In what I think is a great move for the Yankees and not so great for the Braves:Â Â According to Joel Sherman’s Twitter page: “so the trade is vazquez and boone logan to #Yankees for melky cabrera, mike dunn and arodys vizcaino, that is now confirmed by Post”
Vazquez put up Santana like numbers last year and immediately pushes the Yankees rotation back ahead of the Redsox. CC, Burnett, Vasquez, Pettitte is certainly a nice top 4.
Melky to me is confusing to the Braves. To me he only has value as a CF but that spot is already filled on the Braves. Their major need is offense and I don’t think he provides that. The trade does provide tons of salary relief which could allow them to pursue other offense options. Stay tuned there because this deal does not make sense yet.
276 comments
fongy2
12/22/2009-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
I think their idea is to play Jordan
Schaeffer in RF b/c of his arm,
McLouth in LF b/c of his relative lack of OF skills and let Melkey play
CF. Thats not a bad OF and if Schaeffer con’ts to develop like
they suspect, it could be very good.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
It does nothing for their offense though Fongy.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
Jordan Schafer’s offense even in the minors is suspect.
.269 .337 .446 .783 career in the minors. He is young but to me his value would also be in CF. Defensively they should be strong I guess but they still have a lineup worse than the Mets.
fongy2
12/22/2009-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
My friend, most everyone regards Schaeffer as a
can’t miss prospect, a better version of FMart.
Neither you nor I have any idea what he
gives them this coming season. I do know however,
they view him as a future Allstar.
Like I said in the previous thread, by your way of thinking we should just dump FMart now b/c he’s a bust. You seem to want to give up on young guys way to fast for my taste Sir.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
Not at all. I don’t know much about him. His value though according to reports is as a CF because his bat is not there yet.
As I said on the other thread I think it is too risky when you are expected to compete next year and you just saved 10 million. Looks a lot like the Mets going with Murhpy in LF instead of signing Abreu. Obviously Schaeffer is better than Murphy but you get the point. If you are going to displace the Phillies you can’t go in with question marks and money in your pocket, right?
Think about it this way.
If the Mets traded 10 million dollars away and then went with Fmart in RF still desperately needing offense….
wannybackstra
12/22/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
I haven’t read anyone who regards Schaeffer as a can’t miss prospect.
But he’s a better CFer than Melky.
Regardless of who plays RF, they are only keeping the spot warm for Heyward, who is unanimously regarded as not only a can’t miss prospect but as a potential superstar. He may break Spring Training with the RF job.
trs86
12/22/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Or 1B right? He has not played it but I thought I read they were thinking about it.
trs86
12/22/2009-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
That kid IS a beast.
jaydh
12/22/2009-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
I think they leave schaeffer in AAA ormake melky the 4th OFer and go after someone like Bay.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
I see it right now as
Melky in CF, Nate in RF and a platoon of Diaz and someone in LF. But if they could upgrade LF they would. To me Damon would make a lot of sense for them in LF as he is LH so he could platoon with Diaz and they have both also stood at 1B before.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
Melky is probably the cheaper solution w/ some pop in the bat. But I agree with trs. I think you could have done so much better with Vazquez.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
Melky’s .416 SLG to me is the opposite of pop in the bat.
saltygary
12/22/2009-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
Wow, little shocked by this one. Vazquez didn’t work out too well for the Yanks a couple years ago and I’m surprised their taking another chance on him. That year he gave up over 30 HR’s can’t imagine how many he will give up in the new digs.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
Are they really taking much of a chance? They gave up their 4th OF.
prismo
12/22/2009-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
I agree this trade is a win for the Yankees, as long as Vasquez doesn’t regress back to his 2004 Yankees days. (actually he pitched well in the first half, but horribly in the second half of the season)
But, don’t discount the fact that the Yankees gave up a couple of promising prospects. They’re not cream-of-the-crop guys, but probably both in the top 20 of the organization (before the Granderson trade). And Arodys Vizcaino is very young – he has a lot of growth to do, and will likely climb up the prospect rankings a lot in the next couple years.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
The one guy is just a reliever though? Right?
prismo
12/22/2009-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Mike Dunn? Looks like he started in the minors in 2007 and 2008, but was only a reliever last year. 3.31ERA and 1.418WHIP (ehh) in AA and AAA combined. He’s 24.
Arodys Vizcaino is only 19.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, that one. His numbers did not impress me much.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
Who are the 3 OFs? I thought Melky was going to play LF.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Many assumed that they would still add another bat because Melky would not have much value as a LF to them. Only reason they would do that is to save money….. and uh….
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
I thought by getting Johnson was their final piece of the offense. I guess this move opens up the door to Damon/Bay/Holliday.
Those damn Yankees.
steveo
12/22/2009-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
I.Wonder if were all missing the point. I Wonder if the plan now is Mclouth in right Melky in center and maybe a big bat like Holliday or Bay in left.And what about the yankees now getting one of the above.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
“The trade does provide tons of salary relief which could allow them to pursue other offense options. Stay tuned there because this deal does not make sense yet.”
Not missing the point at all. I expect it.
fongy2
12/22/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
The thought a month or two ago was that The Braves would be interested in Holliday
but I have a hard time believing they’ll
commit the yrs and money it
would take to get
either Holliday or Bay. I think it’s much more likely they
add a 2nd tier guy
on a one or two yr deal if they feel(and only they know)Schaeffers not
ready to produce offensively for them
yet.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Fongy, lets say that even Schaeffer is ready they would still need offense. Right?
They are saving this much money for a reason. Otherwise why not just hold on to Vasquez and sign an alternative to Melky which I think could be found on the FA market?
metsfan4decades
12/22/2009-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Bobby Cox was interviewed at the winter meetings and was quoted as saying emphatically, they were not in the race for the big FAs (Holliday, Halladay, Lackey or Bay). He said they need offense, they’ve got plenty of pitching and even though you really can’t have enough pitching, he said ‘we know we’re going to have to give up some of that to get some offense’.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Yup, now what still needs to be determined is if they are bind enough to think that Melky is that offense.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Bravo’s been screwing up their trades/FA signings lately. Frenchy/Church trade, Lowe signing and now this. At least McClouth trade wasn’t that bad.
darknova306
12/22/2009-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Doesn’t Vazquez free up something like $11-12MM for the Braves? Could they be looking to make a run at Bay to fill their offensive hole? At least that’s the first thing that came to mind when I saw this.
Trying to maintain the ‘it’s a long offseason, be patient’ mentality. But this is getting ridiculous.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Yes I think it does. Something else we may consider and hold on for this one.
With Melky still having a few years under team control and the Braves having a deep farm system I think they could jump head first into the Agonz battle. Makes perfect sense for them.
Melky, a star pitching prospect, a star OF prospect and one of the pitchers from the Yankees deal. Done deal.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Bravos may come in and sweep away Bay with the 5th year offer. And the Mets end up signing Ollie… oh wait…
trs86
12/22/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
God I hope that’s all it is in terms of them blowing Bay away. But I really think they may make a push for Agonz now.
If they got him for that team they would on paper be even with the Phillies because of that rotation.
darknova306
12/22/2009-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. That prospect scares me.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
It really makes tons of sense for them. They could easily trade one of their star pitching prospects because their rotation is already deep and has some young guys in it. They could easily trade Melky because they have Nate. They could easily trade an OF prospect because they have a ton. Their bullpen is stocked already and both of those guys they got from the Yankees would be attractive to SD. Oh man I hope I am wrong.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Yeah that’s a scary proposition. Hopefully SD is more reluctant to give up AGonz…
trs86
12/22/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Even if they are, if you were SD could you turn that down?
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
There’s no incentive to trade AGonz right now, I think. Sure they’ll rid of his 5.5M contract, but I’m sure the Pads can get similar talent for AGonz later down the road.
wannybackstra
12/22/2009-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Turn what down? An offer of unnamed players?
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
This trade makes both the Braves and Yankees possible destinations for Bay. Nice….
trs86
12/22/2009-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Yes it does. Again that would not bother me. My biggest fear is now the Braves have the room to trade for Agonz.
jaydh
12/22/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Fine with me, how hard can it be to outbid the Cards for Holliday? Or get valverde on the cheap. There are other, better options still out there.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Agreed on Bay but no way do I want to “outbid” the Cards for Holliday. This is just a weak market and if neither will come at a price that won’t handicap the Mets for years to come then I will just pass and get some one year guys.
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
This is the biggest BS.
Swisher last year, Granderson and Vazquez, too.
How do these jerks keep on making great trades while giving up nothing?
