As the internet reaches maturity, it does seem as though it has had a truly unexpected effect—there are now literally tens of thousands of people—if not more—who are more qualified to run baseball teams than the executives who actually run them.
The Mets cannot make a proposal or have a public thought on a player without the Nattering Nabobs of Negativity rearing their heads in disapproval. Everyone Omar considers, or makes an offer to, is greeted by the Cassandra Chorus warming up their pipes for another song of lamentations.
So many people seem to instantly focus only on a player’s negatives.
The Jason Bay situation is especially illuminating. For the last two years, Met fans have seemingly been unified in their opinion that the team needs another big bat. Well, there is Jason Bay. 31 years old, and has had fine, if not Pujolsian, seasons in the hitters’ park of Fenway, and the pitchers’ park of Pittsburgh. Unlike Holliday, whose stats are largely—if not mostly—a product of the aberrational Coors Field, Bay hits lefties and righties, hits at home and away, and hits all season long. But suddenly this is all dwarfed by the internet experts and their definitive defensive stats.
Bay is not Beltran in the outfield, and never will be. But he has played 199 games in left at Fenway—not exactly the easiest outfield spot to play in baseball—and has made one error, and had 20 assists. No, this does not take into consideration his range, and how many balls fall in front of him or go over his head. But with one error and 20 assists in 1 1/3 seasons, can he really be this bad? Does this show a precipitous decline? If he will be playing in an outfield otherwise manned by Beltran and Francoeur, would not his offense more than compensate for his defensive liabilities? Might we not lead the league in outfield assists?
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Omar’s offer to Bay was questioned by a leader of the anti-Met faction in a mainstream “newspaper†called the New York Post. This writer suggested that the offer to Bay—a 4 year deal 10% higher than the Red Sox offer—was a non-offer; i.e., an offer designed to be refused by Bay, and an offer which was to serve the purpose of making fans think that the Mets are going after big game, when they are not.
This mentality suggests that the Wilpons, or Omar on his own, offered Bay a nice premium over the previous high offer (10% more is actually a pretty significant amount, even when we are talking deals in the tens of millions), betting he would turn it down. That’s a big bet.
One of everyone’s favorite people on here suggested that this is analogous to the situations with ARod and Vlad Guerrero. I would have to very respectfully disagree with my esteemed Blues Brother Rusty on this issue. In the intervening years from then until now, ARod has shown himself to be a first ballot HOFer, but also to be a dishonest, insincere, non-leader, poor teammate, drug user, and someone who openly cheats on his wife and does who knows what else. Not wanting to give this apparently character-free man the richest deal in the history of the sport does not seem like a bad choice, however disingenuously it may have been handled by Met brass at the time.
The Guerrero matter was totally different, and it did indeed seem as though the team used somewhat bogus excuses regarding Vlad’s back issues in order to justify not signing him.
Omar Minaya had less than nothing to do with either of these situations, and the key point here is that serious offers were not made—the team gave excuses as to why they did not make serious offers. There were not offers given to ARod and Vlad of 10% more than their other options. How can this be viewed the same way as the Bay situation?
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When we move to the catcher position, the last couple of weeks have seen a constant, high-pitched whine from the Met Peanut Gallery.
Henry Blanco has been a very widely regarded catcher when it comes to defense, pitch-calling, and overall strategy. Greg Maddux greatly preferred him, Johan liked him in MN, and apparently the pitching staff in San Diego was very sorry to see him go. Isn’t signing a player like this precisely what a big-market team should do when a smaller-market team lets him go over a million bucks?
Bengie Molina is aging and has a lot of mileage on him, no doubt about that. But he has also been a tremendously respected Gold Glove catcher, who has won a ring, seen several postseasons, still cranks out plenty of HR and 2B for a catcher, and has caught really good pitchers all over the map. He apparently is not being re-signed as the Giants have a top prospect named Buster Posey ready to take over behind the plate; it is not because Molina is not valued in the Bay Area. A quick look around the internet shows Giant writers and fans calling Molina clutch, a leader, tough, a catcher who frames pitches fantastically, etc.
