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Jan 14

Beltran’s Out. Dammit Now What ?

So obviously right on cue TRDM server went down yesterday only to miss yet another freak occurrence for most but normal for the Mets events.

First of all, this is yet another reason to fire Omar?  Not because Beltran got injured.  Not because he did it without permission.  Not because our trainers are the laughing stock.  The Mets can’t have anything happen without controversy.  But enough about that.

Today’s question is now what?

Do we assume that current reports by the team are true and Beltran will be back and playing by May?

Do we assume that attention seeking reports are true and that Beltran had a much more severe surgery and will be out most if not all of the season?

For me I have learned my Mets lesson.  Expect nothing while expecting everything.  As we suggested last year we have to assume that long run Beltran will be back thus you don’t need to panic and trade the farm for a CF.  However, we also have to assume that short term he will not be back and will need an everyday major leaguer to replace him.  Not a scrub waiting for the cavalry.

I propose to do the following.  Improve as many positions as possible with the remaining talent.  Also bring in another guy to push Pagan and give depth in CF.

A) Sign LaRoche:  No more of this Delgado business.  I was for Delgado as a luxury to a healthy Mets team.  As a guy I am depending on? Run away.  LaRoche at 2 years does nothing to this team long term and it does not take away Beltran’s position.

A2)  Dammit twice.  OK so next option is Johnny Damon.  To play some OF AND 1B.   Or perhaps Hank Blalock.  I am not sure Blalock is an improvement over what we MIGHT get from Murphy but we need some insurance against our mights.

B) Sign Orlando Hudson:  Yes I have been here before with you guys.  Yes I know Castillo may not be going anywhere.  However, IF his best offer is 3.5 million from the Nats?  We can improve 2B without long term damage to the team or payroll we have to do it.  What do you do with Castillo?  At this point why do we care?

C) Sign Rick Ankiel.  No he does not want to pitch in NY but perhaps he can be convienced to play CF?  He does not have a lot of suitors at this point and slotting in CF for the Mets and then being the LH backup for Frenchy and Bay has to be enticing.

If Ankiel is not an option things go down hill fast.  Perhaps you can’t find a true everyday guy but there are a few trade options.

C2) Try and complete the trade with the Reds for Arroyo and try to include one of their 3 CF (Taveras, Stubbs, Dickerson) who all were above average defensively last season.   If not then there are other options by trade.

  • The A’s have Crisp, Davis and Sweeney all who have their best value as CF.
  • The Nats also have depth at CF and Justin Maxwell may be out of a spot.
  • Andres Torres with the Giants.  Not a prospect anymore but a guy that can field his spot.
  • Jody Gerut is a backup for the Brewers coming off a bad season.  He had an .845 OPS in 2008.
  • Felix Pie also lost his spot with the O’s.  CF is obviously taken by Jones for years to come.
  • This one would be far fetch but Melky Cabrera.

D) Sign Molina.  It’s gonna happen so…

Yes, I sound a little like the guys who call in to WFAN or the people commenting on Mets.com.  I realize that if the Mets did A-D it would cost a lot of money.  However, with all the negative press the Mets have endured this latest news can’t have fans rushing to the ticket office.

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65 comments

  1. saltygary

    What I would like to know is, if Beltran having surgery without the knowledge of the team is a breach of contract? All speculation by me…but if he had that micro-fracture surgery I think it is fair to say that he will not be what we paid for in the last 2 years of his contract. One of those years he might not even play and last year was a bust because of the same knee.

    If this is a breach of contract, I would have no problem with the powers that be to dump his hobbled ass and take that salary to use somewhere else. Unfortunately for the Mets this is really bad timing in the free agent market, but I am sure there are still trades available.

    1. stickguy

      from listening to XM this AM, and some reports, it seems to matter if it was required or elective. If he has elevtive w/o permission, then he could be in violation of the contract.

