As it appears the starting position players may already be determined (pending your opinion of Murphy or any potential dump of Castillo) who is manning the bench for the 2010 Mets?
Obviously Cora has a spot. I would also assume that Blanco has the backup catcher slot. Barring a trade Pagan will most likely be an OF reserve.
OK so Cora, Blanco and Pagan. Well that was easy… uh we need at least 5? Oh… OK so last year we had Santos, Tatis, Cora, Pagan, Reed and Sullivan with appearances by a host of others.
Right now Omar has done a good job it seems of finding the host of others for 2010 by signing Chris Coste, Russ Adams, Mike Cervenak, Mike Hessman, trading for Chris Carter at the end of last season as well as retaining the rights to Anderson Hernandez. I am sure there may be some I have missed. I would also think that guys like Evans or Bowman could also get a look to take the Tatis role.
So are there 2 out of that group you would be willing to go to war with?
Personally if I was Omar I would continue to do what Omar seems to do best. Finding that low risk diamond in the rough that surprises everyone. Who will this year’s Valentin, Tatis be? My vote is for Ty Wiggington. Wiggington did not have a good year in Baltimore but we know from previous experience he is a hard nosed player. He provides pop as well as Tatis like versatility. He is owed 3.5 million next season but will have limited playing time in Baltimore, something he was very upset with last season. As a RH hitter he becomes a natural guy to give Murphy a day off if indeed Murphy is our starting 1B but also gives us the 2B, 3B, LF backup as well. Perhaps Baltimore would be willing to pay half of his salary to rid themselves of a potential problem? Otherwise, names still on the FA list that intrigue me:
Hank Blalock: Still young still has good power potential. Problem is he is left handed and is most likely looking to start. Has played 1B and 3B.
Nomar: Nomar is contemplating retirement but still for a bench player you could do much worse. The guy knows how to win and could become a mentor to some of our players in need. He can’t play much defense anymore but is still more able than Julio Franco was at the time. Perhaps the chance at competing again rejuvenates the 36 year old.
Garko: A TRDM favorite. Had a down year last year. My fear is that he may still be looking for too much cash. I also have to wonder in my mind if in a platoon he is that much more valuable than Nick Evans.
Huff: Also had a very down year last year based on his standards. Similar to Blalock he is a LH hitter who does not offer an upgrade over Murphy.
Adam Kennedy: My sleeper pick. Had a very good rebound year last year posting a 101 OPS+ while playing 1B, 2B, 3B, RF. He is left handed however, but I would not think about him as a platoon guy anyway. Just a solid guy to have on the bench.
Melvin Mora: Mora’s name has also been rumored on various sites including TRDM. He does fit the bill of a guy who can play multiple positions who is coming off of a down year. His OPS went from .826 in 2008 to .679 in 2009 in a year that was filled with controversy for him. Perhaps in a limited role his ability to play every position but catcher would be very useful.
Alfredo Amezaga: Certainly does not solve any power issues but the guy does fit the standard of speed and defense. He has posted average or above defensive stats at multiple positions including SS. The switch hitting flea did not play much last year due to injury but in my opinion would be more valuable than Ahern.
Rocco Baldelli: Has posted an OPS above .740 every year of his career but one. RH OF coming off a year in Boston. He did actually play 3 innings of 3B last year for what it’s worth. (nothing) He could provide some insurance against a Frenchy decline.
Endy Chavez: Everyone’s favorite hero. When healthy gives you 2 things, defense and uh.. defense.
Jermaine Dye: Where oh where will this guy end up? The guy can’t really play much defense anymore but DH spots are running thin. He has said to be willing to try out 1B. He would also give some protection against a Frenchy demise.
Jerry Hairston Jr: Struggled a little in NY to build off his great 2008. Still his versatility makes him a plus. Played 6 positions last season.
The Xman: I still feel he would be perfect for this team as a platoon guy with Murphy as well as an OF rotation guy. However, if his asking price is rumored to be too high for the Yankees….
Marcus Thames: Another sleeper in my opinion. Has always posted uh.. splits to say the least. Can play 1B and OF while hitting for power to say the least.
Any names I may have missed? How would you finish off the bench if you were Omar?
114 comments
dirtysanchez
1/8/2010-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
good question as the bench often times just gets overlooked. I like the xman as well but ive heard he wont even be ready in time for ST and like you said he wants alot of $$. I like Garko and Kennedy.
njstuckintx
1/8/2010-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
Would love seeing the Xman back in the saddle, but agree that his price will be too high.
