In a very interesting read, Joel Sherman suspects the offer to Bay was a ploy to win back ticket holders and increase a stagnant ticket renewal so far this year. There have been several reports that ticket holders have been reluctant to renew their season tickets for next year and are in a “wait and see” mode. I myself am a usual subscriber of MLB Extra Innings (I live in FL) but am also in the same boat with the ticket holders. The economy has hit many of us so hard that to spend money on the luxury to watch our favorite team is one that can be debated. I don’t think personally that Joel is too far off with his theory as Boston tried to sign an extension with Jason Bay for relatively the same amount and were rejected. I don’t see Jason accepting this offer from the Mets if he has not declined it already and I also suspect the fans are not fooled.
The winter meetings for the Mets could have lulled anyone to sleep as uneventful as it went. While some people see this as a good strategy (i.e. John Franco), others are more anxious to see the team show some sign of life and wanting to improve. After the 2009 season I believe most met fans and ticket holders want to see some action or believe that the Mets are LEGITIMATELY trying to improve. It seems every off season is more difficult and challenging than the year before, yet Omar has managed to sign or trade for the player we needed and field a contending team every year (except 2009 of course). With this sort of pedigree, its really hard to believe the Mets offer to Jason bay was a ploy but they cynicism is understandable considering the offer is only $5 million more than the offer Jason rejected from Boston. Do you think this was a smokescreen to woo in ticket holders or can Jason Bay really be had at the Mets asking price with Matt Holiday still out there as an option for them to go after?
105 comments
trs86
12/11/2009-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
We kind of doubled up here. But as quoted in his story a Mets official said the following:
“We don’t want to jump in too early and miss the chance at a big guyâ€
I just can’t see the Mets not getting one of the big three. I am more along the lines that this COULD be an offer to force the Redsox to make a move. Either up your offer and get Bay so we can move on Holliday/Lackey OR back off and we get Bay for a reasonable contract.
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
I understand that. It was made for a purpose im sure but I dont see why boston cannot up their offer to top 5 mil or 4 years. Im sure boston wants Jason back as well instead of overpaying for sure on Matt Holiday. Im sorry i just thinks its ridiculous to think that 5 mil would be enough to really sway Jason to come here because boston cannot go much higher
trs86
12/11/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Of course it may not be enough on the primary offer. Why would they just open up with 5/75? Don’t you think Bay’s agent is smart enough to come back to the Mets if the Sox up their offer?
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
probably, but why would boston up their offer for 5 mil when they know jason wants to play there and apparently there are no other competitors for his services other than a team offering just 5 mil more.
trs86
12/11/2009-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t you think Bay’s agent is smart enough to come back to the Mets either way?
trs86
12/11/2009-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
Also, while I am not the biggest fan of back-loading contracts IF you really like Lackey then Bay might be the one to do it with.
Getting Bay for 5/75 (No I did not want to go the 5th year but if we back-load it then I am sure we would have to). 10, 15, 17, 18, 15. That would allow us to sign Lackey if he stays reasonable at about 5/85. 27 million for the first year allows some room. It would go up to 32 next year but then hopefully a solution will come up for 2B and perhaps catcher or even RF is filled in house with a prospect. The 15 million in the last year should make Bay tradeable.
trs86
12/11/2009-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Also based on these numbers: “As you know, the Mets topped Boston’s Jason Bay bid by $5MM by offering four years and $65MM yesterday. John Tomase of the Boston Herald provides some insight into Bay’s asking price: he says Bay’s agent countered the Boston offer with six years at $16-18MM annually. So, between $96-108MM. It’s been speculated by one official that the team offering Bay five years will get him.”
I believe 5/75 gets it done.
Here is my logic. Take the low ball offer the Sox offered in the beginning and average it with the lofty expectations of what Bay’s agent countered with. You get a 5 year offer worth 15 million a year. If the Mets REALLY want Bay then go ahead and get it done. If he turned that offer down then he just does not want to be a Met.
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
This is nonsense and embarrassing.
The very worst the offer is is a maneuver to get the Sox to finalize a deal with Bay so we can move on to Holliday.
This kind of thinking belongs at Metsblog or the Star Ledger comments section.
In the real world, businesses don’t offer someone 65 million dollars if they have no desire to have the person. Only on blogs and comment boards is this rational thinking.
