Update (12:19pm): The Angels will pay $21.5MM of the $23.5MM left of Matthews’ deal (over 2 years).
(12:03pm): Matt Cerrone says “the deal is what the deal is” according to people in the Mets organization.
(11:54am): The Mets will send Brian Stokes to the Angels, via Jon Morosi of FoxSports.
(11:30am): The Mets will send a “low salaried pitcher” to the Angels off the big league roster, via Jerry Crasnick of ESPN/BA.
(10:53am): Matt Cerrone of MetsBlog fame is hearing that this may be part of a three-team deal. Stay tuned.
(10:48am): Heyman says on WFAN that Castillo is NOT included in the deal. He believes the Angels may pay $20MM of the $23.5MM that’s due to Matthews.
Via Jon Heyman and his tweeting, the Mets are acquiring Gary Matthews Jr. from the Angels, according to one of his AL sources.
Matthews is due $11MM in 2010 and $12MM in 2011, but according to Heyman, the angels will “pay a lot of $” on his contract. Beltran’s expected back in late April, but the Mets are “concerned.”
Some quick stats:
OPS: .866 (’06), .742 (’07), .675 (’08), .697 (’09)
UZR (OF): 15.5 (’05), 1.0 (’06), -12.3 (’07), -9.3 (’08), -14.5 (’09)
Matthews is 35 years old, and I hope the Mets are getting rid of a contract even though the Angels are paying some of Matthews’. Talk about declining numbers…
421 comments
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
The Mets are just really making hard for themselves.
If this is true and the Mets got GMJ for stokes then even if GMJ is free why would we want him on the roster?
I mean since the news of Beltran’s surgery how many centerfielders were available that would be better than GMJ?
fongy2
1/22/2010-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
Agree totoally North Jers, If the Angels had cut Juicer
and picked up ALL of his salary, Why would you want him
on your team?, let alone giving up ANYONE for him??
If anything, given Juicer’s ability and age, if you take
him off of The Angels’ hands THEY’RE supposed to send
you a player!!…..Omar really is friggin’ lost in this
job!…Do we have Scouts?? Does Omar have anyone helping
him with the budget??…What IS the friggin’ plan here??
trs86
1/22/2010-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
Who do you want to backup Pagan that has starting experience and will cost less than 1 million?
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
who gives a shyt about the money I am tired of this nickel and dime b.s. what now all of a sudden players of Cory Sullvan’s caliber are too expensive?
Give me a freakin break
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
No, that’s not the point. The point is that players of Cory Sullivan’s caliber are not starters if you need them to be, they have never done it. Players of Cory Sullivan’s caliber are back ups precisely because that’s what they’ve proven to be over time.
If you can get a guy for Cory Sullivan caliber salary who in the past has shown he can start, then that’s a fair gamble on the chance he might be able to demonstrate that he can start again if you need him to. If God forbid Beltran is out for 4-6 months, if Pagan and FMart succumb to the injuries they’re prone to succumb to, you can pay Cory Sullivan a mil to stand out there and surely suck or you can pay GMJ a mil to stand out there and hope he finds a semblance of his former self, a former self that Cory Sullivan simply doesn’t have.
trs86
1/22/2010-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
EXACTLY.
Omar needed to find a guy with CF starting experience. Guys like Reed and Sullivan don’t apply. In fact we most likely have a guy like that in Jesus Feliciano.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
.250 .338 .382 .720 for Cory Sullivan last year in very limited AB’s. Signed for about 1 million last year.
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry Grave It sounds nice but if you are going to tell me now the best my GM can do to find a CF is GMJ then we are in more trouble than I 1st thought.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not telling you that. I said elsewhere in this thread that the people reacting negatively to this trade will have a viable argument if Reed Johnson signs elsewhere for a mil or less annually because to me he’s the only guy on the FA market capable of filling the back up role yet stepping in to start if you need him, so I say let’s see what happens with RJ before we lose our minds over this, that’s all.
Seriously, go to the available remaining FA OF list and tell me who can play all 3 OF spots and possibly give you at least OK numbers offensively that will cost a mil. I see Reed Johnson. I see a couple other guys who could probably do it, Randy Winn maybe but for 1 mil? Given the recent “defections” by guys who were seemingly about to sign here as FA who can guarantee anyone wants to come? You trade for a guy, he HAS to come.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, and even then coming to NY for 1M is not the same as going to say Arizona for 1M.
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
I see your point but I guess I am not doing a good job of expressing mine.
If you are basing this trade on the 1 million dollars then you are points are all valid.
What I am trying to say is I don’t base the quality of this trade on the financial aspect but rather simply is this the best player we could of gotten to be a everday CF?
The answer for me is I thought we could have done better but again I think I am asking for too much since now according to trs if I can’t come up with a better option I shouldn’t expect Minaya to either.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
OK I better understand your perspective and thank you for elaborating.
I agree that there are a large number of people who “could be an everyday CF” I can’t possibly argue against that.
I just feel that it’s hard to recruit them when you can’t make any particular promise to them about playing time. Who knows when/if Beltran will be back? I would’ve much rather had Ankiel for example even for the $3.25 mil that he got, but I’m guessing he gets more playing time in KC than he would expect to get here. So I personally don’t see a lot of people who would embrace coming into a situation of such uncertainty.
But I see your perspective.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
And your suggestion is always.
I don’t know what he should have done. He’s GM. I expect him to do better.
That’s constructive at it’s finest.
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
wow now since I can’t come up with a better alternative I shouldn’t expect my Gm to.
too bad I guess I don’t have a leg to stand on then.
prismo
1/22/2010-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
After the news that we only have to pay him $2MM over 2 years, I guess this isn’t a TERRIBLE deal. Still don’t really think it helps the team, but maybe it doesn’t hurt either.
More importantly…CAN WE SIGN A FRIGGIN STARTER NOW!?
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Just because you can get shyt for free it doesn’t mean you should stock your shelves with it.
jaydh
1/22/2010-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
seriously… i hope we are terrible this season just so that everyone gets fired. i cant stand omar anymore.
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
I would never go that far.
fongy2
1/22/2010-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Even I wouldn’t root for THAT! BUT at this
Rate, I can easily see Jerry being canned
be The AllStar break, THEN Omar finally
getting the axe in September while we
struggle around .500 in Third or Forth place.
trs86
1/22/2010-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
Right because we brought in GMJR for a 5th OF. That did it right there. Doomed.
darknova306
1/22/2010-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
I want Omar and Jerry gone very badly, but hoping for failure is something i can’t do.
fongy2
1/22/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
I’d be willing to pay a little more for a guy who can actually play at an average MLB level!
trs86
1/22/2010-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
I am guessing that as for me.
Reed: .255 .330 .412 .742
GMJR: .250 .336 .361 .697
How much more are you going to pay for 50 points in SLG?
jaydh
1/22/2010-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
This team just continues to be the laughing stock….
trs86
1/22/2010-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Yup and one of the reasons is how our fanbase continually overreacts to every little move.
jaydh
1/22/2010-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
you and i never see eye to eye, so i’m not even going to bother.
trs86
1/22/2010-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
Doom and gloom to you too buddy.
jaydh
1/22/2010-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
Kingman 26
1/22/2010-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
LOL-let’s hope the team does terrible–nice work Jay….
Kingman 26
1/22/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
This is a poor move but the laughingstock is the “fan” who hopes their team is terrible.
metsfan4decades
1/22/2010-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
You can’t call yourself a fan AND hope your team does terrible.
Now, I hope the Phils do terrible and the Yanks don’t repeat but I’m still hoping for a contenting Met team this year. I could be delusional, I know, but that’s my fantasy for this year.
trs86
1/22/2010-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Mets fans including me are something else.
Omar needs a backup CF with starting experience because of Pagan’s injury history. He goes out and gets one for 2M/2 years at the cost of a guy who is out of options and may have been lost.
