As the Phillies are finalizing a major move to improve their rotation and the Redsox sign away TRDM fan favorite Lackey the Mets are faced with upgrading their team with 2 less names on the market. I still expect the Mets to get one of the major FA this off-season but I also now expect Omar to be creative and seek a SP now through trade. One name I would like to suggest is Zach Duke. When I looked at Duke again I was surprised to see how young he still is.
Zach will still be 26 to start the 2010 season. He has two more years of arbitration. Last season Duke had a 4.03 ERA in 213 innings. It seems as though he has a ton of talent but really needs a mentor pitcher to show him how to use that LH talent.  Hmmm…. Johan would be good at this. (Before we mention Perez, Duke is NOT Perez. Duke averaged 6 2/3 innings per start last year.) Again this is not like a game of war and the Phillies pull out an ace and we pull out a 2 of clubs to try and match. We can’t concern ourselves with what the Phillies have done. We can only do what we can to improve our team for next year and the future. To me trading for a 26 year old established pitcher with upside is much better than overpaying for a guy like Pineiro.
Now I know the Pirates are listening on Duke as mentioned in this MLBTR article. Question is what would it take. I could not even give a true guess as the Pirates are very unpredictable.
23 comments
trs86
12/15/2009-8:38am at 8:38 am (UTC -4)
Can we get this guy out of MB hell and over here?
“Did I miss the article where it says the Phillies and Yankees are back in the World Series already in 2010? If this team’s roster is not appreciably better when Spring Training starts and we did not upgrade in left field or in the rotation before then, then we have every right to complain. It’s not like Omar doesn’t know what his fate is if he doesn’t do anything. How could we pay both Santana and Halladay and have enough $ for the rest of the team? We couldn’t. And Lackey would have helped, don’t get me wrong, but when you think of the best pitchers in the league, does he get mentioned? This is a public relations hit no doubt, but I am going to be patient and I hope that Omar does not cave into pressure to make the wrong signing. I don’t think Bay is the wrong signing, since he is a proven commodity.”
trs86
12/15/2009-8:40am at 8:40 am (UTC -4)
Also great article by Brian Costa:
“The Mets left the winter meetings with a plan, or at least a Plan A.
After three days of discussions with agents and other teams, the Mets decided to try to sign Jason Bay to play left field and sign Bengie Molina to be their starting catcher, then sign a mid-level starting pitcher (barring any unforeseen developments on the trade market).
And for all the despair caused by Monday’s flurry of activity — with John Lackey on the verge of going to the Red Sox and Roy Halladay apparently headed to Philadelphia — the Mets can still do precisely what they set out to do when they left Indianapolis.
Now, you can debate whether that was the right course of action to take. You can argue that they should have pursued Lackey all along, rather than making an offer to Bay. But Monday’s moves didn’t derail what the Mets are trying to do this week.”
oleosmirf
12/15/2009-8:46am at 8:46 am (UTC -4)
that plan is fine but not if they sign Joel Piniero for 3 years 30 mil…
Id be all in favor of trading for Duke or another SP but overpaying for mediocre pitching is a huge mistake…
trs86
12/15/2009-8:49am at 8:49 am (UTC -4)
Again, I don’t agree with the plan but Costa is right. Jumping on Omar because he has no plan or has screwed up the off-season ignores the fact that they have a plan that they feel will make the team the most successful. That plan for the moment is still intact.
darknova306
12/15/2009-8:52am at 8:52 am (UTC -4)
“(Before we mention Perez, Duke is NOT Perez. Duke averaged 6 2/3 innings per start last year.)”
BB/9 for Ollie almost never drops below 4, while Duke’s BB/9 hit a HIGH of 2.8 in his first full MLB season. I wouldn’t mind Duke, and Pittsburgh’s FO seems to enjoy trading away their young talent, so I’d say go for it.
oleosmirf
12/15/2009-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
thats the thing though. Are you confident Omar is going to bring in a player like Duke???
His eye for talent is just awful…
trs86
12/15/2009-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
Do you have an example of his eye for young talent?
trs86
12/15/2009-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
Perez was a bad contract but I don’t think otherwise you can say he does not have an eye for talent. Look at some of the players he brought in. Think about Maine, injuries aside.
oleosmirf
12/15/2009-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
besides signing the cream of the crop FAs (any WFAN caller can do that) What has Omar done that is really impressive.
I’ll give you the Santana trade but besides that pretty much every other signing has backfired…
trs86
12/15/2009-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
Backfired?
Wright and Reyes extension?
Beltran?
Delgado?
LoDuca?
Endy?
Valentin?
Pagan?
Frenchy?
I am tired of this game. He is not incompetent and is not a bad GM. You can argue that he is average and we should not have average and I would agree. However, nitpicking the minor things, blowing up the bad things and ignoring the good things is a very negative way to go about things. But then again…
oleosmirf
12/15/2009-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
i said ignore cream of the crop signings. signing beltran, trading for Delgado and LoDuca that takes no talent at all. Stealing the Marlins players is extremely easy as they pretty much throw them away. Anyone of us could make those and probably better ones…
Jose Valentin was a 1 year wonder. Endy was a great role player. I’ll give u that. Francoeur and Pagan played what 4 months for us??? lets see what long term affect they got.