Geez, I heard a report that when Omar checked out of the Indy Marriott and left the housekeeper a $3 tip,and then Jeff Wilpon went back and picked up one of the dollars. That can be the next story.
prismo
12/11/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Hey, we’re an opinion blog. You don’t have to agree with everyone everyone posts – we don’t vote on a consensus before making a post.
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
I agree, but aren’t I giving an opinion too??
prismo
12/11/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Yes?
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Oh its completely unheard of for team to make an offer to keep other teams honest….what was I thinking?
Would the mets like to have jason, im sure they do or they wouldnt have made an offer. The reason people are so skeptical is that the offer really doesnt look like one to sway jason away from the red sox. Do you really think the mets can steal jason for 5 mil because im sure you are in the minority that believes so. Now had the mets made an offer like real mentioned above 5/75 or something like that, there are OBVIOUSLY more thinks for jason to consider and possible entertain that offer but offering basically just 5 mil more…please, now you want to talk about nonsense and embarassing.
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
I guess what it comes down to is whether in your opinion $5 million is enough money to make someone change their mind about something, or is just generally a significant difference, or not.
Personally I think $5 million is a difference making amount, even for a multi-millionaire (though I can’t speak from that perspective. To the best of my knowledge none of us here can).
Even for a multi-millionaire, $5 million gets them a lavish 2nd home, or a small island in the south pacific, or 10 of their favorite luxury car and the garage to keep them in, with money left over for gas.
I would believe conspiracy and insult if the offer were literally exactly the same. That it was a $5 million increase makes me consider it to be at worst a legitimate increase and starting point for further negotiations.
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
lol for you or me or anyone really grave 5 mil would be enough to do just about anything, but in the sports world..its a whole other universe. Someone with jasons pedigree, 5 mill is pocket change…especially when you have two(known) big market clubs after you for your services. Jason knows theres more money with both teams and has admitted to wanting to stay in boston. Im sorry i just dont think 5mil is enough to sway Jason from the red sox. If there is no other offer made from here till the end of the year(highly unlikley) and neither of these clubs improves their offer, Jason will go back to boston. Now im not saying we need to drop 6/85 for bay because that stupid but imo make a more reasonable offer that would keep boston honest but would be reasonable for our club. A 5th year would set up a more interesting situation for jason. I know this isnt the end of these nego but imo 5 mil is not going to change his mind imo
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Well from my perspective you hit on it with your last sentence. “…this isn’t the end of these negotiations…”
I just can’t get upset about the Mets making an opening offer in a negotiation, especially when said opening offer is to date the largest offer the player has received.
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
im not upset at the offer, Im just bringing a different opinion to the table. I dont know why kingman is so much on the attack but its an opinion that is gaining steam. Just making an arguement…thats all.
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Uhhh, that’s not the topic of your post. You are endorsing the idea that it was a phony offer designed to be rejected, NOT that it is an offer to force the Red Sox to up theirs. If that is what you meant, you should have said it.
The offer surely was designed to either get Bay to sign, or to begin a bidding war with the Red Sox, or to force the Sox to finalize their situation with Bay, which would help define the market for Holliday, who very well might come to us once Bay signs with Boston, as Boras’ pleading in Indy might indicate.
None of this is in your post.
Your post is somewhat endorsing the idea that Omar and the Wilpons got together, and decided to offer Bay a non-offer, which they pray he won’t take, just to entice dumb people to start buying season tickets.
Re-read the last two sentences of your first paragraph.
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
I think it serves several purposes, forgive me for fully thinking this out after i had my morning cup of joe. The mets are just covering their bases in this offer. If he accepts, great…they get him at a reasonable price. If boston ups their hand, they will just probably play “the price is right” and go a little higher but the ball is in bostons court right now. Jason has said he wants to stay in boston and if no other offers appear from here until whenever jasons time line is, i dont think 5 mil is enough to sway him. There are not alot of other clubs for Matt holliday to go to with what he wants to get paid and teams in need so we have a controling say in what he gets paid. I just dont think this is strong enogh to pry jason here or maybe not even strong enough for boston to up their hand…why would they? They know Jason loves it there and if the only competitor for his services is offering 5 mil, why bother increasing the offer?