Isn’t this the type of player that we have been moaning for for years? A veteran leader, a winner, a tough guy, and a clubhouse presence?
But no, he is too fat, too slow, and will clog up the bases batting seventh or eighth.
To this space, a catching platoon of Molina and Blanco has the potential to greatly increase the effectiveness of our trio of hugely talented headcase pitchers, Pelf, Ollie, and Maine. Perhaps the new backstops will prod and challenge these guys as the ineffectual Schneider never did. Schneider came with a reputation as a defensive whiz, but what great pitchers did he ever catch? When will he play his first postseason game? When one looks at HR, RBI, and K, Molina is also in a different league than Schneider.
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Overall, it is becoming tiresome to some fans to try to patiently and optimistically watch the offseason unfold. It is the second week of December, Holliday, Lackey, and Bay remain unsigned, Halladay remains untraded, and many Met fans have given up already.
Bay is the worst outfielder since Timmy Lupus. Molina is slower and fatter than Mike Engleberg. And Councilman Whitewood surely would be a better executive than Omar can ever be.
Despite his alcoholism, Morris Buttermaker was indeed a far superior manager to Jerry Manuel; we can all definitely agree on that.
There is in fact much reason to believe that the Bay offer is for real, and actually might be a much better bet than signing Holliday for more years and tens of millions more dollars. Regardless of the drivel spewed by his comedian of an agent, at this point Matt Holliday is, other than one good 63-game stretch in St. Louis, a slightly better version of Dante Bichette. Go and look up their numbers and splits before disagreeing. You might be surprised. There is little in Holliday’s career to show that he will be the same performer playing 81 games a year at Citi that he was playing 81 games a year at Coors. His splits have greatly improved over the last five years, which does show that he will probably ultimately be a much better player than Bichette once all is said and done, but they remain the stats of a very good player whose time in Coors made him look like a great one. There is nothing like this in Jason Bay’s history.
A catching tandem of Molina and Blanco could very well greatly improve the situation behind the plate in many ways. Improvements in overall defense, pitch selection, pitch economy, and the intangible of leadership might come with these two men.
This space respectfully submits that it may be time for all of us to stop pretending that we have better solutions than Omar does. Omar took over a team in the doldrums, and very quickly returned it to relevance and to the postseason. We desperately need to see the postseason again in 2010, and obtaining Bay and Molina, while we wait for Omar to improve the starting rotation, could very well be outstanding first moves in this effort.
10 comments
rustyjr
12/13/2009-3:53pm at 3:53 pm (UTC -4)
great post kong – I admit i can be a naboob lol but i am trying my best to stay positive in regards of either landin either bay or lackey i just have a strange feeling that the mets are going to do the bait and switch like they pulled after the 2000 season ended – hope i am wrong
CaseStreet
12/13/2009-5:00pm at 5:00 pm (UTC -4)
hey kingman, I was anxiously awaiting for Kingman’s corner. I was not disappointed.
We agree on Blanco and Molina.
If Bay becomes a Met I’ll root my heart out for him, but I’d much rather sign Cameron and LaRoche for less years and money than Bay is asking for. Or bring in Hart, DeJesus, or one of the many non-tenders to compete with Pagan. Maybe Crawford will be available in the summer. IMO, Bay isn’t deserving of $65/4 or $75/5 yrs.
We can all agree that Jerry sucks and hope that Omar gets the job done.
Kingman 26
12/13/2009-5:24pm at 5:24 pm (UTC -4)
Thx Case….always appreciate your feedback most sincerely….
