As the list of non-tenders was finalized over the weekend I was able to do a little reading on various sites and came across this common misconception.
“The Mets should get Atkins, Capps, Wang.”
Nothing is mentioned on salary or years. It’s like these players were left out on the curb after a yard sell and are free for the taking. In a FA pool that lacks star power and even depth some of these guys will command much more than we expect. This is not a waiver where we can pick up the guy for league minimum or even last year’s salary. One example in the past that sticks out is Ty Wiggington. As much as I like Wiggy and would not mind seeing him play for the Mets next year, he is a classic example of how a player can benefit from being non-tendered and end up with a multi-year deal. After being non-tendered by the Astros last off-season Wiggington signed a 2 year 6 million dollar contract with the O’s. I am sure there are other situations very similar to this. Perhaps Redding comes to mind. Redding was paid 1 million for his 2008 season with the Nats and was released then signed by the Mets for 2.25 million.
So what am I saying here? I am not saying stay away from these guys. I am saying, however, that most of these guys have baggage and any worth signing are going to be perused by other teams and could cost real cash that may be needed in other places. Also lets not play Monday morning QB and complain that Omar wasted money on a guy like Redding when in fact many were screaming for him to sign non-tendered players and take a risk.
So in fun here is that list again. Have fun and tell us who the Mets should sign. Just keep in mind this is a used car lot and not a junk yard.
| Alfredo Amezaga |
| Brian Anderson |
| Brian Bass |
| Chien Ming Wang |
| Clay Condrey |
| Cory Sullivan |
| DJ Carrasco |
| Dustin Moseley |
| Gabe Gross |
| Garrett Atkins |
| Jack Cust |
| Jackson Quezada |
| Jeremy Reed |
| Jonny Gomes |
| Jose Arrendondo |
| Jose Veras |
| Josh Anderson |
| Josh Whitesell |
| Kelley Johnson |
| Lance Broadway |
| Mark Worrell |
| Matt Brown |
| Matt Capps |
| Mike Defelice |
| Mike MacDougal |
| Mike Rivera |
| Neal Cotts |
| Phil Dumatrait |
| Ryan Church |
| Ryan Garko |
| Ryan Landerhans |
| Seth McClung |
| Shawn Riggans |
| Tim Redding |
48 comments
prismo
12/14/2009-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
Luckily the Mets are the only team allowed to sign non-tendered free agents. All we have to do is make a wish list, and Santa will deliver everyone we ask for to the Mets roster!
It’s always funny when people say “sign Atkins, Capps, and Wang!” (or any other combination of free agents)…when there are 29 other teams who are trying to bolster their teams and are looking at the same players.
stickguy
12/14/2009-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
Did thi send up being much larger than the pool last year? I know we kept hearing about the tidal wave coming, but I never recall hearing if it actually arrived.
If it is a large group, at least it should help suppress prices, but like TRS said, the top guys will get paid. It’s the lower tier guys that are going to get the shaft!
Not much sticks out to me. Garko maybe for a position player. Best bet IMO is to try and find a solid late innings BP guy out of here. Carrasco, Capps maybe?
The rest look like bench guys mostly, or just poor fits. KJ is intriquing though, if they can figure out a way to juggle the bench. POssible replacement, or at least platoon help, for Luis? Assuming, of course, KJ is over the wrist injury and has a rebound year.
trs86
12/14/2009-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
But he is so bad defensively.
trs86
12/14/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
With that in mind, some names I am looking at:
Clay Condrey: Had his best season last year with better numbers across the board. However, it does seem interesting that the Phillies in need of BP help would let this guy go.
Cory Sullivan: Did pretty well in my opinion last year in the backup role. .250 .338 .382 .720 is certainly not a great line but he did manage 5 triples and 7 SB. However, his role with the Mets in 2010 would be as a defensive replacement and based on fangraphs stats he is not really qualified for that role.
DJ Carrasco: Another interesting name who has managed an ERA under 4.00 as a reliever the past 2 seasons for the WSox. Converted starter. His WHIP did increase last year.
Jackson Quezada: Someone help me on this one. Fireballer for the Padres only 22 years old and had incredible numbers in 2008. Missed all of 2009.
metsfan4decades
12/14/2009-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
This so much depends, IMO, on who we wind up with for the starting 8…..