There are many angles to this but less knowledgable fans will bite on the fact that the mets made an offer to a guy of jasons caliber and that may persuade them to renew it in the event Jason does sign. Maybe not you or I but there are people that will.
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
Well, if that is what you meant, I apologize.
Personally, and yes Prismo, it is just my opinion
the idea that the offer was a deliberate and cynical non-offer designed to be rejected is just too silly to be discussed among reasonable adults.
And yes, I know that reasonable adults are CLEARLY not the NY Post’s main constituency.
Sorry Dirty, sometimes these anti-Met ideas get my goat.
I hope you have a wonderful day.
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
Oh i dont mind. Im just bringing an opinion to the table for people to discuss and making an argument for it. Obviously it was not a very strong one but it is an opinion and brings to light another pressure the mets are feeling. Im not lou dobbs here lol. I do feel it was an incredibly conservative offer with an open chance of it not accomplishing anything but driving jason back to boston.
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Well in my opinion you are absolutely right about how some fans will react to it. Just look at the sportspyder and you’ll see that many sportswriters have reacted similarly.
But just as it can be portrayed in some quarters that the Mets offer was a ploy, it can also be portrayed that these reporters need to sell papers and get page hits to their websites, and simply writing a dispassionate article about how the Mets have now involved themselves in negotiations with a LF doesn’t do that.
I am a cynical person, but my cynicism is aimed squarely at the reporters and editorialists who are sensationalizing the unsensational negotiation process, not at the Mets who are simply negotiating.
trs86
12/11/2009-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
It’s not about showing your hand on your first offer. It’s to let Bay and his agent know you are at the table.
trs86
12/11/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
I really can’t see the big deal. The Mets did what most teams or businesses would do here. They took the standing offer and added about 10%.
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
+ 50
prismo
12/11/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
Too legit…to legit to quit!
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
I can only say that if I were considering buying season tickets (which I’m not so to be fair this is completely hypothetical) I would NOT suddenly buy them because the Mets made an offer to a free agent. If they actually signed a free agent that might sway me to make the purchase, but just an offer, not going to sway me.
Also related, even signing Bay is not enough to make me rush to the ticket office. Yeah, he hits 30 HR every year. Woo! There are only a handful of players that I actually, in real life, go out and buy individual game tickets to see in person, Bay is not one of them. Most of them are pitchers (hint hint Mets).
metsfan4decades
12/11/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
I’m in the same category (live a tad bit too far for season tickets), but I can’t believe the theories out there that this is all designed to up ticket sales. Yes, the Wilpons are a business family but what increases tickets sales would be to put a quality, contending team out there. Hence….an offer to Bay. And IMO, Lackey…..
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
+ 5
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Let me ask you this 4d, do you think Jason would jump ship from the red sox to the Mets for 5 mil?
njstuckintx
12/11/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Do you think it will take a 5th year or, say, an additional 2 mil a year?
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
dont answer a question with a question…do you think he would jump ship for 5 mil?
njstuckintx
12/11/2009-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
No.
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
neither do i. I dont know what it will take but giving an extra year or an extra 2/3 mil per would make boston sweat a little more than just an extra 5 million. Why do i want them to sweat more? To make them up their offer to take them out of the holiday nego since they used up their cash for bay. Giving the mets just a stronger negotiation footing with holiday as the primary suiter sicne the yanks got granderson and dont really need matt, cards dont got the $$ for matt..who esle is in it then. Just the mets and scott will be dancing to our tune
trs86
12/11/2009-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
To me the offer is plenty enough to put pressure on the Sox. All Bay’s agent has to do is say look the Mets have offered 10% more and are mentioning the idea of an option year or a 5th year.
That mentioning the idea part added by the agent has no attachment at all. Bot the 10% and the other ploys always used by agents will put pressure on Bay and Boston to make a move.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know if I appreciate this strategy. The higher the price goes for Bay, the higher the price goes for Holliday.
If Boston wants to snooze and Bay wants to panic and sign with the Mets, then the Mets win.
Maybe the best thing to do is to tell Bay that the offer will not stand indefinitely.
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
See i dont think so wanny. Who are in the competition for a LF of their caliber that have a shot at them…not to many. Yanks are pretty much done with granderson. Its just really the redsox and Mets. You take one of them out of the equation and the other has very good footing for nego purposes. I see your point real and jasons agent has a big role in this now to convince boston that the mets are willing to go higher but i dont think boston will make a move until the mets make a move.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
Well, according to the “reports” (if you are inclined to believe such), the Angels, Mariners and Cards have also been connected to at least one of Holliday or Bay.
