Well other than Darryl Strawberry ( while attending last night’s Thurman Munson Charity Gala) stating that he personally didn’t feel that the ” Mets didn’t do enough” this off season,The Mets offices were pretty quiet that’s saying alot after the the fall out that has enveloped them after the whole J.J Putz ” they give physicals don’t they?” debacle. But there was an interesting article by Tim Dierkes on MLBTR.com that reported that Rich Aurillia does not want to retire, and would like to sign a minor league contract with either the Mets or Yankees. Aurillia , 38 had 133 at bats with the San Francisco Giants last season batting .213 with 2 home-runs and 16 R.B.I’s In my opinion I would have to pass. I could see Omar making the move if he didn’t sign Frank Catalano, but even then I feel that Aurillia would be better suited and a pinch hitting specialist that a defensive replacement.
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                                              ” Could the Mets be Aurillia’s Swan Song?”
And on that note …. IT’S TIME FOR SOME INFAMY !!!!!
New York Mets signed free agent Ed Hearn on February 3, 1983. Hearn would be Gary Carters Back up during that magical ’86 season. He would be traded to the Kansas City Royals, for a up and coming pitcher named David Cone ( I wonder how he did as a Met?).
Minnesota Twins signed middle reliever Jeff Innis of the New York Mets as a free agent on February 3, 1994. I remember reading in the Daily News how he used to roller blade to training camp every morning.
St. Louis Cardinals signed Shawon Dunston of the New York Mets as a free agent on February 3, 2000.Shawon was a late season pick up for the Mets, playing both the infield and the outfield for the Mets. His .344 batting average and 16 R.B.I’s helped propel the Mets into the playoffs .
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And don’t forget – There are just 61 days until the Mets open the 2010 season against the Florida Marlins at Citi Field.
34 comments
metsfan4decades
2/3/2010-7:30am at 7:30 am (UTC -4)
Loved Straw in the 80′s with the Mets. Nice to see he turned his life around and he’s once again back with the Mets. I guess that qualifies him to be an armchair GM….
Look, I don’t think there is anyone who will disagree that we needed to add quality starting pitching and that we did not fill that glaring need. Why though is probably anyone’s guess right now.
Did we not get Lackey b/c no matter what we offered, the Mets would have been his last choice? Was it we seriously would have had to overpay either in $$, years or both to lure him here?
Should Omar have done it anyway, if given the chance? I know he was my first choice this off season and it’s probably something we could debate for days.
Same with the lesser quality pitchers available.
Who knows what trade offers were dangled that Omar passed on? We’ll probably never be privy to them all.
Did pitching coaches, talent evaluators, etc. convince Omar what we currently have could be just as good as some who were available FA or in trades back to us? You know, sort of like how the Yankee same convinced Cashman their starting rotation didn’t need Johan two years ago b/c they had Kennedy and Hughes coming up.
I just know I’d be a bit more confident right now had we added some solid, quality, veteran pitching. That fact that we didn’t could go either way. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see on that…..
stickguy
2/3/2010-7:47am at 7:47 am (UTC -4)
what qualifies any of us to be armchair GMs? Other than having an armchair, of course! ANd we can certainly debate something mush less significant than Lackey for days. At least Fongy and TRS can.
And yes, more pitching would have been nice, but it seems clear that the Mets decided that they built this staff, and they were all “fixed” last year (at least the physicially damaged ones), and they want to see how it does.
I can see their point, and it is likely a 1 year shot anyway, so it isn’t that big a deal. If they start flaming out, you will see a parade of replacements, but frankly, even if they had signed someone new, if the retrunees bomb again, it wouldn’t have mattered.
I would stil be happy with a mid-back rotation guy of some reliability, just to give the depth they are missing.
