 83
Martin 80
montero 78
soto 77
barajas 76
iannetta 75
vmart 74
Molina 68
laird 68
Mauer 63
yeah Molina really strikes out alot just not compared to other catchers. Past 3 seasons same thing.
metsfan4decades
12/5/2009-5:11pm at 5:11 pm (UTC -4)
Fmart has to be the most fragile young ball player I’ve ever followed…
Per Rubin:
‘Martinez, who was hitting .167 with two RBI in six games with Escogido, has been sidelined since last Saturday with blisters. Martinez believes the trouble surfaced during an aggressive batting practice session. He officially is day-to-day, but the blisters reportedly haven’t substantially improved.’
And he continues (couldn’t believe he was serious here but apparently he is):
‘The continued trouble has led to advice from ex-Met Moises Alou, who is GM of Martinez’s winter-ball team. Alou, who used to urinate on his hands to increase the skin’s toughness, has recommended Martinez do the same thing.’
Just made me laugh out loud.
Can these winter meetings start already so these sports writers don’t have to dig for stories like this to make us look even more ridiculous than we did last year?
fongy2
12/5/2009-5:15pm at 5:15 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, sae this earlier. Funny and sad.
MF4D, I do have a bone to pick with you though.
Earlier you said there wasn’t
a team in the NL East more dominant than the others.
Huh, you do remember that the phils are in the NL East,right?
stickguy
12/5/2009-5:42pm at 5:42 pm (UTC -4)
hey Fong, ancient history baby. every team is back to 0-0 now!
I know, that was kinda snarky. But seriously, at this point, any comments like MF4Ds should be about what you expect for next year.
metsfan4decades
12/5/2009-7:53pm at 7:53 pm (UTC -4)
Fongy, my friend – we Met fans should be doing an intervention with you concerning your unhealthy ‘love’ you have for the Phillies – LOL….
Seriously….here’s my thoughts on the Phils:
- Unless they shore up that bench, they too are one or two injuries away from disaster. So far, I don’t think they added anything with Valdez and Schneider.
- They still need another SP. Know one has any idea if they’re going to get the ’08 Hamels or the ’09 Hamels next year. They need a 8th inning guy that can close b/c of the same reason re: Lidge.
- Ibanez is coming off surgery too, right? Given his age, LF might be a problem for them as well.
Right now, I think they’re in the same boat the Mets are with SP: an ace and rest all question marks. If they do better their rotation and get some viable bench guys and most remain healthy, they will probably be tough to beat. But not impossible.
Kingman 26
12/5/2009-8:46pm at 8:46 pm (UTC -4)
I love the Mets, I hate the Yanks, now that the WS is over I hate the Phils again, but MF4D, the Phils are, unfortunately, a lot better than that.
Remember–their bullpen, by default, will be MUCH better next year, and this will mean, regardless of the above questions, several more wins.
Plus, like us, they are probably far from done this offseason.
trs86
12/5/2009-8:50pm at 8:50 pm (UTC -4)
They don’t have the money to do much more. Unless they really up payroll.
Kingman 26
12/5/2009-9:00pm at 9:00 pm (UTC -4)
I really like you and MF4D a lot, so I am going to back off on any more Phillie comments!!
I hope they go 0-162 next year, I really do.
GravediggerHebner
12/5/2009-6:15pm at 6:15 pm (UTC -4)
No matter how optimistic some of us as Met fans may be (and thank you Stickguy for the additional cheer above), there is a perception we need to consider, even though perception and reality don’t always match.
From MLBTR: “Free agent Mark DeRosa is in a state of flux, writes Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The Cardinals, Braves, Yankees, Giants, and Red Sox are all possibilities, but each have higher priorities than the 34-year-old. The Mets and Nationals are also interested in the right-handed batter, but he would prefer to play for a contender.”
Go ahead and re-read that last sentence again.
We can mock Rosenthal, Heyman and his ilk all we want. But if a player wants to “play for a contender,” we need to realize that player is not necessarily considering the Mets as a destination.
Whether Rosenthal is just taking a dig at the Mets or not, surely he’s not the only person (writer or ballplayer) who lumps the Mets in with the non-contenders.
stickguy
12/5/2009-6:59pm at 6:59 pm (UTC -4)
well, don’t get your panties in a bunch here. For all the talk, very few players have accomplished so much (and made so much money) that they aren’t looking for the biggest buck. Maybe Jr. Girffey would talk a short deal for a WS ring? Who knows.
But Derosa is essentially a fringe player that has hung aro0und for a while, and likely not every cahsed in huge (not that we are going to need to take up a collection for him).
ALso, did HE ever single out the Mets as not being a contender? I think the Media hacks love to put out digs on the Mets, knowing they are going to get a reaction (aka hits, aka $$).
If a “contender” offers him 1 year at 4 mill, and the Mets (or the Nats, or Pitt) offer up 2/12, damned right he is going to take it!
anyway, I think “play for a contender” is really just code for “please Mr. Cashman, sing me so I can get overpaid and piggybag for a ring too”
fongy2
12/5/2009-7:03pm at 7:03 pm (UTC -4)
Tell Sweet Lou and the Cubs about what a fringe player he is.
Star??…No.
