I was over at the The ‘Ropolitans and saw they posted a link to a video over at NewsDay that showed Alomar being slighted at not getting into the Hall Of Fame. I have to say that at 15 seconds in there is a shot of Alomar teared up at not making it that says how much it hurt him at getting slighted but that is not why I am posting this. If you see the shot of his son at 24 seconds into the video if you are a Father you will instantly wish to take all those that didn’t vote for Alomar and make them watch this clip and then recast their vote to see if it was worth whatever grudge they may have had as to not voting Alomar in.
Whatever your opinion is of Roberto Alomar and as a Mets fan my opinion is that I can say he never did anything for me but is he a Hall Of Fame 2nd baseman? – YES
33 comments
GravediggerHebner
1/7/2010-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
Like so many of the topics we discuss here at TRDMB, whether one is a HOFer or not is somewhat subjective. If there are specific rules or guidelines for it I am unaware of them and would appreciate some education on that.
It is my subjective opinion that Roberto Alomar is a HOFer. I don’t think whether someone’s child cries or not is terribly relevant, but that’s just my personal opinion.
I am not a voter, but if I were, I would almost certainly have voted for him. The reason I say “almost” is because if I were a voter I would likely be spending some quality time in my life with other voters, and they might be able to convince me of the rationale behind not electing people in their first year of eligibility, or electing them unanimously, or things of that ilk.
Even having said I might’ve waited a year due to this inclusive, group mentality crap in my previous paragraph, I certainly would’ve voted for him in his second year of eligibility.
GravediggerHebner
1/7/2010-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
The Toronto Blue Jays have claimed Brian Bocock on waivers from the San Francisco Giants. Looks like the Giants got Bocock blocked.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2010-3:02pm at 3:02 pm (UTC -4)
Understood, subjective is definitely a part of the game but if we are going to sit around here and discuss why Alomar is not a Hall of Famer then the bar for it has been set so high that I fear no one will ever reach it.
The reason I say it is that The H.O.F. in it’s most simple form for deciding is was he among the best 2nd baseman to play the game during his time. The answer to which is yes and I am not even looking at his numbers that is simply based on having watched him play the game. I’m sure if I sat down and looked at the numbers I would have a open and shut case.
Which brings me to the writing of the post, I know baseball is at it’s best when you debate the merits of a player. We live on that here but I don’t believe Alomar not getting in was the case here. I have no evidence to back that up except for why else would a player of Alomar’s caliber not make it in?
This is not the 1st time a player deserving of the Hall Of Fame didn’t get in and I am sure it won’t be the last but we all know it has been discussed in the past how voters hold grudges against players and deny them entry based on a personal bias and sadly I feel that is the case here.
The son factor is just an attempt at trying to add humanity to the discussion of watching a son look up to his dad that he considers his hero and feel the pain of watching his father denied the recognition he deserves.
fongy2
1/7/2010-3:08pm at 3:08 pm (UTC -4)
Understood and agreed, mostly.
I don’t think there’s any doubt that the writers held
a grudge for yrs against Jim Rice,hence the reason it took
so long for him to get in.
b/t/w, I have always wondered about Lance Parrish. How could
a guy who was one of the 2or3 best Catchers of his time get
so few votes,let alone not be
in The Hall?
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2010-3:12pm at 3:12 pm (UTC -4)
True and though I never got to watch him (maybe Metsfan4decades can chime in) but Gil Hodges is another one that many feel is derved and has yet to get in.
fongy2
1/7/2010-3:16pm at 3:16 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah,it’s very
strange AND with Hodges from all we’ve
ever heard,he was loved by
everyone.
GravediggerHebner
1/7/2010-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
Humanity is important in anything, I can’t argue with your reasons for your post or your point in making it.
But as I referred to above and Fongy touches on below, the voters have certain thoughts and feelings on the idea of electing players unanimously, and on electing players in their first year of eligibility. They are the voters, if they wish to vote this way I can’t do anything about it. I don’t think the “spitting incident” or his horrible drop off with the Mets are why he wasn’t elected, I think it was these other ideas about first year and so on.
I feel confident that Alomar will win election next year to the HOF.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2010-3:14pm at 3:14 pm (UTC -4)
I see your point also I don’t think it would of affected me so much had I not seen his son tear up the way he did.
GravediggerHebner
1/7/2010-3:20pm at 3:20 pm (UTC -4)
The tears of a child are a powerful thing. I would have to be pretty heartless and soulless to suggest otherwise. I hear you.
Where this voter idea of not electing someone in their first year of eligibility becomes tragic is if something happens to any of the parties involved over the course of the next year. If God forbid the player dies, or their parent or child does, between this first and second year, it’s undeniably horrific for them and their loved ones that they weren’t around to either be elected to or to see their loved one be elected to the HOF.
