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by kingman 26
According to Metsblog, the GM for the Cardinals have made an official offer to Matt Holliday
-Shhhhh cards…your supposed to be the “secret team”
12/11/2009-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
My conspiracy is that the Mets making an offer to Bay caused the Cards to make an offer to Holliday. What? Don’t buy it? That’s OK it’s not the only foolish conspiracies going around today spread by certain unnamed reporters working for some newspaper.
12/11/2009-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
12/11/2009-3:13pm at 3:13 pm (UTC -4)
The Cards are really only making an offer to Holliday because they’re confused about the true meaning of “holiday season.”
12/11/2009-3:18pm at 3:18 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe they are like half the posters at Metsblog and think it’s Halladay.
12/11/2009-4:56pm at 4:56 pm (UTC -4)
Ha! Mike Holladay has a great arm!
12/12/2009-12:10am at 12:10 am (UTC -4)
I am even more confident now that I know that Ankeil does not want to pitch in NY.
12/11/2009-3:21pm at 3:21 pm (UTC -4)
it’s obvious the Cards made an offer to Holliday so they can tell Pujols they tried. They don’t really want Holliday or else they would’ve signed him a while ago. They better not be low balling Boras.
12/11/2009-3:27pm at 3:27 pm (UTC -4)
I think they made it to appease the fans. Season ticket sells are going on and they need a big story because the Brewers signed Wolf and Hawkins.
What? Don’t buy that either?
Man tough crowd, I could never write for a newspaper.
12/11/2009-3:47pm at 3:47 pm (UTC -4)
Speaking of tough crowds, I come from a tough neighborhood. As a kid I put my hand in some fresh cement and felt another hand.
I’m here all week, try the veal.
12/11/2009-9:10pm at 9:10 pm (UTC -4)
12/11/2009-3:34pm at 3:34 pm (UTC -4)
What is our consensus on what the Mets will do with Tim Redding? He is still under contract and arbitration eligible. He made 2.25 last season but 1 million the season before. Chances are he would cost between 1.5-2.5 million. Would he be worth keeping for depth or to trade later? Will they trade him before the deadline? Will they just cut bait?
12/11/2009-3:52pm at 3:52 pm (UTC -4)
umm, keep him around for Batting Practice
actually, I’ll think they’ll keep him until to establish some SP depth, then they’ll trade him for the never ending bag of peanuts
they offer him a 4 year contract to appease the fans
12/11/2009-3:58pm at 3:58 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps. I was hoping somehow he would be used with Castillo to somehow to the Cubs. I would think they could use him to replace Heilman considering he is uh… Heilman.
12/11/2009-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
No! What if the Mets get Heilman back???? NOOOOOOOO!!!!
12/11/2009-4:02pm at 4:02 pm (UTC -4)
I thought Green was Heilman, now I’m confused
12/12/2009-4:31am at 4:31 am (UTC -4)
Worthless. If the Mets need to use him in their staff at all this season, something has gone horribly awry! And he’s NOT worth 2mil.
12/11/2009-3:36pm at 3:36 pm (UTC -4)
Also do the Yankees tender Wang a contract?
12/11/2009-3:50pm at 3:50 pm (UTC -4)
I’m sorry, this is your fault for recommending penicillin for Kunz, but I can’t stop laughing at the phrase “tender Wang.”
12/11/2009-3:56pm at 3:56 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, I was going to make a post titled Yanks to leave their Wang out to dry. You think that would have been inappropriate?
12/11/2009-4:06pm at 4:06 pm (UTC -4)
He got paid 5M last year. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the arbitration $$ +/- 20% of previous year salary?
Or what’s the guideline for it?
I don’t know if Yankees are willing to shell out 4-5MM for Wang.
12/11/2009-4:12pm at 4:12 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, looks like he most likely will be non-tendered. I would be interested but on the open market he most likely gets too much.
btw, someone mentioned Bay didn’t commit any errors last year. it’s hard to commit an error if you don’t get to the ball.
12/11/2009-4:14pm at 4:14 pm (UTC -4)
was watching Figgy’s 5th loss in Sept last night (Mets scored 10 runs for him in 5 games) and they were talking about the defensive outfield. There was a small debate whether Endy, Beltran and Gomez was better than Pagan, Beltran and Frenchy.
12/11/2009-9:14pm at 9:14 pm (UTC -4)
Well, he had 15 assists, so he got to at least 15 balls…
12/11/2009-4:21pm at 4:21 pm (UTC -4)
Speaking of non-tenders, MLBTR has list of non-tender candidates up along with couple lines of comments. Sounds interesting.
Garko seems more and more interesting. I’m not sure if SF would keep him.
Another interesting name is DJ Carrasco. I haven’t heard much about him, but he pitched a lot last year. WHIP is slightly over 1.4 though. MLBTR describes his numbers as similar to Lyons.
12/11/2009-4:39pm at 4:39 pm (UTC -4)
Atkins, Garko, Kelly Johnson and Gomes are interesting too
12/11/2009-4:43pm at 4:43 pm (UTC -4)
Kelly Johnson is a VERY interesting possibility, especially considering that he plays LF and 2B, two areas the Mets are publicly trying to improve.