For my bench, I’d have Cora, Blanco, Pagan, Endy (or Evans for $ saving purposes) & Murphy (as Blalock would be starting 1B).
trs86
1/8/2010-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t see starting Blalock over Murphy. Blalock’s .736 OPS was even lower than Murphy’s. Not to mention he’s not exactly a solid 1B.
njstuckintx
1/8/2010-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
That was a down year for him, and I like his pop and 3B ability. That said, my statement on the Xman would be ideal, but $ poses a prob. I have no problem starting Murph.
But knowing we won’t get everything we want, I’d take what I wrote if it means we get some pitching. Cora for middle INF, Blanco for C, Endy for OF and Pinch Runner, Pagan for OF and definitely NOT pinch runner
, Murph (or Blalock if you feel better that way) for 1B.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
It’s hard for me to respond to this without tons of caveats since the team’s starting C and 1B are at best unsettled. I would want to formulate my bench based on what I felt was going to be happening primarily at those positions.
So before I go into who I want to fill my bench I’m going to say that I’m filling it with these two assumptions in mind: Bengie Molina will be the starting C and Carlos Delgado will be the starting 1B.
As you state we have Cora, Blanco and Pagan. Cora LH MIF, Blanco RH C, Pagan SW OF.
A corner IF is the obvious missing piece. I assume Wright will more likely stay healthy than Delgado will so I want this person to be a capable 1B, able to best case fill in once every week or two to rest Delgado, worst case start if Delgado goes down, and I would prefer they be RH to spell Delgado against tough LHP. Of all the people you name, Garko meets these qualifications best IMO. Would he come here knowing that he may not play a lot? I can’t say, but I know he’s the guy I’d want if I were putting the team together.
That leaves one spot. I feel like the starting lineup is heavily RH (yes there are many SW but the only true LH is Delgado) and I would like this last person to be LH, and I would also like them to be as positionally versatile as possible. Of all those you mention, Adam Kennedy best fits the bill, but he isn’t truly much of an OF. I am willing to go with Jerry Hairston Jr. for this last slot as well, even though he’s RH, and of course although I have been outspoken about turnover from last year’s roster, I would take Tatis back as well.
So for that last spot I guess I’m not really giving you an answer, but I would hope it’s one of Kennedy, Hairston Jr. or Tatis.
trs86
1/8/2010-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
Problem is Garko does not help our lack of 3B backup. Also I would venture that IF Delgado is signed then Murphy would be just as good of a backup as Garko. Obviously the handed issue get in the way but it would also depend if Murphy was sent back to AAA.
I agree on Kennedy but with your bench of Garko and Pagan, I see no need for “much” of an OF.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
Well Garko is not “much” of an OF either IMO.
I believe for a short period (such as 1 game of rest a month for Wright, or worst case finish a game before someone gets called up from Buffalo for the next game) that either Kennedy, Hairston Jr. or Tatis can play 3B.
trs86
1/8/2010-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
And you guys know I still like Tatis but I did not want to turn this into yet another Tatis debate.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
Corner IF backup would be Murphy. No?
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
Not on “my” roster, no. If Delgado is the starting 1B I either have Murphy in AAA learning the craft of utility man, or I have traded him.
trs86
1/8/2010-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
AH, this I agree with. But not sure the Mets would see it that way. To me if Delgado is signed then Murphy is on the pine.
metsfan4decades
1/8/2010-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
But if we sign Delgado and trade Murphy, what happens if Delgado goes down? IDK but to me, you almost have to keep Murphy if signing Delgado.
What I hate about that is neither Delgado nor Murphy can really play another position so we essentially have two guys on that 25 man roster who can only play that same position.
What to do, what to do….
prismo
1/8/2010-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
Nick Evans?
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
He’s another option too, but it doesn’t make sense to send Murphy down and have Evans on the bench.
trs86
1/8/2010-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps?
Blanco, Cora, Pagan, Murphy, Evans? Technically gives a backup at every position.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
have both Murphy and Evans? might work, but who’s the pinch hitting power bat?
trs86
1/8/2010-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, Murphy and Evans. But who was the one for last year?
wannybackstra
1/8/2010-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
This assumes that either Murphy or Evans can play 3B, which neither did well enough in the minors to stay there.
I’d sooner play Cora.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
I agree. I doubt that the Mets will spend the money to bring in a backup 1B behind Delgado and send Murphy to AAA at the same time.
trs86
1/8/2010-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
I think that was why he also signed Garko. But if we sign Delgado I don’t see Omar spending the money on Garko as well.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
While it’s perhaps not satisfactory, that’s why Garko is on my bench. He then becomes the team’s starting 1B if Murphy is traded. If Murphy is in AAA learning utility, he gets called up at that point and gets some PT at 1B.