It’s not a great deal, it’s not a bad deal. It’s just a deal. You guys have so many reasons to crush Omar, in fact I have done quite a bit the last 7 months myself. But deals like this one are not one of them.
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
TRS you are bending backwards if you really believe that GNJ was the best we could do?
I don’t care if he was for free.
So now GMj is a good move because we got him for 1 million a year? so where do you draw the line at 5 million a year its a bad move then?
trs86
1/22/2010-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
OK so lets here your ideas on a 5th OF with starting experience that can be had for less than 1 million?
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
There is no point in you and me debating trs so I will spare you the key presses.
You just can’t be reasoned with.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
Not without facts, you are correct.
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
yep you got me there. darn
tkfj
1/22/2010-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
LOL,lo fricken l. This is not even surprising.
So now it’s obvious no one in the Mets FO knows what their doing, we all thought it, but now we know for sure. I wanted Omar gone a long time ago, should have cut our loses then but now….This isn’t even a reaction to the GMJ deal, because honestly I was happy that Molina and Delgado did’nt sign here. Not necessarily a vote of confiedence for Omar, because he still pursued, but w/e.
Anyways, while Stokes was not a key cog to the bullpen at least he served a semi-productive role, meanwhile GMJ does’nt really do anything that we could’nt find in any FA OF.
trs86
1/22/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
Go figure that you would show up.
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
For a $1m a year, it’s not as if Matthews can’t be cut.
Moreover, if he does somehow have a resurgence while Beltran is out, he may very well have some trade value after Beltran returns given his minimal cost.
trs86
1/22/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. Or frees up Pagan who most likely has more value.
njstuckintx
1/22/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, the outrage on this is quite large. I view this as we picked up cheap and bad insurance for Beltran and created a small hole in the bull pen. I hope this is the tipping point where moves start happening. Who knows, this could open a spot for Maine in the bullpen, even though we all know his attitude would take a major nosedive on that issue. I can’t be outraged, because GMJ could always be dropped, as we only have 2 million owed, or pawned of for something down the line. Losing Stokes certainly doesn’t affect my happy meter at all.
trs86
1/22/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
Have not even created a hole in the pen. We have about 12-15 players competing for 7 spots and at least 4 of those are locks.
njstuckintx
1/22/2010-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly. I think this is all misplaced anger cause the big news of the day didn’t involved Arroyo, Harang, Sheets, Smoltz or Garland.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
Hilariously this move helps in a small way to pave the way for one of those names you mention, because it in theory opens a space on the ML pitching staff for a bullpen guy to fit in if signed or a starter to slide into the bullpen to make room for a new starter if signed.
But lets not see that possibility because then we wouldn’t be able to throw out the baby with the bathwater. LMAO at this thread!
trs86
1/22/2010-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. People are so upset with Omar in general that they are taking any chance they can to bash him…
I like this one.
I hope Omar is not looking at Molina.
Man Omar has done so much damage we can’t even get Molina.
I hope Omar is not looking at Pineiro.
Man why didn’t we get Pineiro? Can’t even give the extra 1 million?
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
I just don’t get it. So the Mets got a guy that they really don’t like but because he is dirt cheap they said “heck, why not we can always just cut him” and at the same time they got rid of a pitcher that they had no love for?
Whatever happened to getting the player that best fills our needs?
Is GMJ it?
tkfj
1/22/2010-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
Why make the move at all? What purpose does GMJ serve on this team? It’s not the deal that matters it’s the lack of intelligence our FO has on any baseball matters. Dismiss, dismiss, some fans love to dismiss stupidity, they are still doing it after numerous stupid moves.
trs86
1/22/2010-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
You are just angry because they traded your closer. It’s ok…..
tkfj
1/22/2010-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
You are right, I am.
trs86
1/22/2010-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
Who says they don’t like him? I am guessing the see him as a guy that has starting experience and can play multiple OF positions for 1 million a year. They have no OF depth and tons of middle relief depth. I don’t see a big deal here.
fongy2
1/22/2010-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
The “Big Deal” is the fear that, this is Omar’s
“Big Deal”. His answer to our suddenly,very serious problem in Centerfield and to our Clean-up
spot in the line-up.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
UH Fongy, who did you expect them to get to backup Pagan while waiting on Beltran?
Now all of a sudden the guy that backed up Pagan had to be able to hit clean up? What are you talking about?
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed Omar Minaya in a bid to address the need for a everyday CF should Beltran not be back in the expected timeframe scoured MLB and GMJ was the best he can come up with.
I will say it again if this is true all I can say is -sigh.
Let’s just hope Minaya was having an off day and better moves are still to come.
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
I’m just glad someone (albeit Omar) besides me thinks Stokes stinks.
tkfj
1/22/2010-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
Too bad, GMJ “stinks” worse.
njstuckintx
1/22/2010-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
I had hopes but no faith for Stokes.
I don’t hate the move. I kind of “Nothing” the move. I still think Pagan will play himself into the CF starting role out of spring training and hurt something right before Beltran comes back.
trs86
1/22/2010-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. It’s just a move. Omar trading from depth to get depth.
fongy2
1/22/2010-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
More like trading a question from within
a question for an already known, bad answer
trs86
1/22/2010-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
Again Fongy, CF with starting experience willing to come to NY for 1 million or less. Who you got?
fongy2
1/22/2010-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
So again, YOU set the rules?
Only a mil can be spent on
another OFer?
And if you could get Byrnes
or Reed Johnson or almost
anyone else for that or less
it wouldn’t be a better bet than Matthews???Who Again,
Can’t play…AND will be
36 during the season.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
I am setting the rules because that is what Matthews Jr cost.
Forget money…
Who did you want?
fongy2
1/22/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
I’m with you on tht Wanny, Stokes does pretty much stink,
BUT not as bad as Juicer! Who simply can’t play!
whataputz
1/22/2010-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Great move. I’m always in favor of depleting an already weak bullpen of one of its best pitchers to acquire a washed up useless cf. Mets in 2012!
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
What about Stokes makes him one of the best pitchers in the pen? His inability to strike anyone out? Or is it his complete career-long failure to be effective against left handed hitters?
How could a ROOGY be so valuable?
trs86
1/22/2010-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
You and I went back and forth for a while on Stokes. I basically agreed with you that at best he was #11/12. The Mets in my opinion have done a great job adding depth to this year’s pen candidates so in my opinion they traded from a strength to fill a weakness. It’s not a bad move. Unless someone can show me a CF with starting experience that would come to NY for 1 million or for that matter 2M.
fongy2
1/22/2010-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
He’s not man, he is an 11th Pitcher on an
average staff. But I think the problem is
giving up ANYTHING to get a guy who can’t
play AND the feeling that, THIS is Omar’s answer to what has become a big issue, No Beltran to
start the season AND who knows what he comes
back as AND if he’ll be able to stay healthy when
he does come back.
Why give up anything at all for Matthews?
He wouldn’t be available in a few weeks if Omar
couldn’t find someone better AND once we know
more about Beltran’s recovery??
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
I think the Mets look at Matthews as not necessarily someone who can’t play well but someone who just hasn’t played well.
I’m not saying agree with that but I’m guessing that is their belief.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
Would he have been available? Was he a lock to come to the Mets? Now he has no choice.
But back to your point on the bigger issue. Exactly what did you want Omar to do to back up Pagan or for that matter start ahead of him which seems to be your concern.
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
The truth is everyone knows GMJ sucks to a person everyone’s initial reaction was this has to be because of another move ie trading a Castillo or a 3 way with another club not a straight up trade.
stickguy
1/22/2010-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
stokes is a big Eh. trading him is not the proplem.
Our new 5th OF on a 2/2 contract? Very reasonable.
so far, so good.
My bone of contention is really that it would be nice if they could get a better player. GMJ is just really, really bad now.
this, of course, would have been the perfect place to bring up a guy from the minors to supply the depth. No, not F Mart, who really needs to be starting in AAA until he is ready to start in the majors.