But nice piece on a winning team…Yes.
metsfan4decades
12/5/2009-7:55pm at 7:55 pm (UTC -4)
I read that earlier…
Is there any guarantee any one team remains contenders for several years to come? Even the almighty Yankees fell from grace in ’08.
prismo
12/5/2009-6:26pm at 6:26 pm (UTC -4)
F*** you Ken Rosenthal!!!!
“Lesser teams such as the Mets and Nationals also are interested in DeRosa, according to major-league sources. But, like so many free agents, his first choice is to play for a contender.”
The Mets suddenly aren’t a contender? BOO ROSENTHAL!!! BOO!!!
fongy2
12/5/2009-7:00pm at 7:00 pm (UTC -4)
Thats right Pris, Stinks…
but at this point more true than not. Our four best players are all question marks entering 2010(Reyes,Wright,Beltran&Johan),
Not a great supporting cast(yet)around them,add’l questions with the rest of the rotaion,who knows about
the Bullpen,not much help
ready from the minors and even
more questions with our FO,field management and coaching staff AND lets not
forget about that medical and training staff. On top of all this, a fourth place finish just a couple months ago.
So, no. Right now we’re pretty
far from anyone honestly saying we’re viable contenders.
stickguy
12/5/2009-7:01pm at 7:01 pm (UTC -4)
reverse jinx maybe? The same know-nothings that picked the Mets for the WS are all going to over react and pick them to be an also ran in 2010.
The champagne will taste that much sweeter when they clinch a post season berth!
Kingman 26
12/5/2009-7:12pm at 7:12 pm (UTC -4)
LOL and amen!
Kingman 26
12/5/2009-7:11pm at 7:11 pm (UTC -4)
The Giants are in a different league of being contender-worthy than the Mets?
Are the Cardinals and Braves, on paper right now assuming most players stay healthy, really in a different league than us?
Do we belong being classified with the Nats with Johan, KRod, Reyes, Wright, Beltran, and a possible addition of 1–2 more very good players?
Does going to the Giants, Braves, or Cards really put a player THAT much closer to the postseason at the beginning of 2010?
Heyman and Rosenthal and their ilk are non-athlete parasites who run around begging for scraps of info from players, agents and executives who pretty much all consider them parasites who they use to feed the public info, most of which is for political and economic purposes, and not for factual ones. Heyman tells SI.com that we are going to sign Pudge, than hours later tells WFAN we are going to sign Molina.
Yes, I am back on the side of the perhaps irrational optimists, but what Rosenthal and Heyman say just really does not mean very much.
If DeRosa really told this to Rosenthal, which is dubious at best, it probably means that DeRosa wants more money.
stickguy
12/5/2009-7:54pm at 7:54 pm (UTC -4)
word of the day: parasite. I like it!
Derosa is a 34 YO bench guy/fringe starter. Damned right he is grabbing every dollar he can, while he can, which isn’t likely to be much longer.
metsfan4decades
12/5/2009-7:58pm at 7:58 pm (UTC -4)
You tell ‘em, Kingman.
Comparing the Mets to the Nats is just…..wrong.
stickguy
12/5/2009-8:00pm at 8:00 pm (UTC -4)
could be worse. He could be comparing them to the Nets!
Kingman 26
12/5/2009-8:10pm at 8:10 pm (UTC -4)
OUCH!!!
LOL!
Kingman 26
12/5/2009-8:11pm at 8:11 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed MF4D!
I am fully recovered from 2009 already and ready for Omar and his new pal Wayne to make a big splash in Indy next week.
stickguy
12/5/2009-7:59pm at 7:59 pm (UTC -4)
to piggy back on Fongy (wait, that didn’t sound dirty, did it?), EVERY team can put up that kind of doom and gloomworst case scenerio forcast. Some are just worse than others (and for sure, the flip side, rosy opptomist upside is way lowerformany teams!)
can the phils keep a line up of old guys just about 100% healthy again? Can they overcome a terrible BP? Etc.
Even the red sox (Dice K, wakefield, Drew, Scaturo and others) have pelnty of question marks.
Not saying the Mets dont have questions, but they also have plenty of potential.
At least we seem to know the floor (70 wins) if the absolute worst happens!
Kingman 26
12/5/2009-8:16pm at 8:16 pm (UTC -4)
I would say if we wind up with Halladay, Lackey, or Holliday, and one more relaible bullpen arm, 81-81 is the floor in 2010. And only then if we see a repeat of the 2009 injury situation, which is completely impossible.
Of course, if we are the next possesors and guardians of the Legend of Gritty McHudson, the floor will be 97-65; 110-52 and a title if he sits on the bench in September and October.
GravediggerHebner
12/5/2009-10:53pm at 10:53 pm (UTC -4)
On the topic of Catcher defense, Dave Allen of Baseball Analysts has studied ALL the pitchf/x data since it’s inception in mid-2007 and come up with a formula for probabilty of wild pitches and passed balls.
He used that formula to establish a benchmark for an average catcher, then studied the data compared to actual passed balls and wild pitches allowed.
Using his formula, he has published a list of catchers who either do or don’t prevent wild pitches and passed balls compared to this average.
The best catchers at preventing them over this period are Greg Zaun and Kurt Suzuki, and the worst are Bengie Molina and Jorge Posada.
Check out this link for a better explanation than I can provide, as well as the full list and some nice charts.
http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/fx_visualizatio_1/