Yesterday was yet another day baseball received a black eye. The Worst Kept Dirty Little Secret was finally revealed and even though I had a feeling  that McGwire was on the juice when he was playing for the Cardinals, I still feel disappointed. My question is: will the Writers forgive McGwire and elect him to the Hall of Fame?
I want to make my position clear. The Hall of Fame should not accept any athlete that has used Performance Enhancing Drugs. This is regardless of what their admission is. In my opinion, they cheated and when an athlete cheats, the stats they put up are false and the outcome of the game is altered. And  I know that an athlete that used PED’s can justify it by simply saying that they were trying to keep up. I don’t care, In my opinion, you cheat, your out.  Yea, I know the loophole that exists for McGwire and everyone else during the 90′s……
There was no test for Steroids.
It still doesn’t matter to me but more importantly, that doesn’t seem to matter to the Writers who elect players to the Hall either.
And now they are in for it.
For if they choose to stick by their values then Mark McGwire should never be elected to the Hall of Fame.  If they do accept his apology and elect him it wouldn’t be fair to everyone else. (and this includes Pete Rose)
Will Major League Baseball keep McGwire’s home run record? If they decided not to then lets also nullify A-Rod’s MVP award too. As a side note, The New York Times did print an article about McGwire’s admission and in the article McGwire did say that he had phoned the Maris Family to apologize, their reaction, according to him, was that of disappointment.
Deep down, I feel bad for what has transpired, for McGwire, for baseball and the Fans. However, I am thankful that this Steroid Mess has yet to touch the Mets(knock on wood) for I know as well as other Met fans that I have read the name Piazza and PED’s in books and several articles. The last thing the Mets need at this point is Piazza’s name leaked from the List. So while I’ll keep my fingers crossed everytime I see Piazza’s name in the newspaper. I will watch what transpires with Mark McGwire with great interest. For like Piazza, Mark McGwire was a very popular baseball figure.
The McGwire Effect will be unique in that, to me, Mark McGwire did more than just take steroids and hit home runs. When Baseball was at it’s lowest ebb, McGwire and fellow Steroid user Sammy Sosa saved baseball. The home run race brought back a lot of fans that left because they were angry about the strike years earlier. Will the Writers remember this, do they want to?
So what Mark McGwire did was set a ball in motion, by admitting his guilt he will now start the official Apology Tour 2010. We will now see him a lot more, he might do a talk show, maybe another news interview, possibly an ESPN thing.  He is also back in baseball, being the Hitting Coach for the Cardinals. He won’t dodge a question when the PED topics come up I’m quiet sure but the question remains: Is McGwire 5 years too late? Will the Writers forgive him?
If this tearful apology from McGwire and admission of guilt causes the Voters of the Hall to reconsider their position and elect McGwire then a new standard will be set. Any player that admitted to using would be eligible.
It’s only fair.
McGwire confesses, cries, says he’s let everyone down, lays low, waits a couple of years he might just pull it off. He might get the Votes he needs to get in.
Then again, it might not.
Time will only tell, if next years votes go up for McGwire it only means what he did yesterday was successful. This means that everyone else can do the same. If McGwire were to be elected into the Hall he would be the leader of Fellow Users of PED’s. Maybe they will go in under the Steroid Era but they will have a plaque right next to the Greats of the Game.
So 2010 will not be the the year of the McGwire admission, instead it will be the year of Voters integrity.
36 comments
dirtysanchez
1/13/2010-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
this will be a problem that is very complex and hard to solve. I dont think the writers will let mack into the HOF…plain and simple for his use of PED’s. The problem comes in when you have guys like barry bonds and Arod that are eligible for the HOF. While im not sure i ever heard of bonds officially admitting to steroids, Arod has. I dont think any of the voters can envision or not elect arod into the HOF but just like mac, Arod officially acknowledged his use of PED’s. The voters cant be hypocritical to elect Arod into the HOF knowing he used PEDs and not elect Mack because he used PED’s. To add another dynamic to this situation, when these guys took PED’s, it wasn’t banned by baseball so technically, none of these guys did anything against the “rules” of the game and were within their rights to do so. To penalize those players for somethings that wasn’t against the rules seems unfair.