They had no other MiL OF with some experience to call up for a month? Feliciano play CF? SOmeone must have been doing it at AAA when F Mart wasn’t there!
this also points out that Omar needs to circle the wagons around the farm and give everyone another year to develop (if at all possible).
trs86
1/22/2010-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Stick they needed someone with starting experience because of Pagan’s injury history. Also, we don’t really know how long Beltran will be out.
stickguy
1/22/2010-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
I think you are too hung up on starting experience. Besides, a AAA guy would have pelnty of starting experience down there!
bench guy should be able to step in and play FT for a while, otherwise they are matt stairs. Look at pagan last year. He was never a starter.
I would rather have a younger/talented guy without ML starting experience over a broken down wreck like GMJ.
To take it to an extreme, Bonds is available and he has plenty of starting experience!
fongy2
1/22/2010-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed!!! Or Preston Wilson!
I mean, C’mon!!!…Matthews has alot
of Starting Experience for two reasons,
Juicing And then A huge Salary.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Some people get it because of luck, some earn it, some cheat for it. If he did, does that change the fact that he got it?
fongy2
1/22/2010-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
“If he did”?
He admitted he did!
trs86
1/22/2010-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
OK? Again, does that change the fact that he has experience?
If I get rich by cheating people out of their money does it change the fact that I am rich? It might make me a sorry SOB but a rich one.
stickguy
1/22/2010-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
TRS is right to point out that the pen is already very crowded, and more so every time you decide to shove another SP (maine) out there.
I als othink it will be a strength if a couple of the flyer guys (japanese guy, escobar, parnell) work out.
Even then, they have a lot of depth, and guys like Neive needing a home.
lets see, as of now, we could have misch, feliciano (the 2 lefties) with K Rod, Parnell, Neive, Escobar, japanese guy (what the heck is his name anyway?). Plus whatever other arms are floating around in ST.
I also hope they sign Gregg for the 8th inning role, although smoltz could still show up instead.
So, stokes was no lock anyway.
fongy2
1/22/2010-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
My friend, The RedSox had a crowded BP this time last yr
and by The AllStar break were seaching for BP Help.
Additionally, They had better Pitchers in their BP.
It ain’t like our Pen is crowded with Stars and can’t
miss guys.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
And it would not be if Stokes were there. It would look about the same.
mrose
1/22/2010-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
The more I think about this move, i just don’t care, lol.
I liked Stokes but am not sad to see him leave and its $1M a year for this guy…
Now, if we still don’t make any other moves this offseason, i’ll be pissed, but this is just…a more or less nothing move…
trs86
1/22/2010-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed…
trs86
1/22/2010-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
Looking at Smotlz and we have the following guys on the 40 man roster or ST invite.
Dessens
Dickey
Egbert
Escobar
Everts (has a chance to replace Stokes in my opinion)
Feliciano
Figgy
Green
Igarashi
Kunz
Lopez
Marshall
Misch
Nieve
Parnell
Krod
Stoner
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
1 year of smoltz…
trs86
1/22/2010-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
OK? You want him for 2? LOL.
I get your point that Stokes could be here longer but he also could not be sent down.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
lol no way for 2 but still…i dont see how GMJ will be more productive that stokes over two years..
fongy2
1/22/2010-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, THAT looks like a lights out BullPen!
trs86
1/22/2010-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
Right and Stokes would have made it better?
tkfj
1/22/2010-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
Honestly tell me that Stokes isnt better than 1/3 to 1/2 of the players on that list. One more question, one less answer….
trs86
1/22/2010-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
Stokes is not better than 1/3 of the list much less half.
Krod, Feliciano, Escobar, Iragashi most likely are locks.
Misch (maybe a lock because LHP)
Parnell, Green, Nieve, Everts, Stokes, Dessens, would have been competing for 2 spots.
tkfj
1/22/2010-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
Just because we have depth in the bullpen, does’nt mean anything. Depth is only nice if the players providing that depth are any good…..
trs86
1/22/2010-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
Right and Stokes does nothing to change that.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
and niether does an INJURY prone declining(ability) OF asked to cover another INJURY prone OF…
trs86
1/22/2010-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
Matthews JR has played at least 100 games a year ever year but 2004.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
I just dont see the logic in trading youth with potential for a guy thats abilities are diminishing every year and asking him to potentially fill in to play CF IN A PITCHERS PARK. We have bay and frenchy in the corners and last time i checked they were not the fastest guys around. How the hell do you expect GMJ to help with that. Meanwhile, we are again…hoping…some trash heap talent will compete with other trash heap talent for 7 spots. Bullpens are a risky commodity, ill be the first to agree with that but to ask me to think this move “helps” the mets is not going to happen.
mrose
1/22/2010-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
Stokes is 30…not exactly “youth”
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
but im sure would be more productive than a 35 year old useless OF asked to cover the outfield in citifield
mrose
1/22/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
i highly doubt that, there is no way to compare the two who are at much different positions. I never had the utmost confidence in Sheets.. he had good runs and had bad ones. I never saw him as the 8th inning guy or closer in waiting. GMJ is hopefully a backup outfielder and he can be fine in that role and if he has to start, its better than what else is available.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
Lets see for how much reed johnson signs this late in the offseason before we say he is better than what else is avail. Im sure you meant stokes instead of sheets. I just see stokes a s a potential work in progress..you can still work to improve stokes…GMJ is on teh other side of the hill with his talent and is only goign in one direction….
trs86
1/22/2010-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
You could work to improve Stokes, just not in AAA. Again, I don’t see a big deal. Especially considering that Nieve will most likely be forced into the pen.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
it isnt a “big deal” but i still think its a dumb trade and the mets lose depth in the bullpen for a guy who is on the decline and is being asked to cover CF in citi. Fine if you dont agree that stokes makes the pen but at least there is a decent option in AAA that can come up if there happens to be an injury in the mets bp. For the most part, Stokes has been pretty healthy…can you say the same abotu GMJ?
trs86
1/22/2010-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
He’s not a AAA option because he could not be sent down based on what I remember from last year.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
It’s not like the Angels play in a homer-dome and his defense in CF was not that bad last year.
Who knows if Stokes would have even made the team?
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
Compaired to the option for “tryouts”, i think he would have made the team
AnthonyDiComo tweet:
Telling defensive metric on Matthews…his UZR (measure of runs saved/given up) has steadily declined from +15.5 in 2005 to -14.5 last year
jcrasnick tweet:
Gary Matthews Jr. was 1st among 107 MLB outfielders in FanGraphs’ UZR/150 rankings in 2002. Last year, he was 109th out of 115 OF.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
Check out his CF numbers.
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
I understand the desire to want to see the positive in things especially when as Mets fans we have not had much to feel positive about.
I understand that Minaya’s trade for GMJ can be seen as a no brainer when the Mets are getting him for free.
What I don’t understand is this mentality lately of settling for less and being happy with it.
I guess my standards for my GM are just too high. I expect too much from him maybe that is my whole problem with Minaya going back to last season. Maybe, if I didn’t expect so much from him I could say yes this is a good move getting GMJ for next to nothing.
Maybe…or maybe this is just a bad move.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
I agree we should have gotten uh… uh… hold on a minute I will have to get back to you.
fongy2
1/22/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah b/c NO ONE’s available(in your mind),
we take on a guy who can’t play.
Yeah, makes sense.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
Again, come up with ONE name Fongy. Just ONE and we can debate if that guy stinks or does not stink as bad as GMJR.
fongy2
1/22/2010-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
Very, very few stink as much as
Matthews.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
Can’t do it can you?
mrose
1/22/2010-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
if GMJ is as much of a cancer as people think…
they release him and eat 2M…
more or less what they said about Sheff last year..
