Jan 27
Tatis shows he's just as fast as Hudson and more versatile
According to Bart Hubbuch of the New York Post, the New York Mets are “deep into negotiations with Fernando Tatis for a return engagement, and could have a deal complete within a matter of days.”
UPDATE: Adam Rubin says the deal should be done shortly.
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132 comments
stickguy
1/27/2010-6:17pm at 6:17 pm (UTC -4)
while I recognize that he theoretically fits the need for the last bench spot, oh god, please no.
especially if Jerry is going to insist on starting him almost FT, and using him at 1B.
Fork the old guys. At this oint, Carter and Evans are looking pretty good!
GravediggerHebner
1/27/2010-6:20pm at 6:20 pm (UTC -4)
These “deep negotiations” might explain not giving that last roster spot to Inglett.
I agree with your assessment that there are plenty of eminently droppable guys on it, but I have to guess that Omar disagrees with us on that point or he would’ve done it.
stickguy
1/27/2010-6:28pm at 6:28 pm (UTC -4)
i would rather have had inglett. At least he can play 2B.
rustyjr
1/27/2010-6:20pm at 6:20 pm (UTC -4)
damn grave you beat me to the punch lol
puma also said kelvim escobar decided to skip mini camp cuz it wan’t mandatory – what a way to make a good first impression lol
rustyjr
1/27/2010-6:20pm at 6:20 pm (UTC -4)
do we really need tatis part tres?
GravediggerHebner
1/27/2010-6:23pm at 6:23 pm (UTC -4)
I really wish it had been someone else too, but for that one roster spot I can see the sense in having someone so positionally versatile. I just wish the position he was best at wasn’t the one he’s least likely to play (3B) and that the one he’s worst at wasn’t the one he’s most likely to play (1B).
Kingman 26
1/27/2010-6:26pm at 6:26 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I agree, but I sure as hell DO NOT want to see Tatis starting at first. Murph needs to have a chance to play 150+ games, against the tough lefties, etc, to see what he can do.
GravediggerHebner
1/27/2010-6:29pm at 6:29 pm (UTC -4)
Someone not named Jerry Manuel might agree with you. I know I do.
stickguy
1/27/2010-6:31pm at 6:31 pm (UTC -4)
true. We know tatis is mediocre at best, and isn’t going to be getting better. Murhpy? At least there is the chance.
And if he has to play looking over his shoulder, it is more likely he gets into bad habits (such as hacking at bad pitches trying to jack a HR, worried that he is going to be benched otherwise).
If Tatis is brought in, an announced as, a RH PH and only start when a guy needs a rest guy? No biggie. But if he is intended to be a platoon 1B, pass. Would almost rther have evans for that!
Actually, 1B should be an open competition in ST. Let Murphy, Evans and Carter fight for the job, and see if anyone seperates himself from the pack.
Hazmet
1/27/2010-6:55pm at 6:55 pm (UTC -4)
I didn’t even want part deux.
oleosmirf
1/27/2010-8:56pm at 8:56 pm (UTC -4)
Evan barely hit over .200 in the minors last season…
Carter is the guy im very intrigued about…
CaseStreet
1/27/2010-7:10pm at 7:10 pm (UTC -4)
MC puts an interesting question, for our 4/5th OFer job, would you have preferred Randy Winn or GMJ?
Winn cost the Yanks $2.5M while GMJ cost the Mets $1M + Brian Stokes
Kingman 26
1/27/2010-7:17pm at 7:17 pm (UTC -4)
There is no debate for me.
If Winn was willing to accept the role he would have here, I would have taken him in a second over GMJ.
But, optimistic as I am, I can understand him wanting to be a Yank, as his career is getting old and he has never seen the postseason.
metsfan4decades
1/27/2010-7:30pm at 7:30 pm (UTC -4)
Oh man, that last sentence just about says it all….
royhobbs7
1/27/2010-7:23pm at 7:23 pm (UTC -4)
Should I get excited over Tatis’ signing? Moreover, should I get excited that Murphy is the weakest hitting 1B in baseball?
CaseStreet
1/27/2010-7:25pm at 7:25 pm (UTC -4)
Murphs style of hitting (gap hitter) is good for the park. Also, he did hit quite a few HRs last year.
Kingman 26
1/27/2010-7:29pm at 7:29 pm (UTC -4)
And 38 2B in 550 PA…and finished very strong…
Kingman 26
1/27/2010-7:28pm at 7:28 pm (UTC -4)
And Murphy, one year removed from double A ball, who played 99 games above A level ball, clearly has reached the maximum of his ability already. Let’s give up on him, as every player who was ever very good was a standout from the day they reached the big leagues.
metsfan4decades
1/27/2010-7:33pm at 7:33 pm (UTC -4)
I’d love nothing more than to see Murph have a very good year. I don’t believe he’s total crap, as some do. I think the jury is still out on what type of ML hitter he can be. This year should tell. His downfall though is right now he can only play first base. I don’t ever want to see him in the OF again and even though he played 3rd in the minors, I’ve never saw him play that position. I’ll confess to not knowing if he was decent there or not. I’m assuming also – they deemed it a failed experiment with him at 2nd last year in winter ball?