I believe Mack, Arod, Bonds should all be elected into the HOF. That being said, their records and accomplishments should just have an asterisks by them to indicate they did use PED’s. Now with stricter drug testing, im sure this wont be a problem when guys playing in this era are eligible. Steroids aided many players to stay on the field and from what i understand, does not enhance hand eye coordination which is key in the game of baseball. It may have enhanced their strength and speed but to do what these guys did was still legendary. Again i think they should be placed in HOF but their records should be placed with an asterisk and that should be punishment enough for those guys that hold records. Marris will still own the single season record but w/o and asterisk, while mcgwire will have his over Marris but with an asterisk.
prismo
1/13/2010-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
100% agree Dirty! Thanks for saving me the time of writing up a response to gonzo’s post.
trs86
1/13/2010-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Don’t forget Bonds passed the single season record too.
I don’t know how I feel about it. On one hand the “did not know it was against the rules” part does not fly. It was illegal in this country, thus against the rules. However, what has still not came out is how the baseball trainers, coaches, managers, owners, and commish all new that it was going on and turned a blind eye to it. Baseball was trying to earn popularity back from the strike and they did indeed. When basketball or football’s popularity starts to go down they change the rules to increase scoring. Baseball did the same thing yet in doing so allowed their players to use a damaging substance that could alter the game of baseball itself as well as jeopardize the lives of its players. Shame on them now for conducting this witch hunt and keeping it in the news. Baseball should take a page from Wrestling and come out and admit knowing it and close the book on it.
metsfan4decades
1/13/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
My opinion is much the same as yours here.
They weren’t banned by MLB at that time, but illegal drug use was, well, illegal drug use. Not a doubt in my mind they all knew what they were doing was wrong. Otherwise, why hide and/or lie about it – even back then?
Still, MLB has some culpability concerning this too. And they have not, particularly Selig, admitted any responsibility in allowing this either. They wanted, even relished, these guys doing what they were doing, at a time where the game needed something to bring the fans and the faith back to baseball. Now, they’re pointing fingers, saying ‘shame on you’? Bah….
Not to bring up politics but it so reminds me of the Ollie North scandal back when…..Get a military and patriotic man to do your dirty work. Tried to keep it quiet. When that didn’t work, and all hell broke lose, they use him as a scapegoat and hang him out to dry.
Just can’t have it both ways.
I’m not sure what the solution is but if guys like McGwire do get elected to the HOF, I strongly feel there should be an * by their names as a product of the Steroid Era, by their own admission.
dirtysanchez
1/13/2010-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
I totally understand where your coming from and your right, jose blew the whistle on this and MLB has been playing politics since then. These guys were paid handsomely for basically risking their livelihood by the MLB to bring fans back to the game. Im just saying that it will be difficult and more politics for the HOF voters to justify Arod getting in(which is one of the guys that on MLB Network they would vote in) and not Mcgwire even though both have admitted to taking PED’s. I think the only medium to resolve this is to simply put an * by ALL their accomplishments since there is not credible way to determine when in fact they started using and what aspect of their game was influenced. MLB is not rewarding them because their records will FOREVER be scrutinized compared with people who did the same if not better cleanly. Or the other extreme would be anyone who has taken PED’s shouldnt be allowed into the HOF, problem is there are over 100 names still left in that report who tested positive that we will never know.
trs86
1/13/2010-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
Right, go back to when we know steroids were being used up to when todays testing standards were put in and admit that era is a mess and move on. Unless you are actually going to go in and take stats away they are still….. stats.
fongy2
1/13/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Very simply, McGwire doesn’t belong and thankfully,will not get into the HOF. Without his second(steroid fueled)career, he’s not even close.
I think Clemens may be in the same
boat.Take a look at his numbers when
he left Boston at around 35 y/o.
He was very clearly on the downside
and his stats at that point didn’t warrant him being elected.