I see what you are saying about being happy with less, but beyond the Molina/Piniero thing, What could he have done without overspending?
YES the Mets have money to spend, but why spend it if we don’t have to? Sure, maybe we could have traded for a different CF or signed a diff one, but for more money with no proof of how long Beltran will be out, its a waste of money. A waste we could use the rest of this offseason for the people who want to continue to hold for big money or for a midseason trade..
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
I would like to ask the people who hate this GMJ acquisition to please take a moment and do me a favor. Please look over this list and tell me who on it is going to come to the Mets for $1 mil annually to back up all 3 OF spots and potentially fill in as a starter in CF if the worst comes of the current injury situation there. Also please at least factor in the back of your minds that recently multiple free agents have received fair market value offers from the Mets and for whatever reason (just preferred to go elsewhere, or maybe frightened off by strange GM and weird injury situation recently) have gone elsewhere. Thank you in advance for your time and consideration.
Left fielders
Garret Anderson (38) – Type B, not offered arb
Marlon Anderson (36)
Emil Brown (35)
Eric Byrnes (34)
Johnny Damon (36) – Type A, not offered arb
David Dellucci (36)
Cliff Floyd (37)
Jonny Gomes (29)
Reed Johnson (33)
Greg Norton (37)
Wily Mo Pena (28)
Gary Sheffield (41)
Fernando Tatis (35) – Type B, not offered arb
Marcus Thames (33)
Randy Winn (36) – Type B, not offered arb
Center fielders
Alfredo Amezaga (32)
Rocco Baldelli (28)
Endy Chavez (32)
Darin Erstad (36)
Ryan Freel (34)
Reed Johnson (33)
Right fielders
Jermaine Dye (36) – Type A, not offered arb
Brian Giles (39) – Type B, not offered arb
Jonny Gomes (29)
Gabe Gross (30)
Geoff Jenkins (35)
Xavier Nady (31) – Type B, not offered arb
Randy Winn (36) – Type B, not offered arb
trs86
1/22/2010-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
Grave they don’t do that. You don’t understand their logic. The guy is bad so you criticize Omar. It is not the poster’s job to find players it’s Omar’s and he did a bad job here and we are the laughing stock.
tkfj
1/22/2010-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
Everyone I would advise you just not to bother.
Key rule: TRS is never wrong, and if he is you will never get him to admit it.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
Admitted it plenty of times. TK only problem is you only show up every once and a while when you see the opportunity to bitch. Again, if you ask frequent readers, I am stubborn but have admitted I am wrong MANY times. Just ask your our friend Wanny.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
TRS I mean no offense but this will probably come off that way so here goes: You can sometimes be quite blunt and confrontational (and so can I, I don’t absolve myself of that) with people who disagree with you.
In this instance I am simply trying to promote a moment of calm, a deep breath for anyone on either side of the debate, to really think and come up with an alternative proposal, and then possibly discuss it further.
And when you make a comment like this one above, you’re not helping me promote calm. Even if someone genuinely wanted to take on my “challenge” they’d be less inclined with their hackles raised by your comment.
I hope that’s not unfair and that my point is made to anyone reading. It doesn’t have to be either “Omar’s great and this is a wonderful deal” or “Omar’s a schmuck and this is simply the latest stupid thing on the long list of stupid things he’s done.”
There can be gray area, and if anyone other than me sees that gray area I’d love to discuss it with them. If everyone is simply so polarized that that can’t happen, so be it. But I wanted to at least try.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
True, you are right. After reading these comments I am just amazed how many want to call the move stupid instead of analyzing it.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
or maybe they have analyzed it and felt it was a stupid move…just because they have a different analysis than you doesnt make they didnt analyze it real
trs86
1/22/2010-1:57pm at 1:57 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps some did. That is why I keep asking who did they want.
So far you are the only one to even give a name.
mrose
1/22/2010-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
I see both sides of this and typically am not as blunt as TRS can be …
Even in my everyday life i’m a big fan of supporting arguments (i’m not a lawyer or anything). I think sometimes people on both sides of anything here can just be short with “omar sucks” or “you have no logic”…
but as we know, the comments section is.. well its for us to react as that guy in MC’s blog said eaerlier
trs86
1/22/2010-1:58pm at 1:58 pm (UTC -4)
I think I see both sides here. I am still neutral on the deal, just overreacting to the overreaction.
I could have lived with or without the deal.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
Understood and my goal is not to discourage quick, reaction comments.
But one of the things I appreciate about NLEC and TRDMB is that (so far anyway :_) ) we’ve been allowed to have long wordy debates about the many variables of many topics, and I’m just trying to see through all the quick reaction comments and expound on them a bit in a friendly way.
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
Again Minaya is held to a standard of that of a fan.
If you expect your GM to only perform and be as creative as an everyday fan then we are in trouble.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
But again, when you just say I want something better but set no standards of what better is it seems difficult to debate.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
For me it’s not that I am holding him to the standard of a fan, but rather I feel it’s unfair of me to just criticize a move (or a non-move) by saying “well he’s the professional GM he should know” because that doesn’t allow the possibility (however remote) that maybe he does know and this was the best he could do.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
Off that list I would say
Baldelli (injury concern and most likely will get paid more)
Endy (injured to start the season, there’s a good idea)
Reed Johnson (started 184 games in CF compared to GMJR 750+, Johnson most likely would cost more)
All that and you still have to convince the player to come here to be Angel Pagan’s backup.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
so we are to believe that GMJ is better defensivly than amezaga,freel,johnson and even winn? Ill be willing to bet offensive as well.
mrose
1/22/2010-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think this was saying they are better… but they will cost more or have some sort of issue (like the Endy injury).
Amezaga was injured most of last year as well, and the Marlins non-tendered him, so maybe there is still some injury? none of the others are a lock to sign at 1M and theres no proof they’d be better or worse.. thats my opinion at least
trs86
1/22/2010-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
Freel 2009: .193 .290 .216 .506 5 games in CF.
Amezaga: .217 .267 .261 .528 started 7 games in CF.
Winn: .262 .318 .353 .671 11 games in CF.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
ok…defensive stats for those three and GMJ…
trs86
1/22/2010-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
All below average.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not asking you to believe that no. What I AM asking you to believe is that the Mets are having trouble recruiting people to come here and simply keep that in mind when trying to suggest alternatives, that’s my only real ground rule, well that and the salary. I didn’t put this forth because “I’m smart and I know the answer and it’s a trap” I just wanted to kind of go over the options.
So having said that I agree that Johnson is a guy who I think could fill the “GMJ role” adequately and I am curious to see what his price ultimately turns out to be and from whom he gets a contract.
I think Amezaga is a constructive suggestion. I personally don’t think he has the past starters experience I would prefer but I think he’s a very viable alternative with enough potential.
Freel I personally think is so putrid offensively that I wouldn’t want to count on him to start if needed.
Winn I agree I would prefer too, the one thing I wonder about is what salary and playing time he’s looking for and will he get it elsewhere? It’s been a few weeks but the last thing I remember reading about him was a quote to the effect of he “wasn’t ready to become a back up” at this point.
So I think you’ve lent a lot to the discussion and I think Johnson for me anyway is the obvious guy to prefer over GMJ. So then we’re really just left to wonder if he would come here given the uncertainty of his role. That’s the clincher for me that makes the GMJ acquisition make sense. He HAS TO accept his role, he was acquired in trade, the team can do with him what it wants. The other guys are free agents who have freedom of choice, who MIGHT look at the Mets OF and wonder what they’d be getting into.
Now if that leads to another discussion about who could be acquired by trade that’s great and I look forward to it.
Thanks for playing Dirty.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed on your comments Grave.