In generaly, however, I don’t see any benefit in forcing another team to up its offer for a player you are interested in yourself or will affect the market price of the player you do want.
If Holliday views himself as pricier than Bay, the more Bay is paid, the more you will then have to pay Holliday.
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
and i understand your logic but imo, matt can veiw himself as a 100 million dollar man…if there is nobody but the mets that are able to pay you even 25% of that, whats the point? If those other reports are true, then the angels are the only team that could afford him at a reasonable price but their focus if im not mistaken is halladay.
trs86
12/11/2009-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Maybe, so what’s the harm in offering? How do you know what it would take? It’s the beginning of a negotiation. Has Bay declined the offer yet? Lets deal in facts for a moment. Have the Mets made an offer? Was it more than the Sox? Has he declined it yet? Then you can move on to If Bay declines it will the Mets offer more? Will the Redsox up their offer…
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
$5 mil is not chump change.
If he’s going to the highest bidder, the highest bid will win.
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
maybe your right, this is his first major raise and big contract so he may go with the higher bidder but from what i surmise, he really liked it in boston and lets face it…they are in better shape than we are to win a championship.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
There’s no denying your valid points. And perhaps a Canadian like Bay is not a capitalist pig.
metsfan4decades
12/11/2009-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
No, I don’t Dirty.
If NY was his first choice, or he really wanted out of Boston, then yes.
But given the fact that he’s quoted as saying he’d like to stay in Boston, then I think our offer has to be a whole lot better than Boston’s to get him to jump ship.
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
OK, once again I come across as the obnoxious one, but this offer was most likely made for several reasons.
One that folks seem to be missing is this: Boras basically begged us to sign Holliday, as no one is biting on his ridiculous demands.
So, the Mets offer Bay an offer which is, if we understand the numbers correctly, about 10% higher than Boston’s. In the real world, outside of the Bronx, this is a noticeable increase.
So, the Mets possibly get Bay if maybe he wants to play here, OR, they force the Red Sox to up THEIR offer.
Hence, the market for the two left fielders out there is more reasonably established, AND with the Red Sox out of the picture, and the Yanks talking to Damon, the Mets are potentially in a VERY good position to get Holliday for a reasonable price.
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, there are many logical, business related reasons for such an offer as the Mets made to Bay yesterday. Unfortunately those reasons don’t sell newspapers or get web page hits. Also unfortunately, the Mets share a city with a baseball team that is absurdly out of whack financially with all other baseball teams.
In that context, what in Chicago or Los Angeles would be seen as a perfectly legitimate step in a negotiation process, in New York is universally condemned as an insulting ploy.
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
Thank you and have a great day!
CaseStreet
12/11/2009-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
I made a similar point yesterday that was lost in the Bay-Cameron discussion, being that as dumb as some make Omar to be, he made a strategically good move by making an offer on Bay after Boras tried to strong arm him into making an offer on holliday.
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
Totally agree.
trs86
12/11/2009-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Not even Sherman buys into the flat this is just a ploy idea:
“And I am sure if the Mets could get him for their initial offer – four years at more than $60 million, but less than $65 million – then they will go for it.”
Besides like most media guys he never takes a stand here either way from the beginning. All he is doing is using faulty logic to support an ar
argument for it being a farce. He never admits that he believes that is what it is.
“So was this merely a ploy to change the subject or was this a clear change of course this off-season?”
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
It’s the classic Rupert Murdoch strategy. You don’t report a fact, you ask a provocative question and don’t answer it or seek a legitimate answer to it.
prismo
12/11/2009-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
lol Sherman just finds it “interesting” or “curious”
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
I find it ridiculous that anyone would buy tickets based on an offer to a player.