Bonds is however a diff story b/c
he was in all likeyhood headed to copperstown before he started juicing
so, with him I can see him eventually getting in.
trs86
1/13/2010-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
I think it’s hard to pick and choose and we are penalizing the ones who confessed. If it was really that wide spread. then how do we know?
fongy2
1/13/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Well we know about McGwire and Clemens.
dirtysanchez
1/13/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
problem is clemens and bonds never “admitted” to taking steroids, it is only speculation(albiet strong speculation). I think looking at it in that light gets very dicey. We only know now that all these players were juicing(thanks to cansaco) and can only know what the players tell us. Thus we are taking their word that in fact they only used it when they “say” they used it. It gets too muddy for me imo and you either let these guys in for what they were able to do and just make sure its known that they used PED’s because to get in the HOF you have to be the best in your field/position for some time so i doubt every PED user is HOF worthy. The alternative is to not let anyone in at all because PED’s are PED’s, problem is that there may already be people in the HOF that used PED’s but since MLB is so tight lipped about everything, we will never know. The HOF is subjective enough already, trying to determine when in a players career they should be considered because the other part of the players career was influenced by PED’s is way to difficult.
fongy2
1/13/2010-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Dirty, you sound like someone who the defense
would have loved on the first O.J.trial.”we”we didn’t actually SEE O.J.kill them,so….”
C’mon man!
And again,with McGwire’he wasn’t a HOFer and thankfully will not be one.
dirtysanchez
1/13/2010-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
hahah…the glove didnt fit man
trs86
1/13/2010-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
But again, why punish McGwire when it was so wide spread? Because we found out? Baseball needs to come clean and move on.
trs86
1/13/2010-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
Agreed Dirty. It’s just not something they should get in to. It’s not like I even need an reminder. Everyone knows that numbers were inflated during that period and in the back of their minds have discredited it compared to other stars. However, how is it that we take HOF potential away but do nothing to the record books, wins and losses, WS wins and losses…. Again, it’s time to move on. Bud needs to come out and say baseball had a problem, we were part of that problem, we have taken steps to rid baseball of that problem. Due to my knowledge of what was going on at the time, I resign.
trs86
1/13/2010-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
OK but do we know about the others? This problem is much more baseball’s fault than it was the guys using. If you could increase your salary and become the best in your profession then it would be tempting. However, baseball officials, you can’t tell me BUD did not know that McGuire and Sosa were using at the time it was happening? It’s baseball’s HOF and baseball’s issue. Admit that they too were in the wrong, call it the steroid era, close the book and move on.
fongy2
1/13/2010-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
Problem is even if he did,what could he do about it?
Sure the looked the other way but what options did they have.
The guys who played then and didn’t complain to the union and the league are as much if not more guilty and I’m sure many will pay by being left out of the Hall or delayed entry.
Thats the price you pay for
that.
I think over the next few yrs there are enough guys you could put in the Hall from prior eras,giving even more time to the voters
to comb through
what exactly went on from
1990-2005.
trs86
1/13/2010-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
But what repercussions did the owners or Bud have to pay. They are the ones at fault even more than the players. If you own a business and your employee is committing unethical behavior and you know it is happening yet continue to allow it because it makes you money? You are for sure even more guilty.
My point is that the HOF is baseball’s as is this problem. They should deal with it as a mistake by both parties and allow closure. Let these guys in based on stats with the understanding that the entire era was tainted by the players and baseball itself.
wannybackstra
1/13/2010-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed 100%.
Put a note on McGwire’s bronzed mug that states he admitted to PED use.
But he still hit more HRs then a bunch of other jacked up creeps.
Hard to believe that other guys would have put up their numbers without the use of amphetamines to keep them fresh every day or that Phil Niekro would have won so many games without a nail file in his pocket.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/13/2010-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
Sounds like Molina is getting close to sign… I wonder if Francessa will be breaking the news as well.
saltygary
1/13/2010-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
The HOF is a history museum. That being said, anyone that produced at a HOF level should be entered regardless of whether it has been confirmed or not. The era is a mess but the era needs to be on display so the fans can learn about it especially as time moves on.