I don’t know the history of HOF voting to know if players or their loved ones have died while waiting to be elected. I would guess it must have happened at least once. I doubt it changes the group mentality of the writers as regards when they elect someone however.
fongy2
1/7/2010-3:20pm at 3:20 pm (UTC -4)
That’s a good
thing man.
Says alot about
you.
fongy2
1/7/2010-3:04pm at 3:04 pm (UTC -4)
Peter Gammons stated on The MLB Network that he had spoken to Alomar for a few mins just after word came
down and although he said he was
disapointed, he was very upbeat and
was sure he’d get in soon enough.
To me, this is a non-story. I actually respect the tradition that
is still upheld by many writers
who only vote for the absolute best
of the best, the first time on the ballot.
He’ll make it next year as likely
will Larkin so, what’s the big deal?
He was a great player, no doubt.
I remember him all the way back to
when he came up and was w/o question
the best player at his position
throughout the 90s.
That said, he was awful with us.
I guess if he wasn’t, I’d likely
be a little pissed that “one of our
guys” didn’t get in immediately,
like Piazza should.
I asked this yesterday and am still curious how the players who benefitted from the steroid abuse
of others will fare once on the
ballot?
Mostly, I’m thinking Jeff Kent, who
numbers wise was a HOFer.
How much did It help him all those yrs hitting right behind Bonds?
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2010-3:10pm at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
That is true also about the 1st time a player is on the ballot. Time will tell if that was the case I guess.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2010-3:23pm at 3:23 pm (UTC -4)
This is off topic but did anyone read this quote from MC’s blog regarding the Mets possible interest in John Smoltz?
“I think the Mets have legit concerns about Francisco Rodriguez, and I would think a pitcher like Smoltz could not only pick up slack in the rotation, but he could also step in and finish games.”
Am I missing something here? Legit concerns? WTF is MC trying to stir things up?
fongy2
1/7/2010-3:30pm at 3:30 pm (UTC -4)
I think his 2nd half last yr is something you have to keep an eye oncoming into this season BUT I don’t know how
“concerned” we should be about it.If at his age with his contract he’s suddendly
on the downside,we’re screwed!
Because there’s not a chance in the world that if healthy,
he blows 6or7 leads the first
half or so of the season,
that he’ll be pulled as the Closer.No chance, if healthy
The Mets will(and should)try
and let him work his way through it. Like I said though
if that does happen, with all
the other “real” concerns this
team has, we’ll be screwed.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2010-3:38pm at 3:38 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, I know he had a bad 2nd half but so did everyone else and most of it was chalked up to all the earlier injuries causing the Mets to be out of it early and that combined with KROD’s lack of work.
MC is talking like there is some injury he is aware of.
If he ever did have an injury then like you said we are definitely screwed.
CaseStreet
1/7/2010-3:33pm at 3:33 pm (UTC -4)
I think Myers fits that role better than Smoltz.
fongy2
1/7/2010-3:41pm at 3:41 pm (UTC -4)
Barring injury,no matter how he pitches,
KRod is our closer.
When you have a resume and a contract
like his, you don’t
lose your job no matter how bad a streak you’re having.
I wouldn’t mind Myers though and especially
over Smoltz…at this
point in their careers.
I heard though that Myers wants to sign as
a starter.
GravediggerHebner
1/7/2010-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know from what angle MC is suggesting that, but I can say that lots of people, probably the Mets too, had concerns about KRod even before 2009 and nothing that happened in 2009 made those concerns go away.
I got into lots of arguments with people, mostly at MLBTR but also some at Metsblog, about signing KRod. I wanted him, and was not shy about saying so, but many others wanted Brian Fuentes instead. Most of my reasons were “intangibles” like KRod had post-season experience and was only 26 years old, and Fuentes had lost his job as closer more than once and been “reduced” to set up man.
The people who argued against me used more tangible reasons in their reservations about KRod. They pointed out that his K/9 was consistently going down, his BB/9 was consistently going up (therefore his K/BB ratio was consistently going down), his WHIP was consistently going up, and perhaps most importantly his FB speed and FB percentage were going down.
Basically lots of statistics that people look at to see how well a pitcher is performing beyond saves or wins, for KRod were in a multiple year downward spiral. With the Mets, most of those stats continued to get worse in 2009. The only ones that didn’t, and the ones I luckily place the most faith in, is that his FB speed and percentages went back up with the Mets.
Mostly people seemed to believe that KRod was injured because his FB was slower and therefore he wasn’t throwing it as much, but last year went against that.