    2. trs86

      Based on loop holes I will guess that he is not in breech of his contract at all. It was not elective if he can prove that other doctors suggest it was required.

    3. udontmesswthejohan

      Yeah that’s going to happen. Tha Yankees couldn’t dump a guy in Giambi who took so much juice his pituitary gland was effed up and all but admitted to taking steroids and the Mets are going to void Beltran’s contract for having surgery on his knee.

      Next.

  2. stickguy

    I agree with the general concept. Instead of getting hung up on 1 player or position, look at the team as a whole, and do what you can to put a team on the field (25 guys) that can outscore the other team on a regualr basis (pretty sure this is called a win, right?)

    I am fine (or accepting of) A, B and D. For C, not sure about Ankiel. Can Gomes play CF? any other halfway decent FA?

    For C2, I still am not sure that Arroyo makes sense (based on reported demands from the Reds). Last think I want to see is a knee-jerk reaction gutting of the farm for band aids. Spend some money sure.

    So, stick with the Pinero/Garland guy (Man, Brett Myers only got 3.1 mill. That was IMO a missd opportunity).

    But, no reason to not try and make a minor trade for one of the other listed CF options. none of them should cost that much back.

    with beltran healthy, having pagan and a Carter/Evans/Garko type 5th OF (pagan being 4th and BU CF) was fine. If they have to live without Beltran, then a guy that can legitimately play CF is a must (even someone like Church would have been OK).

    1. trs86

      Gomes can’t play LF much less CF. As for FA Ankiel is about the top of the line in CF and would be useful once Beltran returns. Also I think looking at the lineup, a LH is important.

  3. khmustache

    oy

  4. dirtysanchez

    Welcome to the mets jason bay lol

    I think this open the door BIG TIME for a return by Gado. They have shown more interest in him than laroche and with beltran out, they will need a big bat. Gado i think fits the bill for them. Molina will get done and if ankiel is interested in playing CF, I would love for the mets to look at getting him. This is a blow but not an insurmountable one. I just would like to know why did he wait this long to do this?

    1. DNDJohan aka kistics

      I agree. I don’t know if Delgado is the answer here, but he’s more likely to come back now.

    2. Kingman 26

      Funny, I see it the exact opposite way, as TRS does. Gotta have the younger, healthier player, especially if this is our first crystal ball glance at 2010.

      Delgado is too injury-prone.

      Fine, I am in desperation mode already. Sign Hudson, but better hope he plays the best defense in history, because he will absolutely not be that much of an offensive upgrade.

      And let’s hope FMart is ready….

      1. dirtysanchez

        theres a difference between what the Mets SHOULD pick up and what they are LIKELY to pick up. I was just talking about what they are LIKELY to do. Sure i agree with real on theory that Ankiel,LaRoche and Odog should just be bought but i just dont see that happening at all. I dont agree so much with a Gado signing, especially with laroche out there with NO viable options but it just seems to me that they will make a push for gado because of his bat and murph will probably be a defensive upgrade late in the game :/…life is not without a sense of irony

        1. Kingman 26

          That would be some serious irony wouldn’t it??

          Ah, to be a Met fan…even fun in January!

      2. udontmesswthejohan

        Agreed. I’ve been an advocate of bringing back Delgado, but under the auspices that the rest of the team would be healthy and if he went down there would be others to pick up the slack. If you sign him now, you are asking for a lot of luck that he stays healthy.

    3. trs86

      Yeah, as Kingman said I see this as the Mets now have to have sure things, not risk. Perhaps before Delgado, Endy and a Nady could have filled out the roster. Now I think you have to have guys that will be 100% opening day. Neither of those guys will be.

      1. dirtysanchez

        I can only hope your right…I just dont see ANY interest on the Mets going after laroche…ever. Ankiel i can see but knowing them, they will more than likely give the job to pagan based on his performance last year for them.

  5. billydeewilliams

    This team never ceases to embarrass me. The culture in and around this team needs to change drastically. This is just another reason the mets will continue to be the punchline of mlb.