This time period should be in a separate area. For the players that are confirmed to have used steroids and appropriate scarlet letter should be placed on the plaques so every knows or even group the plaques by confirmed, suspicion, and no confirmed use. Who cares if the players boycott or have any issue with it. The one thing that they will never get is the impact their actions had on the game and how the fans observe it.
As for McGwire my stance has always been let him in 9probably guessed that from my above paragraph). I am actually more peeved about the guy after the Costas interview. I only read it but it was very clear that he just doesn’t get it and the only reason he is doing it is for the obvious and that is his new job. He is in complete denial what his actions have done to the game.
trs86
1/13/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Right, McGwire was one of the best players during the steroid era.
wannybackstra
1/13/2010-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
There are a lot of “cheaters” in the HOF including the admitted spitballers (e.g. Gaylord Perry), the nail filers (e.g. Phil Niekro), the excessive pine tar users (George Brett and the various pitchers caught with the same under the hats), the ball scuffers (I believe Hubbell was among them) and probably dozens and dozens of amphetamine users (I would estimate that greenie/amphetamine laced coffee use was even more prevalent from the 60-80s than PEDs were in the 90s).
I think the former players who are so scornful of the PED users need to get off their high horses and realize that cheating has always been an unfortunate part of the game.
Now, those who want to cite to the character requirements for HOFers as an argument against the PED users need to learn a bit more about the careers and lives of Fergie Jenkins, Cap Anson and Ty Cobb, as well as guys who used to show up to games half in the bag like Mickey Mantle or Babe Ruth.
wannybackstra
1/13/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
This post was just awaiting moderation. Did SNY take over?
trs86
1/13/2010-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, I got the email and did not even read the post before I submitted it for approval. Don’t know what it caught.
GravediggerHebner
1/13/2010-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
I’ve read your post numerous times to try and figure out what may have flagged it but I can’t. Perhaps “spitballers” is vaguely pornographic.
GravediggerHebner
1/13/2010-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe “Gaylord?”
wannybackstra
1/13/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
Then I guess we can’t discuss Meet the Parents.
GravediggerHebner
1/13/2010-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
Nope, those Fockers are out.
GravediggerHebner
1/13/2010-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
My personal feeling is that if a player otherwise meets the loosely defined qualifications to gain entrance to the HOF they should get in whether they used PEDs or not, whether they admitted it or not, whether they were “caught” or not.
I haven’t been to the HOF in roughly 30 years so I don’t know how they are dealing with the “steroid era” but it is my hope that, especially in light of what I consider Salty’s accurate description of it as a history museum, they have some reference to what that era entailed in their museum for all to see on a plaque or something. Then people can debate amongst themselves about whether the people meet their own HOF qualifications with as much knowledge of the period and the people as is available.
In 1993 a roommate of mine was in a little known touring band and they went on a midwest tour that summer. He knew I was a baseball fan and while the band was touring around he bought me a present which he presented to me upon the band’s return: it was a red Mark McGwire t-shirt with an image of the burly slugger on the front.
I still have that shirt. It’s tattered and torn, much like McGwire himself. It’s become a sort of “chore shirt” for me which I will wear when doing yardwork and such things. This past summer I was in the middle of some work around the house and had to run out to my local hardware conglomerate. While there I passed a boy in the aisle, I am bad at guessing ages but my guess is he was in the 10-13 range. He stopped in front of me, pointed at my shirt and asked “really?” I laughed and said “it was a gift” and continued shopping.
fongy2
1/13/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
RE: Your 11:30a Post TRS, AGAIN,
what would you have had the Owners/
commish do?? You know the strength
of the Union at the time. There was
no testing for the ‘roids or HGH, so… Again, what could they do??
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending the owners,I have no love
there BUT what could they do?
And as for the postings of both you and Wanny that he should still get in the Hall, well, once again, w/o
the ‘roids, his career likely would have been about over by ’97/’98.
He was injury prone and was in his
30s. Was he gonna even be what he was prior to the injuries? Let alone
be twice the player?
As one of the guys on MLB TV said
last night, “he was pretty much
Jay Buhner before the ‘roids”
And frankly, I’d contend, not even
that good an all ’round player.