For example: If Pagan is not traded then the 5th OF becomes somewhat less of a problem than if Pagan is traded.
And I seem to remember Cory Sullivan making some damn fine plays out there in LF last year…
trs86
12/14/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Even now Sportsypder is full of stories like “Should the Mets take a chance on Wang?”
It seems as though it’s a given that if they want to take a chance on him he will be there. Sure if the Mets decide they want to take a look feel free. But there are about 20 other teams also looking for a starter who would sign for #5 money and perform like a potential #3. So in fact you might have to “overpay” for that chance.
trs86
12/14/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Slow day.
prismo
12/14/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Extremely slow.
First things were supposed to pick up as soon as the winters meetings started…but not much happened at the meetings (a couple trade, a few low to mid level signings).
Then things were supposed to immediately heat up as soon as the non-tender deadline passed. But as you can see from any baseball site today…there’s just NOTHING out there yet.
So what are we waiting for now?
Kingman 26
12/14/2009-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
It is Monday morning after the non-tender deadline…
To paraphrase what Steve Martin said in The Jerk after seeing his name printed in the phone book for the first time “Things are going to start happening now!”
prismo
12/14/2009-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
I realize that, but I hope you understand that my point is how the media exaggerates EVERYTHING about “hot stove” to keep people interested, even when there isn’t much going on.
Some beat writer hears a GM taking a piss who says to the guy next to him (bad etiquette by the way) “Man, Lackey would be GREAT for the Giants” and 5 minutes later that beat writers posts a tweet “Giants GM makes offer to Lackey!”, it gets picked up by MLBTR, and all the blogs are buzzing about it.
Similarly, even though the hot stove season takes a while to heat up each time before it gets to another lull, you keep hearing “things are going to get WILD any time now!!” Or maybe you hear “free agent A is the lynchpin holding the flood gates back!”, but once that guy is signed there’s at least another week or two before any other big names go anywhere.
Anyway, I’m ranting. You get the idea.
Kingman 26
12/14/2009-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
LOL! I love it! You are free to join me in the TRDMB Anti-Media Ranting Lounge anytime pal!
I was just kidding with my silly comment, but of course you are 100% right and more.
prismo
12/14/2009-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
haha, don’t get me started on the media and Tiger Woods…I could go on for hours!
whataputz
12/14/2009-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Honestly can you blame him? That is the American dream. Get rich for playing a sport and have sex with multiple women. It would have been un-American for him to be loyal. In my book he’s a patriot.
prismo
12/14/2009-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
Can I blame him? Yes. There’s just about no excuse for cheating, certainly being rich and famous isn’t one. It makes him a bad person, as I have no respect for cheaters. If he wanted to do that, he shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place. Then he could sleep with all the girls he wanted to, and no one would object.
That being said, I couldn’t give less of a crap about this. It’s the equivalent of some stranger cheating on his wife (which actually is EXACTLY what this is) and it doesn’t affect me in the slightest. I don’t know Tiger. I’ve never met him and I probably never will. The media should just leave him alone. His life is pretty much a wreck right now. Yeah, he’s still filthy rich, but he might lose his kids, and there isn’t much worse than that. And he deserves it, but again…I don’t care.
People do care though, and it’s sad. Lonely people living vicariously through the excitement of other people’s lives. People who don’t support what Tiger did, but still wish they were him and could have that kind of fame, money, and attention. The irony is that Tiger probably wishes he was someone with much less fame right now. This is what humanity has come to. No one is happy in their own shoes. Instead of getting more a zen mindset, or changing into some more comfortable shoes (it’s a metaphor, people), they decide to take another route. They take “comfort” in living vicariously in other people’s shoes, and consequently destroying their lives.
I have to stop. I could seriously type for another hour or two about this.
Kingman 26
12/14/2009-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Holy crap!
+ 100!!!
I like this new Prismo!!
whataputz
12/14/2009-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
With that said, I’d like to see you turn that down. I mean did you see those women?
prismo
12/14/2009-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
Haha, thanks Kingman. I’m getting too riled up now.