    I agree with what you’ve written. There’s no impact player on the market right now that can replace Beltran for however long he may be out.

    1. njstuckintx

      Great avatar!

  6. DNDJohan aka kistics

    So… when is the time table for his return? I don’t really care if the Mets are trying to void his contract or not. I just want him back playing for the Mets as early as possible.

    If the 12 week time table is right, he should be able to do some baseball activities early April. Say it takes another 4 weeks for him to get in shape and rehab, that’s early May. I can live with that and I think the Mets can live with Pagan at CF as well. I don’t think Mets need to make such moves as TRS suggested. It would be nice to make those moves which will give some insurance against any set backs Beltran may have, but I don’t think it’s necessity.

    1. trs86

      But in May when we were wrong what do we do then? For me now I can’t assume anything. Thus go out and get guys that can help in the short term, help when he comes back and will not hurt the future.

      1. DNDJohan aka kistics

        How wrong can you be on a arthroscopic surgery? And from Ankiel’s perspective what’s the incentive to signing with the Mets knowing that there all OF positions are pretty much locked up when healthy?

        For Ankiel, even if you sign as a bench player with some other team, he’d have more PAs than the Mets. Unless the Mets overpay to get him, I don’t see him coming to the Mets.

        1. CaseStreet

          “when healthy” are the key words with the Mets.

          Plus, Frenchy doesn’t have anything locked up.

          Ankiel isn’t getting a starting job, so it’ll come down to money.

        2. trs86

          At this point how would he not get time? He gets to fill in for Beltran for the unforeseeable future. Normal scopes don’t take 8-12 weeks. But even still with about 3 more weeks needed you could be looking at 4 months. Also, are we that confident in Frenchy that a LH guy who can play all 3 OF spots would not get his AB’s? For that matter Beltran even if he comes back on time will need a lot of breaks. I could see Ankiel with a healthy Beltran getting 3 starts a week between all 3 OF spots.

  7. saltygary

    Another thing is how long ago was it decided to do this and did the Mets keep this news quite because of season ticket sales?

  8. njstuckintx

    I’m trying to figure out how to write this and come off the way I want it to, so bear with me. I don’t see any of the above moves other than the C’s as being reactionary to Beltran going down.

    Option A would be a good idea, but was before hand anyhow. I think C1 may be a bigger concern that this.

    Option B should become option R or S or T at this point.

    Option C1 could work, assuming he can play CF. For him, it would just be money so that to me is probably the way to go.

    Option C2, IE trade with someone for a CF (taking the Arroyo portion out of the equation), seeing what is out there, my stomach just turns. We do have Pagan and F-Mart. I know concerns about youth and health, but F-Mart is going to have to make a step at some point. Ideally would be steps on his own schedule, but Ice T summed it up best. (It) ain’t like that here! Obviously, that is the G rated version.

    Option D will happen and will add pop to the lineup, but I think that is a foregone conclusion.

    Maybe someone can explain to me how, if Beltran is done for the year, the salary figures get adjusted? Is his whole year’s salaray covered by insurance?

    1. trs86

      Interesting question on the insurance. I have to also wonder if insurance will pay if the issue was deemed unnecessary.

      As for the options. I agree some of them you could say made sense already. My point is that they make more sense now because of the situation.
      A) If everyone was healthy I could SEE the logic of bringing in Delgado as a low risk high reward guy. Don’t have to have him, nice luxury. Now with Beltran out the team needs a hitter, especially LH.
      B) I think now you have to upgrade every position you can. Hudson is an upgrade both defensively and offensively over Castillo. If it’s not going to cost you much more to do it why would you not? Hudson also has the ability to bat in more spots in the order than Castillo does. Before Beltran’s out then Castillo’s improvement does not matter as much. IF Beltran is out the Mets need to increase TEAM offense and defense at any spot they can.
      C) Ankiel can play CF, he is not GG quality but he can hold his own.
      C2) Bringing up Fmart to start the season in my opinion is a bad idea. He needs to go back to AAA, gain confidence and come up when he is not viewed as Beltran’s replacement. Pagan may be fine in CF if his head is in the game. I would still feel more comfortable bringing in another vet known for defense for the bench.
      D) Is a forgone conclusion but the Beltran injury may force the Mets to go ahead and give him the 2nd year instead of 1+1.