Furthermore, Jason Bay is not exactly a household name even if he is a solid baseball player. He’s not likely to have a substantial effect on ticket sales even after he is signed.
whataputz
12/11/2009-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
I had a plan that resulted in my paying sometimes up to 25 dollars a game for some of the worst seats I’ve ever sat in in my life. Those same tickets I could have bought on stubhub for 4 dollars…please explain to me why would ever buy a plan again? Not to mention the so called weekend plan gives you a good 6 weekday games.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, forcing 5 weekday games on Saturday and Sunday plan buyers is utter BS.
trs86
12/11/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
+ab(xyz)!
whataputz
12/11/2009-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
If we just built a normal friggin stadium we wouldn’t be so caught up in signing a guy that can play in our gargantuan outfield for years to come, and we could just focus on signing the guy that will help this line-up the most.
prismo
12/11/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
It’s not THAT big…the size is definitely overstated.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
That makes sense if you buy the whole pulling the ball down the left field line bit.
I, for one, think they prefer Bay over Holliday for financial reasons. And maybe even to spite Boras for opening his big mouth.
Home runs or not, Holliday is the better hitter and would probably do just fine in the gaps of Citifield.
CaseStreet
12/11/2009-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
I guess you prefer seeing Damon turn into a HR threat or A-roid hit a HR off his fists. I like the park, it’s a real NL park not made for video game scores.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
I’ll be satisfied with either Bay or Holliday. But if Lackey signs for something close to what the Mets pay for their LFer (assuming it is one of the two big guys) then I won’t be happy.
I’m hoping the Mets have made this offer to Bay because neither Holliday nor Lackey have dropped from their $90-$100m demands.
I certainly like Bay at $65-$75 better than the others at $100.
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Just to make it clear…I DO NOT ENDORSE JOEL SHERMANS VIEW….
“It seems every off season is more difficult and challenging than the year before, yet Omar has managed to sign or trade for the player we needed and field a contending team every year (except 2009 of course). With this sort of pedigree, its really hard to believe the Mets offer to Jason bay was a ploy…”
This was just an opinion that was making some steam and just wanted to get peoples thoughts on the subject
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
You sir have succeeded, and before lunch!
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Lost in the “ploy” shuffle today is that according to Buster Olney, the Mets offer to Bengie Molina “contains a vesting option.” Unfortunately, he’s not more specific so I don’t know whether it’s 1 year plus vesting, or more years plus vesting.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
It’ll have to be a big vest with a reinforced zipper to make it around Bengie’s midsection.
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Perhaps a bright (blue and) orange life vest?
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
i hope is a 1yr vesting option
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
While on the subject of Molina, I posted the following from the NY Post in the previous Molina oriented thread (we were discussing yesterday Molina’s reputation for handling pitching staffs:
Ricciardi also raved about Molina defensively, praising him for his game-calling and receiving skills.
“He did a great job with our staff,†he said. “He takes pride in his catching.â€
METS BLOG
In Molina’s 2006 season with the Jays, Roy Halladay went 16-5 with a 3.19 ERA. Of course, that’s the planet’s best pitcher, but keep in mind that Ted Lilly also won 15 games (which was a career high at that point) and closer B.J. Ryan posted a sparkling 1.37 ERA and saved 38 games.
And the Jays’ team ERA that year was 4.37 — fifth-best in the AL. This season Molina caught just 23 percent of runners trying to steal, but in 2008 he stopped 35 percent and in 2007 he nabbed 30 percent. For his career, he’s at 32 percent.
Molina’s part of the celebrated Molina catching family, with one brother (Yadier) a star for the Cardinals and another (Jose) a world champion with the Yankees. Clubhouse-wise, the Mets would be getting what sounds like a strong addition. Said Ricciardi, “You won’t ask for a better guy.â€
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/amazin_make_plays_for_bay_and_molina_Np9eHFeUTYui32semyTlbJ#ixzz0ZOrmVOUr
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
As you have aptly pointed out before, none of us are particularly qualified to discuss how catchers handle a pitching staff, so we must rely on anecdotal evidence from others more likely to know.
Now we know that JP Ricciardi thinks Bengie is a good handler of pitchers and a good clubhouse guy. We can file that in with the pile of information we are gathering on Molina.
Personally, I wish I trusted JPs ability to evaluate talent more. No doubt he’s assembled a great deal of talent on his rosters over the years, but some of the decisions he’s made as far as how much and for how long to pay that talent make me question his eye somewhat, not to mention his failed hiring as manager of that guy who pretended to have served in Vietnam, or the volatile and combative John Gibbons. Perhaps JP admires liars and people who easily lose their tempers.