Doesn’t affect the Mets, other than the Braves are weaker now and Lowe won’t be an option, but still pisses me off.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
It very much affects the Mets because the Braves need offense and now have money to spend on it as well as prospects to do it with.
mrose
12/22/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Swisher – took on salary and to be honest, he hit around 200 in 2008, so no one saw it as that much, including me.
Granderson – took on salary again, and I think Granderson will continue to regress – thats just me
Vazquez – wasn’t good one time, I need to be shown differently
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
they gave up nothing for these guys by taking advantage of limitless wallets without having to give up much in prospects.
mrose
12/22/2009-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
i see the yanks resigning damon now.
I don’t see this as a huge win for the Yankees either… kinda status quo until Vazquez shows he can pitch in the AL successfully.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
I disagree. Vazquez’s “bad” year with the Yankees. 4.91 ERA 14-10 198 innings, 1.288 WHIP. Even those numbers puts him as the Mets #2. LOL. He is not going there to be a #1 anymore. He is going there to be the #4.
mrose
12/22/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
the difference with the Mets is that except Ollie who was a disaster last year, Vazquez more than a #4 should make, but it is the Yankees, lol. I guess they never want to give Joba/Hughes a real chance, kinda feel bad for those two
trs86
12/22/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
They still have room to give those guys a chance right?
CC, AJ, Pettitte, Vasquez, ?
mrose
12/22/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
i’m just sayin… they had the whole generation tre thing and they have ruined Joba with the insane plan for him (i dont’ care what people say, its fine to have an innings limit, its another to have him pitching 2-3 innings per start in August!)
and Hughes has been solid when he pitches, he just didn’t stay healthy except last year. I wonder if tehy are finally realizing that Joba is a future Closer and maybe Hughes goes to the rotation?
trs86
12/22/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
I think they have an open competition but perhaps use Hughes to limit Joba’s innings. Very well could use Joba as Rivera’s replacement in the waiting.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
True. Unlike last time Vazquez was a Yankee, there’s no pressure on Vazquez to perform well with CC and AJ leading the rotation.
fongy2
12/22/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
My friends, if Vasquez gives
them a pitching line of:
7ip7h4r2bb6k, just about
every time out in2010,hes
gonna win 15to18 games for them because of their offense
and defense. Thats all you need from a 3rd starter which
is what he’ll be for them.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
You could even look at him as their #4 with Pettitte there.
fongy2
12/22/2009-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
Indeed. Its a no brainer for the yankees.
I wonder how many of they’re fickle fans want to fire Cashman now?
trs86
12/22/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
They have for sure made some good moves and used that tons of cash well.
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
In the Daily News poll, 41% say Vazquez is a good pitcher but wish they would’ve kept Melky!
wannybackstra
12/22/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Vazquez needs to show he could pitch in the AL successfully?
How about in Chicago (AL) with a 8.6 K/9, 1.24 WHIP, 3.6 K:BB, 2.4 BB/9, 8.8H/9 and a 4.40 ERA?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/vazquja01.shtml?redir#2006-2008-sum:pitching_simple
At best he will have to be the Yanks #3 but will likely be slotted against other teams’ #4s.
steveo
12/22/2009-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
I think the rotation might have taken a serious blow, Vasquez was solid for them last year and if Lowe is the same as last year that rotation doesn’t look as good as it once did.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
True, so to me that is why they are only doing it so they can spend that 11 million on offense some where.
steveo
12/22/2009-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Wonder what there budjet is now at
trs86
12/22/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
I would say they have about 15-20 million left as scary as that may sound.
fongy2
12/22/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
You just made Scott Boras drool!
trs86
12/22/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
I seriously think Agonz is on his way to Atlanta. It just makes too much sense.
Melky, top OF prospect, top pitching prospect, 2 Yankees guys.
mrose
12/22/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
from a Braves standpoint, I figured they needed to trade Lowe and not Vazquez
trs86
12/22/2009-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think they could.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
But no one wanted Lowe. Vazquez was their best trading chip.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
That is why I think they could have gotten more and gotten someone that fit more in what they needed. An offensive guy. To me this is step one and a trade is coming.
mrose
12/22/2009-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
yea.. I will agree that if they decided to trade Vazquez, as they obviously did, they should/could have pulled back more than the Melk man.
hey.. on a positive, no more melk man delivers from J Sterling
trs86
12/22/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
True, I just think there is more to this story. I will be very surprised if not. Why would the Braves basically do a salary dump if they were not going to spend the money?
mrose
12/22/2009-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
Frank Wren isn’t exactly making himself out to be executive of the year lately, so I won’t be surprised either way
fongy2
12/22/2009-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
The Melkey-Way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jaydh
12/22/2009-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
yes it does, JJ, Hanson, Hudson, KK, Lowe. when their #5 would be our #2, it still looks good.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Still looks good but not AS good. LOL.
Taking KK out for Vazquez is just a ridiculous SR.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
One good thing about this trade is that there’s one less competition for Sheets.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
I guess so.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
It is the Yankees though. Take a chance on a guy like Sheets and end up with the best rotation of all time.
CC, AJ, Pettitte, Vazqeuz, Sheets. LOL.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
Yes, you can never count the Yankees out.
prismo
12/22/2009-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
As I suspected, the Yankees are STILL not in the hunt for a big free agent. They picked up over $8MM in this trade. If they go for an OF in the FA market, it’s going to be someone who isn’t looking for a $16MM+ per year, 4+ year contract.
I highly doubt the Braves would enter the market for Bay/Holliday as well. They traded for Melky and he’ll be a starter. Matt Diaz had a good ’09 season, and he’ll be way way way cheaper than Bay/Holliday (obviously).
trs86
12/22/2009-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
Diaz is a platoon guy.
prismo
12/22/2009-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
He played in 125 games last season with an OPS of .878
Platoon or no platoon, it’s not worth paying $65+MM for an outfielder when Diaz will *maybe* make $2MM in 2010. If they really want to keep him as a “platoon” they’d be better off finding a much cheaper option on the market.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
We shall see. I will believe that they will use that 11 million+ saved until April.
prismo
12/22/2009-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Well Melky’s going to cost $3-4MM, so it’s a bit less.
trs86
12/22/2009-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Will he? He cost 1.4 this past year, you think he will go up that much?
prismo
12/22/2009-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Haha honestly I have no clue. But Joel Sherman says “Yankees figured Melky’s arb was going to be #3-3.5M”
steveo
12/22/2009-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
Out of those five JJ looks solid ,Hudson is comming of an injury Lowe who knows Hanson might have that sophomore curse KK who nows with him as well not very consistant.But definatley better than the mets rotation. I really don’t care with all these moves it will be even sweeter if the Mets finish even 2nd. Everybody in the media’s couting them out as dead. Screw these moves screw these FAs let’s go to war with what we got
trs86
12/22/2009-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
Dang, Braves net .5 million in the trade. For sure I think they will spend this money on offense.
fongy2
12/22/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Yeah but you can’t even get a quarter of Alex Cora for that!
Well, Omar can’t.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
No point is that they are getting that and 11 million in salary relief. They have money to spend on offense and I expect them to.
mikemattone
12/22/2009-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
I see Frank Wren as banking on Nate McLouth to provide Markakis-type numbers from a corner OF spot, and have McCann at C and Heyward at 1B to provide the 4-5 meat of the order. McLouth and Melky in the outfield help their pitchers with higher fly ball rates. Atlanta trying to counter Philly’s American League lineup with one heck of an outfield defense. Probably won’t work, but at least they’re doing something.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Still why would they trade Vazquez to get Melky numbers? That could be had without trading him on the FA market. They are saving that 11 million for something.
wannybackstra
12/22/2009-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
Heyward has never played 1B as a pro.
trs86
12/22/2009-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Yankees with the joke of the day:
#Yankees say Melky departure does not open door to Damon nor put Bay/Holliday in play. Still saying all too expensive
trs86
12/22/2009-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
TUESDAY, 9:34am: Yahoo’s Jeff Passan hears that the trade talks are not dead. The Reds want a decent prospect plus George Sherrill for Harang, since they’re willing to eat almost $10MM of Harang’s $14MM salary to make the deal cost-neutral for the Dodgers.
metsfan4decades
12/22/2009-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Looking at MLBTR comments from Yankees fans, they seem to all take for granted the Yankees should now just go out and get Bay and/or Holliday and/or every other name out there who will make the team better and screw the $$. It’s like it’s not even a consideration.
And you know, maybe it’s not considering the Yankees are paying over 25 MIL penalty for going over the threshold in 2009….