Hazmet
1/27/2010-7:52pm at 7:52 pm (UTC -4)
Well said K-man. What’s unfortunate for Murph is that he can go out there and have a decent year and he’s still just holding the position down till Ike Davis is ready. I could see Murph reach 40 doubles, 15-20HR’s this year based on how he finished last and the best they may have to offer him is the Ty Wiggington career path to being traded.
trs86
1/27/2010-8:00pm at 8:00 pm (UTC -4)
If he could play 2B then we would be set.
Hazmet
1/27/2010-8:02pm at 8:02 pm (UTC -4)
So true, such a shame that didn’t work out in 08 AZ Fall League.
trs86
1/27/2010-8:08pm at 8:08 pm (UTC -4)
I think if Davis pushes it may be reintroduced. Or like you said he may become a trade casualty.
fongy2
1/27/2010-8:30pm at 8:30 pm (UTC -4)
Too bad he can’t!
prismo
1/27/2010-7:35pm at 7:35 pm (UTC -4)
When trying to rebuild the team, I can’t understand the reasoning behind potentially spending $4MM on Cora and Tatis. Obviously, change for the sake of change usually isn’t a great strategy, but it just seems like there would have been similar options for the same or less money.
trs86
1/27/2010-8:01pm at 8:01 pm (UTC -4)
Find an option with Tatis’s numbers and ability to play multiple positions for what he is likely to sign for. Cora I can agree with. Tatis is vastly underrated.
metsfan4decades
1/27/2010-7:36pm at 7:36 pm (UTC -4)
Signing Tatis should pretty much kill any rumors about bringing Delgado back, wouldn’t you say?
Heavy into discussions? How much could it take to sign him as I don’t believe I saw even a breath of a rumor linking him to any other team yet this offseason.
trs86
1/27/2010-7:59pm at 7:59 pm (UTC -4)
Great move, seriously. Take a look at his last 2 years. Even using last year, compare his numbers to other multipositional guys. He holds his own quite well and does it for a very reasonable price compared to guys like DeRosa.
Also, I am not big on using UZR for 1B but UZR actually shows Tatis to be a very capable fielder at every position. He actually is more negative at 3B than any other. However, what that most likely shows is that with an increase in playing time he might get exposed. I agree it does not need to be a full platoon yet. Give Murphy the chance against some LHP. However, there is no doubt in my mind that Tatis has a role on this team and he has done well in that role. He might take time away from Evans but honestly Evans needs to hit over .225 in AAA to deserve a spot.
trs86
1/27/2010-8:07pm at 8:07 pm (UTC -4)
I honestly don’t know what you guys want from a utility guy. .290 BA, .350 OBP, .800 OPS. Decent power.
According to fangraphs the guy has been worth 7M a season and got paid almost nothing. This guy is an asset.
metsfan4decades
1/27/2010-8:34pm at 8:34 pm (UTC -4)
I’m on board. I’m probably one of the few who thought they should resign Tatis for one year back in Nov.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:03pm at 9:03 pm (UTC -4)
I honestly thought they should have offered him arbitration. He was a type B FA.
CaseStreet
1/27/2010-10:18pm at 10:18 pm (UTC -4)
he would’ve accepted and it would’ve cost them more than whatever he signs for now
trs86
1/27/2010-10:26pm at 10:26 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe. He was paid 1.7 last year. They could have always settled. I don’t think he would have gotten much of a raise from the previous year. Also a chance that he could have been signed by someone else. Kind of like the Wagner debate only with a player that’s 10M cheaper. To me the 1M potential loss was worth the potential draft pick.
Hazmet
1/27/2010-9:03pm at 9:03 pm (UTC -4)
13 Double Plays + 54 Strike Outs in 340AB’s are stuck in my head. 20% of eh in plate appearances. However, the numbers you present do warrant his presence as a utility player. I guess I’m just looking for someone not to be back from the last 2 years rosters. I don’t think he can catch up to the fastball anymore given anything he crushed the past 2 years was breaking stuff. Once pitchers figured that out they seemed to use that recipe. Could do worse that’s for sure.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:07pm at 9:07 pm (UTC -4)
The DP rate was as bad as it seems and the K’s would not even be 100 K’s in a normal season’s ab’s.
fongy2
1/27/2010-8:16pm at 8:16 pm (UTC -4)
Looks like Omar almost has the entire old gang back together!!!
Carlos Delgado next???
And what was it that Einstein said again….about doing the
same thing over and over again, hoping for a different result??
Ya really gotta love these guys!!!
Man!…….It’s gonna be a long season!!
trs86
1/27/2010-8:17pm at 8:17 pm (UTC -4)
Why would we want a different result than what Tatis gave us as a bench player?
fongy2
1/27/2010-8:30pm at 8:30 pm (UTC -4)
Re-read the post.Then take another look at this roster.
I like Tatis,always have.
Glad he came clean about the steroid abuse and as a very serious Christian myself,admire what Tatis
has done back home in the D.R..