And if we spend a ton on starting pitching, I would be happy with Hart, and I would be very happy with Cameron. I was among the first on here to call for him weeks ago, and know you wholeheartedly agree…
CaseStreet
12/13/2009-7:01pm at 7:01 pm (UTC -4)
I must confess that my bias is toward improving the team’s defense and pitching, as noted in my “Mets Need: Defense!” and “Mets Need: Pitching!” posts. So when we haven’t yet heard of the team trying to address these issues, I’ve become a bit bothered with the process.
GravediggerHebner
12/13/2009-5:08pm at 5:08 pm (UTC -4)
The Kingman that I have come to know and love first at “Mattsblog” and later as my colleague here, is a person who is not a fence sitter, who has strong opinions, and is not shy about sharing them. I would say he is even less shy about sharing them rather pointedly in the comments section than in his more even-tempered weekly opinion pieces. I also know he is not a hypocrite, and therefore welcomes the opinions of others as freely as he dispenses his own.
So I find it odd that he would summarize by suggesting that we all stop pretending we have better solutions than Omar. Without people feeling they have different, possibly better, solutions than the people who run their favorite baseball teams there would be no need for this Met-related blog and many others. The call to suspend dissenting opinions or criticisms is a tad Khrushchevian for my taste.
If I am not allowed to have, let alone express, a belief about a particular ballplayer or personnel move that might run contrary to Omar Minaya’s belief, or my colleague Kingman’s belief, I have inadvertently left the land of the free and the home of the brave.
Jason Bay is neither the best nor worst defensive outfielder to ever play major league baseball. He is by many standards a quality, well rounded offensive performer, and thus there is little debate about that. With the exception of designated hitters, baseball players play both ways and therefore both their offense and defense should be subject to scrutiny.
There are both some time honored and some newfangled ways to draw conclusions about any player’s defensive abilities. I am aware Bay has a noteworthy number of assists in his time as a Red Sock but I believe it’s open to debate whether he has accrued those because he is a truly positive defender or because he stands 270 feet away from the batter with a large Green Monster behind him during his home games. None of the ways to quantify defense are perfect or foolproof and all of them are unfortunately subjective, thus there is room for debate which should not be stifled simply because one finds it tiresome or contrary.
Bengie Molina is neither the best nor worst defensive catcher to ever play major league baseball. He is by many standards a one-dimensional offensive player in that he hits more home runs than the average catcher but provides little else in the batters box that makes him stand out from the group. He is also by many standards a fat man, which renders him quite slow, limiting his offensive contributions, and 35 year old fat men that squat for a living should not be relieved of scrutiny of their ability to move or to stand up when necessary, whether that scrutiny come from amateurs or professionals.
Defensively, much of what he may or may not bring to a baseball team is not quantifiable in any widely used or respected way. For example, does he allow so many stolen bases because he is a poor catcher or because his pitchers hold runners poorly? I don’t know, let me smash this beer bottle on the bar and wave the jagged remains of it wildly at your neck while we discuss it. Opponents stolen bases are just one of many aspects of catchers defense that is open to debate, thus Molina’s defense should be open to debate and difference of opinion.
In a perfect world, I am pretty happy with Jason Bay’s all around game but I wish I had more evidence to support that he both is and will continue to be a ‘good enough’ defensive player. Are rumblings about his knees or shoulders actual concerns or negotiation tactics? I don’t know, and neither does almost anyone else. I would welcome him as a Met and keep his perceived defensive shortcomings in the back of my mind while I enjoyed the opportunity to watch him play on a daily basis and better hone my understanding of what he has to offer.
In a perfect world, I know that Bengie Molina is an improvement over anyone the Mets used at the catcher position last year. I wish he weren’t fat and in his mid-30s, and I wish he walked more often, and I would prefer if someone else were the Mets catcher in 2010 and beyond, but I am open minded enough to accept him as a Met and, like with Bay, take advantage of the opportunity to watch him regularly to draw more firm conclusions about his abilities either way.