My personal preference is that the Mets don’t sign Delgado and at least begin the season with Murphy as the starting 1B. But the way I formulated my bench was that I assumed what I think the Mets are going to do with the starting positions, then leapt into what I would do to fill the bench based on that.
If the Mets do what I want and give the job to Murphy I still like Garko as a pickup to spell Murphy at 1B every once in a while if Murph is doing well, and more often if he’s not.
Either way I think if he’ll come the team sort of needs Garko, because as much as I believe Murphy can do it, I don’t know that he can, and as much as I’d like Delgado to remain healthy, at his age and after that surgery I’d be a fool to bank on it. That’s why I like the idea of someone RH who can fill in against LHP at worst but who’s capable of starting if it comes to that.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
One question I have is do we want to bring Delgado back regardless of his health? I would say yes. IF healthy I believe he still can hit well. I’m sure he won’t be hitting 35/115, but something like 25/90 is not out of reach for him. He can hit in a big spot and can hit both RHP and LHP. His defense will be worse than before, but Murphy or Garko aren’t much better IMO. Maybe Murphy has more range, but he’ll make his share of mistakes at 1B.
Some people question his clubhouse presence BS. I don’t believe that.
trs86
1/8/2010-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
I want him back just for lineup presence. Delgado is still feared by pitchers. Delgado in the 6th spot? That’s a potentially deadly lineup.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
I agree. He’ll also break up the string of RH bats as well. Molina/Frenchy batting #8 is deadly
trs86
1/8/2010-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Imagine
Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Delgado, Frenchy, Molina, Castillo.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
I doubt Wright will be hitting #2. As much as you’d like him to bat at #2, I’m not sure that’s realistic. I’m seeing something like
Reyes, Castillo(or Hudson?), Wright, Beltran, Bay, Delgado, Frenchy, Molina.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
I agree Kistics. I am not a fan of Wright 2nd. I might learn to like it if I see it work for a while, but I’m not inclined to do it.
More than who bats second, I’m concerned with the idea of Francoeur and Molina batting back-to-back. I would hope to see a lineup formulated that breaks them up somehow, either with a LH hitter, or at least with someone who gives us hope they will have an OBP higher than say .315 or so.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
That’s a good point Grave. If Murphy is in the lineup, perhaps he bats in between?
trs86
1/8/2010-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
My thought on Wright is that it takes the pressure of power away from him while also giving him a steady diet of FB. My thoughts on moving Castillo to the 8 spot is that I have no desire to see Molina there. Not only can he not clear the pitcher but there’s not much point in the pitcher bunting him to 2nd either.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
TRS fair point about taking the pressure off Wright, I agree with that idea but am hoping that Bay and Frenchy go a long way toward doing that with both their on field production and their in-the-locker-room press friendliness and general up beat attitudes. Not to mention the return of healthy Reyes and Beltran helping with that. I don’t think “demoting” him by removing him from an RBI spot necessarily helps, but I can at least see how it might to be fair.
I so fear Frenchy/Molina back-to-back that if I am willing to play along with Wright batting 2nd, I want as my bribe to accept that to be able to bat Castillo between Frenchy/Molina.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
My even bigger fear Grave is Wright, Frenchy back to back.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t even consider Wright/Frenchy back-to-back a possibility.
I see Wright 3rd, and Frenchy somewhere 6th or 7th.
trs86
1/8/2010-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
It just depends on who does what.
Say they keep Beltran 3rd and Bay 4th.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-2:12pm at 2:12 pm (UTC -4)
Then your fear might become reality. I personally just don’t have nearly as much of an issue with Frenchy following Wright than I do with Frenchy & Molina’s poor OBPs being back-to-back.
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
1. Aren’t most catchers lard asses?
2. Don’t most catchers bat 8th?
3. Is Molina such a lard ass catcher that we now have to move him somewhere else in the lineup?
4. With his lack of OBP, there won’t be too many opportunities for the pitcher to bunt him over anyway.
As for Wright needing to bat 2nd. There’s no better way to screw up Wright even more than to bat him 2nd. You are basically admitting that he’s got something wrong and needs to be babied by batting him 2nd.
Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Bay,
Beltran,
Frenchy,
Murphy,
Molina
trs86
1/8/2010-2:19pm at 2:19 pm (UTC -4)
As a pitcher, if I have Wright up and Frenchy the free swinger behind him I don’t give Wright anything to hit. I don’t fear that with Bay, Beltran or Delgado. But right now with Wright for some reason I do.
trs86
1/8/2010-2:23pm at 2:23 pm (UTC -4)
I would say without looking that no most catcher do not bat 8th. Especially in the NL.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
Case, your lineup solves all my problems. Wright’s not 2nd and Frenchy and Molina are separated by Murphy. That all works for me just fine.
TRS, I can see your concerns with that tandem and I can’t dispute them, but I again go back to the idea that I just don’t see them batting in that order.
I know some teams like to break up hitters of the same side as much as possible, and that along with OBP is part of my motivation in breaking up Frenchy and Molina.
But I think that Bay & Wright are good enough hitters that I’m not concerned with breaking them up. I like Case’s lineup a lot. If somehow we are discussing Delgado instead of Murphy, surely Delgado at 37 coming off surgery could bat 7th between the 2 low OBP guys instead. He doesn’t deserve to just be crowned a 4-5 hitter at this stage, IMO.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
As far as NL catchers batting 8th I am researching and will report shortly. So far I checked Philly and the answer is yes, 8th.
trs86
1/8/2010-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
My question is also why move Beltran to 5th after the start that he had?
Perhaps this would be best?
Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Delgado, Frenchy, Molina.
I know it does not solve the Frenchy Molina problem but they are 7th and 8th so I am not as concerned.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-2:40pm at 2:40 pm (UTC -4)
Based on the team’s “most often used lineup” here are where NL catchers batted in 2009:
Philly – 8th
Florida – 8th
Atlanta – 4th
NY Mets – 7th
Washington – 7th
St. Louis – 6th
Chi Cubs – 8th
Milwaukee – 8th
Cincinnati – 7th
Houston – 8th
Pittsburgh – 7th
LA Dodgers – 6th
Colorado – 7th
San Francisco – 4th
San Diego – 7th
Arizona – 6th
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
You can move Beltran around if you like. I would be more accepting of him 2nd than Wright as he’s done it before, and it can’t be perceived as a demotion like moving Wright could be IMO.
I am very very much worried about Frenchy and Molina as OBP black holes PRECISELY BECAUSE they are 7th & 8th, because 9th, the pitcher, naturally follows. Do we want 3 OBP holes in a row?
trs86
1/8/2010-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
True but they are also very good RBI men who could be in position to clean up a lot of RBI’s in the process.
If there was no Delgado then the perfect solution would be for Murphy to get better and return to a high OBP guy who could bat 2nd and move Castillo down.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-3:02pm at 3:02 pm (UTC -4)
I’m fine with that, Murphy batted 2nd more than any other spot so he’s acclimated to it too. But it’s just my subjective potentially easily dismissed opinion that Murphy’s skills are better utilized lower in the lineup (splitting Frenchy/Molina) than Castillo’s.
But it’s all subjective and all or none of it may every actually happen. I heartily applaud your out-of-the-box thinking on Wright 2nd, but for me it’s so far out of the box it scares me a little. I really do get stuck on the idea, even if it’s just perception and in no way reality, that after his 2009 moving Wright to 2nd screams demotion and I don’t think he deserves that, real or perception.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with you that my concern is not the alleged clubhouse stuff. It is the potentially HORRIBLE right side of the IF defense with Castillo & post-hip surgery 37 yo Delgado. Unless Delgado’s recovery is remarkable, as his range wasn’t great to begin with, you will be able to drive a tank through the right side with those guys out there. Pelfrey will start eating his own face.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
Based on range you are correct. I will say that however, based on my eyes, Delgado was much better at scooping balls out of the dirt thrown by Wright. Thus that could even out some. Perhaps Wright’s struggles last year had something to do with inexperienced 1B.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
Fair points. I have no clue how to weigh whether range or scooping is more valued at the position. Ideally I’d want both of course, and if I had to gamble I’d bet on Murphy being able to learn to scoop before Delgado at 37 coming off hip surgery learns range.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know how much it counts, but Delgado does have good sense for flow of the game. And he can be the vocal leader in IF as well.
I agree that the range/defense would be pretty bad right side of the IF, but I see only slight upgrade with Murphy or Garko.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps you are right. That is why I have said I am not a big fan of UZR for 1B because it is so much more than range. Not many true 1B that are good going to their right.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
I will say this, even in limited action and defense included, according to fangraphs Delgado was worth 3.5 million last year.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
Even the developers of UZR readily admit to it’s not being as good a tool for 1B as other positions, I give them credit for that.