I would still not mind Amezaga. It’s not like our bench is done. We could still use a guy who can play multiple positions. Freel is very bad for sure. Winn had a very bad year to be looking for a contract for sure.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
No problem grave. I will have my eye on reed johnson…its getting pretty late in the offseason and while yes i do believe he will make more than what we are goign to pay GMJ, he will be more dependable as well. I just dont like giving up BP depth for nothing in return.
stickguy
1/22/2010-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
How about, if the Mets have money in the budget (they must, missing on panera bread and dough boy), if the 1mill options stink, consider spending a little more to get something you like better?
I also have no idea how much it would take to sign some of these guys, but I expect some will come much cheaper than you might think (winn maybe? or Amezaga who can play other spots too?)
mrose
1/22/2010-1:40pm at 1:40 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t agree with just spending on what SHOULd be a 5th OF (as long as Beltran comes back) when i’d rather save for a midseason trade or for next season or a Sheets or something this year.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
The one thing the mets cannot afford to lose is defense. Beltran is one of the best in the game, you cannot suffer with defense up the middle. GMJ does not help this problem at all. Amezaga i believe can be had for cheap, Reed maybe a bit more than GMJ but you get what you paid for. Reed plays all OF position and has started many games for the cubbies. I dont know what these guys cost but i just dont know if this was the best in sacrificing bp depth…
mrose
1/22/2010-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
besides Amezaga, I don’t see the others being any better than GMJ defensively and I really think Amezaga (if healthy) is worth WAY more than 1M. I’d be all for them signing Amezaga at any time, always liked him
trs86
1/22/2010-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
But who? Regardless of money who did you want to play CF and come to NY to be the 5th OF?
Seriously that is the question I keep asking and no one will answer.
fongy2
1/22/2010-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
We don’t know yet Heb, Thats part of the problem.
Who knows which of these guys will still be out there looking for work and willing to take almost anything
when camp opens. AND how and when was it decided by
you and TRS that one million per for the next two
is all that could be spent to bring in a guy who may
well be needed to be more than just a 4th or 5th OFer?
What if Pagan goes back to being a AAAA player or con’ts to field like Lonnie Smith?? And with our history, it’s
a lock Beltran comes back in May and he immediately returns to being Beltran with no other problems to the
knee which was just cut on in mid-January?
Now, your list clearly shows theres not a great group of
FAs available…We all already knew that, BUT can Omar
show some creativity here and do something to insure again Beltran not being the Beltran of old and/or suffering from nagging promblems relating to his surgery and recovery?? AND should Pagan NOT show he’s any more than a 5th OFer himself??
Is that too much to ask??
We know, I might be the #1 Omar crusher here BUT I’ve
taken it easy(for the most part) on this and him overall,
lately.
My expectations have been greatly lowered BUT Gary Friggin’ Matthews jr??? Are you kidding??
Forget Stokes, Who cares….But I wouldn’t have traded
Castillo from him, and Castillo is my most disliked Met
since Glavine and in my Alltime Top 5 most disliked.
Reason: Because Matthews CAN’T PLAY!…Like I said, your
provided list isn’t great but with the exception of a couple/three of those names, all are better than Matthews.
Further, it doesn’t take into account which 4th/5th OFer
might be available from another team’s roster, IF you
were gonna give up a Stokes anyway. Not that he’d get
you much more than that BUT maybe you add an Evans and/or
Kunz and come up with a better option than Gary Friggin’ Matthews Juicer…Err Junior.
Again, Too much to ask??
If Omar’s only answer is Matthews, What’s the rush???
Your opinion is greatly respected BUT, THIS isn’t about
“Finding any reason to bash Omar”….It’s about the Mets
acquiring Gary Matthews jr..
Heb, would you have been happy with acquiring Matthews
if I’d had told you in October, Beltran was gonna have to
have his knee cut on and won’t be back until May, maybe.
BUT don’t worry, Omar can get us Matthews jr. from The
Angels who will pick up almost all his salary??
Oh, and this is after not really addressing the Staff
or Pen BUT Hey, we’ll get rid of Stokes by sending him
to The Angels in the Matthews deal.
C’mon man! This is a cheap, easy, thoughtless move by Omar
,which is his M.O., BUT not what is needed for the 2010
New York Mets.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
That is why I ask you to forget money, who did you want?
fongy2
1/22/2010-2:11pm at 2:11 pm (UTC -4)
Like I said, almost any of those mentioned
by Heb would have been better pick-ups
than Juicer.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
I knew you would say that:
Alfredo Amezaga (32)
Rocco Baldelli (28)
Endy Chavez (32)
Darin Erstad (36)
Ryan Freel (34)
Reed Johnson (33)
Who did you want?
fongy2
1/22/2010-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
Given just that group,
I’d wait to see who was
left standing,without an
option & bring him in on the
cheap BUT in the meantime
would be burning up phone
lines trying to see who else might be out there.
I wouldn’t have wasted my
time,the 2million or the
small chip that is Brian Stokes on Gary Matthews Juicer.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
Easy way out again Fongy. Isn’t it possible that Omar could still be working the lines if he thought that another guy would be needed? That net 1 million loss is not going to stop him from making another move if he thought it would better the team.
fongy2
1/22/2010-2:34pm at 2:34 pm (UTC -4)
Then, again,
why the rush to rescue The
Angels from
Matthews?
He wouldn’t be there for
the same deal
in aweek,or two, or three?
C’mon TRS!
Your defensive of this move..for anything…at
any cost…
is weak.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
My defense is that it is a non-move. Meaningless. The only reason we are discussing it is because it’s GMJR.
It’s a 5th OF being paid 1 million and traded for a middle reliever.
It’s just not a big deal.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-2:09pm at 2:09 pm (UTC -4)
Everything you say is fair here Fongy. As far as “me” setting the rules I don’t feel that I did really, I’m just trying to compare our fan choices for alternatives to what actually happened, so therefore trying to eliminate say “trade for Ken Griffey Jr.” or “sign Barry Bonds” as an option because that would seem to me to be so far removed from what actually happened.
But if you prefer the team spend more on a 5th OF I’m not going to quibble with you and I simply ask who you think that person should be, and do you believe they will come here to fill that role on this club? Because in your very fair, thorough post, I see lots of complaints about GMJ but I don’t see the name of an alternative.
fongy2
1/22/2010-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
Just about any on your list.
Again, with that list being so long,
what was the rush to rescue The Angels
from Gary Matthews???
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
Well I don’t think personally that the list is “so long” because I don’t believe anyone listed on the RF or LF lists could play CF if necessary except Winn.
But even just narrowing it down to Winn and the CF guys, I agree any of them COULD do the job. That’s where the discussion takes a potentially ugly turn because then we have to get into who is willing to come here for the role and how much would they want and how does that fit into the “budget?”
So since at this point I have largely lost my interest in delving into those points, I’ll just agree with you that anyone on the CF list + Winn could’ve done the job.
Kingman 26
1/22/2010-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
TRS I am the last to bash Omar and I like Bay and Igarashi a lot.
I just don’t like Matthews and think he is terrible all around.
I don’t overreact to every little move but who cares if he has started? He stinks and will not improve.I think Stokes had more value.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
+1
stickguy
1/22/2010-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
word up.
reminds me of a joke: what is the definition of a “pokeman”?
ans:
A rastafarian proctologist.
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
+10
trs86
1/22/2010-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps you are right. We will see. I just want someone to give an idea of who they would rather have besides the line “Anybody is better”.
I am not sure Stokes even had a job next year but I can see your point. I think the Mets saw Nieve as taking his place.
stickguy
1/22/2010-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
reed johnson?
trs86
1/22/2010-2:14pm at 2:14 pm (UTC -4)
Not a bad alternative. Do you think he would come to NY to be 5th OF?
stickguy
1/22/2010-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
thinking about the starting idea for a minute.
1st, I assume that the depth chart right now is Pagan starting. Let’s further assume that all 3 CFs make it through ST in one piece.
You then have Pagan starting with GMJ on the bench, and F Mart in AAA.