Yankee fans use the argument of ‘their’ owners put money earned back into the team, not in their pockets. It’s not their fault the small market teams owners pocket their profits.
But, but, but….The Yankees seem to be the only team who could care less how much they have to pay in luxury tax to field the team they want. On that note alone, it’s never going to be a level playing field.
Jeeze, just think what the Mets could go after going up to the luxury tax threshold and going over it.
Bottom line though is it’s all about how GMs spend the budget they do have, no matter how big/small. Real – above – gave us a reality check on how many GMs have made some bonehead deals the past several years. It’s not just all Omar and Castillo/Perez.
trs86
12/22/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, that list is sobering. It came from another site.
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
hmm, so Lackey at 5/$85M
OR
Vazquez at 1/$11.5M + Melky and a couple of prospects?
trs86
12/22/2009-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Yup, I was thinking the same thing. In the AL East who knows who would put up better numbers?
metsfan4decades
12/22/2009-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
And to continue while I’m on a roll…..
I said last night the problem we’ve got now is perception. I really do believe some of these big names are thinking twice about coming to the Mets. Let’s face it, the past couple of years the team has not portrayed the reputation Omar was seeking when he got Pedro and Beltran. And some of it is his fault (re: Bernazard/Rubin).
Time to get serious. No more off field lunacy. Guys come to ST in shape, ready to play, and all cop whatever attitude collectively as a team that’s needed to bring some legitimacy back to this franchise. We’re a NY team, for crying out loud.
Where’s that ’86 team attitude when you need it?
I’m looking forward to 2010 – Let’s Go Mets!
trs86
12/22/2009-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
I still don’t think it’s perception as much as it is now Omar is finally holding a firm line. Overpaying for anyone in this class would have been a mistake.
metsfan4decades
12/22/2009-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
I agree. The pressure on him to field a competitive team this upcoming year while not overpaying for some borderline stars must be enormous. ..Especially after last year. I’m not blaming Omar for 2009 at all. There is just no way any one GM, nor minor league camps, could have compensated for the amount of injuries we had.
And if he goes the route of getting pieces to start the year, I’ll still hold a ‘wait and see’ attitude. We have so many question marks, especially with the rotation we currently have, you would need a crystal ball to determine what is REALLY needed. IMO though, we really need that #2 behind Johan and not so sure we’re going to have that to start the year…
darknova306
12/22/2009-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
The biggest question marks, in my mind, are mostly in the rotation, thus the need to improve it. I know we’ll likely get an upgrade or two there, but if we don’t… I’m gonna get stabby. :p
fongy2
12/22/2009-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Well, a cuple days before Christmas eve and this retooling of our NY Mets
is going well huh.
Good thing our FO didn’t mandate a
budget for Omar and that six years
in his dafting(wasn’t that his forte)
has been so strong we can give salary
relief to other teams inacquiring
good, solid ML players.
But hey, we still may end up with Bay
and that goes right along with the
Pitching and Defense plan recently
put forth by our terribly underrated
GM from East Elmhurst. Right???
C’mon! Juunowatensayin’!
prismo
12/22/2009-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
And here’s the kicker: Vasquez will likely be a Type A FA next offseason. The Yankees will offer him arb, he’ll probably reject it, and they’ll get 2 draft picks.
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
great point
wannybackstra
12/22/2009-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
The Yanks don’t always offer guys arb. They didn’t offer anyone arb this year. If Vazquez has a so-so season I don’t think they’d make the offer to him either.
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
well duh, but Vazquez will be a hot commodity, unlike Damon and Andy.
but as the 4th starter behind CC, AJ and Andy, w/ a Yankee lineup backing you up, there’s no reason why Vazquez shouldn’t do as well as he did for the Braves.
It’s not like he’s a flyball pitcher and will see his HR rates jump, he’s a strikeout pitcher.
wannybackstra
12/22/2009-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
The Braves would be awfully tough with this lineup:
McLouth CF
Escobar SS
Jones 3B
Bay LF
McCann C
Heyward/Cabrera RF
Garko/Tracy 1B
Prado 2B
Hanson/Hudson/Kawakami/Jurrgens/Lowe/Medlen P
fongy2
12/22/2009-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
Wake up Omar!
The off-season is underway!
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
I feel you, but there’s no way we were getting Vazquez or Lowe.
Honestly, I don’t know what the answer is.
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
Your last sentence speaks volumes.
Maybe I just need a good hot meal but I’ve lost interest in trying to drag a net across the bottom of the ocean, haul it aboard ship, and hope to find a plan in it.
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
really, every option seems to be a bad option.
I might be okay with adding a Bedard or Sheets (if they are healthy) and waiting to the trade deadline to see what’s available.
A healthy core would do wonders for this team.
Santana-Sheets/Bedard-Ollie-Pelf-Maine
Pagan-Castillo-Reyes-Wright-Beltran-Frenchy-Murphy-Santos
That should be good until some guys become available at the trade deadline.
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
It’s a Mets Xmas 2009
by Mr North Jersey
December 22 and all over the blogs
all you keep reading is about the
Mets and Minaya.
Give him time, wait you’ll see
He always comes through
you just gotta believe.
He’s gotten
Beltran, Santana, Krod
and Francouer.
Pedro, Wagner
and I’m sure there
was more.
So with 2010 now
within sight
Remember you have till
Dec 31st to renew your
season tickets,
Yeah Right.
Thank you Thank you
I also do PostCards
My Xmas to those that still have faith in Minaya.
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
On the plus side, I do give credit to Omar for his patience. The one guy I personally wanted him to go above and beyond for, he didn’t, and everybody else IMO is not worth going above and beyond for so IMO credit to him for not just throwing money all over the place at mediocrity.
On the negative side, I just have to hope that this patience is going to result in something positive. The Mets and Marlins are the only teams in their division that haven’t signed or traded for someone who anybody but the most hardcore fan has heard of before.
Flying under the radar is great, but it only works if you have a bomb to drop and you hit the target with it. I raise my glass to your aim Omar.
oleosmirf
12/22/2009-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
i’d like to see how Vasquez pitches in NY. His reputation (fair or not) is that he is not a big game pitcher and his last tenure with the Yankees was not impressive. He was pretty much booed out of town.
I’m glad we didnt trade for him…
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
I was referring to Lackey, not Vazquez, as the “one guy I wanted” above.
Vazquez may have been booed out of town (I was living in Boston at the time so I can’t say one way of the other) but I wouldn’t call 14-10 and a WHIP of 1.288 “not impressive.”
Last time as a Yankee he was the only starter to make over 27 starts (32) and was surrounded in the rotation by guys at various stages of decay in Jon Leiber, Mike Mussina and Kevin Brown, and the Yankees were 3 years removed from a WS appearance and 4 years from winning one. This time he has some AL success to fall back on (with the Chisox) and will be surrounded by CC, AJ and Andy who will all be wearing shiny new rings.
I believe this time around will be significantly better than the last time.
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Once again, Well said
I really do hope I am just wrong in my opinion of Omar and his patience is due to some vision he has on how to go about improving the club that no one (especially me) can see.
I love your analogy about flying under the radar It would be the highlight of the offseason if Minaya had such a move waiting to blow everyone’s minds.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
I just wish that his patience does not result in basically a same team as last year.
wannybackstra
12/22/2009-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
Too funny. I hope the Yankees can balance their books by shedding Mitre’s $1.25m!
From LBTR:
Yankees Will Try To Trade Gaudin Or Mitre
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 22 at 10:24am CST]
Now that they’re set to acquire Javier Vazquez, the Yankees have a surplus of pitching. Joel Sherman of the New York Post says (via Twitter) that the Yanks will try to trade Chad Gaudin or Sergio Mitre before Spring Training ends to free up some money.
Both pitchers will become free agents after the season. Mitre earned $1.25MM last year, striking out 32 batters in 51.2 innings for a 6.79 ERA (5.40 FIP). Gaudin earned $2MM, striking out 139 in 147.1 innings and allowing just 146 hits for an ERA of 4.64 (4.16 FIP). Gaudin would figure to have some value on the trade market.
dirtysanchez
12/22/2009-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
well…bay and holidays agents look like geniuses now for not signing their clients early…Hope Omar has another plan because the pool just got crowded
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
you know Cashman has always been waiting in the bushes to see what happens w/ Holliday.
Hopefully the Angels sign Bay.
dirtysanchez
12/22/2009-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
hopefully WE sign bay…
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
as long as we don’t overpay
wannybackstra
12/22/2009-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
Overpaying is better than doing nothing. The damage caused by overpaying is that it prevents them from making other necessary moves. If they aren’t going to make a series of moves then they may as well overpay for a guy who can help.