Glad he’s back,not worried about Evans,who like
FMart,hasn’t proven a thing in the bigs yet.
However, this pretty much looks like the same
team which went into last spring off two epic
collapes, with Omar trying to convince everyone
we were a serious contender.
Now, after the injury disaster of last season and Jerry proving himself to be a very ordinary Mgr…
At best…The FO spends four months doing almost
nothing but re-signing the same guys who weren’t
good enough to get the job done the past three
yrs.
Yeah, makes sense!
trs86
1/27/2010-8:59pm at 8:59 pm (UTC -4)
Change for the sake of change? Like changing out Tatis is going to magically make the team a winner. Tatis has done great in his role and is not the problem. The problem was injuries and poor coaching last year and a bad BP the year before. (2/3 you can blame on Omar)
fongy2
1/27/2010-9:14pm at 9:14 pm (UTC -4)
Is there something wrong with you
tonight?
I said I like Tatais and glad he’s back.
Not the point of my orginal post on this.
So it was just injuries last yr??
And a Bad BP the the yr before???
How ’bout the yr before that????
trs86
1/27/2010-9:17pm at 9:17 pm (UTC -4)
“The problem was injuries and poor coaching last year”
fongy2
1/27/2010-9:26pm at 9:26 pm (UTC -4)
“Coaching” up
that group into
even a .500 team
would have required
Whitey,Billy or Bobby.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:47pm at 9:47 pm (UTC -4)
47 47 Friday, May 29 boxscore NYM FLA W 2 1 11 27-20
56 56 Tuesday, Jun 9 boxscore NYM PHI W 6 5 31-25
71 71 Thursday, Jun 25 boxscore NYM STL W 3 2 37-34 2 0.5
78 78 Thursday, Jul 2 boxscore NYM @ PIT W 9 8 10 39-39 3 1.0
Saturday, Aug 1 boxscore NYM ARI W 9 6 50-53 4
You most likely can’t read all this.
I can translate it if you need me too.
May 29th even with injuries already Mets are in 1st place and 27-20
June 9th Mets are very injured and 6 games above .500
June 25th Mets have been injured and continue to get worse. 3 games above .500 and .5 games back.
July 2nd, destoryed by injuries Mets are .500 and 1 game back.
August 1st with 4th string players as regulars the Mets are still only 3 games below .500.
You can say that we might not have one the NL East. To say that this team was a below .500 team is just ludicrous.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:18pm at 9:18 pm (UTC -4)
What are you thinking? That it’s the chemistry thing that suddenly will change if you replace Tatis? If you have to change the Chemistry it’s going to have to be one of the core not some utility player.
fongy2
1/27/2010-9:24pm at 9:24 pm (UTC -4)
Wow!..Something really is wrong with you tonight.
I’ll say in again,
I’m glad TaTis is
back.
It’s just funny to me that ANYONE could
think THIS same group will do something they haven’t been able to do for three yrs now.
Are you aware that
we’ll likely have less of a roster change than any of the playoff teams in either league?
trs86
1/27/2010-9:37pm at 9:37 pm (UTC -4)
Current Opening day compared to last year’s opening day.
New
1B, LF, RF, C, #5 SP, bunch of relievers and at least a few bench players
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-9:50pm at 9:50 pm (UTC -4)
How about the rotation?
and #5 SP doesn’t count. it’ll be Nieve today and Niese tomorrow, Smolts the next day….
trs86
1/27/2010-9:53pm at 9:53 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, why does #5 starter not count?
trs86
1/27/2010-9:54pm at 9:54 pm (UTC -4)
But still I agree we need some rotation changes. Problem is that chances are we were only going to upgrade one spot in the rotation so it’s not like that is “major” turnover.
stickguy
1/27/2010-9:32pm at 9:32 pm (UTC -4)
2008 was not a collapse. 2007 though, that was a gag job.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:48pm at 9:48 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed Stick. I am sure 2007 was so bad that it actually hurt us in 2008 too.
metsfan4decades
1/27/2010-8:35pm at 8:35 pm (UTC -4)
I believe signing Tatis would put to rest any thought of signing Delgado. I can’t imagine they would resign both.
fongy2
1/27/2010-8:37pm at 8:37 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed!…I was being ironic.
—Or—At least trying to be.
stickguy
1/27/2010-9:34pm at 9:34 pm (UTC -4)
well, that right there is a good enough reason to resign Fernando.
saltygary
1/27/2010-8:33pm at 8:33 pm (UTC -4)
SERENITY NOW!!!!!
fongy2
1/27/2010-8:36pm at 8:36 pm (UTC -4)
Who’s that?? A young Korean Relief Pitcher???
Sign him up!!!!
koose
1/27/2010-8:36pm at 8:36 pm (UTC -4)
Tatis minus the double plays is a always a good piece, my only concern is where Carter fits in if he is even considered.