12/11/2009-4:52pm at 4:52 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with Kelly.
He was pretty productive in ’07 and’08. What I did not realize until looking at the article on MLBTR was that he was playing with an injured wrist. So, maybe he is primed for a rebound?
If he can play OF decently, not a bad option as a bat off the bench, and if they get lucky and finally dump castillo (or as is quite possible, he gets hurt), a handy replacement.
12/11/2009-5:09pm at 5:09 pm (UTC -4)
Very small sample (73 starts) but his LF defense (plus 17.9) is stellar, but he hasn’t played there since 2005. His 2B defense is a bigger sample (331 starts) but is negative for his career (minus 7.4).
In fact, when he was allegedly healthy in 2008 his defense rating (minus 10.7) was almost as bad as the 2009 Castillo (minus 12.0).
So I would hesitate to think of him as a long term answer at 2B but having him in house would give the team the flexibility to deal Castillo.
I agree with you Stick about him being intriguing as a bat off the bench though.
12/11/2009-5:18pm at 5:18 pm (UTC -4)
KJ off the bench would reduce Cora’s appearances as a PH.
12/11/2009-5:27pm at 5:27 pm (UTC -4)
That makes me want him even more.
Figuring 12 pitchers, 8 defenders, that leaves 5 bench spots.
C – Blanco
MIF – Cora
those seem set, leaving 3 spots. How do you guys see them shaking out?
Trying to insert Kelly J is not easy. If he’s a backup 2B/LF along with the two guys above, you pretty much must have the last two spots be backup CF and corner IF, and at least one of those pretty much must be RH.
12/11/2009-5:36pm at 5:36 pm (UTC -4)
At this point, there is still penty of time to adjust the bench, especially since some of the guys can stil be in the minors (evans, carter) right?
Get the talent in, and if yo have to move someone, do it.
hey, if KJ can handle LF well, he should be able to handle RF too, and heck, a 2B should be able to get by at SS or 3B in a pinch!
12/11/2009-5:38pm at 5:38 pm (UTC -4)
Continuing the bench theme, in looking at the potential non-tender list to finish the bench, Garrett Atkins, Ryan Garko and Andy Marte stick out.
Garko doesn’t play 3B which doesn’t help his cause, the other two guys play both 1B & 3B.
I guess my bench if I were using the potential non-tender list to finish it off would be:
C – Blanco
MIF – Cora
2B/LF – K Johnson
CIF – Atkins
OF – Pagan
Whether Atkins would sign on for that role is a legit question, so I may have to sub Marte in that slot.
12/11/2009-6:09pm at 6:09 pm (UTC -4)
yeah, Atkins would be a great upgrade over Tatis.
And really, we don’t need two bench OFers if Pagan is the 4th.
12/11/2009-6:15pm at 6:15 pm (UTC -4)
That means no Tatis, because he doesn’t have the bat to platoon with Murph at 1B. But does Atkins? Does Garko?
I believe they’ve got more upside than Tatis for a 1B platoon, but Tatis was a luxury in that he played 5 positions (1B-3B-2B-LF-RF).
12/11/2009-6:19pm at 6:19 pm (UTC -4)
And if the right team has interest in making Pagan a starting CF, the Mets should make that trade . . . leaving them with a less dynamic 4th OF. Reed or Sullivan?
12/11/2009-6:30pm at 6:30 pm (UTC -4)
I agree that if the team can acquire something genuinely useful in trading Pagan, they should certainly do that.
If they do that most of this discussion goes in the trash bin depending on what the Mets get back for him.
So for the sake of this discussion about the bench, I’m keeping him.
As far as Tatis goes, yes his positional versatility was very, very useful, and in his small 2009 samples he was good at all of them except RF.
I’m not against his return, but I am also inclined to tinker and believe that roster turnover will be good for the Mets. Obviously I can’t prove that in any verifiable way, I just think new blood to shake off the malaise of 2009 is good, and since he’s technically gone it’s easier for me to think of people to replace him than it is Pagan, who’s still with the team.
Therefore, as far as who would be good in a role as backup CIF or a platoon with Murphy, well both Atkins and Garko are made for the role.
Both have better numbers versus LHP than RHP.
Garko’s career slash line versus LHP is .313/.392/.495 and Atkins’ is .301/.384/.486.
Even in a terrible 2009, Atkins OPS versus LHP was 231 points higher than versus RHP.
If either guy would accept a platoon role with Murphy they should do quite well.
12/12/2009-12:09am at 12:09 am (UTC -4)
Guys looking at offensive and defensive stats for the past 2 years someone tell me why Atkins is a better option than Tatis?
As for the Bench
Pagan, Cora and Blanco are set. You need a RH that can play the corner IF spots and another OF.
If no one has signed Lopez I would still take a look. He can play all the IF and OF spots. I mentioned the other day one name to keep in mind is the Hessman guy we signed the other day. He played EVERY position possible last year in the minors including pitcher, catcher and DH. Not many guys that play 10 positions in a year.