I think you deal with whatever problems the payroll causes down the road when you get there. We’ve seen other teams, including the Braves today, manage to maneuver around tighter budgets than what the Mets have by dealing off salaries.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
I agree. And I really don’t see Omar overpaying. He hasn’t overpaid anyone significant (well except for Luis)
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
sorry, I was being sarcastic
dirtysanchez
12/22/2009-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
Can we just FFW to opening day…this crap is killing me
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Take it for what it’s worth, but WEEI in Boston just had on Bob Klapisch to basically speak with him about the whole Red Sox-Yankees dynamic, but their conversation wandered to the Mets:
- One radio host describes the Mets as “a pinata being battered around that can’t give their money away to free agents.”
- Klapisch said: “the Mets are so flawed overall and their pitching is so bad overall that any investment in current free agents would be counter-productive. They really need to get younger. A 4 or 6 year deal for Aroldis Chapman makes much more sense for their organization than a 5 year deal for Jason Bay or a 3 year deal for a 35 year old catcher.”
- relevant for Met fans also, Klapisch said: “No Holliday, no Bay for the Yankees. They really are trying to keep their payroll under $200 million, DeRosa makes the most sense for them as an investment in a viable backup at almost every position on the field, look for the Yankees to sign him.”
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
Is this the dude that said to trade away one of the best pitchers in the baseball to rebuild?
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
Yes. Also I think described the Carlos Beltran signing as a failed experiment, or something along those lines. That’s why I said “take it for what it’s worth.”
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
The dude is an idiot.
The Mets had one bad season and they are all of sudden in a rebuilding mode? Not to mention the fact that this is a team in NY. Idiot.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
I hate to say it, but he is not an idiot.
As I have said, he made his career in the early 90s by writing a book about the horrible Met teams back then, and by a TV camera catching it when Bonilla threatened to hurt him in the clubhouse.
The guy works for a news organization which has become hugely profitable by spewing inflammatory nonsense–to get ratings.
Klapisch is surely a clown, but stupid he is not. He just wants to get paid as much as possible for being a “sportswriter” and he figured out how to do it in the early 90s thanks to the Mets.
saltygary
12/22/2009-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
I’ve always respected Klapisch. People may not like what he says but he has the guts to say them.
On the earlier Santana comment, if the team cannot right the ship and get itself back into contention next season, then trading him is not a horrible idea. He is currently one of the few players the team has with any trade value and if the team go’s into any significant restructuring then he would provide more value back in prospects then in the wins he brings. Do I want that to happen, no but it is a business.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
The dude is an idiot. Why in the world would you trade away one of the best pitcher in baseball for bunch of prospects? Sure they maybe good prospects, but the chances of them turning out to be Johan in the immediate future is slim to none. Mets are a team that is looking to compete now. No way the move would be tolerated in NY.
saltygary
12/22/2009-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
The team is built to win now but if they don’t again this season, the game plan will need to change. Is blowing money with no results any better than some sort of re-building? At least with some sort of re-building there seems to be more of a plan in place. If the team fails this season what is 20mil off the books and meaningless wins gonna get the team?I love Santana and Omar pulled off an amazing trade to get him but if the team continues to not be in a winning position then I want to maximize his value.
mrose
12/22/2009-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
ok, so you are another one who thinks the “window is closing”….
I made a post earlier about how Beltran may be borderline old, especially w/ the injuries last year, but the other studs are young and the Phillies didn’t start their runs until most stars were near 30 years old…
saltygary
12/22/2009-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
No I wouldn’t describe it as the Window is closing it’s more of how talent and salary is distributed with this team that has me concerned.
In 2009 they had the second highest payroll with 60mil going to just 4 players. Then you have very reasonable contracts for Wright and Reyes that won’t be that reasonable eventually. Major issues with 2-4 in the starting rotation, weak farm system, and question marks at OF, 1b. This cannot all be addressed on one off season. At some point something will have to give if the team is not competitive next season.
Maybe “the window is closing” might be the way to describe it. The anxiety of the fanbase is higher than I have ever seen since following the team in ’85. Maybe that’s do to the difference in media but I can’t see how the fan base won’t explode if the team doesn’t win. Heads will role within the organization and players will probably move.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
The Fan base will explode if Johan is traded. I’d rather see Beltran, Reyes and Wright get traded before Johan.
saltygary
12/22/2009-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
And I rather see them win and not trade anybody
mrose
12/22/2009-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
also, no matter when they would trade Santana, whether its now at low value or after a cy young season next year and the Mets underperforming.. they won’t get great stuff in return unless we eat salary or send him to the Yanks, sox, or angels and then we likely don’t get the prospects.. it doesn’t work with his salary
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
If the team does not win this season, you’d rather rebuild than sign other FAs that can get the Mets over the hump? So the Mets do not get into the post season this year, don’t you think it would be better to sign guys like Beckett to go along with Johan in 2011? You mean to tell me that the rotation headed by Johan and Beckett PLUS Beltran, Wright, Reyes, Bay(?) AND KRod is not worth trying?? You would rather waste talents of Wright, Reyes, and Beltran to rebuild than to at least give it a try??
This is not an old team. Wright and Reyes have yet to hit their prime years. Beltran and KRod are in their primes. What in the world makes you think that the window is closing?
I understand the move IF this were a small market team and have very tight budget. But this is NY we’re talking about.
saltygary
12/22/2009-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
It is NY and they already are close to max salary. My concerns have nothing to do with the age of the team.
You can’t win with the players you listed unless there is a strong group around them. That’s a lot of money between those guys and I don’t see the Wilpons pulling that off.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
So you’d rather see the Mets breaking up the guys they currently have and rebuild. What guarantees are there that the new group of guys will work or be competitive?
I agree with you that you need strong role players to make your team work, but that’s 2-3 players away from being a real contender. Why breakup what you have and rebuild when you can get couple more role players to really bond the team.
I really see the Mets as 2-3 players away from WS team. Sure the Phillies are a better team right now. But if Omar makes right moves AND if everyone stays healthy I really see a competitive team.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
Well said, and much more maturely than I am capable of in the face of this sea of silliness.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
The team is most definitely and absolutely not built to win now, and trading Johan is an absolutely ridiculous idea, suggested by Klapisch to get ratings.
Come on man.
Wright is 27 and Reyes is 26; Johan will be 31 and KRod will be 28.
The damn team was in or very near first place every damn day from Opening Day 2006 through July of 2009! And after that, was not in contention ONLY because of a record amount of injuries!
Why do some of you subscribe to the moronic notion that the team is in such disarray??
Wake up!!
fongy2
12/22/2009-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry to tell ya rose but the window
is closing. We’ve only got Reyes and Wright under contract for 2 yrs,Reyes
is coming off a serious injury,Beltran ‘s legs are going as
hes now in his 30s and Johan will
soon be 31, coming off arm surgery.
Who knows if KRod failings of the
2nd half won’t be continued.
Delgado’s gone,Pelf& Maine haven’t developed as expected,theres little
coming thru the system and we’re
stuck with Ollie’s and castillo’s
contracts for a couple more seasons.
Beyond that, even our role players are either question marks,i.e. Frenchy or just not very good.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
So you like the idea of trading Johan for prospects?
fongy2
12/22/2009-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
Absolutely not!
My point and I think the point of many here
is that Omar needed to
find a way to bring in
a real live body/borderline allstar in his prime,
like a Carl Crawford,
AND a solid secondary
player to add to our
lineup,either @1B,2B
OR RF. He also needed
to bring in a legit,
live armed,still in his prime,healthy #2SP
to slot in behind Johan and give us 220IPs&17/18wins.
Lastly, he needed to
add a solid,reliable
set up man in The Pen.
These 3or4,fresh young,in their prime
players would be added to our core which we’d hope would
return healthy and not
having lost any of their skills.
He needed to somehow find a taker for Castillo and maybe even Ollie.
He’s done none of these things!
He’s focused on upgrading The Catching
position with guys who aren’t much,if any
better than Scheider/Castro And
now appears to be ready to bid against himself for a very good but not great,
defensively challanged
LFer WHO will be paid as a Superstar.
I don’t think any of us feel we have no shot next yr or that
our core is finished
BUT adding the likes
of a Marlon Byrd or
J.Dye to the lineup
and signing a Sheets or Bedard and hoping
they’ll pitch and be the Pitchers they were
2/3 yrs ago is not what anyone thought
this retooling would look like.