This kid needsd ashot as he was blocked in Boston even if hes a once a week fill in at first,I really hope omar didnt get this kid for the AAA roster >
trs86
1/27/2010-8:58pm at 8:58 pm (UTC -4)
Being LH I don’t think that Tatis has anything to do with Carter.
wannybackstra
1/27/2010-10:32pm at 10:32 pm (UTC -4)
It doesn’t matter which hand he hits with. The matter is that they’re not going to carry a dozen backup 1B and can’t carry a 26th player.
I’d like to see Carter get his long deserved shot at a major league job. All he does is mash in the minor leagues. Tatis’s signing doesn’t eliminate Carter’s chance but it drastically reduces it.
trs86
1/27/2010-10:36pm at 10:36 pm (UTC -4)
Blanco, Cora, GMJR, Tatis, Carter?
Handedness for the bench is very important.
You have a RH PH with pop in Tatis and then a LH PH with pop in Carter. Both Tatis and Carter can play LF and Tatis can also backup 3B and RF.
Unless you thought the Mets were going to carry Ahern then they next logical would be Carter and Tatis.
trs86
1/27/2010-10:37pm at 10:37 pm (UTC -4)
Also we are assuming they stick with 13 and 12. I would also assume that but we don’t know for sure. Early in the year they may keep 14-11 because of the lack of need for a 5th starter.
wannybackstra
1/27/2010-10:43pm at 10:43 pm (UTC -4)
That fifth bench spot is only a temporary one if we believe Beltran is back expeditiously.
You are assuming Carter is capable of playing LF in the majors.
In any event, how often will the backup LFer play? He won’t make the team because the Mets feel they need him to play LF. Especially not with Matthews and/or Pagan around.
They may prefer he play in AAA than be a redundant backup 1B and occasional pinch hitter.
As I said, Tatis does not eliminate him but he makes him much less likely.
Perhaps they even consider a 3rd catcher since none of them can hit, it will be a popular pinch hitting opportunity.
Mr North Jersey
1/27/2010-8:58pm at 8:58 pm (UTC -4)
Tatis back with the Mets? I like Tatis he seems like a nice guy. I guess he was the best Minaya could do. Oh well if Murphy does what is expected Tatis will be of little consequence and if Murphy fails we are screwed anyways so what Tatis will give us will be the least of our concerns.
Good Luck Tatis welcome back.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:02pm at 9:02 pm (UTC -4)
Again, considering how bad most team’s utility guy is I am happy to see Tatis. Compare his numbers with guys like Hairston Jr.
Mr North Jersey
1/27/2010-9:05pm at 9:05 pm (UTC -4)
Uhmmm, ok?
trs86
1/27/2010-9:09pm at 9:09 pm (UTC -4)
I am saying that compared to almost every utility guy in the league Tatis has better numbers.
Mr North Jersey
1/27/2010-9:17pm at 9:17 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll just hope that Murphy has a great year. I’ll leave the number crunching for others to play with.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:19pm at 9:19 pm (UTC -4)
LOL. I guess that is why you are guessing that that is the best Omar can do.
Mr North Jersey
1/27/2010-9:23pm at 9:23 pm (UTC -4)
If that is what you need ok.
I just feel that without looking at numbers the Tatis I remembered from 2009 struggled when we needed him most and only started hitting when the season was over after the All Star break.
But I can be wrong and like I said as long as Murphy hits Tatis won’t be a big deal to me.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:34pm at 9:34 pm (UTC -4)
You are right that he did better in July, August and September but you could also say that was when we DID need him the most. We should not have needed him that much in April and May.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:35pm at 9:35 pm (UTC -4)
Actually looking back he had 2 bad months and 4 good months.
Mr North Jersey
1/27/2010-9:38pm at 9:38 pm (UTC -4)
The way I remember our season was over by the All Star break.I don’t see how after the break and especially Aug and Sept he was important.
That is just my opinion.
stickguy
1/27/2010-9:45pm at 9:45 pm (UTC -4)
they were falling out of it, but they needed him since they had no one else to play and carry the team.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-9:46pm at 9:46 pm (UTC -4)
Who do you prefer? Tatis or Garko?
Garko costs probably $1M more than Tatis?
Mr North Jersey
1/27/2010-9:47pm at 9:47 pm (UTC -4)
2 bad, 4 good, day games, night games, home or away. Divide it any way you want. I will hope for Murphy to have a big year.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:49pm at 9:49 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t know DND. I guess if price were the same I would go with Garko. I do like the fact that Tatis has been a role player and done well at it while playing many positions. However, I really like Garko and his potential. Eh, get both.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-9:53pm at 9:53 pm (UTC -4)
The most frustrating thing about this stupid offseason is what’s the hold up???
If Garko is available and should be relatively cheap, why not sign both Garko and Tatis?
Are the Mets FO that stupid and only can look at one player at a time? That’s all the resources they have?
trs86
1/27/2010-9:56pm at 9:56 pm (UTC -4)
I think there are a few things in play. I think they have some players they like that they really don’t want to replace.
Example they could have most likely gotten LaRoche but they like Murphy. They could have overpaid for Pineiro but they like Maine and Nieve.
I would have approached it differently but I think after the big 3 FA the Mets said MEH!