If we get to May, and Beltran still isn’t ready, and Pagan goes down, you just might see F Mart get jumped to starting, if he has a big April in the minors and GMJ plays like, well, GMJ.
so entirely possible (and certain when Beltran comes back) that Gary would never start under any circumstances.
Maybe it is petty, but I can’t stand the guy. And I really don’t think I could watch a game with Gary and Luis both in the lineup!
tkfj
1/22/2010-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
Point: GMJ isnt worth the 1 million a year. He has negative value. Might as well call up a AAAA OF for depth.
mrose
1/22/2010-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
i’m pretty sure people said the same thing about Gary Sheffield last year and his 400k..
just sayin’
tkfj
1/22/2010-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
Comparing Gary Sheffield to GMJ. I guess anythings possible but very unlikely.
trs86
1/22/2010-1:53pm at 1:53 pm (UTC -4)
Both roid guys. Just Sheffield was a much better hitter either way.
Kingman 26
1/22/2010-1:58pm at 1:58 pm (UTC -4)
Mrose Shef is a borderline HOF and a great player for two decades.
Matthews had one pretty good season years ago.
Very, very strange comparison.
mrose
1/22/2010-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
not at all kingman, i’m not talking about their previous careers, i’m talking about their careers as they came to the Mets. I literally remember reading these kinda comments on MB last year.
Go back to that thread when the Mets were thinking of and then signed him… people were saying the same kinda thing.
mrose
1/22/2010-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
disclaimer: I’m not saying I expect a lot out of GMJ or anything, but for the love of god people, hes going to hopefully be a 5th outfielder and as someone else just mentioned, #3 on the depth chart.
Stokes was a borderline reliever as well and with the pickups and possibility for a guy like Smoltz and some young guys who had decent seasons before injury last year, he may have been cut anyway…
Kingman 26
1/22/2010-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
What chance do you think there is that Matthews hits and get on base like Shef did in 2009?
1 percent? Not even.
mrose
1/22/2010-2:09pm at 2:09 pm (UTC -4)
Dude, you are not even reading what i’m saying I guess. Or maybe i’m not being clear. i’m not expecting a sheffield like performance (or what you want to call what he gave us). I’m saying that we as fans typically overreact. Last year, many hated the washed up Sheff, but he did get a few big hits etc.
This year, were acting like GMJ as a #5 outfielder for 1M should be the reason Omar is fired when he traded away a borderline bullpen guy.
As much as this blog appreciates the hits, this is a waste of an argument, there is no winner, lol. This guy should not be an impact bat, or even a pinch hitter or pinch runner, he should be depth which could be where Stokes was headed this year.
nothing more, nothing less, practically no salary taken away from the Sheets possibility of signing and maybe some trades now or midseason and for next years’ payroll.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed…..
trs86
1/22/2010-2:11pm at 2:11 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, but Sheff could not stand in CF.
For those UZR guys
Matthews JR CF UZR 2009: -13.9
Beltran -4.8
At least according to that he does not have much to replace. LOL.
fongy2
1/22/2010-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
Matthews has had no career!
He was barely an MLBer who bounced
around to about half a dozen teams
looking very much like a AAAA player or 5th OFer on a bad team
until he started juicing, he then had two good but not great seasons with The Rangers and Parlayed that
into an Absurd contract from The Angels in the mist of ‘Roid Reform.
He immediately returned to being
a back-up OFer, however with a 60
Million Dollar contract.
The past two and a half seasons The Angels haven’t been able to give him away despite being willing
to pay most of the contract…..
Until Today!!…Congrats, Omar….
Great move!
trs86
1/22/2010-2:12pm at 2:12 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps the Angels were willing to pay more of his contract now because they needed a roster spot or liked Stokes. Don’t know.
fongy2
1/22/2010-2:31pm at 2:31 pm (UTC -4)
They wanted him off there team…Period.
He’s a waste of a roster spot, AB’s in
the spring and a locker.
He’s gonna be 36,
can’t hit for average,has no power,isn’t a speed threat and has become a very ordinary defensive
player.
Plus, everytime any member of The Angels
front office sees the guy in uniform,
I’m sure their blood pressure gets to dangerous levels
knowing how stupid
a move it was to give this guy 60MILLION DOLLARS!
trs86
1/22/2010-2:40pm at 2:40 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed on the last part.
But I still think at 1 million it’s not a big deal.
mrose
1/22/2010-2:12pm at 2:12 pm (UTC -4)
*sigh*
I give up… i’m not trying to say he is gonna be an all-star or anything, i’m just arguing the point of it being a non move…
but..i seriously have to give up
lol
trs86
1/22/2010-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
Which one of those AAAA players has staring MLB CF experience?
tkfj
1/22/2010-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
Why does experience matter? GMJ’s knees are bad, his UZR is in a freefall and he has to cover the Citifield outfield. None the less, this probably is moot anyway, not sure why I’m arguing about a guy who is the 3rd CF on the depth chart when healthy.
mrose
1/22/2010-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
Experience matters for the outside chance that GMJ is our starting CF for a period of time (lord I hope not!).
trs86
1/22/2010-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
Free-fall:
So lets see CF UZR
7.2, 3.5, -12.3, +1.4, -13.9.
Your definition and my definition must be different.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:05pm at 2:05 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, so why are we arguing this in general?
It was #11/12 on in the BP for #11/13 for the lineup.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
I agree completely with Tkfj on one thing: why are we having such arguments and over 300 comments on a guy who is the 3rd CF on the depth chart?
I know what my answer is to that question: because a significant percentage of those 300 comments were along the lines of “omigod WTF did my dumb ass GM just do” as opposed to “who gives an F it’s the third effin CF on the depth chart.”
The reaction is to the overreaction.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:40pm at 2:40 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed Grave.
Kingman 26
1/22/2010-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
TRS I am almost always with you but tkfj is right.Totally right.
metsfan4decades
1/22/2010-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
My problem with this is I believe there is no way GMJ is going to help this team if Beltran is out for an extended period of time and Pagan goes down with an injury too.
That’s like getting Andrew Jones and ‘hoping’ he finds himself again.
For the $$ and as a 5th OF, well O.K. Anyone who thinks he’s ever going to be anything more is kidding themselves. I truly hope Omar knows that as well and this trade is exactly what it looks like at face value – a cheap option for some depth where we suddenly need it.
I just can’t help thinking, lost in all this, is Matthews himself and what he must be thinking. Traded to the NY Mets by his former team, who BTW, was so willing to move him they’ll pay most of his salary. He can’t be feeling very good about this right now and how will that translate once he comes here?
trs86
1/22/2010-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe he looks at it as a fresh opportunity and comes here not to pout but to get a chance. Works hard in ST, helps the Mets then gets traded when Beltran comes back.
OR
Maybe he sucks and Stokes goes on to be lights out for the Angels.
Who was it yesterday telling me I was a glass half empty guy?
metsfan4decades
1/22/2010-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
One can only hope but if his aspirations were to be a starting CF, he’s got to know that isn’t happening here. It’s not like the Franceour trade. That involved a young kid who really did look at it as an opportunity. Jeff F. is the poster boy right now for positive Mets PR.
Here’s hoping Beltran is back healthy and right on schedule and we won’t have to watch GMJ become our starting CF…..
mrose
1/22/2010-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
he is delusional if he thought anyone was gonna give him a starting job if it wasn’t for massive injury, lol
njstuckintx
1/22/2010-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
I have to laugh at the vehemence of all this. Omar’s follow up act to fill in the bullpen spots are a LOOGY in J. Dahmer and a ROOGY in H. Lector.
At least the site count if rocketing skyward!
saltygary
1/22/2010-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t worry TRS the flames will dye down soon enough, or until we trade for Bengie Molina next week.
When a team has to make a center field move so late in the off season there generally aren’t a lot of options. So you have to pick through the Byrnes and GMJ’s and Sheffields of the world.