How about signing Ollie to a ridiculous contract. Luis Castillo?, 2008 we were in need of help and all he does during the trade deadline is trade for Luis Ayala???
he did not address the lineup or rotation last year and acquired noone for the bench except for AAAA players like Corey Sullivan, Ramon Martinez.
trs86
12/15/2009-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Trading for Delgado and LoDuca takes no talent? You are awfully high on yourself if you think you have a clue what it would take to be a good gm. There is no doubt in my mind Omar would be better than any of us.
oleosmirf
12/15/2009-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
our terrible farm system, the way we draft, the lack of MLB ready top prospects…
trs86
12/15/2009-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
So Omar is the only one in charge of those things? He is the one that determines not to go over slot? Of course you also forget that he made 4 major trades to bring in players (you know how you want him to act right now) that robbed the farm system of many of it’s upper level players.
whataputz
12/15/2009-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
holliday got offered 8 years by st louis..you can have him
Yankees might want Bay..there he goes
This has been a fun 2 days.
udontmesswthejohan
12/15/2009-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
What happened?
fongy2
12/15/2009-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
TRS, I know you’re a big Omar defender but lets be honest,he’s
been in charge of EVERYTHING!
Latin/Minor League directors like
Pena and Tony B. who are now gone,
Mgrs like Willie who are now gone
and our current one who should be,
lack of MLB ready help going into
2010,6 yrs into his reign and Buffalo
will be stacked with non-prospects,
a Medical and Training staff which
obviously has very serious questions.
About 10 contracts totaling about 100
mil given to guys by Omar who can’t
seem to understand when hes”caught lightning in a bottle”,rather than
rewarding The Mota’s of the world with fat new contracts. Lastly, to
your back and forth with Oleo, you
make it sound as if Getting Guys like
Delgado,LoDuca And Johan as they were
being dumped by their teams weren’t
no-brainers. My friend, they were…
and in Johan’s case, there was no one else to dump him on. Signing guys
like Beltran,Pedro&Wags were great BUT even that was somewhat fortunate.
Beltran went back to the Yanks and
offered his services for the same amount. Thank God, they said no! Otherwise where would we have been.
With Pedro and Wags, yes we needed both guys and have always been glad
we signed both BUT we did have to overpay to get them. To say Omar, given the power he was provided and
the budget outlined by The Wilpons,
is an average GM, is a friggin’ insult to every average GM in the game!
trs86
12/15/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
LOL, I did not even read all of this. I know where you stand and I know all of his negatives. I am not an Omar defender to the fact that this mess is not his fault. I am saying that he is average. We can debate if the Mets should have an average GM but in my opinion we can not say he is terrible and the worst GM in baseball.
fongy2
12/15/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Didn’t say hes the worst.
Top of my head, I can say any Pirate GM of the last decade is worse,even with their
very limited budget.
They draft terribly and never seen to have a plan.
oleosmirf
12/15/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
sounds like the Mets just without the limited budget…
stickguy
12/15/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Duke wouod be great. No idea what the Pirates would want for him (or frankly, why they would trade him), but then again, it is the Pirates.
Although to be fair, the new rgime has come in with a plan and a vision, so don’t expect quite the same level of odd moves.
Still, this is esactly the typ eof move I am expecting (hoping for? wishing for?). Plus, it fits in exactly with what Omar said was the likely path of the off season (more trades than FAs).
Heck, if Molina does sign for 2-3 years, this may be where Thole goes (a mistake IMO, but that is just MO!)
Bay, Duke, Garko, Molina and Capps (just tossing out names currently in play)? That is 20% of the team replaced, and overall, looks to make them much better than they sit at the moment.
wannybackstra
12/15/2009-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
Duke is worth a risk. But he’s hardly a lock to be a front of the rotation starter and is more than likely not going to be that.
He had a decent year last year for a middle of the rotation to back of rotation type guy. Even then his K rate was a weak 4.5/9 (which is his career average) and he gave up 9.8 hits/9. If that’s him in a good year, that’s a 3-4 starter at best and with luck that some of those hits don’t leave the park.
Granted he was young but his 2006-2008 seasons were horrible. His K:BB rate was under 2:1, his K/9 even slipped under 4 and he gave up more than 10 to 13 hits per 9 during that period.
He’s shown flashes of being effective. But he’s never going to be a miss the bats kind of guy. And since he’s not really a GB pitcher, it’s not really helping him to pitch to contact.
He’s not a guy who misses bats
GravediggerHebner
12/15/2009-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Keeping my comment strictly to what it might take to get Duke, my thought is the Pirates routinely take steaming piles of pooh from every other baseball team for their players, what’s to stop them doing the same from the Mets?