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-10:09pm at 10:09 pm (UTC -4)
That’s what I have a problem with. Sure the talent level drops significantly after the big 3. (Why not sign Lackey and Bay?) But Pineiro is better than Maine or Nieve. AND if the Mets moved in on Pineiro faster, they might’ve gotten him at 2/16-18. I don’t think that’s overpaying at at all. After all there’s Ollie 3/36.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-10:12pm at 10:12 pm (UTC -4)
I mean whatever moves they could have made, especially in SP department, is better than the current rotation. I’m not saying that Pelf/Maine/Ollie can’t have good years, but I’m almost willing to bet a lot of money that one (if not two) of #2-5 will be hurt this year.
Then what?
Sure Marquis/Garland/etc are average pitchers. But they can give you innings and some quality outings. And also insurance just in case last year happens.
trs86
1/27/2010-10:15pm at 10:15 pm (UTC -4)
Is Pineiro better than Maine or Perez?
Which Pineiro?
This one: 5.15 ERA and less than 150 innings pitched or the one last year that had over 200 innings and under 4.00 ERA for the first time since 2003.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-10:22pm at 10:22 pm (UTC -4)
But how is Ollie or Maine better than Pineiro? All three had ONE good season in last 5 years.
Who had the most recent one with out getting hurt?
Who was the guy that has NEVER pitched over 200 innings?
trs86
1/27/2010-10:28pm at 10:28 pm (UTC -4)
Why is Pineiro more likely to pitch well next year than either of those 2? He has no history of pitching well consistently. Maine has had more good seasons in the last 5 than Pineiro has. He may but he is no more of an answer than anyone else in this market other than Lackey.
oleosmirf
1/27/2010-9:07pm at 9:07 pm (UTC -4)
i have absolutely no problem with the Mets lineup this season. In fact besides catcher and possibly Castillo, I would say its one of the top lineups in the NL. They got the big bat in addition to their current core of players. Murphy’s numbers are fine for a rookie. I expect him to bat .280 15 HR 70 RBI. Ill take that for a 2nd year pro… Id love to see them buy out castillo like LAA did with Matthews or just sign Hudson instead of Tatis. Bullpens of course cannot really be predicted although we have K-Rod and Feliciano both are one of the best at what they do…
this rotation however is an absolute disgrace. While I wont call for his head until after the offseason is over, if Omar goes into this season with the same exact rotation you create such a giant hole on this team that it makes it almost impossible to make the playoffs.
i mean what team (that is supposed to be a contender for the playoffs) has a weaker 2-5 in the rotation. its definitely worst in the NL East…
Kingman 26
1/27/2010-9:17pm at 9:17 pm (UTC -4)
Much, much worse than the Nationals, that is for sure.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:20pm at 9:20 pm (UTC -4)
Depends on health for both teams there.
oleosmirf
1/27/2010-11:27pm at 11:27 pm (UTC -4)
Zimmerman and Strasburg are MLB ready prospects that absolutely blow John Niese out of the water…
Lannan is also better than any of our SP not named Santana…
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-9:41pm at 9:41 pm (UTC -4)
So…. what holes did the Mets fill this off season?
This is basically same team as last year…. wow…. I just cannot understand what the Mets front office are thinking.
Sure Tatis is a good bench guy. whatever.. I don’t even care about Tatis. Personally, I’d rather sign Garko over Tatis, but I guess Garko is no good in Mets FO eyes.
But then again… what have the Mets front office done this off season? This is NY. NY doesn’t care about the what went on behind the scenes. NY doesn’t care about what-ifs or could’ve beens. NY cares only about the results. So.. besides Bay (who’s power will probably replace Delgado and Beltran’s missing time), what have they done this off season?
I was listening to Brandon Tierny this morning and he said that the Mets are basically a 4th place team. I disagreed. But if you think about it, how are the Mets better than the Marlins and the Braves? How can you possibly say that this team is a division contender OR even a wild card contender? Sure.. maybe they’ll stumble into the wild card spot with 90-92 wins. But can the Mets beat the Phillies? Cards? LA? or the Rockies? If Johan started all the playoff games, sure. But there’s no way in hell this team will be in any position to win WS. I hope I’m wrong, but this team has become a joke of the town and a joke of MLB.
I maybe frustrated and saying things that maybe not logical, but at this point, you grab anyone off the streets of NY and ask them if the Mets have any chance of beating the Phillies?
stickguy
1/27/2010-9:49pm at 9:49 pm (UTC -4)
the “results” of the off season mean nothing. Neither does the pre-season prediction, otherwise the Mets would have been in the WS last year (just ask SI). And none of those other teams (I will leave the phils out of it!) are that great on paper (nor were they last year), and all have holes.
so sure, if a few things break right (basically, the Mets stay reasonably healthy, and perform up to resonable expectations (not out of the world career years, just what they are capable of), then they are every bit as good, if not better than, those other teams, and can certainly win 90 games and be at least the WC.
I don’t even know who Brandon Tierney is, so I really don’t care what he thinks!
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-10:05pm at 10:05 pm (UTC -4)
Few things break right, they may stumble into the WC. But no way in hell they are 2nd in line for the division. Even if the Phillies become the Mets of ’09, Bravos and Marlins are no push overs.