All Omar did was add some depth at a very cheap price. All last year while the dominoes were falling everyone was killing Omar because he didn’t have 8 OF’s waiting in the wings. Now the guy is doing it. Damned of you do dammed of you don’t. The team gave up nothing and added some cheap insurance. Does the guy require steroids to play, sure but he has managed to stay in the big leagues for quite some time.
Just looks like a lot if misplaced anger today.
Mr North Jersey
1/22/2010-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
-Sigh
look at us once again reduced to debating the merits of a Gary Matthews Jr.
i’ll refrain from further commenting in the merits of gmj i think i have said enough i’ll wait for opening day because it is just pointless to continue bashing minaya.
i am just exhausted
trs86
1/22/2010-2:09pm at 2:09 pm (UTC -4)
True, we should be debating….
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
can we pick up kiko? He was pretty solid for the marlins last year.
mrose
1/22/2010-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
i’d do it
trs86
1/22/2010-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
Would be nice.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
Absolutely, sign me up. I know Wanny likes him too, that’s 5 pro-Kiko votes!
“So happy together!”
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-2:12pm at 2:12 pm (UTC -4)
hotfootblog tweet:
Mets are pushing GMJ as a clutch hitter in their press release. “His .358 (29-81) batting avg with runners in scoring position led the team”
trs86
1/22/2010-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
Good he can compete with Castillo for our title there.
Funny how such bad hitters are good in RISP positions. I wonder if the pitcher perhaps lets up or the manager leaves a bad guy in there because they think they can get through it?
stickguy
1/22/2010-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
based on year to year trends, more likely a combination of small sample size and luck.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
I could be wrong but Castillo has been good at it the entire time he was with the Mets.
CaseStreet
1/22/2010-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
I’m away from my computer so I can’t confirm, but couldn’t we have traded for someones backup cf?
trs86
1/22/2010-2:19pm at 2:19 pm (UTC -4)
You mean besides Matthews? Possible. I know I did a little research on that the other day. Who knows if it would have cost more than Stokes. Not many backups though with starting experience and I think the Mets are afraid that Pagan either will bomb or will get injured.
stickguy
1/22/2010-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
just go sign keving gregg to fill stokes spot in the pen, and the off season will be back to trending up again.
I also can’t wait for the “discussion” when the Mets finally add another SP. Could be (fun? lively? depressing?) something!
also, don’t forget that earlier in the off season, the Phils signed Schnieder for a fairly substantial amount of money. Wonder what their blog comments looked like?
metsfan4decades
1/22/2010-2:59pm at 2:59 pm (UTC -4)
I read those comments on both Beerleaguer and Philliesnation.
I didn’t hear one negative thing about that acquisition. All commented it was a great pickup due to his good defense (yeah, good luck with that) and a far better option as a backup catcher than what they had.
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t believe trading a 12th man in the pen for a 5th outfielder has generated such a response.
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-2:23pm at 2:23 pm (UTC -4)
the bottom line is that neither of these guys will be the reason for the team’s success or failure and either of them were forced to play significant roles the season would already have been lost.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
I think that having MJR could be more helpful to start the season than Stokes. If MJR is playing ANY past May then you are right it won’t matter anyway.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
do you mean to say that 11 guys are ahead of stokes in regard to experience, talent and numbers?
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
I should have said 12th man on the pitching staff, not the pen.
Either way, he’s not very good and is easily replaceable, especially given the minimal role he is intended to serve.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
ill give you that he is replaceable but the question is will the mets replace him
trs86
1/22/2010-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps they already have with Nieve or Everts.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
Would it be better to say 6/7 in the pen?
trs86
1/22/2010-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. I think that has been my biggest problem.
I have said over and over on the thread that it’s not a big move. We have so many reasons to get on Omar but this just is not one of them. Maybe it works out and maybe it does not. Ultimately it cost us 1 million and Stokes to try it (thinking that Stokes cost about .5 and another guy signed to fill MJR spot cost at least .5)
stickguy
1/22/2010-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
the only thing getting more than a yawn is the fact that it is GMJ invloved. Any other 5th OF and it would have generated about 6 posts, and only because people were bored.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. People see that name, know that he stinks and get caught up in the fact that Omar is bringing in a bad player. If it’s a guy with the same stats as a 5th OF no one even blinks.
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
I think people are also holding Matthews’s contract against him.
With the Mets, the only expectations are that he provide about $1m in value, which nowadays is not much.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-2:31pm at 2:31 pm (UTC -4)
I dont think so…i think people understand we are only paying 1 mil for GMJ…people are just trying to find the logic in the “addition”
trs86
1/22/2010-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
Need a 5th OF with starting experience. I think the logic is easy. What we can debate is if the logic is sound and if there were other alternatives.
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
The logic in the addition is that they have no depth in CF.
I don’t see the logic in the vehement argument against such a minor move.
I characterize this move as a redistribution of depth.
If it were anyone else that did not have GMJ’s name but had the same production, no one would say a word.
For example, did you know that Endy Chavez’s career OPS is substantially lower than GMJ’s? It’s even lower than GMJ’s lousy season in 2009.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
Right but Endy made “the” catch. Of course Endy would be better defensively, maybe. But he won’t be ready to start the season.
I am with you, I can’t understand why so many people are so anamantly against this move when it’s the exchange of a 1 M BUCF for a .5M ROGGY.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
Damn Sportsypder LOL…
Title “Can the Mets land top FA?”
I wonder what Jason Bay thinks about that?
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
If it read “Can the Mets land top FA this week?” maybe they’d have something there.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
lol…jason is trying to find the clause that will let him out of his contract early…maybe on the phone with boras right now lol
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
One positive development from this is that it likely means F-Mart begins the season in AAA where he belongs.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-2:31pm at 2:31 pm (UTC -4)
362 comments later someone found a positive development.
Take off your miner’s hat, rub off that coal dust, grab a cold one and take a seat friend, welcome.
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-2:40pm at 2:40 pm (UTC -4)
I just had Chinese food for lunch (an extreme rarity). I’d rather have an antacid. But thanks for the welcome.
CaseStreet
1/22/2010-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
Any ideas of where the rest of the top talent will start the season?
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
Most likely the DL.
My guesses are that Thole, Davis and Tejada join F-Mart and Gee in AAA. Mejia and Holt should start in AA. I think I read somewhere that Flores might get promoted to St. Lucie, which would be consistent with their aggressive pattern with him.
CaseStreet
1/22/2010-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
No love for niese havens or familia
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-2:59pm at 2:59 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, I only play Jim Callis in front of my computer!
Havens will likely replace Tejada in Bingo while Flores replaced Havens in St. Loo.
I have no idea but I’m guessing Familia will go to St. Loo also.
And it’s up to Jon Niese where he goes, I suppose.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
If I’m reading between the lines of recent press speculation correctly, Niese goes north with the Mets in April. Otherwise why the sudden talk about Maine to the pen or being traded if Smoltz is signed?
I found that weird because when the Mets were dallying with Pineiro no one said anything about Maine at all, but as soon as Smoltz came up suddenly Maine gets bumped.
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-3:13pm at 3:13 pm (UTC -4)
I have only discussed the possibility of Maine being bumped if two real starters are acquired.
Otherwise, I think it is premature for the Mets to have already made a determination re: Niese.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-3:17pm at 3:17 pm (UTC -4)
Me too, and to be fair I don’t know how much stock to put in GMs’ public statements but I keep thinking back to Omar in Dec. taking a question from a fan at the Roberto Clemente dinner about his rotation and he answered very quickly “Santana, Pelfrey, Perez, Maine, Niese.”