Delgado being worth that makes sense to me, he was on fire offensively prior to his going down. That hitting prowess is what attracts us to him in the first place.
Others have recovered well from similar surgery, I believe ARod an Utley had it too, but ARod was a superb defender beforehand so he was coming down from a much higher starting point, and both gentleman are younger than Delgado, hence my trepidation both about his health and defensive abilities going forward.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
I think I am comfortable with the fact that IF moderately healthy the guy will produce. In my opinion he will produce enough to out weigh his defensive issues. Perhaps, we could do Delgado and Pelfrey a favor by subbing out Delgado when Pelfrey is on the mound?
metsfan4decades
1/8/2010-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
Good points.
If you believe MF though, the Mets are signing Delgado. Personally, I’m not sure this is any kind of lock yet. He hasn’t played in the field as yet, right? I thought the Mets wanted to be convinced he could play in the field several days in a row….
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think Delgado will be signed till the last minute. If I were Omar, I’d hold off till the very last minute to see where Delgado is.
trs86
1/8/2010-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
Question: If Delgado is brought back, would Garko come knowing he may get little time? As Murphy’s platoon guy and maybe in competition that’s a lot more ab’s.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
Good point. Also, would Garko’s salary be justified compared to his ABs? Probably not. So, it won’t work from both perspectives.
How much do you think Garko demands? or get paid?
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
I think he would be less likely to come in that circumstance, but I would be a devious GM and sign Garko making him only vague promises of playing time, then later bring in Delgado. Tough luck for Garko at that point, he can demand a release/trade I suppose.
When the Yankees traded for Nick Swisher he was going to be their starting 1B, then they signed Teixeira. Not exactly the same circumstances, but I don’t think a contract has clauses that stipulate playing time.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
I agree, pending our question it would not be fair to say you can’t get Garko. LOL.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
But how would you justify Garko’s salary with limited ABs?
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
What is that salary going to be? I have no idea.
I didn’t really factor salary into the equation, in part because I don’t think it was a topic in the post. I did try to keep it somewhat realistic, I mean I didn’t ask for Pujols to back up 1B or anything.
Garko is basically on the MLB discard pile right now, his last two teams have either already replaced him or are actively seeking to do so, and he made only $446,100 last year.
I am simply telling you the players I want on the roster. If his salary demands preclude him from taking a spot then they do and I go to plan B, but I haven’t formulated plan B yet and I don’t see a long list of teams knocking down Garko’s agent’s door.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:38pm at 1:38 pm (UTC -4)
RUMOR is 2/6.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
My concern with Garko is that it does not appear the Giants want him back but still are looking for a 1B with pop.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
Well a team that gives Alex Cora $2 mil annually to ideally play what, once a week, could probably scrounge up $3 mil annually for Garko.
FWIW, they also allegedly withdrew their offer to LaRoche. I’m not sure exactly what they’re looking for or what they are willing to pay for it.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
True, I don’t think it’s cost prohibitive if that is the direction we go in. I just imagine the only way we get him is if we go with Murphy. I just don’t see him being Delgado’s backup.
metsfan4decades
1/8/2010-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
IMO, who Omar might be spending money on for the bench depends on if they really do sign Delgado. If they don’t sign Delgado, obviously there are a few more bucks to spend on backups. If they do sign Delgado, I still think they need a 5th OF/backup 3rd base guy. I know Nick Evans is cheap but he’s really not an OF. Could live with him to start, if we had to.
I know everyone is gonna shoot me for this but I wouldn’t mind Tatis on the cheap. He played all 4 infield positions at one point last year (although admittedly he’s not comfortable at all at SS), and both corner OF spots.
If you look at 2008, he was great off the bench. Obviously, his 2009 stats leave much to be desired but that was probably to be expected trying to use him as a long term starter…..
I like the Xman too, but I think the price will be too high, especially for that health question mark.
Otherwise, I like Wiggington and Mora as well. Oh, and I’ll always have a soft spot for Endy.
trs86
1/8/2010-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
Yup, Grave is right. Mora, Tatis, Kennedy and in my opinion Wiggy are best for that role.
dirtysanchez
1/8/2010-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
whos price is higher…wiggy or xman?
trs86
1/8/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
I am guessing xman.
fongy2
1/8/2010-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
Except,who knows if
Nady will be ready
by opening day???
metsfan4decades
1/8/2010-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
According to what I read somewhere – and can’t remember what site that was…..Nady projects to be ready by May.
fongy2
1/8/2010-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah,I
think I
saw”sometime”in May.