And the ‘result’ of this off season mean nothing, but how many stinking years does it take for the Mets FO to realize that they are playing this game wrong?
Why do you think Mets failed over and over in ’07-’09? NO Role players to pick up the load when the Core players can’t perform. Look at ’08 team. What have Church/Schneider/Castillo/Who played LF?/Bench/SP #3-5 done?? And in ’09? It’s because these role players cannot pick up the load from the core players, when the core guys got injured, the team became 90 loss team.
So… what’s different in 2010?? Are we that stupid to believe that these same role players are going to get it done next year? Are we that naive to believe that all the SP (Ollie, Maine, Nieve, etc) are going to stay healthy and will be at best? Are we that naive to believe that Reyes will just pick right up from his pre-injury days and not have any concerns? Are we that naive to think that all of these chips will fall in the place?
I’m sorry, but I don’t think all the players will stay healthy. Then what? who’s there to pick up the slack?
trs86
1/27/2010-10:12pm at 10:12 pm (UTC -4)
Seriously, even the backups got injured. I don’t know of any team besides the Yankees that could have kept from losing 90 games with injuries to their 5 best players.
stickguy
1/27/2010-10:12pm at 10:12 pm (UTC -4)
again, do you want back up starters at every position? If Reyes and Beltran go down for the year again, of course they will suffer.
and the role players are better. LF is now Bay, Frenchy is an improvement, murphy should be better this year, Castillo of course still stinks. And other than Castillo, none of these guys had anything to do with 2007 or 2008, and down the stretch in 2009 (when the core was non-existant), Frenchy and Murphy practically (along with Tatis) czarried the team.
and the pitching has to stay healthy, but they really didn’t have that much choice this year on that.
I psoted below that I think they still need to add 1 more SP and dump Castillo for a better defensive 2B.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-10:19pm at 10:19 pm (UTC -4)
Ok.. Offense improved compared to last year’s opening day roster. But what guarantees are there that Frenchy won’t go back to his Atl days? And also what guarantees are there that Murphy will still hit .230 during the 1st half of the season? Combine that with Beltran out for 2 months and maybe Reyes sitting out couple games….
so.. what’s the answer to that? well I’m sure not many teams will be able to replace some of their big components. but at least try to do something about it. be proactive.
All I see and all the moves I’ve seen so far are reactive moves. Look what the Yanks and RedSox are doing. I hate to compare, but they seem to be making all the right moves. How in the world does Winn sign with the Yankees for $2M and the Mets cannot even think about that scenario?
trs86
1/27/2010-10:30pm at 10:30 pm (UTC -4)
So we should replace Frenchy? Get a better backup than Pagan? I am confused. Sign Damon for the bench? What good players are going to come here and sit the bench to wait for Francouer to stink? What good 1B is coming to backup Murphy?
Did you see Winn’s numbers last year? Also, don’t you think the Mets would have had to pay Winn a lot more to ride the bench here than to ride the bench there?
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-10:45pm at 10:45 pm (UTC -4)
My whole point is that the Mets FO is not doing the right thing. What have they done this offseason?
Sign Bay and 20 Backup catchers. And when they failed to land Molina or Pineiro, they come out and say we’ll go with Santos and current rotation? What kind of BS is that?? And from what I’ve read, both Molina and Pineiro wanted to come to NY, but got sick of slow moving/stubborn Mets FO.
Are Molina or Pineiro answers? No. But they are upgrades from the current ones.
To continue the discussion above, I think Pineiro has better chance to stay healthy. Will he give you 15 wins under 4 ERA? Probably not. But he’s not the one coming off of surgery last year. So, I think he is an upgrade over Maine and Ollie considering health issues.
Now if both Ollie and Maine stayed healthy, then it’s a different story. But honestly, do you really think both of them are going to pitch 190 innings like in ’07?
So say they both stay healthy. Wouldn’t you rather have Pelf, Ollie, Maine and Pineiro as your #2-5 rather than Nieve/Niese? I mean what if Maine is injured again. It’s Pelf, Ollie, Nieve, Niese? You mean Ollie is your #3?
trs86
1/28/2010-7:21am at 7:21 am (UTC -4)
Maybe the Mets set a price they were willing to pay and held firm to those? I see nothing wrong with that.
trs86
1/28/2010-7:21am at 7:21 am (UTC -4)
Do you honestly think Pineiro is going to pitch 200 innings like last year?
oleosmirf
1/27/2010-11:34pm at 11:34 pm (UTC -4)
not with this rotation are we winning 90 games. unless of course you expect career performances from 3 SP coming off bad seasons…
trs86
1/28/2010-7:22am at 7:22 am (UTC -4)
Doesn’t have to be career performances. Go back and look at 2006′s rotation.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:51pm at 9:51 pm (UTC -4)
Can’t say if they are better than Cards, LA or Rockies, everyone is chasing the Phillies. As for the other teams, they have their own question marks.
stickguy
1/27/2010-9:44pm at 9:44 pm (UTC -4)
well, this at least answers the question about who fills the Tatis role on the bench. The man himself!
so, we have:
cora – MI
blanco – C
GMjr – all 3 OF
Tatis – all 4 IF and corner OF (kinda)
So, looks like they need a guy that can play in the corner OF, and hits lefty and has some power for that occasional HR off the bench.