12/12/2009-12:15am at 12:15 am (UTC -4)
cuz, stats don’t pick up intangibles?
Lopez will get a multi-year deal to start. Probably w/ the Dodgers.
12/11/2009-5:32pm at 5:32 pm (UTC -4)
Good thing I have you guys to look up the fancy pants stats. I usually just check BB reference for batting stuff.
The fielding stats I don’t usually know where to find, so I have to go by my half-assed recollection. Kinda like Omar!
12/11/2009-4:45pm at 4:45 pm (UTC -4)
Ultimately, given the lack of depth that was so blatantly exposed with the Mets this year, I don’t think they can thumb their nose at anyone on the list.
12/11/2009-6:38pm at 6:38 pm (UTC -4)
Garret Atkins would probably get a decent number of AB on this team. Besides playing a few games a week over at 1B, pinch hitting, and even at LF or RF and spelling Wright at 3B.
Best case scenario is that Atkins regains his old form and gives you 20+ HR 100 RBI out of the 6 hole and putting Murphy back on the bench as you’re pinching hitting extraordinaire…
worse case scenario you got a bench player with pop who’s still better than Tatis…of course he would need to become available though
12/11/2009-6:47pm at 6:47 pm (UTC -4)
He would be useful I have little doubt.
The big problem I’ve been overlooking in my lust to put him on the Met bench is that he made $7 mil last year, which is precisely why the Rockies are considering non-tendering him.
The Mets might be able to secure his services, but I doubt they’ll be able to do it as cheaply as they could with some others such as Garko ($446,000 – why are the Giants allegedly non-tendering him?).
12/11/2009-7:14pm at 7:14 pm (UTC -4)
i’m actually not aware of how it works…how much would the Mets have to pay him?
12/11/2009-7:28pm at 7:28 pm (UTC -4)
I believe if he is non-tendered than he becomes a free agent able to negotiate with any club for any salary. I’m just assuming that since he made $7 mil last year, he’s not going to come aboard for “bench money” here.
A player with his skills will probably see a bidding war of sorts for his services, unless I’m just grossly mis-estimating the market for Atkins or someone like him.
I don’t think he’s going to get a raise, cuz if he were going to get that much, someone would probably trade for him instead of waiting/hoping he’s non-tendered and deal with what he’d get in arbitration. But I suppose he could get close to what he’s making now.
I don’t know how relevant an example this is, but Tim Redding was non-tendered by the Nats after making $1 mil, and the Mets signed him for $2.25 mil (and might non-tender him themselves tomorrow night).
If TRS reads this I know he enjoys salary speculation and he might have something to add to the discussion.
12/11/2009-9:39pm at 9:39 pm (UTC -4)
My understanding of whole Arbitration system is that for the first full 3 years (2 years for elite players), players will get minimum salary (in the case of Garko), but years 4-6, they would receive arbitration salary (not sure how this is determined, but i believe it’s comparing salaries with someone similar talent)
for example, Jonathan Papelbon received highest arbitration money for a RP in 2009. Here’s what he got paid in his 4 year career.
So Papelbon would be arbitration eligible in 2010 and 2011, after which he can file for FA.
In case of Garko, 2010 is his 4th year, which makes him eligible for arbitration. So, his salary will have a big jump from $446K last year to couple million if not higher. So I think that’s why SF may non-tender him since they cannot afford to pay him that much.
In case of Redding, Nats non-tendered him after his 4th year and a good year. So, his arbitration value probably went up to what the Nats cannot afford. So, he was non-tendered and was paid $2.25M from the Met, which was his true market value.
12/11/2009-9:50pm at 9:50 pm (UTC -4)
Thank you for all the valuable info Kistics.
This does not bode well for my dream of Atkins.
12/11/2009-11:58pm at 11:58 pm (UTC -4)
I THINK that once the player is non-tendered then it’s a normal FA for that year. Thus if a team wants to pay him 10 million they can, however, the following year IF he still had arbitration years left he would still be arbitration eligible. The question is would it be based on the contract you gave him the year before or on market value?
12/12/2009-12:03am at 12:03 am (UTC -4)
Here’s the best example I can think of:
# 2 years/$6M (2009-10)
* signed by Baltimore as a free agent 2/5/09
* 09:$2.5M, 10:$3.5M
* award bonuses
# 1 year/$4.35M (2008)
* re-signed by Houston 1/18/08 (avoided arbitration)
* $50,000 in performance bonuses
* non-tendered by Houston 12/12/08
# 1 year/$2.7M (2007)
* re-signed by Tampa Bay 1/07 (avoided arbitration)
* acquired by Houston in trade from Tampa Bay 7/28/07
So 2007 he was finally full arbitration eligible and avoided by signing at 2.7. The following year he avoided by signing at 4.35. After that season he was non-tendered and was signed by the O’s for 2 years at less money than what his 2008 deal was for. I would assume that being that he was non-tendered by the Astro’s after 2008 that he had to be arbitration eligible.
I hope this clears things up. LOL.
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