Dec 14
Fox’s Ken Rosenthal, according to MLBTR, tweets that Mike Cameron has signed a 2-year, 15.5 million deal to play LF; as of now, there is no word as to whether Sox fans considered it a lowball non-offer.
However, for those of us not consumed by grief and silliness, this further shrinks the options for Jason Bay and Matt Holliday, one of whom appears destined for LF in Citi next year.
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37 comments
GravediggerHebner
12/14/2009-9:27pm at 9:27 pm (UTC -4)
I said this in an earlier thread but it fits here so I repeat myself.
The Red Sox are assembling my dream free agent team. I wanted Lackey and Cameron to be the Mets # 2 SP and starting LF. I must say it makes me feel pretty good about my initial choices when an organization as sound and well respected as the Red Sox go with the guys I wanted. Only time will tell if it works.
Kingman 26
12/14/2009-9:30pm at 9:30 pm (UTC -4)
I think me, you, and Case all wanted Cameron and Lackey.
Oh well, now the Sox and the Mariners might both beat the Evil Empire next year.
GravediggerHebner
12/14/2009-9:35pm at 9:35 pm (UTC -4)
Excellent point, it just doesn’t make me feel as smug if I say “we” wanted him.
stickguy
12/14/2009-9:34pm at 9:34 pm (UTC -4)
I know we here tend to fixate on the Mets (duh!), but it seems that only about 6 teams have really done anything notable. So the Mets are far from alone with slow playing the off season.
I think the Red Sox though may be gearing up for that 1 final huge deal for A Gon (bye bye Clay!)
dirtysanchez
12/14/2009-9:35pm at 9:35 pm (UTC -4)
Yeap…read about a rival GM speculation that with lackey, they would be inclined to get Agonz.
GravediggerHebner
12/14/2009-9:44pm at 9:44 pm (UTC -4)
You’re absolutely right and are making an excellent point, but the problem is two of the teams that ARE active are the hated crosstown rival Yankees and the hated division rival Phillies.
Of all the teams that had a 2009 payroll of $110 million or more,
Yankees
Mets
Cubs
Red Sox
Tigers
Angels
Phillies
a few of them stand out as rather inactive and 4 of them are rocking the baseball world.
trs86
12/14/2009-9:45pm at 9:45 pm (UTC -4)
I guess I am just not as panic oriented as a lot of others but I don’t suddenly see it as doomsday because the Phillies got Halladay for Lee and Lackey and Cameron were signed.
I said at the beginning of the off-season there were 101 ways we could be competitive and there are still about 98.
GravediggerHebner
12/14/2009-9:55pm at 9:55 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t doubt that these 98 ways exist, just Omar’s ability to identify them and put them into action.
Now that the one thing he does well, identify and either sign or trade for, then sign, star players is basically eliminated I have little faith he’s going to re-invent himself.
I don’t go out of my way to malign Omar as I hope you know, but after the events of today, I have more faith that YOU could make the Mets competitive than I do in him.
One thing I recognize though is, the off season isn’t over yet, it isn’t even winter yet, so until pitchers and catchers report to PSL I’m going to give Omar the opportunity to prove me wrong about himself.
trs86
12/14/2009-10:03pm at 10:03 pm (UTC -4)
I do know that this is the same Omar that brought in the good versions of Maine and Oliver Perez as well as the Omar that brought in Johan, Delgado and Loduca for basically nothing.
GravediggerHebner
12/14/2009-10:16pm at 10:16 pm (UTC -4)
I think I covered Johan when I said “trade for, then sign, stars.”
I cited LoDuca yesterday as the one example of what I think Omar needs to do now (walk away from free agent catchers and trade for one).
So I’ll give you Delgado, and LoDuca. 2 in 5 years. Hopefully there is a team out there tearing itself apart and looking to sell dollars for nickels.
But Maine’s 1 1/2 useful seasons out of 4 and Perez’ 1 useful season + 1 good playoff start out of 3 1/2 seasons doesn’t exactly make me excited for Omar to do more things like acquiring them.
trs86
12/14/2009-10:20pm at 10:20 pm (UTC -4)
Why not those guys were huge for us in 2007. No they were not longterm answers but this off-season what is wrong with getting some of those types to patch the holes? What did we give up for them in the longrun? You can’t hold what Omar did with Perez against the acquiring of Perez. That 2007 with both Maine and Perez pitching like #3′s was something the Mets had to have that year to be competitive.
GravediggerHebner
12/14/2009-10:25pm at 10:25 pm (UTC -4)
I would like him to do better than trade for 2 young pitchers that give him 1 good year each out of the next 4 years.
trs86
12/14/2009-10:30pm at 10:30 pm (UTC -4)
If Omar can trade for 2 young pitchers and give nothing in return and the only thing they give us is a good 2010 I will be happy. If Omar could go out and get me 2 pitchers that put up those #’s for 2010 the same way that Perez and Maine did for us in 2007 we would have a very solid staff and would have given up 0 prospects.
wannybackstra
12/14/2009-10:34pm at 10:34 pm (UTC -4)
Xavier Nady probably qualifies as more than nothing.
trs86
12/14/2009-10:39pm at 10:39 pm (UTC -4)
You are right, he is a platoon guy who is a low .800′s OPS guy.