Seems to be the fit for Carter.
Although as I said above, they should really make 1B a somewhat open competition in ST. Let Murphy beat out Carter for the job, loser can be the bench guy (or to AAA).
cora, tatis, carter, blanco and GMjr, while it may not sound too exciting, has some balance, and is probably one of the better benches in the league.
Now sign Gregg, and the pen should have plenty of options.
don’t ask about SP, but 1 more will come from someplace.
I guess the last move then is to take some of the $$ saved (assuming the Sp coming in isn’t someone like harang with full salary), and just sign Hudson on the cheap, and unload Castillo somehow.
I sure don’t want to see Cora every day if Castillo goes down, and Havens isn’t gonna be ready. Tejada maybe?
screw it. gregg and hudson and 1 SP, cut Castillo, and the payroll is still well under last year, and it is a pretty damned good team. Just avoid catastrophic injuries, get Beltran back, and if the returning SPs pitch about average/normal, they have a very good team.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-9:47pm at 9:47 pm (UTC -4)
How about Johny Gomes? He has power, but that’s all he has.
stickguy
1/27/2010-9:51pm at 9:51 pm (UTC -4)
isn’t he RH? ALl I really know is he hasn’t been very good. For the 25th man, just roll with what they got. Or get a waiver guy on the cheap during the spring.
trs86
1/27/2010-9:52pm at 9:52 pm (UTC -4)
Carter is a perfect fit as he can be sent back down when Beltran returns.
stickguy
1/27/2010-9:59pm at 9:59 pm (UTC -4)
yeah, but he does fill a role (assuming he is performaing). As I note below, ideally GMjr disappears, since he would be really redundant with Pagan on the bench too. Unless by some miracle he is playing well (which I highly doubt).
trs86
1/27/2010-9:59pm at 9:59 pm (UTC -4)
Could be. I would just think they will not want to release anyone.
wannybackstra
1/27/2010-10:35pm at 10:35 pm (UTC -4)
Like Darren O’Day.
trs86
1/27/2010-10:38pm at 10:38 pm (UTC -4)
Was thinking about position players. You think they would release GMJR to keep from sending Carter down? I hope you are right.
wannybackstra
1/27/2010-10:44pm at 10:44 pm (UTC -4)
No.
Darren O’Day was a Rule V who couldn’t be sent down.
But my point was that they’ve managed to bungle the roster before (because they refuse to put injured players on the DL) and will likely do it again.
stickguy
1/27/2010-9:57pm at 9:57 pm (UTC -4)
any, to FU on my post, if they make the couple moves I suggest (that won’t cost much, depnding on the SP), you get:
Reyes
hudson
wright
beltran (just plug pagan in at 5 and slide bay up during april).
bay
murphy
frenchy
catcher
santana/pelfrey/maine/perez/new guy (I want harang)
K rod/japanese guy/gregg/escobar/Pedro F/neive/2nd lefty (misch?)
bench: blanco/tatis/carter/cora/GMjr (dumped when Beltran comes back hopefully).
I know Fongy is having a coronary looking at the rotation, but I actually think the SP will be a strength, especially if the new guy is good. And the lineup is pretty damned strong, and balanced. Frenchy or cora 7th? That is decent length.
The Mets had to take some risk this off season. I guess it was chancing that the SP surgeries fixed the problems, and the guys rebound, instead of spending 10mill on a train wreck like sheets!
trs86
1/27/2010-9:59pm at 9:59 pm (UTC -4)
FU to you too buddy.
stickguy
1/27/2010-10:02pm at 10:02 pm (UTC -4)
Hmm, I should Follow Up by saying, I hope you just forgot the smiley!
trs86
1/27/2010-10:06pm at 10:06 pm (UTC -4)
LOL.
stickguy
1/27/2010-10:01pm at 10:01 pm (UTC -4)
oh yeah, payroll” Hudson and Gregg, at this point, should only go about 8mill combined. So they should (given our working projections) be able to add a salary dump even if the duming team didn’t eat too much. Say harang if the Reds ate 5, and mets covered the other 10? That’s 18 total, and Molina and Piniera were going to be 14 by themselves. so pretty much a wash.
trs86
1/27/2010-10:05pm at 10:05 pm (UTC -4)
Actually Harang’s salary for 2010 is only 12.5.
stickguy
1/27/2010-10:06pm at 10:06 pm (UTC -4)
I was adding in the 2.5ish buyout (unless they plan on exercising his 14.5 or so mill contract for 2011).
trs86
1/27/2010-10:10pm at 10:10 pm (UTC -4)
True but they would not need that until next year’s salary.
trs86
1/27/2010-10:02pm at 10:02 pm (UTC -4)
I think your lineup would be fine and I still think we should get Hudson be damned of Castillo. Of course I also think we should look at Damon and find a spot for him.