And yes I would’ve turned it down Whataputz. (also, his wife is hotter than any of those tramps) I don’t know what to say…I can’t prove it, but I’d at least like to think I could keep it in my pants. I could probably play video games on the road instead of cheating and be fine or just go out with the guys. As long as you have a lady waiting for you once the golf tourney ends, it shouldn’t be incredibly difficult.
trs86
12/14/2009-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
From Buster:
While a number of teams have already reached out to pitcher Chien-Ming Wang to express interest in signing the former New York Yankee, it’s possible that he won’t sign for months, according to his agent, Alan Nero.
stickguy
12/14/2009-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
I remember seeing some piece on him that said he woldn’t be ready (even one that said he may not pitch at all?)
That, and supposedly he already turned down a MiL deal from the yankers, since he wants a guaranteed ML one.
So, it does make semse for him to wait until he can prove that he will (or won’t I guess!) be ready for ST, and then hope some team is desperate?
Either that, or maybe he is going to follow the clemns and Pedro 1/2 season plan?
whataputz
12/14/2009-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
It makes sense for him to wait it out and play the “I was an ace before I got injured” card for teams that missed out on the big names, however this off season seems to be defined by these types. Also, if Wang signs with St.Louis watch out.
wannybackstra
12/14/2009-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
Is Ryan Landerhans related to Edward Scissorhands?
Kingman 26
12/14/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
Yes, he has scissors for feet…never seen him barefoot, have you??
stickguy
12/14/2009-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
maybe teams are kind of playing chicken at this piont, waiting for the other side to blink first?
I can’t imagine that the relatively small (and weak) “cream” of the FA pool is holding the entire market hostage, is it? 1 SP and 2 OFs?
I can see bay and Holliday blocking each other a little, but there are at least 2 teams that obviously need a LF, and a few others that certainly need help also, so how is that stopping any trades?
Hey, didn’t Omar say this was going to be a very active trading off season? Let’s get moving guys!
wannybackstra
12/14/2009-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Wang has a shoulder injury which generally bodes worse for recovery than elbows.
whataputz
12/14/2009-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
OK, Lackey to the Red Sox, the stove just got turned up a notch.
stickguy
12/14/2009-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
not a done deal it seems, but certainly is an interesting step forward!
interesting speculation though on MBLTR about what dominos come after this.
any chance the Sox still go in on Bay? Has to take them out of the holliday and halladay sweepstakes you would have to think.
maybe they take a few of the prospects saved and trade for a LF?
ship Halladay to the angels, then it gets real interesting!
oleosmirf
12/14/2009-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
personally I dont believe this but if it true I think this might be a good thing. The past few days i’b started to lean more away from Lackey.
I think a flier on Bedard and an investment on Chapman should be the way to go. 1 year 7 mil for Bedard with huge incentives would be my approach.
wannybackstra
12/14/2009-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
And if he is not healthy enough to pitch effectively, where is your improvement to the staff?
oleosmirf
12/14/2009-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
it is risky but noone else out there is better than what we got now. It makes no sense to sign someone like Wolf, Piniero, Marquis, Garland, Looper, Padilla especially when you more than likely got to sign them to multi year deals.
wannybackstra
12/14/2009-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
All of the guys you mention have definite drawbacks. But all are better bets to be healthy than John Maine, better bets to be at least good enough to be a 4-5 starter than Perez and all have value as bottom of the rotation starters.
If you’re going to sign Bedard, he has to be the second of you starting rotation additions because there’s just as good a chance he will help as the chance he will not.
oleosmirf
12/14/2009-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
if the Mets are going to be postseason bound, it wont be because of any of those pitchers mentioned are our #2 starter.
We need a legit #2 SP and Bedard is the only one there besides Lackey. We can also cross Chapman off the list. Unless you are going to sign a top guy you CANNOT offer multi year deals to anyone else…
whataputz
12/14/2009-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
If Lackey is really going to Boston, suddenly I am not to opposed to signing Chapman. Just hear me out. You’re not trading for Halladay unless you empty the farm (which i would do, but it’s not happening), sheets, bedard, all of these guys are huge risks. I understand Chapman has never played a game in the majors, but I’d rather take a chance on a young healthy fireballing lefty, than throw alot of money at one of these mediocre (marquis and co) or health risk (wang and co).
wannybackstra
12/14/2009-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
Bay’s not only option for Mets
Comments: 7
By BART HUBBUCH
Last Updated: 9:26 AM, December 14, 2009
Posted: 3:12 AM, December 14, 2009
While the Mets awaited the next plot twist in their own version of “Bay Watch,” general manager Omar Minaya was busy on another front yesterday.