Otherwise, he always was and continues to be a “heart attack” closer in that lots of guys get on base against him. I just think that will always be the case. My intangible hope is that on a winning team, in a save situation, the importance and adrenaline kick in and he finishes the job as he had with the Angels. Last year, after June the team was horrible so I write off some of his blown saves because he had “less adrenaline.” Maybe I’m nuts, we will see if the team is in the race all year whether he’s “back” or if he’s still in decline.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2010-3:50pm at 3:50 pm (UTC -4)
KROD pre Castillo dropping the ball was as dominant as any closer in MLB during that same stretch last year. Any concerns people had going into the season should of been wiped away right there or else how do they explain his 1st half?
His 2nd half I will admit had me scratching my head but so did Wright’s lack of HR Power and I will chalk up both to the same thing one of the worst seasons in Mets history.
If last season was payment to the baseball gods for something the Mets getting a new stadium then not only did they get payment but they got it with interest also.
Not that I believe in such things. (Gulp)
fongy2
1/7/2010-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed! I never
felt relaxed at the end of games as I did
with KRod the
first 3 months
of the yr.
In alot of cases,guys K #s
go down NOT b/c they can’t strike guys out
anymore BUT b/c
they learn that
they do HAVE to. It seemed that way the first half with
KRod and I hope
that his terrible 2nd half was just a combo of how bad and out of it the team was
and maybe some
fatigue over how much he pitched the
yr before in real tight situations.
I know most of you don’t want to hear it BUT
I think having
a normal ST and
not having to
be so pumped as
he and most others were for
and during The WBC,so early in spring should also be
helpful.
wannybackstra
1/7/2010-4:14pm at 4:14 pm (UTC -4)
I’d take Smoltz and put him into the mix for the 8th inning with Igarashi and Escobar.
Back in the NL he was pretty good for St. Loo, with 38 IP and 40Ks, 36H and just 9 walks. His problem in Boston was that he gave up 59 hits in 40 innings while the rest of his ratios were about the same. That suggests to me that he was probably just struggling with his command and had to get the rust out.
At more than a K per inning with no walks, it seems like he has something left.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2010-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
I hate to admit this because I’d like to believe I am above such things but after the Glavine years I don’t think I am ready for Smoltz.
wannybackstra
1/7/2010-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, it’s always nauseating to resort to such measures.
The flipside would be knowing how the Braves would feel seeing him win in NY. How much did it suck to see Cone, Gooden and Strawberry winning World Series in the Bronx?
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2010-4:31pm at 4:31 pm (UTC -4)
I felt bad not for them of course. They will always have a special place in my memories but I felt bad for me for the selfish reason that I wanted their 1st time winning a ring to be with the Mets.
I think of Wright and Reyes and wonder if they will ever win a ring and will it be with the Mets?
CaseStreet
1/7/2010-4:42pm at 4:42 pm (UTC -4)
One for each finger.
GravediggerHebner
1/7/2010-4:39pm at 4:39 pm (UTC -4)
I would welcome Smoltz assuming he embraces the role and comes reasonably priced (whatever that means).
CaseStreet
1/7/2010-4:40pm at 4:40 pm (UTC -4)
Pedro had similar numbers in Philly
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/7/2010-4:44pm at 4:44 pm (UTC -4)
That’s an interesting idea. Although I have full confidence in KRod, there’s no one to close in case he goes down. Smoltz could be a cheaper solution.
But is anyone pursuing him? If not, I’d wait till he is really needed.
wannybackstra
1/7/2010-4:59pm at 4:59 pm (UTC -4)
According to Mattsblog via MLBTR, the Mets, Philly and Washington are all interested.
Beats me how the heck MC would know this.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/7/2010-5:14pm at 5:14 pm (UTC -4)
He has his inside SNY connection
Kingman 26
1/7/2010-5:48pm at 5:48 pm (UTC -4)
Well Wanny, you as well as anyone know the magnitude of tremendousness with which Matt gathers, and FROM what he gathers he often ascertains amusing facts which he shares with us after, well, maybe changing the spelling on a thing or two to cleverly disguise identities and protect the innocent.
oleosmirf
1/7/2010-4:53pm at 4:53 pm (UTC -4)
im sure Smoltz would do fine against the Nats, Braves and Marlins.
stickguy
1/7/2010-5:43pm at 5:43 pm (UTC -4)
No to smotlz. Please. I actually would still like to have Myers as the extra man added. Funny that you almost never see his name mentioned, so maybe he becomes the forgotten man you get cheap?
Can start, set up or close if needed. A good thing to have.
I was one of the worry warts about K rod. Must be a conditioned reflex from having watched Met 9th innings for too long.
My big fear is the 4th year. I foget the vesting requirements, but if he is going to fall apart, please let it be before the Mets are stuck with a damaged RP making 17 million 2012!