It’s also not enough to make this team better than The Phillies or even The Braves at this point.
mrose
12/22/2009-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
Fongy – unfortunately I don’t have the time to draw out my response completely, but I just look at it different than you. If Reyes is Reyes again this or next year, we are gonna sign him long term, same with Wright. Beltran, fine, I will give you that. Johan is gonna be fine you have to assume and KRod, I totally think he is one of those people who needs adrenaline and in the 2nd half, the Mets were out of it, why should he get up to play? lol..
I dunno, i’m not saying I expect a ws, but I expect them to compete and possibly surprise.
saltygary
12/22/2009-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
It’s really tough not to by cynical about this group after the last 3 years. There is always some reason why they don’t win. If they don’t win this season then the proof is in the pudding.
fongy2
12/22/2009-2:14pm at 2:14 pm (UTC -4)
Thank you Gary.
I said all LAST offseason
we needed to bring in a new face or two for
the lineup after the collapse we witnessed in ’07&08.
We didnot.
Figuring that
the upgrades to the BP would fix the problem of two epic choke jobs. Now, after all the injuries,with Delgado gone
from the cleanup spot,
Its very hard for me to believe everyone not only bounces back but are better than they were in ’07&08.
Where’s the help here Omar?
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
WFAN I just heard that R.A. Dickey a knuckeballer may be a Met soon.
R.A. who?
mrose
12/22/2009-2:31pm at 2:31 pm (UTC -4)
Dickey…
minor league deal http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/wires/12/22/2010.ap.bbn.mets.dickey.0192/
i’m ok with it simply to make fun of his name…
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
Allow me to be the 1st
That Dick’s balls sure do knuckle.
I feel so dirty now.
That just was so wrong on so many levels.
mrose
12/22/2009-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
hahaha
can we do the John Sterling call for RA Dickey? I know he is a pitcher…but that could be great
mrose
12/22/2009-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
I wonder what RA stands for?
Richard Andrew Dickey?
mrose
12/22/2009-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
ah Robert Allen
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
John Sterling: a long drive at the wall, GONE… R.A. Dickey drives it deep for a solo shot. “OH Dickety Doo Dah”.
Suzan W.: I always said I luv that Dickey.
mrose
12/22/2009-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
orrr as a wild pitch
“and RA Dickey Delivers and pounds Jeter in the rear end”
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
wow LoL
mrose
12/22/2009-3:03pm at 3:03 pm (UTC -4)
yea, we should close this thread lol
fongy2
12/22/2009-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
And there’s your innings eater my friends!!!
Thank you for playing!
We’ll see you again,
take your time and
arrive home safely!
Until next time, remember…….
It’s only stealing if you get caught!!
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-3:46pm at 3:46 pm (UTC -4)
The champagne will be that much sweeter
when the Mets play with their Dickey
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-4:43pm at 4:43 pm (UTC -4)
Please Mark Cuban. I’m begging you. Save our team. The Wilpons have no clue how to run an MLB team.
saltygary
12/22/2009-3:20pm at 3:20 pm (UTC -4)
I like these type of moves for the bullpen. Having a submariner like Bradford or this guy is good to throw off the timing and change the pace is a good thing.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-4:18pm at 4:18 pm (UTC -4)
He is not a submariner—he is a knuckleballer….A bad knuckleballer is utterly useless, as Dickey’s sucky career shows.
Go check out his stats—he makes Bradford look like Tom Seaver or Walter Johnson.
His stats are truly atrocious in all ways.
Weak, silly, and unnecessary signing.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-4:14pm at 4:14 pm (UTC -4)
I will join the Nabobs here, as Dickey is HORRIBLE.
Check out his career stats—sorry, he does not even belong in AAA infecting youngsters or getting shelled when folks are paying their money to see AAA ball.
The really funny part is that in 2008 he threw 7 or 8 shutout innings against us, in probably his best–or maybe only good–MLB game.
This guy is what would exist if you could create a pitcher out of Tim Wakefield’s bad days only.
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-3:53pm at 3:53 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t let the irony of posting this in a thread called “the rich get richer” pass.
Alex Cora
Chris Coste
Mike Hessman
Henry Blanco
Clint Everts
Ryota Igarashi
Elmer Dessens
R.A. Dickey
The rest of the NL trembles in fear…
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-4:06pm at 4:06 pm (UTC -4)
damn, where does Omar get his bagels?
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-4:07pm at 4:07 pm (UTC -4)
I have to laugh to keep from feeling the pain, I really do.
I am at a point where I would rather the Mets just have the Mets don’t waste money on any retreads and let the Baby Mets have a run at it.
How much worse can they be?
I would rather have FMart play LF and Platoon Murphy with Davis at 1st And platoon Thole and Santos behind the plate.
Let Castillo finish that monster of a contract
Let Reyes show he is back and if so reward him handsomely.
Let Wright man 3rd
Let Frenchy play RF
Let Beltran play CF
Let Santana, Ollie, Pelfrey lead the way for better or worse
Let Maine, Niese, Nieve and Dickey (lol) take up the rear.
Let Krod and ryosumthin or other be the finishers out of the pen.
Allow the rest of the pen to be whatever it may be.
If they catch fire and are competetive bring in a player at the trading deadline.
If they are not well we at least developed a kid or 2 and can reevaluate with whomever the new GM and mgr will be.
Now let me exhale,
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-4:15pm at 4:15 pm (UTC -4)
somewhat agree, though opening day would be Pagan in LF, a Santos-Blanco Platoon, and Murphy at 1B. No need to rush FMart, Thole or Davis until someone gets injured.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
Does Figgy start game 2?
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-4:47pm at 4:47 pm (UTC -4)
he’ll be a 20 game winner
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-4:53pm at 4:53 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-4:29pm at 4:29 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks for jinxing it.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-3:54pm at 3:54 pm (UTC -4)
Now the Mets really need to go out and get the former Reds pitching coach.
mrose
12/22/2009-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
Dick Pole is out to check on his Dickey and make sure he has the stamina to continue
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
They have been golfing together, and Pole has helped Dickey with his stroke….he has been tapping it longer and straighter than before….look for them to erect a statue of them both at their course….
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-4:42pm at 4:42 pm (UTC -4)
“It’s in the hole!”
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
never have i ever looked up at my name and thought i was foolish. until now.
mrose
12/22/2009-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
i still laugh at your avatar though….thats good, right?
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-4:37pm at 4:37 pm (UTC -4)
Definitely good. Glad I can keep you entertained with that one. I was actually going to change it.
So let’s see, the 2008 Yanks miss the playoffs and retaliate by signing Tex, Sabathia, and Burnett. The 2009 Mets lose 92 games and retaliate by signing Igarashi, Blanco, and Dickey. Oh, and we re-signed Alex Cora FOR $2MILLION!!!!!!?!?!?!??
I’m not saying Bay, Holliday, and Lackey are nearly as good as the trio the Yanks got, but not going after Holliday and letting Lackey just walk on by is a downright disgrace.
Mark Cuban, if you’re out there – please buy our team. SOS
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-4:39pm at 4:39 pm (UTC -4)
Well, it has been broached (by a caller to a sports talk radio station) that the Mets haven’t signed anyone noteworthy or expensive because they’re selling the team, but it seems far-fetched.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-4:41pm at 4:41 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, those Cuban Mavs have how many titles? Wait, zero?
Oh, and they have precisely one Finals appearance?
And in the last three years they lost twice in the 1st round and once in the 2nd? And in a league where half the teams make the playoffs, right?
They finished 3rd in their division last year and 4th two years ago, which in baseball means no playoff spot, right?
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-4:49pm at 4:49 pm (UTC -4)
Mark Cuban is the only guy in sports that won’t be intimidated by teh Yanks ability to outspend him…because I’m not sure they could.
I’m not syaing I want to have a $200MM team. But what they are doing right now is shameful. They are sitting there and letting Bay keep them waiting. Waiting just long enough for the Yanks to swoop in and offer him more. It’s a joke.
Maybe you’re right and it’s not the owner’s fault. Maybe the franchise is just so pi$$ poor that no FA in their right frigging mind would want to play for us.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-4:56pm at 4:56 pm (UTC -4)
Or maybe the offseason is not over yet….sorry man, the negativity is blowing my mind.
We have a lot of good players, and unless many of them are hurt again/still, we are Jason Bay and one good starter away from being a contender again, in my opinion.
And for all of Cuban’s money, he has not come really close to winning a title. No way Wade was losing the one year they made the finals…and they have not gotten past the second round in four years.