Minaya told The Post that the Mets plan to take advantage of this year’s heavier-than-usual market of arbitration-eligible players not tendered contracts by their previous team at Saturday night’s league-wide deadline.
Thanks to the economy, which prompted many of the non-tenders by smaller-market clubs looking to trim their budgets, the Mets will have several intriguing prospects to consider.
METS BLOG
The Mets are pursuing All-Star left fielder Jason Bay in hopes of solving a power outage last year that saw them hit a baseball-low 95 homers, and they continued to wait word on Bay’s response to their four-year, roughly $65 million offer.
Bay on Saturday rejected an unspecified four-year offer from Boston, and there continue to be reports that a mystery team — perhaps the Mariners — has made a five-year proposal to the 31-year-old Canadian that would force the Mets to up their offer or move on.
But aside from Bay, power could come from sluggers Jonny Gomes of the Reds or Jack Cust of the Athletics if the Mets want to attack the list of newly non-tendered players.
Cust, who was mainly a DH in the AL but can play the outfield, had 25 homers last season for Oakland, while Gomes blasted 20 homers for Cincinnati.
Including four by the Mets, who let loose Tim Redding, Jeremy Reed, Cory Sullivan and Lance Broadway, 39 players were non-tendered this year. That has bulged the overall free-agent class to a whopping total of nearly 270 players.
Ryan Garko, meanwhile, was non-tendered by the Giants and might be an option at first base if the Mets decide not to bring back Carlos Delgado but still want to platoon a veteran with young Daniel Murphy.
Garko, 28, had 13 homers while batting .268 in 118 games for San Francisco last season.
The Mets aren’t thought to be overly interested in Yankees starter Chien-Ming Wang or Rockies third baseman Garret Atkins, arguably the two most prominent players non-tendered, although Wang’s agent told reporters that three unspecified NL teams had inquired about him yesterday.
This year’s crop of non-tenders also includes several interesting bullpen candidates for the Mets in Pirates closer Matt Capps, Phillies right-hander Clay Condrey and Nationals closer Mike MacDougal.
Capps was a big disappointment for Pittsburgh last season, posting a 5.80 ERA, but is just 26 years old and could contend for a middle-relief spot with the Mets.
Condrey’s non-tender by the Phillies was a surprise after he had a 3.00 ERA in 45 appearances in 2009, while MacDougal saved 20 games for woeful Washington.
.
bhubbuch@nypost.com
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RSS While the Mets awaited the next plot twist in their own version of “Bay Watch,” general manager Omar Minaya was busy on another front yesterday.
Minaya told The Post that the Mets plan to take advantage of this year’s heavier-than-usual market of arbitration-eligible players not tendered contracts by their previous team at Saturday night’s league-wide deadline.
Thanks to the economy, which prompted many of the non-tenders by smaller-market clubs looking to trim their budgets, the Mets will have several intriguing prospects to consider.
METS BLOG
The Mets are pursuing All-Star left fielder Jason Bay in hopes of solving a power outage last year that saw them hit a baseball-low 95 homers, and they continued to wait word on Bay’s response to their four-year, roughly $65 million offer.
Bay on Saturday rejected an unspecified four-year offer from Boston, and there continue to be reports that a mystery team — perhaps the Mariners — has made a five-year proposal to the 31-year-old Canadian that would force the Mets to up their offer or move on.
But aside from Bay, power could come from sluggers Jonny Gomes of the Reds or Jack Cust of the Athletics if the Mets want to attack the list of newly non-tendered players.
Cust, who was mainly a DH in the AL but can play the outfield, had 25 homers last season for Oakland, while Gomes blasted 20 homers for Cincinnati.
Including four by the Mets, who let loose Tim Redding, Jeremy Reed, Cory Sullivan and Lance Broadway, 39 players were non-tendered this year. That has bulged the overall free-agent class to a whopping total of nearly 270 players.
Ryan Garko, meanwhile, was non-tendered by the Giants and might be an option at first base if the Mets decide not to bring back Carlos Delgado but still want to platoon a veteran with young Daniel Murphy.
Garko, 28, had 13 homers while batting .268 in 118 games for San Francisco last season.