Is that a gamble we wanna take?
And who knows if he comes back then,how long before
he’s “back to normal”?
For me,Thanks but no thanks!
trs86
1/8/2010-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
Again depends on price. Murphy getting most of the AB’s with Evans as his backup until May is not that damaging if the cost for Nady is low. Right now it does not appear to be.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
Is Xman ready take on the role of bench player? I know he’s been injured all year last year, but I’m sure there will be teams pursuing him for a starting role.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
Can he if he won’t be ready until May?
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
Ankiel is a slugging lefty. Would he accept a bench/primary pinch hitter role? (He’s from Port St. Lucie)
Since Delgado will hurt his hip in PR, I’m going w/ Garko for the bench to backup Murphy.
Cora, should be able to backup Wright for a few games. Also, Murph played 196 games at 3B in the minors. So he could slide over, for a few games too.
Ankiel and Garko, plz.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
I think Ankiel finds more playing time. If he could play 1B I would agree.
fongy2
1/8/2010-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
Heard somewhere that
“he doesn’t want to
pitch in New York”.
I just sayin’……
Seriously though, The
Pittsburgh Papers have been reporting
that The Pirates are
likely to sign Ankiel
and are just waiting
for him to realize hes
not gonna get a multi
yr deal from anyone.
They want him as a starter.
In the Outfield,
that is
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Is that a LH or RH starting OF?
fongy2
1/8/2010-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Greg Harris,
anyone?
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
Well played, sir. There is really no explanation for why Jim Abbot just jumped into my head.
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
I’d take that $5M+ guaranteed MC is saying it’ll take to sign Delgado and spend it on Ankiel and Garko.
You could spend $5M plus another $5M – $8M in incentives on Delgado who although he may be able to hit is very likely to get injured and play poor defense.
Or you spend half at most, and you have two very capable guys who can step up in case of injuries or if Murphy and Frenchy don’t play well.
I’m talking about Depth. Give me some.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
I would like that option as well. But would both Garko and Ankiel accept the bench role?
Garko probably would get a lot of ABs platooning with Murphy, but Ankiel can definitely land a starting role elsewhere AND get paid the similar $$.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
Thing is you most likely could not get both for 5 nor could you convince both to come here for such little playing time.
Also, I see Delgado getting maybe 3 or 4 million.
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
Blogonazi says $5M guaranteed plus another $5 – $8M in incentives.
Pirates aren’t offering a starting job.
Other than KC who just signed Pods, he doesn’t have other suitors.
Ankiel is competing with Nady, Church, Gomes, Baldelli, etc.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10008/1026695-63.stm?cmpid=pirates.xml
trs86
1/8/2010-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
Ankiel and Garko. I don’t see you being able to get both for 5. But as I said why would they both come here knowing lack of playing time?
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
If both don’t land starting jobs, which is a very strong possibility, I’d imagine we can outspend other teams to have them on our bench.
Time will tell.
trs86
1/8/2010-2:05pm at 2:05 pm (UTC -4)
Also, interesting on the fact that other reports say that the Pirates were willing to offer him RF.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-1:40pm at 1:40 pm (UTC -4)
Next Wednesday David Wright with Mike Francesa, +- 2:30pm.
trs86
1/8/2010-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, I guess the theory of Mike going easier on the Mets would show up there.
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-1:53pm at 1:53 pm (UTC -4)
Man, I really hope Wright’s alter ego shows up and goes WWE on the Fat Man.
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-2:50pm at 2:50 pm (UTC -4)
Can anyone figure the NL AVG. for OBP in the 7th and 8th holes?
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-3:10pm at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
I think the work involved would be unbelievable. My only hope would be a website that had already done something like that.
Otherwise, I MIGHT be able to do a half-assed version of that which would involve my looking up every NL team to see who batted 8th most often exclusively for 2009 (for example, with the Mets that was Anderson Hernandez 35 times), then look up each of those players splits to get their numbers for just when they batted 8th, then do all the math, but that would be flawed because it wouldn’t be the true NL average, it would just be the average of who batted their most often, and even that is a lot of work I’m not sure I want to do.
FWIW, AHern’s OBP batting 8th was .329.
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-3:25pm at 3:25 pm (UTC -4)
Problem solved.
7th .319
8th .326
Frenchy is a career OBP .311 and 07-09 .338, .294, .309
Molina is a career OBP .308 and 07-09 .298, .322, .285
7 and 8 hole has a low OBP, Frenchy and Molina are below average.