  9. metsfan4decades

    Reading everything on this and I still think there is more to this story than we’ve read.

    Beltran’s been in the majors how many years now? He knows exactly what is expected, in regards to his contract. For him to just have surgery and not even notify the Mets makes no sense, in my mind, whatsoever. There has to be another side to this story. If, and it’s a big if, Beltran went ahead and did what he thought was best for him, w/o notifying his employers – speaks volume. I’m just not believing it’s that cut and dried. And the cynic in me is leaning towards the Mets certainly had an idea and someone blew it. Now they want to use the platform to possibly void his contract? If it’s that scenario, then the Mets organization being portrayed as the laughingstock of the ML will continue into the 2010 season.

    That being said….have no idea where we go from here. I assume it all depends on what type surgery, best guess for return, best guess for the state of his knee(s) for the rest of the season. Short term, I think we can live with Pagan. Long term, well….how close if FMart to being ready?

    1. Kingman 26

      Last year it was out there that Beltran was angry at the Met staff, and as he is aging a bit and is clearly going to try for another huge deal when this one ends, I think he has basically said screw the Mets, I am going to get the best doctors I can, as my next deal will be my last and we are talking huge money here.

      Sad, but very possibly true.

      1. metsfan4decades

        This reminds me of the interview Omar gave on air with the SNY booth the day after the Halladay rumor to the Mets surfaced. I think Omar did the interview as some type of damage control between that rumor that surfaced and the Bernazard fiasco.

        Anyway, they asked him about the health of the Mets players at that point. Omar said something like: ‘we trust the HFSP implicity, our own Met doctors and trainers as well. But sometimes, you have to take the advice of putting one of your core players on extended DL and/or surgery, against what’s best for the team’.

        All I could think of was ‘wow, you can’t really be that dumb as to say what I think you just said, on the air’. Bascially admitting to doctors advising some of these players needed to be on the DL and/or surgery but the Mets would rather rush them back, ‘for the good of the team’. Like instead of putting Beltran on the DL back then, we’ll give him a cortisone shot and send him back in the field after 3 days rest….

        If something like that scenario was the norm, can anyone blame Beltran for trying to do what he thinks is best for him, not what the Met organization thinks is best for them…uh….him?????

    2. DNDJohan aka kistics

      I agree with trying to void his contract. Why try to void his contract unless he’s out for a year or two? When healthy, Beltran is the best CF out there. So why are the Mets trying to get rid of him? Or is the debacle to save couple million dollars?

      As I have said above, I think the Mets can live with Pagan short term. But relying on FMart to be the long term solution would be very risky. If Beltran is out beyond June, I’d seek who’s available for CF.

      1. trs86

        But how can we trust anything after last year? We can’t assume he will be back anytime. Go get someone who can fill in now, all year, bench when back, and does not hurt long-term.

    3. trs86

      I think some of this could have to do with compensation issues. Perhaps the Mets are not trying to void a contract but receive money for time lost? Considering the guy is going on the DL and being paid by the Mets for something he “chose” to do. I think even maybe there could be some insurance issues.

  10. DNDJohan aka kistics

    This incident really goes to show you how unhappy Beltran was with the Mets medical staff last year. We’ve all heard the rumblings that he wasn’t happy with the way the Mets handled his injury.

    Maybe his surgery will be better for his performance down the road rather than having a nagging injury all throughout the season.

    All I want is for Beltran to come back early and play like Beltran.