And we have NO idea of how Cuban would spend in a league without a salary cap.
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-5:01pm at 5:01 pm (UTC -4)
I’m sorry, but I have to disagree.
A) The one good starter that was out there, is now off the board – without an offer from the Mets (that we know of)
B) Bay is sitting around and waiting for a better offer (read that, team)
C) Not getting in on Matt Holliday
D) Beltran’s knee that questionably needed microfracture surgery is a big question mark
E) Luis Castillo mirroring his production of last year is a bigger question mark
F) Daniel Murphy playing 1B and batting 5th is an embarassment
G) Our rotation 2-5 is a joke
H) Our bullpen thru K-Rod is a joke
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-5:10pm at 5:10 pm (UTC -4)
I’m pretty depressed but I’m not going to let that stop me from disagreeing with E, F & H.
E). Castillo’s outlier year was his 1 bad one, 2008. Otherwise he has been consistently a lot like the guy we saw in 2009 throughout his career, offensively. Defensively I think is where there is cause for worry.
F). You nor I nor anyone else really know what Murphy playing 1B is going to be like, there’s not much to go on, but every reason for pessimism is easily countered by one for optimism where Murphy and 1B are concerned. And there is little chance he bats 5th on a regular basis.
H). Feliciano is not a joke. Igarashi is a mystery, but a mystery who regularly hits 96 with his FB, plus has a very good slider and a 3rd pitch which is escaping me at the moment. Also, unlike with starting pitchers, there are still viable relievers out there who could be signed.
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-4:35pm at 4:35 pm (UTC -4)
On the “info that might interest the Mets front,” from MLBTR:
* Chico Harlan of the Washington Post says the Nats initially targeted Jon Garland, but Garland prefers to sign with a West Coast team. He should have some options if he’s willing to take a one-year deal in the $6-7MM range.
* MLB.com’s Bill Ladson tweets that the Nationals still have interest in free agent second baseman Orlando Hudson. Signing Hudson would mean keeping Cristian Guzman at shortstop.
So for those who suggest that Garland or Hudson might help the Mets, looks like there might be some difficulty in getting them.
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-4:40pm at 4:40 pm (UTC -4)
Yea, the Nats are real players this offseason. I hope the real estate market crashes again and the Wilpons sell. I’ve backed them for long enough. But they are not replacing any of the lost payroll. Our opening day lineup is going to be Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Murphy, Frenchy, Pagan, and Santos.
Which would be fine if our rotation was Santana, Lackey, Wolf, Pelfrey, Ollie. But our rotation is Santana, Maine, Pelf, Me, You.
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-4:45pm at 4:45 pm (UTC -4)
I guess now would be a bad time to tell you my arm hurts.
mikemattone
12/22/2009-4:51pm at 4:51 pm (UTC -4)
I topped off at 82-84 a few years ago, so I can take your spot if you can’t go…at least I throw harder than R.A. Dickey…another big time signing by Omar. Way to take the baseball buzz in New York away from Javy Vazquez…
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-4:56pm at 4:56 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t forget Igarashi.
Omar…far q.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-5:04pm at 5:04 pm (UTC -4)
Did you check out the YouTube clips of Igarashi?
He throws very hard, and with good movement.
Dickey is horrible and a joke.
But Igarashi looks very good.
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-5:06pm at 5:06 pm (UTC -4)
Igarashi is also coming off Tommy John surgery two years ago and playing in Japan. I’ll be optimistic about him when I see him compete here. I have no problem with that signing but you and I both know our problems are much deeper.
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-4:57pm at 4:57 pm (UTC -4)
Actually my guess is Omar has been in talks with Dickey for a few days now but was waiting for the Yanks to do something so he could sneak Dickey by without much notice.
If his name was R. A. Smith, or Jones, it might’ve worked.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-4:48pm at 4:48 pm (UTC -4)
Marquis, Olsen, Bruney, and Pudge?
Real players?
OMG!
mikemattone
12/22/2009-4:52pm at 4:52 pm (UTC -4)
Yea the Nats are “real players”…in the Bryce Harper Sweepstakes.
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-4:55pm at 4:55 pm (UTC -4)
Nats have at least tried to improve. Much more than I can say for the Mets.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-4:59pm at 4:59 pm (UTC -4)
When the season starts, I bet you will think very differently…..
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-5:02pm at 5:02 pm (UTC -4)
Well, the Mets aren’t going to get the pitcher they need (already missed that opportunity). Waiting on Bay will blow up in their face when the yanks get involved. Holliday will be off the board to either teh Cards or Yanks.
Nats have made more impact moves which tells me they are at least trying.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-5:05pm at 5:05 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!
Marquis, Olsen, Bruney, and Pudge are IMPACT moves?
LOL!
I give up.
Enjoy whining.
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-5:08pm at 5:08 pm (UTC -4)
Nats had hitting last year. It was their pitching that stunk. At least they tried to improve it. That’s all I’m saying. They tried.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-4:57pm at 4:57 pm (UTC -4)
Mr Mattone, I am VERY glad we can agree on that!
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-4:53pm at 4:53 pm (UTC -4)
Sarcasm. I’m not saying I would have gone after bruney, Pudge, and Olsen. I am saying that the Mets could have used Marquis (or Wolf).
We are basically going into next season with no chance of winning the world series. It’s like Omar and ownership aren’t even trying. If you want to rebuild, I hope you’re ready to rebuild with a 30 year old David Wright, Jose Reyes, and no Beltran. Because that’s how long it’ll take.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-5:01pm at 5:01 pm (UTC -4)
I just don’t get attitudes like this.
The season is over three months away….Bay and Holliday and many more are still out there.
Marquis stinks. Seriously–he is bad. He wins when he gets tons of run support.
If Omar signed Pudge, everyone would be whining at him signing another over-the-hill player.
I am a broken record, I know, but we were in or near first place every day in 2006, 2007, 2008, and the first half of 2009.
How can you think we are so far from contention?
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-5:05pm at 5:05 pm (UTC -4)
Because all of the other teams improved. They didn’t just pull ahead of us because our guys got hurt. They improved. That was even in an off year for Hamels. The Phillies lineup makes our lineup look seriously bad. Even their pitching staff blows ours away. It’s a mess dude. If you don’t see it, you are much more the optimist than I. I prefer being realistic though. This is maybe an d82 win team. Just enough to get the Wilpons 2.5-3MM at the gate.
mikemattone
12/23/2009-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
I disagree with Marquis. I think he can be a quality #4 starter, instead of throwing out Livan, Redding, Figgy, ect. I think the problem is unlike other teams, who do not publicly show their hand, and make moves to at least try and improve their team, the Mets openly say they are going after guys, and to many people (including myself) it seems they are doing this so when they do not bring in any impact players, they have already built up their “we tried to get guys” excuse. I know, I know, we’re not the Yankees; nevertheless, investing in talent now will pay for itself with filled seats in Citi Field, which will empty fast if this team isn’t winning. They could contend just by being healthy this year, but don’t you think that is a huge risk to take?
There's Always '10
12/22/2009-4:54pm at 4:54 pm (UTC -4)
Sure hope the Braves can stay close enough to the Phils to challenge them for the division title this year.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-5:16pm at 5:16 pm (UTC -4)
Hey TA10! Long time!
fongy2
12/22/2009-5:55pm at 5:55 pm (UTC -4)
Nice post above TA10!
We’ve been down this road with this Owner sooo many
times before. Good enough
to contend and draw crowds,
not good enough to win a
Championship. I’ve said it so
many times over the past couple years “Happy 2nd place
finishers”! THAT my friend is the mindset with The Wilpons
who I’ve always liked and respected until the last 2or3 yrs. Shame on them for not
being able to see a con-man
when its right i/f/o them.
And I’m not just talkin’ Bernie Madoff, Juunowatemsayin”?
Omar will try to sell the still gullible on Molina
and maybe Jon Garland as
our big bat and arm,once
this is all said and done.
Throw in a Blanco,Dickey
and maybe an Escobar and
listen to Omar stumble through
trying to convince everyone
that, with a healthy team
and a full spring training
together,i.e.no WBC this year
we should challange the Phils
for the Division.
What ever happened to Pitching
and Defense Omar???
stickguy
12/22/2009-6:11pm at 6:11 pm (UTC -4)
well, I think that, after the last few years, if the team springs too many leaks and fades out of playoff contention, it really will be Omar’s last stand. SO that is at least a change on their part (finally reaching the breaking point). Even if it is the wrong reason (ticket sales or public (media) perception)
But, to pick out 1 thing you said, if they do have a normal spring and a healthy team (whatever that ends up being), yes, they will challenge the phils, and certainly be very competitive for the WC.