Here is what I said for Perez and Maine:
“What did we give up for them in the longrun?”
“If Omar could go out and get me 2 pitchers that put up those #’s for 2010 the same way that Perez and Maine did for us in 2007 we would have a very solid staff and would have given up 0 prospects”
I think I have implied that they gave up no prospects. I for one was not upset they gave up Nady either.
GravediggerHebner
12/14/2009-10:39pm at 10:39 pm (UTC -4)
That’s a lot of ifs.
Like you said, it’s one of the 101, whoops, 98 ways.
I’m not saying it can’t happen, and I certainly wouldn’t complain if it did, but I would hope Omar will be spending the next 6 weeks or so doing better than getting two young pitchers, one a virtual unknown who goes on to give the team 1 good year out of 4, the other a train wreck needing a change of scenery, who gives them 1 good year out of 3 1/2.
As I said above, I’m not panicking, I’m not killing Omar.
Message to Omar: I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt, you still have time, show me watcha got.
trs86
12/14/2009-10:42pm at 10:42 pm (UTC -4)
I hope he does get proven guys too Grave. I just would rather him go that route than to end up overpaying Marquis and Pineiro.
trs86
12/14/2009-9:50pm at 9:50 pm (UTC -4)
Also we need to wait and see what the hell this Phillies trade even turns in to. “J.A. Happ and Joe Blanton took physicals and could be a part of the deal, writes Rob Maaddi of the Associated Press. Domonic Brown also took a physical today, who is said to be coveted by the Jays.”
Then it’s:
“Drabek and “other top [Phillies] prospects” will be involved in the deal, according to Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com (via Twitter). According to Salisbury, Brown will remain with the club.”
That’s a big swing.
Is it Halladay, Hamels, Blanton?
Halladay, Hamels, Happ?
Halladay, Lee, Hamels?
trs86
12/14/2009-9:50pm at 9:50 pm (UTC -4)
I threw that last one in there to get you to realize that it could be worse.
trs86
12/14/2009-9:53pm at 9:53 pm (UTC -4)
“like Matt said earlier i’m getting real worried the Mets are now going to do something foolish like overpaying Bay and locking themselves into another bad contract just for the sake of making a big deal”
Stop panicking. Seriously, the world has not came to an end in Mid-December. There are plenty of things we can do.
dirtysanchez
12/14/2009-10:01pm at 10:01 pm (UTC -4)
nobody disputes that real, what people have a concern about is omars ability to logically figure them out. There is no doubt that the Mets are under pressure to DO something after 2009, probably not by us but other factors. After missing the playoffs 2 times on the last day and finishing with only 70 something wins in the inaugural year of citifield, you cant tell me they are not under the gun to field a competitive team.
trs86
12/14/2009-10:05pm at 10:05 pm (UTC -4)
Sure they are and they don’t have to have superstars to field a competitive team. Even if you think the Phillies improved with that trade (I am waiting to see who is in it) who else in the NL has gotten CLEARLY better?
dirtysanchez
12/14/2009-10:15pm at 10:15 pm (UTC -4)
maybe they have not gotten “clearly” better but each have advantages over us. Either the braves/marlins with that rotation or philly with a good combo of both offense and defense. As it stands, we cant compete with them. I hope Omar has some shrewd moves up his sleeve because we are going to need them. Dont know if we can handle another luis castillo/oliver perez deal
trs86
12/14/2009-10:17pm at 10:17 pm (UTC -4)
As it stands the Marlins and Braves are no better than they were last year. As it stands the bad team we had last year was very competitive until the injuries and was in a great position in June and in it in early July. As it stands it is December.
wannybackstra
12/14/2009-10:22pm at 10:22 pm (UTC -4)
Braves could be very much better with full seasons from Hanson and Hudson and maybe Jason Heyward.
trs86
12/14/2009-10:28pm at 10:28 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, if Hudson is healthy and Heyward turns out to be the real thing and ready to really play (for that matter if they even allow him to). But my point is have they made any moves to make them significantly better. We could play the if games by saying that Pelfrey was just the 2nd year slump and Murphy will play like the 2nd half and Fmart and Davis…. Obviously ours are more of a stretch. Still point remains that these other teams in the NL are not going out and really making a mark.
wannybackstra
12/14/2009-10:32pm at 10:32 pm (UTC -4)
Whether they have made moves is not the point (and I think signing Hudson, Saito and Wagner and trading Soriano for another reliever all qualify as moves). The point is that they have a good chance to be better and the Mets need to get better too.
And having Hanson all year might not be a small difference.
trs86
12/14/2009-10:34pm at 10:34 pm (UTC -4)
who else in the NL has gotten CLEARLY better?