  11. prismo

    Agreed TRS, I’m now on board with signing LaRoche.

    Having Murphy and FMart/Pagan in the lineup is not an option. Those two spots could end up each hitting .250, then you have the pitcher’s spot, and Molina who’s OBP may be under .300.

    LaRoche would give more balance to a lineup with a scrub in CF (even if it’s only for a month), and he’s much much much much much much more likely to stay healthy than Delgado.

    Ankiel would be a nice insurance possibility as well. He’ll play average defense and is solid at the plate.

    1. prismo

      *whose

      (sorry, can’t help but correct myself)

  12. dirtysanchez

    what bothers me is how can this team be SOOOO dysfunctional? We have got to be the laughing stock of the league…what other club do you seriously see this happen to? This is getting rediculous and they need a SERIOUS front office overhaul if we are ever going to be taken as a serious organization. Thanks for reading my rant lol

    1. trs86

      Agreed.

  13. prismo

    Also, the Mets are morons for making a big stink about this. Did they think for a second about the bad press they’d get if they threatened action on Beltran?

    They should have just went with it and scolded Beltran behind his back.

    And hey, maybe FIRE RAY RAMIREZ and the medical staff.

  14. dirtysanchez

    I know this is a completly stupid idea but what do you think about bringing Damon…he has played in 1294 games at center and is also almost out of options on a club..

    1. njstuckintx

      Just to be completely silly and conspiracy theory like, Boras tells Beltran to get surgery so Damon can get signed by the Mets at a higher salary…. Highly unlikely, but you never know. heh.

    2. udontmesswthejohan

      Worth some consideration, but ultimately there is just too much ground for him to cover at Citi and if the reports about Bay’s range prove true, then it’s too much of a gamble.

    3. trs86

      Problem is they would have to have add a rover to defense to add a cut off man.

  15. CaseStreet

    I completely agree with your plan, since I’ve been begging for LaRoche and recently Ankiel.

    Ankiel should compete with Pagan for CF to replace Beltran’s defense.
    LaRoche brings the added power lost from Beltran.

    I still think we need to have a backup plan for Reyes. Lopez may have to sign a cheap one year contract.

    Oh yeah, we need a LHP reliver before Feliciano’s arm falls off.

    And we need SP depth. Even if we do get Pineiro, that means our backups for post-injury Santana, Perez and Maine will be post-injury Nieve and Niese. That doesn’t give me much confidence.

    Pagan-Castillo-Reyes-Wright-Bay-Molina-LaRoche-Frenchy

    Had someone tell me METS stands for My Entire Team Sucks!

    On the bright side, remember how the Yankees entered the 09 season, with A-Roid out till May 8. Hope Beltran has a similar recovery.

    1. wannybackstra

      Shouse is a guy I would have liked for LHP but he just signed with the Sox.

  16. khmustache

    i’m in an office full of red sox/yankee/phillies fans…… somebody shoot me please….

    1. dirtysanchez

      .:: loads up his gun ::.

    2. metsfan4decades

      Oh, you poor guy….

  17. stickguy

    Not really sure this is a trainer issue. They just do what they are told by the FO and medical staff.

    Obviously we still need the full story to come out (way too much speculation at this point), but to me the real question is, is there a problem with the HSS docs being able to diagnose and recommend treatments, or is it the FO that is making decisions against their will?

  18. udontmesswthejohan

    I always find it really funny when people say that the Mets need to get new doctors when people, if they can afford it, come from around the country and the world to NYC to get treatment.

    Here is the wikipedia link for the Hospital for Special Surgery.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_for_Special_Surgery

    “The 2007 edition of U.S. News and World Report ranked HSS as the top hospital in the country for orthopedics as well as the nation’s fourth-best for rheumatology. According to New York Magazine’s “Best Hospitals” issue, HSS is the best hospital in New York City’s tri-state area for knee surgery, spine surgery and hip replacement.”