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-5:03pm at 5:03 pm (UTC -4)
I suppose I’ve known this all along, but it was brought to my attention that the Mets have no significant contract coming off payroll next year, so unless they let Jose Reyes go by buying him out for half a mil maybe the reason the team is not rushing around spending money is because they need it next year too when Santana, Wright and if they keep him Reyes are all getting raises.
Not that this info makes me feel any better.
stickguy
12/22/2009-6:06pm at 6:06 pm (UTC -4)
I remember this discussion earlier in the off season. No chance Reyes doesnt have his option picked up (unless he becomes completely crippled or something!
it is after 2011 that they have the next big window (luis, ollie and Beltran).
another good reason to hang onto the higer level (closest to ML ready) prospects now. They are likely going to need some of them to play!
I am actually OK with a relatively stand pat off season, if the farm remains intact. If nothing else, it likely means a cleaning of the FO and managerial houses. Not that they should do nothing, but rather the Plan C of some 1 year contracts to plug the holes.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-6:13pm at 6:13 pm (UTC -4)
KRod’s contract comes off after 2011 too no?
stickguy
12/22/2009-9:11pm at 9:11 pm (UTC -4)
There is an eyewatering vesting option (something like 17mill) for the 4th year (2012). Based on some combo of games finished I think.
GravediggerHebner
12/22/2009-9:53pm at 9:53 pm (UTC -4)
Eye-watering is an excellent phrase for it. Here’s the language according to Cot’s:
* 2012 option ($17.5 million)becomes guaranteed with:
o 55 games finished in 2011, and
o 100 games finished in 2010-11, and
o doctors declare Rodriguez healthy after 2011
* Rodriguez receives $3.5M termination buyout if 2012 option does not become guaranteed
fongy2
12/22/2009-6:16pm at 6:16 pm (UTC -4)
I agreeStick!
I’m even more worried about a desperate Omar
then I am A relaxed Omar. No trading any of the kids,i.e.Murphy,Niese,
Parnell,FMart,Davis,Meijia,Holt,Thole until
we at least know exactly what we have in them. The exception
is of course in a deal for a true high-
end player like Crawford or Haren.
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-6:08pm at 6:08 pm (UTC -4)
Yup. No significant money coming off payroll next year. So that’s why Omar insists on 1 year deals on pitchers and Molina. There’s a good FA pool next year and I’m sure the Met would want to get in on some of them.
Unless Reyes has a significantly bad season, there’s no way his option does not get picked up.
CaseStreet
12/22/2009-5:29pm at 5:29 pm (UTC -4)
So MLBTR predicted Mets would sign Holliday, Wolf and Penny.
They also said Mets might end up with LaRoche, Garland, Molina, and Marquis.
Wolf, Penny and Marquis are gone.
Holliday, LaRoche, Garland and Molina are still available.
So, if you can get Holliday at 6/100 ($16.6M), LaRoche at 3/21 ($7M), Garland at 1/$7M, and Molina at 2/10 ($5M).
That’s about $35.6M
The Most Holliday has been offered is 5/82.5 from the Cards and Boston, so maybe the 6th year does it.
LaRoche and Garland may still be hanging around March at a lower price.
Molina doesn’t have any other offers other than our 5/10. There’s no need to give him more.
You can get rid of LaRoche and you are down to $28.6M or you can try to get Sheets or Bedard for that amount.
Maybe there would be some money left over for a mid-season acquisition.
What do you guys think? Would Holliday, Garland, Molina and either LaRoche, Sheets or Bedard seem like a good offseason?
DNDJohan aka kistics
12/22/2009-5:54pm at 5:54 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know if you want to commit to a 35yr old catcher to a 5 year deal. Granted that it’s pretty cheap. lol
on a serious note, I don’t know if Mets are willing to go more than 1 year on 1B, since Ike Davis will be the next Pujols patrolling 1B at Citi.
asod75
12/22/2009-6:13pm at 6:13 pm (UTC -4)
The only way they commit three years to a first baseman is if they plan to move Davis in a package for a #2 starter. Outside of that, it wouldn’t make much sense. Although that offseason haul would certainly make the Mets better than last year. Good enough for the playoffs, not sure, but I’m just anxious for something, anything to happen. Besides the acquisition of R.A. Dickey of course (although I’ll admit, could be fun to see a knuckleballer pitching, as long as there’s someone that can catch it).
fongy2
12/22/2009-6:17pm at 6:17 pm (UTC -4)
Davis looks to be alot closer to LaRoche
than Pujols my friend.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-6:53pm at 6:53 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I will say that we could have used Darren Oliver for 3.5 million.
trs86
12/22/2009-7:31pm at 7:31 pm (UTC -4)
Damn it’s over, the rational side has lost and has been taken over by a bunch of impatient whiners. When it even dominates the post here then it’s a sad day. Glad I am going away for a few days. My hope is now that while I am away Bay signs with the Yanks, Holliday with the Cards, Hudson with the Nats, Garland with the Dodgers. Hopefully at that point all the whiners will have jumped off the ledge and came back as Yankees fans.
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-7:42pm at 7:42 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah right, like you can stay away for a few days.
fongy2
12/22/2009-7:46pm at 7:46 pm (UTC -4)
No he’ll go away and
we’ll end updumping Ollie and Castillo
AND getting Crawford
and Haren in trades.
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-7:54pm at 7:54 pm (UTC -4)
And you know who will be posting the Breaking News? TRS of course
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-7:48pm at 7:48 pm (UTC -4)
Not targeting you either, for what it is worth….there were just too many commenters here the last 24 hours souring the place with negativity.
I am not targeting any of my original TRDMB colleagues in the slightest; hope you realize that Mr North.
You be cool and have a great holiday.
trs86
12/22/2009-7:59pm at 7:59 pm (UTC -4)
I will have to. LOL. No internet.
fongy2
12/22/2009-7:44pm at 7:44 pm (UTC -4)
And Merry Christmas to you
too my friend!
Be safe, patient and kind
in your travels and please
don’t about my b*tchin’,
for as Case could tell ya,
I still have The Phillies!
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-7:46pm at 7:46 pm (UTC -4)
I am not targeting my frustration at you AT ALL.
I meant what I said about you in my holiday post; I meant every word of it.
But today was too much.
Love ya Fong and I sincerely hope you and Mrs. Fong have the most wonderful holiday and New Year!
fongy2
12/22/2009-7:55pm at 7:55 pm (UTC -4)
Same to you my friend!
I in no way thought anyone
was talking about me.
I’m not exactly a whiner.
A complainer
maybe BUT not a whiner!
As you know,if
Omar did nothing else,
as soon as S.T. began,I’d find a way to convince myself
we have a chance.
If I don’t see you on here until then…
Have a very Merry Christmas!
Be safe,happy
and kind…for
what Ghandi and
Marley made clear in all
their teachings, What
goes around, comes around.
Be well,fellow
longtime fanatico.
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-7:56pm at 7:56 pm (UTC -4)
well said
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-7:58pm at 7:58 pm (UTC -4)
Same to you my friend!
And much like the Gov of CA, I’ll be baaaaack…..
metsfan4decades
12/22/2009-7:54pm at 7:54 pm (UTC -4)
What? The Phillies?
Did I miss something, Fongy?
fongy2
12/22/2009-7:58pm at 7:58 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah Case has
been calling me
AND at times my
friend Kingman
closet Phillie
fans because
we respect and don’t hate them
like we hate
the yankees.
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-8:00pm at 8:00 pm (UTC -4)
True whenever Fongy would compare the Mets to the Phillies the hairs on my back would just stand on its ends.
metsfan4decades
12/22/2009-8:01pm at 8:01 pm (UTC -4)
Ah, I get it now. I remember those ‘debates’.
And yeah, I’m in the camp of don’t know how anyone can possibly root for the Phillies, even though the opposition was the Yankees – who I hate. I just hate the Phillies more right now – LOL.
CaseStreet
12/23/2009-12:23am at 12:23 am (UTC -4)
I’ve never called my esteemed colleague from the Emerald City a Phillie Fan.
You, on the other hand, defend the Phillies whenever you get an opportunity.
Phillies Suck
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-7:45pm at 7:45 pm (UTC -4)
Agree 100%.
Go over to Metsblog–it was more positive than here today.
Nonstop childish whining.
I will also be largely staying away for a while.