Last night one of the Newsday guys was suggesting Maine be bumped or traded if Smoltz were acquired and me, Jaydh and others over at MLBTR were wondering where that came from.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
question is…how long does he stay there with two injury prone starters….
trs86
1/22/2010-2:33pm at 2:33 pm (UTC -4)
How is MJR that injury prone? He has played in 100+ games every year but 2004.
steveo
1/22/2010-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
Amazing news that such a meaningless trade gets so much attention,if this were the cardinals ,or some team like them, there would have been 1 small post about it.This is what’s so great about being a Mets fan if we finally get over the heap and kick butt this year we can laugh at every other team and fans out there.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
AnthonyDiComo tweet:
Omar on Matthews Jr.: “With Carlos or without Carlos, I think it just makes our team better.” #Mets
trs86
1/22/2010-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
I think that it has potential to make our team better but I do not think it has any potential to make the team worse.
trs86
1/22/2010-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
Guys gotta go. Lets shoot for 500 comments on the trade of a backup CF for a ROOGY.
If nothing else, as I have obviously made a lot of comments, it has wasted the day away. Gotta love TRDM.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
Crazy Mike Silva of NYBD had this irrational overreaction (he said sarcastically):
“Every deal the Mets make these days creates hysteria of epic proportions. Last season the Mets were exposed for the lack of depth they had. Already their starting centerfielder has gone down with an injury this year. The only capable replacement, before today, was Angel Pagan. Their other outfielders, Cory Sullivan and Jeremy Reed, took deals with other teams. Gary Matthews Jr. was acquired for Brian Stokes, a pitcher with a nice arm, but situational who can’t get lefties out, and $2 million dollars. The same total that it probably would take to sign any kind of competent free agent replacement.
By reading the comments on twitter I thought they just acquired Matthews Jr. for Mike Pelfrey, Jenrry Mejia, or Fernando Martinez. I realize that Angel Pagan is the better player, but by all indications the Mets expect Pagan to be the starter, and Matthews Jr. to come off the bench. Once Beltran is healthy I fully expect them to trade or release Matthews since a minor league stint is unlikely. I actually think this is a smart move by Omar Minaya because Matthews has some pop, can steal a base, and can play some defense. Statistically he was bad in 2009 in most counts, but there is a positive history. Sure, there are the steroid allegations in the Mitchell Report, but no one is expecting Matthews to hit 20 homers and start every day. Bottom line is you don’t want to scramble in April for a replacement in the event that Pagan gets hurt.
I doubt the Mets are done. They need two pitchers, right handed first baseman, and maybe another catcher. Gary Matthews is about depth, nothing more. Remember the last trade (Jeff Francoeur) that caused this hysteria? That didn’t turn out so bad – right?”
CaseStreet
1/22/2010-2:59pm at 2:59 pm (UTC -4)
Can’t blame us fans. When this broke it went from Matthews for castillo, then threesome with reds, then just cash, and finally losing stokes. It’s been a roller coaster of a day in a rather dissapointing off season, to date. Plus, some were hoping for news of an actual pitcher like garland or sheets
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-3:02pm at 3:02 pm (UTC -4)
Threesome with Denise Richards and Neve Cambpell sounds even better than with the Reds.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
Ohhhh, man I looooove that movie. I can’t go swimming in a pool at night without thinking about it. Thankfully I have baggy trunks.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-3:04pm at 3:04 pm (UTC -4)
I have no issue at all with any of the rampant speculation about what was going on while it was going on, I certainly don’t blame fans for excitement in speculation, I had some myself. I just question the vehemently negative response after it was announced to the actual trade that occurred, and in that context find Silva’s take to be an appropriate response (in my subjective opinion).
I went so far as to leave a comment on his blog that says “when I look up ‘beacon of sanity’ it says: ‘Mike Silva.’” So that sort of covers my thoughts on the trade and the reaction to it.
CaseStreet
1/22/2010-3:08pm at 3:08 pm (UTC -4)
Stop living in the past, I’m talking about penelope Cruz and Scarlett johanson
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-3:12pm at 3:12 pm (UTC -4)
Oh man, when did that happen? Was that “Wild Things 3?” I missed that.
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-3:16pm at 3:16 pm (UTC -4)
Too bad it’s not swimming weather yet.
CaseStreet
1/22/2010-3:19pm at 3:19 pm (UTC -4)
Vicky Christina Barcelona
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-3:23pm at 3:23 pm (UTC -4)
Aha, haven’t seen that yet. It’s in the pecking order somewhere after “Maria Full of Grace.” Perhaps I should bump it up?
CaseStreet
1/22/2010-4:30pm at 4:30 pm (UTC -4)
No threesomes in Maria Full of Grace, unless you’re talking about some other kind of movie
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-3:24pm at 3:24 pm (UTC -4)
Right. I saw that. And that was like psycho threesome. But it didn’t have the nudity that the Wild Things one had.
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-3:05pm at 3:05 pm (UTC -4)
I hope they are not done but this does not bode much confidence in what they are building for next year and beyond. Lets hope the mets can “land a top FA”
trs86
1/22/2010-2:50pm at 2:50 pm (UTC -4)
One more question and I will take the answer tonight after my game.
IF this deal had been GMJR and 12M for Castillo and Stokes would anyone have been more OK with it?
dirtysanchez
1/22/2010-3:03pm at 3:03 pm (UTC -4)
yes…because it leaves the door wide open for the mets love child Odog(and we can stop hearing about this bull). While it is unfortunatte that stokes is lumped in but his departure will not be for nothing…it creates opportunity to improve.
trs86
1/22/2010-3:47pm at 3:47 pm (UTC -4)
That’s what I thought. When really the Mets could just release Castillo now and have the same financial impact because we are getting 21.5 to go with him.
metsfan4decades
1/22/2010-3:05pm at 3:05 pm (UTC -4)
LOL – that should be a totally new post.
I’m not as hyped up about getting rid of Castillo this year as some others are. If we had someone waiting in the wings, heir apparent to 2nd base that was just about ML ready, then I’d be more on board with getting rid of him. Or if we could get someone this year who plays a better defense and wouldn’t cost an arm or a leg or any of our better pitching prospect, then O.K.
I’ve seen many a Met fan suggest we just out and out cut him and eat the salary. Now that I just find ridiculous.
CaseStreet
1/22/2010-3:13pm at 3:13 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe next year with tejada
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
The minor league’s only 30-30 man is going to become a priest. Holy schnikeys!
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14247230?nclick_check=1
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-3:20pm at 3:20 pm (UTC -4)
Hmm, I wonder if the A’s – Jays trade of minor leaguers that went with the Halladay deal would’ve been different if they knew this was coming? Of course I don’t know what positions those involved play so maybe I just shouldn’t even ask that. I think it was a 3B for an OF but don’t know which way which went or what Desme is.
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-3:26pm at 3:26 pm (UTC -4)
I doubt it was related. Desme, an OFer, was still a ways away. Taylor, whom they acquired, is an OFer too but is pretty close to ready.
I think they also preferred Taylor’s defensive ability to Wallace’s lack thereof. The A’s always seem to chock full of 1B/DH types.
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-3:29pm at 3:29 pm (UTC -4)
The legacy of the Giambi brothers.
fongy2
1/22/2010-3:55pm at 3:55 pm (UTC -4)
Juicers?????
wannybackstra
1/22/2010-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
If you’re going to rail against every baseball player who has used steroids, I think you’re going to find yourself with very few players to root for.
mrose
1/22/2010-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
Phillies sign Jose Contreras… discuss
CaseStreet
1/22/2010-3:22pm at 3:22 pm (UTC -4)
Mets should sign bartolo colon, then it’d be full circle for Omar
GravediggerHebner
1/22/2010-3:26pm at 3:26 pm (UTC -4)
I guess that means they’ve “backed off on John Smoltz who wants to start.” Sounds like Contreras may be their 2010 Chan Ho Park. Baseball is so international.
mrose
1/22/2010-3:35pm at 3:35 pm (UTC -4)
isn’t contreras like 72 now? I feel like hes been in his late 30′s since I was born
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