    Unfortunately, the problem here is the same old song and dance. It’s the failure of the Mets as an orginization to properly get out in front with regard to public relations. I’m talking to you Jay Horowitz.

    1. metsfan4decades

      Agreed. Remember the way he handled that situation with Doc signing the wall at that new club in Citi field? They had to back off that whole ‘we’re taking it down b/c you defaced the wall’ mindset when fan after fan expressed outrage. They finally compromised and move his signature to another place at Citi.

      1. udontmesswthejohan

        Yeah. Nothing against the guy as by all accounts the players and the press seem to really like the guy, but at some point you have to ask yourself why the Mets time and again find themselves in these situations. I just don’t get it.

  19. khmustache

    btw, adam laroche just signed with the dbacks

  20. dirtysanchez

    HAHAHAH

    Dirty – 1
    Real – 0

    DBACKS SIGN LAROCHE

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/01/dbacks-sign-adam-laroche.html

    1. CaseStreet

      I guess you have REALLY high hopes on Murphy or Delgado.

      1. dirtysanchez

        not at all, just knew the mets were not going to get laroche…i truely believe the mets have their sight on gado. If he is snatched up then murph with be lead guy and a small/outside possibility that they sign garko

        1. CaseStreet

          just goes to show you that having a plan isn’t the same thing as having a good plan

          1. dirtysanchez

            hahaha mets 2010 season motto

    2. trs86

      Yup, I would guess that this deal was in place before the Mets could think about making a move.

      1. dirtysanchez

        maybe…had the mets shown some interest, laroche would be in a better situation with joining us but im sure adam just jumped at the first offer since he declined that two year deal

    3. metsfan4decades

      It’s the night of the midnight taxi cab ride all over again. The timing of the situation leaves not many options….

      1. dirtysanchez

        that was a really tough night and your right. What just grinds my gears is how they can keep doing this to themselves. The taxi ride was a freak accident but this could have been done/handled much better. When will they ever get embarrassed by these kind of things.

  21. GravediggerHebner

    Well hindsight reveals my endorsement of Mike Cameron would’ve been an even better idea than the great idea I already thought it was when he was just going to be the LF.

    Can’t trade Angel Pagan for anything now, he’s the starting CF for who truly knows how long.

    I think like others have said above, the Mets interest in Rick Ankiel should have grown like the Grinch’s heart on Christmas today.

  22. Mr North Jersey

    As far as outfielders/1st baseman go, isn’t the Chris Carter of the Wagner trade a better option than FMART or Delgado?

    I know he supposedly has a decent bat and he has been playing winterball.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=l135&t=p_pbp&pid=452080

  23. metsfan4decades

    You know, someone mentioned it earlier, concerning the Mets PR.
    I think the Mets could benefit by hiring the same PR firm that handled that whole ARod debacle last year. I think Jay needs help…

    ARod basically was ‘outed’ as being on the 2003 tested positive for steroids list. They call a press conference, he deals with that, they announce all the kids organizations and the like he would speak at during the year, concerning use of steroids. He has surgery, comes back, and flies completely under the radar all season. No more pictures (re: kissing himself in the mirror), no more middle page pictures/scandals with his latest flame, etc. He play the rest of the season, plays pretty good, says all the right things (or even better yet, nothing at all), has a good post season for once and voila! he’s no longer the lead story. Of course it helped immensely that the Yankees had a damn fine season.

    I think it’s time the Mets think about hiring a real professional PR firm to turn their image around.

  24. steveo

    And to reward us fans this year we will get an overwieght and over paid catcher and as a bonus a currently injured Delgado who the great pr Machine will say is on. the road to recovery that’s great GM’ing there.

  25. gipperpdx

    Motherfracker!!!

    This team is such a mess….it’s more soap opera than sports franchise. Why no surgery earlier? Why the miscommunication? Can you blame Carlos for not trusting the advice of the quacks on the Mets medical staff?? How does Omar not top the D-bags offer for LaRoche??

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