I respect my colleague Kingman and his opinions, and I both hope and pray that he continues to offer them frequently and as strongly as ever before. I hope he understands that I and others will continue to offer our opinions as well, whether we agree with him or Omar Minaya, or not. Otherwise the comment section would be a lot smaller, and essentially unnecessary, because all it would have in it would be a handful of affirmations.
I realize my comment here is quite long, but I think it’s more useful and a more truthful representation of my opinion than:
“I agree.”
Kingman 26
12/13/2009-5:22pm at 5:22 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, well I certainly am honored that you would take so very much time to respond…I take that as a serious compliment. I am on my way out in the snowy wasteland here in upstate NY, but felt that I must quickly respond.
Perhaps my last paragraph did not accurately represent what I was trying to say. While I am no bleeding heart liberal, I am one who most deeply believes in freedom of speech and expression.
I guess I have made the mistake of spending too much time at Mattsblog, the Star Ledger, Mets.com, MLBTR, etc recently, and it is to those places where my venom was directed.
I do think that every player the team considers is immediately greeted by some sort of loud apparaisal of the player’s negatives. No player is perfect, that is for sure. Halladay is aging, Lackey has had arm trouble, Molina is slow and chubby and declining, Bay is not a great fielder, Cameron Ks too much, Holliday is a Coors product, etc etc etc.
I welcome everyone’s opinion, and of course I also welcome my opinions in response.
I did not mean we should not offer ideas; after all, that is why we are here to a large extent.
For me, the negativity sometimes becomes exasperating and infuriating….sometimes I feel as though reading comments at Mattsblog, the Ledger, etc, is the only time I really expose myself to nonsense and silliness and serious negativity.
And believe me, being Khrushchevian–however preferable to being Stalinian–is the furthest from where I want to be!
Grave, thanks for taking the time to write this. And I appreciate your noticing that my Opinion posts are less obnoxious than my responses in the comment section…I do try very hard to create some semblance of professionalism….
Thanks again!
gipperpdx
12/13/2009-5:27pm at 5:27 pm (UTC -4)
Kingman,
Well said, on almost all points. My concern is the talk (and it IS just talk) that if we get Bay and Bengie, that is it. No big FA number 2 pitcher like Lackey to help what i see as needd number 1: pitching!
Also, after the crushing disappointments of the last few seasons, a bit of irrational negativity on the part of Mets fans is….understandable.
trs86
12/13/2009-8:02pm at 8:02 pm (UTC -4)
After hearing the Mets have made an offer to Lackey and they they have made an offer to Bay, have the METS said they don’t intend on getting both? Only the media speculates that they won’t get both because they are broke. However, the Mets have said all along that they have money to spend if it makes sense for them and improves them longterm.
stickguy
12/14/2009-12:30am at 12:30 am (UTC -4)
wow, just like the good old days. I used a naughty word, and my post was delivered to “awaiting moderation” limbo!
well, there are 2 kinds of negativity floating around. the detail of picking on the flaws of some players (like Molina), but hey, every player has some drawbacks. especially in this FA market. But, that seems to be human nature (or at least met fan nature!) We are always hardest on our own.
what bugs me more is the people that are so negative about the team overall. They just seem miserable, and dang if I know why some even claim to be fans at all.
this IMO manifests itself in the idea that they “have†to get one of 2 (maybe 3) players, or the year is a guaranteed failure, no hope, awful owners, etc. So what if Holliday and lackey are, by default (lack of competition) the “best†FAs this year? If they can’t be signed by a prudent contract for what they bring to the team, let them go.
contrary to what some seem to believe, the mets already have a large amount of talent, and there are tons of options for adding more, even without those particular FAs.
I prefer to wait and see what the team actually is before going nuts critisizing, and also will give the benefit of the doubt (hope for the best?) with whatever team they put on the field.
of course, I still plan to wail and moan if they sign players I don’t like!
CaseStreet
12/14/2009-1:06am at 1:06 am (UTC -4)
sorry, dumb filters.
You can say ass all day long.