Having said that, I understand he is absolutely qualified to have and express and opinion about Molina. I’d ideally like to hear similar reports from different sources, but this is a step in the right direction.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
Not sure why anyone would lie about serving in Vietnam. Actual heroic Vietnam service didn’t even help Kerry or McCain get into the White House. Did he think Canadians would find something special about it?
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
I will try and find a link to a story about it. My memory suggests he used his “service” in a speech to fire up the team.
You know, something like “my buddies and I were in a firefight for hill 26 and Joey stood up and ran across the open field with his machine gun blazing, picked up Billy who was laying injured out in the open, and dragged him back into the fox hole. Now get out there and beat those Orioles!”
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
Here it is. Scroll down to “Vietnam War Stories Controversy”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Johnson_%28baseball%29
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
Hentgen must feel gypped.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
I hope Bruce Chen wasn’t pitching for the O’s that day. The players might have made a big mistake.
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
LMFAO!
LOL!
BYOB!
prismo
12/11/2009-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
Really, Jose Molina with his .560 OPS last season helped the Yankees win a championship? LOL
Just because a player’s on a winning team, doesn’t mean that player’s any good.
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
I completely agree, and there are also reports about how the SD pitchers really wanted Blanco back.
These are the kind of things that are not noticed in any of the newfangled stats rating catchers.
It is entirely possible that Molina and Blanco will bring out a lot more from all of our pitchers, even if they are fat and slow.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
The Royals have raided former and current Mets, according to MLBTR:
“According to a press release from the Royals, they’ve signed six players to minor league deals: pitchers Bruce Chen, Adam Bostick, Devon Lowery, and Francisco Rosario, as well as first baseman Ernesto Mejia and catcher Vance Wilson.”
I’m surprised the Mets allowed Bostick to walk freely after pitching so well in relief last year.
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Speaking of the Royals, the guy I wanted the Mets to take in the rule 5 draft was Royals minor league side armer Chris Hayes. I wanted the Mets to take him solely because he was a side armer.
Today I find out that he writes a blog in which he praises sabermetrics (among other topics) and that his nickname is “Disco.”
Now I’m really angry they didn’t pick him.
http://discohayes.mlblogs.com/
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
A very well written and intelligent blog with some good, though exteme, ideas. I bookmarked it because it was too much to read.
Though he seems a bit of an extremist insofar is innovation, I hope he gets a chance someday to manage (after having a nice major league playing career, of course).
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
I bookmarked it as well. His latest entry is so long I need to make sure I go to the bathroom first and have some snacks handy before I do more than just skim it. But no doubt a thoughtful guy.
trs86
12/11/2009-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
I guess they just did not like him because I could not understand why he was not called up.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Looks like his obstacle is that he’s a control pitcher which does not ordinarily make for an attractive reliever.
He wasn’t particularly good in his first crack at AAA either.
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
Bostick or Hayes? I think TRS was referring to Bostick.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Ha. I was talking about Hayes.
fongy2
12/11/2009-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
Good thread guys. I won’t waste anyones time with more Omar bashing
since everyone knows how I feel.
This also goes above his pay grade.
I won’t anger anyone one with my
“Happy second place finishers” comments about The Wilpons. Again,
you all know how I feel. I have never called The Wilpons cheap b/c they’re not. I also have always liked
Old Freddy and appreciate his attempts to con’t fielding a competetive team. I actually feel somewhat bad for them…And us.
We’re in a bad position here this off-season. The core of All-Star players we have should be right in the middle of their prime BUT all 5,
Johan,KRod,Beltran,Wright&Reyes will
all come to spring with questions most Superstars don’t have attached
to them in their primes.
The young talent,however much there
is also have questions,FMart’s health
and how close he really is.How good a
hitter can Murphy really be and is it
enough to make-up for his Defense?
Does Parnell just need more time in
the Back of the Pen to develop or even with that,will he ever?
What exactly is Niese? Is he a viable
4th/5th starter And can he stay healthy? Will Davis be any more than
LaRoche?…Or even that? Is Havens a
poor man’s Ty Wiggington?…Or just a
bust. Plus, it would seem everyone else isn’t less than 2/3 yrs away from even sniffing the Majors.
Then theres Thole.