Would Jerry consider batting Molina 6th?
Reyes-Castillo-Wright-Beltran-Bay-Molina-Murphy-Frenchy
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-3:32pm at 3:32 pm (UTC -4)
Thank God that was getting tiresome, I’ll stop with the thing below now. I can’t see why Jerry wouldn’t consider it, since Molina’s been batting 4th, 6th is just 2 louder, and the same for Frenchy, he’s been batting 6th, 8 is just 2 louder. Although one might just leave Frenchy in his “comfort” zone of 6th and push Molina to 8th.
I’m less concerned with where each guy is and more concerned with simply separating them. You accomplish that either way. And doing it with a LH or a SW is ideal to mess with team’s bullpen plans.
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-3:36pm at 3:36 pm (UTC -4)
I’d like to thank Google and the wonderful people at Baseball Reference.
I’d imagine Molina might be less insulted hitting 6th instead of 8th. Plus, batting him further up in the lineup could justify the 3/18 contract he’s going to get [sarcasm].
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-3:51pm at 3:51 pm (UTC -4)
Only if that 3rd year vests!
I guess then I wonder, which guy is more fragile and likely to fall apart when Jerry tells the media, who later tell the player himself, that he’s batting 8th?
Both gentleman could be described as “big guys” that you wouldn’t want to deliver bad news to, one probably slightly more equipped than the other to run after you when you deliver it. At least the media will be able to get pictures of the guy who is chasing them slowly fading out of view.
wannybackstra
1/8/2010-4:45pm at 4:45 pm (UTC -4)
Molina makes for a better 8 hitter than Francoeur because he’s a contact hitter and a good junkballer. Frenchy in the 8 spot will strike out 160x chasing balls while being pitched around with the pitcher behind him.
Anyway, the goal for the Mets shouldn’t be to meet league averages. The goal should be to exceed them.
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-5:04pm at 5:04 pm (UTC -4)
You have to play with the cards you are dealt.
Like it or not, Omar wants to improve pitching by having Molina hover over the plate.
And thanks to Jerry, we also have Frenchy’s low OBP to deal w/.
Still, though. As long as they’re not hitting back to back, they should be good.
wannybackstra
1/8/2010-5:10pm at 5:10 pm (UTC -4)
I understand the realities of the situation and given the other catching options I’m not as opposed to Molina as I was and ordinarily would be.
And I agree 100% they must not bat back to back. If their strengths are in driving runners in then it won’t be beneficial for either of them to be hitting with the other in front of him not reaching base.
6-8 of Francoeur, Murphy and Molina would be fine by me.
Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Bay, French, Murph and Molina is the best lineup, IMO, with this group of players.
And if Delgado is here, I’d probably just bat him 7th in Murphy’s spot until he forces my hand to move him up.
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-3:25pm at 3:25 pm (UTC -4)
Here’s the link:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/split.cgi?t=b&lg=NL&year=2009
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-3:29pm at 3:29 pm (UTC -4)
These numbers are for the primary 8th batter for each team, and only include when they actually batted 8th (in the case of a tie for # of games batting 8th, I simply used the guy b-r listed first):
Mets – A. Hernandez AB 188, H 51, BB 17, OBP .329
Phils – C. Ruiz AB 290, H 71, BB 45, OBP .352
Marlins – C. Maybin AB 83, H 17, BB 8, OBP .283
Braves – J. Schafer AB 140, H 28, BB 17, OBP .285
Nats – W. Nieves AB 210, H 56, BB 15, .319
That’s so far, as I get more I’ll just edit my comment using my secret magic edit powers
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-3:18pm at 3:18 pm (UTC -4)
Fongy, you might like this.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/scott-podsednik-dayton-moore-and-the-contest/#comment-119992
fongy2
1/8/2010-3:46pm at 3:46 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks Case, Calling Ollie’s
contract “the jose guillen special” DID make me LOL!
Cute article BUT claiming
Omar over bid against himself
to get Bay is just ill-informed. We know better.
Plus, even if it were true,
it’s one thing to bid against yourself for Ollie and another
for Jason Bay.
Where’s all the hammering of the yanks or the cards for
not only bidding against themselves for CC and Holliday
cash-wise BUT the absurd number of years each rec’d,
let alone the yankee/arod
situation…30million when
he’s 42??? Good luck with that!
I agree that all GMs make mistakes and Omar has made
his,no doubt…BUT let’s
try and be somewhat fair.