IMO, while I think Neise is going to be good, and soon, I would be much more comfortable with Neive and Neise, both coming off surgery, to be pencilled in for AAA or the BP, serving as the 6th and 7th guys, to start the season. That IMO would be pretty good depth.
metsfan4decades
2/3/2010-8:03am at 8:03 am (UTC -4)
You’ll get no argument from me on most of your points, especially the last paragraph.
njstuckintx
2/3/2010-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
Agreed as well.
trs86
2/3/2010-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
I will not disagree at all that the Mets needed a top of the rotation pitcher. As for depth, I still think they will add a mediocre guy to compete and add depth at the rear.
njstuckintx
2/3/2010-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
I prefer Straw saying it as it is. The people aren’t stupid. The people know what the needs are and what was/wasn’t addressed. No need to start spewing out pro-omar/mets mantras. Actions speak.
metsfan4decades
2/3/2010-8:36am at 8:36 am (UTC -4)
Take a look at this Amazin Avenue pie chart depicting the Mets in the NL East from 2006-2009:
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/2/2/1289135/im-doing-a-little-study-on-the-nl#comments
Interesting. Looking at the chart, this tells me the talent was there. Big question is: Is it still?
darknova306
2/3/2010-8:56am at 8:56 am (UTC -4)
Interesting, though the only day in first place that matters is the final day…
stickguy
2/3/2010-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
yes, that is the only day that counts for the post season.
But, it is relevant to the discussion about whether the Mets have the talent or ptential to hold off the Nats for 4th place in the division.
The last 2 months of 2009 (leading to the lousy record) are really the abberation.
trs86
2/3/2010-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
I agree. At this point we know the Mets are not good finishers. We have talent but can’t finish.
prismo
2/3/2010-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
LOL I like Kevin H’s chart.
DNDJohan aka kistics
2/3/2010-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
me too
stickguy
2/3/2010-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
mostly (with the caveat if they are on the field and not the DL) yes it still is.
And if anything, the pitching (SP) should be on the uprise. I know all about question mark and the mysterians (hmm, 96 tears, could get a post out of that…). But, Omar (jeffy?) built a rotation the way you (intheory) want to do it.
A recognized (and paid like it) ace/stud to lead the group. Then a bunch of young veterans, just hitting their prime years and experience level for when they should be having their prime years. The 5th spot being filled by a combo of old filler guys and the next rookie coming up.
I really feel now that the Mets feel this way, and that’s why there were no big acquisitions. THey want to see if this group can pull it off.
The injuries last year really came at a bad time though for this plan. But, the talent is still there.
trs86
2/3/2010-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
Agreed except for the fact that I think they really wanted Lackey or another top rotation guy but could not get it done.
stickguy
2/3/2010-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
that’s reasonable, but also points out one of my firm beliefs, that (with rare exceptions), teams need to develop their own top of the rotation pitching, or at least trade for it before it gets there (like Garza to TB).
Not that much is ever on the market, so what there is is very expensive.
trs86
2/3/2010-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
Completely agree. However, we have to pay for our transgressions of signing type A guys and poor drafting. Thus while we groom guys who are not ready yet, we will have to pay the price to bring in a #2. It would be nice if that guy had been Pelfrey but right now it’s not. Perhaps the Dbacks model when they were following it would be good. 2 studs imported and youngins to go with them. Speaking of Dbacks, Webb might be our best chance at a top of the rotation guy. As much as I like Arroyo, he might not be any better than what we got.
stickguy
2/3/2010-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
I would be all for bringing in a #2 (and I still hate the slotting/ranking system!). SO just say a top of the rotation stud.
But, who exactly is it they can get? Lackey was a stretch, but worth a shot, although the contract (years more than AAV) was out there, and he seemed to prefer the AL and/or Boston.
Beyond that, not much, unless you were going to seriously gut the farm of all talent for Halladay (who for whatever reason didn’t seem interested) or Lee (a rental, the phils weren’t trading here anyhow).
metsfan4decades
2/3/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Agreed.
trs86
2/3/2010-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
I agree, I think I have even expressed it in a post. To me there are Aces (not many), top of the rotation pitchers, mid-rotation (Average guys) and back of the rotation guys.
You are preaching to the choir on what was out there. Although the knee jerk Omar bashers would say it’s his job to find someone. I slightly agree, mostly because I am not an Omar fan at this point, however I find it difficult to hold a phantom trade against him.
DNDJohan aka kistics
2/3/2010-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
But the pie chart is not really an accurate measure of talents. Mets were in first place most of ’06 and ’07 which takes up most of the orange colored section. I bet you the pie chart will look much different if the period is last 2 years.
Past two years
Phillies 205 days
Marlins 69 days
Mets 52 days
Braves 5 days
Nats 5 days
Does this mean that the Braves have equal talent as the Nats??
stickguy
2/3/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
not sure if it means equal talents, but it at least means there is a God!