We’re stuck with two contracts which can’t be moved in Ollie & Castillo,
which provides both the security in
their jobs BUT with questionable production AND heres that word again…health. So, trades are tough
unless we want to take back a knucklehead who’ll likely make things
in Flushing worse. Now add the fact
that even with 25/30 Million to spend
on FAs,the top guys available are good, maybe even very good BUT certainly not great. And b/c theres only three of them, theres more bidders than usual and frankly, to be
truthful about, most seem like more
desirable places to play. So like I said, I don’t envy The Wilpons/Omar
this off-season BUT having said all
that, the jive must stop!
If we’re in on Bay, then we need to be all in! Whatever the final offer is from the Sox or whom ever, it must
be matched. Otherwise, why jump in the deep end?
Unless, ofcourse it’s about imagine,
window dressing and trying to make
us fans believe that they are really
trying but the player(s) choose to
go somewhere else?
CaseStreet
12/11/2009-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
Hey fong,
I’d be happy if murph turned to be a LaRoche and Havens a Wiggington, etc
if these guys can give us league average it’ll make it that much easier to keep our 5 all-stars.
Yes, once in a while it’d be nice if some of one of our prospects turns into the next wright or Reyes, and hopefully some will, but I’d still be happy if the farm produced one or two average players each year.
fongy2
12/11/2009-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
Understood but if indeed they do turn into the type players
I mentioned,it likely
won’t be for another
couple yrs.Will Wright,Reyes&Beltran even be here then?
Others have mentioned here and its spot on
the supporting cast
isn’t real solid and
hasn’t been for a couple yrs now.
How does Omar fix that
w/o over paying for role players or trading decent prospects to get them?
CaseStreet
12/11/2009-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
I guess you do that by not trading your prospects unless it’s for a legit star, not losing your first or second round draft picks, trading away star players who are about to hit FA that you don’t plan on keeping (thanks delgado, at least we got something for Wagner).
Omar has done this in the past by bringing in Maine and Ollie, Pagan and frenchy, and delgado and livan (though some did cost prospects)
this is also why I have a problem with paying bay what he’s asking when IMO he’s not a Big Star like holliday or lackey
dirtysanchez
12/11/2009-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
fongy…paragraphs bro lol…
fongy2
12/11/2009-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
I know, homey. I read that back after I posted it and thought
Man! That was a ramble! LOL!
My mind’s still scrambled by what has
become of my Steelers
season after lastnight!
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
Was thinking of you buddy…that must have been a hard one to take…
fongy2
12/11/2009-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
Didn’t have much hope after the loss to
Oakland.LAstnight made it offical though
The team got old fast! It happens
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
At first I used to think that maybe he has a vertical monitor, but then I realized he’s a poet, and he’s sharing his poetry with us. Why his poems have more question marks in them than most poems is a different topic.
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
HAHA!!!
trs86
12/11/2009-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
I always assumed it was because his monitor is on a low resolution and he is used to a manual typewritter.
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
Someone set really
narrow margins on
that typewriter.
“Ding!” carriage
return.
I kid because
I care!
fongy2
12/11/2009-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
Friggin’ ball-busters!
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
I’m sorry. Thinking about things like your unique writing style or former major league managers who lied about military service helps take my mind off the Mets trying to confuse me with fake offers to free agents they don’t really want in an effort to make me buy tickets I can’t afford.
Also helps take my mind off things like Jeff Francoeur’s hand injury being more serious than first thought.
fongy2
12/11/2009-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
No need for “sorry”.
Didn’t say you were wrong or I was hurt.
Sometimes it seems like I’m sitting on
my stoop on 44th st.
b/t 9th&10th in 1979
surrounded by friends
breakin’ balls.
wannybackstra
12/11/2009-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
I’m glad we are all here to make your balls feel at home.
GravediggerHebner
12/11/2009-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
Cool, that’s what this is supposed to be like.
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, why don’t you go home and get your f***in shinebox!
fongy2
12/11/2009-2:50pm at 2:50 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!
Nice.
oleosmirf
12/11/2009-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
i think the Mets are pretty much guaranteed to sign Bay or Holliday. Are they legit interested in Bay? I dont know but as long as they sign either or I dont really care.
I just hope that the mets stay away from offering Wolf, Piniero, Marquis multi-year contracts b/c that is a disaster waiting to happen
Kingman 26
12/11/2009-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
AGREED 100%!!