Lastly, I feel for Royal fans,
a great part of the country
and after losing The A’s with
all that great talent that went onto win 3 straight
titles in Oakland, they got
The Royals, who also developed
great, great players from within, were a terrific contender for a decade BUT
have lived through over 20
years of mostly real bad
baseball, are now given
the back of the hand by their
FO and called greedy crybabies
because they’d like to be
able to root for a winner….
For a change.
Nice, classy…………
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-4:02pm at 4:02 pm (UTC -4)
I think I prefer angry fongy
prismo
1/8/2010-5:42pm at 5:42 pm (UTC -4)
Wow that article and comment section piss me off. I don’t know why I take it so personally, but I REALLY hate when a comment section gets on the “Mets hating train” (unless it’s a division rival’s website – then I totally get it). But it seems like fairly knowledgeable baseball fans hope on the train, and I just don’t get it.
It all starts with the article itself though. Omar overpaid Bay by $15-20 million!? That’s completely absurd. Fangraphs nerds may enjoy their “dollars per WAR on the market” bullcrap, but the reality is that better players will always get paid above the average $/WAR. In addition, teams with a higher income don’t need to follow the same rules as teams with low incomes.
Somehow I doubt if the Sox had given Bay his 4/60 contract, there’d be a fangraphs article saying Theo overpaid by $10-15 million.
Man, this really gets to me!
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-5:48pm at 5:48 pm (UTC -4)
I hear where you’re coming from man, I stopped reading the article about halfway through, moved on to the comments and stopped reading them after about half a dozen. I just don’t need the aggravation.
One comment I saw gave me a mixture of hope an fear, it was essentially “I guess this (referring to the way the comments were unfolding) is what we get now that fangraphs is growing and getting more attention.”
So if we’re lucky, we’ll get to experience the same horror of success.
fongy2
1/8/2010-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll tell ya Case, adding Molina
and Delgado to our 2010 lineup
could spell disaster.
Reyes,Castillo,Wright,Beltran,Bay,
Delgado,Molina,Frenchy might look
good on paper, if it were 2006 or 2007 BUT in 2010, looks alot more
to me like Mets circa 1992,’93….
Lots of strikeouts, lots of quick
innings for opposing Pitchers and
lots of clogging up the basepaths.
It also doesn’t look like a great fielding team which wouldn’t make signing a Piniero or Garland a very
positive move.
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-4:15pm at 4:15 pm (UTC -4)
But think of all the pretty homeruns they’ll hit.
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-4:20pm at 4:20 pm (UTC -4)
There’s a certain LHP from Defiance, OH born on 10/27/86 who has a career 6.6 SO/9. He might fair better than Garland or Pineiro
CaseStreet
1/8/2010-4:14pm at 4:14 pm (UTC -4)
Holy Moly!
Jeff Francouer DOES NOT strikeout too much. At least not in 09.
I thought he was Adam Dunn lite.
Frenchy had 92 K’s in 632 PA.
There were 53 OFers who struck out more last year.
In 08 Frenchy was 28th with 111 of 653.
07 13th with 129 of 696 PA.
At least he’s getting better.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=n&type=0&season=2009&month=0
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/8/2010-4:38pm at 4:38 pm (UTC -4)
So his reputation for striking out too much was from ’07. That’s a positive note.
wannybackstra
1/8/2010-5:04pm at 5:04 pm (UTC -4)
Jay Marshall will certainly be on the pine but hopefully in Buffalo.
The lefty side-armer they claimed off waivers held LH hitters (whom he would presumably excel at retiring given his side-arm stature) to a line of .301 .348 .373.
I won’t post his numbers v. righties because it will make me sick.
He had a pretty good minor league career, though.
GravediggerHebner
1/8/2010-5:42pm at 5:42 pm (UTC -4)
The Mets 2010 Highlight film will be subtitled: Forgetting Jay Marshall
stickguy
1/8/2010-11:48pm at 11:48 pm (UTC -4)
I miss all the fun notbeing able to log on much, and not being able to post, during the daytime.
Garko and Mora are interesting options for the bench, but as others have noted, it all changes if they sign Delgado, or of course trade castillo.
Ah, my man Luis. Yes, I want him gone, but I am thinking that he does need to hit 8th if they insist on playing him.
And if they are putting him higher up, I still firmly believe that both players will be more productive, and the mets overall better off, with castillo 1st and Reyes 2nd (if they are otherwise planning to hit them in the reverse order).
For the bench, I expect that cheap in house guys will fill the remaining roles (evans, carter say).