Actually, being in 1st place is probably not the best thing to look at (from the standpoint of which teams are competitive, and which aren’t).
it would be interesting to see a variation, such as “days spent in 1st or within XX games (say, 5), after some date (May 1?)”. That should seperate the pretendors from the contendorss
trs86
2/3/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Of course you can take any stat or chart to the extreme, I usually do a good job of it.
However, I think if you took the median there it would still show the Mets at the top. The problem is the Mets had one REALLY bad half of baseball that the Phillies and Braves have not had. That really bad half was without our key players.
Obviously, as I said earlier, the Mets problems has more to do with not finishing than it does talent.
stickguy
2/3/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
that though can be held against the leadership. Certainly the manager (it is his job to get teh most out of the talent), but also somewhat against the GM for not bringing in help when he should have.
trs86
2/3/2010-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
For the bad half I think you may be right. However, the September tanks only 2008 I think you could hold against the GM and then only slightly. 2007 the team was in 1st the entire time, not a real reason to upgrade until too late. Manager maybe. 2008, we remember how there was no bullpen help out there and I don’t think anyone expected Wagner to go down too.
trs86
2/3/2010-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
I think a lot of people, rightfully so, are concerned about injuries. Will these guys come back full strength. To me that is not a major concern. If they come back full strength we will compete for a playoff spot even with our issues. If they do not, there was not enough out there to make us a playoff contender. If Beltran and Reyes are injured, Lackey while he would help does not make us a contender. If Johan is injured, Lackey does not make us a contender. If Krod sucks, Lackey, Molina, nor Pineiro make us a contender. To me the Mets played it right. Try and get Lackey and then wait and see if a real top of the rotation guy can be traded for. No reason to bump a deserving guy out for a mediocre guy. Obviously others will say that since we did not get that #2 Omar failed. I don’t think you can judge things that way without knowing the situation. Hopefully, we get that #2 soon enough and we all get our wish that Jerry and Omar are gone. However, lets hope that the Mets don’t have to tank to get it done.
stickguy
2/3/2010-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
I agree. The only reason IMO to get another guy equivilant to MOP was for depth (IOW the 5th spot).
And for some reason, I am not worried about health (as long as we see Beltran back on or ahead of schedule, so working out in ST).
I am, of course, knocking on wood while assuming the Reyes show was for real, and he holds together.
with the SP, Maine was well on his way to being an upper rotation starter, until the bone spur in the shoulder flared up. Best as I can recall, other then a minor finger issue, that was really his only health problem (so IOW I don’t think he is injury prone). Yeah, the rehab had a set back, but it seems from September that the root cause was resolved, and I expect to see him in ST back to what he was in 2007 (that is, cranking).
Ollie and Johan had relatively minor “tune up” procedures, and both looked fine (hell, Johan was practiclaly giddy about how well he was throwing). Their problems really sank them last year, and whould not be recurring factors this year.
Heck, it seems like 1/2 the league has minor procedures after every season.
SO if anything, it is a positive that Maine, Johan and Ollie all got cut already. Much better than going into ST with known issues they are going to try and play through (ala putz last year).
DNDJohan aka kistics
2/3/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
I think even with the fully healthy roster, the Phillies are the better team. That’s what gets me mad. I’m sure the Mets will not be far behind in terms of standing and will compete for the WC. But I just don’t think that’s good enough. I understand that there were no other talents to sign via FA outside of Lackey.
But clearly there were ways to get the rotation HEALTHIER and better. IF Johan, Ollie, Maine, Nieve, Niese remain ALL healthy, the rotation is good and should be competitive. BUT what are the chances that all will be healthy?
Looking at past 2-3 years, I think Ollie and Johan will be healthy. But the combination of Maine, Nieve and Niese will be out for some period this year. I am 90% sure of that. So what then?? What if Nieve and Maine are both out? Niese will be the #4 starter and Figgy will be #5? That’s not a competitive rotation AT ALL.
Even if Maine alone gets hurt and is out for an extended period. Nieve and Niese will pitch 40% of the games? Do you honestly believe, given what we saw past 2-3 years, that Nieve and Niese will hold down the fort? Maybe I’m just being skeptical, but to me, that’s just not acceptable.
trs86
2/3/2010-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
I agree, but I am not sure there were any FA worth multiple years that could solve that issue. I think that the same pitchers available through trade will still be there if one of those guys gets injured.