The Mets aren’t thought to be overly interested in Yankees starter Chien-Ming Wang or Rockies third baseman Garret Atkins, arguably the two most prominent players non-tendered, although Wang’s agent told reporters that three unspecified NL teams had inquired about him yesterday.
This year’s crop of non-tenders also includes several interesting bullpen candidates for the Mets in Pirates closer Matt Capps, Phillies right-hander Clay Condrey and Nationals closer Mike MacDougal.
Capps was a big disappointment for Pittsburgh last season, posting a 5.80 ERA, but is just 26 years old and could contend for a middle-relief spot with the Mets.
Condrey’s non-tender by the Phillies was a surprise after he had a 3.00 ERA in 45 appearances in 2009, while MacDougal saved 20 games for woeful Washington.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/bay_not_only_option_for_mets_vyIIDW0j0ORconCaq08mGL#ixzz0ZgUt7I3Z
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/14/2009-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
What does it mean if Lackey is taking Physical with the RedSox? I thought the physicals usually come after both parties have agreed. Have the Sox and Lackey agreed on a contract?
steveo
12/14/2009-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
Yes suposedly burnet money and years
oleosmirf
12/14/2009-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Arroyo, Beckett, Cain, Correia, Halladay, Harden, Lee, Lilly, Webb all habe expiring contracts and could be FAs in 2011.
I would not add any SP to the 2011 payroll as we should keep enough money around to sign not 1 but 2 of these guys and pair them with Santana and Pelf.
I would focus this offseason on the lineup (Bay, Molina and some depth guys like Garko, Kelly Johnson) and the pen and add one SP on a 1 year deal…
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/14/2009-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
Mets cannot compete with current rotation.
whataputz
12/14/2009-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Even if we sign Bedard or Sheets or whoever is now the best pitcher out there, and even if we sign bay or halliday as well, we are still very far from being serious ws contenders.
oleosmirf
12/14/2009-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
the Phillies are easily the best team in the NL so our only hope is wildcard. If Bedard or Sheets were to reemerge as an ace then we could be there but adding a middle of the rotation guy wont makes us postseason bound, just we’ll win 85 games instead of 80…
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/14/2009-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
That would really suck if the Mets are just hoping for WildCard spot. If the Mets don’t make it to the Playoffs this season, there’s a good chance that Omar & Jerry won’t be back next year.
whataputz
12/14/2009-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Granderson to the Yankees, Lackey to Boston, Halladay to Angels (my prediction), I guess the real question is what al central team will lose in the first round. I just don’t understand why football is becoming more and more popular than baseball. The Mets sign Bay or Halliday and still suck, essentially every year is the same with different names and sometimes a new team will emerge.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/14/2009-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t see a point of signing Bay if the Mets are not getting either Lackey or Halladay.
Sure offensive numbers will improve, but the rotation is no good after Johan.
oleosmirf
12/14/2009-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
correct but there isnt a #2 SP out there (without injury concerns) so what else is there to do. You cant make another Ollie mistake…
you offer a 1 year deal ONLY to the risky Bedard or Sheets and bolster the lineup and the bullpen. If Bedard or Sheets sucks then they walk as FA and you go after the SP next year or during the deadline if we are still in it.
If you sign Wolf or someone to a 3 year deal and he underperforms then you cant afford to sign Lee, Halladay, Webb etc. in 2011
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/14/2009-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with you on the strategy. But I still think Omar should go hard at the BJays for Halladay.
oleosmirf
12/14/2009-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
our prospects do not compare with the Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox, Angels or any other team trying to get Halladay.
At this point im hoping the Jays keep him and if we are in contention, we trade for him them or he simply becomes a FA…
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/14/2009-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, the depth of the Mets prospects are shallow. But don’t you think BJays would agree to the trade if Omar throws out 2 of Davis, Mejia, FMart? And add in Maine or Pelf to the mix, Mets definitely have enough chips to get him.
Question is whether Halladay wants to come to the Mets or not.
whataputz
12/14/2009-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
okay so you trade pelfrey, you now have 2 studs, and a whole jumble of pitchers that are just can be summed up by “?”
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/14/2009-1:47pm at 1:47 pm (UTC -4)
But that’s better than Johan, Pelf and a whole jumble with “?”. Johan and Doc should put the Mets at least on even playing field with the Phillies