Good player, big HR hitter for a few
yrs BUT so was Dave Kingman.
trs86
1/13/2010-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
To your first point. Do you honestly think they did not know? Take a stand and do something about it then. Or how about not campaigning Sosa and McGwire around on the save baseball tour? That’s BS. Baseball caused the problem and baseball will have to be the one that comes clean and moves on.
Your 2nd part, not so fast.
McGwire had 217 HR in his first 6 major league seasons and had a .618 SLG in his 2nd year. We have no idea what path his career would have taken without steroids. But again, that is not the point. Who else on this list of guys in the top 50 of SLG that played during the steroid are you going to keep out?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/slugging_perc_career.shtml
So can you prove that any of these guys did not? I am guessing that many (or Manny) did. So again we are penalizing the ones who confessed when according to reports it was wide spread.
trs86
1/13/2010-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
To save you some time
Pujols, Bonds, Manny, Howard, Arod, Vlad, Helton, Thome, Berkman, Thomas, Delgado, Ortiz, Holliday, Piazza, Tex, Cabrerra, Griffey, Chipper, Bagwell, Sosa and Edmonds.
So are we saying none of these guys should get in or just Mac because he confessed?
Mr North Jersey
1/14/2010-2:06am at 2:06 am (UTC -4)
So wait are you suggesting that if you admit to doing roids you should still get in the Hall Of Fame?
I don’t know if the owners knew or didn’t know if they did know at best they knew of rumblings and with the Union as powerful as they were could not act on rumors at the time or they would of been lambasted.
Either way it is not like they were spreading needles to the players to begin with. It is obvious that it was a personal decision on a player by player basis. I agree baseball caused the problem and when I say baseball I mean Players, Owners, and the Union.
Don’t be fooled though it all starts with the players.
As far as McGwire you are right we have no idea what his career would of taken without roids. That is why he doesn’t get in. You can’t say which homerun was tainted by roids by an admitted cheater. So there is no way to know which are legit or not so how do you reward a admitted cheater by granting him the Hall Of Fame?
If a player doesn’t admit to cheating then baseball can’t simply say a player cheated without proof but once a player admits to using roids that is a whole other ball and wax.
wannybackstra
1/13/2010-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
Also, there is no evidence that steroid use extended McGwire’s career (at least insofar as healing his various injuries). The steroid he is most suspected of using according to an FBI source, who has been making rounds, is Winstrol, a horse tranquilizer used for developing muscle and bulk but is known for being detrimental to joints, etc.
If he was primarily using Winstrol then he was most likely lying about the reason he used steroids (which most of us reasonable folks think he was lying about anyway). But he also most likely used the Winstrol to the detriment, not the benefit, of his bad knee.
fongy2
1/13/2010-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
Actually you’re penalizing the ones
who never did.
Ya think Donnie Baseball wouldn’t be
a HOF lock if he’d
have had just 2or3
more seasons like his first 6? Injuries ruined his career
and injuries were ruining the career
of McGwire until he
started to cheat the game,the fans and the
competion. How is this okay with you?
And as a teacher, aren’t you a union member?
Again, you think that
no matter what the owners knew or didn’t,
they’d have gotten the union to okay testing and penalties?
Are you kidding about this or what?
And what about the guys who were somewhat
vocal? Like Wally Joyner? Who was every
bit the ALLstar type 1B McGwire was at the
exact same time BUT whos career was very good BUT not great b/c he didn’t cheat WHILE trying to compete against guys who were.
I’m just glad that most feel like I do
since it assures McGwire will never get into the Hall.
As a teacher,you should think again about you’re stance
on this TRS.
And I mean that with all due respect to
you and teachers everywhere.
My wife was one in the Philly school system b/f getting into the Insurance biz.
Mr North Jersey
1/14/2010-1:45am at 1:45 am (UTC -4)
I have to agree with you Fongy.
You only need to know one thing he admitted to doing Roids.
How the future will judge admitted roid users eligibility into the H.O.F. none of us can say. I hope though that none get in that have admitted to it but I fear that if there is one that can get in it will be ARod and if you are going to let him in then you might as well let them all in if they are eligible.
I pray I that day never comes.