One name that we have not heard in a while that MC brought up today is Gee. He impressed last ST and got injured. He very well could make a decent #5. Also remember like it or not, Misch put up 5th starter numbers as well. I am not that concerned about Niese or Nieve and the 5th spot. I think we have depth there. My concern like yours is what happens if Maine or Ollie don’t produce? I would expect at that point the Mets will scramble for a trade. One thing to keep in mind is the Mets seem to always add a reclamation project late in the winter. I expect that to continue. This year it could be a better name. Lowry, Wang, Bedard, etc are out there.
DNDJohan aka kistics
2/3/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
For guys who were on FA market, outside of Lackey, you are right that no one worth giving multi-year contracts. But that’s what the market was this offseason like it or not. So, if Omar and Co were somewhat proactive about this matter, they should have had some plan other than to sit on their hands and blame the bad market. Other teams filled their SP holes with the same pool of talents out there. Why couldn’t the Mets do the same?
With the guys available via trade market, I’m not sure whether they will still be available once the season starts. They maybe available when it comes to the trade deadline period, but I’m just not sure if they’ll be available in May or June. If the Reds are in the race through June/July period, I doubt they will trade Arroyo or Harang. If the Royals are in the race (you never know) I doubt they will be looking to move Meche or Bannister.
stickguy
2/3/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Keeping in mind that predicting sucess based on pre-season rosters is a risky endeavor (just ask SI!!), let’s say you are correct and right now, the Phils are a bit better.
You have to keep in mind though that teams can change quickly. The TB rays from 2 years ago being an obvious extreme!
But, even 2006 (still not that long ago) is a good example. The Mets dominated, and the phils were also rans with a few promising young guys.
And all it takes is a couple of injuries, and maybe a guy tailing off due to age (Ibanez? Rollins?), and a little bad luck, and next year they could be heading downhill fast.
Same really goes for any team that happens to be riding on top of the wave. Waves sometiems crash on your head without warning!
Mr North Jersey
2/3/2010-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
This notion that Lackey could not single handedly make the Mets a contender if the Mets core players went down is one that makes no sense.
Everyone knew the Mets needed a front end guy to go along with a Santana and give the Mets a 1-2 punch. No one ever said the Mets need a guy that single handedly makes them a contender even if Beltran or Reyes are hurt.
It was said by many me included that the 2009 Mets were a good team that despite all their injuries were 2 or possibly 3 good players away from seriously making a run for a title in 2010.
They added Bay and if Minaya went that extra mile and signed a Lackey we would be discussing how anxious we are to have Phillie come in and have Santana, Lackey and Ollie square off against Halladay, Hamels and Happ. Instead we are still asking and wondering who will step up and fill that void behind Santana?
It’s obvious a Lackey doesn’t single handedly make the Mets a contender. Few players can. Lackey was meant to help the Mets get past the hump and win a Title if the team was healthy in 2010.
Did Omar get that #2 type starter? No
Did Omar get that power bat for LF? Yes
Did Omar fail? Well it depends on what criteria you want to judge him by. It is all just a matter of opinion. Whose is right or wrong? Does it even matter?
2010 the Mets will go as far as the core takes them and time will tell if Minaya did right by his team. The trading deadline will be interesting indeed last year a Phillies team coming off a Championship pulled off a trade for Cliff Lee to help the team without that maybe they never get to a World Series. What will Minaya do? I wonder indeed.
GravediggerHebner
2/3/2010-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
My sardonic crystal ball prediction for what trade Omar will make in July:
Dissatisfied with the production from both the 1B and C positions, Omar will trade a minor league pitcher that will in a few years become the next Tom Seaver to the Cincinnati Reds for Ramon Hernandez who plays both positions and his right handed.
There’s your big 2010 Omar trade deadline move. “The bagel shop folks told me Murphy and Thole needed help so I got them that help.” You heard it here first!
fongy2
2/3/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
I think the guy who roller bladed back and forth to camp
was actually Heath Bell.
rustyjr
2/3/2010-4:22pm at 4:22 pm (UTC -4)
i think you are right – but innis was known as a joker