Life is far too beautiful and far too short to spend time being exposed to nonsense like what took over this place today.
fongy2
12/22/2009-7:48pm at 7:48 pm (UTC -4)
Easy for you to say…
Your Mariners just
dumped a Dickey on us!
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-7:52pm at 7:52 pm (UTC -4)
I would say that that is the worst signing I can remember…he is AWFUL!
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-7:53pm at 7:53 pm (UTC -4)
LOL
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-7:56pm at 7:56 pm (UTC -4)
If Gooden had the K Korner what would Dickey have?
fongy2
12/22/2009-8:03pm at 8:03 pm (UTC -4)
We could go in alot of directions with that of course
BUT I don’t think it would matter
b/c
he’d need some K’s b/f
we could post some signs with photos
of Andy Dick on them.
Hey, wait!
Did I just say that?
That is one obnoxious Dick though!
mikemattone
12/23/2009-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
I know I’m whining but when I’m spending out of the backside to take my little brother to a game I would like to see my team isn’t paying R.A. Dickey any amount of money. If anything, R.A. Dickey should pay the Mets to be on the minor league roster.
wannybackstra
12/23/2009-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Somebody has to play for the AAA team, no?
metsfan4decades
12/22/2009-7:53pm at 7:53 pm (UTC -4)
LOL – come on, you know there is no way the posters over here are anywhere near as bad as some of the posters on that ‘other’ blog.
My mindset is there is absolutely no way this team can be as bad as last year.
I still think we’re a couple of pieces away from contending. So far, I see the Phils, Braves and Marlins with missing pieces as well.
Let’s Go Mets.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-8:00pm at 8:00 pm (UTC -4)
MF4D, you are one of the VERY best and most valued commenters on here.
I hope you and your hubby and your family and your doggie have a most wonderful holiday season!
metsfan4decades
12/22/2009-8:03pm at 8:03 pm (UTC -4)
And same to you and yours Kingman. Happy and Healthy New Year as well.
Here’s hoping we all get what we want under the Xmas tree. Which to me right now concerning all things Mets would be a contending team in the NL east in ’10….
fongy2
12/22/2009-8:05pm at 8:05 pm (UTC -4)
Dude!!…….
Otto,the wonderdog(photo
noted above)
gets no love
from The Original Brock Kingman???
What the hey?!
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-8:08pm at 8:08 pm (UTC -4)
What???
Alert Animal Planet quick!!!
Till then, Did you think of renaming your dog Dickey?
fongy2
12/22/2009-8:18pm at 8:18 pm (UTC -4)
It would be unfair,like mocking him…He’s got no balls. Seriously!
I’m still pissed at my wife about that one!
It’s just not right.
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-8:19pm at 8:19 pm (UTC -4)
That explains the look on his face.
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-8:26pm at 8:26 pm (UTC -4)
My bro has a Shih Apso I believe and (he how do I say this) Didn’t have an avenue to relieve himself (wink wink) so much so that he got backed up and developed an infection. The vet told them they will eventually have to neuter him so this doesn’t happen again.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-8:09pm at 8:09 pm (UTC -4)
OMG I am sorry!
I love dogs!
Otto gets all the love I can give a dog through the internet!!
That photo is priceless.
Looking forward to that game in Philly next summer.
fongy2
12/22/2009-8:15pm at 8:15 pm (UTC -4)
I score the tix and your in the gate my friend.Later!,my services are being request for”last min.Xmas shopping…for the 3rd time since sunday. So, I’m outta here!
Good night all and as always…Lets Go Mets!
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-8:16pm at 8:16 pm (UTC -4)
LGM 2 U 2
metsfan4decades
12/22/2009-10:36pm at 10:36 pm (UTC -4)
I didn’t know that was a pic of your dog. He’s adorable.
Otto? Great name – that was my grandpa’s name!
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-8:15pm at 8:15 pm (UTC -4)
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Anyone can tell that Dog has special written all over his face.
Why he’s a regular Rin Tin Tin.
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-8:23pm at 8:23 pm (UTC -4)
Mr North Jersey
12/22/2009-8:05pm at 8:05 pm (UTC -4)
The difference is here there is no censorship over there MC only allows a few of his fans post at a time.
Nothing worse than watching a Mets fan with MC Syndrome. Just Lost, looking where they can speak their mind without the fear of losing their membership.
fongy2
12/22/2009-8:16pm at 8:16 pm (UTC -4)
Your comment is awaiting moderation!
asod75
12/22/2009-11:11pm at 11:11 pm (UTC -4)
MC “English is my third language” moment of the day: Role the dice…..
stickguy
12/22/2009-9:52pm at 9:52 pm (UTC -4)
late thought for the night (in case anyone is still reading). I missed most of the posts today, and it sounds like a good thing I did!
Anyway, this is kind of my response to the “my god, Omar, do something, the mets are going to finish 8th in the division” crowd.
I think the nervous nellie/sky is falling crowd is going a tad overboard. This team does still have a very strong talent nucleus. They were also in 1st place during June, and even through July were right in the hunt for the division and WC. Until the injuries overwhelmed them. So, you can’t write the team off, even without major moves.
Also, they HAVE made some “big moves”. Just compared to the 2nd half team, they have effectively traded Wilson Valdez, Sullivan and Redding for Jose Reyes, A healthy Beltran, and a healthy Maine. Yes, beltran and Maine made it back in September, but that was more like ST for them, to prove they could do it (and they both were reported to be fine physically).
And frankly, that “trade” added way more talent than what the yankees brought in, or the phils, or the Braves.
So yes, they do need to make a few moves (but really for support/complimentary players), but there is still time for that.
Sorry, but I can’t write off the team for 2010 already just based on lack of moves by 12/22.
I think Fongy said something profound earlier (us old guys gotta stick together): Even if they do nothing else, I will still convince myself in ST that the team is good enough to be a winner (something along those lines).
Fits right into the theory of waiting until 4/1 and the team is set to evaluate what you think it can do!
Kingman 26
12/22/2009-10:29pm at 10:29 pm (UTC -4)
+ Many
Stick I hope you and your family have the marvelous holiday and New Year that you deserve.
Thanks for being one of the wisest and coolest heads on here.
stickguy
12/22/2009-11:25pm at 11:25 pm (UTC -4)
thanks, and same to you and yours.
an off the wall prediction: Omar is going to put a Chapman in your stocking for X-mas.
metsfan4decades
12/22/2009-10:39pm at 10:39 pm (UTC -4)
Very good points. I think many of my fellow Met fans keep forgetting a healthy, Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Johan, KRod and the others is some pretty good talent.
LGM in ’10!
stickguy
12/22/2009-11:27pm at 11:27 pm (UTC -4)
maybe once all the fatalists write off the team and give up all hope for the season (sometime in mid-January!), they will relax, and just enjoy the season.
and without any real expectations (or pressure), the team can have a better than expected big year.
Kind of like 2006.
darknova306
12/23/2009-1:14am at 1:14 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, but who are you to say all these guys will come back 100% healthy and productive and won’t get hurt again? To me those “big moves” are just “big question marks”. Anyway, I’ll of course re-evaluate when ST starts, but I need those guys to all show they’re fully healthy. The whole season rides on that.
stickguy
12/22/2009-11:43pm at 11:43 pm (UTC -4)
Hmm, I said it jokingly to Kong, but maybe Omar is going to pull off a shocker and get Chapman?
It kind of fits his MO to make at least 1 big splashy FA signing, and he is the biggest pitching name out there.
Hey, he signed OLlie based on LH potential, he should love this guy!
Worth more than most IFA signings too, since he is way closer (and more likely to hit) than some 16 YO that has never been off the island.
Not that I think he should be in the rotation next year (at least ont at the beginning).
But, as part of a multi-pronged attack? Makes getting a garland type easier to swallow.
Heck, screw Bay (I really worry about th edefensive aspect), and sign Sheets (if he proves he can ptich), garland and chapman, then fill in with a cheaper catcher (Barajas) and a RH corner bat to help out murphy and in LF, and good to go. Mostly.
stickguy
12/22/2009-11:44pm at 11:44 pm (UTC -4)
hell with it, go all out.
trade with cinci for arroyo and philips. Dump Castillo, even if it means cutting him. Then sign chapman and 1 more filler arm.
Mr North Jersey
12/23/2009-12:29am at 12:29 am (UTC -4)
Whaaaaa?
Que te pasa hombre, estas loco?
CaseStreet
12/23/2009-12:36am at 12:36 am (UTC -4)
Tough Day!
While the Rich Get Richer, the
Mets Get Dick!
The season is not lost,
Omar is not sleeping,
bring back the core, and
a mid-season acquisition.