As for the rotation I think they will get a risk guy and see what they got. Then in June-July start pressing for that upgrade if needed. I know Omar’s history is not great during the season but he has also not been in the situation he is in now.
stickguy
1/27/2010-10:05pm at 10:05 pm (UTC -4)
No to damon. Especially now. Probably a moot point, since it really looks like he will end up on an AL team as a PT OF and mostly DH. Really he isn’t good enough (factoring in the yankee bandbox effect and lousy D) to try and jam in. All MHO of course.
but yeah, they couldn’t give the money to crap like Benjie or Panara breadhead, so give it to Hudson if he is coming cheap.
The pitching staff will be greatful. Hell, the upgrade in range at 2B might make them all bump up a notch on the 1-5 scale!
trs86
1/27/2010-10:09pm at 10:09 pm (UTC -4)
Still put up an OPS around .800 on the road last year. Also hit for a higher average on the road but for some reason had a lower OBP. His power was much better at home but he still managed only 10 less XBH away than at home with less PA.
stickguy
1/27/2010-10:13pm at 10:13 pm (UTC -4)
I really don’t see a place for him, and I highly doubt he wants to cross town to the NL to be a jack of all trades spare part.
trs86
1/27/2010-10:17pm at 10:17 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, but with no market for him and us needing players it seems like we could find a fit.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-11:00pm at 11:00 pm (UTC -4)
I am starting to get on the Damon bandwagon. He’s a very good offensive guy. He has no place to play defensively, but I’m sure between OF and 1B, he’ll play whole bunch.
He’ll be able to take advantage of short RF fence (like Chase Ugley did many times)
stickguy
1/27/2010-10:19pm at 10:19 pm (UTC -4)
I need to go to bed, so don’t have the time to look up rosters, but the Braves and Marlins (hell, the cards too) are far from perfect.
The Braves lineup is weak, and they still depend on CHipper. And some lousy OFs.
The Marlins have Hanley and a couple of good SPs, then some bad D and a bad pen.
yes, over generalizations, but so is “the mets stink” and “no better than 4th place”.
maybe the problem is, the Mets have more guys needing to have rebound yers? Because on paper, they are as good or better.
And that, pretty much, explains the Mets relative lack of activity. If healthy, maine, Ollie, etc. are better than Piniera, marquis, etc.
DNDJohan aka kistics
1/27/2010-10:55pm at 10:55 pm (UTC -4)
But too many IFs.
IF Reyes, Beltran, Ollie, Maine, Johan, Cora, and Pagan stay healthy. Mets may be better.
But Pelf, Ollie, Maine, Nieve vs. (assuming Jujjens is the ace) Hudson, Hanson, Lowe, Kawakami… Bravos are better and we know pitching wins games (or was it championships?). Look at Cards as well. They have 2 guys finished in top 3 in Cy Young.
Hazmet
1/27/2010-10:25pm at 10:25 pm (UTC -4)
So, I guess in closing for me this evening I’m thinking no signings besides Tatis until the next major ticket sale milestone approaches since that’s what it took to sign Bay. aka – right before the end of 2009. When is that and who will be left by then it’s too late tonight for me to even think of that. Night all.
njstuckintx
1/28/2010-12:01am at 12:01 am (UTC -4)
I have to say, we have a punchers chance. For the stories about how horribly this organization is run, they few times that the Mets have done well, it’s the puncher connecting.
For this year, you have an above average lineup with an Ace, ?, ?, ?, ? for the starting rotation. It could be wonderful, with Pelf righting the ship, Maine and Ollie regaining form and Neise taking and making many strides. It could be a disaster, with bone chips and blisters and Tommy Johns, oh my. But I will put my hope closer to Stickguy than I will DND.
The only Black Cloud to my silver lining is the General. That gives me nightmares of the Murphy project ending in a mushroom cloud.
Mr North Jersey
1/28/2010-12:35am at 12:35 am (UTC -4)
Very descriptive way of putting things. Do you do post cards also?
gategem
1/28/2010-2:08am at 2:08 am (UTC -4)
I for one remain optimistic. The stars will perform at least to their projections and the supporting cast will significantly exceed the level that the world of statistical analysis claims they should.
gategem
1/28/2010-2:30am at 2:30 am (UTC -4)
From MLB.com:
Below is a look at how many players each club has on the 2010 MLB.com Top 50 Prospects list
TEAM COMPARISON
TEX 4, TB 4, KC 4, BOS 3, OAK 2, TOR 2, ATL 2, WAS 2, MIL 2, PHI 2, LAD 2, CIN 2,
SF 2, CLE 2, COL 2, DET 2, FLA 2, CHC 1, MIN 1, ARI 1, NYY 1, SEA 1, HOU 1, PIT 1,
BAL 1, SD 1, NYM 0, LAA 0, STL 0
trs86
1/28/2010-7:24am at 7:24 am (UTC -4)
Got 3 in the top 100 though.
khmustache
1/28/2010-5:52pm at 5:52 pm (UTC -4)
good. grand. wonderful. EVERYBODY ON THE BUS!