You say the Braves have gotten CLEARLY better and I disagree. Next point.
wannybackstra
12/14/2009-10:37pm at 10:37 pm (UTC -4)
I’m sorry if my idea of how the Braves got better doesn’t conform to your criteria (not to mention the addition of the CLEARLY qualifier).
My next point is that I will go back to only engaging in conversations with others here.
trs86
12/14/2009-10:40pm at 10:40 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, Wanny. I just did not want to argue that point because neither of us can prove our points. You say they have gotten better and I say we will have to wait and see if those players improve or are healthy before we can say they have improved. What is the big deal there? Who is right there and who is wrong?
trs86
12/14/2009-10:13pm at 10:13 pm (UTC -4)
As I said I just don’t get the need for Mets fans to panic and start jumping off cliffs and reading their own obituaries because we did not get THIS player. If the demand for Lackey ends up being Lee and prospects? How were we to match that? If Lackey got an offer of 5/85 from the Sox should we have said 5/90 and have people call us out for lowballing? I guess we should have in turn offered him 6/100+ just because we need a #2 next year? Again, I am very calm about these things and look forward to seeing what the Mets do because we all know Omar will get either Bay or Holliday now and most likely still get 2 pitchers or maybe a trade we were not expecting.
CaseStreet
12/14/2009-10:35pm at 10:35 pm (UTC -4)
FML
glad to know the red sox are doing it the right way. Soon they’ll sign beltre and trade for Gonzalez.
I wouldve gladly acepted the cammy and lackey deals. Would it have cost Omar more? Idk
yanks gonna get holiday and bay will go to the west coast.
What I don’t like most is Omar will end up trading our few prospects for some marginal players. No one is about to trade us a #2 or a ofer without question marks unless we take on some huge contract or give up our top talent
trs86
12/14/2009-10:41pm at 10:41 pm (UTC -4)
That certainly would be a first that Omar wanted a big guy and did not get one.
CaseStreet
12/15/2009-12:12am at 12:12 am (UTC -4)
well, it’s true.
The Yanks could just “swoop” in and help out their buddy Boras.
The Angels were in on both Lackey and Halladay, and are linked to Bay as are the Mariners.
Just because Omar wants the “big guy” doesn’t mean he will get one this time. And I hope he doesn’t overpay for one of them.
Doesn’t matter to me though. I never thought the Mets needed a big bat. I always wanted to improve the defense and pitching.
Mr North Jersey
12/14/2009-11:43pm at 11:43 pm (UTC -4)
Well 1st let me see you guys never drop the ball when engaging in some great debates and today’s events have pretty much shown why reading this blog is a must for any Mets fan.
Forgive me it’s been a while since I posted a comment so a may stumble here and there along the way.
As usual Dirty’s quote “what people have a concern about is Omar’s ability to logically figure them out.” “them” being Omar’s ability to figure out other things the Mets can do to improve this club. Is dead on the money.
Especially as Grave put it the one thing Omar did well “identify and either sign or trade for, then sign, star players” is possibly no longer much of an option.
You see to me it’s simple eliminate as many question marks as possible. Would Lackey or Halladay greatly improve our team? Uh, yes.
Omar by not getting either of them has increased the odds of getting a pitcher that could meet the standards that bringing in a Lackey or Halladay could of given us.
The fact that the Phillies possibly got Halladay even though they may have given up Lee is not why I think the Phillies did a good job. It is the fact that the Phillies kept the Mets from possibly getting Halladay to begin with.
This notion that the Mets could not get Halladay because he would not waive his no trade to come here or that Toronto was dead set on Reyes being included all may be true but if it is that means that for all the talk Omar has regarding the Mets having solid prospects teams want in truth we really don’t because we had nothing Toronto wanted that would not include Reyes.
As far as Halladay not waiving his no trade clause I’m sure money talks and throw enough zeroes to the end of a number and Halladay would be singing the praises of how great it is to come to NY.
Oh and TRS I love you dude but I would not underestimate the Braves off season moves. Opening day is far away and a lot can happen between now and then but as things stand today the braves have just as good a chance to bury us as the Phillies have. “Clearly better” is not what you should be concerned with it is the fact that they have made strides to get better while as of this moment the Mets are standing pat.
Maybe Halladay will be a bust maybe Lackey will not win 10 games but if so that would be the exception rather than the rule. I mean if anyone feels that will happen I guess they also expect Santana never to win 18 games again.
It was good to post again I sorely miss it and I apologize for being but a ghost but life can throw a wrench in things and really shake things up and well without getting into specifics I had a a wrench screwdriver and a entire toolbox thrown in my shyt.
But I still read at least once a day and you guys are awesome as usual.
Happy Holidays everyone
Kingman 26
12/15/2009-12:11am at 12:11 am (UTC -4)
Happy Holidays to you too Mr North; glad to see you!
CaseStreet
12/15/2009-12:20am at 12:20 am (UTC -4)
Same to you Mr North! I think we all can’t wait to be done with 09.